What Was A Governess? The Jane Eyre Life Explained
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- Опубліковано 17 гру 2020
- Try Skillshare: skillshare.eqcm.net/JrGqga 🎨 Ever wonder what was a governess? After all, governesses dominate classic literature like Jane Eyre, Becky Sharp and Miss Taylor from Jane Austen's Emma. In this video, learn what life was REALLY like for governesses in the Regency and Victorian Era.
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I highly recommend this book. It’s a primary source for this video and has a million more great insights into governesses’ lives!
Governess: The Lives and Times of the Real Jane Eyres
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Some of My Favorite Audible Selections
Pride and Prejudice: amzn.to/3MTE1IyThe Scarlet Pimpernel: amzn.to/3P4IXgh
Northanger Abbey Audible Audiobook: amzn.to/3qrEuKo
Emma: amzn.to/42xBDNl
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Little Women
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Vanity Fair
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Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë
novel: go.magik.ly/ml/1u4d3/
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Jane Eyre 2011: amzn.to/3CiqXHU
Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen
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1940 Movie: amzn.to/43uQwBy
1995 Miniseries (Colin Firth Version): amzn.to/42zFoSm
2005 Movie (Kiera Knightly Version): amzn.to/3qCNVqE
Audiobook read by Rosamund Pike: amzn.to/3MTE1Iy
Emma
Novel: go.magik.ly/ml/1u441/
1996 Movie: amzn.to/43RxXal
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2020 Movie: amzn.to/45Yl9AM
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Downton Abbey
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North and South
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This whole thing is why in Pride and Prejudice Mrs Bennet spends her life trying to get her daughters married. She knows what their fates will be if they don't end up married. Also since this realisation I have far more tolerance for her!
And far less tolerance for Mr Bennett, who shouldn't just relied on fathering a son as his retirement plan for his wife.
@@astrothsknot This!
"once you have 5 daughters, Lizzy, tell. me what your thoughts circle about, and maybe then you'll understand"
She’s actually one of the smartest and most socially conscious characters in the novel.
I definitely think her daughters would be better off a governess than married to Wickham. But Lydia would've been a horrible governess
This youtube is very handy for my fanfiction writing feeling a touch more historically accurate.
😃 Yay! I’m glad it’s helpful!
I always looked up to Jane Eyre as a governess as a young girl because Bronte describes her taking great pains to fully value Adele’s future and home life. She gives Adele as full an education as she can, focusing and disciplining her and taking pride in her improvement as she learns actual school subjects. She gives Adele positive attention and criticizes her father for trying to just throw trinkets at her instead of fathering. And, when Adele goes to boarding school, she follows up and intervenes when she sees Adele looking thin and being treated badly (just like Jane was). Jane’s arc is becoming empowered enough to have a career as a teacher, choosing to say no to two men she had a lot of pressure to say yes to, and only getting married because she, without the pressure of a power imbalance (ie your boss wanting you to be his mistress) wants to.
Jane Eyre is a love letter to female independence and the power of education for girls and young women.
Completely astonished that "this could happen to my daughters, my daughters could end up in this position" wasn't used as a motive for kindness and treating her well in the hopes that, should it come to it, your daughters would also be treated well if they found themselves in the same position.
People often think bad things can’t happen to them, which is why US for example doesn’t have universal healthcare.
Desperation can really make you act like an idiot.
@@sarasamaletdin4574 no honey. We don’t have universal healthcare because it’s a massive burden that takes away your freedom of choice over your own health and had we done so other countries would have to invest more in their own military and either tax their already ridiculously high taxed people more or lower/dissolve their health care because the US would no longer give them military protection as we would have to weaken the military budget just like all the other countries have who have “universal healthcare”. You can’t get anything for free. That healthcare cost someone else something more dear to them.
Not only that but she's teaching your children how to behave in society. If you treat her too badly, she may be willing to self-sabotage and teach them something terrible to make you look bad... I always tell my kids, be kind to the people handling your food, doing jobs you can't or don't want to do! (Retail work, food & service, mechanics, plumbers, etc.)
@@hollybrooke322 so true! I'm totally in favor of reform (why is there an enrollment period? Why can't we cross state lines?) But do not want universal. I've seen government management of Healthcare in the VA system. It's truly awful!
This was interesting on a personal level.
I was an au pair after high school, so I've been in that "in-between" social mess, where I was definitely too fancy for the cleaning lady (yes, they had an au pair for the kids AND a 20hrs/week cleaner) to be relaxed around me, but also not part of the family. And they were lovely to me, don't get me wrong. But they were still my employer!
And it was great doing that for 10 months as a teenager in central Paris and seeing and doing stuff I otherwise wouldn't have had the chance to, but as a career? It would have been horrible.
Perhaps this is why governess characters in novels appeal to me; I kind of know what their situation was. Stuck between social classes, getting attached to kids that weren't your own and that you knew you'd have to leave, living somehow in the shadows.
That is so fascinating! And I am so glad that we do live now when you don’t have to do that the rest of your life!
@Maggie W There's DEFINITELY a huge difference between my experience and that of many nannies and even "au pairs" (in quotation marks since many of them are NOT treated as an equal/au pair). And there does seem to be a certain racist element to how nannies/au pairs are treated, even to this day.
@Maggie W I’ve only worked short term nanny jobs but I’ve noticed this too! The parents can be very undermining and disrespectful
@@EllieDashwood We now live in an era where most people would not have domestic servants at all. A whole tier of people have been removed from society (and mostly replaced by machines, or by people we hire by the hour for a specific job and don't live in).
The role of women, even more than of men, has been usurped by machines. Even the role of women to breed the next generation of labour has been supplanted by machines that perform that labour (hence the falling birth rate as we just don't need the manpower).
Hfil66 That's a good thing I'd say women shouldn't have to have kids just to fill the labour force now more people can have kids just to love them though that's not always the case
I was an international nanny for many years. Times have changed. In my experience, the "new money" families, people that still had a connection between work and money, were incredibly kind to me. They would give me fair hours, time off, let me have friends over whenever the kids were asleep and even sometimes leave me bottles of wine for nights that I was called in when I was scheduled off. I was also often invited to social gatherings that were outside my hours, just because I became 'part of thr family' and was generally considered more a big sister in those situations. The "old money" families, people who were generationally used to having help, treated me like a total servant/slave. They may pay well, but my time was not my own, my days off were continually changed. Depending on the company I would 'dine' with the family or eat in the kitchen. My suggestions for the children were constantly belittled and my disciplining was constantly undermined so the kids knew I had no actual control of thr situation.
All that being said, I can attest that the mother being gone/dead does make the job of nanny a whole lot easier! As morbid as that is, it's very true.
I think Jane Eyre did aspire to be a governess. She worked hard but it was ticket out of an even worse situation.
Yeah. Jane Eyre was unlucky enough that becoming a governess was actually a big improvement. It was an instance of her actually taking agency in her life, and applying for a job all on her own in order to get out of that school. It still wasn't what she really aspired to, though.
Yes. As hard as the life of a Governess was, there were much worst fates for young ladies at the time.
@@jeremylin4087 Yes, and what's more, the salary she earned at the Lowood school was even more meagre than the money she earned at Thornfield - I think she earned 15 pounds a year (!!) at Lowood and 30 pounds at Thornfield (which was an unusually high salary for a governess, the 15 pounds were much closer). Also, governesses were not only underpaid as compared with male tutors, but also as compared with other domestic employees such as ladies maids.
Yes! She made a direct effort to advertise for herself, which she got backlash for at the school for doing. She made an effort to change her circumstances. Some of the best early feminist quotes come from Jane Eyre’s mouth. Charlotte Bronte was truly ahead of her time. Of course, all three sisters had to publish under male names…
This helps me to understand the scene in "Little Women" (the book, not the movie) where Meg March is talking to Kate Vaughan at "Camp Laurence". Kate is English, and from the upper class, but she doesn't seem to view governesses as people to be respected. Meg herself works as a governess in a rich American household, and while Kate is polite to her at first, the moment she finds out that Meg is a governess, she becomes extremely patronising and makes an excuse to stop talking to her.
Meg aggrievedly says to Mr Brooke "oh dear, I quite forgot that people in England look down on governesses, and don't see them as we do". And Louisa May Alcott shows Kate thinking to herself "I didn't come to chaperone a governess, though she is young and pretty".
The fact that Meg is a governess is also because her family were once rich, but then lost all their money and fell on hard times - although Meg is working to help support her family, rather than herself. They lived in America, not England, but it seems that during that time period, the class distinctions in America were very similar to those in England. There were various mentions of young ladies "coming out", and a chapter where Amy and Jo March went out and made "morning calls" to all their acquaintances.
The only difference was that Meg lived at home still, and went every day to the house where she worked to teach the children. The way it looked to me, governesses in America seemed to operate in a more "teacherly" capacity, rather than raising the children
This really explains something from Emma, which I reread recently: the way Austen makes it sound like all these jobs Mrs. Elton wants to recommend Jane Fairfax for are AWFUL, even though they sounded to me like they'd be decent positions. But if working for a nouveau riche family was a serious problem, and all of Mrs. Elton's friends are nouveau riche, that explains it!
I loved the way you pointed out that had the Bennet girls had a governess, Lydia might not have been so wild. It never crossed my mind but makes a lot of sense.
Of all Mrs. Elton's offenses, rejoicing in Jane's bad luck while pretending to be her friend was the worst! She could easily try to marry Jane, but instead wanted to retain her "social superiority". I didn't understand it before, but now I see how awful she was, and what an excellent foil she is for Emma, who honestly wanted to make her friends happy.
I used to teach ESL classes in the US and a lot of my students were au pairs. They are like governesses in the “in between” space. Their reasons for coming to the US were numerous but one reason was to study in a US college. So these host families would bring an au pair in from a foreign country to take care of their children then to honor the educational agreement they’d arrange for their au pair to attend my free morning classes or free evening classes. These girls would tell me they were expected to clean during the day if the children were at school. And prepare meals. Some would be left at school in freezing temperatures and have no transportation home at night. In a foreign country they were not familiar with. I can imagine governesses also facing sexual harassment and worse. It had to be a terrible life with no real security.
This is why the au pair arrangement was recently outlawed in my country (Norway). Because the au pairs were often exploited. Much work for little pay.
This video makes me think a bit about Pride and Prejudice. Since the Bennet sisters had not had a governess it would have been much harder for them to obtain jobs as one. And frankly, everyone but Mary was far too pretty to be acceptable as a governess anyway. This would have added more stress to Mrs. Bennet. Her daughters had literally no other recourse except marriage. Everyone likes to hate on poor Mrs. Bennet, but she was just being practical.
Indeed. Jane is sweet tempered and Lizzy intelligent but neither paint nor draw nor play instruments well nor speak foreign languages. We mock Caroline for her description of an accomplished woman but these are the skills that a governess would need to have.
@@kayfountain6261 An alternative to becoming a governess was to become a ladys compagnion. Jane would have had the patience to deal with an elderly lady, Lizzie...not so much. Not enough to stay employed.
Why are people hating Mrs. Bennet? Yes, she can be obnoxious but hate is a bit too strong a reaction in my opinion. 😄
@@kayfountain6261 Erm. . .didn't Lizzy play?
@brucealanwilson4121 yes, but not well and she does not practise.
I was a nanny for 5 years and some things haven’t changed. Lol
Oh no! Well, I’m glad you survived it!
Amen, sister. Law enforcement is weak on this issue and social pressure to be a gentleman virtually non-existent. If you are not a citizen of the country, the threat of deportation (or worse) is always there.
Fascinating. Lizzie and her family took their standard of living for granted. Parents didn’t put aside any money for decent dowries, even after Lydia was born 16 years prior and still no son. Lizzie criticized Charlotte, but Charlotte decided that being married to Collins was better than being a governess. Lizzie’s family likely was relying on their mother’s well-off brother to help support them.
Well, to be a governess or Mr. Collins's wife is... a tough choice 😄
No they were not relying on support as long as Mr. Bennet lived as their yearly income was pretty nice - and he had assumed they would eventually get a son who would help his sisters. But now, without a son and the girls having only relatively small dowries for a gentleman's daughters - now they were indeed relying on getting the girls married.
Also... Werent they at danger of being taken advantage of by their male employers or grown sons of the household? And kicked out of course if they became pregnant... That must have happened too, right?
Yes! This is such a good point. Life was so rough back then. 😭
Oh, yes. And then they would be fired for "going after" the man.
Crime and Punishment. Dostoyevsky. Raskolnkov's sister Dunia
Oh yes! That was the horror they all feared. A good solid lock on her bedroom door was a must-have.
This is discussed in the classic Sherlock Holmes story, "the Copper Beeches". It was a serious problem especially in the Regency Era and in the more rural areas of the UK where there really was not anyone to challenge the power of local elites. It got better in the Victorian Era with the creation of public police forces and the growth of urbanization making it easier for the government to enforce the laws against rape and basically everything else. In earlier eras, you were dependent on community pressure and threats of retribution by your family and friends (e.g. Beatrice's request to Benedict to avenge Hero in "Much Ado about Nothing") which as Doyle notes, was not reliable in a spread out area with poor peasants who cannot defend a governess even if they want to do so.
Ooh, you should have brought in another Bronte sister with experience as a governess: Anne Bronte. She wrote "Agnes Grey", which took a much more grounded look at the life of a governess in two families, one more middle class and the other upper class. The novel is honest, sharp, unsparing, and drily humorous. Anne herself held two governess positions, and, in the second family, where she lasted for five years, established a relationship with the daughters of the family. She and the girls exchanged correspondence after Anne left, often asking for moral support against or for the mother's marriage plans for the daughters. And during the last weeks of Emily's life, when Anne was already starting to show symptoms of her own, two of the daughters made the trek to Haworth for a visit. Charlotte notes how the girls hung around Anne with total trust, and Anne's calm washing over them. Here, in Anne, are several of the points you make about the difficulties of being a governess.
Thanks for that input, you tell it in such a vivd way I can easily imagine it! The Brontës seem to have been incredibly fascinating and strong personalities. They should have been allowed to live longer...
I was thinking the same!
There's a 20th-century example in The Sound of Music! Although less relevant because it's in the modern times, and pertains to a Continental situation, nonetheless it portrays some of the difficulties of governessing. "Seven children!" is a huge burden to bear; the children have a history of driving governesses to quit (rapidly); conflicts with their stern and cold papa; Papa doesn't permit his children to perform at a public festival, as this wouldn't be genteel behavior for a noble family (have accomplishments, but don't get too serious about them, or you won't be a lady or a gentleman, as Miss Ellie has elucidated for us in another video); and oh yes, then there's a love triangle vs. a fancy society lady with the master of the house!
(I don't suppose the governesses of the Regency era had to run away from actual Nazis, though.
Seriously the sitaution in the Von Trapp household retained many of the historical expectations and traditions around governessing, even though it was over a hundred years after Emma and about a century after Jane Eyre. I guess the upper crust /baronry in Europe were hewing to the old ways long into the 20th century.
This is such a nice positive example of what governessing could be like. Like all jobs, I should imagine there were good experiences and bad experiences, good employers and bad ones. Yes, and good governesses and bad governesses! 😉
That's interesting - definately going to have to read those books now.
I had to laugh about your comment regarding the governess teaching French poorly. My first French teacher in junior high school spoke flawless French (as I later learned). He left after one year. The next teacher was hired to teach English literature classes, but supposedly her minor was in French, so she was made the French teacher too. On day one we knew that we were in serious trouble as she mangled even the most basic French greeting to our class. However, the administration refused to listen to our complaints about her dreadful accent and teaching, so we were forced to learn and speak French her way if we wanted to pass the class. The next year, in our first year of high school, our French teacher was someone who’d lived in France for 10 years and spoke perfect Parisian French. What we’d “learned” from our bogus French teacher the year before brought him no end of hilarity as we regularly slaughtered the language, which is easy to do with French by changing just one vowel sound even just slightly. I finally did learn to speak French correctly.
That’s the same thing that happened with my high school versus college French teachers! In high school, the teacher was just a brand new college grad who had taken classes in French. In college, it was a woman who had been raised in Paris because her dad was in the military. Needless to say, there was a difference. 😂
My husband had a some what similar situation. My MIL is American but moved to Germany as a young woman, and married a German man. She was a German-English teacher, and even wrote a book on German-English Grammer. When my husband had to "learn English" in middle school, he had a difficult time, because his English was fluent, while the teacher was constantly mangling it. The irritated the teacher who didn't like having a preteen pointing out how incorrect their language skills were.
I had a similar experience with American Sign Language. My first semester teacher, it turned out, wasn't particularly good. Got to the second semester and everyone in that class was sooooooo far behind! The 2nd professor refused to speak in class as we should have been conversational by then. My class wasn't. It messed me up for the rest of my classes and I gave up on being an interpreter.
I guess I lucked out. My high school French teacher went to France every summer.
@@sarasolomon4812 this reminds me of a story an old school friend told me. She was born in the Netherlands but came to live here in New Zealand at the age of 8. When she returned to the Netherlands with her family 8 years later, one of her fellow students - a boy - tried to "help" her with her English studies. She told him that she had just spent 8 years in an English speaking country and could speak it fluently. 😂
Old money tends to be kinder to servants than the newly rich.
Certainly in fiction, yes. In reality? Less often. They preferred not to see the majority of their servants and there were no retirement plans but they did have more practise in being professional.
Before she went to France and became Marie Curie, Maria Sklodowska left her home in Warsaw to work as a governess with a rich country family, in order to help finance her older sister’s medical studies at the Sorbonne, where she hoped to study physics. (The University of Warsaw, where their brother studied, was closed to women). We are talking the latter part of the 19th century here, not the Regency period, and things were slightly different as far as the profession of a governess went. I’m pretty sure that Marie didn’t teach ‘accomplishments’ (there might have be seperate instruction on those). Young boys and girls were taught together and there must have been some form of standardisation because the home education was done with the view of passing an exam. Perhaps an entrance exam to an elite boarding school in a city? It seems that the social standing of governesses hadn’t improved, though. Marie Curie’s daughter, Eve Curie, writes that in the evening, when she was on her own time, her own studies were just as likely to be interrupted by the lady of the house asking if she ‘would be so kind as to come down and ask Uncle Felix to teach her to play whist’. So I guess that was another one of duties of a governess: entertaining boring relatives.
By the way, Marie did do the ‘governess cliche’ when she and the oldest son (not one of her students) fell in love and planned to get married. The young man told his parents his happiness and that was the end of Marie’s career as a governess!
oh yes. I read this so long back. forgotten about it.Marie Curie. One foot in a world where a governess is so poorly treated, other foot in a world where a woman could be a foremost scientist of her time...
Actually Marie and her sister Bronia decided to work as governesses to finance their education. First it was Marie's turn to give a half of her wage to her sister and also to help their old father.
this video single-handedly created a whole new novel idea for me. thank you Ellie
Aw! Yay! New novel ideas are the best!
A big point you could have expanded upon was that women who were without a husband and father also couldn't rely on their brothers or any other relations. At best they were charity cases and at worst they were burdens. Jane Austen was lucky that her brothers were at least somewhat helpful in terms of upkeep. And it was lucky that she could at least get money from her writing.
One book that's almost never mentioned and goes into a governess's life much more deeply is Agnes Grey. It has almost all the problems for governesses in there, old vs new money, parents undermining the governess in front of the children, uneasy position in the household, even parents who aren't all that concerned with their children (ie daughters) learning much, so long as they look good in front of suitors, the daughters themselves taking over that attitude, but later confiding in the governess that they're very unhappy in their rich marriage.
Its funny to think of how much governesses changed over time. During the Tudor era, for example, they were simply live-in-nannies (with Elizabeth I's governesses for example being more of her surrogate mothers than her teachers) and it was only over time that the position became the live-in-teacher
My grandmother was from upper class (not England)... I guess she calculated that marrying a commoner from a different country was a better option than becoming a governer... My granddad died when my dad was young so I never knew him, but even when I was little I was in awe of her embroidery and lace making skills upright posture and grace - even complainig about the pain she suffered when she had cancer was below for her ladylike behaviour!
I never questioned about my grandma adopting several boys during WW2 but now I wonder if she was offered money to foster them and later to adopt them? I know that she did get a small pension from her fortune but it was obviously not enough. I don't think she ever had a job but was always working, even when terminally ill, so in that respect she could have been a governess after all. She learned to paint with her mouth at over 70 yrs old, when her her cancer caused her to lose the use of her hands!
I don't have any upper class relatives: she had no brothers and so the family line ended with her. I would have liked to know more of my grandmother's family line but I was only little when she died and I couldn't speak any of the languages she knew. I am not sorry for not being a poor cousin of an upper class family but I would have liked to know more about her family from her just like I do about the other side of my family.
Which country was she from? Just out of curiosity
There was also the issue that the class of women who could be governesses were also vulnerable to becoming some man's mistress. They went out into families and were accessible by the men attached to the families. In "Anna Karenina" the event that sets off the plot is that Anna's brother has been found out in an affair with a pretty French woman who had been his children's former governess. Anna has to come to Moscow from St. Petersburg to smooth things over between her brother and his wife and that is where she becomes more closely aquatinted with Count Vronsky.
I am surprised you did not mention Agnes Grey by Anne Brontë which was an exposé of the plight of governesses in Regency England. It was puportedly based on Anne's own experiences as a governess. I figure you must have read it. Cheers, Russ
Mrs. Bennet still both could & should have taught the Bennet sisters the proper way to behave in society,too. She just doesn't seem to have bothered, or never learned, herself. Her brother's wife behaved much better than she did, and he was in trade.
Although I am not a fan of Mrs Bennet, I wonder if she could have. She is not exactly the epitome of proper behaviour in society herself, so your question if she never learned herself seems valid. Besides, there is also Mr Bennet, he lacked quite a lot in the upbringing of his daughters, as well as the treatment of his wife, which was hardly a good example for his daughters. Although Mr Bennet does not seem to be a malicious man, he ridicules his daughters and wife not only within the company of his family, he also does it in public. Everyone around him seems to forgive him for this disrespectful behaviour, or maybe they have simply grown used to it or something like that, however this does not help anyone in developing their behaviour. As parents Mrs and Mr Bennet are far from the best examples, despite both having the best interest for their daughters at heart.😌
Mrs. Bennet didn't know any better herself. Her family was in trade, and I think it was just good looks and good luck that got her into a position to marry into the gentry. Mr. Gardiner, as the only son, probably received a better education and was around higher class people than his sister was; she might not have had a governess herself growing up, so she didn't realize why her daughters would need one.
Good point.
Jane Austen seemed to be of the common opinion that marrying up to another sphere of life was not usually a good thing, and one part of it being not having the manners needed. Mrs Bennet is really an example of this.
My, governesses had it worse than I thought! I feel really bad for the children in those situations, too, though - growing up in a world where closeness or interaction with your mother is not encouraged. Children need emotional and physical closeness, and they form a really strong attachment to the first one person who is there for them and covers those needs. Ideally the mother, but if not, it might be a nanny or governess. This would be really important in their development. However, the more the children loved the governess, the bigger risk of the mother getting jealous, of course - and if she then took it out on the governess, it would be awful for the kids. Even if she sided with them against the nanny, it would be really confusing. Worst case scenario is if she'd get so jealous she's send the nanny/governess away. That might actually damage a young child for life, because this is their main attachment figure we're talking about here, i.e. their "mother". I've heard of cases like this, even in modern days among very rich British families. I can't think of a more unnatural or misunderstood rule than for it to be "unladylike" or "low class" to seek closeness with your own children!
This was how it was for Winston Churchill. He was much closer with his nanny than his mother till he was grown, but his mother wasn't jealous of the emotional support and connection young Winston had with his nanny. As you say, children need emotional support, and if the mother is not inclined to give it, why would she be jealous? It was very common in the Victorian Age for children to have a 'family' relationship with their nurse/governess, and care for her when she was old. In these cases, I doubt the governess was unhappy, with children who loved her so. They often talked of their charges as 'their' children, and most mothers didn't care. I suppose there were some cases of jealousy, but I cannot think of any real-life examples I have ever heard of.
I hadn't even considered the difference between working for middle class vs. upper class, other than the money factor. I'm re-reading Emma right now so it's definitely another reason why Jane Fairfax deciding to work for Mrs. Elton's no doubt terrible relatives is a pretty desperate move. I wonder, though, if Jane would have had a chance to get into a better, upper class household if she had waited and that was essentially her impulsive post-breakup decision, or if it was a good idea for her to take whatever position was available?
Edit: Also, the whole "you think girls are dumb but you refuse to teach them" was a common criticism of society in early feminist literature. I know Margaret Cavendish mentioned that in one of her many books (in the 1600s), and I believe Mary Wollstonecraft also mentioned it in Vindication of the Rights of Women.
As a modern day Nanny, with the exception of education. (As most Nannies I know are surprisingly well educated even without college degrees)
98% of these Governess Problems Still exist.
Like. For real
ESPECIALLY the mother jealousy and the side eye snark assuming the nanny wants to sleep with the husband.
The governess stereotype reminds me of the "pick-a-little, talk-a-little" scene from "The Music Man". Marian Paroo, the town's low-status piano teacher and librarian, is accused by the other, higher-status women in the town of being a gold-digger, and having an affair with her deceased rich employer (?), who left "all [his] books to her" in his will.
It's strange that I never noticed Meg being treated differently because she was a governess. I thought that the only reason why she was sometimes mistreated was that she was poor. I did feel that with Jane Eyre and Agnes Grey this position was a part of their identities, I felt the loneliness and hopelessness of their situations, but Meg March always seemed to be a much more independent heroine. Could it be because she was Amerian, or because she lived at home?
It’s very much an American thing. Governesses had a much easier time in America because work and class were seen differently at the time than in England. That’s why it’s also notable that the girl snubbing her is British.
@@EllieDashwood, oh, right! I haven't seen this exact adaptation and I don't remember this moment in the books, but it makes sense. Thank you for clarifying it! Yes, it looks like for Meg it was just a job, and though she did rely on the money, she was a free person otherwise.
Meg's employer was fairly decent to her, but her job was no cinch. It's been a while since I read the book, but I remember being impressed when I read it as a child that Meg's employer didn't even give her lunch!
In addition, Meg still had her family nearby as a support system. A mother, three sisters and a crotchety rich old great-aunt.
Meg also doesn’t STAY a governess; she’s married ar 21. We might see her situation a bit differently if she hadn’t, and was 41 or 51 and still a governess.
I remember reading Jane Fairfax speaking about becoming a governess and wondering why she seemed so sad about it, there was something in the way she spoke that struck me. Thank you so much for this! Amazing!
This was great! Also, I really enjoy how you pull clips from different versions of the movie adaptations instead of just using the same film. I hope you continue doing different types of characters in literature in future videos! I'd love to see one on the heiress (sort of the antithesis to the governess, no? But certainly not without her own problems).
Aw! Thank you. And that’s a great idea! I’ll add Heiresses down on my ideas list.
I'm loving this video (this is my third comment!), and I've been thinling about the differences of employed by a wealthy aristocratic family, or a middle/upper-class family with newer wealth.
In the aristocratic family, although they value the education the governess would give, the Lady of the house knew that her daughters would grow up to emulate her, not the governess.
In the middle-class family it was very different. The lady of the house wanted her daughters to have poise and "good breeding", but knowing that she herself would never have that level of social grace must have stung. To know your daughters did not want to be like you, but BETTER than you, and the governess was teaching them how to supersede their mother socially, may have bred a lot of resentment. But at the same time, you NEEDED the governess to help your daughters get ahead in life! She may have even been watching the governess out of the corner of her eye, trying to subtly pick up tricks and tips to improve her own etiquette.
I was sick a lot when I was growing up so I read a lot of novels (mostly Jane Austen and Victoria Holt (aka Jean Plaidy plus a few other pseudonyms) and I did a lot of embroidery, crochet, and needlepoint. I also went to a private school from 1st to 9th grade) I thought a lot about if I had to live back then that my only two choices were to be a governess or a companion.
side note: In High School home ec class my teacher knew nothing about hand sewing since I knew a lot about it I taught that portion of the class. It was my elective for all 3 of my high school years.
This was a great introduction to one of the lesser discussed aspects of Regency and Victorian societies. Thanks!
In fact, I had initially thought the life of a governess as described in _Jane Eyre_ was easy enough - they get to live in big houses, they just need to sit around and teach kids, servants and maids of the house take care of her other needs - what greater comfort does a governess need? That was until I read _Agnes Grey_ and _Turn of the screw._ Especially the Anne Brontë novel, which had just the kind of mother-governess jealousy you described, how that came in the way of enforcing discipline on the kids, and the awkward position of belonging neither to the the host family nor the servants. The mental stress induced by isolation, navigating such domestic politics and inability to meet the expectations of the family must have been great indeed. And to make it worse, if the governess happened to offend the host family in some manner (even unintentionally) it might be difficult to get a good position elsewhere as a new family who wished to hire her would have tried to gather information about her character from the previous family that employed her.
It was hard enough. 🙄
Yes! Her life was so hard! 😭😭😭
I'm glad to see someone else mention "Agnes Grey." Charlotte Bronte mentioned that one of her employers also expected her to do endless stacks of sewing.
Jane is lucky. She has a single charge. She and Adele get along and Adele is reasonable well behaved. She gets along with its Mrs Fairfax, who is the senior servant and de facto lady of the house and she gets along with Mr Rochester. She also only has to instruct Adele which is not particularly trying work
@@Cybele1986 True. Jane Eyre had it relatively easy at Thornfield Hall. Except for the relative isolation of a governess's life, that is. But I guess she was pretty much used to it from childhood. Agnes Grey had a different ordeal altogether to confront.
It depends on one's temperament. Working in the education system, I am so often surprised and shocked by the high percentage of teachers - and parents! - who don't seem to even LIKE children, they can't relate to them, they don't know how to handle them. Why, then, are they even doing this job in a society where we have unlimited options? When you really love children, the stress is completely worth it. The challenge of dealing with difficult characters (if you really love kids, the brattier they are, the more you love them), the diplomatic navigation of the school hierarchy and frustrating regulations NO ONE understands - it leaves you with such a sense of accomplishment. I'm sure that governesses who were just working for their salary were miserable, just like so many teachers today, but the governesses who actually cared about children and education - like Jane Eyre, who wanted to found her OWN school - I think they would have been proud of what they did, as I am. (And the money is just as rubbish today, I assure you.)
I think the worst of the governess life was probably the same as that of any other walk of society except the very financially secure and well connected: lack of security and loneliness without a partner or family. Servants, soldiers, unmarried daughters, and poor curates and lawyers all experienced the same hardships. They should have got together back then and formed a society for themselves!
I wasn't allowed to say no to the child I was looking after as a nanny and ended up caring for the housework alongside the child. It was also very isolating as I was live-in working 10 hours a day 6 days a week for very low pay.
Very good point about Lydia's wayward behaviour not being corrected by a governess!
So interesting. As a teacher I must say I prefer my current job to what it would have been in that time period.
I didn't know about all the fears surrounding governesses! It's helped me recontextualize Behind a Mask by Louisa May Alcott since it touches on all those fears
Man, as a father with 2 young daughters I am so glad they live in the 21st century instead of the 19h….
Clara Copperfield was a governess in a family whom David Copperfield (sr.) came to visit. This led to their courtship, marriage, and conception of the hero of the story, which is a good example of one of the scenarios--perhaps the best--that you describe, Ellie! Love your channel!
Can we PLEASE get a wardrobe video because I am obsessed with your style!!!
If I was a governess I would focus the education at the "air and manner of their walk" and just make the girls go around the biggest room of the house hahaha Ms Bingle taught me well!
😂😂😂 I like this plan!
This is such a wonderful, in-depth explanation of the what, how and why of governesses. I could not help but think that, due to the status of your typical governess, i.e., neither belonging in upper society or in that of the lower, that if there was a true class of such governesses today, they would all band together on a Facebook group to commiserate with each other. Bravo, great video!
Loved this talk. It brought to life the desperate and precarious circumstances that governesses faced.👏❤️
Love your insights and breakdowns. So glad to see you regularly uploading
Aw! Thank you so much!
Being a Governess sounded quite nice! It's not manual labour, dawn until dusk. It sounds like a Spinster helping with family chores and looking after nieces and nephews but with the advantage of receiving a wage!! Even if you weren't part of the family, you were still on a par with tutors, and the housekeeper. It hadn't even occurred to me that they could band together to buy a school building! I think that's the path I would have chosen. In fact, I know it is.
You explain these aspects of Regency life so well. Thank you!
Aw! Thank you for watching!
I could have, maybe, taught art and art history but I'm not a great teacher. I get on tangents too often. I wouldn't say all men were thought smart from the schooling they received. Example: Mr. Rushworth! OMG. He couldn't even get Edmond to say anything nice about him. Poor guy. What went wrong there? I'm with Jane Fairfax about governesses, there is plenty of time and opportunity to end of in a bad situation, why hurry? Mrs. Elton should just sit in a corner and not speak. She is an accident waiting to happen! Since Mrs. Elton doesn't think highly of governesses why would she want to put someone in that position so quickly? UGH. It's not like she would have been able to hire Jane and keep her in Highbury. Thanks for sharing.
Fantastic video! I just thrifted a Jane Eyre book and I knew it was a sign that I needed to read it, this comes up on my recommended list! This is so helpful to give me perspective and understanding without spoilers for reading J. E. Thank you!
I went on an amazing walking tour before covid hit and the subject was Women who had gone through apprenticeships. It was really interesting to find out that women were able to be part of a guild and start and run huge businesses. They were wealthy women. That is the sort of woman I would like to be in history. I would love to see a tv show about these women, the guilds and the companies they created. They had an amazing influence on London commercially (opened business, factories and had their own apprentices), the actual structure of society as there was a woman who's company was famous for creating fake concrete and being part of society.
Really good video. I think that you covered comprehensively the different aspects of this subject. I specifically liked the point that a governess could end up being from a higher class than the people she was working for because of the expansion of the middle classes. That had never occurred to me before and it never occurred to me that Miss Taylor may have been from a higher class than Mrs Elton, a delicious point to consider. It explains some of Mrs Elton's insecurities which drive her character so extensively. I have read all the books that you mentioned but it's always great to consider the characters from a different and therefore a deeper angle so thank you for that.
I really enjoy your deep-dives into different topics. Thank you Ellie.
Fascinating. And your name is so apt for the topic, Dashwood. Thanks for your hard work.xx
I worked as a governess in outback Australia governess or home tutors are still common. And I still believe that the mother makes or breaks how well your time as governess goes
So good that you started uploading videos on a regular basis 🥳
😃 Aw! Thank you!!!
Wow, this video makes me realize that being a governess was tougher than I thought.
Still, was it worse than ending up in an unhappy marriage?
For me, I think I would have more difficulties with dancing and socializing at parties to find a husband than with becoming a governess.
But naturally, I'm looking at this from a 21rst century perspective and can't really judge people for what they chose to do back then.
Depends how unhappy the marriage you refer to. You would have financial and social security is a marriage, unless the husband was a drunkard and a gambler which happened. Your husband could sexually abuse you but so could your employer and that would come with more shame and ruin if you got pregnant. Life could be hard work for governess or easier and same with being married but it’s more likely to work less married if you married from this class, basically you weren’t supposed to work at all. You would have your own children married but pregnancy could be difficult or maybe the governess would end up raising them which would upset you. But they would still always be yours.
Excellent video!! This has been my favorite out of all the ones I watched!
As a modern day nanny this is so relatable!
I just discovered your channel and I'm a absolutely loving it. Thank you for putting this info out into the world.
Thank you!!! And welcome to the community! 😃😃😃
I really enjoy watching your videos because you are so enthusiastic and we are both fond of Jane Austen's works ✨
Hi, Ellie. I am glad that I have found your channel, it is a bubble of my favourite topics: history and books. I am interested to know more about 19th century, Regency and Victorian era, so I tend to read classic authors of those times and I watch your videos. I am reading Jane Eyre and this video was very helpful and interesting to see how history and literature depicted governesses. Thank you and congrats on your subscribers.
It’s been a while since I watched the Emma miniseries. I like the clips you showed to prove your points. I didn’t consider their social ranking much. In Jane Eyre she was definitely treated much differently as a governess. Typically in film adaptations they only show governesses in the background but never really delve into their lives. Great video!
Thanks! They really are a fascinating topic.
Terrific. So well-rounded!
😃😃😃 Thank you!
I just discovered you and am working my way through your fascinating videos! How did I not know all these things after reading and watching Jane Austen my whole life? And about governesses- years later there is the whole pillar to the Forsyte Saga story when Jolyon leaves his wife for the governess and is disinherited!
Thanks for sharing the video, the analysis of the topic and for the subs!
Thank you! I've read Jane Eyre multiple times (ten? more?) but it was really hard for me initially to understand the class system and why some people looked down on governesses. Also, hard to imagine a life where one doesn't work.
Thanks, as the rare male who has read over one hundred Regency-era romances-from authors like Anne Gracie, Laura Kinsale, Joanna Bourne, and Madeline Hunter-I must congratulate you on your very extensive knowledge of Regency-era British society! An impressive sociological achievement indeed. (Likely you're already long familiar with a modern American version of governess stories called 'The Nanny Diaries'!)
Absolutely been loving your historical/legal/social spiritual explanations of literature! In light of your videos, SO MUCH in Vanity Fair now makes sense. Would you be able to do an explanation of Vanity Fair, because I feel like the movie vs series vs books offer very drastically different views, even between the 2004 & 2018 that 14 years seem to show Becky in a different role entirely.
By example I discover your site. Thank for this great video. I enjoyed it very much. Now I understand the meaning of a governess much better.
Excellent video, thank you! I agree that Miss Taylor/Mrs Weston definitely had the best deal out of the famous literary governesses
Thank you. I think this video would give me some basis for understanding Jane Eyre better when i venture reading the book.
This is what I learned today:
1. There is a difference between a Nurse, a Nanny, and a Governess. Maybe I didn't know this because I'm a middle-class American. Or maybe because of Mary Poppins. I know Mary Poppins was set in a time-period much after the Regency Period--but I'm American & get confused about these things, ya know.
Q: If a family had multiple children spread out a few years (which is common enough), would they employ a nurse, a nanny, and/or a governess? Seems to tighten the budget a bit.
2. That Governesses were hired only for girls? Mary Poppins, again, is probably the cause for my confusion. I have read a few novels set in Regency where the subject was the governess, but I don't remember the description of the children.
Q1: If a family had multiple children, spread out over a few years, with both girls & boys--Would they have to employ a Nurse, a Nanny, a Governess, and a Tutor? Wow.
Seems like the economy was set up so that it NEEDED middle & upper class families to fail. Please consider doing a video on what happens to the sons when a middle & upper class family loses their means of income. I see it implied in the novels, but people always comment about the daughters having no options because they were girls--as if the sons had so many options open to them. But, I think they too had limited options too.
So nurse maids and nannies were used from a very young age (birth) and would continue to take care of the children’s basic needs even after they were old enough for a governess (so the governess would teach them but the nurse maid would give them baths, etc). Governesses could also educate and be over young boys too before they were old enough to be sent off to a boarding school or have their own tutor. And yes, all of this was very expensive.
And that’s a great video idea! I’ll jot it down. 😃 It is true though that sons had many more options for securing income than daughters though. But, it doesn’t mean they LIKED any of those options. 😂
@@EllieDashwood Did these positions change over time? I remember reading about how on Tudor times the royal governess was basically a live-in nanny with a different title (and technically she also had to deal with managing the household since she headed it, so I don't know how it worked for people not of the upper aristocracy and royalty) instead of a live-in-tutor (the ones I know of also were married and many times were related to their charges, so I imagine this also changed interactions), but I have no idea how much nurses or nannies' work changed over the centuries
I love the clip from "Man from Snowy River".
"My daughter could end up like her!"
All the more reason to treat her WELL. Treat her the way you would want your daughter's employers to treat her, should she ever find herself in that position.
That's how I was raised.
Off topic from the point of the video... but I love that you used the clip from "The Man From Snowy River!" My favorite movie!
Thanks for the interesting video. Another lesser known book about a governess is Agnes Grey by Anne Bronte. She presents a fairly bleak view of life as a governess but with a romantic, hopeful ending to the book.
You need to collaborate with the guy over at Atun-Shei films. You both love dressing up and acting out characters to make you case, and both of you are on point with your historical footnotes. Though admittingly, he goes quit a bit more theater than most historians.
I never expected to see North & South and Man From Snowy River in the same video! Which, funnily enough, I remember there being a mention or two of a governess for Jessica in Man From Snowy River
You speaks beautifully ❤️
that was very interesting, thank you! :)
Aw! Thank you!
I just discovered your channel so I am unsure whether you have you covered the topic of gentlemen. Anne Brontë’s “The Tenant of Wildfell Hall” gives a realistic depiction of the lifestyles of the worst of them. It would be interesting to hear the explanations, backgrounds and examples you could give in regards to this often ignored part of Edwardian, Georgian and Victorian life.
This has been an interesting video
Hi Ellie! Have you ever heard of the historical fiction novel "The Exiles"? It's wonderful! One of the main characters is a governess who is wrongly accused of stealing and is shipped to Australia as a prisoner. Her time as a governess in the novel is short, but her struggle of not being accepted by either class is so heartbreaking and integral to her arrest. The book is fascinating.
I ❤️ North and South! Although it had little to do with the topic. But I would love to see you do a whole video on North and South.
This explains why, in Georgette Heyer's "The Nonesuch", when Miss Trent confessed that she was paid 150 pounds a year, it was so major.
As a teacher I see some parallels between my job and the job of a governess. 😅😭 E.g. I much too soon attach myself to my students.
Great video!
Very nicely done :)
It must have sucked to be a governess, taking orders from the ladies of these houses knowing full well that it could have been them giving the orders if they'd have found a man. Now they work like common drudges and have to watch someone else have it all.
Eh, not if you like helping people and being better-mannered than everyone else around you. Builds self esteem, or at any rate so I have found.
Recommend *Agnes Grey* by Anne Bronte. Really shows you what Ellie is talking about.
I am loving your videos! Soooo interesting and as a lover of all the authors you duscuss just makes me want to re-read them all. Thanks!
I enjoy your videos! :) Have you read Georgette Heyer's books? A few of her heroines are the "genteel lady in reduced circumstances" type.
Miss Taylor/Mrs. Weston really lucked out being a governess for the Woodhouses
So true!!!
What an informative video.
Aw, thank you!
It looks like the governess stigma was alive & well in Russia too. Anna Karenina starts with the drama of a husband being found out that he was having an affair with their French governess.
You HAVE to do a video / videos on Wives and Daughters. It’s my favorite series after Pride and Prejudice.