Is this the world's most powerful guitar pickup? The Waffler pickup!
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- Опубліковано 25 бер 2022
- Is this the worlds most powerful standard scale single coil pickup?
Your questioned answered here:
• Q and A - Waffler Pickup
I decided to try and design a guitar pickup for maximum coverage of the strings. When a guitar string vibrate the location of a standard pickup may determine how much harmonic content is in the signal due to the position of nodes and anti nodes. When a string is pressed the length of the string is changed and therefore the position of nodes and anti nodes also changes.
So when a chord is played or as you move up and down the neck and also across strings the harmonic content changes. Having a longer pickup allows capturing more of the movement of the string ensures that the pickup cant sit only on a node.
My first impressions were that this creates a warm acoustic-ish sound, which is not what I was expecting, but it makes sense as the pickup is similar to a sound hole/acoustic guitar which amplifies the hole strings vibration.
I didn't quite reach the 10000 turns (due to technical issues...) so this version is a little underwound, I may try a hotter version to see what it is like.
My calculation of most powerful pickup is based on length of coverage for a single coil pickup, number of magnets and number of turns. If there is a better way to calculate this, I would love to know.
Do let me know what you think of this design, and what you would change in future versions? And I may try it.
Here is a video of my playing this guitar and pickup in a song:
• Dean Coyle - Stars (or... - Наука та технологія
The thumbnail generated casual interest, but then you added waffles and beans. You have my attention...
My attention and my sympathy
I've never been so traumatized.
As has been pointed out, it's only where the strings pass over the coil where current is generated so all the copper at the sides is doing little more than creating additional resistance without any additional current, lowering the signal. The extra magnets might strengthen the signal as the more magnetized the string is, the more current will be generated, but things work best when the string is magnetized closely to where the coils are, so I don't think all those extra magnets are doing much. To get the effect that you want, I think you need to have windings around each row of magnets - which you can duplicate by stacking a number of conventional single coil pickups next to each other, essentially a humbucker on steroids. I don't know if anyone's ever tried a four six or eight coil humbucker.
Blah blah blah blah blah and then the blah blah blah which crosses over the blah canceling out the blah blah blah so essentially you’re really not getting anymore blah than the blah.
@@thejakefromstatefarm6768 dude have you suffered a head injury 🧠 ?
WTF is wrong with you?
By the looks of it, I thought it was going to be a hex coil type of thing with 6 single Strat or Jaguar coil bobbins going length wise, that would have made sense. You are right though, all those magnets in the middle aren't really doing anything, all the work is being done by the magnets on the parameter of the coil. This sort of multi row magnet arrangement is similar to the original Fender Marauder design with the pickups sitting beneath the pickguard, the extra magnets were supposed to compensate for the greater distance between the strings and the pickup which worked better in theory than in practice. I've seen some modern attempts replicate the design but alnico 8 or ceramic was not strong enough so they ended up using neo magnets.
@@thejakefromstatefarm6768 What the hell is your problem? Everything he said is true. Unless you are a pickup builder with some sort of technical disagreement with what he said, you can screw off.
Nah, rows a boring, world needs coil around every pin
Sounds actually great!!!
Laughed so much throughout the video. Thanks!
The benefits of all the work and cost involved are debatable, but it seems functional.
The bonus for me was learning that there was this thing called waffles and beans in existence out in this world.
An instant subscription.
Cool work-thank you
Holy moly the driven tone sounds so good!!!
Thank you!
I like it! Sounds cool, especially in the most driven setting. Seems there'd be a good application for this in a grungy/garage-y setting. Lots of warmth but the highs have a good "ping" to them without the annoying sizzle strats can sometimes have in high-gain situations. Do a demo video with someone who uses a pick!
I will arrange this!
I agree I was surprised by the sound, a lot more useable than I expected!
I like the clean sound
I do, it surprised me!
I would honestly be interested in buying one of these if you sold them on etsy or something like that
Sounds great.
very cool, more please!!
Thank you Jay!
It's way brighter than I thought it would be. Essentially with humbuckers and the like, more output, more area coverage, etc all make for less high end. So when you tried to max both parameters, I figured it'd be very dark indeed.
I made a two string bass the other day and ran a gold foil humbucker sideways at the bridge and it sounds a lot like this. Crazy output.
I'm thinking of doing this to cover Morphine....now I know I gotta
Sideways is win- bigger magnetic window ….fatter sound without higher output pickups
Very cool idea!!
Cheers Timothy
Sounds nice for clean tones
It sounds way better than I thought it would. Cool experimental pickup!
Try using some of the super poweful magnets and see what happens.😊
That was my thoughts!
It's a cool design, I'd like to see more done in this kinda form factor.
Since the string needs to pass over the coil, which it only does at the front and back, it seems like its 2 single coils. 1 at the front and 1 at the back. Magnetic force reduces quickly with distance so maybe the 2nd row had an effect but the other magnets were possible not doing anything. Would be very interesting to see if it would work if every row was wound (11 single coils). Even better would be a knob that allowed you to switch between each of the 11 as they would all have a different tone due to their position on the scale.
That might be a really pain to wind, though I will have a think about it and see if there is a way to get it work.
Johnny Marr had a guitar similar to this idea.
www.guitarworld.com/news/johnny-marr-fender-spirit-strat
@@deancoyle Of course it would be a pain to wind. Hence nobody does it. You could test yours though. Sound test your pick up as is Then test it again with all magnets removed except for the front and back column. It should sound pretty much the same. RE J Marr: Right, so, in Johnny's design each pickup will have a different sound because it is positioned on a different part of the scale
Wiring for that would be insane you’d need a breadboard with 10 diodes and a capacitor with maybe few hundred microfarads to not limit resistance of the poten
@@Eddyvnhln5150 I'm not sure about that. There are guitars with 4 or more pick ups that dont seem to have that issue.
sounds interesting and looks cool .
Thank you :-)
First time I heard a PU being related to soap, fries and waffles.
It wont be the last....
Screw-in (out) pole pieces would be cool.
One could create different “pickups” within the Waffler grid by adjusting the height of individual magnets or removing some of them completely.
Also putting 2 Wafflers back-to-back with the coils reversed might be interesting (if you could get them together...).
I feel we are on a similar wave length! Soooo many options so little time! I will post the results of some of these ideas soon!
Unfortunately, the magnets on the inside of the pickup which the copper wire doesn’t touch will have no effect on the sound of the pickup. Very cool idea, and I was curious enough to click, but as pointed out in several other replies it’s the copper wire being wrapped around the magnets that created the inductance (the sensitivity to the vibrating strings) so the magnets in the centre are just for decoration. Using larger or stronger magnets in a standard humbucker format would yield more drastic results.
I really like this outside the box thinking sir. You just might be onto something here.
Cheers Rob, I do like the sound it makes.
Six bobbins! Same pole configuration, but separate coil for each string!
I like it! Tone and Volume controls for each string?
Does the amount of magnetic pull on the strings impact sustain? I’m very curious to hear sustained notes and solos vs. just strummed parts.
I would like to see one of these with a bunch of tiny coils for each individual pole.
as we all expected...
How about making gloves with pickups in each finger that are wrapped in copper windings. This dude could probably make that work! No need for routing pickup cavities at all!
Cool video dude
I think it sounds pretty good
Thank you!
The effect of this pickup reminds me of the effects of a tube mic. It’s like a more 3D sound to it. May just be confirmation bias idk.
That's amazing. When i get my engineering degree, i'm so making a full titanium baritone 8 string with a waffle pickup like that.
Creating one of them will ensure you get top marks!
"Modifications will be reversible", gets the chisel out. I approve.
It’d be fun to see it in the bridge position and with the modification that @CarsInDepth suggested. I was thinking the same thing regarding windings around each column/row (depending on placement).
I do need to try that configuration, watch this space... Thank you Eric!
Hey brother, my big question is, the easiest way to be able to tell what it sounds like is playing single notes higher up the neck, particularly on the EAD strings. Do you get beats or double tones where it soundd out of tune?
Chords can sound great, but too much magnetic field can as you saw pull on the strings.. but coupled with the wider sensor zone, curious if there are double tones that make single notes " beat ".
that much winding is going to have a really high resistance and inductance, eating a lot of high frequencies. underwinding this might actually be a good idea so as not to get a "muddy" sounding pickup
Interesting points, I keep meaning to research if the size of the coils of an inductor reduces inductance as the coils get bigger? But yes, resistance is going to approx double for same number of turns to a single coil. I may try a few versions of different number of turns, there is so much to experiment with.
@@deancoyle famitory is correct, maybe you can offset the undesirable characteristics of a large coil by changing the wire diameter!
@@deancoyle that pick up can be more useful for bass guitar. I believe with more resistance (because of longer wire) you will have more mid and bass, it looks like Musicman or Gibson eb bass. you must try ceramic magnet.
Use 44awg wire to balance that out
The first clean tones sounded very pleasingly acoustic to me, very nice. The other tones not so much.
Unfortunately in order to understand any difference in standard pickups you need to do a compare...all that we can tell from this is that it works and sounds good...great job overall..can you do a video swapping out a standard pickguard plate with pickups con of a brand name and compare ?
Id like to hear the pickup strummed with a pick and maybe some leads thrown in to hear some different dynamics. Fingers have a distinctive other feel than a pick but cheers! Pretty fun design!
I would like to see more about how you built the pick up winder! I see kits available, but they're all so expensive.
I will make a video on it and share the parts/code/pick list. If you have access to a 3d printer it should be budget friendly and super controlled.
I have 3 I didnt pay more than 200 bucks for. They are so simple its not funny.
What about the strong magnetic pull that affects the string vibration?
I think you mean maple syrup and waffles
There are some 4 humbuckers (2 single size HBs toguether, with hot rails) on aliexpress and they sound amazing in high gain.
Their called quadrails and they were originally made for kramer guitars! And fuck yeah they sound dope as hell
I’ve got one of those red knobs somewhere….I think they were a free gift one month in Total Guitar
I would love to see a guitar with 2 half sized versions of these. The mini waffler lol, bet it would be amazing.
is there a single winding of coil around all of them or is it like a huge humbucker? because it being like a 6 coil humbucker would probably be incredibly powerful.
You should make one that fills the whole space. Then instead of the pickup selector switch have a dial that will go from the bridge to the fretboard. And make a switch to activate the whole thing at once. Could be the future of guitars.
Try with bar pole pieces like the ones in the DiMarzio X2N, if you can find yourself enough of those?
Great! Make it big enough to replace all 3 pickups but incorporate the switch to allow variations of magnets. 3 separate sections (like the original single coils), 5 sections, or more.
That's the plan!
@@deancoyle great! Can't wait to hear it
You would have to have sections of individually wound bobbins to achieve that
Imagine if you could have an app and select each individual pole piece you want, you could draw patterns in it or words.
Too cool ! I have thought through out the years a similar idea. An idea that each string is provided with it's own pick-up to define the sonic quality . Though in a studio it could drive a sound engineer off of his E-Q ,HZ expertise . Now playing live with this component .... hum . Could be challenging providing the type of amp , processor , eq etc....
The Gibson EB-4L had exactly this.
The 11 on your volume knob! 😂😂😂
The more I learn about pickups the more I realize that pickup positioning plays a bigger role than anything else! ☮️
That is a good point. Positioning is ikey 🗝️
I think there's a reason for the old bridge pickup still being there.
The bridge pickup was to do a comparison, I will record this and post this soon. There is quite a difference between the two.
Sounds good and meaty. Why not make just one big sound hole sized coil with one pole piece.
I like it!
I'd use neodymium magnets and more winds. Place the pickup under a blank pick guard for a stealth effect.
individual string pickup could be a cool idea
like humbucker but morebucker
where you could like this wafle pickup
rase or lover the individual pece for the desired tone
and the benefit to master each string would come handy
?
It's nice to explore and experiment. I think that you have made the signal to the amplifier a bit stronger more volume. I don't think the magnetic pull on the strings can be useful.
I don't know what you're playing it through and I need some sort of A-B comparison, like flip between your waffle and the single-coil at the bridge. Initially it sounds similar to just a three-coil strat.
More-er is better-er! Nice crazy fun!
You got that right!
Great! Where can I get one? I”d rather replace the bridge & middle pickups with it tho. Or perhaps you could make a full size that replaces all three! Oh, black bobbins please, those would go with any color guitar better, imo. Fantastic, like this a lot, Thank You
Was that w/ 250k pots? What size resistor?
Would a bobbin printed with carbon fibre PLA cause issues with a pickup?
how does it sounds in the feedback area?
Coyle indeed
If you 3d printed the bobbin as part of the picguard and extended all the way to the bottom it would be ideal visually
Genius, that would look soo cool, i guess adjustment would be hard - but that is a price worth paying for style! That is going to be fun to wind haha
Unsurprisingly it has a somewhat jazzmastery sound!
U made a P360 pup, nice successor of the P90. Lol
what about made similiar big pickup but from several narrow single coils and wire it through some multi switching mechanism to have as many combinations as possible? could be interesting, but also lot of work ;)
Cool idea, I might just try that. Thank you
I'm more of a Bridge-Pickup player. I'm sure this kind of pickup would be a perfect choice for a "slidable pickup" which can be moved freely between neck and bridge position. Doing so repeatedly would give you a wah/flange-ish effect without any effect pedals.
That is a genius idea!
I saw Sleepy Time Gorilla Museum play a sliding pickup on a huge homemade diddly bow. Good for finding harmonic modes, especially on super long strings
It sounds great I wonder if it could be hidden behind the pick guard ?
I think that could be done....
Honestly…. It sounds nice clean. Very vintage sounding
I think so too!
Would have liked to see switching from the bridge pickup to the monster pickup to validate the difference in my mind would be.
Hey, there is a comparison in this video
ua-cam.com/video/BNmaNF8RIqI/v-deo.html
I thought it would sound like an awful overwound pickup but honestly it was a pretty good pickup. Punchy to say the least.
Too many magnets pulling the strings down can create problems.
How much lower did you have to set that pickup than the standard single coil pickups?
I’d say that it’s likely only the outer magnets are picking up a strong signal as they’re close to the coil wire, I imagine the ones in the middle don’t do much to add to the sound? I’d say that breaking the pickup into a bunch of stacked singles or have one vertical coil per string would be a stronger design (also then you could split the coils and do all kinds of wacky combos)
they do something, it's falling of squared with distance though, now if that was single slab, it's probably be a lot more
I was thinking along the same lines. But, I'm not an electrical engineer, so I couldn't really speak to it, with an appropriate level of intelligence.
I think you would have almost the same result if you had kept the overall shape but completely omitted the pole pieces between the ones nearest the neck and the ones nearest the bridge. Or possibly 2 rows at those locations. It does sound better than I thought it would, I was expecting mud.
One design flaw. I suspect that the volume between strings would vary greatly because the windings are on the outside. So the high and low E magnets are closer to the windings but on average the magnets for the D and G strings are much further from the windings. Also I noticed during the clean demo, high and low E were not played.
That was a concern I had when making it, though this is not the case. The strings are equal in volume.
ua-cam.com/video/BNmaNF8RIqI/v-deo.html
I would locate it starting from the bridge pickup position. Clean sounded great but heavy was too mutteled, possibly because how far the strings can vibrate over such a long distance. The bridge is usually sharper and more crisp and that’s why heavy distortion sounds better through the bridge pickups.
(1 year later) I want to know if the magnets pull down the stings so it restrains a little of sustain. And I want you to install 11 (eleven) tele neck pickups in series to see if the results are the same. Nice sound on this one anyway
These go to eleven(11)-- Nigel Tufnel
It is even Single Coil?? That's crazy :D
I think splitting the bobbin and having it be a huge humbucker would increase output....
I'm surprised the strings aren't visibly bending in towards the magnets! So much drag and pull
Sure that’s a big single coil, but why not make a big humbucker-
You should put three quadrails together XDD
I like your thinking, I will put something together...
Answer to your question at 2:30, i think it will sound like a giant single coil, like a P-90 on steroids, ( but i also think it will be horribly noisy, and pick up radio stations )
I didnt think about radio stations .... that is always an achievement when you pickup random braodcasts! Maybe the next one!
Id like more if was on the bridge position
What's the difference between the waffler and the bridge sound. Would have been good to have a comparison in the video.
Hi Maaka
I compare the two in this video:
ua-cam.com/video/BNmaNF8RIqI/v-deo.html
Wait, did you only wind the outside? How would you get to the magnets in the middle then? I think you'd have more luck by stacking normal pickups, perhaps rotated 90 degrees.
Another design could be by using stronger magnets on the top and using the very centre of the pickup as the post to wind around, perhaps using a slightly thicker wire to avoid a completely ludicrous impedance.
Why not try a long hotrail that lays diagonal and goes from bridge position on the low e side to the neck position on the high e side
Love that
I think the COIL ONLY on the outside of the bobbin is limiting the Field
This pickup has a unique natural reverb
It does, maybe that why it reminds me of an acoustic guitar!
@@deancoyle Great Work Dude, Best Wishes 🙏🌹
It sounds like an Alnico 5 P-90. It doesn't sound bad at all but, I think you'll get the same sound from a Seymour Duncan Stag Mag.
Cool! Now make an entire neck into a pickup!
stupid question but with all those magnets effect sustain?
Not a stupid question at all.
My understanding is this:
I think sustain is destroyed when too close to the magnet, it doesn't depend too much on magnetic field strength.
The magnetic field following an inverse square law for distance from the magnet, when something is close to the magnetic and oscillates it sees a big change in the magnetic force for the close and far away locations.
When the oscillation is further away the difference in field strength is less pronounced and if affects the sustain less.
I thought I might try to make such big pickup for taking all high harmonics and main tones same time for more clear biger and most naturel tone myself. Then i searched if some crazyman tried it. And yes. You made it🤟. My idea was not making it for stronger tone but clearer and richer tone. You may try it with less magnets and/or less wire but wider enough to reach to bridge and neck. And to make it less powerfull. And play with pickup height. I thing it might be more clear open and rich single pickup sound. Making it powerful shouldnt be the motivation. It might pick some radio signals 😂 but still it might worth it
Beyond a certain point though, power becomes a problem. Too much magnetic full full just destroy sustained create double tones and cause issues. But I like the way your mind works😊
Maybe do rail type shorter and less turns each on each string.
Does this pickup exhibit resonant feedback issues at higher volume/sound-pressure levels?
Maybe make more individual coils so you can switch the coils ON and OFF to give you a variable output pickup!
Not only "MORE", but multiple output options as well!
Also, can you measure the Gauss level at the strings, is it much more than a stock Fender single coil pickup?
I was wondering also about acoustic sustain, are the magnets so strong that they inhibit the strings natural vibration?
Lots of good work done Dean, please keep at it.
Some interesting ideas here. I will have a test let you know what I come up with.
oooh that idea but for bass dude kinda like thundercat's triple humbuckers
Thundercat only has 2 humbuckers in his bass, the thing in the middle is a thumb rest
You should do some diagonal pick ups. X shaped maybe
Two combined V2 Gibson pickups 💀💀💀
So, the wire coil itself. The left and right aren't over any strings. So only the top and bottom parts matter.
As I understand it, the magnets purpose it to magnetize the strings. The the strings, now magnets, vibrate over the coil and induce current.
So I wonder if the inside magnets actually contribute anything or not.
If you only use the top and bottom row of magnets, how does it sound?
My logic was that the magnets are all fighting each other and this creates the effect of one large magnet. Though you do raise a good point, what would it sound like - I have not idea. I will think I will give it a go. Thank you for the idea!
You might be right. And besides that, there are probably other subtle effects that I'm not even aware of.
My theory is that the magnet's effect is local, just a bit more than the string section over it.
So if that is correct, or mostly correct, then it should sound about the same with just the outer magnets.
But, maybe the inner magnets have a bigger effect and do make a difference.
So that has me thinking of making the coil more complicated, to work into the middle. No idea how to wind it though.
Here's a crazy idea. I was trying to think of a way to make use of the part of the coil not over the strings. I guess all pickups have that part, but you've made it a lot larger.
Do you remember the spinning title belt John Cena used to have?
What if the entire pickup could spin a circle, either manually or driven by a motor?
Bro this looks like something Ibanez would make bro 💀💀💀
I want one of those on my P BASS!!!😊
Would Love to see this installed in almost anything other than Fender. Perhaps a cheap Schecter, Ibanez or LTD and then wanna hear it through a Highend Tube Amp or Fractal Unit.
No Offense but your Distortion Channel doesn't do Justice to this Revolutionary idea of yours! The Guitar as well.
I expect upcoming iterations of your Pickup to Wield the Power to Summon Demons. Keep us posted.
more copper turns and better magnet polls maybe great idea
bigger pole pieces i feel would be best