Do Real Programmers Copy/ Paste Code From Stack Overflow?
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- Опубліковано 26 тра 2016
- Watch Eli's REAL Adventures at: www.FailedNormal.com
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I was working as a IT Network administrator for 2 years, then i started learning .Net from books. So my Project Manager picked me up onto c# project to become a manual tester.
I was developing a site with other programmers(where i was just a helper) for our company and it takes 8 months. I understand most of code, but 80% of it was copy/pasted/modified from stackoverflow.
that's the question: IF I HAVE 8 MONTHS OF EXPERIENCE WHERE I WAS COPYING AND MODYFING CODE FROM STACKOVERFLOW, CAN I SAY I'M A PROGRAMMER AND FIND JOB IN ANOTHER COMPANY?
-Lucas S. - Наука та технологія
"Do English teachers open dictionnary ?"
I'm a programmer and I often search for answer online.
You can't just remember everything.
Fun fact : I sometimes find answers posted by... me... years ago...
Thanks, me !
I'm welcome !
You know you grew up with little sisters when you hear "Yay me!" in London Tipton's voice (from the Disney Channel) after reading that comment
MrC0MPUT3R or you just watches a great freaking show as a child
it happened to me to. I had some java problems solved for some time and when I went over the code just to see how I did it back then as I was reading, I couldn't remember my own coding solution I have found back then.
I've read somewhere at one point ... can't remember where... that a coder can recognize his own code only for about two weeks. than he forgets it.
glurp1er ..lol I do the same thing..i find something I need and I'll be thinking "man this is a really good answer" then I look at who wrote it and realize it was me 2 years ago.
True. I also found an article I wrote retrofitted to some asteroid article. It was funny, but it was a strange complement yet insulting. And it is true, we all forget, I did some stuff I could not recreate today because it grew from accidental insights derived from a cut and paste as I made it work and took it further, but I cut and pasted ny own code is what I mean, but it had some Frankenstein pieces, like why would I go an learn the centroid formula when I can cut and paste it?
Even if time aint money, I am not taking a day to do something that should take 30 minutes.
You don't have to reinvent the wheel BUT you have to make the wheel fit your car.
Fiting that wheel can take a LOOOONG time.
exactly
its still important to know how that wheel works atleast thats why im "hand-coding" a lot myself (then again im a student and make only small tools)
this comment chain describes it perfectly.
This needs waaay more likes. Only time I make my own wheel, is when current wheels lose traction on the wrong type of gravel.
copy/paste is not the problem, understanding what from and where to copy/paste is the key.
I would agree. Programmers don't get paid to right lines and lines of code. Programmers get paid to make computers perform specific functions and provide solutions. Knowing what to copy/paste along with where and how to make edits is the key. I quite often copy/paste/edit code from previous projects. Experienced programmers just have a larger library of code they can copy/paste from.
this is why I didn't try to go to Digipen even though my teacher in my highschool programming class tried to convince me, it was a 3 hour class for game development, I had an A and was Java certified and whatnot, but I felt down about copy/pasting aspects of projects and getting help from the kid I sat by even though I helped him as well
Exactly: it's smart copy/pasting: I had a CS instructor once tell us he's okay with us copy/pasting code as long as we understand how it works. He had me remove some code once because I just copy/pasted and didn't really know what it was doing.
Any pasebin script will do
Perfectly fine to copy/paste/modify from stack overflow. If you are doing this often it's still fine, as long as you are starting to understand what you are taking. Less than fine, but still acceptable if you are lost but still getting the job done (although a good sign you should work harder to get to grips with what you are doing). The companies don't care how you get the job done as long as you are getting it done (up to a point)
@LukasZ S
This precisely, a lot of people are already coding C style in ruby (I've seen it!) and other's just imitate. Ultimately you end up with code that doesn't actually exploit the language in use, and is rigid and messy, and then the next guy in line comes and finds spaghetti and has to maintain your italian cuisine. That's one thing, even more, when the spec changes and new features have to be added, you'll end up working around that strange code that isn't written for the application at hand, and so it doesn't make it extensible or flexible enough. So it increases complexity and introduces high potential for bugs. And then suddenly the deadline is here and you are fighting your code instead of using it to do it's job....
"You're a programmer when you feel it".
Basically a trans-programmer.
I can do goodbye world, world is poo and hello moon I'm literally the greatest coder
LOL, Goodbye world, LOL!!!!!!! Good one! Hello Moon! YEAH!
The question is in what language?😂😂
Programming is the worst job on earth. I work with dozens of code bases with copy pasted code that no one knows how it works then it boils down to me actually making sense of it then making it do awesome stuff. I am fine with copy paste but make sure it is documented or well commented.
I hate when they don’t document functions and variables
Stack Overflow is appropriate to solve programming problems you haven't faced before in a certain language but if Stack Overflow was needed to put together an entire application, I wouldn't put much faith in that app or in that entire company
oh god I was waiting for this question so long. thanks eli, cleared my doubts
I watched your videos while in collage 2 years ago I'm proud to say i have learned so much from you. Thanks.
Why do people mention Stack Overflow in particular? I copied "hello world" from a book for most of the languages I learned. Copy/paste (by typing in the code) is a method of learning.
Because Stack Overflow tends to be the top result, rightly or wrongly when you search for many programming or system administration questions.
The reason it's not wrong to copy from Stack Overflow, is because not every question is easy. Sometimes someone has much better insight than you do, and does something that is a better language-centric solution.
Case examples are when someone goes "how do I do X in Javascript", and you get 90% jQuery instead of Javascript. Sometimes that IS what the question asker wants (a jQuery solution) but many of the times it is not, but you could reverse-engineer the jQuery solution into a Javascript solution and get something that is far more efficient.
In the case of evolving languages (eg PHP 7, Python 3, Perl 6, Ruby 3, etc) many times stuff gets depreciated, and breaks backwards compatibility (often for no reason,) and thus the question often asked is "why am I getting X error" instead, and someone will chime in and go "that is a depreciated syntax or function, use Y instead" Try getting a PHP3 program to run on PHP 7. It's a whole lot of no-fun.
The people who are "the best" programmers, can actually "compile stuff in their head" and see errors that a compiler will not pick up, because it's not a syntax error. eg "= is assignment, == comparison" and the vast majority of questions about "why isn't this working" is because the question asker has made incorrect assigments instead of comparisons.
Stackoverflow is overrated, probably because of search engine bias. Go to the manual pages and proper reference books and you will see the same solutions there, sometimes better than SO.
True, but many time the documentation doesn't explain a context for why you'd want to do something over another. Like I'd say the editorial quality of Stack Overflow is rather low, but it will point you in the right direction if you actually know what the solution is trying to do, and not simply copy-paste the solution.
This is so true when there was no internet back then.
well it takes someone smart to fix these problems, a little help is good, but.. someone actually does the hard work and you... you don't even code
First video I've seen off you, and I'm lovin it! Just really pleasing to listen to and watch. Also, great advice!
All I got from this video is that Eli's code is spaghetti ;)
its cheap noodles with boiled water haha
That was so beautiful :)
That's OK. I knew a CEO with a desk as clean as his face, and another with a rats nest, but he was the one with the millions. Some people can handle "code chaos", some can't. If you work at a place, blow that sewing machine and get a real job as the lead on your own stuff. Making it too pretty wastes more time than chaos.
But when they fire and exasperate people to always leave before they turn 30, then they want it all well mapped for the next fool to pick up the mess, and that's why they are all religious on commenting and format and all that time wasting stuff. Comments can help, I admit that, but if it works that is all that matters on a real job where you know you'll be there in 10 years.
Silicon valley mentality is like the sewing machine of 1920, they have no plans for them to be fashion designers, they have plans to devour them in the gears, you gotta go do it yourself if you want to be free. Who wants to do database until they are planted up at Evergreen?
Once you realize money does NOT make a job heaven, you understand 90% of people at Google are walking around looking at each other saying to themselves, "does that guy think this place sucks as bad as me?", "does she feel like she is in hell too?", "geez, does he also realize this was all a bad delusion?". And they have to stay mum for being hung from the highest "union" tree on that campus. When they are 40 they can finally get on UA-cam and tell the truth, lol.
1. LOVE what you do
2. Completely free self-scheduling
3. Good money
If you don't have at least 2 of those three, it will NOT be satisfying; period.
Great talk. Especially the last part when you talk about the year and how you need to relearn and build trust
I don't understand how someone couldn't understand an array. Show them a checkerboard, Battleships, Tic Tac Toe. That's what a 2 dimensional array looks like. Add a 3rd dimension? Rubik's cube. Further than that can't be visually represented but I would hope they would be able to understand that it's just an additional layer.
Mr Wolfers Yes you can visually represent 4+ dimensions very easily. For my day job we work with ~20 dimensions. This is trivial if you _group_ **related** dimensions:
* red, green, blue, alpha
* x, y
* width, height
That's 8 dimensions right there.
Even quaternions are easy to visualize if you break them down into 3+1 dimensions. It's all a matter of perspective.
I'm not an IT guy, but I made my own masterkeying programs using Excel. So I can say I'm a basic Excel programmer I guess. But what I like about your videos is you talk about the industry as a business owner and yet talk to us employees with very good advice.
I need to veg out one day and just have an Eli The Computer Guy marathon!
Great videos!
The way this guy talks... he is so damn down to earth, straight-up guy
35 years as a professional programmer, here. The number of times I have started a program with a blank text file (in a Professional setting) can be counted on one hand. In almost every case, you take something which already exists and does the same **kind** of thing you want to do, you read through it to understand how it works (usually find some bugs in it that no one noticed), and then change the code to fix the bugs and make it to whatever the new code is supposed to do. Even if you're writing something "from scratch," you usually begin by copy-pasting a "hello world" sample from the Compiler Vendor, just so you don't have waste your time with all the little configuration bits.
I certainly wouldn't limit myself to Stack Overflow, however. Using Google and scanning the results can give you a much broader foundation for how to attack a project, and also clue you into a few "gotchas" to watch out for (particularly relating to security) that you won't get by reading a single Stack Overflow posting.
That's how you make code that looks like gibberish and is inefficient. So basically my code works but I have no idea why. Which isn't particularly good for optimization when you have variables that you really don't need.
Just got my first job as an iOS Developer for an Enterprise company!
Congrats!
nice! what did you do to get that position or how long did you learn to code?
quit bragging
gilly brahh How is that bragging?
congrats give me ur money so i can make u the jesus! :D
I don't care if a programmer copies and pastes as long as it isn't stealing. I have never even thought of firing someone for being efficient. I HAVE fired programmers for not following our rules on adding rem(arks). You never know if "your" code will be modified/fixed by someone else - so plan it that way. Often it's a panic situation with unhappy clients waiting for a fix. I have also NOT hired programmers simply for saying "code is self documenting".
It's worse when C++ is involved, because without documentation and comments all the code needs to be rewritten if you ever decide to get rid of the programmer involved
"I have also NOT hired programmers simply for saying "code is self documenting". Seems a bit harsh. One of the most valuable programming skills, that comes with experience, is the ability to name things properly. That skill alone makes code infinitely easier to understand and does away with the need for documentation in most cases.
Thanks for this. In the process of trying to make the jump from network analyst to programmer myself at the moment.
I'm a pure (theoretical) math major and I only code as a hobby, but this guy is awesome. I've seen a couple of his videos (I never even searched for them, one was recommended) and he cuts out the bullshit and gets to the point.
I'm starting to really appreciate how consistently Eli breaks down the mythos around computing.
You have no idea how much you have motivated me through this video ...
i think you must be a pro programmer by now, after 5 years LOL....if you will be able to see thos...(btw after that Covid also came ))
The way I found best to explain a multidimensional array is to say it's like a Excel spreadsheet, you have your rows and columns and to select a specific cell you have to ask for said row and column like so cell[row][column] where row could be A and column could be 1. If they understand the concept of a standard array they should then get exactly what this means.
I've been programming 37 years. Having working examples of code from Stack Overflow is a Godsend. I am a good programmer (crap, I am a great programmer), but it's still takes time to debug a hunk of code. The secret of being a good developer is getting the job done right the first time.
That was a good confidence building video.
I have 20 years IT and about 2 years real programming experience. I go to every hackathon I can to get that pressure experience.
But I never feel like a real programmer. Someone once called it 'imposter' mindset or something. Programmers apparently get it alot.
On the Nebraska vs. California statement: Omaha, Lincoln, and Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Souix City, and Iowa City in neighboring Iowa have plenty of tech jobs available. In fact, I'm a computer science teacher that hears from local businesses (big and small) that there aren't enough programmers available to fill their positions.
As a developer who earls 100K/yr, if 80% of the project is from stack overflow, there's bigger issues to be concerned about regarding your team. Here's the thing, the difficult part of programming is not syntax or understanding the basics of software design. It's making an abstract concept into a concrete object. How you can take your abstract concept which is unique to you and use stack overflow to build 80% of it is a mystery to me. I would say NO, you are not ready to be a developer based on what you know.
It also depends on the type of project that you're working on. If it's a shitty React website, then I think you would be able to get away by copy & pasting 80% of the codebase from StackOverflow.
“It’s not where you take things from-it’s where you take them to.”
- Jean-Luc Godard
This is inspiring if the idea of understanding multiple level arrays is the requirement for getting some entry/junior level positions.
Hearing how high demand for programmers is, it's a huge relief to know how doable getting a job in the field is.
wow great advice. I always feel the way you say. That I am not good enough to work at this job though I have shown that I am worthwhile. thank you for this video.
I like the way you put the subject into check, straight forward and no BS. I want to get coding experience and use it for a new career. What do you suggest in getting into the "Hello World of Coding " :)
Shane P.
The wheel has been invented already(programming languages) manipulate and create. I agree. if you understand, arrays, functions, passing parameters.. Everyone is going to say somethings hard until you do it and figure it out for yourself.
It's so true, you are a programmer when you have the confidence to say “I'm a programmer” - which of course will be highly individual. Essentially as long as you can accomplish to write even the simplest type of e.g., click event in JS you will be proficient at providing programming services for _some types of clients_. As long as you don't lie about your abilities, it's all good.
I think we often forget that even if we feel like we have inferior knowledge compared to X programmer that we may look up to, we still know infinitely more about the topic than the companies that hire us (for the most part) - and that's why they hire us.
hey sir, hope you answer my question. "Do you prefer to read books than reading on online tutorials and watching video tutorials in case of programming?" please I need your advice
I love these videos. Thanks Eli.
Thanks for this. Trying to learn and teach myself to code, definitely not there yet, but hopefully soon.
Did you succeed so after 4 years?
As long as you know what you are copy/pasting and be able to adapt it to fit your needs - of course. Part of being a software developer is to be able to take bits and pieces others have done and make something more out of those.
What amount of programming knowledge should i have to start actually copy pasting n changing ? Basics or intermediate or more then that ?
Good advices thank you... the Best words are few with full indication.
Yes, all the time. Usually fixes for random breakage in libraries I'm using. Some programmes prefer to solve things themselves but I try to train them out of that habit. :)
I'm a 20 year old programming enthusiast but have no schooling and or work experience in the field; where would you say I should start in regards to finding a career in the field?
I get the feeling there's a really amazing story behind that green belt in the background. Would I be correct?
Where do you look up how many open positions of software engineers are available? Also, how is it looking as of 2019?
I have a question Eli please.
I have been dabbling in html5, css3, javascript php and msqyl. for over 5 years. I have no real job in computing. I just build hobby testing websites at home. I design web sites with back end database mysql. I can read very well what the code is supposed to do and what limitations it has. I developed critical reading from being exposed to reading alot of computer books for many years. I can get to a project quite quick, but this is all from attending to reference material.
I get bored alot of times with doing this hobby work. I have always wanted to learn how to write independently computer code but have always failed to learn such a technique. I read and write and copy scripts from books, w3schools, and modify the code to some degree to get doing more extendable work on my hobby websites. Could I be in a position to be marketable for a job in Computing if I applied for such a entry level job role in web design/ development etcc....
I try sometimes to write some code in a pseudo style type but becuase it can't flow in some form of sequence.when I get to a computer it has no impact because there is no flowing process in the scripts.. I would like to begin to learn how to write code independently. Any help much welcoming.
Yes and understanding what the code does and where to paste it and documenting it well because deadlines and no use spending hours for the solution and why reinvent the wheel.
I don't copy and paste
I type the entire code I see by hand...I'm too hard on myself sometimes. XD
But it's a nice habit. It kind of trains me to make sure I'm not making any mistakes I'm typing, and sometimes I'm more likely to try and understand how that piece of code works so I can make my own derivative in the future should I ever need to do so.
Hey Eli, I have a question. What do you think of Masters degrees in Computer Science? Just your personal opinion. I haven't started the Bachelor degree yet but I like to thinking ahead of time.
9:36, you just described me perfectly, you might have just opened my eyes! TBC
Love this one thanks Eli.
Wait, are multi-level arrays really that hard to understand? We are talking about arrays like "array[x, y, z]" right? That was in my intro coding class.
Just make sure to refactor pasted code afterwards and u're fine
what will be the configuration for laptop,if you are programmer.
This video is again encouraging. I never would have thought this. I only have limited programming skills. I do some game development (in fact, I made a few videos of some games I made - one could watch the videos I posted) and I also do some limited web development. I by no means consider myself an expert. It's just been something that I've been doing on the side for a few years. But, I honestly didn't think I would be good enough to really get a job in the field.
If I can get job as a programmer at a Fortune 500 with knowing little to no programming you can too
jdogwar Ok, thanks!
No 1 Rule of efficient programing is to not write code which has already been written. For example, to reverse a string don't write a reverse () function, use the std::reverse.
I enjoy don't unneccessary things, so in R this is how you print the numbers 1 to 10:
rev(rev(1:10))
The way I judge quality of answers on stack overflow is whether I can instantly understand them. If I have to put more than like a second of effort into figuring out what they did I just move on because it's probably not the right way to do something. This method hasn't actually failed me yet.
lol
i do the same.
if i dont get it. forget it
Hey eli How is the web design and programming doing today what do you think is it still a very wanted job i'm studying I.T. Want to focus web programming and Design more
You're actually pretty insightful on this subject. I only got to know you through your drama with Louis Rossman so now I'm actually conflicted about wishing that you guys would stop it. :D
JUST gonna put this out there, STACK FLOW IS MY LIFE
This made me feel better about my copy/pasting. At least I now know that i'm not the only one that does it :)
As long as you understand the solutions to the questions you have and you can modify the answers to match your requirements then yeah! Why not.
1:11 Rule of thumb (because people seem to over think themselves): If you can make a program that solves a problem (and I don't mean 2+2=4), works, is able to handle idiots throwing bad data at it, then you can be considered a programmer.
I do not consider myself a programmer yet. i can do some basic things in VB, but not really that far in.
great advice in this vid!
Im working on a project and someday I will really need someone to help me... the most important thing is trust, if you can do it then you can do it
Ty for this vid! I am a new jr developer still in school. Need all the advice i can get.
tnx a lot!
such an awesome clip
Practical example. At my work I needed a list of currency codes. Now I hate manual typing and maintaining lists of things only to find out that the world changed and I have to update my program.
So I googled and found a function that retuned all iso 4217 currency symbols that .net knows about. Why wouldn't I copy paste it? (after reviewing its correctness and quality of course. Maybe change it a bit.) I'm not gonna re-invent the wheel or come up with better code. If I do come up with better code I will use that of course.
Yes, every function we write in our job gets put into a huge database, and it can be reused from anyone.
Why write a new function to display that text on a screen, when someone has already done it?
Its really about being able to put the chunks together if you can do that well in like 99% of situations your thrown in gg your a programmer capable of working on government infrastructure. (The code doesn't necessarily have to work first time either but so long as you can debug it and keep making progress. )
If i write CCNA on a roll of toliet paper does that make me a real CCNA?
Most programmers are judged by how well they can solve / debug a problem on their own. If there's a bug, and your boss asks you find what the problem is and you can find the problem and present a solution - that's how they would judge you ... by merit.
What I hate is the most is people calling themselves senior developer, but when it comes to the crux of solving the problem they will ask someone who doesn't have that tenureship but very brilliant, and who actually solves the problem, and these senior dev will take credit for solving the problem without even mentioning they got help from someone.
Writing code is easy, everyone can do it. Making it work properly on the other hand...
@@SerBallister yesssss
at this point I use python a lot, I used to use php a lot, before that I used java a lot. I copy simple syntax crap from stack overflow when I cant force my brain to forget how to do array slices in python when i’m trying to do it in php.
Or simple things like the exact syntax of safer file opening in python using the with statement. Getting anything more than that from the web would suck all the fun out of what I consider programming.
Thinking up a unique algorithm for a highly specific problem is what makes development fun. Copy paste syntax, not entire programs, thats the fun bit of coding.
I am a professional programmer and part of my job is deciding who we hire for the software development department. In order to do this I sometimes give prospective colleagues (after the job interview) a one week project that we work on together, if they want to do that. I sometimes see young programmers who have never worked in the field copy and paste code from the internet. This is sometimes highly problematic, but not for the reason that the code was copied or where it came from: The problem is that these young programmers tend to copy code they themselves do not fully understand. They don't really know what it does. The resulting software is not suitable for use in a production environment as a direct result, especially if the programmer does not employ rigorous test driven development methods or the code is in principle not fully testable.
Copying code from the internet is something we do all the time though. Every time I use an open source library in a project I am copying someone else's code into my project. Sure, it's often several people's code, which is nice, and it has a bug tracker, which is nice, but the real issue for me is always "Do I understand what this does?" and "Are enough other people using this?". Both questions can sometimes be answered positively, even with code from SO type sites.
PS: Just continued watching the video and the point about "hand coding" seems very salient: I am just now working on my first ever project where I truly need to hand code everything. So far I had always worked in high level languages like C that allow you to easily use other people's code, like the C standard library. Now that I have to write code that directly loads and runs on a processor without relying on so much as an operating system, it's incredibly annoying. Not just because of the limitations of the assembly language itself in terms of abstraction, but also because you have to write so much simple stuff yourself. I do not suggest hand coding to anyone if you can avoid it.
Hello sir! Im in the last sem of my college as a IT student major in Programming. In this coming 2 months its my graduation day. But I dont know so much about programming. To be honest if I rate myself. maybe its 3/10 :( But I have a knowledge and experience for Technical support and Network support. What should I do? Can I get a job as a Programmer?
Just be honest say you're willing to put in the work and keep asking questions and keep striving to improve. For me I hate to say it but not amount of school could motivate me enough like me losing my job can to learn programming. Mainframe is still a big thing didn't know anything but the work COBOL😂 now I develop on mainframes
I usually don't copy/paste entire blocks of code. I'll do one or two lines though to resolve an issue I am having. I use StackOverflow more as a reference, not as a place to get all my code from. I won't use code I can't easily and quickly explain what it does, the reason is if something breaks and you need to debug it, guess what you don't understand well enough to figure out why it isn't giving you the correct results anymore? Things I will use StackOverflow for is things such as what is the difference between this or that, what is best practice, which is more efficient, which is easier to maintain, etc.
If you know what you are copy and pasting then its cool. If you get done early do you get a bonus?
Stack overflow provides you to understand the solution which can fit in your problem and solves what you're intending to do..
i was doing a program trying to solve a basic math problem once in c and i got the error msg "stack overflow" since then i said to myself this coding profession is really is not for me. lots of people have this notion that we can be programmers but simply going to school and learning various languages but in all honesty the answer is no. we all can learn to program basic stuff but not big stuff. we all can sing and dance.but very few of us can be really real singers who can sing or artists who can dance.same is with coding. when i play a video game and reach the roll of credits and see the programmers section i say to myself wow these guys are surely talented and thats it.
I would say that it depends on whether you understand the code that you copy.
Maybe in the beginning but as what you learn becomes more intense like implementing algorithms that become more and more complex stack overflow seems to be less of help and articles or papers, thesis... become more helpful.
is this a new channel or did you just add _Live_ to the name?
yes they do... but they adapt it to their case scenario. Why reinvent the wheel?
lol. sometimes yeah copy paste, but most of the time i discover or make my own code.
I get what you mean by its all been written but its also important to reinvent the wheel sometimes as there is not a good enough solution available. Thats why you end up with new software development kits as people chose to reinvent the wheel. Its neccessary for progress sometimes.
... some reinvention is always good... I just see far too many n00bs reinventing the wheel just to "prove" they're professionals...
Great Question!
thank you for this video. I was confused..
I'm from Nebraska, opportunities are pretty good here!
I dont care what I can call myself or what it takes.. I care what i can achieve with my knowledge.. I'm still trying to find the best way to accomplish my goals..
Nowadays, an important contribution to your CV can come from building up an online reputation.
Maintain an account on GitHub/GitLab. Publish a few projects of your own. Contribute to a few projects of other people’s. Get your name into the Git commit history of something well-known. All this adds up.
No, I do not copy/paste code from StackOverflow. In fact, it’s quite rare that I learn anything useful there github.com/ldo/scan_disks/blob/master/scan_disks .
I have one quick question I want your opinion on it. So I am writing a multiplayer snake game with my friend, the entire protocol is binary and we are considering having an admin web interface. Now the problem is if you ban someone on this admin web interface how will the game client of the player logged in know? I have two possibilities. 1. Have a special admin section on the server and the web server will talk with it( This is preferred as it means no polling on the servers end ). 2. Every 10 seconds or so the server will recheck the database to ensure the client is not banned. 2. is easier to develop but less efficient as the user wont be banned instantly their client wont be kicked.
Thats one question. The next is some of my friends have been saying this multiplayer snake game should of just worked via a web server and basically poll for JSON requests rather than its own server and a bianry protocol. I am highly against the idea of this. Even over a web socket sending JSON requests just feels evil for me as its supposed to be a real time game. Whats your take on it.
i wouldn't leave the decision of whether a player is banned up to the client side. because they can do whatever they want with their client. i would leave this decision on the server side. you could have your clients connect to the same server as the admin web interface and fire an event at the server fire when the admin changes something. maybe the even just means the server has to poll the database or maybe the event is more specific and contains all the information (endless possibilities). this complicates things but i think its the right way. but only you can decide what is more practically and worth your time. i think it depends on the reason why you are creating your game (to learn something, proof of concept etc...)
for communication i would say whatever is easier. i use a lot of JSON in my protocols. i find it fast enough. and if it isn't i will start to optimize it. just don't start optimizing things pre-maturely. that's the real evil. it complicates code and wastes development time. keep things as simple as possible. i wouldn't worry about others being able to read the messages because even binary is not safe. even real time is usually not actually real time. there are all kinds of tricks games use to make things look real time
Thanks aybersurfer. There is some confusion to what I meant. Basically player clients connect to my server, everything is validated on the server but the web server uses http. The game server uses my own protocol. Since I want the admin interface to be on a web client the web server would need to talk with the game server to state when a player has been banned if the player is logged in. This is so the game server can kick the newly banned player. The other way is for the game server to poll the web server, or database every few seconds and check for a ban to then kick the game client. What would be the choice you would do?
the annoying thing is that databases don't really notify about changes (i wouldn't do anything with database triggers because that's not what they are for).
in the ideal case i would have the web server update the database to make the player banned. then i would have the web server notify the game server that it needs to kick the player or "poll" the database once. on the other hand this creates a dependency for 2 systems that were separate, you could lessen this a bit by making it possible to ban players if the game server is not online.
i also don't think continuous polling is that wrong. if you retrieve all the banned players in one go it might not be too bad. on the other hand, it creates some overhead and it may require that you change your server to actively do things if it wasn't already instead of just responding to requests.
i personally wouldn't go for polling unless it's a bit impractical to notify the game server from the web server
4:31 Code reuse is done by including libraries into your project. If you are doing it via copy/paste, you’re doing it wrong.
I really had to ask myself if it is really this difficult. Actually, Object Orientation is a piece of cake for my but it wasn't allways that easy. I still know i've had many problems understanding it.
It just blew my mind and my classmates don't even undestand it today
(i make a scholarship in Germany as an IT-Assistand [Networking, OS, Programming, Webdesign, Databases etc]).
But now i can really understand my Teachers being unable to explain it somewhat good.
i've also failed to do so, but it's really easy once you've got the abstract way of thinking.
I'm a newly minted programmer now I just have to find ways to get paid for doing so
after 5 years! now you should be a very good skilled programmer right? :)))
I'll try to keep this as short as possible. I am asking this to get your perspective as an IT employer.
I have been a web developer, server and front end, for 27 years, much of it as a sole proprietor. I
have experience with Java, JavaScript, Python, Ruby and Perl. To a lesser extent I have experience
in Swift and Objective C. Most important I think is I have a strong understanding of programming
principles and am able to become proficient with any language in 2-3 weeks and good in about
3 months.
I'm 49 years and suffer severe, treatment resistant, clinical depression. I've been unable to be in the
workforce for 8 years but have made enough progress to reenter the workplace given certain flexibilities:
Being able to work from home when being around others is problematic, and during those times being
able to work the hours needed on my own schedule provided I meet deadlines. Do you believe I could
be hired as a programmer at 50-60K per year?
Oh wow, an Armatron! Brother! The last place I worked, the majority of people had a weak programming background, but were hired as senior programmer, and mostly programmed by Google Sleuthing. So, I guess the employer didn't have many options. Stunk for us with multiple tech degrees, years of experience, started by nerding out when a kid, etc.
copy paste isn’t the problem, understanding the code you just pasted is the problem. Good habit: copy -> paste -> rewrite pasted code to make it look like your other code(variable names, brackets, etc)
Hey Eli should I start a career as a IT admin before i try to become a programmer?
.. no... just go for programming...
the question of the year. It depends on whatever you want to do.
Just go for the first thing you can, most languages are pretty much the same. Learning how to build,structure,debug are the skills you should really be going for. And GitHub & Stack Overflow are your friends embrace them.
+The Warner Mozes Abrahams can't just learn everything. Focus on what is relevant to you. For example, low level languages like C are no good for AI research (hell, maybe not even for implementation). And unless you're planning to use assembly anytime soon, you probably don't want that
I dont think it matters much if you pick either c++ or Java. Once your competent at one language then learning another is fairly easy.
Yes, but rarely and even if I did I would make sure I knew what every line did what I wanted to do.