Have you used a console before? Do you prefer working on a console or working inside of your DAW? If you've used LUNA please let me know your thoughts on it below!
I miss consoles. Live sound I can walk up to most consoles and start turning knobs pre-sound-check. And then once sound check starts it's just tweaking. Honestly, if these DAW cartoon mixing consoles could just have a 3 or 4 band eq in them as default like a console it would save a lot of headache. In the old days it was so simple. I know I know ... I can kind of do it on the cartoon unit but it's not the same. I should really get a mixer I guess.
The million dollar question is do you hear a million dollars extra in the pro tools mix and the answer is NO. I even prefer the sound in Luna om my speakers. It sounds more open and alive. This is amazing because now you can create music, buy a house, a car and boat all at the same time. It is a good time to be alive.
I bought an Apollo 8xp this year and it has totally changed my home recording life. It blows my old interface out of the water and allows me to get the sound of drums I’m after before I’m even in the mixing phase and without needing thousands of dollars of outboard gear.
Thanks! Yes, finally! We've been asked 100's of times for thus video and we finally got it done! It was a blast to be able t0o di it and I hope it helps a lot of people out so they can play with the multi tracks and have some fun with these amazing musicians in an incredible room!
Melissa mentions something very important - the fact that a great engineer, great mics, great instruments and correct gain staging and preamp function means that you don't have to use that much compression. Listen to Bruce Swedien and Alan Parsons - they share this philosophy and their productions are famous for their rich dynamic motion and sound quality.
One thing to keep in mind is that I was being a BIT safe where possible since I was having to keep up with the session instead of driving it. It could’ve been pushed a bit more in line with the console, but I think hearing just how close it can get is hopefully really encouraging to folks!
I wasn't expecting a difference like this. It's a significant difference in the mids imho. The Luna mix sounds like a classic "ITB" mix kind of. Very punchy present snare, everything is a bit separated, the low-end is clean and nice, a lot of resonances here and there (low-mid, highs). Console mix has more mids, less snare punch, everything sounds more finished already, more workable. The balance seems also completely different, to the point I am wondering if it's not what makes the biggest difference in the end. Receiving a tracking session sounding like the desk here sounds much easier to work with and makes it "amazing" when mixing. I wasn't expecting it to be "that" different actually, thanks for making this :).
Luna with Neve extensions engaged, no latency when tracking with those endless top plug in choices, enough dsp and the Ampex & Studer on master tape slots or sends with an X-Touch yes, X-Touch controller and an SSL UC1. Very happy indeed Warren.
I'm pretty sure there aren't even many other studios that can compare to Sunset Sound. Since most of us are unlikely to get anywhere near a half decent studio and console with our music, I can't believe how lucky I am to live in a world where I can have access to something like LUNA for free (because I use a UAD interface) that is talked about in comparison with a console recording at the studio where Prince, Led Zep, Stones, Joplin, Doors, Beach Boys and Van Halen etc recorded :-). Warren, Melissa, the incredible (I'm lost for superlatives) musicians and engineers etc - you are all amazing people to share your knowledge and wealth of experience with people like me. Thanks a million!
I've been using UA Apollo's since 2012 when they first came out. I have three of the rack hardware units, one from each generation and I'm about to purchase another for my new mixing room. I started using LUNA right after it came out in April 2020. Pro Tools user for years prior. I used both for a while until I got past the learning curve of LUNA and have used it almost exclusively now for quite sometime. Still have my PT subscription but I rarely use it anymore. I don't have a lot of outboard gear, so the results I can get with my setup and LUNA are really satisfying. I just have to keep working at the craft of tracking and mixing. Loved the comparison Warren. The band sounds amazing, really excellent song and Melissa did a fantastic job explaining the setup. Thanks again!
The drums in LUNA sound more modern and punchy. I like this, but I feel this is probably a bias of mine due to the modern metal drums I am used to listening to. The guitars sound absolutely beautiful through the console. Closing my eyes, I felt like I was in the same room as the musicians. On a side note, I love listening to people like Melissa Bell talk. Intelligent , informative, concise and no wasted words in the explanation. Thanks for sharing.
Luna is incredibly powerful. Its so easy to achieve a wonderful sound and IN THE BOX!!! The biggest difference I hear is the width, depth and space of the board mix. I like that mix way better. But I bet if you pair luna with a summing mixer like a dangerous dbox I think you got yourself a pretty solid set up. The LUNA summing would saturate and glue groups together while the mixer separates those groups so they're not in each others way, pairing a mixer with luna would also help with the subtle flatness of groups on a track mixed in the box, and that in turn could help with some frequency masking too.
From this test, I give it to the console. However, the difference is so small, I will not spend $1,000,000 for that difference. A few tweaks in the EQ & compression & a good set of ears is all you need. If it feels good, it's good. After all, this is art. There are no rules. Just opinions.
I've been using LUNA since the start last year alongside Pro Tools and have tried MANY times to get Pro Tools to sound as "open" as LUNA when mixing using their tape/console emulations. I'm really glad you noticed it so fast as it was the first thing for me when I started to use it. That and the depth that you mention. I think it extends to their plugins they make too (that they develop themselves, not the 3rd party UAD plugins) and I'm always surprised people don't hear it there either. I now pretty much just use Pro Tools for vocal editing/tuning etc where it still has some advantages with AudioSuite workflows etc. You might already know, but the LUNA team is lead by ex-Pro Tools people. 😉
Awesome video. Thank you, Melissa and Warren. The Luna version sounds really great. The UAD ecosystem seems to be a great way to bring a bit of the big console sound to small studios and home recording locations.
Yep, the piano recording was the real litmus for me….. console sounded so warm and full. Luna recording waaaaay to bright…. I would have eq’d the shite out of it. 😉
That LUNA system sounds fantastic. Actually really prefer the sound of it, instead of the console. There were subtle notes on the piano that just weren't even present at all on the console.
I wholeheartedly agree!!! The piano (via LUNA) sounded so incredibly vibrant and open, as well as all the other instruments, for that matter. You could really hear all the nuances.
This video convinced me to purchase the appolo 6 heritage edition which just came yesterday...WOW the greatest investment ever for recording plus Luna and alot of authorized plugins wich are killer you won't go wrong getting the X series of the appol their worth every penny thanks for the video
I’ve recently started using Luna for summing with tape emulation and it’s really helped to get the sound I was after , I’ve been using their plugins for a while and I’m very happy 😊
Luna's takes were much more sonically open. Definitely more sparkle and room to breathe on individual instrument with Luna. Maybe it is Melissa who is worth a million bucks!
yeh it does sound open and more modern. in the future you'll be able to choose your style of mix so luna is more future proof since you can start with all sonics vs just mixing in the classic room.
Very impressive results, the Luna version surprisingly open. Both sounded differently lovely. For my private creative studio, this video sold me into the UA Apollo - Luna ecosystem.
Can we please raise our hands, and give a round of applause for this incredible performance, (Not you Warren, you can relax your wrist) :) I know this is a technical nerdy subject to talk about with the gear, but man, this performance is SO ALIVE. Now thats been said, it really is amazing how far todays 1,0,1,0,1,1 numbers have come. I am so happy to hear what the digital world has to offer these days… And your reaction to the LUNA mix, thats priceless… Its brings me back to the time when the Tube Amp vs solid state Kemper blind test was done on UA-cam… I am still in aaawww over that video… Good stuff. Best regards Thomas
+1 for the drummer being so into it, sending the momentum back and forth through the body to get just the right amount power hitting the drums. And the faces was a bonus too.
LUNA was a blast for me. Owner of a home studio, I would never have imagined when I purchased my first Apollo Twin MKI 8 years ago that I would have access to an API console, well almost an API console :-) . Thanks Warren for your amazing channel and community!
The big difference to my ear is some what the compression, but also the older console has a more limited slew rate. That is where the openness and high end sparkle comes from.
Wow you clearly can read minds as I was just thinking last week how interesting it would be to hear a session done to analogue and digital at the same time (although I was imagining one to tape not DAW) with the emulated outboard etc to A/B. The console version has what I can only describe as more realism, to my ears anyway. GREAT video thank you!
THANKS SO MUCH WARREN~~ Great musicians and awesome session. I started to say the same thing that Luna had a lot of openness in it. The consul had a lot of warmth to it. I was not mad at neither one. 17 minutes in so far
With these modern software daw and a good ad/da converter audio interface you can fool the world that you have a multimillion dollar vintage studio full of high end outboard gears and a hybrid mixing desk
Apollo x4 and Luna are the best things to ever happen to my production protocol. In combination with the Softube Console and Fader units, my home studio is now my favorite studio. It has changed the way I mix into exactly what I always wanted it to be; analog behavior and flavor, with the god-like control of in the box production. I brag up the UAD stuff so much to everyone I meet... I should be on their payroll.
Got my X8P upgrade coming in today off the fed ex truck out here in Hawaii. Been using Logic Pro for years, but this makes me want to give Luna a try. Mahalo Warren! 🎶😎🤙🏼
Warren. In my humble opinion... when you played the Luna mix it was kinda muddy. But preferable to the flat thin sounding pro tools mix. However when you were soloing individual instruments the API desk tracks were VERY much better sounding. More detail . Broader range of harmonic content. This suggests to me that the API desk tracks mixed through Luna could be the winning combination !
Thanks for the A/B! I've recently discovered Luna via my investment in the x8p; and I feel like I did when I met Pro Tools for the first time, 20 years ago! Thanks for the point on the similarities in quick keys between Pro Tools and Luna! It's the little things!
Great job Warren! I've been a UAD user for about 5 years now with Pro Tools. Iv'e recently moved from all ITB to a hybrid thing with Neve and CAPI HW, along with wesaudio and Empirical stuff. This video shows that great mixes are closely tied to great performances. I've never used Luna, but the UA plugs are solid for sure. In the vast wilderness of so many plugin designers I prefer UA the best!
Great video. I love LUNA and the API vision plugins. Perhaps I'm a little biased, but the LUNA wins through for me. What you're saying about the extension on the highs and lows. Also for me, through my Genelec monitors, there it seems there is a bit more air/openness to the LUNA one. This is of course very subjective, but still, for a digital system, the quality that can be generated in an in the box mix, with good mics and rooms, is becoming very close to incredible quality studios.
Thanks Warren, for continuing to push the musical envelope! I just bought Luna, and am exploring its features. Probably will stay with Logic and MixBus as my go-to DAWs, but hey, we had an extra day this year, so let’s experiment!
that "openness" is exactly what i hear in luna as well. it does sound and feel more...open sounding than the same mix in protools. ive been working with luna for a few months as well and finding the same. there are still a lot of little annoying bugs, but for a year old program...its pretty incredible.
Good to see warren featuring uad gear in the channel. I’m a heavy uad user but I have not gelled much with luna, coming from ableton live is a massive undertaking, also some plugins do not run well in it in my experience.
Would be nice for one day someone of yours or Marc Daniel Nelson standards would try Harrison Mixbus 32c DAW for a full mix. I think it has an incredible sound but no one talks about it. Love your work always
I am a Mixbus user since day 1, and even tho they have finally released a win vst emulation, I wish they would release a full fledged consol overlay & get away from Adour......I just can not jell with that DAW!
I do prefer the Luna mix but would have liked to see Warren make the pre-amp adjustments for Luna only because he made the adjustments on the console. As a Techno/House Music producer and purchasing more DAWs than one should have in a lifetime ;-), LUNA is a game changer in sound quality over all other DAWS in my opinion. I can't wait to see luna grow and mature in years to come, it may become the industry standard. Huge fan of Produce like a Pro and have learned so much from this channel ;-) Great video!
I just recorded/produced/mixed a 4 track EP for my friend Hardteeth as my final project in my Music Production class and we recorded the drums and reamped all the bass and guitar thru an API 1608. I ended up summing the final stems through the same API console after I got a bulk of the mixes done inside protools. And man just having each stem get touched by a piece of analog gear and listening to those final prints are night and day with everything else I've produced in the past using strictly apollo unison pre's, plugins and soyuz mic launcher.
@@Leviathan-mj8gi Do you think you could give me a little more info as to what channel strip you would recommend. And when you say channel strip are you referring to one unit doing the job of many or building a strip using a few different pieces of gear. Talked to a buddy recently and hes far more into analog than I am and he strayed me away from all the Warm Audio stuff and Klark Technik stuff (pretty much anything that seemed affordable to me)
Great shootout comparison! I just got the Luna with the Apollo Twin Duo X and am loving it so far. It is so inspiring to get great sounds right in the box with just a few decent mics and have tons of options to color the tracks. Well done UA!
Hi Warren, thank you for yet another amazing video. However, i think that the panning in Luna is better which gives it a greater stereo vibe/openness than the pro tools version. More guitars especially in pro tools are panned dead center. Having said that, it is remarkable what companies like UAD have achieved. No one should have any excuses for making bad recordings anymore.
Hi there! I realize I'm a little late on that video...well done as it is, it leaves me puzzled. My initial response was: of course it sounds different - two people at the consoles have two different sets of ears. I would never prefer one over the other - my wallet does. I also think that Melissa did a great job. I love the clarity of the sound. I bet you anything: not being told which mix is which, I doubt that very many people could have made out the expensive console. But thank you for the opportunity of listening!
Just listened to the piano from the tracks. LUNA sounds un-naturally bright in higher octaves. At first pass I loved the seemingly infinite HF detail of the LUNA mix, but now think that it sounds less musical than the console mix. Musical glue? Thank you and Melissa for doing this, it is fascinating.
Seeing the comparison's is great especially the LUNA mix as I am a LUNA user and love it. I was hoping the LUNA project session file was going to be part of the download so it could just be opened as a complete mix as per the session to see how everything came together. Either way, both sounded fabulous but LUNA has something special about it which is why I love it so much and it's still in it's infancy so the future of LUNA is looking very promising indeed.
The only thing that matters when you're recording, mixing and mastering... Is your imagination, and the amount of love that you can imprint on any work! With a simple console, daw you can do wonders!
Nice job Warren & Melissa!!! They both sound great and I love that you've done this comparison. I totally agree with what Andrew Scheps says "What's important is what comes out of the speakers"!!! Thanks Warren & Melissa!!!
Because you're able to hit the console so hard, the low mids especially feel very filled out and satisfying. In the Luna version, I really noticed that it was a bit anemic in the low mids, which is where I find the relationship and balance between the highs and lows lives or dies in a mix. The Luna recording is 1000% useable and with some more work could sound amazing. But that board is doing a lot of things that are hard to quantify. It just feels right. I'm listening in a great room on amphions and a Rel sub through an RME ADI-2 PRO FS R, so these little differences are huge and easy to hear.
I’ve only ever had this experience with consoles Vs software, hence I ended up buying an SSL 4000. It’s something that simply can’t be replicated, easily, or at all, in the box.
@@kennethwilson1984 Yeah there's a depth in the low to high mids that I sometimes find lacking when tracking with built in preamps on an interface. Not always! The Focusrite Clarett line is AMAZING, but they're definitely on the cleaner side. But if I want depth, clarity, harmonics, and saturation, my outboard preamps and console blow it all away. This is for tracking. For mixing? All bets are off. I've had great success mixing all ITB and hybrid. No tonal quality lacking at all.
I would prefer the LUNA sound, it sounds more lively/real ....love this comparison! Thanks! Listening on headphones, now if this was at a greater volume and through speakers, the LUNA may become more piercing to the ear but that is another matter!
I just imported the files into my system. Without touching one fader, I can instantly hear the punch and clarity of the console tracks. They make the Luna tracks sound muddy and smeared. Now that isn't to say you couldn't mix both versions to sound more similar. But right of the bat, the console sounds WAY better to my ears. Like, to the point where I wish I had one now.
I’ve had the API Vision Bundle in my UA Cart for months. Saving-up my pennies for it. You’ve provided another great example as to why the API Emulation is truly beneficial & cost-effective. Thanks for the upload!!
@@Producelikeapro Could you please elaborate on how the signal was spilt, Warren? I believe a Line Level signal can be split up to 5 ways, but since the Mic Level signal is much lower voltage it’s a different ballgame. My understanding is an Active Splitter would be most ideal and any phantom power would typically be supplied from the active splitter. I’ve done a bunch of live recordings where I believe it was a simple passive snake wired in parallel. It went straight back to the FOH position and through a wall to the Studio position. In that scenario I would coordinate with the FOH sound man for any phantom power needs such as on the audience mics that only I was using. He would supply phantom to those and any other mics so we weren’t double sending it. For anyone looking to do a split for a live recording you’ll want to keep in mind that phantom power doesn’t flow across a transformer or a “transformer isolated split.” You’ll need to have a solid plan and be sure to coordinate with the venue and the live sound engineer as you’ll need physical space and you’ll be drastically impacting their workflow and timeline. I’m preaching to myself right now also!
Of course it's gonna sound killer...look at the mic setup over and around the kit!!!!!!! Toms are mic'd both batter and resonance heads. And 3 vintage 67's for overheads!!!!!! 13 mics on a 4 piece kit???? Put it through presonus and focusrite gear as well!
welp, 2:22 that was pretty good I think, I don't listen to this kind of music but it kept me engaged, idk if it was the singer, the singing, or the drummer,,, good stuff tho
GREAT comparison, Warren and Melissa, thank you! The keys and bass felt like they’d sit in a mix more naturally through the console but the space and clarity captured in LUNA is unreal. Who says all DAWs sound the same?! I use LUNA Summing myself, and the transient shaping achieved through the desk can be achieved through the Neve/API summing emulations. Would you consider picking different stems from each DAW for the final mix?
And yes, that might be an interesting idea to pick tracks from each DAW! I’d probably not combine drums tracks from different DAWs, however, I would do that with individual instruments
Great Job Mr Warren, when I watch the video again only what I consider is first DAW has deferment tone that enhance the Audio, for example if We want to judge this well We should find a means of tracking the Song through Luna plug in into Pro Tools and without the Console if possible to compare, also track the Song through the Console directly into Luna without its Plug ins and let's listen the deference, by the way You have really done a great Job by doing this. Thank You.
That sunset console version is so much more easier to listen to and has a much more forgiving sound. There’s no nasty clashing hardness in the top mids that I hear in the Luna version.
this reminds me of the difference I hear between my TAC mic pres vs. my MOTU mic pres. They both have their own unique strengths. I would not want to live without those warm console sounds, but the convenience and ease of the MOTU is downright invaluable to my work flow. - Great work, and great song!! You guys nailed it.
I'm in the UAD "eco system", but on a PC. I think Melissa put it best. When you have great musicians, great mics in a great room, it sounds great. Really? What a surprise :). I'm not sad, not having Luna. UAD basically reinvented the DAW and I would have very much prefered, if they had updated the implementations, so that these functions (zero latency, instruments, etc) would be available in all existing DAWs. I like the Unison pres and use them from time to time, although I prefer my hardware pre, just for the feel. Me, like many windows users were a little p*****, when basically all major changes were IOS only. Now, I do not need it anymore. Huge shoutout to the very nice people at UAD, it's not their fault and thanks to you for that effort.
Getting every major DAW to redo their layout to offer the features and workflow of Luna would be a huge undertaking and it still would only work for Apollo users. One result would be these other daws would familiarize everyone with the Luna workflow which would simply encourage people to switch to Luna (so it would be bad for business for everyone but UA unless someone somehow implemented Apollo’s better than UA, which is kind of a long shot).... The vast majority of the market is Mac and has been for decades and businesses are going to keep reflecting that as long as it’s true. Yes it sucks for Windows users, but it’s not any company’s fault (just common sense for them to put their R&D cash mostly to Mac) and isn’t going to change any time soon.
@@busyboxst7 That wasn't what I said, neither meant. As I said, I'm a windows user and more than 20 years ago Steinberg invented ASIO and VST. The first to enable low latency multichannel audio, the last to host plugins. Both were created to be used by whatever company and are now industry standard on windows. This may be all different on IOS, but such software interfaces could have become gamechangers. Would this have turned all DAWs into LUNA? No, of course not and I'm happy for you, if this is exactly what you need. What I would have hoped for, was an open standard to implement DSP driven systems in every DAW, like ASIO decades ago and a plugin host format, like AAS and/or VST.
@@peterbrandt7911 I understand your follow up comment, however it's hard to deduce much of that from your first comment, thus my confusion. So is this -> correct? You were hoping that UA would make a coding standard for external DSP to work in all DAWs, so that other (software and hardware) companies who wanted to utilize SHARC chips specifically (that's what UA plugs have to be coded for - I think? I'm not a coder) could do so without having to figure out the coding themselves. And that any brand's plugins would work on any brand's external DSP? Is that what you mean?
I’m late to the party 😂😂😂 but currently outgrowing my workstation and looking to expand. Been a PC guy for a while but looking to get into the Mac world and shopping around for a DAW that could be my general hub for my ideal hybrid setup. This video confirmed so much for me and I wanted to just say thanks for sharing your experience with Luna with us. Appreciate you Warren.
Have you used a console before? Do you prefer working on a console or working inside of your DAW? If you've used LUNA please let me know your thoughts on it below!
Console but I have no space for a console…
I miss consoles. Live sound I can walk up to most consoles and start turning knobs pre-sound-check. And then once sound check starts it's just tweaking. Honestly, if these DAW cartoon mixing consoles could just have a 3 or 4 band eq in them as default like a console it would save a lot of headache. In the old days it was so simple. I know I know ... I can kind of do it on the cartoon unit but it's not the same. I should really get a mixer I guess.
If you could install a console into my bedroom and teach me how to use it, I would be happy to tell you, Warren. 😂
@@evlplms7635 Haha I hear you!
I'm liking the luna one😵 def a big surprise! Both are amazing obviously
The million dollar question is do you hear a million dollars extra in the pro tools mix and the answer is NO. I even prefer the sound in Luna om my speakers. It sounds more open and alive. This is amazing because now you can create music, buy a house, a car and boat all at the same time. It is a good time to be alive.
Was gonna say, I actually prefer the Luna sound. Which is surprising!
I bought an Apollo 8xp this year and it has totally changed my home recording life. It blows my old interface out of the water and allows me to get the sound of drums I’m after before I’m even in the mixing phase and without needing thousands of dollars of outboard gear.
Glad to hear it Christopher!
That thing is $5500 here in Australia. So it IS thousands of dollars of outboard gear!
Stellar job as usual Warren!! Glad to see you're having a good time and making great music with LUNA and Apollo!
Thanks! Yes, finally! We've been asked 100's of times for thus video and we finally got it done! It was a blast to be able t0o di it and I hope it helps a lot of people out so they can play with the multi tracks and have some fun with these amazing musicians in an incredible room!
The video only makes me want Luna for windows that much more lol- great job
Hey guys, I am waiting for another console extension like ssl or neve, what do you say? Api is not quite my taste although it sounds gorgeous..
Thanks UA for making such amazing products so we can make and share music!
@@livelikeus4980 marvellous!
Melissa mentions something very important - the fact that a great engineer, great mics, great instruments and correct gain staging and preamp function means that you don't have to use that much compression. Listen to Bruce Swedien and Alan Parsons - they share this philosophy and their productions are famous for their rich dynamic motion and sound quality.
Yes, Al Schmitt, Steve Genewick and of course Niko Bolas all practiced this technique. It’s dependent on the song, performance and the artist.
You mean when working on a console, right? 😉
One thing to keep in mind is that I was being a BIT safe where possible since I was having to keep up with the session instead of driving it. It could’ve been pushed a bit more in line with the console, but I think hearing just how close it can get is hopefully really encouraging to folks!
You did an amazing job Melissa!
Top work 👍🏾
@@Simbabhebhe yes! Melissa did an amazing job!
Melissa are you able to share your Luna session? Not just the tracks?
@@rickwaters7193 That would be up to Warren and co. - they have the session file.
I wasn't expecting a difference like this. It's a significant difference in the mids imho. The Luna mix sounds like a classic "ITB" mix kind of. Very punchy present snare, everything is a bit separated, the low-end is clean and nice, a lot of resonances here and there (low-mid, highs).
Console mix has more mids, less snare punch, everything sounds more finished already, more workable.
The balance seems also completely different, to the point I am wondering if it's not what makes the biggest difference in the end.
Receiving a tracking session sounding like the desk here sounds much easier to work with and makes it "amazing" when mixing.
I wasn't expecting it to be "that" different actually, thanks for making this :).
Luna with Neve extensions engaged, no latency when tracking with those endless top plug in choices, enough dsp and the Ampex & Studer on master tape slots or sends with an X-Touch yes, X-Touch controller and an SSL UC1. Very happy indeed Warren.
Fantastic! Thanks ever so much Andy! I appreciate hearing from people who use Luna on a daily basis.
I'm pretty sure there aren't even many other studios that can compare to Sunset Sound. Since most of us are unlikely to get anywhere near a half decent studio and console with our music, I can't believe how lucky I am to live in a world where I can have access to something like LUNA for free (because I use a UAD interface) that is talked about in comparison with a console recording at the studio where Prince, Led Zep, Stones, Joplin, Doors, Beach Boys and Van Halen etc recorded :-). Warren, Melissa, the incredible (I'm lost for superlatives) musicians and engineers etc - you are all amazing people to share your knowledge and wealth of experience with people like me. Thanks a million!
Thanks ever so much for your great comment! Yes, I’m truly blessed to be able to work at such an amazing studio as Sunset Sound!!
I've been using UA Apollo's since 2012 when they first came out. I have three of the rack hardware units, one from each generation and I'm about to purchase another for my new mixing room. I started using LUNA right after it came out in April 2020. Pro Tools user for years prior. I used both for a while until I got past the learning curve of LUNA and have used it almost exclusively now for quite sometime. Still have my PT subscription but I rarely use it anymore. I don't have a lot of outboard gear, so the results I can get with my setup and LUNA are really satisfying. I just have to keep working at the craft of tracking and mixing. Loved the comparison Warren. The band sounds amazing, really excellent song and Melissa did a fantastic job explaining the setup. Thanks again!
Uh… I’m actually really really surprised. The Luna sounds brilliant!!! Thank you to everyone involved, for putting this together.
Thanks Taz! I really appreciate it!
I'm gonna say it: I love how Luna sounds. Well done to all those involved. Looks fun! Thanks to Melissa as well.
Thanks Lee!
I feel you, it does have a sound. I don’t know how to explain it but it’s almost like running a mix trough a good converter..
@@elkolo2857 thanks for sharing!
Lee Chapman! I've chatted with you on the Academy. You reset my password for me. Which I need to do again....
The drums in LUNA sound more modern and punchy. I like this, but I feel this is probably a bias of mine due to the modern metal drums I am used to listening to.
The guitars sound absolutely beautiful through the console. Closing my eyes, I felt like I was in the same room as the musicians.
On a side note, I love listening to people like Melissa Bell talk. Intelligent , informative, concise and no wasted words in the explanation. Thanks for sharing.
Oh wow, to me I absolutely prefer the Luna recording. It is absolutely the openness that you talked about, it’s beautifully full range
Thanks for sharing!
I’ve been a proud UAD user for some time now and their platform has once again stood up to the ultimate test. Great video, Warren!
Thanks ever so much!
A x4 & 2 x8ps is my dream rig! Great as always Warren! Thanks to everyone involved
Thanks ever so much
Luna is incredibly powerful.
Its so easy to achieve a wonderful sound and IN THE BOX!!! The biggest difference I hear is the width, depth and space of the board mix. I like that mix way better. But I bet if you pair luna with a summing mixer like a dangerous dbox I think you got yourself a pretty solid set up. The LUNA summing would saturate and glue groups together while the mixer separates those groups so they're not in each others way, pairing a mixer with luna would also help with the subtle flatness of groups on a track mixed in the box, and that in turn could help with some frequency masking too.
I with my new UA X4 and Luna ... this is what I needed this morning along with a cup of coffee, ... Thanks Warren!...
Thanks Ace!
Been on the Luna train for a while now ... never jumping off ... it sounds bloody incredible.
Great video mate!
Thanks for sharing
From this test, I give it to the console. However, the difference is so small, I will not spend $1,000,000 for that difference. A few tweaks in the EQ & compression & a good set of ears is all you need. If it feels good, it's good. After all, this is art. There are no rules. Just opinions.
Thanks ever so much Ken for sharing!
I've been using LUNA since the start last year alongside Pro Tools and have tried MANY times to get Pro Tools to sound as "open" as LUNA when mixing using their tape/console emulations. I'm really glad you noticed it so fast as it was the first thing for me when I started to use it. That and the depth that you mention. I think it extends to their plugins they make too (that they develop themselves, not the 3rd party UAD plugins) and I'm always surprised people don't hear it there either. I now pretty much just use Pro Tools for vocal editing/tuning etc where it still has some advantages with AudioSuite workflows etc. You might already know, but the LUNA team is lead by ex-Pro Tools people. 😉
Wow
Same . Been using Luna since it came out. It’s a stellar product and IMHO should replace pro toools as the industry standard
Awesome video. Thank you, Melissa and Warren. The Luna version sounds really great. The UAD ecosystem seems to be a great way to bring a bit of the big console sound to small studios and home recording locations.
Thanks ever so much Marc!!
Wow... I truly love the drummer. His timing is impeccable. The bass player is also as smooth as freshly cut butter...!
Yep, the piano recording was the real litmus for me….. console sounded so warm and full. Luna recording waaaaay to bright…. I would have eq’d the shite out of it. 😉
Haha you can! Download the tracks and mix them however you like!
Yeah i also preferred the piano on the console. but overall, i enjoyed the sound of Luna more because it felt so much more dynamic and present.
dam.. that bass tone.. the flow is just gorgeous. its so nice
Thanks ever so much
That LUNA system sounds fantastic. Actually really prefer the sound of it, instead of the console. There were subtle notes on the piano that just weren't even present at all on the console.
The Luna piano recording sounded like a VST plugin, haha.
I wholeheartedly agree!!! The piano (via LUNA) sounded so incredibly vibrant and open, as well as all the other instruments, for that matter. You could really hear all the nuances.
This video convinced me to purchase the appolo 6 heritage edition which just came yesterday...WOW the greatest investment ever for recording plus Luna and alot of authorized plugins wich are killer you won't go wrong getting the X series of the appol their worth every penny thanks for the video
I could hear Luna’s openness even through the iPad. Hands down, I like the Luna mix much better.
I’ve recently started using Luna for summing with tape emulation and it’s really helped to get the sound I was after , I’ve been using their plugins for a while and I’m very happy 😊
Luna's takes were much more sonically open. Definitely more sparkle and room to breathe on individual instrument with Luna. Maybe it is Melissa who is worth a million bucks!
Thanks ever so much for sharing!
Yes, Melissa is AMAZING!!
yeh it does sound open and more modern. in the future you'll be able to choose your style of mix so luna is more future proof since you can start with all sonics vs just mixing in the classic room.
Very impressive results, the Luna version surprisingly open. Both sounded differently lovely. For my private creative studio, this video sold me into the UA Apollo - Luna ecosystem.
Can we please raise our hands, and give a round of applause for this incredible performance, (Not you Warren, you can relax your wrist) :)
I know this is a technical nerdy subject to talk about with the gear, but man, this performance is SO ALIVE.
Now thats been said, it really is amazing how far todays 1,0,1,0,1,1 numbers have come. I am so happy to hear what the digital world has to offer these days…
And your reaction to the LUNA mix, thats priceless…
Its brings me back to the time when the Tube Amp vs solid state Kemper blind test was done on UA-cam…
I am still in aaawww over that video…
Good stuff.
Best regards
Thomas
Thanks ever so much for your wonderful comment! I really appreciate it
Thanks for saying that ... It was a beautiful performance, in the end that's what it's about right?
+1 for the drummer being so into it, sending the momentum back and forth through the body to get just the right amount power hitting the drums. And the faces was a bonus too.
Sounds wonderful....that lead singer has a beautiful voice too!
LUNA was a blast for me. Owner of a home studio, I would never have imagined when I purchased my first Apollo Twin MKI 8 years ago that I would have access to an API console, well almost an API console :-) . Thanks Warren for your amazing channel and community!
Thanks ever so much for your get comment!
The big difference to my ear is some what the compression, but also the older console has a more limited slew rate. That is where the openness and high end sparkle comes from.
Thanks for sharing Michael!
I agree, console sounds a bit slow in transient response
Wow you clearly can read minds as I was just thinking last week how interesting it would be to hear a session done to analogue and digital at the same time (although I was imagining one to tape not DAW) with the emulated outboard etc to A/B. The console version has what I can only describe as more realism, to my ears anyway. GREAT video thank you!
Thanks ever so much Craig! Glad to be able to help!
The familiar analog sound and workflow of LUNA and my UA Solo has made recording inspiring again for me. ✨🔊
Great to hear!
I’m a big fan of Luna. The workflow is very intuitive. And it sounds great.
Thanks for sharing
THANKS SO MUCH WARREN~~ Great musicians and awesome session. I started to say the same thing that Luna had a lot of openness in it. The consul had a lot of warmth to it. I was not mad at neither one. 17 minutes in so far
I mean it’s so close and so very subtle but that console version piano just seemed more defined. But man good stuff with that Luna! 👍🏻
Thanks Ben!
With these modern software daw and a good ad/da converter audio interface you can fool the world that you have a multimillion dollar vintage studio full of high end outboard gears and a hybrid mixing desk
Great comparison! We use LUNA for summing in most cases but great to see what it can do on the tracking side as well.
Thanks for sharing!!
It was a great time capturing those amazing musicians live. Can’t wait to hear the final version with the strings.
Apollo x4 and Luna are the best things to ever happen to my production protocol. In combination with the Softube Console and Fader units, my home studio is now my favorite studio. It has changed the way I mix into exactly what I always wanted it to be; analog behavior and flavor, with the god-like control of in the box production. I brag up the UAD stuff so much to everyone I meet... I should be on their payroll.
Got my X8P upgrade coming in today off the fed ex truck out here in Hawaii. Been using Logic Pro for years, but this makes me want to give Luna a try. Mahalo Warren! 🎶😎🤙🏼
Fantastic! Thanks ever so much for sharing!
Warren. In my humble opinion... when you played the Luna mix it was kinda muddy. But preferable to the flat thin sounding pro tools mix. However when you were soloing individual instruments the API desk tracks were VERY much better sounding. More detail . Broader range of harmonic content. This suggests to me that the API desk tracks mixed through Luna could be the winning combination !
Thanks ever so much for sharing!
Thanks for the A/B! I've recently discovered Luna via my investment in the x8p; and I feel like I did when I met Pro Tools for the first time, 20 years ago! Thanks for the point on the similarities in quick keys between Pro Tools and Luna! It's the little things!
Thanks for sharing!
Great job Warren! I've been a UAD user for about 5 years now with Pro Tools. Iv'e recently moved from all ITB to a hybrid thing with Neve and CAPI HW, along with wesaudio and Empirical stuff. This video shows that great mixes are closely tied to great performances. I've never used Luna, but the UA plugs are solid for sure. In the vast wilderness of so many plugin designers I prefer UA the best!
Great video. I love LUNA and the API vision plugins. Perhaps I'm a little biased, but the LUNA wins through for me. What you're saying about the extension on the highs and lows. Also for me, through my Genelec monitors, there it seems there is a bit more air/openness to the LUNA one. This is of course very subjective, but still, for a digital system, the quality that can be generated in an in the box mix, with good mics and rooms, is becoming very close to incredible quality studios.
Thanks ever so much for sharing!
Thanks Warren, for continuing to push the musical envelope! I just bought Luna, and am exploring its features. Probably will stay with Logic and MixBus as my go-to DAWs, but hey, we had an extra day this year, so let’s experiment!
I’m a very enthusiastic Luna. Have been since day one. I think it sounds great and is fun to use.
Fantastic!! Thanks for sharing Chris!!
Been using Luna from day one. Been using it exclusively when my Pro Tools subscription came up for renewal, which had doubled in price.
I use LUNA almost exclusively! I have uploaded a few mixes using LUNA in the Feedback Forum! (Stephen Bishop PLAP Lifetime member) Love it!!
that "openness" is exactly what i hear in luna as well. it does sound and feel more...open sounding than the same mix in protools. ive been working with luna for a few months as well and finding the same. there are still a lot of little annoying bugs, but for a year old program...its pretty incredible.
Good to see warren featuring uad gear in the channel. I’m a heavy uad user but I have not gelled much with luna, coming from ableton live is a massive undertaking, also some plugins do not run well in it in my experience.
Thanks for sharing your insight Raphael! Glad you enjoyed the video!
I like the clarity in LUNA :)
Would be nice for one day someone of yours or Marc Daniel Nelson standards would try Harrison Mixbus 32c DAW for a full mix. I think it has an incredible sound but no one talks about it. Love your work always
I would love to! Great idea
@@Producelikeapro Wow - can’t wait. Thank you Warren. Awesome community 🙏
I agree..Underrated software.
Yes Harrison Mixbus 32c sound great.
I am a Mixbus user since day 1, and even tho they have finally released a win vst emulation, I wish they would release a full fledged consol overlay & get away from Adour......I just can not jell with that DAW!
I do prefer the Luna mix but would have liked to see Warren make the pre-amp adjustments for Luna only because he made the adjustments on the console.
As a Techno/House Music producer and purchasing more DAWs than one should have in a lifetime ;-), LUNA is a game changer in sound quality over all other DAWS in my opinion.
I can't wait to see luna grow and mature in years to come, it may become the industry standard.
Huge fan of Produce like a Pro and have learned so much from this channel ;-) Great video!
I just recorded/produced/mixed a 4 track EP for my friend Hardteeth as my final project in my Music Production class and we recorded the drums and reamped all the bass and guitar thru an API 1608. I ended up summing the final stems through the same API console after I got a bulk of the mixes done inside protools. And man just having each stem get touched by a piece of analog gear and listening to those final prints are night and day with everything else I've produced in the past using strictly apollo unison pre's, plugins and soyuz mic launcher.
@@Leviathan-mj8gi Do you think you could give me a little more info as to what channel strip you would recommend. And when you say channel strip are you referring to one unit doing the job of many or building a strip using a few different pieces of gear. Talked to a buddy recently and hes far more into analog than I am and he strayed me away from all the Warm Audio stuff and Klark Technik stuff (pretty much anything that seemed affordable to me)
Great shootout comparison! I just got the Luna with the Apollo Twin Duo X and am loving it so far. It is so inspiring to get great sounds right in the box with just a few decent mics and have tons of options to color the tracks. Well done UA!
I deffo think Luna wins it. This has convinced me to start using it as I have a great UA setup..Nice work Warren..
Thanks ever so much!!
Yes! Warren, the openess and low, lows on the Luna was noticeable!
Hi Warren, thank you for yet another amazing video. However, i think that the panning in Luna is better which gives it a greater stereo vibe/openness than the pro tools version. More guitars especially in pro tools are panned dead center. Having said that, it is remarkable what companies like UAD have achieved. No one should have any excuses for making bad recordings anymore.
Please feel free to download the tracks and play with them yourself!
This convinced me to use my Nebula SSL again. There this pleasant "blur", transient rounding and high frequency roll-off in the console mix.
Impressed with Luna… superb content 👍
Thanks ever so much!!
that was a wonderful journey in sound thanks agin warren awesome, something to really ponder on.
Glad you enjoyed it
For me the "real thing" is more natural, but Luna sound great
Thanks for sharing
Hi there!
I realize I'm a little late on that video...well done as it is, it leaves me puzzled.
My initial response was: of course it sounds different - two people at the consoles have two different sets of ears.
I would never prefer one over the other - my wallet does.
I also think that Melissa did a great job. I love the clarity of the sound.
I bet you anything: not being told which mix is which, I doubt that very many people could have made out the expensive console.
But thank you for the opportunity of listening!
Love It, Melissa Rocks!!! Always sharing great tips and a lot of knowledge on how to mix! Superb episode & tutorial :)
Just listened to the piano from the tracks. LUNA sounds un-naturally bright in higher octaves. At first pass I loved the seemingly infinite HF detail of the LUNA mix, but now think that it sounds less musical than the console mix. Musical glue? Thank you and Melissa for doing this, it is fascinating.
...wow this is amazing, thanks
as always: you rock, Warren!
Thanks ever so Marcos!
Brilliant Warren and Melissa, outstanding results with multi tracks. Produce like a Pro is priceless!
Thanks ever so much
Glad to be able to help
It is just spectacular, what you are doing here and wich opportunity to experience you give to us!! Thank you so much!!
Thanks ever so much! I really appreciate it!
Seeing the comparison's is great especially the LUNA mix as I am a LUNA user and love it. I was hoping the LUNA project session file was going to be part of the download so it could just be opened as a complete mix as per the session to see how everything came together. Either way, both sounded fabulous but LUNA has something special about it which is why I love it so much and it's still in it's infancy so the future of LUNA is looking very promising indeed.
Hey UNIVERSAL AUDIO! Do a mixing competition for this thing!!!
Thanks ever so much!
I like the feeling and glue of the console. Luna also sounds great and has a more modern sound in terms of cleanliness..
The only thing that matters when you're recording, mixing and mastering... Is your imagination, and the amount of love that you can imprint on any work! With a simple console, daw you can do wonders!
Indeed! The song, the song and the song is ALL that matters! However, you can post this comment under ANY recording related Video.
Nice job Warren & Melissa!!! They both sound great and I love that you've done this comparison. I totally agree with what Andrew Scheps says "What's important is what comes out of the speakers"!!! Thanks Warren & Melissa!!!
Because you're able to hit the console so hard, the low mids especially feel very filled out and satisfying. In the Luna version, I really noticed that it was a bit anemic in the low mids, which is where I find the relationship and balance between the highs and lows lives or dies in a mix. The Luna recording is 1000% useable and with some more work could sound amazing. But that board is doing a lot of things that are hard to quantify. It just feels right. I'm listening in a great room on amphions and a Rel sub through an RME ADI-2 PRO FS R, so these little differences are huge and easy to hear.
I’ve only ever had this experience with consoles Vs software, hence I ended up buying an SSL 4000. It’s something that simply can’t be replicated, easily, or at all, in the box.
@@kennethwilson1984 Yeah there's a depth in the low to high mids that I sometimes find lacking when tracking with built in preamps on an interface. Not always! The Focusrite Clarett line is AMAZING, but they're definitely on the cleaner side. But if I want depth, clarity, harmonics, and saturation, my outboard preamps and console blow it all away. This is for tracking. For mixing? All bets are off. I've had great success mixing all ITB and hybrid. No tonal quality lacking at all.
Another great vid Warren, many thanks and I hope your wrist is healing well.
I would prefer the LUNA sound, it sounds more lively/real ....love this comparison! Thanks! Listening on headphones, now if this was at a greater volume and through speakers, the LUNA may become more piercing to the ear but that is another matter!
Thanks ever so much Clyde!
Классный звук и классная песня)
The console one sounded quite a lot better to me, but not as much as it would cost to get there.
Thanks for sharing!
I just imported the files into my system. Without touching one fader, I can instantly hear the punch and clarity of the console tracks. They make the Luna tracks sound muddy and smeared. Now that isn't to say you couldn't mix both versions to sound more similar. But right of the bat, the console sounds WAY better to my ears. Like, to the point where I wish I had one now.
Warren you are a good dude!
Thanks ever so much! Glad to be able to help
I’ve had the API Vision Bundle in my UA Cart for months. Saving-up my pennies for it. You’ve provided another great example as to why the API Emulation is truly beneficial & cost-effective. Thanks for the upload!!
An amazing comparison! What did you use to split the signal?
Split from the Mics, both units got exactly the same source
@@Producelikeapro Could you please elaborate on how the signal was spilt, Warren? I believe a Line Level signal can be split up to 5 ways, but since the Mic Level signal is much lower voltage it’s a different ballgame. My understanding is an Active Splitter would be most ideal and any phantom power would typically be supplied from the active splitter. I’ve done a bunch of live recordings where I believe it was a simple passive snake wired in parallel. It went straight back to the FOH position and through a wall to the Studio position. In that scenario I would coordinate with the FOH sound man for any phantom power needs such as on the audience mics that only I was using. He would supply phantom to those and any other mics so we weren’t double sending it. For anyone looking to do a split for a live recording you’ll want to keep in mind that phantom power doesn’t flow across a transformer or a “transformer isolated split.” You’ll need to have a solid plan and be sure to coordinate with the venue and the live sound engineer as you’ll need physical space and you’ll be drastically impacting their workflow and timeline. I’m preaching to myself right now also!
WoW! Luna is WARM and Opens up!!
Of course it's gonna sound killer...look at the mic setup over and around the kit!!!!!!! Toms are mic'd both batter and resonance heads. And 3 vintage 67's for overheads!!!!!! 13 mics on a 4 piece kit???? Put it through presonus and focusrite gear as well!
Yes Chris, we did that 4 years ago! Here it is:- ua-cam.com/video/EMLZl52az6g/v-deo.html
welp, 2:22 that was pretty good I think, I don't listen to this kind of music but it kept me engaged, idk if it was the singer, the singing, or the drummer,,, good stuff tho
The Analog console deals with the high mids much better than UAD Luna.
Thanks for sharing
GREAT comparison, Warren and Melissa, thank you! The keys and bass felt like they’d sit in a mix more naturally through the console but the space and clarity captured in LUNA is unreal. Who says all DAWs sound the same?!
I use LUNA Summing myself, and the transient shaping achieved through the desk can be achieved through the Neve/API summing emulations. Would you consider picking different stems from each DAW for the final mix?
You rock Ed! Thanks for sharing your experience
And yes, that might be an interesting idea to pick tracks from each DAW! I’d probably not combine drums tracks from different DAWs, however, I would do that with individual instruments
@@Producelikeapro Oh for sure, all drums from Luna, Bass and keys from the analog desk were my initial thoughts 🤘
They both sound great! However, there's more density/tightness coming from the console. Does it matter? Probably not in today's world. hahaha
Thanks ever so much!
Not even a little IMO
Great Job Mr Warren, when I watch the video again only what I consider is first DAW has deferment tone that enhance the Audio, for example if We want to judge this well We should find a means of tracking the Song through Luna plug in into Pro Tools and without the Console if possible to compare, also track the Song through the Console directly into Luna without its Plug ins and let's listen the deference, by the way You have really done a great Job by doing this. Thank You.
That sunset console version is so much more easier to listen to and has a much more forgiving sound. There’s no nasty clashing hardness in the top mids that I hear in the Luna version.
this reminds me of the difference I hear between my TAC mic pres vs. my MOTU mic pres. They both have their own unique strengths. I would not want to live without those warm console sounds, but the convenience and ease of the MOTU is downright invaluable to my work flow. - Great work, and great song!! You guys nailed it.
I'm in the UAD "eco system", but on a PC. I think Melissa put it best. When you have great musicians, great mics in a great room, it sounds great. Really? What a surprise :).
I'm not sad, not having Luna. UAD basically reinvented the DAW and I would have very much prefered, if they had updated the implementations, so that these functions (zero latency, instruments, etc) would be available in all existing DAWs.
I like the Unison pres and use them from time to time, although I prefer my hardware pre, just for the feel.
Me, like many windows users were a little p*****, when basically all major changes were IOS only. Now, I do not need it anymore.
Huge shoutout to the very nice people at UAD, it's not their fault and thanks to you for that effort.
Getting every major DAW to redo their layout to offer the features and workflow of Luna would be a huge undertaking and it still would only work for Apollo users. One result would be these other daws would familiarize everyone with the Luna workflow which would simply encourage people to switch to Luna (so it would be bad for business for everyone but UA unless someone somehow implemented Apollo’s better than UA, which is kind of a long shot).... The vast majority of the market is Mac and has been for decades and businesses are going to keep reflecting that as long as it’s true. Yes it sucks for Windows users, but it’s not any company’s fault (just common sense for them to put their R&D cash mostly to Mac) and isn’t going to change any time soon.
Absolutely Peter, it’s always going to be about the song and performance!
Thanks Busy for sharing your insight
@@busyboxst7 That wasn't what I said, neither meant.
As I said, I'm a windows user and more than 20 years ago Steinberg invented ASIO and VST. The first to enable low latency multichannel audio, the last to host plugins. Both were created to be used by whatever company and are now industry standard on windows.
This may be all different on IOS, but such software interfaces could have become gamechangers.
Would this have turned all DAWs into LUNA? No, of course not and I'm happy for you, if this is exactly what you need. What I would have hoped for, was an open standard to implement DSP driven systems in every DAW, like ASIO decades ago and a plugin host format, like AAS and/or VST.
@@peterbrandt7911 I understand your follow up comment, however it's hard to deduce much of that from your first comment, thus my confusion. So is this -> correct? You were hoping that UA would make a coding standard for external DSP to work in all DAWs, so that other (software and hardware) companies who wanted to utilize SHARC chips specifically (that's what UA plugs have to be coded for - I think? I'm not a coder) could do so without having to figure out the coding themselves. And that any brand's plugins would work on any brand's external DSP? Is that what you mean?
I’m late to the party 😂😂😂 but currently outgrowing my workstation and looking to expand. Been a PC guy for a while but looking to get into the Mac world and shopping around for a DAW that could be my general hub for my ideal hybrid setup. This video confirmed so much for me and I wanted to just say thanks for sharing your experience with Luna with us. Appreciate you Warren.
The real lesson is invest in good microphones folks.
We also used the Townsend on her vocals! It's amazing!
6:48 So glad to see Melissa Bell. She knows so much and at such an early age.