I totally get you. I think for some of my hobbies, i want to understand the big picture of the industry/community. I love words, fandom, and anime so i love to see the whole landscape. I like to see the variety of how people engage with fandom and the sheer innovation and even amateur glee. which means i will run into bad things and be able to joke about bad things and put those bad things in a larger context. Im even endeared to bad things. Im invested in the entire range of experience. But for other hobbies like shows, i only want to cut to the good stuff, i dont want to waste time on bad things because cinema is tedious to me. I want to have the best time as much as possible. I think that's the difference for me. There are some things i enjoy enough that i want to know the landscape, and other things where i want to have a more targeted experience.
I have recently picked up a few of the 'new instagram witchcraft' books out of curiosity. One of them is the most beautiful looking book I have seen but it is full of inconsistencies and historical inaccuracies. However it is interesting to read what a new generation of witches are beginning with so I can understand their viewpoint. Paganism and Wicca are my spiritual backbone so I want to understand as many aspects of it as I possibly can and that includes the 'instawitch' phenomenon as much as ancient Celtic practices. Reading these new books and being aware of 'influencers' also keeps me up-to-date with what matters to young people today (i'm in my mid forties) and stops me from being dismissive.
For me there have been times where I read a bad book but it described something that I couldn't figure out in better books. Like how it is worded can make a huge difference. A great example is trying to figure out how to go about pathworking in a way that worked for me. I read books an articles, watch vids, listened to podcasts and nothing clicked. But in one of my less favored witchcraft books I owned described it in a way that made me realized pathworking is basically the same way I always daydreamed or wrote fiction with out control of any of the outside forces or characters I thought about. When I realized what it was I felt totally stupid. It was right in front of my face and I always done pathworking but never realized it.
Some very good points! I agree, I like to read many different things, and I have gotten ideas from “bad” books, it makes you examine why it’s not great and can inspire us to share our own counterpoints.
One of the first covens I was in actually set us the task of reading "bad books" so that we could critique them and explain specifically why they might be considered bad. I thought it was a pretty good exercise. I don't keep myself quite as up to date on what is trending these days but I do generally feel we can learn something of interest from a bad book, even if it's not what the author was trying to teach us. I also agree that it's interesting to know what other people are practising. I am interested to see what witchcraft looks like for young people these days and how it compares with my teen witch in the 90's days. I appreciate your reviews of trending books personally, helps to keep me in the loop and saves me a lot of time.
When I first started exploring witchcraft, I read a couple of Lisa Chamberlain books. But I just couldn't finish them. I feel they didn't have heart. I'm an editor and get reading fatigue so I struggle to read much in my spare time. That means I stick to books I get a lot out of. I love how you take the time to keep informed about our community.
Watching your videos is always time well spent and this one is no exception. I am very proud to be part of this online community of readers and interested, intelligent, inquisitive pagans. We benefit from having voices of critical thinkers and supportive leaders such as yourself.
I love books and I love to learn everything I can get my hands on. It's like I need to learn and to keep my brain active. I have noticed Lisa Chamberlain is also on Book Depository as well. And I think I have a couple of them on my wish list to get a later date and I Harmony Nice's book on my wish list which is coming up for me to get sometime this year. You are right and reading is good for you as well. Good for the mind and it is also relaxing as well.
There are a lot of books out there, that pertain to be witchcraft books. That are clearly not, most are rubbish. I read witchcraft books but am selective on what i get and where from. I dont get them from amazon, these are basicly commercial rubbish trying to get money out of people. I tend to use the atlantic bookshop and treadwells bookshop in london. They have loads of decent books writen by witches not want to bees. Hope it helps
I have been very hesitant about buying anymore books on witchcraft. It really feels like I’m reading the same books. I am considering buying yours however.
I read everything as well and I choose to do that because there are nuggets in every book that I can use.....whether it is an insight to how someone with differing ideas views the world or misinformation that keeps getting circulated every few years. If it is the latter, then I look for the correct information so that if someone I meet brings up said incorrectness, I may have the opportunity to then steer them to something else. Also, I just straight out believe knowledge is power and since I am in my mid 40s, I gather that knowledge by reading. Plus, I just love books.
I have read a lot of good books, started even more bad books and find that my opinion of value depends very much on how it impacts my thought process and practice. Curiosity generally is my motivation but as you mentioned the “surprises” are the treats along the way and they can come from the text or the inspiration spurred by contrasting thought. It’s fairly easy to know the good authors when you read them because you keep coming back for refreshment by finding both old and new ideas. This happens both on the first read or on the sixth pass. Authors I consider in this list are you, Christopher Penczak (who breaks my brain with simple words), Silver RavenWolf, uncle Bucky and Scott Cunningham.
I really do agree with your first statement, but for me that's my secondary reason. My main reason for reading "bad" books is.... how do I know it's bad if I don't read it? Or at least try to?
We may follow different paths but we are soul sisters when it comes to reading. I love reading everything because I want to learn all the paths and all the stuff, soak it all up and learn, whether I apply it or not to my own way. I know what you are saying about trying to connect to other ages. At first I didn't read or see any of the Harry Potter movies, but after my nephews spent every holiday gathering chatting about them I realized if I wanted to be a good aunt, I needed to get into it too! Not bad books by any means, I love them now, but I get that association. I always feel I learn something from any book I read, not matter how "good" or "bad" they are! I just find it all so interesting!
I use my libraries too. There’s a lot out there and a lot is just repeating the same things over but there is a different flavor from author to author. Someone told me that unless the literature was written a long time ago, it wasn’t worth reading. I’m glad I ignored the sentiment lol
This is such a nice perspective. I love to read and while I have no problems experimenting with other genres, I have always been a little rigid with the craft - choosing books that are more mainstream and commercial and more "known". But recently I purchased a book that had a few poor reviews, because it was on sale and I found it to have some sections that were entirely different and not present in the other craft books i've read before. And I actually enjoyed those parts, despite the book being classified as "bad". I will take a leaf out of your book and start to read all the material I can get my hands on. And I agree about the craft being marketed as something for women and not other genders. It's extremely exclusionary and discriminatory to brand the craft that way.
I totally agree with everything you said. As a author you're almost required to be a prolific reader. As far as bad books even bad books may have a line or two of wisdom in them. I've read 300 Page books that taught me absolutely nothing but one sentence has made me reexamine something I already knew. Even a fiction book can have an influence on your path or train of thought. As far as the feminization of the practice I'm sorry to see that's coming back. It was a serious issues in the late 80's and early 90's. But then again these are people who don't understand the work in the first place. Balance is all. So Mote It Be.
I'm a very firm believer in that every book has some redeeming quality. I learn something from every bad book I read, and they are usually pretty quick reads too. :)
“I’m seeing a lot of gender essentialism.” - It seems to me that gender essentialism would be hard to remove from Wicca and neo-paganism more broadly. a) There seems to be a lot of hyper-feminine and hyper-masculine images of deities that are popular in the community. b) I've heard many people say that they were attracted to Wicca because there are female qualities and there are male qualities, and it only makes sense that there is at least one female deity and at least one male deity to have these qualities. c) For the Feminist Spirituality branch of Wicca, it’s important to their beliefs that there are certain qualities that are feminine and certain certain qualities that are masculine and the former are good and the latter are bad.
I know ppl who use the online library thing. Personally the screen of A phone or computer etc is annoying to my eyes if I stare at it long so I mostly stick with hard or paperbacks. Also very excited to read your next two books Thorn.
Thorn Mooney: pursuing awesome nuggets for us all. Great video, and I actually do this with my kids too. Never thought about doing it more generally. Do you have a video about gender existentialism in pagan/witchy circles? I am finding myself less and less able with menstruating human circles, but also conflicted about working with cis men because of previous trauma. Obviously there is a lot of grey area in between, but thinking about this a lot lately. I don't want to be part of the problem if i can help it (i mean, my existence is a problem but you know).
Oh ok! Sounds like it's your way of keeping your finger on the " pulse" of your comunity. If I am understanding correctly. That makes alot of sense. Thank you.
Please don't take any of this as an insult, but in some of your older videos you said to stop recommending bad books. Now though it sounds like you're saying to read all books even if they are bad books. Its a bit confusing to some. My understanding is that you should read all books after you have the basics down, but I would like if you would explain a little bit better on these two topics (don't recommend bad books vs. read all books even if they're bad).
Not at all! I hold both positions. I believe in reading as much as possible, but I also think I that teachers and people in places of influence need to recommend better books. Most people don’t have the resources or inclination to read everything, and when they approach their community for support, I hope that community can guide them to the most accurate texts available. Reading a “bad book” might give me personal insight, but I don’t recommend them to seekers if I can help it. Does that make sense?
You argument seems to be more about taking in the information in the "bad" books rather than if you enjoy the writing style/ message/ whatever? Or am I getting that wrong? Funnily enough, I recently returned a book to Amazon by a high profile Druid because the whole thing felt like a giant ad for not inexpensive their Druid courses.
Yeah, I think that's fair! I think of myself as "doing anthropology" when I read, so I learn a lot about the author. Sometimes I don't like the writing style or the message! But it always tells me something about *them* and I think that's valuable by itself (I love knowing how other people practice).
I have to schedule time to read, and I protect my lunch breaks fiercely! I also have to grab a few minutes here and there as they happen: waiting rooms, work breaks, being the passenger in a car, etc. I always have a book and notebook on me.
You need to see both sides hence why you should read the so called bad books. Plus you can't judge a book you haven't read based on the views and opinions of others.
If you don't read the "bad" books you don't know if it's bad or *why* it's bad.
Good point, and if youu don't read bad books you don't have a base line for calling a book good either! :)
I totally get you. I think for some of my hobbies, i want to understand the big picture of the industry/community. I love words, fandom, and anime so i love to see the whole landscape. I like to see the variety of how people engage with fandom and the sheer innovation and even amateur glee. which means i will run into bad things and be able to joke about bad things and put those bad things in a larger context. Im even endeared to bad things. Im invested in the entire range of experience. But for other hobbies like shows, i only want to cut to the good stuff, i dont want to waste time on bad things because cinema is tedious to me. I want to have the best time as much as possible. I think that's the difference for me. There are some things i enjoy enough that i want to know the landscape, and other things where i want to have a more targeted experience.
I have recently picked up a few of the 'new instagram witchcraft' books out of curiosity. One of them is the most beautiful looking book I have seen but it is full of inconsistencies and historical inaccuracies. However it is interesting to read what a new generation of witches are beginning with so I can understand their viewpoint. Paganism and Wicca are my spiritual backbone so I want to understand as many aspects of it as I possibly can and that includes the 'instawitch' phenomenon as much as ancient Celtic practices. Reading these new books and being aware of 'influencers' also keeps me up-to-date with what matters to young people today (i'm in my mid forties) and stops me from being dismissive.
For me there have been times where I read a bad book but it described something that I couldn't figure out in better books. Like how it is worded can make a huge difference. A great example is trying to figure out how to go about pathworking in a way that worked for me. I read books an articles, watch vids, listened to podcasts and nothing clicked. But in one of my less favored witchcraft books I owned described it in a way that made me realized pathworking is basically the same way I always daydreamed or wrote fiction with out control of any of the outside forces or characters I thought about. When I realized what it was I felt totally stupid. It was right in front of my face and I always done pathworking but never realized it.
Some very good points! I agree, I like to read many different things, and I have gotten ideas from “bad” books, it makes you examine why it’s not great and can inspire us to share our own counterpoints.
One of the first covens I was in actually set us the task of reading "bad books" so that we could critique them and explain specifically why they might be considered bad. I thought it was a pretty good exercise. I don't keep myself quite as up to date on what is trending these days but I do generally feel we can learn something of interest from a bad book, even if it's not what the author was trying to teach us. I also agree that it's interesting to know what other people are practising. I am interested to see what witchcraft looks like for young people these days and how it compares with my teen witch in the 90's days. I appreciate your reviews of trending books personally, helps to keep me in the loop and saves me a lot of time.
When I first started exploring witchcraft, I read a couple of Lisa Chamberlain books. But I just couldn't finish them. I feel they didn't have heart. I'm an editor and get reading fatigue so I struggle to read much in my spare time. That means I stick to books I get a lot out of. I love how you take the time to keep informed about our community.
Watching your videos is always time well spent and this one is no exception. I am very proud to be part of this online community of readers and interested, intelligent, inquisitive pagans. We benefit from having voices of critical thinkers and supportive leaders such as yourself.
I love books and I love to learn everything I can get my hands on. It's like I need to learn and to keep my brain active.
I have noticed Lisa Chamberlain is also on Book Depository as well. And I think I have a couple of them on my wish list to get a later date and I Harmony Nice's book on my wish list which is coming up for me to get sometime this year.
You are right and reading is good for you as well. Good for the mind and it is also relaxing as well.
This was surprisingly profound and helpful! I think this might be my favorite video of your's.
There are a lot of books out there, that pertain to be witchcraft books. That are clearly not, most are rubbish.
I read witchcraft books but am selective on what i get and where from. I dont get them from amazon, these are basicly commercial rubbish trying to get money out of people.
I tend to use the atlantic bookshop and treadwells bookshop in london.
They have loads of decent books writen by witches not want to bees.
Hope it helps
That is a great point you make about being able to feel into the current flowing in society by the books ,etc that are coming out.
There is value in having a comprehensive view of the field as it currently stands.
Think about books like thorn Mooney
I have been very hesitant about buying anymore books on witchcraft. It really feels like I’m reading the same books. I am considering buying yours however.
I read everything as well and I choose to do that because there are nuggets in every book that I can use.....whether it is an insight to how someone with differing ideas views the world or misinformation that keeps getting circulated every few years. If it is the latter, then I look for the correct information so that if someone I meet brings up said incorrectness, I may have the opportunity to then steer them to something else. Also, I just straight out believe knowledge is power and since I am in my mid 40s, I gather that knowledge by reading. Plus, I just love books.
I have read a lot of good books, started even more bad books and find that my opinion of value depends very much on how it impacts my thought process and practice.
Curiosity generally is my motivation but as you mentioned the “surprises” are the treats along the way and they can come from the text or the inspiration spurred by contrasting thought.
It’s fairly easy to know the good authors when you read them because you keep coming back for refreshment by finding both old and new ideas. This happens both on the first read or on the sixth pass. Authors I consider in this list are you, Christopher Penczak (who breaks my brain with simple words), Silver RavenWolf, uncle Bucky and Scott Cunningham.
Great video, I feel the same way. You are absolutely right about finding nuggets of gold in some of the most ridiculous or mundane texts.
I really do agree with your first statement, but for me that's my secondary reason. My main reason for reading "bad" books is.... how do I know it's bad if I don't read it? Or at least try to?
We may follow different paths but we are soul sisters when it comes to reading. I love reading everything because I want to learn all the paths and all the stuff, soak it all up and learn, whether I apply it or not to my own way. I know what you are saying about trying to connect to other ages. At first I didn't read or see any of the Harry Potter movies, but after my nephews spent every holiday gathering chatting about them I realized if I wanted to be a good aunt, I needed to get into it too! Not bad books by any means, I love them now, but I get that association. I always feel I learn something from any book I read, not matter how "good" or "bad" they are! I just find it all so interesting!
I use my libraries too. There’s a lot out there and a lot is just repeating the same things over but there is a different flavor from author to author. Someone told me that unless the literature was written a long time ago, it wasn’t worth reading. I’m glad I ignored the sentiment lol
This is such a nice perspective. I love to read and while I have no problems experimenting with other genres, I have always been a little rigid with the craft - choosing books that are more mainstream and commercial and more "known". But recently I purchased a book that had a few poor reviews, because it was on sale and I found it to have some sections that were entirely different and not present in the other craft books i've read before. And I actually enjoyed those parts, despite the book being classified as "bad". I will take a leaf out of your book and start to read all the material I can get my hands on. And I agree about the craft being marketed as something for women and not other genders. It's extremely exclusionary and discriminatory to brand the craft that way.
I totally agree with everything you said. As a author you're almost required to be a prolific reader. As far as bad books even bad books may have a line or two of wisdom in them. I've read 300 Page books that taught me absolutely nothing but one sentence has made me reexamine something I already knew. Even a fiction book can have an influence on your path or train of thought. As far as the feminization of the practice I'm sorry to see that's coming back. It was a serious issues in the late 80's and early 90's. But then again these are people who don't understand the work in the first place. Balance is all. So Mote It Be.
I'm a very firm believer in that every book has some redeeming quality. I learn something from every bad book I read, and they are usually pretty quick reads too. :)
“I’m seeing a lot of gender essentialism.” - It seems to me that gender essentialism would be hard to remove from Wicca and neo-paganism more broadly. a) There seems to be a lot of hyper-feminine and hyper-masculine images of deities that are popular in the community. b) I've heard many people say that they were attracted to Wicca because there are female qualities and there are male qualities, and it only makes sense that there is at least one female deity and at least one male deity to have these qualities. c) For the Feminist Spirituality branch of Wicca, it’s important to their beliefs that there are certain qualities that are feminine and certain certain qualities that are masculine and the former are good and the latter are bad.
I know ppl who use the online library thing. Personally the screen of A phone or computer etc is annoying to my eyes if I stare at it long so I mostly stick with hard or paperbacks.
Also very excited to read your next two books Thorn.
Thorn Mooney: pursuing awesome nuggets for us all. Great video, and I actually do this with my kids too. Never thought about doing it more generally. Do you have a video about gender existentialism in pagan/witchy circles? I am finding myself less and less able with menstruating human circles, but also conflicted about working with cis men because of previous trauma. Obviously there is a lot of grey area in between, but thinking about this a lot lately. I don't want to be part of the problem if i can help it (i mean, my existence is a problem but you know).
Oh ok! Sounds like it's your way of keeping your finger on the " pulse" of your comunity. If I am understanding correctly. That makes alot of sense. Thank you.
Hi Thorn!
Hi! 🎃
11:12 "the Way" **an aura of light appears**
Please don't take any of this as an insult, but in some of your older videos you said to stop recommending bad books. Now though it sounds like you're saying to read all books even if they are bad books. Its a bit confusing to some. My understanding is that you should read all books after you have the basics down, but I would like if you would explain a little bit better on these two topics (don't recommend bad books vs. read all books even if they're bad).
Not at all! I hold both positions. I believe in reading as much as possible, but I also think I that teachers and people in places of influence need to recommend better books. Most people don’t have the resources or inclination to read everything, and when they approach their community for support, I hope that community can guide them to the most accurate texts available. Reading a “bad book” might give me personal insight, but I don’t recommend them to seekers if I can help it. Does that make sense?
@@drawingKenaz Makes sense to me thank you for taking time out to reply.
You argument seems to be more about taking in the information in the "bad" books rather than if you enjoy the writing style/ message/ whatever? Or am I getting that wrong? Funnily enough, I recently returned a book to Amazon by a high profile Druid because the whole thing felt like a giant ad for not inexpensive their Druid courses.
Yeah, I think that's fair! I think of myself as "doing anthropology" when I read, so I learn a lot about the author. Sometimes I don't like the writing style or the message! But it always tells me something about *them* and I think that's valuable by itself (I love knowing how other people practice).
I see your wisdom, but how to you find the time to be such voracious reader?
I have to schedule time to read, and I protect my lunch breaks fiercely! I also have to grab a few minutes here and there as they happen: waiting rooms, work breaks, being the passenger in a car, etc. I always have a book and notebook on me.
And here I thought you just had bad taste in books.
You need to see both sides hence why you should read the so called bad books. Plus you can't judge a book you haven't read based on the views and opinions of others.