oh my gosh, i had no idea that the train that i used to climb over and gawk at in Busselton had such history, it was in pretty sorry nick back then but this brought back a lot of memories
I did know about the Talyllyn railway but never I'm a million years would I have known that this locomotive in Australia existed, such unknown interesting history, lovely stuff
I've learnt now, Anthony. I make sure the volume is turned down on my computer sound system, so I don't hit the ceiling with fright when the opening whistle goes off. It's nice to see a story of both my birth country (Wales) and my adopted country Australia.
As a British enthusiast I knew of Dolgoch and her part in the preservation story, but had honestly never heard of her Australian counterpart...You've pleasantly surprised me yet again!
@steam driver I recall that they also built some of their larger tank engines to a design based on what they had once ordered from Beyer Peacock. Those BP engines had been built to almost the exact same design as the Isle of Wight Railway's original locomotives.
Was not expecting this. Thanks for the coverage on these light railways. Some good research sources behind this. I was not aware of the Tallylyn connection. The city of Ballarat developed so much engineering capabilities due to the gold rush from 1851. After a while gold was less available for picking up off the ground and needed more mechanised methods. Eventually of the order of hundreds of billions of dollars worth of gold was extracted. This wealth provided a ready market for local industries to service mining needs and financed so extravagant early railway building. Another local foundry the Phoenix foundry also built a locomotive in 1871 for the Western Australian government railways but this has not survived. A Phoenix 1878 copy of a Beyer Peacock 2-4-0 is the oldest preserved locomotive in Victoria but converted to a 2-4-2T. Not entirely clear if Beyer Peacock had an agreement with the Victorian Railways to provide a single pattern engine and plans at a higher cost so that the locomotives could be made in Australia. Phoenix built 352 locomotives to 38 designs, so the most successful of private firms making steam locomotives in Australia. Their first was in 1861 to run on wooden rails in New Zealand. The Victorian Railways called their station Ballarat and the aa spelling gradually went out of use. Amusing that many UA-cam history videos seem to do a google search for Victorian Railways and end up using images of local Phoenix engines from the 1800s..
The New Zealand loco you mention was named Lady Barkly. The makers are always quoted as Hunt & Opie. Two more locos were made in Ballarat for the same railway, they were made by Robinson Thomas and Co. at their Soho works in 1864.
Like so much of your content Anthony, this marvelous tale of three was new to me, and and most enjoyable. I'm in Australia right now (unable to leave in fact) and have the time to pop down there for a visit - 10 hours by car.
I live near Whitehaven in Cumbria UK , where Lowca Engine works was based and saw this loco on the sea front in Busselton on a visit to Australia . It was the nineties and I am sure the plaque stated the loco was built in Lowca . Only wish I had got some pictures . Very pleased to see the loco restored and looked after .
What an fascinating story. I thought I knew both locos reasonably well but never suspected the connection between them - Well done, Anthony! The important but separate relevance of both locomotives in Railway History adds a further dimension to this intriguing story. Although there's a significant gauge discrepancy, I still agree with Anthony Dawson that a meeting of the two locos would be 'nice' (although I think I would use a stronger word) but I must admit that this would be EXTREMELY unlikely! (That said, forty years ago, who would have predicted that the LNER's 4472, 'Flying Scotsman', would run double headed with the GWR's 4079, Pendennis Castle, in Perth, Western Australia! - For those of you who don't know, this actually happened in 1989 - Happy Days!)
A very interesting story. Who knew? I am so glad it was recovered and saved. The restoration looks very good. Thank you for another informative video. 😊👍
Nice to see you doing a bit of our very interesting railway history, Anthony! Might I suggest you look into the NSWGR 79 (C, later 12 class) 4-4-0 express locomotives which had their beginnings in the 'Metropolitan' 4-4-0T locomotives. They were front line express power from introduction in 1877, then gradually cascaded to lesser duties as more modern power was introduced and saw out their last days in the 1950s on light branchlines. Three of them 1210, 1219 and 1243 have been preserved.
Fascinating to see another one of these bizarre well tank locomotives, they even managed to replicate the cast spokes. Out of all the random suitable small locomotives to copy, it's odd that they picked the Fletcher-Jennings one with the janky front crank axle. I love the wood boiler cladding, though! The old photos of the lokie on the timber railway are about the most stereotypically Aussie train photos I could imagine.
It's amazing to me how locomotive designs get around. Like sure, most of Australia's designs have traces of either British, American, or European design, but for an engine as (relatively) obscure as the Jennings 0-4-0WT to be adapted is just amazing to me
I found the story very interesting, my great great grandfather John Carthew who emigrated from Redruth, Cornwall with his family worked at a neighbouring foundry in Ballarat, the Phoenix Foundry.
You will be happy to hear that Y112, built at the Phoenix Foundry in 1889 is still based at Ballarat East in conjunction with Steam rail, at Newport in Melbourne. Still active as of a week or so past as part of the Steam rail tour to Wyche proof, Western Victoria.
@@johnhaller7017 Wow, what a coincidence I saw Y112 pass Watergardens Station last week. When I looked up the history of Y112 I realised I saw the train being moved to be on display outside the Ballarat Civic Centre with my father, probably very early 70’s. A temporary track was laid with rails and sleepers from the station to the new site. Unfortunately my great great grandfather wouldn’t have part of the building of Y112, he died of typhus in February 1886.
@@richardcarthew4893 Y112 has real charisma, especially on Warrenheip Bank. I used to live in Ligar St and used to take photos when I heard the Steam Rail Locos pull in at Ballarat Station. Hopefully Steam Rail will be running the Ballarat Shuttles again this year. They used to run them with D3 639 and Y112 , or K190 out to Lal Lal, before covid hit. When you look back into history, you realize how tough it was for everyone. Your Great great Grandfather died of typhus. My Great Grandfather came to Ballarat from Britain in 1851. 29 people died on board that ship on the journey from Britain to Portland, where they disembarked. My Great Grandfather was one of the lucky ones. It's so great that Steamrail helps to preserve these old steamers. Cheers.
john d, not many people in south western australia knew the name of the steam engine that, 30 years ago, was just to the north of margaret river. i won a pub quiz at the settlers tavern because i'd stopped and had a look at "kate" and knew the name. no-one else knew it. not even the locals.
That fact that this thing still exists is just AMAZING. It sure is ugly, but great in its own way. Edit: may I suggest a replica of the tender be made. It would complete the look.
Nope, you couldn't call her pretty by any means, but built for functionality. What I find odd, is the spacing between wheel sets. She looks like she should have been an 0-6-0, but is missing the centre set. I always thought, if the the wheel sets are too far apart, then going around a curve, could cause a derailment.
I'd be curious to know why the restorers didn't deem useful to equip the front plate with a pair of buffers - all the more than the fitting and bolt holes are obviously present.
I would strongly recommend Vol. 1 of Martin Fuller's book "Talyllyn and Corris Steam Locomotives. As well as including information about Ballaarat it also includes a very interesting chapter devoted to the history of the Lowca works including details of the first Crampton which had been built there by Tulk and Ley, Fletcher Jennings predecessor.
I've read it. We had a very very long discussion about Ballaarat a few years ago. His book perpetuates one of the myths around Ballaarat that form Fletcher, Jennings men emigrated to Ballarat hence the loco looking so much like an F,J product, rather than what Australian sources say which is that components such as wheels, cylindesr and boiler plate were imported from Britain. It was cheaper to import those components and build a loco in Australia than it was to import a complete one. The full set of his books are great, especialyl as Vol. 3 corrects some of his earlier errors. :-)
Surprised the railway series (aka: the OG Thomas books) never thought to bring this engine up at some point. Probably would've been some interesting potential there.
The 3 ft 6 in and narrower gauge developments especially Queensland and Western Australia caused some big controversy in 5 ft 3 in gauge Victoria In the 1870s. A political push for new cheap narrow gauge lines imagined to be half the cost. This was after money became scarce with the gradual mining decline. Rail management were aware of break of gauge costs so got away with introducing lightly layed lines instead. Lines with simple wooden bridges and stations, lighter rail and light axle load locomotives. A near thing that we could have major traffic's transhipping from large lengths of two gauges in Victoria. Eventually shorter lengths of 2 ft 6 in gauge were layed starting in 1898. The four narrow gauge mostly mountainous lines were built but under political pressure for new cheap lines, but did not deliver the savings and benefits expected. One survives as the Puffing Billy line. More detail here : railstory.org/introduction/
It occured to me that this is one of the few locomotives built where the steam dome is made to be visible as opposed to the usual dome shade or dome cover that is usually called a dome. A cost saving measure or a deliberate design feature so that steam dome leaks could be better detected early on?
Cost savng measure - dome covers were usually cast from brass. Or a pressing. Very expensive to do. And to be honest unnecessary in a bush tramway loco.A big dome cover would improve her appearance no end but one never seems to have been made.
Another brill vid but a note on Australian pronunciation: Vowels are rarely stressed, so Melbourne is melb'un , Ballarat is said almost as one syllable, tho the weird double a spelling would be close to ball-aah-rat :D
(Note this 🙂) We don't spell the town name with the "double a" anymore. It's long been simply "Ballarat." So perhaps "Bal-uh-rat" would be the best way to pronounce it. I won't go into detail here with local and outsider names for what is today not such a nice town in regards to many of its inhabitants... No dig at you #ChrisGurney, just saying from someone who lives in the town.
Maybe. Maybe not. The construction costs of Broad Gauge were far, far higher than Standard. The problem with the UK is that the loading gauge was defined early and its the smallest in Europe and tiny compared to the USA. So we could never exploit the railway to their maximum extent. Compare something like Bigboy in the USA to Evening Star They're both the same gauge, designed to do the same job, but Evening Star looks like a toy. Same with the 3ft 6in gauge South African Railways Garratt at MOSI which bigger than something like Tornado or Duke of Gloucester (both visited). Because we had such a restrictive loading gauge thanks to all those 1830s tunnels, and bridges built for something like Planet. Even Brunel didn't exploit his loading gauge either. Whilst early Broad Gauge locomotives dwarfed their Standard Gauge contemporaries, the SG pretty quickly caught up in terms of size. It's not so much the gauge which is important but the loading gauge and dynamic envelope which determine how big you can build your locomotive and carriages.
@@DiegoLiger These dimensions are probably out of date now but illustrate your point: COUNTRY. HEIGHT. WIDTH UK 13' 6". 9' 6" USA 16' 6" 10' 6" Sth.Africa 13' 0" 10' 0" Europe 14' 0.5" 10' 2" N.Zealand(old) 11' 6" 8' 6" N.Zealand(now) 12' 10". 9' 9"
I've heard of this loco, but not its connection to Dolgoch of the Tallylyn Railway in Wales. I live in the town (I don't see it as a city) of Ballarat (note later spelling) and know of its railway history. Sadly, where "Ballaarat" was built is today no longer, the other site (the Phoenix Foundry) being part of a third-rate shopping centre with only a small monument as to what once was. I had no idea too, that there had been anywhere in Mair St that had had railway connections in any way. I'd love to know exactly where that was as I am up and down Mair St most days as part of my work in the town. Sadly now the only real remnant of the deep past in relation to Ballarat is a dormant railway workshop at Ballarat North, and the locomotive Y112 which features in a few of my videos, including one to be released Monday 31/5/21 at 11am UK time.
Also surviving are Phoenix built F 176 2-4-2T, T 94 0-6-0 and Y 108 0-6-0 at the Newport railway museum near North Williamstown railway station. Some of the plinthed D3s rusting away around the state may be some of the last Phoenix built locomotives.
@@johnd8892 Well pointed out. I was only thinking of Y112 as it's currently here in Ballarat. There is a plinthed D3 at Ballarat Workshops that may be an example of a Phoenix Foundry engine.
@@johnd8892 Ah yes! Another forgotten engine! I wonder what became of that? Was it, as you suggest, stripped for parts for Y112, or is it sitting neglected somewhere??
Insulation - to keep the heat in and make the boiler more thermally efficient. The cladding gets charred over time but never burns. Even when metal cladding was used on boilers and cylinders from later in the C19th wood cladding was still used. Hope this helps :-)
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory , when the chinese were building reusable space shuttles (or trying to - i cant remember how successful they were) they were using some form of charcoal while the yanks were using exotic high tech materials.
Some Australian Hardwoods don't burn very well, others more typically, burn well on the surface, which then remains as a charcoal insulator protecting the inside timber.
I wonder if Ballarat is in the same gadge of that of the tallylyn railway. Maybe we could and I do say "could" have the two meet in the near future probably for tallylyn's and delgoth's 200th birthday
I live in good old busso so see this engine a lot. Thing has been through a lot while on display and would be great to see it run again. But it is way too far gone
i happened to be reading about ballaarat recently so this video was timely. there was no mention about its design heritage in the article which i can no longer find. anyway i brought up the wikipedia page about the phoenix foundry of ballarat. it states that they built the first steam loco in western australia the governor weld. so i asked google what is the first steam locomotive in western australia? google stated that it was menzies and that it still existed. i couldnt find anything about menzies beyond google's claim. anyway, i know there was a much earlier steam loco in wa. it was a road traction engine brought out in the 1850's to pull 3 or 4 wagons of lead ore to geraldton from a mine inland. this may well rate as the world's first road train. (they are now euphemistically referred to as high productivity freight vehicles). it was not successful - the roads were too sandy and boggy. about 30 years ago, the sunday times newspaper ran a campaign to find parts of it. some parts were recovered. there is nothing on the internet about this.
The first loco built in Ballarat was built in 1861, at the Victoria Foundry (which later built Ballaarat): the Lady Barkly, for service in New Zealand. transportationhistory.org/2018/08/08/she-was-a-trailblazer-in-new-zealand/
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory Why does the loco have the "AA" in the middle of the word Ballaarat, whereas the city is Ballarat, with only one a in the middle?
@@DrivermanO The area was originally named Ballaarat with 2 A's in 1837 by a Scottish farmer who settled the area and created a large sheep farm. The 1A version of the name wasn't officially adopted by the city until 1996 . So the loco spelling is the original name for the area and town at the time and for most of its history.
engines of this vintage are not exactly uncommon in Australia. Queensland Rail still maintains and occasionally operates mainline tours with an 0-4-2 tender engine of 1865 vintage
@@mickcarson8504 thought you meant the locomotive and not the change in spelling over time. More info on the spelling of Ballarat www.thecourier.com.au/story/4839355/from-ballaarat-to-ballarat-whats-really-in-a-name/
@@johnd8892 Holly cow! Is that true? And I have been calling it Ballarat since the first day at school. WTF? (☺ Red face). Now I will have to call it Ballaaaaaratta. Dad used to call it Balla e va te la ratta. 🤣
They could've ordered an actual FJ Bb to 3'6" gauge for less fuss. Somehow, I find her beautiful, not quite as pretty as Dolgoch herself, but attractive in her own unique way.
You'd have thought that, but it was cheaper to imoprt the things like whels, cylinders and springs than a complete locomotive due to the cost of shipping and, more importantly, because the State Government in 1870 plonked a 15% import tarrif on things like locomotives and other pieces of imported machinery in order to stimulate the local, Australian, industry. Thus, it was cheaper to build a locomotive in Australia using some imported components than it was to imoport a complete locomotive. Plus, it was also quicker. :-)
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory A Victorian state import duty only. No Australian government until 1901. It was likely the government of the colony/state of Victoria that adopted protectionist policies to develop local industry. Especially the then radical government elected in Victoria by much wider adult male suffrage and secret ballots. This was different to the free trade policies of New South Wales with rural wealthy landowners somehow having much more say in government there. More people having devalued votes in NSW and even issues at one stage with government employed railway workers having to fight to be able to vote. Not widely taught these days. Resulted in customs checkpoints at the border. Made change of gauge less of an issue since goods and people had to go through customs for inter colonial travel and trade. As a result Victoria developed much more industry as well as gold related population advantage. Population leadership of Victoria lost in the massive 1890s depression. Free trade between states was a major issue in the move to create the Commonwealth Federation of Australia. A common level of import duties then was put in place for just overseas imports. Led to Victorian companies like Phoenix Foundry building many more locomotives for the Victorian Railways often from pattern engines of Beyer Peacock and Kitsons, then later to local designs. NSW railways had a much higher level of direct imports in turn in this period mainly Beyer Peacock. Shipping still a major expense for both also with the problem of sea damage. Local construction developed a local knowledge pool as well. Much of the change in political representation arose at Ballarat after the Eureka Stockade uprising in 1854, with leader Peter Lalor being tried for treason under sentence of death, but being found not guilty by the jury of his peers and moving on in railway construction and being a member of Parliament soon after.
Thanks for your clarification. In the original 1870s newspapers I was reading it referred to merely "government" - but I was aware there was no Aus-wide Government. I really must read-up on my Aus history!
As a non-Brit, side buffers on narrow gauge stock look so weird. I know they're quite common with minimal gauge but those are kind of a different category.
Here are buffers on a broad gauge Rogers locomotive livinghistories.newcastle.edu.au/nodes/view/87037 Victorian Railways Australia, often took over westbound trains from Ballarat station.
Absinthe, here in Australia, both the Queensland Government Railways and the Tasmanian Government Railways (both 3'6") used hooks and side buffers until quite recently.
It has been simplified to that spelling now, but in the very early years it was spelt with a double a. Lasted into the 1990s for the rural shire official name.
oh my gosh, i had no idea that the train that i used to climb over and gawk at in Busselton had such history, it was in pretty sorry nick back then but this brought back a lot of memories
As someone who current lives in the city of Ballarat, this is quite interesting to see!
i live in ballarat but never new this, also i love how it highlights ballarats original spelling
The fact that it even has survived this long is amazing!
Maybe one day they will meet.
I did know about the Talyllyn railway but never I'm a million years would I have known that this locomotive in Australia existed, such unknown interesting history, lovely stuff
Well this was certainly an eye-opener for me. I didn't know Dolgoch had an Australian cousin.
I've learnt now, Anthony. I make sure the volume is turned down on my computer sound system, so I don't hit the ceiling with fright when the opening whistle goes off. It's nice to see a story of both my birth country (Wales) and my adopted country Australia.
Hey I live in Ballarat! Thanks for covering this locomotive!!!
As a British enthusiast I knew of Dolgoch and her part in the preservation story, but had honestly never heard of her Australian counterpart...You've pleasantly surprised me yet again!
@steam driver I recall that they also built some of their larger tank engines to a design based on what they had once ordered from Beyer Peacock. Those BP engines had been built to almost the exact same design as the Isle of Wight Railway's original locomotives.
It's*
Was not expecting this. Thanks for the coverage on these light railways. Some good research sources behind this.
I was not aware of the Tallylyn connection.
The city of Ballarat developed so much engineering capabilities due to the gold rush from 1851. After a while gold was less available for picking up off the ground and needed more mechanised methods.
Eventually of the order of hundreds of billions of dollars worth of gold was extracted. This wealth provided a ready market for local industries to service mining needs and financed so extravagant early railway building. Another local foundry the Phoenix foundry also built a locomotive in 1871 for the Western Australian government railways but this has not survived. A Phoenix 1878 copy of a Beyer Peacock 2-4-0 is the oldest preserved locomotive in Victoria but converted to a 2-4-2T. Not entirely clear if Beyer Peacock had an agreement with the Victorian Railways to provide a single pattern engine and plans at a higher cost so that the locomotives could be made in Australia. Phoenix built 352 locomotives to 38 designs, so the most successful of private firms making steam locomotives in Australia. Their first was in 1861 to run on wooden rails in New Zealand.
The Victorian Railways called their station Ballarat and the aa spelling gradually went out of use.
Amusing that many UA-cam history videos seem to do a google search for Victorian Railways and end up using images of local Phoenix engines from the 1800s..
The New Zealand loco you mention was named Lady Barkly. The makers are always quoted as Hunt & Opie. Two more locos were made in Ballarat for the same railway, they were made by Robinson Thomas and Co. at their Soho works in 1864.
Like so much of your content Anthony, this marvelous tale of three was new to me, and and most enjoyable.
I'm in Australia right now (unable to leave in fact) and have the time to pop down there for a visit - 10 hours by car.
As someone who lives in Victoria, it is interesting to see one of our products featured on this channel!
I live near Whitehaven in Cumbria UK , where Lowca Engine works was based and saw this loco on the sea front in Busselton on a visit to Australia . It was the nineties and I am sure the plaque stated the loco was built in Lowca . Only wish I had got some pictures . Very pleased to see the loco restored and looked after .
I live in the city of Ballarat (we've dropped an a from the name) and I have a strong urge to visit this little chugger.
Thanks for the video!
Thankyou. Let me know if and when you do! :-)
Yeah ive never known this, definitely give me something to do...well next weekend anyway
What an fascinating story. I thought I knew both locos reasonably well but never suspected the connection between them - Well done, Anthony! The important but separate relevance of both locomotives in Railway History adds a further dimension to this intriguing story. Although there's a significant gauge discrepancy, I still agree with Anthony Dawson that a meeting of the two locos would be 'nice' (although I think I would use a stronger word) but I must admit that this would be EXTREMELY unlikely! (That said, forty years ago, who would have predicted that the LNER's 4472, 'Flying Scotsman', would run double headed with the GWR's 4079, Pendennis Castle, in Perth, Western Australia! - For those of you who don't know, this actually happened in 1989 - Happy Days!)
Brilliant - very informative and extremely interesting, as a person with a distinct interest in Ballarat history I am most grateful - thank you
My pleasure. Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent! Thanks from Downunder, matey %~))
No problem 👍
The name of the loco threw me a bit. First the spelling of Ballarat, then the loco being in Western Australia.
I had no idea this engine existed. Thank you for sharing this unique engine's history with us.
Thanks for watching!
Remarkable way of narration, rather unique.
A very interesting story. Who knew? I am so glad it was recovered and saved. The restoration looks very good. Thank you for another informative video. 😊👍
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Many thanks :-)
Nice to see you doing a bit of our very interesting railway history, Anthony! Might I suggest you look into the NSWGR 79 (C, later 12 class) 4-4-0 express locomotives which had their beginnings in the 'Metropolitan' 4-4-0T locomotives. They were front line express power from introduction in 1877, then gradually cascaded to lesser duties as more modern power was introduced and saw out their last days in the 1950s on light branchlines. Three of them 1210, 1219 and 1243 have been preserved.
Fascinating to see another one of these bizarre well tank locomotives, they even managed to replicate the cast spokes. Out of all the random suitable small locomotives to copy, it's odd that they picked the Fletcher-Jennings one with the janky front crank axle. I love the wood boiler cladding, though!
The old photos of the lokie on the timber railway are about the most stereotypically Aussie train photos I could imagine.
Now this vid has made it to be your third most watched video.
And I thought you were brave covering such an obscure and far away locomotive.
Would love to see one of those running one day! Interesting stuff. :-)
It's amazing to me how locomotive designs get around. Like sure, most of Australia's designs have traces of either British, American, or European design, but for an engine as (relatively) obscure as the Jennings 0-4-0WT to be adapted is just amazing to me
I found the story very interesting, my great great grandfather John Carthew who emigrated from Redruth, Cornwall with his family worked at a neighbouring foundry in Ballarat, the Phoenix Foundry.
What a great piece of family history! Thank you for sharing!
You will be happy to hear that Y112, built at the Phoenix Foundry in 1889 is still based at Ballarat East in
conjunction with Steam rail, at Newport in Melbourne. Still active as of a week or so past as part of the Steam rail tour to Wyche proof, Western Victoria.
@@johnhaller7017 Wow, what a coincidence I saw Y112 pass Watergardens Station last week. When I looked up the history of Y112 I realised I saw the train being moved to be on display outside the Ballarat Civic Centre with my father, probably very early 70’s. A temporary track was laid with rails and sleepers from the station to the new site. Unfortunately my great great grandfather wouldn’t have part of the building of Y112, he died of typhus in February 1886.
@@richardcarthew4893 Y112 has real charisma, especially on Warrenheip Bank. I used to live in Ligar St and used to take photos when I heard the Steam Rail Locos pull in at Ballarat Station. Hopefully Steam Rail will be running the Ballarat Shuttles again this year. They used to run them with D3 639 and Y112 , or K190 out to Lal Lal, before covid hit. When you look back into history, you realize how tough it was for everyone. Your Great great Grandfather died of typhus. My Great Grandfather came to Ballarat from Britain in 1851. 29 people died on board that ship on the journey from Britain to Portland, where they disembarked. My Great Grandfather was one of the lucky ones. It's so great that Steamrail helps to preserve these old steamers. Cheers.
Not a widely known story even in Australia since it was destined for an isolated short life in remote Western Australia, unknown to many.
john d, not many people in south western australia knew the name of the steam engine that, 30 years ago, was just to the north of margaret river. i won a pub quiz at the settlers tavern because i'd stopped and had a look at "kate" and knew the name. no-one else knew it. not even the locals.
That fact that this thing still exists is just AMAZING. It sure is ugly, but great in its own way.
Edit: may I suggest a replica of the tender be made. It would complete the look.
Nope, you couldn't call her pretty by any means, but built for functionality. What I find odd, is the spacing between wheel sets. She looks like she should have been an 0-6-0, but is missing the centre set. I always thought, if the the wheel sets are too far apart, then going around a curve, could cause a derailment.
I agree on the tender thing. It already looks unfinished.
A fantastic video! I've modeled and built the Ballaarat in 5g, it's a great steamer and runner. I can only imagine what the large loco was like!
Very cool!
Your videos are very good! Would you mind if I put a link to this video on the model engineering forum?
@@Lukers_tinkering Feel free!
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory forum posting for the Ballaarat if you interested: www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=173152#2722834
@@Lukers_tinkering fantastic!
We even had a locomotive works here in Ballarat called the Phoenix Foundry
Indeed. Although Ballaarat was built at the Victoria Foundry.
I'd be curious to know why the restorers didn't deem useful to equip the front plate with a pair of buffers - all the more than the fitting and bolt holes are obviously present.
Having recently watched Lawrie's video on Dolgoch, this was a treat indeed (even if Dolgoch's valve gear still confuses me)
I love your pronunciation of the Welsh names!
My great uncle, Percy Reynolds, owned the farm Lockville, and he managed in the people in Busselton to take Ballarat.
That's amazing. Thank you for sharing your family history
I would strongly recommend Vol. 1 of Martin Fuller's book "Talyllyn and Corris Steam Locomotives. As well as including information about Ballaarat it also includes a very interesting chapter devoted to the history of the Lowca works including details of the first Crampton which had been built there by Tulk and Ley, Fletcher Jennings predecessor.
I've read it. We had a very very long discussion about Ballaarat a few years ago. His book perpetuates one of the myths around Ballaarat that form Fletcher, Jennings men emigrated to Ballarat hence the loco looking so much like an F,J product, rather than what Australian sources say which is that components such as wheels, cylindesr and boiler plate were imported from Britain. It was cheaper to import those components and build a loco in Australia than it was to import a complete one. The full set of his books are great, especialyl as Vol. 3 corrects some of his earlier errors. :-)
Surprised the railway series (aka: the OG Thomas books) never thought to bring this engine up at some point.
Probably would've been some interesting potential there.
brilliant
You should do a video on the Horseless carriage I think this would make for a good video
Very interesting.
Glad you think so!
The 3 ft 6 in and narrower gauge developments especially Queensland and Western Australia caused some big controversy in 5 ft 3 in gauge Victoria In the 1870s.
A political push for new cheap narrow gauge lines imagined to be half the cost. This was after money became scarce with the gradual mining decline. Rail management were aware of break of gauge costs so got away with introducing lightly layed lines instead. Lines with simple wooden bridges and stations, lighter rail and light axle load locomotives. A near thing that we could have major traffic's transhipping from large lengths of two gauges in Victoria. Eventually shorter lengths of 2 ft 6 in gauge were layed starting in 1898. The four narrow gauge mostly mountainous lines were built but under political pressure for new cheap lines, but did not deliver the savings and benefits expected. One survives as the Puffing Billy line.
More detail here :
railstory.org/introduction/
It occured to me that this is one of the few locomotives built where the steam dome is made to be visible as opposed to the usual dome shade or dome cover that is usually called a dome.
A cost saving measure or a deliberate design feature so that steam dome leaks could be better detected early on?
Cost savng measure - dome covers were usually cast from brass. Or a pressing. Very expensive to do. And to be honest unnecessary in a bush tramway loco.A big dome cover would improve her appearance no end but one never seems to have been made.
I enjoy these videos of early steam engines.
Another brill vid but a note on Australian pronunciation: Vowels are rarely stressed, so Melbourne is melb'un , Ballarat is said almost as one syllable, tho the weird double a spelling would be close to ball-aah-rat :D
Baller rat
(Note this 🙂) We don't spell the town name with the "double a" anymore. It's long been simply "Ballarat." So perhaps "Bal-uh-rat" would be the best way to pronounce it. I won't go into detail here with local and outsider names for what is today not such a nice town in regards to many of its inhabitants... No dig at you #ChrisGurney, just saying from someone who lives in the town.
@@tobys_transport_videos I guess it's like Canberra XD us natives hate the long drawn out Canbeeraa country folks use XD
@@chrisgurney2467 So, you prefer "Can-bra"! ;)
they seem to have lost an A in the city name now.
Would the GWR broad gauge have been more beneficial for the network had it been more widely adopted?
Maybe. Maybe not. The construction costs of Broad Gauge were far, far higher than Standard. The problem with the UK is that the loading gauge was defined early and its the smallest in Europe and tiny compared to the USA. So we could never exploit the railway to their maximum extent. Compare something like Bigboy in the USA to Evening Star They're both the same gauge, designed to do the same job, but Evening Star looks like a toy. Same with the 3ft 6in gauge South African Railways Garratt at MOSI which bigger than something like Tornado or Duke of Gloucester (both visited). Because we had such a restrictive loading gauge thanks to all those 1830s tunnels, and bridges built for something like Planet. Even Brunel didn't exploit his loading gauge either. Whilst early Broad Gauge locomotives dwarfed their Standard Gauge contemporaries, the SG pretty quickly caught up in terms of size. It's not so much the gauge which is important but the loading gauge and dynamic envelope which determine how big you can build your locomotive and carriages.
@@DiegoLiger These dimensions are probably out of date now but illustrate your point:
COUNTRY. HEIGHT. WIDTH
UK 13' 6". 9' 6"
USA 16' 6" 10' 6"
Sth.Africa 13' 0" 10' 0"
Europe 14' 0.5" 10' 2"
N.Zealand(old) 11' 6" 8' 6"
N.Zealand(now) 12' 10". 9' 9"
i live in WA so this is pretty interesting
ive known of Ballaarat for some years but not the connection with Dolgoch
I've heard of this loco, but not its connection to Dolgoch of the Tallylyn Railway in Wales. I live in the town (I don't see it as a city) of Ballarat (note later spelling) and know of its railway history. Sadly, where "Ballaarat" was built is today no longer, the other site (the Phoenix Foundry) being part of a third-rate shopping centre with only a small monument as to what once was. I had no idea too, that there had been anywhere in Mair St that had had railway connections in any way. I'd love to know exactly where that was as I am up and down Mair St most days as part of my work in the town.
Sadly now the only real remnant of the deep past in relation to Ballarat is a dormant railway workshop at Ballarat North, and the locomotive Y112 which features in a few of my videos, including one to be released Monday 31/5/21 at 11am UK time.
Also surviving are Phoenix built F 176 2-4-2T, T 94 0-6-0 and Y 108 0-6-0 at the Newport railway museum near North Williamstown railway station. Some of the plinthed D3s rusting away around the state may be some of the last Phoenix built locomotives.
@@johnd8892 Well pointed out. I was only thinking of Y112 as it's currently here in Ballarat. There is a plinthed D3 at Ballarat Workshops that may be an example of a Phoenix Foundry engine.
@@tobys_transport_videos there is also a Y class converted to a diesel mechanical. Y 413 I think. Might be stripped for parts for 112.
@@johnd8892 Ah yes! Another forgotten engine! I wonder what became of that? Was it, as you suggest, stripped for parts for Y112, or is it sitting neglected somewhere??
Wow.
did dolgoch originally have two coal bunkers before she was fitted with air brakes
no, just on the fireman's side. The reversing lever would be in the way of an rhs/driver's side bunker
Ballarat City Council should locate and restore it if possible
Just a question, why were boilers cladded in wood in the early days? wouldn't the cladding burn or catch fire from the heat?
Insulation - to keep the heat in and make the boiler more thermally efficient. The cladding gets charred over time but never burns. Even when metal cladding was used on boilers and cylinders from later in the C19th wood cladding was still used. Hope this helps :-)
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory , when the chinese were building reusable space shuttles (or trying to - i cant remember how successful they were) they were using some form of charcoal while the yanks were using exotic high tech materials.
Some Australian Hardwoods don't burn very well, others more typically, burn well on the surface, which then remains as a charcoal insulator protecting the inside timber.
I wonder if Ballarat is in the same gadge of that of the tallylyn railway. Maybe we could and I do say "could" have the two meet in the near future probably for tallylyn's and delgoth's 200th birthday
It’s a 3’6” gauge
@@connormclernon26 Im not that knowledgeable in gauges
@CaptainKman ahh so they a foot and 3 inches wider then delgoth well there goses my Idea of having them run side by side
Wow I Dosen even know this loco exestied
I live in good old busso so see this engine a lot. Thing has been through a lot while on display and would be great to see it run again. But it is way too far gone
i happened to be reading about ballaarat recently so this video was timely. there was no mention about its design heritage in the article which i can no longer find. anyway i brought up the wikipedia page about the phoenix foundry of ballarat. it states that they built the first steam loco in western australia the governor weld. so i asked google what is the first steam locomotive in western australia? google stated that it was menzies and that it still existed. i couldnt find anything about menzies beyond google's claim. anyway, i know there was a much earlier steam loco in wa. it was a road traction engine brought out in the 1850's to pull 3 or 4 wagons of lead ore to geraldton from a mine inland. this may well rate as the world's first road train. (they are now euphemistically referred to as high productivity freight vehicles). it was not successful - the roads were too sandy and boggy. about 30 years ago, the sunday times newspaper ran a campaign to find parts of it. some parts were recovered. there is nothing on the internet about this.
The first loco built in Ballarat was built in 1861, at the Victoria Foundry (which later built Ballaarat): the Lady Barkly, for service in New Zealand. transportationhistory.org/2018/08/08/she-was-a-trailblazer-in-new-zealand/
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory , it looks like a farmer made it. an interesting design. the operating gear is not unlike ballaarat.
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory Why does the loco have the "AA" in the middle of the word Ballaarat, whereas the city is Ballarat, with only one a in the middle?
@@DrivermanO The area was originally named Ballaarat with 2 A's in 1837 by a Scottish farmer who settled the area and created a large sheep farm. The 1A version of the name wasn't officially adopted by the city until 1996 . So the loco spelling is the original name for the area and town at the time and for most of its history.
Menzies is a 1897 Dubs build. It does still exist but it has been stripped to a bare chassis for decades.
Build series for live steam model commencing in Model Engineer magazine July 2021
engines of this vintage are not exactly uncommon in Australia. Queensland Rail still maintains and occasionally operates mainline tours with an 0-4-2 tender engine of 1865 vintage
I enjoyed this video, may this comment appease the algorithm fairy and promote your channel.
Fingers crossed!
The two meet yeah 😁
Also Happy valley?😕
Toss a coin to your Witcher?
Where is this Ballaarat located?
From 7:47 which is in Western Australia.
@@johnd8892
I thought Ballaarat was another town.
@@mickcarson8504 thought you meant the locomotive and not the change in spelling over time. More info on the spelling of Ballarat
www.thecourier.com.au/story/4839355/from-ballaarat-to-ballarat-whats-really-in-a-name/
@@johnd8892
Holly cow! Is that true? And I have been calling it Ballarat since the first day at school. WTF? (☺ Red face).
Now I will have to call it Ballaaaaaratta.
Dad used to call it Balla e va te la ratta. 🤣
One day, Ballaarat will be restored to working order, and will take a trip to see their cousin in Towyn
Nah, probably not. She doesn't even wanna go anywhere, probably.
Big Australian Dolgoch
Ballaraat the Peculiar Engine
*Baalarat*
*Ballaarat*
They could've ordered an actual FJ Bb to 3'6" gauge for less fuss. Somehow, I find her beautiful, not quite as pretty as Dolgoch herself, but attractive in her own unique way.
You'd have thought that, but it was cheaper to imoprt the things like whels, cylinders and springs than a complete locomotive due to the cost of shipping and, more importantly, because the State Government in 1870 plonked a 15% import tarrif on things like locomotives and other pieces of imported machinery in order to stimulate the local, Australian, industry. Thus, it was cheaper to build a locomotive in Australia using some imported components than it was to imoport a complete locomotive. Plus, it was also quicker. :-)
@@AnthonyDawsonHistory A Victorian state import duty only. No Australian government until 1901. It was likely the government of the colony/state of Victoria that adopted protectionist policies to develop local industry. Especially the then radical government elected in Victoria by much wider adult male suffrage and secret ballots. This was different to the free trade policies of New South Wales with rural wealthy landowners somehow having much more say in government there. More people having devalued votes in NSW and even issues at one stage with government employed railway workers having to fight to be able to vote. Not widely taught these days.
Resulted in customs checkpoints at the border. Made change of gauge less of an issue since goods and people had to go through customs for inter colonial travel and trade. As a result Victoria developed much more industry as well as gold related population advantage. Population leadership of Victoria lost in the massive 1890s depression.
Free trade between states was a major issue in the move to create the Commonwealth Federation of Australia. A common level of import duties then was put in place for just overseas imports.
Led to Victorian companies like Phoenix Foundry building many more locomotives for the Victorian Railways often from pattern engines of Beyer Peacock and Kitsons, then later to local designs.
NSW railways had a much higher level of direct imports in turn in this period mainly Beyer Peacock. Shipping still a major expense for both also with the problem of sea damage. Local construction developed a local knowledge pool as well.
Much of the change in political representation arose at Ballarat after the Eureka Stockade uprising in 1854, with leader Peter Lalor being tried for treason under sentence of death, but being found not guilty by the jury of his peers and moving on in railway construction and being a member of Parliament soon after.
Thanks for your clarification. In the original 1870s newspapers I was reading it referred to merely "government" - but I was aware there was no Aus-wide Government. I really must read-up on my Aus history!
As a non-Brit, side buffers on narrow gauge stock look so weird. I know they're quite common with minimal gauge but those are kind of a different category.
Here are buffers on a broad gauge Rogers locomotive
livinghistories.newcastle.edu.au/nodes/view/87037
Victorian Railways Australia, often took over westbound trains from Ballarat station.
Absinthe, here in Australia, both the Queensland Government Railways and the Tasmanian Government Railways (both 3'6") used hooks and side buffers until quite recently.
I made a model of Ballaarat on ROBLOX.
Good oy cobba!!!!
Or even good onya cobber.
It's spelt Ballarat
It has been simplified to that spelling now, but in the very early years it was spelt with a double a. Lasted into the 1990s for the rural shire official name.
More info on the spelling
www.thecourier.com.au/story/4839355/from-ballaarat-to-ballarat-whats-really-in-a-name/
Everybody had beards then, even the women.
Good old ballarat. Sometimes im proud to live there other times its a crappy town.