3 Things Your CFI Isn't Telling You About Landings - MzeroA Flight Training
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2014
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I had problems landing smoothly. My CFI couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. It wasn't real bad just never smooth. The cure came from his boss who was a real oldtimer. Here's what he had me do. As we were on our final, engine idle stages and just about to touchdown, he had me say out loud "Don't land, don't land, don't land"as I did my best to hold the aircraft off the runway. The result? Landings as smooth as silk. He showed me that I had been "landing" the airplane instead of letting it land. So, as you are low and slow, just about to land, try to hold the plane off the runway automatically causes you to put it at exactly the right angle and speed for a perfect greased in landing.
-You're welcome!
Pook Atim This is exactly what my CFI told me, "Keep it off the ground" and whenever I got closer to the ground he'd yell "STILL KEEP IT OFF THE GROUND" close to half way down the runway the plane would just smoothly drop itself, he said, you got the whole runway, why the hell not use it? It's better for the wheels and breaks too!
Pook Atim My problem is I usually flare to early or too much. I fly out of KFRG which can be windy sometimes so its tough learning there.
+Pook Atim I would say it also depends on the length of your runway, I'm learning in the UK on short grass runway, I can tell you don't want to waste your time on a smooth landing, all you want is to put the bloody wheels on the grass and brake as soon as you can!!! :-)
But I've got your message, it's indeed a good way to teach. Just be careful to not ballooning too much if you've still got too much energy when you flare, that could make you stall higher than expected.
thats because the lift is not enough for you to climb at that point, but because your entire plane -fuselage as well as wings- are fighting for lift, it gives you an almost parallel trajectory with the runway. makes 3 point landings child's play on a tail gear.
+Pook Atim This is pretty much what I teach my students. Hold it off until you have the right pitch attitude, then hold that pitch attitude until the wheels touch. Just keep adjusting the pitch attitude (sight picture!!!) to control the height above the ground. If a short field landing is required, just cross the threshold at a lower airspeed (be precise!) and realize you'll need to pitch up more quickly to reach the same pitch attitude before touch-down. If you touch down gently just as the yoke is about to hit the rear stop, that's about as good as it gets!
My CFI told me that after takeoff you will land, it is preferable that it is done on a runway, right side up, and that the gear remain intact.
:)
😂
😭😭😭
With my student instructor (I am PP now), we used to do an excersize:
Come in to land, transition from descent to straight and level slow flight, as if to land, but then adjust power to hold it a few feet off the runway. Then you hold that for about half the runway, add power to climb, clean up, go around, and do it again.
Controlling the aircraft in the same slow flight configuration, but holding it there, really helps with the feeling that you have control of the aircraft in any configuration, and landing is a controlled thing, not a thing to get over with quickly.
Just my two cents.
+Scott Franco That actually helped me over come my fear of soft field take offs... I did it on accident once, 10,000' runway so plenty for runway. I had left some power I didn't realize I had and was just sitting in ground effect increasing speed, my instructor said if you don't let out any power we'll never land! He then told me not to land to keep in ground effect like this and keep us off the ground but remain in ground effect. Demonstrated ground effect how it really doesn't want to let you down, it would just increase your speed faster and faster; you literally would have to violently push the yoke down to hit the runway.
We did a few of these low passes with different power settings, sometimes to a very long extended soft field landing saying just keep it off for as long as you can, keep adding power, make the wheels touch on their own, stay in the round out.
After, my soft field take offs were good and I felt much more confident in getting and remaining in ground effect to accelerate. It also improved all other landings from my soft field landing, short field, and normal. Also around that time I became better at controlling my airspeed on any type of approach and landing or any phase of flight.
Being a motorcycle rider has helped me a lot in my flight lessons. Riding a motorcycle involves "looking" where you want to go. You look through a turn. You look at the road ahead. You constantly pick out "targets" and ride towards them. This helps me aim for the horizon and use it to determine straight and level flight. It helps me in turns plus, when I land, I look down the runway for a target. Your 2nd point is so important. More instructors should teach "Look where you want to go"!!!
Ha! I've mentioned exactly this to my instructor re being a motorcycle rider and how it has helped in flight training! Cool! I also mentioned how I "pre-flight" the bike (most of the time) - check oil, check all lights, check tire pressure, check brakes and clutch, etc.
True.
I learned - the hard way - to not look where you don't want to go, lol.
Haha this is exactly what I thought of during my training. Funny I'm not alone!
Target fixation is a real thing! Also former motorcycle rider, in flight school!
I had an old timer teach me that trick. Look at where you want to end up and not where your at. You will always end up where you're looking as the brain is wired that way. You can even practice this in your car or on a motorcycle. Look at the exit out of the turn and you will end up there. Then pick a new marker down the road where you want to end up and the same thing happens.
Claude Rains
After nearly 20 years of being a weekend warrior private pilot - I thought I was pretty good at landing...
Well, in one summer of Tail Wheel flying, I have seen major improvement.
All these tips Jason shares here apply, but when you get into a less forgiving airplane, you really get to see the subtle differences - for instance, learning to "wheel land" in the Super cub you have to fly it onto the runway with perfect speed, looking out to keep an ever so slight rate of descent so that you don't bounce.
All three tips regarding speed / energy management, where you put your eyes, and ditching the word flare all apply here in a huge way.
All this to say - check out tail wheel flying - I can't recommend it enough!
hey Flight chops didn't expect you to comment on here, even though i know you watch Jason, I watch a lot of your videos. Tail wheel flying really peaks my interest how do you like tail wheel to the tricycle gear. I am trying to get back into flying so all these videos are helping thanks guys
Watched your videos ***** ! Keep it up!
Michael Miller Thanks Michael! I sent you a message via Patreon - lemme know if you got it. As for Tail Wheel flying compared to tricycle - it is basically night and day. I love it.
I am also well aware that I know enough to know what I don't know :) So I have a huge amount of respect for the Super Cub on the ground - It is all about foot work - you can not ever relax your feet at all like you can in a 172 or PA28.
Even taxiing is challenging.
I let my pilot buddy try from the back seat the other day and I looked down for a second to plan the route on my iPad - and BAM, we were off the taxi way - I couldn't save it in time and just pulled the power and went for the ride. Luckily we didn't hit any lights and the Super Cub is basically a Jeep, so the bumpy grass beside the tax way was not a problem; but it was sobering how fast it can happen, even at a slow speed.
Howard Lau Thanks Howard! Jason was a big part of the inspiration for me to get into sharing flying via UA-cam
***** nice to see you here. I love your videos mate. I'm not flying right now due to my university and ATPL theory studies, but as soon as I'm back I plan on filming my flying. I wasn't sure how to go about it, but the way you've been doing it has really inspired me, skilful but humble. perfect.
I just started my training 1 month ago and I absolutely love it. The tips that you publish are right in line with how my CFI teaches. Thanks for all the great video references.
Where are you at now with aviation?
What my flight instructor didn't tell me is pitch for speed, power for altitude. Luckily though, i already knew that from playing Flight Simulator. To be fair, it was a free flight school, state funded. Unfortunately, they had an age limit so i didn't get to finish my training due to costs.
What I taught. Runup done, stage for takeoff... pull the mixture.... tell the student... take us to 2500 feet.... with the look of WTH he always says.. no engine. I say start pumping on the elevator until we fet to 2500. They instantly understand that power =altitude, and pitch = airspeed... they NEVER forget it.
"look further down the runway" - best piece of advice my Airline Pilot/Air Traffic Controller/CFI ever told me... results in smoother landings, my instructor also told me 90/80/70 , and yes you're stalling the plane right above the runway. thanks for the good advice, but my instructor did share two of those three with me :)
Appreciate the points and the way you made them. Trying to "deliberately flare" has probably caused me more balloons on landing than anything else ("time to flare! Whoops, still too fast, whoaaaaaa! [go-around]") and it's nice to hear a CFI actually preach some heresy about it.
Just don't forget (like most CFIs in UA-cam videos seem to): Not all students are training in tricycle gear aircraft. I see a lot of students, myself included, training in tailwheel airplanes - they're making a bit of a come-back - so "3 point attitude" means something different to us. :)
My instructor uses the gunsite method. Back site on approach. Flare (transition) front site. In other words beginning of the runway on approach as you are about ready to touch look to the end of the runway. It really helped me get centerline and smooth out the landing.
Wow wow wow Jason, I took your advice on looking down the runway and my landings are improved already! I passed my checkride yesterday with flying colors btw! Thanks for signing my Instrument book too at Oshkosh, so many golden things in that book!
I think UA-cam and folks like you have completely blown general aviation wide open. When I got my ticket in the 90's it was all about mainstream curriculum, your cfi, and people you talked to. But the knowlege hat is now shared by everyone and I think its a game changer. Thanks!
I'm just flying xplane but your video's are helping me fly it better. Thanks for the Video's :)
A CFI showed me this on a BFR a few years ago, cured me, and I went from 10% greasers to 90% greasers. Yep, transition!, even if coming in a bit fast...transition to "level" in ground effect, once she slows to the proper speed, you feel it start sinking, start pulling to arrest the sink (try not to land, lol) and grease it on. I've had some so soft that I had to look out at the main wheel to see if I was down or still in the air. Good stuff, love the vids!
I've always flown aircrafts where the instrument panel doesn't allow for you to see out front so well and are dangerous to just taxi on the runway if you're a rookie. When I first sit in an aircraft I always look at the frontal perspective and peripheral perspective and get a feel for where that is on the front window and especially the side window. On the descent where I can see in front and see the runway as I get to the last 20 feet, I go from front view to peripheral senses to see and feel or get a sense of sink rate and if I slowed up my descent where its going to be a kiss to the runway. As you pointed out slowing the bird and holding of the descent to a slower pace for the kiss. The peripheral view gives you that good sense of sink rate. Works really well at night where all you can see is the runway lights. The reason why most student pilots land better at night a lot of times since they can't see the runway but get the sense of the lights out of their peripheral view.
Okay and please tell me how to get on a runway that doesn't have a taxiway if you don't taxi on the runway? Also i suggest you never fly into Belize because when you land there you taxi back about halfway down the runway to get off of it and that was in a 727
K.S. you put a smile on my face. I flew more old aircrafts into old strange places, in the worst of conditions and a 727 was one of them. Sounds like you know how to live!! It is amazing but don't worry they know what they're doing. Just close your eyes and breath or hope your sitting next to a babe so you're not thinking of it. You can start to worry when the pilot asks passengers to stick there hand out the window and drag their feet for a little braking assistance.... ;-)
I was responding to the person criticizing the taxi back just pointing out that at some places you have to
thats how Machado teaches.
I entirely agree on 1 & 2, airspeed is everything, and keeping your eyes on the other end of the runway surely helps with the depth perception and figuring height above the runway.I would say that #3 depends entirely on the aircraft. I learned in a HP C-180 taildragger with spring steel main gear and blended winglets, and any extra speed resulted in considerable floating and bounced if you tried to force it down in any way other than perfect; and the runway was hidden by the nose in a 3 point landing or even just taxiing. Even in a 172 or 182, the runway would disappear under the nose. But that's how I was taught, that if you could feel the transition from flight to taxiing, it wasn't good enough. But for teaching low time students, having a few extra knots on final is probably a good idea.
Jason, love your videos. One thing I wanted to say is that foot position on the rudder pedals is also extremely important. I was doing my flight review the other day and I was having problems with aircraft control after touchdown. Come to find out all this time my toes are only suppose to be on the rudder. My entire foot was previously. Perfect landings now. I wish I would have went to you for flight instruction instead of a part 141 college.
Love your channel and some great advice. I'm a 40 year private instrumated rated SEL. When I was much younger I could land anywhere. As I've gotten older I can't land my Hawk XP anymore with out dropping it in. But I think you're videos will help. Nailing airspeed is not the issue. But I've found my self forcing the "flair". You're so right don't flair, transition. My home airport has a 10K ft runway. I always ask for a long landing as my parking is at the end. So every time I work to extend that landing 3/4 of the way down I kiss the runway and it's that unexpected landing that is the best. Take it to a shorter runway and I'm trying to force the airplane down and your explaination has shown me the key. I appreciate the help and the video's.
I started to fly in Alaska in the late 70's, I never intended to go into complex aircraft. When I went into a lower 48 flight training it seemed to be all about training to be an airline pilot, not how to fly the airframe to it's best performance. I had to learn all over from the beginning. All of my lower 48 training was in aircraft at less than 50% gorse take-off or landing. In Alaska I trained in a Cessna 150 conventional gear, once I soloed my dad made me, single pilot and sand-bag at 90% take-off in different balance configurations. Doing this type (about 150 to 200 landings in different balance configurations, even in trike not just conventional gear) of training would help many learn different landing stiles not just long paved strip. We all know that you can not fly an airframe at 40% or less gorse landing compared to 95% gorse landing and out of balance. I think that this type of training about 15 or 20HRS would make much better pilots.
In that late 70s and the end of the 80s I flew general aviation, 11 years. I had a private CFI that taught me how to fly. He was always concerned about making it to the runway, so we would come in high and a little fast, slipping sometimes I know that this technique is called the Sarajevo Approach, or extreme combat landing approach. I never knew any other way. Now that I have started flying again after 30 years, it seems like we’re coming in too low to make the runway in the event of an engine failure. A lot of things have changed. I used to do these landings with a crosswind and at night with no problem.
I learned to fly at 8I3. A grass strip with a water puddle halfway down. Yes, we flared everything from 152's, to A Seneca, though I never flew it, I flew all our Arrow.s Saratoga's, and even a T-tail Lance and Arrow! Always had the yoke in my gut at touchdown. We would go slowflight until over the water hole, and chop the throttle to an immediate landing on the other side. Thank you Don McCann, R.I.P. to an awesome WW2 Instructor....
Oh yeah CFI's never talk about airspeed while landing. Totally new concept.
+Zorbacci O I wish I got a nickle for every time I said "watch your airspeed!"
+pilotguy you'll be able to pay for all your flight training 😂
After almost 40 years, now they tell me!
You’d be surprised man. I see cfi’s not put enough emphasis on airspeed
lol mine does. He’s constantly telling me “power in power in”
I'm not starting flight training until March, but I've seen one too many horrible landings at work (FBO where I work) so I want to be prepared! great video, thanks so much!
Yep. Hits it right on the head here. I stopped "flaring" and chose to "arrest the descent" with about 3/4" between the mains and the surface of the asphalt and try to fly as far as down the runway at that altitude as possible. That landing attitude is a bit easier on the gear too.
thank you. i didnt know why i was screwing up so often. prepar3d a2a c172. it makes sense now!
just learning ,, thankyou for your time cheers Rob
Love it.. great stuff Jason! I also didn't like using the word 'flare' while flying a 152. I also have this thing about other pilots saying " I'm taking runway 32 ".. don't take it! I need it..
Thanks. i'm allways getting compliments on my landings for smooth breakers from passengers but always complains from my CFI for my speed to high on finals. You are the first instructor that teaches the way into it.
Thank you ! I've just flown for 8 hours and get my solo flight tomorrow!
All excellent points. Thank you Jason.
i just found this page, thanks for the pointers your videos are great!!!!
Hello from France
Thanks for this great video. Very Helpful!
EXCELLENT!! 4,000 hr fully rated 49 yrs. Pitts to A26. EXACTLY. but please teach FEEL with trim. Not movements or input. FEEL. Trim for +5 k and feeeel the back pressure it takes to maintain desired airspeed. FEEL. and the feel for transition. As airspeed bleeds off it will take more elevator to maintain that 5# of feel. = a better roundout, touchdown. Thanks good video. I will be watching your stuff!!!!
The best advice I got from the owner of my flight school was bring the airspeed down to 70 for landing where I use to use 80 as my CFI liked 80 for the extra safety margin, since I got down to 70 landings are better but another piece of great advice in a C172 when the power comes back is try not to land, try keep the nose up
The key is to never "land" the airplane. The pilot's job is to prevent the airplane from landing as long a possible. The pilot should attempt to prevent the plane from landing as long as possible. The airplane will land itself, after it "gives up the ghost" so to speak. My chief pilot near Chicago at DuPage Aviation in the late 1970's was a WWII ex P51 fighter pilot. He always taught us not to attempt a "Greaser" landing, but to hold off the airplane until it stalled about 6 inches above the ground. He taught us that there should be a slight "thump" during the last 6 inches after the airplane stalled just above the ground. It is true, if you land with a 'Greaser", you are landing with excess airspeed. You will burn rubber on your tires, and land longer and use more disc brake material for braking in a 'greaser". Sure, it looks better to those who are watching, but they don't pay the annual repair bills, you do. A full stall landing is also safer because you land at the slowest possible airspeed under the conditions of the day. The speed at landing increases safety by the inverse square of the speed at touchdown. In other words, as the famous Bob Hoover said, "fly the damn thing into the crash as slow and as long as possible in order to reduce the damage during an emergency". Or words to that effect. DPA
Flare wasn't used by my instructor. It was "round out" to level out and "hold off" by gradually pulling back to keep it flying all to the ground. The key point was the correct round out height. Not too high to stall above the runway during the hold off, and not too low to land flat before you expect it.
I was landing pretty good in a 172. I thought. Then I got my own plane, a PA28-140. I'm having such a terrible time hitting the speeds. Then, I am "flaring" and floating, and then because I want to salvage a landing, I'm falling out of the sky and landing hard.. I know why. Too much speed and too much "I gotta land" mentality. I will practice slow flight some more. Hit the speeds better. And, not "Flare" so hard, but rather "transition".
thing is, as you surely know, low wing aircraft experience way more ground effect than high wing aircraft, so it is a difficult adaptation to go through for sure...
Holy cow did these tips ever help! THANK you!!
I agree not to flare and fly few inches above runway until you bleed your airspeed and touch down. It's good for brakes, it's good for passengers... But, I do flare (C-172) when I land on short(er) field - attitude: nose high up, stall horn squeaking. You are bleeding energy (and speed) much faster with increased drag.
Loving the video tutorials as a student pilot, thanks!
JASON MAN you are a great Cfi I ve learned a lot with your videos..thanks for all you help
Another good video. I teach my new Bristell owners how to land by attitude with no reference to airspeed just in case they get a bug in the pitot
Tube. I also train them to use their inner “Yoda” to listen to the engine and feel the controls. Like you, I teach slow flight down the runway, which I refer to as GPA, Ground Proximity Awareness, training without reference to airspeed and always with a crosswind. New students get a dual benefit from GPA training as they are learning balloons to go around while learning about proper control input for crosswinds. Lou
this is actually a significant tip. to use your other senses to estimate power. just like in an everyday car you drive. once something in the engine changes, vibration, sound, slightly off power -- your senses suddenly shift and become more aware for any oncoming troubles.
If you flying the pattern pitch for 80 on climb out. why speed up to slow down right away?Maintain 80 on your downwind so you can dump in your first notch before you turn base when even with the numbers. Now your on base around 78-80, second notch.(better not to add flaps while in a turn)Turn final slowing to bout 70, third notch.63-65 over airport fence. slow, slow and transition adjusting speed looking down the runway for a great landing. Airspeed is king!
Yes, airspeed in King, but the next thing that really worked for me was to look at the opposite end of the runway instead of where I thought I would touch down. It really did help, but to this day! I'm not too sure WHY it works.
Interesting concept with forgetting the word flare, i'll probably keep it with my students but explain it as you did. It's good to split it up into three parts, Approach, Roundout, and flare as they are all controlled differently
Jason, it's been about 20 years since I've been in the cockpit but I want to get back into aviation and go all the way to commercial. Any recommendations for getting current, refreshing my skills, and being confident that I can do this?
The trim wheel is your friend. Use it to manage airspeed. This is a great philosophy if you have a mile long runway and can float half way down the runway.
I mostly use peripheral vision and keep pulling to slow my sink rate (hopefully while being close to the ground).
captain its really helpful , like the way your explanation
"Flare / Transition".....six to one, half dozen to another. Same thing. I'll continue to "flare" my ride and land almost perfectly ever time as I have been the last 40 years.
He has a point though. When I first tried to land the Archer, I expected the profile to be more like a 737 on landing.
Again,,,thank you for time. Your awesome.
thanks Jason. my problem is that I can't estimate the glidepath and target the point to which I would touchdown. if I target the touchdown point (runway numbers, etc) it changes the profile of the plane to nose down. so I come in too high. that approach to the glidepath and having enough time to intercept it is a bit difficult for me at least.
All CFIs I know teach and emphasizes the first two and the flare is basically a slow flight above runway for a controlled stall by definition (pretty much what u described) also it may differ vastly for different a/c types ..Carrier planes don't flare unless they chose to for a runway landing.
My CFI has gone over several of these as well but it's funny you mention your speeds as my Katana we go 80 downwind, 70 base, and 60 on final and we certainly do flare lol. I find the word "transitional" interesting but simultaneously I'm a bit confused by it as the Cessna you're flying needs to flare, no? It makes sense if you're coming in level on a taildragger, but not in that cessna. I know the video is old as I'm posting this, but a response in this would be helpful
Thanks for the video. I couldn't agree more with the three speeds. After weeks of training and not being able to land without assistance from my instructor. He got fed up because I was continuously jacking with the power setting, pitching the nose up or down. He demonstrated what's was unthinkable. Once we at traffic pattern on down wind, he adjusted the power to 1500 RPMs, pulled out the carb heat and adjusted the trim, when the plane speed was in the white ark, he lowered the flaps 10 ' and adjust the trim to 80 knots descent. When it was time to turn on base, while hands were off the yoke, he turned left base only using the pedals and lowered the flaps to 30' then adjusted the trim to 70 knots. Still hands off, he turned to final with the pedals, lowered the flaps to 40' , trimmed to 60 knots. He said ok, I'm only going to "flair " to touch down onto the runway. Wow, perfect landing! After I witnessed this, it finally sank in, that I was overthinking the whole process. After that, I finally began to make good landings and soon after that I was able to solo. I'm not recommending anyone to try this type of landing but, yea if the setup is right, it will almost land itself.
Yikes! Turning with only the rudder, man you powered guys have it easy, your lucky you had that engine dragging you through the air. If you were actually "flying"...
Felipe Leal
An 150 at no power with 2 up and 20° trimmed to 70m/ 65k WILL.
Foeget the word "Flare"
Slow flight instead.
Great advise.
Greets from México.
Keep going.
I am a student pilot. I soloed after 4 hrs, my cfi said the reason he let me go so early is my landings were near perfect. I have been flying with my father in j-3's and super cub's (pa-18's). What you say about the flair has stirred up controversy but I get what you are saying. I could not get my landings down to save my life and because of this I was afraid to go after my private pilots license. I would make a good landing then wouldn't be able to repeat it, I was holding it off and flairing but didn't feel I know why some were good and some were terrifying and then an "old timer" asked me why I was yanking the stick back so hard? I said I'm flairing he told me not to flair and to fly the plane 2 feet off the ground until it stopped flying. That was it! I was coming in perfect and at the last moment I would yank the stick back into my lap and balloon or porpoise or go straight up again or if things were right I would land. After that I had it. That was the key. I thought a flair was pulling the stick to my gut every time I landed. Now even when my cfi tells me to flair I just keep flying with a little more back pressure and let the plane land then I hold the stick or yoke back. I've used a lot of words and don't feel I've said much but I agree that you don't need to flair a small plane
+Jim Dahlen so you didn't solo after 4 hours then..... lol. If you've been flying with your dad, you obviously have air experience. Not quite the quick learner your trying to make yourself out to be. Quite surprised your CFI has let you solo so early as you could not have gone through all the required demo training by an instructor that is mandatory to go solo, either that or your talking bull... I believe the latter.
What part of country are you in. You are welcome to land here and I will fly with you. One thing that is for sure there was no bull in anything I said. Also we absolutely covered everything that is required prior to solo and my cfi is 20 some years as an active Instictor here around New York New Jersey And Washington airspace
I never meant to imply I was as quick a learner as you
Right... BACK PRESSURE NOT CONTROL MOVEMENT.
Sound advice thanks I will take into considering!
This is awesome. Thank you! Let me add one more point which is really important "Altitude" I should be at 800f on base 600f for final.
So true. Of course, if your airspeeds, flaps and power settings are perfect, Altitude seems to fall in place automatically.
And 1/2 inch at landing. The previous is a way for neophyte pilots to learn to land the airplane. If and when they ever learn the approach is superfluous.
Think not, try to make a 90° left turn at 100 ft AGL into a 5000 msl mountain strip 1360 ft long.
Thank you!
Thank you Jason
Understanding buoyancy during the transition phase and 'holding off' does the trick.
In flight school years ago I had a habit of doing hot landings, a little fast. My CFI complained to me about it and I determined to fix that. On the next landing I drug that old C150 straight tail soooo slow I landed tail first. "Not that slow" he said. And here I am building a plane you can not land at or near full stall.
Does these principles apply to the way one would learn how to land bush planes?
Hello can I send you a video of my lending and can you tell me if I am doing something wrong
Thank you
Wondering if you have any advice for me. My landings are unassisted at this point but I continue to yaw left (I know, natural effect of torque...), but I feel when I’m centered that I’m aiming right, and “correct” it, which puts me into a left yaw. Thoughts on correcting this, other than the obvious need for right rudder. I feel i need something to zero in my view to keep from wanting to yaw left.
I have this same exact question. I ride a motorcycle, mountain bike, drive cars, all by seeing my targets. But, this left yaw is plaguing me in the airplane. Sometimes I train in a 150 other times a 152. I can fly the correct speeds, and use power to fly to the numbers fine, but during the last few seconds, perhaps when I raise the nose a bit before touch down, I must change to what looks straight, but it turns out to be a left yaw, with a hard jerk to the right when I touch down. When my instructor makes a correction for me, it appears like we are horribly yawing right, but the landing is smooth. Any tips on how to land perfectly straight? Thanks for the great videos. And thanks Earl for asking this question.
I fly 152 ..............please tell me about the speeds in the pattern that you like to see
great tips, thanks
Great tips, now if I could just remember them all...
Shared with my guys at Pittsburgh Flying Club. Thanks Jason!
Some planes require a different technique. Like the P-51, my RV-8 taildragger very much prefers wheel landings when flying solo, which are all about establishing a slow shallow descent slope until the mains gently touch down. You do not want to "drop" it onto the runway from any height, or you will likely porpoise. Approach speeds are also significantly higher due to the short wingspan. It does not like 3-point landings when solo..or even with a passenger onboard... as it is not fully-stalled at 3-point attitude. When solo there's barely enough elevator to establish 3-point attitude, and there's an aerodynamic tendency for 3-pointers to go "squirrely" on you right before touchdown.
For the aiming point technique it's not only Pitch for A/S and Power for altitude.
I have about 70 hrs in, taking my checkride in a few days. Manuvers have gone well, but I have always struggled with the landings (especially soft field)...Approach good, speed good, but I usually let the airplane land too quick ( aka don't hold it off). Plus when I do try to hold it off my nose is up higher enough so I can no longer see the runway centerline, thus landing off center. Passed the oral part of the checkride already (flight delayed due to weather), BUT all of a suddent very worried if I can even land to within PTS standards ! Flying a 172. Thanks for posting all the tips. I especially liked the one about foot position. I am shoe size 14 and have a real tendency to end up with most of my foot on the rudders (brakes!) which isn't good !
How did the check ride go? I struggle to land lines up straight at that point too.
thanks so much
Can’t wait for the webinar.
I teach 1 and 2, definitely not 3. Teaching at a 141 academy, they really want us to stress the roundout and flare, for future airline practice, seeing as most of our school contracts are foreign, and they get 250 and hit jet sims back home. Also, I teach pitch for aimpoint, and power for altittude. Pitch and and power used with those two simultaneously will get the airspeed you seek based on configuration. At least thats how I do it :)
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Semantical bull shit. A 727 flies just like a c150 if you dont have your head up your butt. Experience here.
@@hotrodray6802 hahaha i tried flying a TWA simulator like a cessna 150. was all over the place. much smaller input movements. had i known this difference would have had a better outcome
Compared to a 172, the 737 doesn't flare. It hits ground effect at 20' and you just pull off the thrust, very little flaring involved as its practically in the landing attitude on approach already. If airspeed gets over emphasised, your student will look inside too often. Some more tips: Cover the instrument panel during the approach, emphasis the correct seat position from day one, and teach how to judge "the point of impact" from day one when first demonstrating descents. Too high, too low, and/or changing seat positions from flight to flight introduces perceptual errors. The approach and landing are all done using outside visual cues.
I have a little trouble landing of the centerline, especially in crosswind landings. I tend to overcorrect with the rudder and not enough aileron and then i drift a little bit and land a little harder. all i can say is it takes time and using the ground effect as best as possible. My CFI says I land pretty decently its just not centering I have a little trouble with. It honestly just takes time with your CFI to get better and just more hours!
Thanks for your comment! Yes, you are absolutely right- mastery takes practice. Keep on practicing landings with your CFI and it'll click in no time! As always, if you need any further assistance please don't hesitate to email us at support@mzeroa.com. Fly safe!
Thank you ,,, big like for you
Your nickname must be "airspeed" because you are, "king!" Love your videos.
Great points! It only took me 750 landings to "get them!" That's what happens when you try to "tap" long-unused hand-eye coordination skills, beginning at age 65...
Nice, thanks for the great tips again! when you come along past the runway threshold, when on downwind, how far would you go out, to then turn onto base, 1nm ish?
Cheers.
When you are 45 degrees from the runway threshold.
Yes, thanks I just recently found that out doing lessons on flight simulator.
What we do at Riddle is when were are abeam to the threshold, power to 1500 flaps 10, at 300 below pattern altitude we turn base at 85 knots, flaps 20, 300 AGL we turn final flaps 30 at 65 knots. Hope this helps
Okay thanks, so when your abeam the threshold you start descending? then 300 below pattern, you do as you said yeh.
On a pa 28 I was taught the following. After turning onto base leg, carb heat on, power to 1900rpm, slow down before you go down, speed in the white arc, flaps 2, speed to 70 knots. Turn onto final, report final, once approach is stable add drag flap if needed, speed at 70 and 60 over the threshold.
Cool
sensible tips
my cfi only taught me short runway landings.....never ever let me touch down late...and never let me fly a long final....after a while you learn to fly the plane all the way to the fence (90, 80, 70, 60 retrospectively) .....plane lands itself.....first turn-out every time....
Wait so with control of pitch for speed and throttle for altitude, what if I wanna go faster and up, I pitch down and throttle up? Doesn’t seem right, can you help me?
Hi Nic! Please email us at support@mzeroa.com so that we can give you a thorough, detailed explanation. We would love to help! Thank you for watching!
Really, helpfull
What would be really helpful if you would include what your power settings are when you are at 90, 80 and 70. The biggest thing I learned in my instrument training is how to configure the airplane at the various power settings.
Bring it over the fence... get close to the ground... nose it up slowly and wait for the airplane to stop flying. You'll make a perfect landing.
Had a terrible time learning to land, my instructor gave up and had me fly with another instructor, he spotted my problem, had me look at far end of runway, and said forget about landing, it worked.
This actually helped
In the UK, Flare is called Round Out.
When power is variable, pitch controls flight path, and power controls speed.
When you are flying VFR, do you look at instruments when landing i.e air speed when landing? Sorry i'm not a pilot.
Landings are done visually. So no, you are not checking instruments during the final phases of a landing. You are flying the airplane by reference to the landing area, or runway, and using controls to make the aircraft do what you need it to do. Because things are always changing, you are always working to keep things looking right (zero drift, nose pointed straight down the runway, and basically keeping things right until the airplane is done flying).
Surely the one instrument you keep checking on final is airspeed! Other than frequent glances to confirm airspeed your eyes should be on the runway by then!
Trimmed properly and flying by back pressure feel, looking at AS is superfluous. A technique rarely taught today.... get your head out of the cockpit!!!
S SAP back pressure feel is the amount of rearward force your fingers exert holding the elevator yoke back. If adjusted for 5# pressure for the chosen speed, the pressure feel will change with airspeed changes. Less pressure = more speed, v.v. So youre flying by feel not wasting time looking at an instrument. Example.. when driving if you look 2 seconds at your phone, how far have you traveled? Not a good idea in car or airplane near the groubd. Got it?
When you float and float and have a bit of trouble landing, do you recommend picking up your flaps to force a landing?...I do and I kinda got used to it.. I got use to a flap retraction for my landing procedures...Give me you opinion please...
If you have trouble with floating, then you are carrying way too much extra airspeed. 1.3 vso is the guideline. You are not the master of the aircraft if you cannot put it where you want it....I have witnessed a nose wheel fixed gear retraction, following a Cessna on final, "forcing" it down! Not only clumsy, but dangerous as well!
I'm saying, when you have to much wind head on wind, it works wonders for me, to preform a flap retraction just before touch down, never had any problems at all..
If you are asking should you do that regularly, the answer is no. What happens when you are high one day and don't realize it? You are gonna drop like a rock if you suddenly retract the flaps right above Vso. Only time I've seen that done is when I was with a Bush pilot in Africa once and a go around wasn't an option. He had to get it on the ground but it didn't want to settle so he did what he had to do. But that's not a normal, safe landing technique.
A strong head wind should make it easier to land, not harder.
I do land on short dirt strips and dried lakes in the desert, some times on dirt roads, so I
guess I learned this procedure, as a bush pilot, I'm so used to it, that I use it regularly, it works for me... thanks for your comment.
I use the same airspeeds, but AFH/POH for 172 does not agree with us.
8000 hours instruction given 7 years ago! How do you keep so enthusiastic?
+1 on looking down the runway on landings...
However, I disagree with your pitch, power, airspeed and altitude analysis. They are defintiely interrelated, but in the '90s the discussion was resolved by the Feds once and for all... The DIRECT correlations for airspeed and altitude are
* THROTTLE controls airspeed
- Too slow? ADD POWER
- Too fast? REDUCE Power
* PITCH controls altitude or rate of change of altitude
- Too high? Pitch down, if airspeed increases, DECREASE POWER
- Too low" Pitch up, if airspeed decays, ADD POWER
- Descending too fast? Pitch UP, adjust power to control speed
- Descending too slowly? Pitch DOWN, adjust power to control speed
Students can relate easily to these descriptions, as they incorporate positive transfer from driving a car. Students have more difficulty wrapping their heads around the unfamiliar concept of pitch controlling airspeed. Additionally, they need to unlearn that meme if they go on to fly larger airplanes. If an MD80 pilot is too fast on short final and pitches up, the result will be impacting the touchdown zone at the same vertical speed but a higher pitch attitude. The answer to airspeed excursions is adjusting power, and it works the same on a C-150 as it does a B767.
Likely the best example is in windshear recovery. LOSS of airspeed requires immediate INCREASE of power and LOSS of altitude demands INCREASE in pitch.
If airspeed controls power, and elevator controls altitude.... try parking on the end of the runway with the engine idling, and start pumping the elevator to get to 3,000 feet before adding the power.
You are fantastic dude,
John Acosta apiloto?
soon to be
What's a 3 point landing?
Good info
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching, Earl!