I have friends who work for an electronics company. For every one of them, their wages today are only two-thirds to 60% of what they were ten years ago. They continue to work for the same company because there are few jobs to be had. They are afraid to leave and try elsewhere, because most jobs here are restricted hours/part-time and usually minimum wage. No-one, married and both earning, has a hope of buying a house, and yet they are paying rents that would easily be the equal of a mortgage payment on a small starter home ten years ago. And here comes some tory to tell them they've never had it so good. I'd cheerfully reserve a lamp-post for the idiot.
We've never had it so good because most of us have a fresh coffee maker. *Except everyone who can't have one.* Unbelievable. Does she realise she's becoming a parody of her own arguments?
Johnson is far too sporadic and spends far too much time hoping around _non sequitur_ examples. She even managed to quote examples that when entirely against her point.
Within the first seconds Jesse Norman pisses me off. The reference to schooling unnecessary? I don't think so -- the over saturation of old etonians is an embarrassing display of the class and wealth divide in the uk.
must be nice to not only be wealthy enough to be having it so good but to be able to lecture the rest of us that it's the case for us all... no it frickin aint!
The question is, what is the motivation of people who remind us that despite our problems today, "we've never had it so good". On the one hand, certainly all of us know this is true in itself, so saying it would seem irrelevant. On the other hand, are they saying it as an excuse to curb progress. Certainly we have groups with vested interest in the status quo, also a totally uncontroversial fact.
@@johannesdesilentio1536 Name one time in recent history and one time in distant history where a randomly selected person in the world would be better off economically or comfort/safety wise than they are today? I think the question is do all these goods, services, comforts that are more abundantly available to all of us actually make us feel like we have it "good," and that is what was largely argued by the victorious opponents here. No doubt your average person has a better, more reliable car, with more features in the UK than they did a generation ago. They also have access to world class education, free lectures from Yale and other universities... However, they are also living in a state of increased anxiety due to constant bombardment of negativity from media, news and social media. If they aren't paying attention to that, then often it's a state of anxiety about their social media posts, who likes it, etc. What is the solution?
Either Norman is deliberately doing an impersonation of Boris Johnson, or these Etonian hooray henry clones are manufactured in a factory somewhere outside London.
Totally agree with Will Self, how can we say that we've never had it so good when we can never truly understand or know the feelings of the person most closest to us? I'm sure if you ask a homeless person the question in contrast to an upper class citizen the question you'd get different answers. The question is completely relative to the individual being asked and is why its such a pointless question. Love these debates though
Funny and eery to watch this now... Sort of like my ancestors back in 1919 Soviet Russia sitting around a crudely made metal stove, burning their furniture in it, and reading The Apollo (arts and literature) magazine from 1913...
Never having it so good should mean that if you are in full employment you should be financially o.k. . Well to put it simply millions of people are in full employment and struggling. 40 yrs of wage stagnation opposed to a huge increase in wealth by the 1% . That is a cheque mate to any idea of ' we've never had it so good'
When in recent history and distant history did we have it better in terms of material goods, comforts and services and access to information? I know I drive a better car, with a better cell phone and live in a better house than my parents did at my age. Especially since cell phones didn't exist. I also have air conditioning which is something that they didn't always have
We've never had so much pressure and so many opportunities offshored or given to foreigners... I've seen real wages stagnate while house prices rise exponentially. Food prices rising, bills too... As a poor person I've got poorer in real terms while you rich-heads got richer off my hard work. Electronics may be cheaper but that's a landfill of poison for the brain-warped, mobile phone addicted kids smashed in the head by social media and communication overload.
The vast majority of people today, even those in lower socioeconomic classes, have a better life than kings ever had. Even kings didn't have access to an almost endless supply of clean drinking water and people have regular access to food kings only ate on special occasion. There's also a good chance you'll never meet someone who lost a child or wife/mother giving birth. If you get sick your doctors won't "bleed" you in order to balance the body's humors. You will also live much longer than most kings and travel further and more safely than any king could dream of. The level of sanitation you experience is far superior to what kings had and your house isn't always filled with smoke. You have access to more information, education, clothing and leisure activities than most king ever had.
Rachel Johnson appeared seriously out of her depth. I thought Boris was a waffler, but she's far worse. I bet her debating partner was wincing all the way though her airy-fairy ramble. Why the hell did he accept to team up with such a numpty.
" I love will self ".................. You must set your bar very low then!! Will Self looks and sounds like the living DEAD. Will self would be more happy if we were ALL SKINT just so long as we were all the same.
To those who did not understand Will Self's argument . When he used to word 'We' In a totalitarian sense , he was referring to the growing trend of society to view all members of society as a collective group of consumer demand and determining how well off a community is by looking at how much money goes in and out of the system . He also implys that 'Never' and 'Good' are subjective terms . Yes , we may argue about scientific advancement over years gone by , aye, that's true in the aspect of health and well being we're better off than our ancestors in medieval times but consider modern society from the view of a priest of the middle ages , he may say that our godless society and our blind devotion to money and wealth in these times is terrible and to him, atleast , people were better off in the middle ages . We have to remember that health and wealth are not the only determiners for judging to quality of life of an individual
I am NOW 67 and I is so fick and stupid were was education education education for my generation. I must I must improve my wealth. TOO LATE FOR ME we shell see .wish me luck
The collective"we" is not all inclusive but applies to the majority on the planet. Most of us are better off as we have never had so much control of our circumstances. No one has the authority to populate Australia. Also, we have a much greater understanding of the less fortunate or different. Just being understood is better than not being acknowledged. My grandma worried about what was in store for us. She had no clue of how she took all her hardship for granted.
This IQ2 debate was a debacle and really does not address some of the true issues facing the vast majority of society today. I wonder how these people would have reacted if they held this debate in some of the poorer parts of London. Both sides of politics has failed us.
01:12:10 - notice how it is always the rich who claim that everyone else is better off. I see it as a cynical ploy to keep everyone else below them. Yet for some reason they can never earn enough, can't they see the irony in them never having enough when they claim that everyone else has enough? As for Rachel Johnson claiming that coffee machines have materially made our lives better it just shows how out of touch she is with the average English person who would happily give up coffee machines for an affordable mortgage.
The coffee machines she is referring to, I assume, are the type where you insert a little plastic container that holds just the right amount of coffee for 1 cup. These are incredibly wasteful and cause more waste in the environment from the discarded used-up containers. All this because people are assumed to be incapable of using a spoon to move the coffee from their coffee tin in to their coffee machine. I call my coffee machine a saucepan because that is what it is and it makes perfectly acceptable coffee. I also agree with the first half of your comment. People judge others by their own standards. I live in a free-hold house so naturally I assume that everyone else does as well. lol
So big pharma would of solved depression? Big Phama has been a HUGE FAILURE on depression, and a Huge Success on profitability on useless depression meds
The imagery of a double-posted smiley emoticon captures all too well exactly the shallow hubris of positivism as defended here for the motion. That being said, I side for the motion because I think that the objective evidences for quality of life and well being are simply too strong. Several times throughout the debate I imagined our primal ancestors surviving among a small tribe on the planes of Africa some 200,000 years ago. Its near impossible to imagine what the raw state of this primal being would be like, but its how I tend to frame for prospective when contextualizing the absurdities of our modern existences. Will's point on walking really demonstrated the desire to grab calm and reflective fresh air for those who see our society as a cage with too many rats.
Not having read a British tabloid for 30 years I had no idea she was Boris`sister. I`m grateful she brought it up though as it saved me listening to ten minutes of privileged nonsense. Thanks for the heads up Boris` sister! Sorry, I`ve already forgotten your name.
I agree with Rod, we should double the minimum wage, actually, lets make it £100/hour, that way we will all be happy, I mean, its not like companies would hire fewer staff, leave the country, automate those roles....... Or just put their prices up and therefore the people earning double the minimum wage would then complain they couldn't afford to eat.
Double the minimum wage? This would force most of the workforce out of the opportunity for a job. If the company had to pay £100 for one position they would not be able to afford jobs for anyone else. Then you get rising unemployment, a strained welfare state and consumer prices rising too. In other words - a catastrophe. It's a bit of an economic fairyland you describe above.
+schumiisking English skills? You might think about using a capital letter at the beginning of your sentences. You might think about practising what you preach. You seem like a lovely person. Fancy a coffee sometime?
Well at least the audience were intelligent enough to react against the rubbish spewed forth by the likes of Johnson and Norman. Is it just me, or did Rachel Johnson undermine her own argument by talking about Matt Ridley, a speculative selfish individual, as an example of 'never having it so good' and did she even mention fracking in a somewhat positive light? Not surprising they lost votes, as no one likes to be lectured too by the over privileged. Say what you want about Will self, at least he is genuinely funny, isn't unctuously all over you and makes good points. As far as depression in a consumerist society goes, I don't agree with him on most things, but I think Marx was right on the money with the concept of 'alienation'. As we live further away from the making and value of the objects we consume the perceived value of them becomes skewed and those that possess less can only judge themselves inferior against those that have more in a society where consumption equates to happiness. Also, as the rich become entirely divorced form the immediate dependence on their surroundings and neighbours through virtue of their money in an increasingly globalised and image obsessed world, most people can only be the outsiders looking in and can only judge themselves wanting in comparison.
we take all the wonders we can avail ourselves of in the west for granted,if our electricity went down for a few days,we d realise just how lucky we are,that being said,i find most people i come across are not as happy as people were, in the not too distant past,i personally have been taken off benefits,and i have many chronic health issues,and now find myself scrabbling around for work that isn't easy to find nowadays,while they let big corporations off billions in taxes,and swamp our country with immigrants who are nearly all on benefits,it makes no sense
Material wealth is not everything. Ruling 1/4 of the globe gives you respect and honor. People also dressed well. Victorian England is when you'd want to live.
Jesse Norman? I try to avoid listening to what Tory politicians have to say because they all seem to remind me in some way or other of Boris Johnson but I thought I'd give this guy a shot, and guess what, Boris without the blonde wig.
I agree with Rod, we should double the minimum wage, actually, lets make it £100/hour, that way we will all be happy, I mean, its not like companies would hire fewer staff, leave the country, automate those roles....... Or just put their prices up and therefore the people earning double the minimum wage would then complain they couldn't afford to eat.
Actually they wouldn't, the relationship between the cost of labour and the employment rate are non-linear as an increase in wage tends to drive spending (a primary factor of growth) and thus the drop off in employment is not as large as to negate any benefit. This is economics 101 kid.
*We've never had it so good.* _In so many ways and aspects this is *true*._ I'm thankful for the groundbreaking advances in technology & medicine that we can enjoy and make proper use of. I would even claim that we (at least in Europe) have made great advances in our cultural and ethical (ie. spiritual?) development. And even if we believe that we are facing some sort of dilemma of the soul, then we should really push forward a more optimistic view of our situation. I cannot agree with Will Self's position and posture, here, although I understand his point of view. It's not helpful and it isn't even reasonable or realistic to take the position of being victimized and cheated by society, culture and politics. This is a rather paralyzing, pessimistic view and we don't need that. I wish we would have heard better speeches for the notion... Yes. We've never had it so good. But: It's not good enough! (That addendum perhaps would have changed a lot.) BECAUSE we are facing dramatic challenges in the not so far future, we have to cherish and make proper use of the undeniably great social, economic, technological , medicinal & scientific advantages that we inherited and established for ourselves.
The majority on Earth, like a billion Chinese as opposed to 2 m. HKeese, have never had it so good and it will get even better as wars can't be controlled by the powerful - it can easily spiral out of control.
Lively debate. Will Self did look and sound lugubrious throughout, except for some breezy remarks towards the peroration of the debate. His pat, almost a squeeze, on Rod's shoulder instantly dissolved the miasma of despondency. Jonathan makes a masterly anchor.
I laughed very hard many times watching and listening to this 'debate', I often thought it clear why I had to laugh but other times I had a laugh that wasn't clear, though laughed nonetheless. Care not if I am left or right, rich or poor, agnostic or atheist, I am too inept to give any on this panel a decent rebuff unless deep in my cups!
I have to say the side that disagree are unbeleivably emotional and impolite and incapable of being objective. The other side are simply saying things are better 'today' than 'yesterday', which unfortunatley is just pointing out the obvious but, as usual both sides are right. The question is how to we look to the good and say "yes please more and more of that" so we can articulate exactly what is bad and say "No thank you less and less of that please". Surley if we can't meet this standard, as a bare minimum, then we are all guilty of refusing to change ourselves and the lives of those around us, pro-activley.
And while I loved Will as I always do, I was actually impressed by Rod Liddle's more down to Earth contribution (which Self himself praised). I've not liked or agreed with everything he's said in the past but I thought he gave a really well-thought out and spirited speech here.
Whenever I listen to Will Self, I'm struck by 2 things. One, how deeply immersed he is in his own navel; sadly, this is what 'academic discourse' sounds like these days. And two, how even his jokes and smiles are tinged with a quite genuine despair. I do not think it likely that any man whose final word on life is a cynical smirk has very much to teach us.
I agree with the motion, "no" we have not had it so good, but the girl at 1:15 seems like a classic, lefty woke snowflake who doesn't really know what she is taking about
I have friends who work for an electronics company. For every one of them, their wages today are only two-thirds to 60% of what they were ten years ago. They continue to work for the same company because there are few jobs to be had. They are afraid to leave and try elsewhere, because most jobs here are restricted hours/part-time and usually minimum wage. No-one, married and both earning, has a hope of buying a house, and yet they are paying rents that would easily be the equal of a mortgage payment on a small starter home ten years ago. And here comes some tory to tell them they've never had it so good. I'd cheerfully reserve a lamp-post for the idiot.
Will Self is the genius!!
"Rachel starved herself for charity"
We've never had it so good because most of us have a fresh coffee maker. *Except everyone who can't have one.* Unbelievable. Does she realise she's becoming a parody of her own arguments?
PurushaDesa Sadly, no she doesn't and she never will.
I'm not rich by any means but I'm sure I have a better,healthier,more varied and self-fulfilled life than a 19th century millionaire
Will Self + Rod Liddle = superb tag-team.
***** So you have no thoughts on this video?
***** So you just go to random videos to insult the commentators? How pathetic. How tragic.
Johnson is far too sporadic and spends far too much time hoping around _non sequitur_ examples. She even managed to quote examples that when entirely against her point.
LOL, "There are so many food banks! Isn't the generosity wonderful!"
@@MatthewMcVeagh tc gute bin h
@@markuskhan3492 ?
@@MatthewMcVeagh "Red Nose Day, Red Buttocks Day, Red Genitals Day..."
'Do you put on a prosaic suit'. Good comeback from Self.
'Breathe, walk, think, meditate.' That was a beautiful moment.
Within the first seconds Jesse Norman pisses me off. The reference to schooling unnecessary? I don't think so -- the over saturation of old etonians is an embarrassing display of the class and wealth divide in the uk.
Thanks for holding the line, Will.
Those tories just make me want to smash my computer up.
must be nice to not only be wealthy enough to be having it so good but to be able to lecture the rest of us that it's the case for us all... no it frickin aint!
Obviously things are better and worse at the same time
GCSE English students will really benefit from watching these IQ Squared debates! Good luck with your speaking and listening!
The question is, what is the motivation of people who remind us that despite our problems today, "we've never had it so good". On the one hand, certainly all of us know this is true in itself, so saying it would seem irrelevant. On the other hand, are they saying it as an excuse to curb progress. Certainly we have groups with vested interest in the status quo, also a totally uncontroversial fact.
"All of us know this is true in itself" All? Are you deluded? Did you even watch the debate?
@@johannesdesilentio1536 Name one time in recent history and one time in distant history where a randomly selected person in the world would be better off economically or comfort/safety wise than they are today?
I think the question is do all these goods, services, comforts that are more abundantly available to all of us actually make us feel like we have it "good," and that is what was largely argued by the victorious opponents here.
No doubt your average person has a better, more reliable car, with more features in the UK than they did a generation ago. They also have access to world class education, free lectures from Yale and other universities... However, they are also living in a state of increased anxiety due to constant bombardment of negativity from media, news and social media. If they aren't paying attention to that, then often it's a state of anxiety about their social media posts, who likes it, etc. What is the solution?
Either Norman is deliberately doing an impersonation of Boris Johnson, or these Etonian hooray henry clones are manufactured in a factory somewhere outside London.
You should never settle, things can always get better.
Totally agree with Will Self, how can we say that we've never had it so good when we can never truly understand or know the feelings of the person most closest to us? I'm sure if you ask a homeless person the question in contrast to an upper class citizen the question you'd get different answers. The question is completely relative to the individual being asked and is why its such a pointless question. Love these debates though
Go ask the King how good he had it 2 centuries ago when he was shitting into a wooden bucket.
Will Self will never understand that Society is not equal ?
@@susannamarker2582 I think he understands.
Funny and eery to watch this now... Sort of like my ancestors back in 1919 Soviet Russia sitting around a crudely made metal stove, burning their furniture in it, and reading The Apollo (arts and literature) magazine from 1913...
Never having it so good should mean that if you are in full employment you should be financially o.k. . Well to put it simply millions of people are in full employment and struggling. 40 yrs of wage stagnation opposed to a huge increase in wealth by the 1% . That is a cheque mate to any idea of ' we've never had it so good'
When in recent history and distant history did we have it better in terms of material goods, comforts and services and access to information?
I know I drive a better car, with a better cell phone and live in a better house than my parents did at my age. Especially since cell phones didn't exist. I also have air conditioning which is something that they didn't always have
How can they find being poor and having mental illness so amusing. Makes me sick.
At least one person in this world cares about the poor and mentally ill.
We've never had so much pressure and so many opportunities offshored or given to foreigners... I've seen real wages stagnate while house prices rise exponentially. Food prices rising, bills too... As a poor person I've got poorer in real terms while you rich-heads got richer off my hard work. Electronics may be cheaper but that's a landfill of poison for the brain-warped, mobile phone addicted kids smashed in the head by social media and communication overload.
Will Self killed it...
No he didn't. He drones on like a priest at a funeral.
What!? Why isn't Peter Hitchens on the panel!? The deteriorationist extraordinaire!
his doom and gloom is insufferable
@@corpgov The perfect pick-me-up. lol
The vast majority of people today, even those in lower socioeconomic classes, have a better life than kings ever had. Even kings didn't have access to an almost endless supply of clean drinking water and people have regular access to food kings only ate on special occasion. There's also a good chance you'll never meet someone who lost a child or wife/mother giving birth. If you get sick your doctors won't "bleed" you in order to balance the body's humors. You will also live much longer than most kings and travel further and more safely than any king could dream of. The level of sanitation you experience is far superior to what kings had and your house isn't always filled with smoke. You have access to more information, education, clothing and leisure activities than most king ever had.
Rachel Johnson appeared seriously out of her depth. I thought Boris was a waffler, but she's far worse. I bet her debating partner was wincing all the way though her airy-fairy ramble. Why the hell did he accept to team up with such a numpty.
Can't say I felt sorry for Jesse Norman but I was certainly imagining him grinding his teeth.
What planet is this woman on?
holenewman - privileged white bitch queen - that's a real planet now...
HAHAHA I LOVE Will Self!
pretentious twats. Someone has to pay.
superior to martin amis ?? why?...how?
" I love will self ".................. You must set your bar very low then!! Will Self looks and sounds like the living DEAD. Will self would be more happy if we were ALL SKINT just so long as we were all the same.
City Zen............... Ha ! The same could be said of Adolf Hitler, Stalin and any other crackpot you care to mention !!
Fascinating in 2020 to watch these tories from 2014 tell us how things are moving in the right direction.
Rod Liddle has hit the nail. Will amuses ironically
To those who did not understand Will Self's argument .
When he used to word 'We' In a totalitarian sense , he was referring to the growing trend of society to view all members of society as a collective group of consumer demand and determining how well off a community is by looking at how much money goes in and out of the system .
He also implys that 'Never' and 'Good' are subjective terms . Yes , we may argue about scientific advancement over years gone by , aye, that's true in the aspect of health and well being we're better off than our ancestors in medieval times but consider modern society from the view of a priest of the middle ages , he may say that our godless society and our blind devotion to money and wealth in these times is terrible and to him, atleast , people were better off in the middle ages . We have to remember that health and wealth are not the only determiners for judging to quality of life of an individual
I am NOW 67 and I is so fick and stupid were was education education education for my generation. I must I must improve my wealth. TOO LATE FOR ME we shell see .wish me luck
"Never" is also an absolutist term, something which I dislike as it is inflexible and therefore unrealistic.
The collective"we" is not all inclusive but applies to the majority on the planet. Most of us are better off as we have never had so much control of our circumstances. No one has the authority to populate Australia. Also, we have a much greater understanding of the less fortunate or different. Just being understood is better than not being acknowledged. My grandma worried about what was in store for us. She had no clue of how she took all her hardship for granted.
This IQ2 debate was a debacle and really does not address some of the true issues facing the vast majority of society today. I wonder how these people would have reacted if they held this debate in some of the poorer parts of London. Both sides of politics has failed us.
Will Self says "I didn't go to public school" but has before admitted to attending University College School, so what is going on here?
What's going on is you don't understand what a public school is....
01:12:10 - notice how it is always the rich who claim that everyone else is better off. I see it as a cynical ploy to keep everyone else below them. Yet for some reason they can never earn enough, can't they see the irony in them never having enough when they claim that everyone else has enough?
As for Rachel Johnson claiming that coffee machines have materially made our lives better it just shows how out of touch she is with the average English person who would happily give up coffee machines for an affordable mortgage.
The coffee machines she is referring to, I assume, are the type where you insert a little plastic container that holds just the right amount of coffee for 1 cup. These are incredibly wasteful and cause more waste in the environment from the discarded used-up containers. All this because people are assumed to be incapable of using a spoon to move the coffee from their coffee tin in to their coffee machine. I call my coffee machine a saucepan because that is what it is and it makes perfectly acceptable coffee.
I also agree with the first half of your comment. People judge others by their own standards. I live in a free-hold house so naturally I assume that everyone else does as well. lol
23 mins, died of laughter. Very well done by both sides thus far
Unfortunately, Johnson has made it quite clear why she is often referred to simply as *the sister of X*.
Who's we?
People probably WERE depressed in the past they just didn't get it recognised and spent their lives miserable.
So big pharma would of solved depression? Big Phama has been a HUGE FAILURE on depression, and a Huge Success on profitability on useless depression meds
Astoundingly thought provoking crowd. Good use of good education :-) intangibles count
As a host Jonathon is good..
Rod Liddle is bang on
very funny. A revolutionary definition for personal attitudes.
Jesse Norman and Will Self were pure #banter
"Jessie Norman would be singing..."
Pearls before swine...
Lost it all in 2008. Never had it so bad
The people laughing at Will Self's remarks are so uneasy in their laughter as they go on. He must have had a few drinks that day.
The imagery of a double-posted smiley emoticon captures all too well exactly the shallow hubris of positivism as defended here for the motion. That being said, I side for the motion because I think that the objective evidences for quality of life and well being are simply too strong.
Several times throughout the debate I imagined our primal ancestors surviving among a small tribe on the planes of Africa some 200,000 years ago. Its near impossible to imagine what the raw state of this primal being would be like, but its how I tend to frame for prospective when contextualizing the absurdities of our modern existences. Will's point on walking really demonstrated the desire to grab calm and reflective fresh air for those who see our society as a cage with too many rats.
It would be nice if they could debate instead of trying out their new standup routines.
you'd have to go to the Oxford Student Union for that
The first speaker was following the principle of "If a little is good, more must be better".
Not having read a British tabloid for 30 years I had no idea she was Boris`sister. I`m grateful she brought it up though as it saved me listening to ten minutes of privileged nonsense.
Thanks for the heads up Boris` sister! Sorry, I`ve already forgotten your name.
A splendid result
Will thank you very much. I've given up on life and am about to jump.
last guy nailed it
Rod: you're so right about so much, but my working class mother and father would be horrified to see you chewing while you're talking.
It's nicotine gum.
will self you absolute don
Spot on Rod.
I agree with Rod, we should double the minimum wage, actually, lets make it £100/hour, that way we will all be happy, I mean, its not like companies would hire fewer staff, leave the country, automate those roles....... Or just put their prices up and therefore the people earning double the minimum wage would then complain they couldn't afford to eat.
Double the minimum wage? This would force most of the workforce out of the opportunity for a job. If the company had to pay £100 for one position they would not be able to afford jobs for anyone else. Then you get rising unemployment, a strained welfare state and consumer prices rising too. In other words - a catastrophe. It's a bit of an economic fairyland you describe above.
+schumiisking English skills? You might think about using a capital letter at the beginning of your sentences. You might think about practising what you preach. You seem like a lovely person. Fancy a coffee sometime?
+Jake Stutz He is a lovely person Jake isn't he?
Wilf self is such an arsehole
Now thats decided....what do we do to fix the problem?
Also where do we lock up these damn "yay sayers" lol
Professor Snape crushed it
Self Will is the problem.
WHY? A pointless debate when their are NO actual unemployed or homeless people on the panel, or single mothers or indeed any "poor" people?
A Tory and a columnist for the Fail on Sunday. Charming pair.
Manufacturing will reshore and is coming back, but will increasingly be carried out by robotics unless on micro scale perhaps.
Well at least the audience were intelligent enough to react against the rubbish spewed forth by the likes of Johnson and Norman. Is it just me, or did Rachel Johnson undermine her own argument by talking about Matt Ridley, a speculative selfish individual, as an example of 'never having it so good' and did she even mention fracking in a somewhat positive light? Not surprising they lost votes, as no one likes to be lectured too by the over privileged. Say what you want about Will self, at least he is genuinely funny, isn't unctuously all over you and makes good points. As far as depression in a consumerist society goes, I don't agree with him on most things, but I think Marx was right on the money with the concept of 'alienation'. As we live further away from the making and value of the objects we consume the perceived value of them becomes skewed and those that possess less can only judge themselves inferior against those that have more in a society where consumption equates to happiness. Also, as the rich become entirely divorced form the immediate dependence on their surroundings and neighbours through virtue of their money in an increasingly globalised and image obsessed world, most people can only be the outsiders looking in and can only judge themselves wanting in comparison.
we take all the wonders we can avail ourselves of in the west for granted,if our electricity went down for a few days,we d realise just how lucky we are,that being said,i find most people i come across are not as happy as people were, in the not too distant past,i personally have been taken off benefits,and i have many chronic health issues,and now find myself scrabbling around for work that isn't easy to find nowadays,while they let big corporations off billions in taxes,and swamp our country with immigrants who are nearly all on benefits,it makes no sense
All the people who usually champion Rod don't seem to have followed him to this comment section.
i think will self is taken for granted, the guys an utter gift.
I love intellectual women...why didn't they get one for this debate?
Thank you for that wonderful piece of sexism.
Adds to the debate as to whether we've never had it so good, in favour of against the motion.
Material wealth is not everything. Ruling 1/4 of the globe gives you respect and honor. People also dressed well. Victorian England is when you'd want to live.
Who? Me?
Who gives a public lecture whilst chewing gum into the mic? Rod Liddle thats who. He was on the right side of the argument at least.
Apparently it was Nicotine Gum so I suppose it was better than actually smoking instead.
if you've NEVER had it how can you have it now?
"so much good to be have"
No, your schooling's kinda relevant mate. Now who else went there I wonder?
Jesse Norman? I try to avoid listening to what Tory politicians have to say because they all seem to remind me in some way or other of Boris Johnson but I thought I'd give this guy a shot, and guess what, Boris without the blonde wig.
Crikey, wish the chair was'nt slobbering all over Will Self...
Is this becoming the Will Self Show ?
Sooo lets hold this on in Chelsea guys, you recon it'l have an effect on the crowd response and question type?
The change in the vote between the first and the last poll indicated that even the "well to do" were influenced by this debate.
If Peter Cook and Pete Townshend could have procreated back in the early 60s,would they have given birth to Will Self ?
Of course-the key word being 'if'.
Scarey thing is the fors seem to actually believe their own shit.
I thought the title for the video was a Tory slogan..?
Oh the good ol’ days
Will Self is the misery on society.
Jonathan Freedland . something not quite right . is he depressed ?
Will Self doesn't do happy - that's why I like him.
this was entertaining but it seems like 4 people shouting up their own bum holes.
Why isn't Steven Pinker on this panel?
Heber Diaz Perhaps he wasn't asked.
Snobbery
no
I agree with Rod, we should double the minimum wage, actually, lets make it £100/hour, that way we will all be happy, I mean, its not like companies would hire fewer staff, leave the country, automate those roles....... Or just put their prices up and therefore the people earning double the minimum wage would then complain they couldn't afford to eat.
Actually they wouldn't, the relationship between the cost of labour and the employment rate are non-linear as an increase in wage tends to drive spending (a primary factor of growth) and thus the drop off in employment is not as large as to negate any benefit. This is economics 101 kid.
AmateurDeadbeat
I agree, if you pay your staff £100 an hour your costs go down, makes sense.
Atlas Shrugged
Trust a Randroid to not grasp that economics is nuanced and can't be concluded with one big broad stroke of rhetoric.
AmateurDeadbeat
All you have is Ad Homs and zero economic understanding, run along, you're boring.
Atlas Shrugged
Nah this is pretty basic economics, a highschooler could grasp it. (although I understand if that is above your level of thought)
*We've never had it so good.* _In so many ways and aspects this is *true*._
I'm thankful for the groundbreaking advances in technology & medicine that we can enjoy and make proper use of.
I would even claim that we (at least in Europe) have made great advances in our cultural and ethical (ie. spiritual?) development.
And even if we believe that we are facing some sort of dilemma of the soul, then we should really push forward a more optimistic view of our situation. I cannot agree with Will Self's position and posture, here, although I understand his point of view.
It's not helpful and it isn't even reasonable or realistic to take the position of being victimized and cheated by society, culture and politics. This is a rather paralyzing, pessimistic view and we don't need that.
I wish we would have heard better speeches for the notion...
Yes. We've never had it so good. But: It's not good enough!
(That addendum perhaps would have changed a lot.)
BECAUSE we are facing dramatic challenges in the not so far future, we have to cherish and make proper use of the undeniably great social, economic, technological , medicinal & scientific advantages that we inherited and established for ourselves.
The majority on Earth, like a billion Chinese as opposed to 2 m. HKeese, have never had it so good and it will get even better as wars can't be controlled by the powerful - it can easily spiral out of control.
Will Self droll as always. Is the Tory Boy one of his literary creations?
Will Self talks a lot but never really says anything.
I find it the other way around.
@@minkleymcmoo5248 he uses one long esoteric word too many for my liking
Lively debate. Will Self did look and sound lugubrious throughout, except for some breezy remarks towards the peroration of the debate. His pat, almost a squeeze, on Rod's shoulder instantly dissolved the miasma of despondency. Jonathan makes a masterly anchor.
Rachel Johnson is the most hottest grandma ive seen
She's a grandma? Hubba Hubba !!
I laughed very hard many times watching and listening to this 'debate', I often thought it clear why I had to laugh but other times I had a laugh that wasn't clear, though laughed nonetheless. Care not if I am left or right, rich or poor, agnostic or atheist, I am too inept to give any on this panel a decent rebuff unless deep in my cups!
Why does the Johnson family insist upon obscuring their faces with their ludicrous hair dos? :)
I have to say the side that disagree are unbeleivably emotional and impolite and incapable of being objective. The other side are simply saying things are better 'today' than 'yesterday', which unfortunatley is just pointing out the obvious but, as usual both sides are right. The question is how to we look to the good and say "yes please more and more of that" so we can articulate exactly what is bad and say "No thank you less and less of that please". Surley if we can't meet this standard, as a bare minimum, then we are all guilty of refusing to change ourselves and the lives of those around us, pro-activley.
After 2 minutes of the Johnson woman I knew who was going to win. What an embarrassment.
And while I loved Will as I always do, I was actually impressed by Rod Liddle's more down to Earth contribution (which Self himself praised). I've not liked or agreed with everything he's said in the past but I thought he gave a really well-thought out and spirited speech here.
As soon as I saw which side Will Self was debating for I knew which side would win.
that eton public speaking style is awful
Whenever I listen to Will Self, I'm struck by 2 things. One, how deeply immersed he is in his own navel; sadly, this is what 'academic discourse' sounds like these days. And two, how even his jokes and smiles are tinged with a quite genuine despair. I do not think it likely that any man whose final word on life is a cynical smirk has very much to teach us.
John Deighan interesting character - don't read his books though !
honest pride is better than fake humbleness
I agree with the motion, "no" we have not had it so good, but the girl at 1:15 seems like a classic, lefty woke snowflake who doesn't really know what she is taking about
Will Self is such a bore. He could (should ?) audition as Lurch in the Addams Family.