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If you have to make cast iron anything then a cast iron hammer head sounds pretty good. How you create a handle for that, Idk, but it's probably the best option
I've been studying melting & casting in preparation for starting up as a hobby, and I'll echo what others have said: you need an exit vent for your molds. The molten metal is hitting the trapped air and compressing it, which is stopping it from filling the mold. You're also getting a lot of steam explosions and spatter because there's too much moisture present; as BigStackD (another UA-camr you should check out if you want to look into casting) always warns his viewers, ALWAYS preheat your stirrers, skimmers, and molds to avoid this problem.
I've been following bigstackd for a while as well, also interested in starting up a metal melting hoby. One question I still have that bugs me is how to do steel melting at home. Bigstackd always gis his steel to his bud but I'd rather be able to melt it myself. Do you know of any resources that could help get me in the right direction or is this just my wishful dreaming that isn't going to happen?
@@MajKetchup347 One way to go about it is using electricity instead of gas. You can get carbon gouging electrodes for a stick welder; while a propane flame is only barely above the melting point of steel, an electric arc is several thousand degrees hotter and can melt it easily. Keep in mind that the air will be trying to cool your crucible, so insulate it well with firebricks or ceramic wool; if you're having trouble getting the whole thing to melt, try a smaller crucible or a higher power welder.
I was wondering, the molds they made looked quite complex and thought-thru but I couldn't see any exit vents, which is confusing cuz how do you get to the point of knowing how to properly mix sand for a mold and do lost wax without also knowing about venting?
It looked like your casting molds didn’t have any gas spouts. Iron reacts violently with gasses that are in the air. Maybe if you added gas vents, then pumped a heavy, inert gas like argon into the mold it would work better.
@Logan Strong It looks like they were using an oil sand like petrobond which theoretically let's gasses escape pretty easily for aluminum and bronze castings at least. Maybe iron just makes way too much though.
@@jimburton5592 He has unlocked soda ash or limestone and vinegar, though. Carbon dioxide is technically an active gas, but if you're not TIG welding I doubt you'd notice the difference.
@@duckman4928 Calm down, it's not that serious. Plenty of real forging videos out there if you can't stand the sight of some guys having fun and experimenting around.
1.) It's not hot enough, you need to get well above its melting point to ensure it flows into the mold properly 2.) the molds need to be vented in some way, the air inside them needs to go somewhere. The wet sand will hold its shape but it's not porous enough to allow natural venting 3.) the bubbling in the open molds is a result of the mold containing moisture. Even the smallest drop of moisture can result in a steam explosion that sprays molten metal all over and causes bubbles in the surface. Preheat your molds until dry whenever possible.
In sand casting, there are pores between the sand grains that can vent gasses. Depending on various factors that may not be enough, and a vent or riser opposite the feed is needed. Vents reaching almost, but not quite, to the pattern can also help.
also heating the mold before using it can help a lot also. some of the splattering of liquid metal is the rapid temp changing happening. almost like how dry ice will skate around on most surfaces tell it drops the temp enough to stick to it. you want the metal to more or less stick to the mold not skate around on the surface of it.
You should crest vent holes in the mold next time it didn’t want to flow because of trapped air and keep a propane or map gas torch with you so you can preheat the mold the piping and spattering was because of the presence of water it also help to preheat the mold to ensure a good flow and it doesn’t harden to quickly
thank youuuuuuuuuuuuu the sand has to have a small amount of moisture to keep its shape if it’s a closed cast but they alwaysssssss have to have at least one vent at the opposite end of wherever you’re pouring i so hope he sees this
I really wished he wouldn't half ass everything like that and for once prepare a proper mold with the carbon dioxide moulding, at least clean the slag off of you molten iron and then pour into a heated mold. The mold was made of basically beach sand that he shaped by printing a crude sword into it. He then started pouring from the middle into a mold that wasn't even level. I'm just dumbfounded at how many mistakes you can make. Nothing this guy does resembles quality and it's literally the only thing he does. I bet this was his first pour as well and he didn't even test the process to find out if it was any good. He just went with it like "meh good enough". So disappointing.
@@unlink1649 It's so amateurish, this series has been going on for so long now you'd expect them to either have learned by now or done a little bit of research.
@@SuneSensei They don't care about doing it good. They care about putting out a good enough video. The problem is with everything just being "good enough" over and over, it starts to look AWFUL.
With the understanding that the proper steel would require higher melting temperatures... why not try that? Would be more interesting, since I honestly don't know what to expect from a cast steel sword.
Well, the topic of steel casting is really complex. And as far as they dont control it preciselly there could be everything. The type of alloy will be propably the most significant factor as well as cooling time and melting temperature, since the grain structure depend on this aspects. I think that casted steel sword might work if they use both the proper alloy and precise melting/casting/cooling process.
Its not really possible to reach the meltingpoint of mild steel without modern technology (outside of a kilm) and it would react strongly with the air. The end result would be a mostly normal steel sword.
I don't think they really covered exactly what they were using as a raw material here but it looked a lot like they were using rebar. Which is a steel and might explain part of their struggles. They were trying to cast at too low a temperature using an alloy not well suited for casting.
@@herscher1297 dumb question then... i know this probably wouldn't work, but i'd love to know why: what would happen if you set up a mold filled with mild steel pellets or filings, and put that directly in a kiln? or set a crucible with an opening at the bottom above to mold so that the steel poured through as it melted?
@@flamethrowex tbh i dont see any reason why this shouldnt work. You would need a mold able to withstand the heat. Also, if you cast steel you will need to reheat it for tempering and quenching.
hey Andy. i did my capstone on ancient Chinese metallurgy and from my research, they got the metal hot enough to melt like in nate's modern foundry, but they next poured it into a refractory basin and added silt to the molten iron. this removed the impurities and when it hardened, it was pretty much "wrought iron" without the bloom. another option you could try is loading a crucible with alternating layers of wrought iron and cast iron, then heating it in a foundry for several hours as hot as you can. this will cause the two alloys to combine into one, making medium to high carbon steel. i hope this helps
they were able to decarburize cast iron by adding silt? i would think you'd need to pour it out into thin stock or something and just let it naturally decarburize. how does the silt work to get rid of carbon?
@@bilbo_gamers6417 the information i wrote out is how the ancient chinese metallurgists described their process. given their understanding at the time, adding silt from the local river acted like adding borax to molten metal. it coagulates the dissolved gasses and slag out of the molten iron. then they would stir the iron with a freshly cut branch (specifically willow) and the glass would stick to the pole and get pulled out. afterwards, they claimed the iron was a more malleable form of iron instead of brittle cast iron. so i believe they unknowingly decarborized the iron while stirring it. all the while also taking out the slag to make the finished product more homogeneous. i hope that explains it a bit better :)
The issue is mostly that they used rebar as the material to cast. Rebar is a mixed steel that is made from scraps and has TONS of impurities. It's only use is to reinforce concrete. A cleaner steel with a flux introduced would not only have melted at a lower temperature, but also poured more smoothly and evenly.
So there was one of puddling furnaces not far from where is was raise. Actually it was a sister furnace to the cast iron furnace just a couple of mile away. The purpose of the puddling furnace was to lower the carbon content of the iron pigs so that they could be forgeable. Both furnaces were colonial American era (late 18th century). The cast iron furnace still exists, but the puddling furnace is long since forgotten. The Bessemer furnace pretty much made the puddling furnaces obsolete.
Doesn't matter. Casting iron or steel gives you a lousy result for strength. It hasn't been work hardened. When you move the metal (like hitting it with a hammer) the structure changes into a much harder one. It's why you can break copper wire by bending it back and forth a bunch of times. The copper gets harder and more brittle at the bend point until it finally breaks. Iron does the same thing, and steel being iron with a little bit of carbon in it..... it does too. At best he did a little bit of heat treating on that blade, and even then not much heat treating. The blade wasn't at the right temperature for it and he didn't immerse it in the water. Basically he just had a ground iron bar, and probably not even cast iron. Not enough carbon. (Pouring or casting the iron isn't what determines 'cast iron.' It's the carbon content. Mild steel or wrought iron doesn't have enough carbon in it to heat treat, cast iron has too much carbon in it to be useful for anything that's going to be under stress. Both can be cast if you have a hot enough furnace.)
You may want to use two-piece molds and preheat them before pouring. Also, the Primitive Technology channel has a couple videos about making primitive cement from wood ash. Mixing that cement with silicate sand might get you a concrete mix heat resistant enough to keep your furnace from melting, much like the plaster and sand mixes used by TKOR, Nighthawknlight, and others.
@@corwinweber693 Yes, a bit of a risk and probably worth testing a small piece under intense heat before building a whole furnace out of the stuff, but considering that Nate's furnace didn't melt when lined with a similar mixture and was still able to melt iron, I think there's a good possibility that a primitive version would perform well.
I would most likely advise against that since most cements tend to hold some water in them after curing solid, which is why you avoid modern regular cement in most high temperature applications since it'll convert to steam and blow the cement apart (even firepits). The primitive ash version *might* me ok but without a good deal of research making sure, I wouldn't risk it.
@@tristantheafflicted You'll really need to look at The King of Random or NightHawkNLight to see what I'm talking about. Most of their soup can, oil drum, and bucket forges (and even their foundries) are lined with a cement made of plaster of paris and sand. These builds and demonstrations are documented for your viewing pleasure.
@@beowulfshaeffer8444 Andy could take another lesson from Primitive Technology, make a blower for the furnace and one of those ceramic redirection things, whatever they're called.
There was a continuous reference to cast iron, but it looked like the metal stock being fed in was rebar. This makes it cast steel, dirty cast steel, but still steel. Being steel it will have much better capability to be cast, then forged and heat treated to a useable blade. The movies all show open casting, but not further working. We could assume they forged after the pour. Worth trying again, but next time with a furnace that can at least get good heat into a reasonable amount of steel.
Oddly enough in the tv scenes I've seen after they cast it and let it cool they then heat it again and let it cool then heat it again and hammer it on an anvil then dip it in water.
I found it pretty interesting that the cast iron sword managed to get in a few whacks into the wood. Another thing to consider when it comes to casting metal such as bronze or cast iron is a process called work hardening. Cast metals are generally fairly pliable one cooled, but after the process of work hardening which is basically repeatedly hammer them to form, the metal get consolidated and becomes much stronger. You actually see a similar process in movies where they cast the iron swords into their preform and then go through the arduous process of hammering them flat and refine the shape as well as heat treating and tempering. Maybe the next time you try your hand at casting another iron, you could apply some blade smithing techniques to see if you get better results.
Im pretty shure you cant workharden cast iron (so the stuff with 2+% carbon content) in any practical way. Cementit (Fe3C), the stuff that forms in abundance due to the high carbon content, is super brittle, basicly a ceramic. The metal would form cracks before any meaningfull amount of dislocations has formed. Dislocations are what hardens the steel (not consolidation, this is a commen misconception) and are induced by deforming metal. But you are right. Casting pure iron (so no carbon) or steel would lead to better results, with the former being workhardenable and the later possibly hardenable the traditional way. But they are much harder to cast since their meltingpoint is much higher...
Awesome video, I'm going to have this video on tap for any future "BuT I kNoW tHeY dEfInItElY dId CaSt IrOn SwOrDs." conversation that I have :D A minor correction: Cast iron =/= iron that was cast. Cast iron is a specific material, iron that was cast can be any kind of iron that you melted and poured into a mold. The act of casting doesn't necessarily result in a higher carbon content. It can, and for your primitive furnace attempt probably would have, but that would have been a function of the heating with charcoal, not the melting itself. The reason you don't want to cast a sword is because of the poor grain structure that results from the process. You also wouldn't want to forge a sword from the material cast iron either though, because of the high carbon content which you mentioned in the video. The end result of both would likely be the same, a brittle sword, but the mechanisms by which they became brittle would be different.
I don't think any of the movies are using "cast iron" they're using iron/steel that's cast. Modern steel mills use molten steel cast all the time. Plus all the films show them forging the swords next, they don't go from mold to battle immediately.
@@NathanS__ iron that is poured into a mold is by definition cast iron and not something you want to be hitting on an anvil. Iron ingots that blacksmiths used were not cast for a region.
@neer muse the ingots which blacksmiths would have used back in the Middle Ages and before would not have been cast for a number of reasons. The first and largest reason is that casting metal is a very difficult process and is much harder to do accurately. The quality in casts, especially in ferrous metals, can vary wildly from one part of the cast to the other. There is also a problem with voids when it comes to casting, a void in the middle of an ingot would make it near useless. The material which blacksmiths used (in general blacksmiths purchased their material from merchants since they didn't have the facilities to make it it themselves) would come in the form of bars of stock which were made in large smelting facilities by the way of working and consolidating masses of ore into a cohesive chunk in a similar method by which one would process bloomery.
The melting dirt in your primitive furnace is causing the temperature to hold through the phase change (similar to boiling water in a rice pot). Finding a higher temperature clay mixture may be a critical next step.
Forbidden episodes, "How to make babies." "How to make cyanide gas." "How to cook your neighbors dog." "How to make yellow cake out of uranium." "How to build a trap for neighborhood pets."
you HAVE to watch the australian film "the navigator" from the 80s. medieval men searching for help with the plague travel through time to present day, to CAST A CROSS. VERY cool portrayal of open face casting
I'm not sure what route you're going to take for steelmaking, whether you're going to go with refining iron blooms to steel (via secondary furnaces and/or selection of your pieces by carbon content and then pattern welding etc) or if you're going to jump straight to crucible steel. However you could consider the less commonly known methods of decarburizing cast iron into steel which pre-date the bessemer process, which are the puddling furnace and it's more primitive predecessor the finery furnace (which is essentially just a hole in the ground). Both of these basically work by stirring cast iron so that oxygen can get into it to burn away excess carbon, leaving steel or iron after. These methods are not seen much in pop-culture, since finery furnaces were mainly used in asia (and in fact there isn't much evidence of bloom steel ever being used in China), and didn't make their way over to europe until at least the 13th century. As a result I haven't seen many videos of these processes online so it could be cool to have one of the only videos on the process, especially since all our modern processes are based on these (which is particularly good for the whole "making your way to modern technolgies" theme)
I'd love to see the results of forging the cast iron sword. It should shed a lot of carbon during the forging process. Personally I always considered the open faced molds to be for sword BLANKS, so cast then forged
I really appreciate the effort, but I was shouting at the screen when I saw y'all trying to pour cast iron into unvented molds. With the cobb mold, I would have burned off the 3D print (lost PLA method) and poured the iron while the mold was still hot. Since you already have to model it up in CAD, oversize your print by about 1% to account for shrinkage as the molten cast iron cools down. How's the new shop build going?
Question becomes how hard would it be to get rid of some of that extra carbon thru a secondary process and turn this material into useful steel ? In such a context casting it initially make sense.
Ilya from baltimore knives and swords (back when he was still working for man at arms) made crucible steel from cast iron and some iron to make quite an awesome viking sword. I'd love to see andy take a shot at it, at least making the crucible steel part..
A sword wouldn't be terrible to get the carbon out of, since it's got such a thing cross section and high surface area. Carbon will naturally diffuse out of iron at a high enough temperature, similar to case hardening in reverse. Early blister steel was made in this way, keeping cast iron ingots in a carbon deficient atmosphere at a high heat for hours or days. It's generally more efficient to start with a wrought iron and add carbon than to start with cast and take it out, but it's definitely doable
@@microwave221 I thought the scale is decarburization. So it's possible to decarb steel without it disintegrate into pieces? Wouldn't it be only surface decarb?
@@Herr_Scheissemann I've been under the impression that scale is an oxide, but I've never really looked into it. Metal does oxidize faster at the relevant temperatures regardless, so the sword would likely fall apart by the time it lost enough carbon to be steel unless the atmosphere was controlled to some extent. Carbon will entirely diffuse into or out of the entire bit of metal given enough time, Clickspring does a great demonstration of this in his video on case hardening. It does start at the surface, but will gradually work it's way down to the core
An interesting related line of research may be a wind-fanned forge. Seems there are locations in Europe that used either coastal ledges or bluffs or slopes on the side of a valley that take advantage of natural wind conditions to fan the firing of the furnaces. There would be scoop-like structures built that would channel the prevailing wind that hits a rock face into one of the lower chambers where the firing was done. It may be one of the possible ways they got stuff like crucible steel, as it would take much less human effort to sustain higher temperatures. Not sure how you'd recreate that, since having an effective setup seemed to be highly location dependent with a consistent and somewhat sustained dry wind. As far as casting a more steel-like iron... Might be some hybrid processes? An initial casting and then hammering out while red hot. (Some aspects of forging, but perhaps not as intensive? It would help with voids/cracking, but less actual forming of the material.) The main thing to make something like that strong would be the tempering/annealing process.
As a Smith, both in name and profession _(if only my mother had known),_ can I just say that it IS possible to cast a steel sword that is really quite nice, functional, and of decent quality? Not _good_ quality, but decent. It is by no means the most ideal. You need a decent carbon steel, not overly high content - say 1095 or similar _(do not use high nickel stainless - yes there are reasons),_ nickel, and a few other ingredients. Think of this as scrap steel reclamation as is done in a steel foundry to make stainless stock... same process. This is not EASY, especially if you lack the proper kilns that can reach the required temperatures, and a waste of time and material. Once cast, just as flat stock is cast in a foundry, and you add your profile by hand and hammer - not grinding as has become such a common short cut in blade smithing. This working of the steel will be correcting the grain structure, especially along the cutting edge, such that when you quench the blade the spine will still be relatively soft - the blade hardened. Precisely as you'd like. _Disclaimer: Simply because you CAN do this, it is workable, and it will make a fully functional blade of semi-decent quality - this is much HARDER than simply forging the blade. You will also burn a bit of your steel, and the rest. MUCH harder. In summation: harder to do by an order of magnitude, wasteful, and you end up with a worse blade than even a lazily forged blade. Stick to smelting steel back into stock, and forging like normal._ _PS that'd be one ugly blade profile for any kind of iron._
Ok, but what you're describing here..... you are actually talking about a forged blade. It's just casting into the rough shape first so that you don't have to go from a thick rectangular billet to a blade. You're still work hardening the steel, at least the edges anyway.
amazing to see lost pla casting with cob!!! i wanted to do research about something like this, but it's mostly impractical to try and reinvent the wheel of ceramic shell casting, so there isn't much readily available info on it. you guys did great on this. casting iron in a homemade cupola is no mean feat!!! i think the only other cool thing you could consider is casting thin plate, heating it up, and allowing it to decarburize, as a source of cheap decent-quality wrought iron for tools and stuff. if you made it really thin and heated up below burning temperature, all the carbon and phosphorus and sulfur would burn off, and then folding it a few times would squeeze out most of the silicon impurities. if you add this essentially pure iron to a crucible with some pig iron in a controlled way, and allowed it to dissolve together in a cupola, you could make really nice modern quality steel. or potentially even make a rod-shaped crucible to make your own high quality steel that was cast round stock, with no forging needed (though this would be more difficult).
My mom used to make jewelry with cast gold and silver. The molds were always heated in the kiln to a temperature close to the mountain metal. This kept the metal flowing into the most delicate nooks and crannies of the mold. The mold was made with wax. Hope this helps
I believe the fictional depictions generally cast then forge the casting. Also you should preheat/burn out your molds to drive out the moisture and reduce mold disintegration before casting.
I feel like a cast iron spearhead would would really well. Since the stabbing would be a compression force vs the force of slashing with a sword that made it snap
as long as they dont pry with it. if the spear head is too long the flexing force of impact and pulling it out might snap it. but i do agree with you on this point about a cast iron spear head
I suggest making your own bricks at this point. You've gotten far enough with technology to actually do it and the bricks will be able to sustain a higher temperature for the forge.
@@kiandoinart I'm pretty sure it's the collab partner who built it / builds it and uses it regularly, he said himself it started small and just... grew over time lol
I always love these forging and smelting videos. Baffles me to think how HARD this was in the past. No wonder it took 2 million years (counting non-homo sapiens) to go from stone to steel.
i hate how half assed this is, instead of using what he learned from casting bronze, he acts as if he never casted anything before... not that would help but still using horse dung was probably the worse offender: the plant matter burns and produces smoke and gas which stops the metal from flowing because it occupies the space instead. Add that to the fact that none of the molds have vents in them, its no surprise they all failed...
It's cool to see these guys try this even though other UA-camrs have said you can not cast an iron sword and they even said on the start that it will be brittle!
For all those that say what they could have done wrong and to try differently, it isn't about how you pour cast iron, is the cast iron itself the problem. It is too brittle, for blades you need a steel that is hard enough to retain an edge but flexible enough to absorb hits. Cast iron is just very hard and not flexible enough, is like glass. There is a reason why blades for centuries have been forged. The pouring thing is just an idiot thing for the movies since it looks "cool" (even if i think a blacksmith smashing hot steel looks cooler). I'm a little mad about this thing cause since i make knives a lot of people asked me if i pour molten steel to make knives... and thats only hollywood's fault if people don't know how bladesmithing works
The thing that most fantasy shows don't include is the amount of enchantment that goes into legendary and mythic weapons. Enchanted materials, enchanted fire, enchantments on the tools, the shop, the smith, and prayers to many gods.
Guys please do master the metals and metal-working part of civilisation. It will come in so handy for future projects which will require multiple iron or steel items (small and big). Perfecting the sand and other materials mixture or any other casting material is also a must - if the casting material you have is very good then you'll do much less work later. Moreover, making items such as armour plates, tools or items for a possible steam-powered machine does require tons of work with metals. Making a furnace that is up to the job is also very important - using bricks instead of clay and grass is going to make a huge difference. Using some basic concrete mixture to make sure the bricks are keeping the heat in would be neat. A big, well-constructed and sturdy furnace is going to beat the furnace used in this video any time of the day. You'll probably be able to melt iron in less than 10mins if you also construct a couple bellows as extra oxygen makes a real huge difference (you'll probably be able to melt other metals fine, too)! The bellows are gonna last you for a really long time, unless the build quality is low, if the construction quality is good and it's overall very well-designed then it will be good for years, with some minor repairs here and there and when you re-construct it, pieces of the old bellows can probably be used. Just a comment from someone that had been following you for a real long time now, since the first few episodes of the sandwich. Do not take this in the wrong way or in a negative way, it's just some constructive criticism as I've noticed that you guys have issues when it comes to smelting/metalworking and metal related things.
K, I wanna help, and I'd like to see you revisit this "cast iron" sword, but this is going to sound very critical and I don't mean it that way so please forgive me on this. No.1: It's more likely closer to cast steel, not cast iron (Cuz semantics, and almost incorrect semantics at that lol;check out the differences of carbon content in cast iron vs cast steel. It's very counterintuitive lol). No.2 Cast steel swords were always hammer forged afterwards (and it was actually shown in those movies referenced) to increase tensile and compressive strength. No.3: they were typically cast in open wood flasks that were carbonized (ie:burned/ charred) to add a protection layer against the high heat. I don't know as though sand was used for that type of casting, icbw. No.4: there were no risers nor vents in your closed flasks which is probably one of the reasons you had trouble pouring those. In addition to heat. No.5: the sand/clay flasks could have been pre-heated to help with flow and premature cooling. No.6: insulation insulation insulation. This is likely the main reason you couldn't reach temps appropriate for your pour in the traditional clay kiln/foundry. Revisit this and I'm sure you'll have better success. Great vids, love them; and glad to see you bouncing back after the fire loss. Good luck!
You need to preheat your molds. They should be at around 1100 F when you pull the metal out for pouring. This is especially important for a geometry like a frying pan in the way you're casting it because the metal has to flow over a lot of surface area to fill a small volume, giving the mold plenty of time to freeze the metal in its tracks and stop the pour.
If this has not been brought up already, In defense of the Lord of the Rings sword casting scene at the beginning, the weapons and warfare book explains that the resultant swords are meant to be mass produced for Saruman's Uruk-Kai. There was a hook at the end, meant to help dismount riders from horses, which was helpful against rohan who focused on mounted troops. Only one side was sharped, making them more like cleavers, and made them quick to produce. The swords were meant to fulfill what was needed and no more. They were cheap quickly made swords, again described in the weapons and warfare book as being basically raw metal ingots with handles.
Fair warning with your plans for a steam engine, it took a lot of effort to get metallurgy to the point where the boilers could withstand the pressure enough to not explode.
Ive been a og fan and i forgot the name of your channel because my phone broke like 5 months ago and i got a new one and thw whole of last week ive been trying to find your channel until i searched up how to everything youtube thaught that was close enough and brought me to your channel thank god ❤✨
Fun fact: historical swords used to break all the time due to poor edge alignment. Even modern reproduction swords made for HEMA break occasionally, which means that either we got stronger or don't understand sword fighting very well... There's no reason you couldn't still quench and temper your blade, which would make much difference. You could also finish it easier with more traditional techniques after tempering. But even then you'd have a sword that's made from an inherently brittle material. Maybe if you reheated it in a coke forge before quenching, but idk. Bronze is inherently softer, but did usually get work hardened by hammering the bevels. That's a different technique than grinding but does the same job, but also has other benefits that also kinda apply to other metals, in a way that the material gets more consolidated near the business end.
Yes, a whistle vent in casting is essential. Green sand is 6 parts sand and one part clay with just enough water to make a fist ball. Water in molten metal will explode, dry your tools. This should be stressed for safety. A caste sword is the beginning process. next it needs to be heated and hammered to compress the steel into a uniform structure, forged, tempered etc.
I can point out some points about why the pan didn't work, First point I didn't see any holes for air to escape in the mold, second point, The metal has cooled down too quickly, perhaps heating to a higher temperature will make it liquid longer.
The Metal bars we used are industrialized casting, and that is how it's made. melting and mixing the cast iron and making it a bar, so it can be shaped and forged into a sword. Before the industrial revolution era, they were casting all forms of metal to make it into something.
They appeared to not be putting vent holes in the mould. So the air can be displaced and allow hot melt metal to completely fill the cavity of the mould.
If this technique was used for war in medieval times, you'd make spearheads and arrows with them. Flexibility is required in order for weapons to maintain their form so to speak, otherwise the weapon would need to be super heavy in order to remain durable.
You can improvise an electric arc furnace with stick welding equipment, graphite electrodes and an inert cover gas inside and old propane tank that has been cut in half. The top being the lid and the bottom having a conductive plate/bucket suitable for holding molten material. I should mention this should be well sealed with as little oxygen as possible. It may also help to install windows using welding helmet lenses.
I once worked for a company that produced cast iron heaters. When I said cast iron couldn't be strong they gave me a huge hammer and an old heater element and told me to whack a piece off. After frantically hitting it for 5 minutes, I gave in.
you should really make a bellows. it would allow you to finally forge your own stuff without relying on modern technology or other people. there are some really good designs from back in the day that are practically automatic.
It absolutely can be cast using the Oliver method. Rods in the sand allow the steel to be tempered. This method was developed to produce cast it in plow sheers that needed to be both hard and strong.
It’s weird you can absolutely forge a bronze sword . Now if you can make good heat you can cast iron without changing the mix too make it brittle it would just need too up the heat . They pour steel now all the time too drop forge .
Came here to ask this. It may have helped I think the wholes left in the casting would always be the failure point. I would also love to see other casting medium besides sand to be tested and make sure it is preheated.
@@robertshort9487 it depends on the armor and stick a bo staff can do alot of dammage compared to something that continously breaks on contact with another weapon just look at the vid infront of you the grain structure is random adding weakness vs forging where it's stretched along the sword so for the sword shaped billets they would need to fold and restretch it which would work like a normal sword and that case might aswell start with a bar it's why the cast iron sword broke and the forged one didn't
Sorry that I'm overtly late to the party, but I have to point out that you doomed yourself from the start with this cast-Iron sword.... Using the opening of the original 'Conan the Barbarian' as a guide, they used the casting to get the rough shape of the sword's billet & were not going for finished product yet - as you did. First, it's assumed it was cast-iron alloy mix (may not have been true) & the color for the temperature seemed lower than that shown in the movie (both affect final product). Then in the movie, they also refined the edge/form of the sword through 'traditional' heating/hammering techniques (including a minor concave of a blood-grove). This makes the blade leach/loose carbon through each cycling of heating (making it more like steel) & might strengthen the structure where the pockets had formed. As such, this would then make the cast-sword of Conan's father more on par with a crucible steel blades like the Ulfberht & Wootz swords. Otherwise, it was a good attempt, the other casting fault you have been told of and I will not repeat.
so it's not much good coming against other metals, but do you think it could be a useful material for other cutting tools? like, in a pinch, would you rely on a knife made from it?
Question, in all the movies you mention, after casting, they reheat and forge several times over, do you think this process could be part of the difference between a good sward and your sward?
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You need 2 openings and vent holes in a sand mold otherwise air is trapped.
After the steam engine you should move to a paddle steamer, combustion engine and stuff like that
Melt a cast iron engine crankshaft. That iron takes massive twisting, compression, and tension forces without breaking.
If you have to make cast iron anything then a cast iron hammer head sounds pretty good. How you create a handle for that, Idk, but it's probably the best option
for a cast sword, it would be better to use a gladius style
I've been studying melting & casting in preparation for starting up as a hobby, and I'll echo what others have said: you need an exit vent for your molds. The molten metal is hitting the trapped air and compressing it, which is stopping it from filling the mold. You're also getting a lot of steam explosions and spatter because there's too much moisture present; as BigStackD (another UA-camr you should check out if you want to look into casting) always warns his viewers, ALWAYS preheat your stirrers, skimmers, and molds to avoid this problem.
I've been following bigstackd for a while as well, also interested in starting up a metal melting hoby.
One question I still have that bugs me is how to do steel melting at home. Bigstackd always gis his steel to his bud but I'd rather be able to melt it myself. Do you know of any resources that could help get me in the right direction or is this just my wishful dreaming that isn't going to happen?
@@MajKetchup347
Try a ribbon burner or two in a mini metal foundry.
I wanna say Old Hickory Forge has a video on a ribbon burner build.
@@MajKetchup347 One way to go about it is using electricity instead of gas. You can get carbon gouging electrodes for a stick welder; while a propane flame is only barely above the melting point of steel, an electric arc is several thousand degrees hotter and can melt it easily. Keep in mind that the air will be trying to cool your crucible, so insulate it well with firebricks or ceramic wool; if you're having trouble getting the whole thing to melt, try a smaller crucible or a higher power welder.
I was wondering, the molds they made looked quite complex and thought-thru but I couldn't see any exit vents, which is confusing cuz how do you get to the point of knowing how to properly mix sand for a mold and do lost wax without also knowing about venting?
I thought you then broke the caste then heated the iron and beat it on the anvil.
It looked like your casting molds didn’t have any gas spouts. Iron reacts violently with gasses that are in the air. Maybe if you added gas vents, then pumped a heavy, inert gas like argon into the mold it would work better.
At the very least, they needed a spot for all the displaced air to go. It doesn't bubble up through molten metal as well as it does other liquids.
@Logan Strong
It looks like they were using an oil sand like petrobond which theoretically let's gasses escape pretty easily for aluminum and bronze castings at least. Maybe iron just makes way too much though.
@@loganstrong5426 Yeah they needed something as simple as a vent if nothing else.
He hasn't unlocked the noble gasses yet
@@jimburton5592 He has unlocked soda ash or limestone and vinegar, though. Carbon dioxide is technically an active gas, but if you're not TIG welding I doubt you'd notice the difference.
14:00 blade smiths don’t make mistakes; they just make shorter swords.
Why is your sword only 3 inches long
Because I wanted it to be shut up
You can´t call that sword. Swords has blades, this has not blades, this is insult to all swords.
@@duckman4928 Calm down, it's not that serious. Plenty of real forging videos out there if you can't stand the sight of some guys having fun and experimenting around.
1.) It's not hot enough, you need to get well above its melting point to ensure it flows into the mold properly
2.) the molds need to be vented in some way, the air inside them needs to go somewhere. The wet sand will hold its shape but it's not porous enough to allow natural venting
3.) the bubbling in the open molds is a result of the mold containing moisture. Even the smallest drop of moisture can result in a steam explosion that sprays molten metal all over and causes bubbles in the surface. Preheat your molds until dry whenever possible.
would tempering a cast iron sword reduce its brittleness
@@noirekuroraigami2270 no, it has too much carbon
When your using the sand mould system you need to have a exit for the air to leave from
ya idk why nate didnt put the vent tube in
In sand casting, there are pores between the sand grains that can vent gasses. Depending on various factors that may not be enough, and a vent or riser opposite the feed is needed. Vents reaching almost, but not quite, to the pattern can also help.
@@hanelyp1 Ok but an exhaust pipe is always easier to get the air out quickly
also heating the mold before using it can help a lot also. some of the splattering of liquid metal is the rapid temp changing happening. almost like how dry ice will skate around on most surfaces tell it drops the temp enough to stick to it. you want the metal to more or less stick to the mold not skate around on the surface of it.
You should crest vent holes in the mold next time it didn’t want to flow because of trapped air and keep a propane or map gas torch with you so you can preheat the mold the piping and spattering was because of the presence of water it also help to preheat the mold to ensure a good flow and it doesn’t harden to quickly
thank youuuuuuuuuuuuu the sand has to have a small amount of moisture to keep its shape if it’s a closed cast but they alwaysssssss have to have at least one vent at the opposite end of wherever you’re pouring i so hope he sees this
I really wished he wouldn't half ass everything like that and for once prepare a proper mold with the carbon dioxide moulding, at least clean the slag off of you molten iron and then pour into a heated mold. The mold was made of basically beach sand that he shaped by printing a crude sword into it. He then started pouring from the middle into a mold that wasn't even level. I'm just dumbfounded at how many mistakes you can make. Nothing this guy does resembles quality and it's literally the only thing he does. I bet this was his first pour as well and he didn't even test the process to find out if it was any good. He just went with it like "meh good enough". So disappointing.
@@unlink1649 It's so amateurish, this series has been going on for so long now you'd expect them to either have learned by now or done a little bit of research.
@@SuneSensei They don't care about doing it good. They care about putting out a good enough video. The problem is with everything just being "good enough" over and over, it starts to look AWFUL.
I have the feeling that cast iron would be good for mass producing arrow heads.
Ohh, ohhh, yeah I can see that :o
The Chinese actually did that
@@elijahjamesperez8936 they still do lol
Or spearheads. It should work really well as a material for making a purely thrusting point
@@elijahjamesperez8936 mass production for the win
With the understanding that the proper steel would require higher melting temperatures... why not try that? Would be more interesting, since I honestly don't know what to expect from a cast steel sword.
Well, the topic of steel casting is really complex. And as far as they dont control it preciselly there could be everything. The type of alloy will be propably the most significant factor as well as cooling time and melting temperature, since the grain structure depend on this aspects. I think that casted steel sword might work if they use both the proper alloy and precise melting/casting/cooling process.
Its not really possible to reach the meltingpoint of mild steel without modern technology (outside of a kilm) and it would react strongly with the air. The end result would be a mostly normal steel sword.
I don't think they really covered exactly what they were using as a raw material here but it looked a lot like they were using rebar. Which is a steel and might explain part of their struggles. They were trying to cast at too low a temperature using an alloy not well suited for casting.
@@herscher1297 dumb question then... i know this probably wouldn't work, but i'd love to know why: what would happen if you set up a mold filled with mild steel pellets or filings, and put that directly in a kiln? or set a crucible with an opening at the bottom above to mold so that the steel poured through as it melted?
@@flamethrowex tbh i dont see any reason why this shouldnt work. You would need a mold able to withstand the heat. Also, if you cast steel you will need to reheat it for tempering and quenching.
Man I’m so glad you’re with Nate from his channel and some of the king of random guy that I love to see
hey Andy. i did my capstone on ancient Chinese metallurgy and from my research, they got the metal hot enough to melt like in nate's modern foundry, but they next poured it into a refractory basin and added silt to the molten iron. this removed the impurities and when it hardened, it was pretty much "wrought iron" without the bloom. another option you could try is loading a crucible with alternating layers of wrought iron and cast iron, then heating it in a foundry for several hours as hot as you can. this will cause the two alloys to combine into one, making medium to high carbon steel. i hope this helps
they were able to decarburize cast iron by adding silt? i would think you'd need to pour it out into thin stock or something and just let it naturally decarburize. how does the silt work to get rid of carbon?
@@bilbo_gamers6417 the information i wrote out is how the ancient chinese metallurgists described their process. given their understanding at the time, adding silt from the local river acted like adding borax to molten metal. it coagulates the dissolved gasses and slag out of the molten iron. then they would stir the iron with a freshly cut branch (specifically willow) and the glass would stick to the pole and get pulled out. afterwards, they claimed the iron was a more malleable form of iron instead of brittle cast iron. so i believe they unknowingly decarborized the iron while stirring it. all the while also taking out the slag to make the finished product more homogeneous.
i hope that explains it a bit better :)
@@bilbo_gamers6417 Also curious how it decarburizes so leaving a comment incase of answer :P
Both Good And Basic and NFTI!? This is amazing! Been waiting for some collabs with Nate, but bringing everyone into one video is awesome!!
The issue is mostly that they used rebar as the material to cast. Rebar is a mixed steel that is made from scraps and has TONS of impurities. It's only use is to reinforce concrete.
A cleaner steel with a flux introduced would not only have melted at a lower temperature, but also poured more smoothly and evenly.
Have you heard of a puddling furnace? They used to be the predominant method of the manufacturing of steel before the bessemer process
i did my captone in college on ancient chinese metallurgy, and i came across their early forms of the pudding furnace. fascinating stuff
In ancient times, the Chinese were the first to learn to smelt pudding. The first flavor was rice.
Or even the more primitive version, the finery furnace.
So there was one of puddling furnaces not far from where is was raise.
Actually it was a sister furnace to the cast iron furnace just a couple of mile away. The purpose of the puddling furnace was to lower the carbon content of the iron pigs so that they could be forgeable.
Both furnaces were colonial American era (late 18th century).
The cast iron furnace still exists, but the puddling furnace is long since forgotten. The Bessemer furnace pretty much made the puddling furnaces obsolete.
Pretty sure those film examples all state that they're steel not iron, but even so - great video!
Doesn't matter. Casting iron or steel gives you a lousy result for strength. It hasn't been work hardened. When you move the metal (like hitting it with a hammer) the structure changes into a much harder one. It's why you can break copper wire by bending it back and forth a bunch of times. The copper gets harder and more brittle at the bend point until it finally breaks. Iron does the same thing, and steel being iron with a little bit of carbon in it..... it does too.
At best he did a little bit of heat treating on that blade, and even then not much heat treating. The blade wasn't at the right temperature for it and he didn't immerse it in the water. Basically he just had a ground iron bar, and probably not even cast iron. Not enough carbon. (Pouring or casting the iron isn't what determines 'cast iron.' It's the carbon content. Mild steel or wrought iron doesn't have enough carbon in it to heat treat, cast iron has too much carbon in it to be useful for anything that's going to be under stress. Both can be cast if you have a hot enough furnace.)
Steel is made from iron.
You may want to use two-piece molds and preheat them before pouring.
Also, the Primitive Technology channel has a couple videos about making primitive cement from wood ash. Mixing that cement with silicate sand might get you a concrete mix heat resistant enough to keep your furnace from melting, much like the plaster and sand mixes used by TKOR, Nighthawknlight, and others.
It's a nice idea, and it MIGHT work, but..... I don't know. I'm not sure whether it could handle that kind of heat or not. Maybe?
@@corwinweber693 Yes, a bit of a risk and probably worth testing a small piece under intense heat before building a whole furnace out of the stuff, but considering that Nate's furnace didn't melt when lined with a similar mixture and was still able to melt iron, I think there's a good possibility that a primitive version would perform well.
I would most likely advise against that since most cements tend to hold some water in them after curing solid, which is why you avoid modern regular cement in most high temperature applications since it'll convert to steam and blow the cement apart (even firepits). The primitive ash version *might* me ok but without a good deal of research making sure, I wouldn't risk it.
@@tristantheafflicted You'll really need to look at The King of Random or NightHawkNLight to see what I'm talking about. Most of their soup can, oil drum, and bucket forges (and even their foundries) are lined with a cement made of plaster of paris and sand. These builds and demonstrations are documented for your viewing pleasure.
@@beowulfshaeffer8444 Andy could take another lesson from Primitive Technology, make a blower for the furnace and one of those ceramic redirection things, whatever they're called.
There was a continuous reference to cast iron, but it looked like the metal stock being fed in was rebar. This makes it cast steel, dirty cast steel, but still steel. Being steel it will have much better capability to be cast, then forged and heat treated to a useable blade.
The movies all show open casting, but not further working. We could assume they forged after the pour.
Worth trying again, but next time with a furnace that can at least get good heat into a reasonable amount of steel.
Oddly enough in the tv scenes I've seen after they cast it and let it cool they then heat it again and let it cool then heat it again and hammer it on an anvil then dip it in water.
That's great that you did a collab with Nate I can't wait to see his video he does some really great amazing stuff
Theres also heat treating. With heat treating you can make certain areas softer(spine) and other harder(cutting edge).
They for got about the trapped air, a metal casting need two spouts or the trapped air would act like a stopper and cool of to fast
I found it pretty interesting that the cast iron sword managed to get in a few whacks into the wood. Another thing to consider when it comes to casting metal such as bronze or cast iron is a process called work hardening. Cast metals are generally fairly pliable one cooled, but after the process of work hardening which is basically repeatedly hammer them to form, the metal get consolidated and becomes much stronger.
You actually see a similar process in movies where they cast the iron swords into their preform and then go through the arduous process of hammering them flat and refine the shape as well as heat treating and tempering. Maybe the next time you try your hand at casting another iron, you could apply some blade smithing techniques to see if you get better results.
Im pretty shure you cant workharden cast iron (so the stuff with 2+% carbon content) in any practical way. Cementit (Fe3C), the stuff that forms in abundance due to the high carbon content, is super brittle, basicly a ceramic. The metal would form cracks before any meaningfull amount of dislocations has formed. Dislocations are what hardens the steel (not consolidation, this is a commen misconception) and are induced by deforming metal.
But you are right. Casting pure iron (so no carbon) or steel would lead to better results, with the former being workhardenable and the later possibly hardenable the traditional way. But they are much harder to cast since their meltingpoint is much higher...
Awesome video, I'm going to have this video on tap for any future "BuT I kNoW tHeY dEfInItElY dId CaSt IrOn SwOrDs." conversation that I have :D
A minor correction: Cast iron =/= iron that was cast. Cast iron is a specific material, iron that was cast can be any kind of iron that you melted and poured into a mold. The act of casting doesn't necessarily result in a higher carbon content. It can, and for your primitive furnace attempt probably would have, but that would have been a function of the heating with charcoal, not the melting itself.
The reason you don't want to cast a sword is because of the poor grain structure that results from the process. You also wouldn't want to forge a sword from the material cast iron either though, because of the high carbon content which you mentioned in the video. The end result of both would likely be the same, a brittle sword, but the mechanisms by which they became brittle would be different.
So glad to see you collab with Nate. I discovered this channel when you did an episode of TKOR with Grant trying to make clear glass!
I don't think any of the movies are using "cast iron" they're using iron/steel that's cast. Modern steel mills use molten steel cast all the time.
Plus all the films show them forging the swords next, they don't go from mold to battle immediately.
Most costume swords are cast because it doesn't need to be strong alot bend and stuff forged things are better
You can't forge cast iron
@@dustinstiner3057 like I said. There's a difference between "cast iron" and iron that's poured molten into a mold.
@@NathanS__ iron that is poured into a mold is by definition cast iron and not something you want to be hitting on an anvil. Iron ingots that blacksmiths used were not cast for a region.
@neer muse the ingots which blacksmiths would have used back in the Middle Ages and before would not have been cast for a number of reasons. The first and largest reason is that casting metal is a very difficult process and is much harder to do accurately. The quality in casts, especially in ferrous metals, can vary wildly from one part of the cast to the other. There is also a problem with voids when it comes to casting, a void in the middle of an ingot would make it near useless. The material which blacksmiths used (in general blacksmiths purchased their material from merchants since they didn't have the facilities to make it it themselves) would come in the form of bars of stock which were made in large smelting facilities by the way of working and consolidating masses of ore into a cohesive chunk in a similar method by which one would process bloomery.
The melting dirt in your primitive furnace is causing the temperature to hold through the phase change (similar to boiling water in a rice pot). Finding a higher temperature clay mixture may be a critical next step.
Forbidden episodes,
"How to make babies."
"How to make cyanide gas."
"How to cook your neighbors dog."
"How to make yellow cake out of uranium."
"How to build a trap for neighborhood pets."
Sounds like a mix of NileRed and MarkRobert Videos
Great to see Nate! Hope y'all work together again
you HAVE to watch the australian film "the navigator" from the 80s. medieval men searching for help with the plague travel through time to present day, to CAST A CROSS. VERY cool portrayal of open face casting
I'm not sure what route you're going to take for steelmaking, whether you're going to go with refining iron blooms to steel (via secondary furnaces and/or selection of your pieces by carbon content and then pattern welding etc) or if you're going to jump straight to crucible steel.
However you could consider the less commonly known methods of decarburizing cast iron into steel which pre-date the bessemer process, which are the puddling furnace and it's more primitive predecessor the finery furnace (which is essentially just a hole in the ground). Both of these basically work by stirring cast iron so that oxygen can get into it to burn away excess carbon, leaving steel or iron after.
These methods are not seen much in pop-culture, since finery furnaces were mainly used in asia (and in fact there isn't much evidence of bloom steel ever being used in China), and didn't make their way over to europe until at least the 13th century.
As a result I haven't seen many videos of these processes online so it could be cool to have one of the only videos on the process, especially since all our modern processes are based on these (which is particularly good for the whole "making your way to modern technolgies" theme)
I'd love to see the results of forging the cast iron sword. It should shed a lot of carbon during the forging process.
Personally I always considered the open faced molds to be for sword BLANKS, so cast then forged
This was my thought too.
how do you forge cast iron? isnt it too brittle?
I really appreciate the effort, but I was shouting at the screen when I saw y'all trying to pour cast iron into unvented molds. With the cobb mold, I would have burned off the 3D print (lost PLA method) and poured the iron while the mold was still hot. Since you already have to model it up in CAD, oversize your print by about 1% to account for shrinkage as the molten cast iron cools down.
How's the new shop build going?
Question becomes how hard would it be to get rid of some of that extra carbon thru a secondary process and turn this material into useful steel ? In such a context casting it initially make sense.
Ilya from baltimore knives and swords (back when he was still working for man at arms) made crucible steel from cast iron and some iron to make quite an awesome viking sword. I'd love to see andy take a shot at it, at least making the crucible steel part..
A sword wouldn't be terrible to get the carbon out of, since it's got such a thing cross section and high surface area. Carbon will naturally diffuse out of iron at a high enough temperature, similar to case hardening in reverse. Early blister steel was made in this way, keeping cast iron ingots in a carbon deficient atmosphere at a high heat for hours or days.
It's generally more efficient to start with a wrought iron and add carbon than to start with cast and take it out, but it's definitely doable
@@microwave221 I thought the scale is decarburization. So it's possible to decarb steel without it disintegrate into pieces? Wouldn't it be only surface decarb?
@@Herr_Scheissemann I've been under the impression that scale is an oxide, but I've never really looked into it. Metal does oxidize faster at the relevant temperatures regardless, so the sword would likely fall apart by the time it lost enough carbon to be steel unless the atmosphere was controlled to some extent.
Carbon will entirely diffuse into or out of the entire bit of metal given enough time, Clickspring does a great demonstration of this in his video on case hardening. It does start at the surface, but will gradually work it's way down to the core
Glad you are continuing forward, love the videos as always!
Perfect thumbnail throwback to the video I saw for weeks and didn't click but was so so so glad I did
An interesting related line of research may be a wind-fanned forge. Seems there are locations in Europe that used either coastal ledges or bluffs or slopes on the side of a valley that take advantage of natural wind conditions to fan the firing of the furnaces. There would be scoop-like structures built that would channel the prevailing wind that hits a rock face into one of the lower chambers where the firing was done. It may be one of the possible ways they got stuff like crucible steel, as it would take much less human effort to sustain higher temperatures. Not sure how you'd recreate that, since having an effective setup seemed to be highly location dependent with a consistent and somewhat sustained dry wind.
As far as casting a more steel-like iron... Might be some hybrid processes? An initial casting and then hammering out while red hot. (Some aspects of forging, but perhaps not as intensive? It would help with voids/cracking, but less actual forming of the material.) The main thing to make something like that strong would be the tempering/annealing process.
As a Smith, both in name and profession _(if only my mother had known),_ can I just say that it IS possible to cast a steel sword that is really quite nice, functional, and of decent quality? Not _good_ quality, but decent. It is by no means the most ideal.
You need a decent carbon steel, not overly high content - say 1095 or similar _(do not use high nickel stainless - yes there are reasons),_ nickel, and a few other ingredients. Think of this as scrap steel reclamation as is done in a steel foundry to make stainless stock... same process. This is not EASY, especially if you lack the proper kilns that can reach the required temperatures, and a waste of time and material.
Once cast, just as flat stock is cast in a foundry, and you add your profile by hand and hammer - not grinding as has become such a common short cut in blade smithing. This working of the steel will be correcting the grain structure, especially along the cutting edge, such that when you quench the blade the spine will still be relatively soft - the blade hardened. Precisely as you'd like.
_Disclaimer: Simply because you CAN do this, it is workable, and it will make a fully functional blade of semi-decent quality - this is much HARDER than simply forging the blade. You will also burn a bit of your steel, and the rest. MUCH harder. In summation: harder to do by an order of magnitude, wasteful, and you end up with a worse blade than even a lazily forged blade. Stick to smelting steel back into stock, and forging like normal._
_PS that'd be one ugly blade profile for any kind of iron._
Go to love that nominative determinism in action - I'm sure Mum would be proud!
Ok, but what you're describing here..... you are actually talking about a forged blade. It's just casting into the rough shape first so that you don't have to go from a thick rectangular billet to a blade. You're still work hardening the steel, at least the edges anyway.
i think you should working with expert (like the beer episode), this has so much potential but ends up half assed, sorry to say this
amazing to see lost pla casting with cob!!! i wanted to do research about something like this, but it's mostly impractical to try and reinvent the wheel of ceramic shell casting, so there isn't much readily available info on it. you guys did great on this. casting iron in a homemade cupola is no mean feat!!! i think the only other cool thing you could consider is casting thin plate, heating it up, and allowing it to decarburize, as a source of cheap decent-quality wrought iron for tools and stuff. if you made it really thin and heated up below burning temperature, all the carbon and phosphorus and sulfur would burn off, and then folding it a few times would squeeze out most of the silicon impurities. if you add this essentially pure iron to a crucible with some pig iron in a controlled way, and allowed it to dissolve together in a cupola, you could make really nice modern quality steel. or potentially even make a rod-shaped crucible to make your own high quality steel that was cast round stock, with no forging needed (though this would be more difficult).
My mom used to make jewelry with cast gold and silver. The molds were always heated in the kiln to a temperature close to the mountain metal. This kept the metal flowing into the most delicate nooks and crannies of the mold. The mold was made with wax. Hope this helps
I would love to see more woodworking projects, maybe a wood lathe??
Grandpa amu has a home-made pedal and belt powered lathe video.
Honestly? Cast iron might be more appropriate for a spearpoint or arrow point, IOW something semi disposable.
Frying the bacon on the sword 😁😁😁. This was a fun project!
So! Can You Cast an Iron Sword? Well, First things first: Let's 3D print a frying pan! :D
I believe the fictional depictions generally cast then forge the casting.
Also you should preheat/burn out your molds to drive out the moisture and reduce mold disintegration before casting.
Which would be a great way to leave splinters of cast iron on your anvil
@@toddellner5283 Yeah I imagine it is quite a light show as well
Well, that was fun seeing Nate make a surprise appearance!
I love watching this because you are great at telling your audience about human history.
I feel like a cast iron spearhead would would really well. Since the stabbing would be a compression force vs the force of slashing with a sword that made it snap
as long as they dont pry with it. if the spear head is too long the flexing force of impact and pulling it out might snap it. but i do agree with you on this point about a cast iron spear head
I suggest making your own bricks at this point. You've gotten far enough with technology to actually do it and the bricks will be able to sustain a higher temperature for the forge.
They already made bricks. This wasn't his forge
@@bl4cksp1d3r Ok, so was this just for collab then?
@@kiandoinart I'm pretty sure it's the collab partner who built it / builds it and uses it regularly, he said himself it started small and just... grew over time lol
I always love these forging and smelting videos. Baffles me to think how HARD this was in the past. No wonder it took 2 million years (counting non-homo sapiens) to go from stone to steel.
i hate how half assed this is, instead of using what he learned from casting bronze, he acts as if he never casted anything before... not that would help but still using horse dung was probably the worse offender: the plant matter burns and produces smoke and gas which stops the metal from flowing because it occupies the space instead. Add that to the fact that none of the molds have vents in them, its no surprise they all failed...
It's cool to see these guys try this even though other UA-camrs have said you can not cast an iron sword and they even said on the start that it will be brittle!
If ductile iron was cast then the resulting casting would bend.
Glad to see Nate here too! Cool collaboration
For all those that say what they could have done wrong and to try differently, it isn't about how you pour cast iron, is the cast iron itself the problem. It is too brittle, for blades you need a steel that is hard enough to retain an edge but flexible enough to absorb hits. Cast iron is just very hard and not flexible enough, is like glass. There is a reason why blades for centuries have been forged. The pouring thing is just an idiot thing for the movies since it looks "cool" (even if i think a blacksmith smashing hot steel looks cooler). I'm a little mad about this thing cause since i make knives a lot of people asked me if i pour molten steel to make knives... and thats only hollywood's fault if people don't know how bladesmithing works
NEVER feed your horse grass clippings!
The thing that most fantasy shows don't include is the amount of enchantment that goes into legendary and mythic weapons. Enchanted materials, enchanted fire, enchantments on the tools, the shop, the smith, and prayers to many gods.
Guys please do master the metals and metal-working part of civilisation. It will come in so handy for future projects which will require multiple iron or steel items (small and big). Perfecting the sand and other materials mixture or any other casting material is also a must - if the casting material you have is very good then you'll do much less work later.
Moreover, making items such as armour plates, tools or items for a possible steam-powered machine does require tons of work with metals.
Making a furnace that is up to the job is also very important - using bricks instead of clay and grass is going to make a huge difference. Using some basic concrete mixture to make sure the bricks are keeping the heat in would be neat. A big, well-constructed and sturdy furnace is going to beat the furnace used in this video any time of the day. You'll probably be able to melt iron in less than 10mins if you also construct a couple bellows as extra oxygen makes a real huge difference (you'll probably be able to melt other metals fine, too)!
The bellows are gonna last you for a really long time, unless the build quality is low, if the construction quality is good and it's overall very well-designed then it will be good for years, with some minor repairs here and there and when you re-construct it, pieces of the old bellows can probably be used.
Just a comment from someone that had been following you for a real long time now, since the first few episodes of the sandwich. Do not take this in the wrong way or in a negative way, it's just some constructive criticism as I've noticed that you guys have issues when it comes to smelting/metalworking and metal related things.
K, I wanna help, and I'd like to see you revisit this "cast iron" sword, but this is going to sound very critical and I don't mean it that way so please forgive me on this.
No.1: It's more likely closer to cast steel, not cast iron (Cuz semantics, and almost incorrect semantics at that lol;check out the differences of carbon content in cast iron vs cast steel. It's very counterintuitive lol). No.2 Cast steel swords were always hammer forged afterwards (and it was actually shown in those movies referenced) to increase tensile and compressive strength. No.3: they were typically cast in open wood flasks that were carbonized (ie:burned/ charred) to add a protection layer against the high heat. I don't know as though sand was used for that type of casting, icbw. No.4: there were no risers nor vents in your closed flasks which is probably one of the reasons you had trouble pouring those. In addition to heat. No.5: the sand/clay flasks could have been pre-heated to help with flow and premature cooling. No.6: insulation insulation insulation. This is likely the main reason you couldn't reach temps appropriate for your pour in the traditional clay kiln/foundry.
Revisit this and I'm sure you'll have better success.
Great vids, love them; and glad to see you bouncing back after the fire loss. Good luck!
You need to preheat your molds. They should be at around 1100 F when you pull the metal out for pouring.
This is especially important for a geometry like a frying pan in the way you're casting it because the metal has to flow over a lot of surface area to fill a small volume, giving the mold plenty of time to freeze the metal in its tracks and stop the pour.
awesome to see you working with Nate, between you channel and his they're my favorite channels for home diy projects
You might have this in the pipeline but I would love to see a video on ancient jewelry like refining precious metals and cutting stones.
If this has not been brought up already,
In defense of the Lord of the Rings sword casting scene at the beginning, the weapons and warfare book explains that the resultant swords are meant to be mass produced for Saruman's Uruk-Kai.
There was a hook at the end, meant to help dismount riders from horses, which was helpful against rohan who focused on mounted troops.
Only one side was sharped, making them more like cleavers, and made them quick to produce.
The swords were meant to fulfill what was needed and no more.
They were cheap quickly made swords, again described in the weapons and warfare book as being basically raw metal ingots with handles.
It's always nice to see other UA-camrs joining in.
Shame that the casts didn't work, but that's archaeology. 😀👍
Fair warning with your plans for a steam engine, it took a lot of effort to get metallurgy to the point where the boilers could withstand the pressure enough to not explode.
Ive been a og fan and i forgot the name of your channel because my phone broke like 5 months ago and i got a new one and thw whole of last week ive been trying to find your channel until i searched up how to everything youtube thaught that was close enough and brought me to your channel thank god ❤✨
I want to make a joke with ''Amen gas'' and holy farts but I will abstain
Fun fact: historical swords used to break all the time due to poor edge alignment. Even modern reproduction swords made for HEMA break occasionally, which means that either we got stronger or don't understand sword fighting very well...
There's no reason you couldn't still quench and temper your blade, which would make much difference. You could also finish it easier with more traditional techniques after tempering. But even then you'd have a sword that's made from an inherently brittle material.
Maybe if you reheated it in a coke forge before quenching, but idk.
Bronze is inherently softer, but did usually get work hardened by hammering the bevels. That's a different technique than grinding but does the same job, but also has other benefits that also kinda apply to other metals, in a way that the material gets more consolidated near the business end.
7:40 I wonder if he preheated his mold? Oh. Oh no.
Yes, a whistle vent in casting is essential. Green sand is 6 parts sand and one part clay with just enough water to make a fist ball. Water in molten metal will explode, dry your tools. This should be stressed for safety. A caste sword is the beginning process. next it needs to be heated and hammered to compress the steel into a uniform structure, forged, tempered etc.
Look at all the wonderful Utah hoary cress!
😆
I have that bespoke post box - the real surprise in there was the pancake mix. It was AMAZING.
I can point out some points about why the pan didn't work, First point I didn't see any holes for air to escape in the mold, second point, The metal has cooled down too quickly, perhaps heating to a higher temperature will make it liquid longer.
The Metal bars we used are industrialized casting, and that is how it's made. melting and mixing the cast iron and making it a bar, so it can be shaped and forged into a sword. Before the industrial revolution era, they were casting all forms of metal to make it into something.
They appeared to not be putting vent holes in the mould. So the air can be displaced and allow hot melt metal to completely fill the cavity of the mould.
If this technique was used for war in medieval times, you'd make spearheads and arrows with them.
Flexibility is required in order for weapons to maintain their form so to speak, otherwise the weapon would need to be super heavy in order to remain durable.
always preheat your molds!
I feel like youtube hates this channel sometimes
You may not have gotten the items you wanted, but I was entertained. Thumbs up from me.
You can improvise an electric arc furnace with stick welding equipment, graphite electrodes and an inert cover gas inside and old propane tank that has been cut in half. The top being the lid and the bottom having a conductive plate/bucket suitable for holding molten material. I should mention this should be well sealed with as little oxygen as possible. It may also help to install windows using welding helmet lenses.
Love your historic wepons and your videos
im so glad you're back on your feet
I once worked for a company that produced cast iron heaters. When I said cast iron couldn't be strong they gave me a huge hammer and an old heater element and told me to whack a piece off. After frantically hitting it for 5 minutes, I gave in.
Oh God! He's doing it again! The algorithm is going to make this video explode.
Have you considered casting then forging the the casting to close any voids and strengthen the grain structure?
"Never been this disappointed to see a bloom before"
16:37 "It will keel"
Doug Marciada approves 😂
you should really make a bellows. it would allow you to finally forge your own stuff without relying on modern technology or other people. there are some really good designs from back in the day that are practically automatic.
It absolutely can be cast using the Oliver method. Rods in the sand allow the steel to be tempered. This method was developed to produce cast it in plow sheers that needed to be both hard and strong.
In the future I suggest annealing it after you cast it, it'll help the coarse grain structure rearrange into something less likely to shatter.
It’s weird you can absolutely forge a bronze sword . Now if you can make good heat you can cast iron without changing the mix too make it brittle it would just need too up the heat . They pour steel now all the time too drop forge .
Did you try tempering the cast iron so it'd have higher elasticity?
Came here to ask this. It may have helped I think the wholes left in the casting would always be the failure point. I would also love to see other casting medium besides sand to be tested and make sure it is preheated.
if you need to mass produce swords, and can melt iron, then casting swordish shaped billets for later finishing makes a lot of sense.
Th problem is with the structure they would need to do the same ammount of work for those
@@matthewmcnamee2864 they would need far less work. And would still be far better than arming people with sticks.
@@robertshort9487 it depends on the armor and stick a bo staff can do alot of dammage compared to something that continously breaks on contact with another weapon just look at the vid infront of you the grain structure is random adding weakness vs forging where it's stretched along the sword so for the sword shaped billets they would need to fold and restretch it which would work like a normal sword and that case might aswell start with a bar it's why the cast iron sword broke and the forged one didn't
Sorry that I'm overtly late to the party, but I have to point out that you doomed yourself from the start with this cast-Iron sword....
Using the opening of the original 'Conan the Barbarian' as a guide, they used the casting to get the rough shape of the sword's billet & were not going for finished product yet - as you did.
First, it's assumed it was cast-iron alloy mix (may not have been true) & the color for the temperature seemed lower than that shown in the movie (both affect final product).
Then in the movie, they also refined the edge/form of the sword through 'traditional' heating/hammering techniques (including a minor concave of a blood-grove).
This makes the blade leach/loose carbon through each cycling of heating (making it more like steel) & might strengthen the structure where the pockets had formed.
As such, this would then make the cast-sword of Conan's father more on par with a crucible steel blades like the Ulfberht & Wootz swords.
Otherwise, it was a good attempt, the other casting fault you have been told of and I will not repeat.
I'd think and hope our ancestors were smart enough to do tests like this before going into battle with an unproven weapon 😂
Congrats! you made sword-shaped, cast iron mace :D
How do these guys not to put in a vent tube for their casts?
Loved the 'naughty dough' joke
Congrats! You successfully proved that you guys don't know the first thing of casting iron...
Good job!
decarburization could turn that into a better steel... allegedly
so it's not much good coming against other metals, but do you think it could be a useful material for other cutting tools? like, in a pinch, would you rely on a knife made from it?
Question, in all the movies you mention, after casting, they reheat and forge several times over, do you think this process could be part of the difference between a good sward and your sward?