Another approach i heard is that Joseph was told by Mary and he wanted to withdraw quietly, considering that she was not for him anymore (so To speak, sorry, my English has limits). This is hinted by the Angel's message to him : "do not be afraid to take Mary" : why should he be afraid ? Because he thought she was God's, as the Ark of the new covenant.
@YAJUN YUAN Actually, there was a possibility for married women that had made a vow of virginity to keep it after getting married if their husband did not oppose to it, so it is not impossible that Joseph would let Mary remain a virgin consecrated to God even when marrying her. It is in Lv, I believe, but I lost the reference !! Could look for it if you're interested...
Joseph was a RIGHTEOUS MAN says it all for me personally. Righteous means loyalty kindness gentleness generosity faith purity all the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. He had it all. No cruelty in Joseph. A man after the Heart of God.
@@yecto1332if doing what Joseph did and being perfectly obedient to God and taking care of Mary and raising Jesus makes one a beta male, then that’s what I want to be. If being alpha means being self centered, uncharitable and cowardly, I’ll pass on that.
One theory is that He thought of Himself as unworthy to be the husband of the Mother of the Messiah. He considered her status to be to great for him to take her as his wife he simply didn't understand that God had a role for him to play as the father of Jesus and husband of Mary.
The Greek word used for 'putting her away ' also means 'to put himself away '. He went with Mary on her visit to Elizabeth and heard and saw everything that happened. It's more than a theory. There's a book from the late 19th century or early 20th century called the glories of Joseph that explains it very well.
If you were engaged to a girl and had not had any physical relationships with her, then found that she was expecting a child. Do you not think that you would put her away quietly yourself? He had not been informed by the angel of the circumstances at that time either.
If Joseph was an older man (like the Protoevangelium of James claims), who was simply "marrying" Mary to care for her (because he was - allegedly - married before & already had a family), then there would be no reason to divorce her, since they weren't planning on having a family & their relationship would have not been like a "regular" marriage.
How can we make the innocence theory (Joseph doesn't really believe Mary has commited adultery) be consistent with the angel's reason not to fear: _for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit_ ? Because, assuming the angel is telling Joseph something *new* (it's a miracle), then Joseph's previous thought must have been something else: adultery. Maybe we need to understand the angel's reason as "do not fear *simply because* that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit" ?
Well, would a miracle also not include the revelation of certain suspected facts as actual, with the certitude being told by an angel would bring? In that case, Joseph would be innocent not in the sense that he disbelieved Mary committed adultery, but that he didn't have a positive belief at all (i.e. he didn't know _what_ to believe) -- except that he knew positively that the child definitely *wasn't* begat by him. And eliminating that possibility, all others suggest that he, at the very least, release her from a marriage, if not pursue the fullest extent of the consequences prescribed by law. If I _know_ that I have had some money go missing under an employee's care, but I _don't_ know whether he stole it or simply misplaced it somehow, then unless I had a good reason to suspect his guilt, I wouldn't be inclined to have him arrested for theft, but I _would_ be inclined to at the very least end his employment, justified by either possibility of negligence or theft.
Actually, every single time (but one exception) an angel appears to someone in scripture, they say to that person, "don't be afraid". Angels are pure spirit - no body. Imagine a pure spiritual being! It must be terrifying. They ALWAYS say, "fear not", "be not afraid", etc. before they start giving their message. I don't think it's wise to assume that this fear (every person visited by an angel must have experienced) would have to do with anything other than the immense awe of being addressed by an angelic purely spiritual being. Angelic depictions of bodily winged creatures are NOT correct. They have no bodies. Pure spirit. I'd be terrified!
‘Being a righteous man’, it could be said that he did not consummate the marriage ahead of schedule and that also did not want to expose her to shame, for he did care for her as hurt as he must have been.
How would you feel if as a Man if your Betrothed Wife to be goes on a trip, that you never had relations with, and a few months letter comes back pregnant and all filled with the Holy Spirit (an excited euphoria) telling you the baby is the Som of God? From a man's perspective, Knowing that Mary is a good Jewish Woman that wouldn't commit adultery but comes off as somewhat nutty (you got to either be extremely loony or extremely Truthful to claim you got impregnated by the Holy Spirit). But seriously, from a Man's perspective, I have heard stories of women getting pregnant by other men and telling their boyfriends it "just happened." Right.... This is one of the reasons why the Pharisees hated Jesus. They claimed His Mother a Harlot (please forgive them Mother Mary) and was teaching with such authority that was not befitting of a "bastard child" (in their eyes). They are called the 15 mysteries of the Rosary, not the 15 things to know for a reason folks.
Thanks Dr. Pitre, interesting - never thought about it but I guess a 'righteous' man would be bound to have his wife stoned, and obviously never read the book you mentioned.
explain how that would be just/righteous rather than self-interested seeing as how he would have been punished too if he had gotten her pregnant before allowed.
Maybe he thought Mary was seduced or taken by force so maybe he had pity on her. Or maybe she told him she was with child by the Holy Spirit and he thought she was deluded. Or maybe he just couldn’t bring himself to have her judged harshly because he was a man after Jesus’ heart
What happened when Jesus was 12? My thoughts has always been that after 3 and half years in Egypt, Mary returned to Nazareth with a child she said was 9 months younger then the child she left with. To keep him as safe as she could. On that trip at 12, I'm thinking he was told about it, and when he rebelled and said he must be about his father's business, he also found out he was not the son of Joseph the Carpenter. It all makes sense to me, including why the people of Nazareth wanted to run him out of town after quoting ISA:61. Jesus is always the lion in a story, which is why I think his real father was Joseph the Tin Man. Teacher/Preacher from England who had a home in the Jordan River Catchment Area, and tin mines and a home in England.
Jesus DEFINITELY DID NOT rebel. C’mon now! Why would the author of the 4th commandment break His own commandment regarding His own parents. You have to read that in context.
Mary whilst a Virgin conceived by being overshadowed, by the Holy Spirit. A human cannot have sex with God, who is the third person of the Trinity. She whom God the Son chose to be his mother, to come and be born through her. God created His mother, so that He would be born into the world a human being. He who is God created her sinless... How would you create your mother if you could? She who carried the Saviour of creation... do you really think she would have sex after giving birth to God her Son Jesus Christ... Her immaculate womb carried God, Jesus Christ who is perfection, who raised the dead, who is Truth and Love. He is Love and Truth itself... not that he just has these virtues.... He is Love. There were no sexual relations between Mary and Joseph at all. Her womb is the Tabernacle that brought the Saviour into the world, She who is spotless. The mother of God who is all pure, do you think she had sexual relations for the sake of "pleasure ", having given birth to God? Think about it people... we are talking about a God who is Divine...
Mary and Mary the wife of cleopas (Mary's sister)/relative are at the foot of the cross together.This Mary is also described as the mother of James and Joses. Cleopas has been identified as Joseph' s brother so James is Jesus' cousin.
I am confused. Today’s reading (December 30, 2019) celebrating the Holy Family was about Mary and Joseph making their annual trek to Jerusalem to celebrate the Passover and mistakenly leaving Jesus behind when Jesus was 12 (see Luke 2:41-52). They found Him in the Temple discussing Scripture. Mary says to Jesus in verse 48 - When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.” Mary is referring to Jesus’s father and I assume that is Joseph and not our Heavenly Father. When did this alleged divorce actually happen or was there a different man with Mary?
Hi Mark. Thank you for your comment. A divorce, being considered by St. Joseph when he discovered Mary was pregnant, did not happen. Yes, the foster father was St. Joseph whom Mary is referencing in the finding of Jesus in the Temple. Thanks.
Yes, remember that an angel quickly comes to Joseph in the very next verse and informs him of the miracle that is happening. Matthew 1:18-21 (RSVCE): 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit; 19 and her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to send her away quietly. 20 But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit; 21 she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”
I have a problem with this idea as presented: 1) Mary was pregnant, 2) Joseph had not slept with Mary (and, thus could not possibly have been the father), and 3) Joseph did not believe Mary had committed adultery. As a person of faith myself, in the same situation, what would I think?Parthenogenesis? Alien abduction? As these ideas would have been unfamiliar to Joseph, I don’t see how he would have tried to divorce someone he thought had become pregnant by miracle, especially when no one else would have known.
Marriage back in the day is different than in recent times. You aren't allowed to have sex with the wife until both are formally declared married. They were just betrothed at the start of Matthew, and Joseph found out she was with child. Of course he would be confused as to what happened, nor he knew at that point or prior to that that Mary is with child by the Holy Spirit. Hence he didn't know if the pregnancy was a miracle or actual adultery, and indeed his confusion. But the following verse in Matthew then mentioned that an angel that went to Joseph in the dream to resolve the issue. That's when Joseph knew that Mary didn't commit adultery, and as a righteous man, protected her by taking her in as his wife.
Also, virgin births (though extremely rare) do happen today. I've read about siblings having child. Theory is that the brother was doing what many young men do in the shower/bathtub. The sister taking baths after her brother, "miraculously" was fertilized by what he left in the tub - hymen unbroken. I wonder if this sort of thing happened in ancient times where there was huge communal baths that people shared. BTW, I'm in no way implying this of Mary or Jesus!
@@IowaRonin This doesn't happen at all, you just bathe in semen and get pregnant. In order for a woman to get pregnant the semen has to be deposited inside the vagina at the uterus entrance WITHOUT WATER. Water reacts with the semen making it sticky and it also washes away the protection layers it has.
Joseph and Mary conceived a child before the ceremony, that’s socially a problem with no token of virginity. So he was going to send her away secretly, but the angel told him to embrace his wife, that the child has been a blessing from God. It’s not difficult until you go with a no seed from man idea, a DemiGod creation.
Never mind, I guess you are discussing Joseph’s PLANS to divorce Mary when he discovers Mary is with Child. Then the angel appears to Joseph and tells him everything I’d OK. You are not saying Joseph actually divorced a Mary, right?
@@CatholicProductions If Joseph was an older man (like the Protoevangelium of James claims), who was simply "marrying" Mary to care for her (because he was - allegedly - married before & already had a family), then there would be no reason to divorce her, since they weren't planning on having a family & their relationship would have not been like a "regular" marriage.
@@CatholicProductions follow-up question: If Mary, and her family including Joseph, knew that Mary was immaculately conceived for the purpose of having the promised Messiah, then why did it come as such a shock to both Mary & Joseph that she was pregnant? Wouldn't her immaculate conception give them a clue to as "why" she was immaculately conceived?
@@CatholicProductions lastly, if you are interested, I am debating Trent Horn from Catholic Answers on the Marian dogmas. It is scheduled for Wednesday, April 20, 2022 from 1-3pm EST on "Pints with Aquinas": ua-cam.com/video/3ztPLj7eKrk/v-deo.html
where did brandt petre even come up with this idea in the first place? all it is, is speculation to try to prop up the false 4 doctrines of mariology, which emanated from pagan religion, at the behest of the roman empire.
1/ the Immaculate Conception and the Virginal Conception ARE DIFFERENT THINGS, please read more 2/ you refer to that Great Man as St Joseph not just 'Joseph' preferably 3/ 'his wife' is the Immaculate and Ever Virgin Mother of God 4/ yeah don't write 'BS' in the same sentence as referencing the All Holy Virgin and St Joseph ***Ave Maria***
To be a righteous man is not to follow the law of Moses, as one would Stone and adulterer, otherwise those who wanted to stoned the adulterous woman in the Gospel of John, would be considered righteous to do so, in this, righteousness is not coming by the law, it is coming by his love from Mary, that is, he wanted no harm or shame upon her for whatever reason, it is clear he simply thought that Mary committed adultery why would you think anything else if she was pregnant, and furthermore, if she was truly a virgin and was carrying a child in her womb, would they not have inspected her to see if she was or not, and if they found that she was a virgin, then they all would have been amazed, what is interesting is this, that the gospels do not say that Mary did not have sexual relations with another man, and if the virgin conception is such a integral part of the Christian faith, then why is it only mentioned in two of the gospels, flesh gives birth to flesh, spirit gives birth to Spirit, you could easily argue that Mary did have sexual relations with another man, because the Flesh counts for nothing, flesh and blood is Flesh and Blood all men are Flesh and Blood, but Christ is not his flesh and blood, Christ is the spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, the heart and light of God, within the Flesh and Blood, fully Flesh and Blood and fully God,
Christ is not the spirit of God!! Jesus is the 2nd PERSON of the trinity...The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the trinity It's the love of the father and son.
@@blackrocket673 the holy spirit is the spirit of God, Christ is of the Holy Spirit, the spirit of God, and God is of the Holy Spirit, which is the one spirit, for God is Spirit, Christ is spirit, the holy spirit is spirit, Christ is the light of the father, the love of the father, the holy spirit is the light of the father, it is the light of the son, it is all one spirit, one light, one heart.
If Mary, and her family including Joseph, knew that Mary was immaculately conceived for the purpose of having the promised Messiah, then why did it come as such a shock to both Mary & Joseph that she was pregnant? Wouldn't her immaculate conception give them a clue to as "why" she was immaculately conceived?
1:53 into this, he's telling you what your problem is. I have one of these books he reads from. It speaks of a talking snake. & the same of the donkey. It speaks of unicorns. & a man living in a whale, where fossils nor bones of whales have yet been found. Best way to remain religious is to not read it's scriptures on your own. But I have read this book.
At least atheism seems reasonable. If God exists, supernatural is possible. Jonah was dead inside the fish. Are humans animals according to darwinianism? They do talk.
If "hippopotamus" means "river horse" then "unicorn" seems a very reasonable name for a rhinoceros. And how do you translate "dag gadoul" as "whale" rather than "great fish"?
I must say I have never ever ever heard this nonsense before as a concern of anybody. Who cares? My understanding has always been that Mary revealed to Joseph during the courtship and that prompted him to want to "annul" the engagement, not any marriage that had not even happened yet. The embarrassment was that Mary was with child that could not possibly be his since they had never slept together. She is a virgin. It is not as if the marriage was unconsummated and "God" got there first like some prima nocta thing. God does not expect us to sit around in the mud like this. Marriage is marriage; divorce is divorce. You know the rules. Stop looking for loopholes.
Hi Tony -- thanks for your comments. I'll copy and paste so as to respond in context: Then I'd encourage such a person to look more into the history of the Church. Those of us who want to understand the intention of the author of Scripture, which is why it has been a topic of discussion prior to the invention of UA-cam ;-). > So, this passes the litmus test of being a concern (see 1st comment)? I'd submit to you that they were already legally married, not merely engaged, but given the Jewish custom of the marriage process, they had not yet moved in together. This is one possibility. > This would be incorrect. Cf. Mt. 1:18, "When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit..." And study his word? That's not what the Bible says. The 21st Century method of a western civilization marriage ceremonial template does not lineup with 1st century Jewish marriage ceremonial template. That is where the disparity is and why this statement oversimplifies things to the point of being numb to the incorrect conclusions that eventuate from such an oversimplification. Speaking of mud and potentially sticking your head in it... engage the argument with premises (not just conclusions) in light of how this has been interpreted from the Early Church Fathers.
Tony, Mary and Joseph were legally married by the time the angel appeared to her, having observed the first part of the two stage marriage ceremony - the Kiddushin. The second stage (Nisuin) occurred a year after the first one. The couple had signed a marriage contract (ketubah) before two witnesses which explains why Joseph could divorce Mary. Engaged couples don't legally divorce, do they?
What language I must say you have. !! Everything that's written in scripture is important..If it's not important to you then you don't know about God's will...
Maybe he thought Mary was seduced or taken by force so maybe he had pity on her. Or maybe she told him she was with child by the Holy Spirit and he thought she was deluded. Or maybe he just couldn’t bring himself to judge her harshly because he was a man after Jesus’ heart
Another approach i heard is that Joseph was told by Mary and he wanted to withdraw quietly, considering that she was not for him anymore (so To speak, sorry, my English has limits). This is hinted by the Angel's message to him : "do not be afraid to take Mary" : why should he be afraid ? Because he thought she was God's, as the Ark of the new covenant.
@YAJUN YUAN Actually, there was a possibility for married women that had made a vow of virginity to keep it after getting married if their husband did not oppose to it, so it is not impossible that Joseph would let Mary remain a virgin consecrated to God even when marrying her. It is in Lv, I believe, but I lost the reference !! Could look for it if you're interested...
@YAJUN YUAN Check Nb 30:6-8 and 13-16. For more details, I highly recommend "Jesus and the Jewish roots of Mary" by B Pitre. God bless
Joseph was a RIGHTEOUS MAN says it all for me personally. Righteous means loyalty kindness gentleness generosity faith purity all the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. He had it all. No cruelty in Joseph. A man after the Heart of God.
@@kairomalachi255 🤣🤣
He was a beta male
@@yecto1332he was everything but a beta male. Besides who are you anyway?
@@yecto1332if doing what Joseph did and being perfectly obedient to God and taking care of Mary and raising Jesus makes one a beta male, then that’s what I want to be. If being alpha means being self centered, uncharitable and cowardly, I’ll pass on that.
One theory is that He thought of Himself as unworthy to be the husband of the Mother of the Messiah. He considered her status to be to great for him to take her as his wife he simply didn't understand that God had a role for him to play as the father of Jesus and husband of Mary.
He wanted to divorce her BEFORE he got the message from the Angel
Careful. Sense heresy there
Bingo. I don’t know why the other commentator said anything about heresy. I believe this is revealed in Ven Mary of Agreda’s book.
The Greek word used for 'putting her away ' also means 'to put himself away '. He went with Mary on her visit to Elizabeth and heard and saw everything that happened. It's more than a theory. There's a book from the late 19th century or early 20th century called the glories of Joseph that explains it very well.
If you were engaged to a girl and had not had any physical relationships with her, then found that she was expecting a child. Do you not think that you would put her away quietly yourself? He had not been informed by the angel of the circumstances at that time either.
Dr pitre is the best
Speaks so clearly that even I can understand.
Thank you Doc
Wow! A 800 page book on St. Joseph. The evangelists could muster up just a few sentences in the Gospels.
If Joseph was an older man (like the Protoevangelium of James claims), who was simply "marrying" Mary to care for her (because he was - allegedly - married before & already had a family), then there would be no reason to divorce her, since they weren't planning on having a family & their relationship would have not been like a "regular" marriage.
How can we make the innocence theory (Joseph doesn't really believe Mary has commited adultery) be consistent with the angel's reason not to fear: _for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit_ ? Because, assuming the angel is telling Joseph something *new* (it's a miracle), then Joseph's previous thought must have been something else: adultery.
Maybe we need to understand the angel's reason as "do not fear *simply because* that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit" ?
Well, would a miracle also not include the revelation of certain suspected facts as actual, with the certitude being told by an angel would bring? In that case, Joseph would be innocent not in the sense that he disbelieved Mary committed adultery, but that he didn't have a positive belief at all (i.e. he didn't know _what_ to believe) -- except that he knew positively that the child definitely *wasn't* begat by him. And eliminating that possibility, all others suggest that he, at the very least, release her from a marriage, if not pursue the fullest extent of the consequences prescribed by law.
If I _know_ that I have had some money go missing under an employee's care, but I _don't_ know whether he stole it or simply misplaced it somehow, then unless I had a good reason to suspect his guilt, I wouldn't be inclined to have him arrested for theft, but I _would_ be inclined to at the very least end his employment, justified by either possibility of negligence or theft.
@@RickJaeger interesting explanation 👍
Actually, every single time (but one exception) an angel appears to someone in scripture, they say to that person, "don't be afraid".
Angels are pure spirit - no body. Imagine a pure spiritual being! It must be terrifying. They ALWAYS say, "fear not", "be not afraid", etc. before they start giving their message.
I don't think it's wise to assume that this fear (every person visited by an angel must have experienced) would have to do with anything other than the immense awe of being addressed by an angelic purely spiritual being.
Angelic depictions of bodily winged creatures are NOT correct. They have no bodies. Pure spirit. I'd be terrified!
‘Being a righteous man’, it could be said that he did not consummate the marriage ahead of schedule and that also did not want to expose her to shame, for he did care for her as hurt as he must have been.
a trick: you can watch movies on flixzone. Been using them for watching lots of of movies during the lockdown.
@Jabari Ulises yea, have been using flixzone} for years myself :D
How would you feel if as a Man if your Betrothed Wife to be goes on a trip, that you never had relations with, and a few months letter comes back pregnant and all filled with the Holy Spirit (an excited euphoria) telling you the baby is the Som of God?
From a man's perspective, Knowing that Mary is a good Jewish Woman that wouldn't commit adultery but comes off as somewhat nutty (you got to either be extremely loony or extremely Truthful to claim you got impregnated by the Holy Spirit).
But seriously, from a Man's perspective, I have heard stories of women getting pregnant by other men and telling their boyfriends it "just happened."
Right....
This is one of the reasons why the Pharisees hated Jesus.
They claimed His Mother a Harlot (please forgive them Mother Mary) and was teaching with such authority that was not befitting of a "bastard child" (in their eyes).
They are called the 15 mysteries of the Rosary, not the 15 things to know for a reason folks.
There's a mistake in the description: it is written as "Jospeh" and not "Joseph"
Thanks Dr. Pitre, interesting - never thought about it but I guess a 'righteous' man would be bound to have his wife stoned, and obviously never read the book you mentioned.
St. Joseph felt he was unworthy to be the husband of Mary, the Mother of GOD, i.e., JESUS.
what about Joseph thinking that he himself would also be looked at wrongly or negatively as having defiled Mary before a wedding ceremony ? discuss
explain how that would be just/righteous rather than self-interested seeing as how he would have been punished too if he had gotten her pregnant before allowed.
Maybe he thought Mary was seduced or taken by force so maybe he had pity on her. Or maybe she told him she was with child by the Holy Spirit and he thought she was deluded. Or maybe he just couldn’t bring himself to have her judged harshly because he was a man after Jesus’ heart
What happened when Jesus was 12? My thoughts has always been that after 3 and half years in Egypt, Mary returned to Nazareth with a child she said was 9 months younger then the child she left with. To keep him as safe as she could. On that trip at 12, I'm thinking he was told about it, and when he rebelled and said he must be about his father's business, he also found out he was not the son of Joseph the Carpenter. It all makes sense to me, including why the people of Nazareth wanted to run him out of town after quoting ISA:61. Jesus is always the lion in a story, which is why I think his real father was Joseph the Tin Man. Teacher/Preacher from England who had a home in the Jordan River Catchment Area, and tin mines and a home in England.
Jesus DEFINITELY DID NOT rebel. C’mon now! Why would the author of the 4th commandment break His own commandment regarding His own parents. You have to read that in context.
Why do we feel we have to solve every mystery in life? I know that is impossible when it comes to my wife. And I have been married 44 years.
Mary whilst a Virgin conceived by being overshadowed, by the Holy Spirit.
A human cannot have sex with God, who is the third person of the Trinity.
She whom God the Son chose to be his mother, to come and be born through her.
God created His mother, so that He would be born into the world a human being. He who is God created her sinless... How would you create your mother if you could?
She who carried the Saviour of creation... do you really think she would have sex after giving birth to God her Son Jesus Christ...
Her immaculate womb carried God, Jesus Christ who is perfection, who raised the dead, who is Truth and Love. He is Love and Truth itself... not that he just has these
virtues.... He is Love.
There were no sexual relations between Mary and Joseph at all. Her womb is the Tabernacle that brought the Saviour into the world, She who is spotless.
The mother of God who is all pure, do you think she had sexual relations for the sake of
"pleasure ", having given birth to God?
Think about it people... we are talking about a God who is Divine...
James was born to Mary and Joseph?
Mary and Mary the wife of cleopas (Mary's sister)/relative are at the foot of the cross together.This Mary is also described as the mother of James and Joses. Cleopas has been identified as Joseph' s brother so James is Jesus' cousin.
I am confused. Today’s reading (December 30, 2019) celebrating the Holy Family was about Mary and Joseph making their annual trek to Jerusalem to celebrate the Passover and mistakenly leaving Jesus behind when Jesus was 12 (see Luke 2:41-52). They found Him in the Temple discussing Scripture. Mary says to Jesus in verse 48 - When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”
Mary is referring to Jesus’s father and I assume that is Joseph and not our Heavenly Father. When did this alleged divorce actually happen or was there a different man with Mary?
Hi Mark. Thank you for your comment. A divorce, being considered by St. Joseph when he discovered Mary was pregnant, did not happen. Yes, the foster father was St. Joseph whom Mary is referencing in the finding of Jesus in the Temple. Thanks.
Yes, remember that an angel quickly comes to Joseph in the very next verse and informs him of the miracle that is happening.
Matthew 1:18-21 (RSVCE):
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit; 19 and her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to send her away quietly. 20 But as he considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit; 21 she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”
Thank you
who did you just Call Father
I have a problem with this idea as presented: 1) Mary was pregnant, 2) Joseph had not slept with Mary (and, thus could not possibly have been the father), and 3) Joseph did not believe Mary had committed adultery. As a person of faith myself, in the same situation, what would I think?Parthenogenesis? Alien abduction? As these ideas would have been unfamiliar to Joseph, I don’t see how he would have tried to divorce someone he thought had become pregnant by miracle, especially when no one else would have known.
Marriage back in the day is different than in recent times. You aren't allowed to have sex with the wife until both are formally declared married. They were just betrothed at the start of Matthew, and Joseph found out she was with child. Of course he would be confused as to what happened, nor he knew at that point or prior to that that Mary is with child by the Holy Spirit. Hence he didn't know if the pregnancy was a miracle or actual adultery, and indeed his confusion. But the following verse in Matthew then mentioned that an angel that went to Joseph in the dream to resolve the issue. That's when Joseph knew that Mary didn't commit adultery, and as a righteous man, protected her by taking her in as his wife.
Also, virgin births (though extremely rare) do happen today. I've read about siblings having child. Theory is that the brother was doing what many young men do in the shower/bathtub. The sister taking baths after her brother, "miraculously" was fertilized by what he left in the tub - hymen unbroken.
I wonder if this sort of thing happened in ancient times where there was huge communal baths that people shared.
BTW, I'm in no way implying this of Mary or Jesus!
@@IowaRonin This doesn't happen at all, you just bathe in semen and get pregnant. In order for a woman to get pregnant the semen has to be deposited inside the vagina at the uterus entrance WITHOUT WATER. Water reacts with the semen making it sticky and it also washes away the protection layers it has.
Joseph and Mary conceived a child before the ceremony, that’s socially a problem with no token of virginity. So he was going to send her away secretly, but the angel told him to embrace his wife, that the child has been a blessing from God. It’s not difficult until you go with a no seed from man idea, a DemiGod creation.
Never mind, I guess you are discussing Joseph’s PLANS to divorce Mary when he discovers Mary is with Child. Then the angel appears to Joseph and tells him everything I’d OK. You are not saying Joseph actually divorced a Mary, right?
Correct.
Why A Mary?what does that mean?
@@CatholicProductions If Joseph was an older man (like the Protoevangelium of James claims), who was simply "marrying" Mary to care for her (because he was - allegedly - married before & already had a family), then there would be no reason to divorce her, since they weren't planning on having a family & their relationship would have not been like a "regular" marriage.
@@CatholicProductions follow-up question: If Mary, and her family including Joseph, knew that Mary was immaculately conceived for the purpose of having the promised Messiah, then why did it come as such a shock to both Mary & Joseph that she was pregnant? Wouldn't her immaculate conception give them a clue to as "why" she was immaculately conceived?
@@CatholicProductions lastly, if you are interested, I am debating Trent Horn from Catholic Answers on the Marian dogmas. It is scheduled for Wednesday, April 20, 2022 from 1-3pm EST on "Pints with Aquinas":
ua-cam.com/video/3ztPLj7eKrk/v-deo.html
where did brandt petre even come up with this idea in the first place? all it is, is speculation to try to prop up the false 4 doctrines of mariology, which emanated from pagan religion, at the behest of the roman empire.
I'd say it was because she was pregnant.
Maybe because his wife got pregnant and she told him it was by immaculate conception..and Joseph says..what total bs..
1/ the Immaculate Conception and the Virginal Conception ARE DIFFERENT THINGS, please read more 2/ you refer to that Great Man as St Joseph not just 'Joseph' preferably 3/ 'his wife' is the Immaculate and Ever Virgin Mother of God 4/ yeah don't write 'BS' in the same sentence as referencing the All Holy Virgin and St Joseph ***Ave Maria***
To be a righteous man is not to follow the law of Moses, as one would Stone and adulterer, otherwise those who wanted to stoned the adulterous woman in the Gospel of John, would be considered righteous to do so, in this, righteousness is not coming by the law, it is coming by his love from Mary, that is, he wanted no harm or shame upon her for whatever reason,
it is clear he simply thought that Mary committed adultery why would you think anything else if she was pregnant, and furthermore, if she was truly a virgin and was carrying a child in her womb, would they not have inspected her to see if she was or not, and if they found that she was a virgin, then they all would have been amazed,
what is interesting is this, that the gospels do not say that Mary did not have sexual relations with another man, and if the virgin conception is such a integral part of the Christian faith, then why is it only mentioned in two of the gospels, flesh gives birth to flesh, spirit gives birth to Spirit, you could easily argue that Mary did have sexual relations with another man, because the Flesh counts for nothing, flesh and blood is Flesh and Blood all men are Flesh and Blood, but Christ is not his flesh and blood, Christ is the spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, the heart and light of God, within the Flesh and Blood, fully Flesh and Blood and fully God,
Christ is not the spirit of God!! Jesus is the 2nd PERSON of the trinity...The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the trinity It's the love of the father and son.
@@blackrocket673 the holy spirit is the spirit of God, Christ is of the Holy Spirit, the spirit of God, and God is of the Holy Spirit, which is the one spirit, for God is Spirit, Christ is spirit, the holy spirit is spirit, Christ is the light of the father, the love of the father, the holy spirit is the light of the father, it is the light of the son, it is all one spirit, one light, one heart.
Look into Gnosticism and how it was the first heresy condemned by the Church
Why tf you think, shorty was out here HOT
Because she cheated on him and came up with an unbelievable cover story.
.......which nobody believed
If Mary, and her family including Joseph, knew that Mary was immaculately conceived for the purpose of having the promised Messiah, then why did it come as such a shock to both Mary & Joseph that she was pregnant? Wouldn't her immaculate conception give them a clue to as "why" she was immaculately conceived?
An Islamist scholar is here as well!
Your objections meant nothing!!! @ BornAgainRN
OMG woman
1:53 into this, he's telling you what your problem is. I have one of these books he reads from. It speaks of a talking snake. & the same of the donkey. It speaks of unicorns. & a man living in a whale, where fossils nor bones of whales have yet been found. Best way to remain religious is to not read it's scriptures on your own. But I have read this book.
At least atheism seems reasonable. If God exists, supernatural is possible.
Jonah was dead inside the fish.
Are humans animals according to darwinianism? They do talk.
If you think that God's creation is stupid, that is your own doing. Billions of Catholics think differently. Pray for conversion. You'll be happier.
@@eugengolubic2186 Apparently science recently concluded that even plants talk.
If "hippopotamus" means "river horse" then "unicorn" seems a very reasonable name for a rhinoceros. And how do you translate "dag gadoul" as "whale" rather than "great fish"?
@@thereaction18 sounds interesting. Where did you found out about it?
I must say I have never ever ever heard this nonsense before as a concern of anybody. Who cares? My understanding has always been that Mary revealed to Joseph during the courtship and that prompted him to want to "annul" the engagement, not any marriage that had not even happened yet. The embarrassment was that Mary was with child that could not possibly be his since they had never slept together. She is a virgin. It is not as if the marriage was unconsummated and "God" got there first like some prima nocta thing. God does not expect us to sit around in the mud like this. Marriage is marriage; divorce is divorce. You know the rules. Stop looking for loopholes.
Tony Gilder wow! If you don’t care about this mistery, why you even bother to make a comment?
After all, you just proved your lack of knowledge.
Hi Tony -- thanks for your comments. I'll copy and paste so as to respond in context:
Then I'd encourage such a person to look more into the history of the Church.
Those of us who want to understand the intention of the author of Scripture, which is why it has been a topic of discussion prior to the invention of UA-cam ;-).
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So, this passes the litmus test of being a concern (see 1st comment)? I'd submit to you that they were already legally married, not merely engaged, but given the Jewish custom of the marriage process, they had not yet moved in together.
This is one possibility.
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This would be incorrect. Cf. Mt. 1:18, "When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit..."
And study his word? That's not what the Bible says.
The 21st Century method of a western civilization marriage ceremonial template does not lineup with 1st century Jewish marriage ceremonial template. That is where the disparity is and why this statement oversimplifies things to the point of being numb to the incorrect conclusions that eventuate from such an oversimplification.
Speaking of mud and potentially sticking your head in it... engage the argument with premises (not just conclusions) in light of how this has been interpreted from the Early Church Fathers.
Tony, Mary and Joseph were legally married by the time the angel appeared to her, having observed the first part of the two stage marriage ceremony - the Kiddushin. The second stage (Nisuin) occurred a year after the first one. The couple had signed a marriage contract (ketubah) before two witnesses which explains why Joseph could divorce Mary. Engaged couples don't legally divorce, do they?
What language I must say you have. !! Everything that's written in scripture is important..If it's not important to you then you don't know about God's will...
Tony, It seems you did not listen to the video? These things do matter and others have explained why.
Maybe he thought Mary was seduced or taken by force so maybe he had pity on her. Or maybe she told him she was with child by the Holy Spirit and he thought she was deluded. Or maybe he just couldn’t bring himself to judge her harshly because he was a man after Jesus’ heart