TOO SLOW AND WIMPY FOR GRAVEL BIKES?

[@marktrulock3323]

I'm showing my age but I remember a Sheldon Brown article in Bicycling magazine 30 years ago. Mr. Brown was doing a Grand Fondo somewhere and a roadie was amazed that Sheldon could keep up with him with a "slow" non-standard crankset. This was back in the day when all the cool guys rode 53/39 and 11/23.
My cycling life improved hugely 15 years ago when I started to follow Grant Petersen's (Rivendell CEO) advice. By using wider tires, raised handlebars, lower pressure, and lower gearing I had so much more fun. I did not hurt when I got off the bike so I took up cycling again.
Cheers

[@adriankrucker2159]

Former road racer here (2 decades ago...), turning gravel biker recently: 46/30 just makes sense on a gravel bike. And probably many newbies out there would actually have to ride something lower. Sure, those into gravel racing need something bigger (always depending on the terrain / weather conditions) - could even imagine a rider on a high level might even use 50/34. However, we have to be honest enough and face it that not all are gifted with those super power legs and high engine hearts and lungs, so riding 46/30 (or even less) is nothing to be ashamed of. Furthermore, using those ratios will lead to more fun and over time to better fitness (then probably one can think about "upgrading" to bigger chain rings). Thanks for your thoughts about the topic of gear ratios (and other contributions).

[@donaldvinsonhaler9698]

how about a 11 40 rear and a 46 30 front I am 81 years old and I need a little more then 30 36 I still ride 100 miles a week

[@61tree_VR_Gliding]

Terrific, keep it up!

[@hectorkidds9840]

This is what I use for long/multi day rides. Ultegra mechs, GRX chainset and an XT 11 40 cassette, works well, and that bottom gear is a joy on the steep hills.

[@anthonyross9351]

Don't argue with Roadies. It's a lot like playing chess with pigeons.
The pigeons just knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board, and then high five each other "ftw"

[@thatguyonabicycleofconsurv3908]

Lmao

[@ABFPV584]

Hahahah

[@gilerd77]

I try to greet them. They just grunt...at best. Kinda like a pigeon response, deeper tone.

[@christopherharmon9336]

Perfect!

[@JevaughnMarshall]

I’m closer to a typical roadie and I find this comment absolutely hilarious LOLOL. There’s certainly an elitist without reason to some roadies... but we aren’t all like that. I ride 50/34 because in very very few instances on a pace line. In all things setup your bike based on what you’re gonna be doing and what kind of feel you enjoy when riding. There really is no wrong answer. I do agree though that its much worse to run out of low gears than to run out of top gears.

[@gardnercalibuso]

I have 46/30 on my gravel bike, 46/30 on one of my road bike and 48/31 on my excellent road bike... I had 50/34 and 52/39 previously, I'm never going back to standard and compact, not functional for me. I find 48/31 to be the best for me

[@JeanFrancoisDesrosiers]

What brand/model has 48/31?

[@Roadsuntravel]

@@JeanFrancoisDesrosiers shimano grx

[@privateerinvestor2773]

Wow!! Your content is just getting better and better. A channel focused on gravel and touring is much needed and your doing a great job filling that need. I value your reviews and have bought several bags you reviewed. Your reviews are accurate and of value.

[@WonderAnt10]

Honestly, I'm on that 1X train. 42t up front with the standard 11-42t on Rival 1. Does everything I need it to do. But if a double works for you, all the power to ya.

[@geraldrossouw4425]

@@butt_cheeks269 I had the same setup and recently put on a 46, it's not that big of a change, slightly longer legs on the downhills but I still don't use any of the 3 lowest gears. The chainline is improved though since I now spend more time around the middle of the cassette instead of being endlessly on the 10, 12 and 14.

[@davidrowe8747]

Great video! When I purchased a gravel bike about 3 years ago, I used Sheldon's page to look at gearing in the same way as you did - "If I pedal at 90 rpm, how fast will I be going?" The standard gearing on the bike I was looking at gave me a top speed of over 30mph, which I NEVER DO on the flat! Going downhill? Meh. I'm happy to coast. So I switched from a 50/34 to a 46/32 and it was perfect for what I needed.
When I used to ride with the chain gang back in the day, sure, I never stopped pedalling, and so going downhill, your legs would keep moving until you topped at over 40mph.
Recently, I converted my old (1981) Gary Fisher to a 1x11 utility (grocery, shopping , whatever) bike. My priority was not running out of gears when going up the steep hill to my house, fully loaded with my fortnightly grocery shopping. I DON'T CARE if I can't pedal fast when going downhill on this bike. 15 mph top speed is fine.
It's hard to figure the mentality of bicycle manufacturers - if you want to increase the number of people using a bike, why gear your bikes up for racing? Duh.

[@troyrutherford3812]

Agree with this and I'm a roadie. My 2 most recent builds have 46/36 with 11-36 cassettes one is a gravel race bike and the other is an all weather commuter. I dont understand the never ending thought that bigger gears mean you will go faster, you will only go as fast as your legs let you. And more often than not gearing down and spinning is the right choice.

[@troyrutherford3812]

I'd add the narrow range front is great riding/racing gravel as the short front jump is great for short punchy terrain changes without having to double or triple shift in the back.

[@ROBinJVILLE]

Exact same gearing I use.

[@SzalonyKucharz]

This. Too many cyclists simply do not maintain proper high pedaling cadence that translates to high speed and acceleration to a much greater degree than large cranksets. Those advocating 50-34 in the front of a gravel or a touring bike should first demonstrate that they're able to spin out at the highest gear going downhill fully loaded and they can do that safely. It's surprising that a tiny fraction of the human population, which is pro-racing elites can dictate the shape of the entire cycling industry.
46-36 or even lower should be the standard 2x crankset in the gravel/adventure category, with the largest cog in the cassette allowing for gear ratio less than 1:1 for those really steep and loaded climbs at the end of a very long day in the saddle.

[@andypaul999]

Szalony Kucharz Spinning is not for everybody, i had a 34/11 on my mtb and although i was hitting some decent speed i was over my natural cadence so had nothing in reserve, ive since upgraded to a 36 and it feels better. I guess what im saying is the 50 tooth sprocket on my gravel bike with the 11-36 cassette actually works quite well for me

[@mazerickd]

I had a 50/32 and thought the 50 was way too much for the crappy hills we have but at the same time dropping to the 32 felt like I was doing a lot of unnecessary strokes. I also switched to a 300g lighter crankset. Curious to feel the difference after it gets installed.

[@mjcrites1738]

I'm currently rocking a 44/34 11/36 set up on my Surly Straggler. With the 50 tooth chainring on it I was using the 34 tooth chain ring most of the time. Switching to a 44 tooth chainring* means that I use the bigger ring on my bike way more often. I have't actually tracked it, but I'm betting that since I now use my bigger ring a lot more my average speed has gone up a couple MPH.
*When I checked with my LBS about lowering my bike's gearing they suggested that I just have them take the 50 tooth ring off and put a 44 tooth ring and a new, shorter chain on the bike. They did the work for me and the bike rides/functions just fine.

[@billmaidment5623]

Well done. I spent 30 years trying to be a racer, weekend warrior. You’re channel is very refreshing. Thanks for showing me that lower gears and off the rack Target clothing can bee cool and refreshing.

[@haappycat]

I started riding in 1969 on a Schwinn 10 speed 2x5 with a 52-42 crankset with a 14-26 freewheel. I am ending up with a 39-26 mountain crank set and a 11-42 cassette. It is like my 26 low freewheel gear ended up on my crankset and my high 42 chainring ended up on my cassette.

[@thebingham2124]

I run a 38-28 slx crank on my warbird. Never been dropped on the flats or descents. 11-36 cassette. Unless your pro your not holding 30mph on the flats. 30mph top pedaling speed it plenty for a gravel bike. The fact they don't already spec gravel bikes with MTB cranks is mind boggling. Can get greater tire clearance with a wider BB shell and pretty much any gearing you want for much cheaper than sub compace road stuff.

[@larrywhite8590]

Not a big fan of wider Q factor. I hope this does not become a trend.

[@denvergriffin5555]

Bingo. The number of people who can spin out a 46-11 on gravel is tiny. The number of people who have the bike handling skills to have any business spinning out 46-11 on a gravel downhill is even smaller. Ten years from now, 50/34 and bigger cranksets on gravel bikes will have gone where 53/39 has gone on road bikes.

[@klg200]

@@larrywhite8590 My knees agree with you

[@turboseize]

@@denvergriffin5555 It is not about spinning out 46-11 on gravel, it is about spinning out 46-11 on tarmac. And this is totally doable. The beauty of a gravel bike is that it is roadworthy. You can cover vast distances almost as quick as on a road bike. If you optimised for the rough stuff, you would just take an XC mountain bike. The very idea of a gravel bike is that it is usable on ANY road, including good ones.
That said.... I, personally, would surely be better off with the lower gearing for the uphill stuff), unless I drop 20 to 30kg of bodyweight. As I have no intention to do so, I should be able to get all the downhill benefits of the big chainring from gravity (and a tuck) instead...

[@jamiew.7059]

Can’t agree more. My new Trek came with 50/34 and 11-34. I’m 62 and live in the mountains. That’s fine for me on my road bike. I went the road link/cassette route and put a cassette with a 42. Works great. Love your channel.

[@ShiftyJim]

Have you listened to the new Cycling Tips podcast, The Cycling Tippy Tech Awards? They hit on the topic of inadequate gearing for adventure bikes, and possible laziness from Sram and Shimano. Obviously you are on to something Russ!

[@dfermette]

Just went touring 3 weeks half asphalt / half gravel/dirt and my 2X9 setup was 22-36 and 11-36. I was quite loaded, but i never touched my 8th and 9th gears and still went over 40 km/h.
Just ditch big chainrings for anything else than races!

[@ethanfrankel5169]

I like your outlook! I turned 60 last month. I like to ride bikes but I am not fast. I put a 46/30 on my Litespeed T7 this summer and love it! I simply was not using my highest gear and felt like I wanted a lower gear. I have a 32 in the rear. For me it just makes sense. Now I am using more gears. Big hills still kill me but not as much. I want to put the same on my Salsa Vaya which sees almost all asphalt. It is an expensive swap though. Thank you for your opinions.

[@mjcrites1738]

Part of the reason I ditched my 50/34 was because of all those high gears I rarely used. It’s much better to have a whole bunch of gears in the speed range you actually ride in (12-20MPH in my case) than a bunch of high gears so you can go really fast 3 times a year.

[@charlied1675]

I'm also in the over 60 crowd and have given up on large gearing. I do a lot of riding in the mountains near Tokyo. Grades of 10-18% are common. So, switched my 50/34 with a 32 large cog on the rear to a 1x system (ditched the FD and FD shifter) with a 11-40 rear M8000 cassette and kept the 34 chainring in the front. Found out that the Shimano 105 rd-r7000 GS works with the 40t cog. I love this combination. I don't miss having fewer gear choices and I certainly don't miss the larger gears that are needed for high speeds.

[@rollinrat4850]

As an old road racer who knows how to pedal, now turned dirt roadie/trail geek, I prefer small gaps between cogs to better control my cadence. The extremes are dictated by my chainrings. I use 24/42 rings or 24/36/46 and any cassette from 12-27 for road to 11-36 for loaded touring. Usually I stay in the 42, 36 or 46, the 24 is for really steep climbs, when I'm trashed or hauling camping gear and beer for my slower buddies!
Through racing I learned how to suffer and push myself beyond my known limit, through long hours in the saddle, trail riding and touring I learned endurance.
These days, more time on the bike and a few extra pounds on my bike and body seem to keep me happy!

[@danwebb6766]

Anyone hating sub-compact cranks w/large cassettes has to have some brain damage if they're following this channel. Myself, I prefer mileage to time. Supple makes mileage easier. Easier mileage means a happier bike rider (I don't engage in cyclism). Don't fret, Russ; there are plenty of us that don't comment often but enjoy your channel immensely. #thesupplelife

[@gregsierra414]

46/30 lobby 😂😂 There's a t-shirt in that!

[@christopherharmon9336]

Over geared? YES! I would love to see something like mountain 42/28 cranks coupled with an 11-36 cassette on gravel bikes.

[@rollinrat4850]

I use 24/42 chainrings and 11-36 10 spd on my dirt tourer, using
oldish mtb parts, friction bar cons. I use Sugino or Sun Tour XC Pro cranks and TA chainrings. They shift fine if you know how to wrench......as well as shift!!
I don't need to ride fast downhill, that's when I rest from climbing with all the luggage.
I can easily spin up the high gear to 50mph on a steep enough descent if I wanted. Being kinda old I don't want to go much more than 40. I'm not a road racer any longer! I actually want to spend MORE time on the bike!

[@tjrioux3059]

Thank you so much for the important and relevant information! I've not seen this practical view presented before on UA-cam. The oversell and hype re gears is a blizzard of consumer confusion. AND thanks for Craig Lloyd's related post below.

[@vahenajarian7229]

Thanks for the great work. On a parallel topic, I switched to 14-28 cassette (road cycling) and could not be happier. I now have a true 11 speed bike because I make use of all 11 cogs. And the shifting is so smooth, you never feel you are missing an in between size cog. I wish the industry offerd more cassette options that start at 14 (e.g. 14-32).

[@jasc3954]

Totalmente de acuerdo. Viviendo en zona montañosa, el 50/34, a veces me venía largo. Fue un acierto probar con un 46/30. Un saludo.

[@ryanmarshall8030]

The first endurance style road bike that I purchased has a 48/32 front Chainring. I have found that Chainring to be excellent for all rides. I rode my last two rides of the year with 4,000 feet of elevation gain. And I was very happy to have a low gear of 32/32 🙏

[@nesutoneko]

Current allroad bike has 44/30 - and I honestly spend most of my time in the 30. All my rides are very hilly but I also choose to go slow and poke around... New bike being built up at the moment will have 42/26.

[@davidmithen9223]

Nice one, well explained and it doesn’t seem like much to ask. Would have been interesting to examine how much it effected the low end as well. Cheers.

[@joyousland]

This video is so ahead of its time, we are all going towards 46/30 in 2020. On road bike, with 10/36 cassette
An all rounder on much challenging terrain.

[@MrGoodaches]

I think initially it was simply that the drivertrain manufacturers didn't keep up with the explosion of larger wheeled bikes. The 27.5 and 29 tires are not only wider than the skinny road tires but they are substantially greater circumference at the tread and therefore all the gears in the drivertrain are in effect a higher ratio on an off road bike than on a road bike. It looks like the drivertrains offered on the newest higher end mountain bikes are rational for the intended purpose. Are the "gravel bikes" being sold with "off road" wheels and "road" gears instead of drivetrains from the mountain bike parts bin? When I'm loaded with camping gear and supplies for an off road bikepacking trip I don't need to pedal any faster than 20mph. If I'm going faster than 20 when loaded gravity isn't needing help my help for speed,,,the more important concern becomes effectiveness of brakes.

[@jfspurlin1]

Also I wish they made cassettes starting with 14 or 15T as the smallest sprockets. It's a waste having the 11-13.

[@josequilez5449]

Shimano 14 to 28

[@SnootchieBootchies27]

For me, running 1X with a tiny ring (28t), I think I'm going to really appreciate having an 11t cog. But I guess it all depends on your setup

[@coastdave]

I did a gravel race (bikepacking race, 1000km) last summer on my stock 48-36. The gearing was nowhere near low enough, and required walking up the steeper hills (which wasn't really slower than people who were riding, but does indicate that sometimes 3-5 mph is a realistic speed during a race. I was essentially never going 30 mph, even on the road stretches of the race

[@perkarlsson4915]

I built myself a touring bike. It has a 3x10 drivetrain and works like a charm, not to mention that I got not one but maybe two or even three granny gears on it. I love my choice in gear ratio going up hills, and the choice of 180 mm discs both front and rear going down.

[@laughingbeast4481]

I wonder , what gears do you use ? I also have 3x10 and am newbie.

[@mulletclub]

Switched to 46/30 - 11-32 a few years ago first with Sugino chainrings then an FSA SL-K Adventure and never looked back.
After I did some math(s) using Sheldon's website and found on by road compact 50/34 I was rarely (if ever - downhill maybe) using the 11 of my 11-32 cassette.
And it turn out 50 - 12 gives about the same gear inches as 46 - 11.
I do sometimes think a 46/32 subcompact with a 11-34 cassette might be a better choice - less jump when going between chainrings, but if drop or raise your rear derailleur prior to shifting up front......

[@jinngeechia9715]

Don't forget the crank length. The wonderful thing about the calculator is that it factors in the "gain". I just changed to a 50/34 rings with 160mm cranks, found out that the gain gives it gear inches to equal 53/39 rings with 170mm cranks. So don't forget the crank length. Sheldon is a genius! He makes you understand that your legs are also part of your gearing

[@mulletclub]

@@jinngeechia9715 Did that also, my bike (like most off the peg) originally came with 175mm cranks. I used the various methods of finding my ideal crank length for my leg length and they all worked out around 168 to 170mm. So when I bought my new cranks changed to a 170mm.

[@finarollerz]

Russ, you are good Man. Everyone has different needs, I still have a 39/53-11/28, I just sent my single speed to my son in NY 46/18 that I would take on group rides and sometimes be out front, my “gravel rig” has 1x12-42-10/50 and I can about as fast or climb almost anything ( unloaded). And a road 34/50-11/32, they are all just tools for different jobs, I’m grateful for so many options, I really think it’s a first world problem. I grew up on crappy English style 3 speeds that were always too big, and always stolen, I was always grateful just to have a bike 😀

[@jasondunlap9823]

We really appreciate your posts. We are people that really enjoy going slow, appreciating the ride for just the ride seeing the scenery and not being in a rush and enjoying our day. I know for me I work a very stressful job during the week and on the weekend I ride my bike to relax and just enjoy my life. keep the good videos coming out. many of us prefer smaller chain rings and that is okay

[@CRM08]

I love my 30/46 chainrings paired with a 11/40 cassette. I get a bit over 30mph on some down hills but still haven't spun out yet.

[@Motorsportsgeek]

I really like my 53/39 paired with my 11-34 cassette. On the road I have all the road benefits and top speed but then in trails, I can go fast with my 39 and with 39/34 I can climb anything really. I definitely do more road but I really enjoy the 39 on gravel since I like going faster and with a 2 by system, you really get the best of both worlds.

[@litespud]

My current biggest gear is a 50/12, which I use occasionally but enough to justify its existence. I’m upgrading to a new drivetrain with a 11-29 cassette. I suspect that I won’t use a 50/11 gear much, so I’m including a 48-32 “subcompact” crankset, which will enable me to use the 11 sprocket more and give me slightly lower low end. I’ll still be plenty fast in a group on the road with my 48-32

[@rsrs8632]

I have a go anywhere bike with 50mm (2 inch) tyres. It came with a 48tooth large chainring. After some testing realised I could not use this on the flats, while the lowest gear was not small enough.
Changed it to a 44 tooth, now I have 17,34 up to 113,70 gearinches. I am perfactly happy now I can climb up thos alpine mountains.

[@evan4168]

I have MTB "one-by" gearing on my gravel/adventure drop bar Surly Karate Monkey and love it. I originally increased the chain ring but when I changed to a flat bar MTB set up I put it back to the 32 chain ring and later went back to drop bar and kept it. For me, local flat lander gravel grinding, it's great.

[@evan4168]

FYI photos.app.goo.gl/pV4uPodTfDyEE3fs9

[@NumenorCycles]

One mechanic told me that front derailleur could make problems, if difference between chainrings is more than 16t.
On the other hand, i found this on bikeforums:
"48T, 49T and 50T x 26T doubles were quite common on French touring bikes prior to the 1970's. They used long cage Huret derailleurs, usually with a maximum 13-24T or 13-26T freewheels. The later literature say 36T to 53T but Frank Berto says different in "The Dancing Chain" "
Did you have any problems with shifting on "wide range" 2x cranks?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Lies. It’s only a problem if you’re trying to race.

[@NumenorCycles]

@@PathLessPedaledTV thanks! I was racing in high school.
Now, in mid 30' i care only for comfor on a bike. So, i'm experimenting with equipment, and want to convert my 3x (42-34-24) to 2x (42-24) . Even i ride most of my gravel rides on 34

[@TimCupery]

The only time having-big-enough-gears truly matters is maintaining contact in a fast paceline or on a descent in a race/group ride scenario.
For everyone else, spinning out on a descent doesn't cost you much time at all, whereas pedaling inefficiently, uncomfortably low RPMs on a climb is way less fun and notably slower.
I'm running a 42/28 (using an old triple with chainguard in place of outer ring). Paired with 11-32 cassette. The 42-11 top gear is equivalent to a 46-12, and since I'm not doing racey group rides, I haven't missed having a bigger gear.

[@forrsmit]

Russ! Missoula #supplelife rider here. I agree with having more options for a sub compact. Myself, I just invested in a FSA 46/30 crank for my Soma Wolverine gravel tourer.
However, I disagree that the supple life should pick a fight with the roadie world. Killing em with kindness, I say. There's lots of roadies out there and we need them as allies to advance the overall biking culture into the future.

[@thegoats3487]

With 10T small cog becoming more prevalent it makes it only easier to move to smaller chainrings for a win/win - Smaller chainrings for more ground clearance, shorter chain needed for desired gearing so lower weight. Not bad trade off at all. Gravel (even racing) should be using smaller chainrings than road. If you are using the same size for for gravel racing and road then you probably could use bigger chainrings on your road bike! :)

[@hogdog567]

My training road bike is 1 x with a 42 chainring and I can spin that to 32mph which is enough to keep up with the faster group (16-17mph average) on my club ride.

[@andypaul999]

What happens on the sprint finish?😀

[@hogdog567]

AndysMTBlife if it's uphill then no problem 😉

[@harrylook7810]

I'm a roadie who just bought my first gravel bike. It has a 46/30 up front and an 11-34 in back. I have ridden this in group road rides and I do not get dropped by people with 50/34 or 52/36. The only difference I notice is that sometimes I have to spin a little quicker or slower than I would on my road bike. I appreciate the lower end on dirt climbs - don't think I would get up many of those with a 34-30 gearing.

[@SnootchieBootchies27]

I'm with you! Gears that allow you to climb things while loaded without blowing a gasket. I also ride a singlespeed, but i wouldn't do it with 50 lbs of bags strapped to my ride.

[@mikesecrest2887]

I am happy to have found another cyclist who values the same gearing range and cycling philosophy that I value. Your videos are very informative. Thank you very much.

[@ssd2k2]

Road bike 52/36 x 11-25, Gravel 46/36 x 11-28 or 11-34, Monster Cross 42/28 x 11-32, Tour bike 48/36/26 x 11-34, Fat 36/22 x 11-34. I picked ring sizes that keep the chain line straight for my average cruising speed on each bike. Vary rarely do I ever use the 11t cog most times I'm in the 14-17t range

[@richardharker2775]

Well spoken. Very few manufacturers offer a 46/30 crank and Spec put a halfway bet on their Diverge with 48/32. My spinout speed with 46/11 is about 50kph but no way can I ride at that speed and I won't be pedalling at that speed downhill anyway.
I'm with you Russ.

[@macmurfy2jka]

I find that using a simple ratio of say 1:1 better when talking about the mechanical advantage of a low end of a bike. If one considers each pedal revolution as two steps and considerinf the wheel size and crank diameter, thinking of it this way helps contextualize the fact that you will be going (insert ratio) compared to walking. If i have to lug 60 lbs up a hill, it would be nice to be able to trade speed for lower apparent weight. If your ratio is more than 1.2/1 then any hill will be way more difficult than walking. For road riding with short climbs that might not be a problem but for anything else it could be. You are still fighting the same amount of gravity. I can get by with my 39-38 set up. 34-36 would be closer to optimal for long endurance climbs on the road (a little extra apparent weight isn’t too bad) once you load up, thats when thing start to change though.
Beyond the low end gears at walking pace, I find that speed at my cadence is the most instructive measurement.

[@c.b.oliver1530]

Russ, good for you! 2 things-1) I ride some steep dirt and offroad in New England with an old school triple-48/36/24 with a, 11-28 cassette--I know, I know--a TRIPLE? I like it because it rides like a fairly close ratio double until you need to pull stumps in the 24 ring. 2) on Mr. Brown's gear ratio page I use his MPH @ RPM choice-80 or 90 when I am dubbing around with gears. It is more meaningful to my challenged brain than gear inches--you alluded to this comparing the high speeds of your compact and sub compact cranksets.

[@richardreiter66]

Don.t fell bad about the triple , I have 4 bikes one has a 1x with a rolhoff and my other three have triple and that is the way I am going to keep them. Love those smaller chain rings

[@SE-sd2xg]

Old'ish video,but YOU ROCK, brother! Thanks for looking out for us!

[@avenpace]

I have a zippy roadie with 11-30 Shimano 105 52/36 crank, but on my Specialized diverge honestly 46-30 on 10 speed cassette is just perfect for my light 200km+ bikepacking adventures and I usually ride 50/50 gravel roads across Poland - Apart from the small mountainous part on the border with Slovakia, the "Podhale" region, Poland is mostly flat, ideal for a cycling trip

[@simonfarr8670]

I think one of the things lost in conversation is that for the same speed (top end of a subcompact), a compact road crank or regular road crank will have a better chainline.
probably not the point of naysayers.
another point is that I've hit 38mph pretty consistently with a mountain bike double on gravel and singletrack, and that at a certain point, your legs aren't the limiting factor. one thing's for sure, my Fargo will have a 36x10 final gear, and I'm damn sure that'll be enough.

[@saintless]

That's one thing that gets me about people poo pooing triples.. "oh, they have so many useless redundant gears!" But it ignores chainline and wear. It also ignores that I'll have one preferred chainring for pavement and another for gravel... (and a granny for big hills).

[@benjaminogle11]

I’ll never understand why “Harden tf up” is the roadie motto. Pro cat 3s could have so much more fun if they stopped taking themselves so seriously.

[@rollinrat4850]

Lots of cyclists believe their bike or something besides themselves will help them go faster or farther or have more fun and its just plain old marketing BS. There's a sucker born every minute.
We are the motor and operator. The bike is just a machine. It goes nowhere without the rider and it has wheels that roll. You push the pedals harder or spin faster to go faster. Your mind all by itself can be an enormous factor when it comes to having fun! 🤩

[@BicycleTouringExplorer]

Thanks and I am going to 2x9 MTN Gearing with 24-38t front Chainrings with Bash Guard and 11-34t cassette 9 speed and later down the line I am going to 12-36t/11-36t or 11-40t/11-42t 9 speed cassette and right I am using 3x9 with my Shimano Deore m590 Crankset with
22-32-42t but I don't use the 42t fully loaded and the 42t hits the rail tracks by crossing 2 sets railroad tracks in San Diego, CA to get to my Stealth Bike Camping spot! and the crossing is not a paved/dirt road

[@VE7QRZ]

Still relevant rant.👍 I asked Sheldon Brown what my gear inches will be for a 2x10 32/22 11/46.....

[@CaptainShiny5000]

What annoys me most about my 50-34 crankset is actually not the highest/lowest gear - it's the high ratio if you jump between the chainrings. In many situations when I shift from the small into the big ring I have to shift one gear down on the cassette and that's pretty annoying. With some help from your community I figured that seems very possible to up/down/sidegrade (or whatever) to a 46-34 chainring combination on a lot of shimano road cranksets including my Tiagra. Combined with a 11-36 cassette (which is appearently compatible without issue albeit unofficially) that should give me an almost ideal gear ratio.

[@b4oh]

FSA Energy Crankset? They have 46/30 --- Pretty sweet!

[@monty2078]

On my gravel bike 700c/40mm I use 42/28 chain rings with an 11/32 cassette. I live in a hilly area and this works. On my road bike I use a 50/34 with an 11/34 cassette. They are very different bikes with different purposes and the 50/34 is just no fun on the gravel bike and doesn't make sense.

[@hansschotterradler3772]

I would like to put on 42/28 chain rings on my gravel bike. Is yours a Sram or Shimano setup?

[@monty2078]

@@hansschotterradler3772 shimano, with bits and pieces, but, by my LBS

[@753Jackson]

I have a few older 6 speed bikes. The gearing systems would greatly be improved with a sub compact without having to change everything.
Are there any sub compact cranksets available?

[@CRM08]

I use a FSA Gossamer Pro 30/46 on my cycle cross bike.

[@rafaelfranco7041]

"The pigeons just knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board, and then high five each other "ftw""
Best line ever

[@craigclayton5914]

Thanks for breaking it down!

[@madisondeans5566]

Great work & advocacy for us partypacers! Keep preaching it Russ !!👊👊🤙🚵‍♀️🚵‍♂️🎣

[@lemizle]

And I'm over here working on a build with a 42/26t crankset, and 11-42 cassette 🙊

[@oliverjessop4440]

My only bike has drop bars and is 24 36 if I spin out the why not coast

[@citizenpatriot1]

I have upgraded my Fatbike to a 36/12 cassette with my original 28/38 chainrings and it does very well on gravel and very reasonable on pavement! I’m 62 years old and fairly strong and tired of worrying about speed averages! I just want to have fun at a slower pace now ! Nothing against the road guys but I have nothing to prove except competition against my self ! I did a pedal Across Michigan trip with my Fatbike and was not the fastest but not the slowest against road and hybrid riders ! I have bell Fatbike tires that max out at 30 psi. And they are wonderful on gravel and road ! Hammering my bike to keep up with a pack of people causes me to miss the scenery more than i like ! But that’s me ! Nothing to prove other than i can make it as far as I want regardless of speed ! Fun Times !!

[@ziggypi4813]

a gear index is simple....it is the number of inches you travel in one crank rotation...you can think of it as the size of your leg....if climbing you want small legs, if sprinting long legs... personally i love going fast AND i love going slow..and when climbing i indulge in what i call zen climbing which is akin to zen walking meaning i go very very slow as a way to be chill and zen out and be spacious and thoughtless..its an art of sorts

[@klarkolofsson]

There's a strong macho culture in the bike community. I recently converted an old steel bike for gravel on the cheap, 1x10 groupset with 42T and 11-36 in the back. I haven't come to it yet but I lack a granny gear for sure.

[@mikemorehead5794]

Talk about timely. I am changing to a 46 from a 48 as we speak on my Surly CX build for this exact reason. I ride pretty light most of the time here in south FL in the flatlands and run a road cassette most of the time. Love all the ratios tight where The chainline lives most of the time.

[@johnbaca8692]

I have to go up and down some big hills on my commute and errands. And, my knees are old and abused. I like a 28/44 paired with an 11-34 cassette on my 9 speed drivetrain. I do ride with a rack and a trunk and/or paniers.

[@Darfur64]

I run a mountain triple up front, 44-34-28 and a 11-36 in the rear. Keep preaching!! #suppleculture

[@brianwilver5780]

Thank you for this video. I have an All-City Space horse and though it is technically considered a "Light Touring" all around bike, after a year of riding I have found that the 50/34 (compact) is too much gearing. I feel it especially in my longer rides and rides that are mostly on gravel or dirt, by mile 40 or so my legs ask for smaller gears. I have a rear rack, fenders, and handlebar bag on my bike year round with 40cm tires and I no longer race, so am all about the Party Pace! I just ordered a GRX 48/31 subcompact crankset and can't wait to get it on my rig and hopefully have more gas in the legs for longer rides. I particularly found you point about the top speeds very interesting, I never really need the highest gear ranges even when on downhills.

[@hartleymartin]

I use 48/44/28 chain rings with a 14-32 6-speed rear cluster on a 650B tourer. I don't ride fast anyway since I'm usually carrying a whole load of stuff for tours. I switched to 650B so I could ride unsealed roads. The previous 700Cx32 was just no good on unsealed roads for me. I think my gear is about 91 gear inches and my lowest is about 22.

[@swray2112]

I know this an older video, but I really don't get why there has to be a choice between industry standards. People think that index front shifting has to be to be used, which forces the standard gapped cranksets. Love rear indexing but always thought front indexing was just so limiting. So I use a Dura Ace bar-end shifter on a retroshift mount in friction mode & run what ever front combo I want. Plus I can always adjust the trim to always have max clearance.

[@mikstratok]

I feel kind of silly watching these videos since I ride on a Rohloff internal gear hub because I can't stand deraileurs... but somehow I find your videos very engaging

[@eisernerbursche]

I ride my heavy steel 29er drop bar with 42-26 and 11-40. That makes me go up anything with luggage.

[@claudiomunoz663]

Hola ! Qué desviador delantero usas?

[@darianvangorkum7389]

Great discussion. Gravel roads and trails found in the mountains I like to ride have grades up to 12-18 percent. That simply can not be done on road gearing. Since gravel bikes are supposed to be an adventure in the mountains and on roads, they should have gearing closer to mountain bikes, and yet still have some high end gearing for pavement. Luckily my Canyon Grizl has an RX600 46-30 crankset, but I still am going to put on a 11-40 cassette even though Shimano says I can't. I understand the cross chain potential for damage to the rear derailleur. There will be "more aware" producers that see the void in the market, fill it, make good money then the big companies will follow...hopefully.

[@WheelersAtLarge]

Thanks for the information have already looked at 46-30 and think it's the way to go on mixed gravel and road rides. Cycling seems to be full of traditions that some riders can't move on from and I don't think this will change any day soon.

[@rollinrat4850]

Haha, ain't that the truth. I don't care what other riders say or think. Its just not going to stop me from doing what I love.
BTW, hardly anyone looks at their bikes while riding them!

[@GrahamAtDesk]

My road bike is 44/28 on a 12:28 10 speed cassette. Lovely spacing between the gears, and the option to drop the low end for some lightweight bike packing in hilly areas just by changing the cassette. I've only needed top gear once (when I used it to drop a lycra clad fool who insisted on drafting me, riding too close to my wheel while maneuvering in traffic).
If doing it again I suspect I'd go 46/30 just so that I'd spend more time on larger sprockets (they wear better, and are slightly more efficient). I'd get the same range with a different cassette (but I'd have to give up some of those really closely spaced gears). So perhaps I'd miss 44/28 anyway!
My Straggler is 1x with a 38T ring on an 11:42 cassette. Also works really well.

[@ShiningTrapezoid]

Hit 41mph going downhill with a 46. That's fast enough. I'm gonna put a fukkin 26 on the small ring and climb all day.

[@Schwartzworld]

And to muck up this whole argument (which I agree with 100%) where do the 1X's fit in? Do they make matters worse or make life easier?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Personally, don't like them.

[@HollyBoni]

When I was building my bike a year ago I was looking at complete groupsets. Without any modifications, adapters, or extra components I could have gone with either a 50x34 with an 11-32, or a 1x11 with a 42T and 10-42 cassette. (Nowadays an 11-34 cassette is pretty standard on a 2x road groupset)
To give you an idea 42x10 is the same as 46x11, and 42x42 is 1:1. So the range is almost as big as a road double at that time, I loose the pointless 50x11 high gear, and I get a slightly easier easier gear than 34:32.
It's easier to go to a lower gear on a 1x because you just change a chainring, but of course you loose the top end. Later on I went down to a 38T chainring.
So a 10-42 is slightly down on range, but it's a bit easier and cheaper to get lower gears. If you really want with a SRAM road crankset you can just slap a direct mount 28T ring on your gravel bike...
When Eagle will come out for drop bars with it's massive 10-50 cassette the range issue will be history, and i'll be the happiest dude on the planet. 42x10 is equivalent to 46x11, and 42x50 is the same as 30x36. :) So one chainring, and the same range as a 46/30 with an 11-36.

[@SteveFullerBikes]

Personally, I'm fine with 1x for unloaded or a lightly loaded day ride. For loaded riding or loaded riding when there's lots of hills, like Montana where Russ is, I still prefer a 2x or a Rohloff.

[@lukeholloway7836]

Spinners are winners

[@mryotahead]

I just put a 46/30-11*36 9 speed on my surly straggler. I had 50/34 11/34 11 speed. The
46/30 feels perfect on the surly. In fact, on a test run I placed 2nd on a 13% gravel climb near me. I will take the KOM soon and report back.

[@slesicki]

Wonderful statement on gear choices. I appreciate low gears especially as I get older.

[@edcatt9196]

I love riding gravel, and roads that stray from the heavily trafficked black top. The peace of mind in that context is SO much! I'm more of a ramble-rider, an explorer, and ride to see, rather than get a T-shirt, etc. I have friends that race, and love it, and want me to go along with them on those races. Good people, but I'm not a racer. So, I beg-off and find my own ride somewhere else, in relative quiet, where I can soak in the ambience. Races are exciting, but in a 'race' (it seems) there's not a lot of safe options for enjoying the scenery. It's dangerous to gawk in that context anyway! So, I go on a different sort of ride experience. Each to their own. There's room for everyone (and more room on the back roads)!! Thanks, Russ for speaking up for us non-racers!

[@xrated_]

My bike came with 38t front and 11-42t rear and i found that on steep stuff its way to strong whereas on flat roads there is still a bit of buffer so i think i will go to 34t front and 11-48t rear. This will still get about 24mph top speed and 4mph on climbs. I am living in south germany near the Alps and not into racing. With such mini brake discs you dont want to pedal downhill anyway.

[@dmitryliashko78]

If you are making calculations anyway, please, convert mph to kph for "rest of the world". Not too much of a work for you, but so much appretiation from viewers from other countries. The same from kilos and pouns. Personally I can multply by 1.6 and divide by 2.2 in my head, but for some others this can be a challenge.

[@mr02gixxer1000]

I can understand people wanting lowering gearing. But I think their is a lot of it depends here. Like for example the first bike to win dirty kanza 200 in 2006 was a old steel cyclocross bike with a gearing of 50/39 chain rings with a 12-25 cassette with cantilever brakes mr Dan hues bike Hope i am spelling his name right lol forgive if I am not. Let’s think about that for a little bit. I think it has a lot to do with strength and fitness, since that time we now have 50/34 46/36 and now some 46/30 and they are even people that are asking for lower gearing. So the way I see it one should choose gearing according to their strength and fitness level and the conditions that you are riding in like mountainous regions etc. for me I can climb pretty much anything with a 50/34 up from and a 11/34 in the back but I understand if that’s to much for some people which is why we should have choices and every body wins.

[@firstmatepegboot2589]

i'm about to run a 34 single chainring, with a 11-28 rear casette. wondering if i should get an 11/36 just to help on all the crazy hills i have around my area... will i need that 1:1 ratio?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Yes.

[@andrewm6192]

We need t-shirts 46/30 people.....spin to win 😁🇬🇧

[@VinceVideo53]

Had to do some walking in the slo backcountry this weekend. That's not the worst thing in the world but a 46/30 would have got me up it.

[@scottcopeland7457]

Running a New Albion 42/26 right now, ❤it.

[@randyandjody]

Triple chainring will sort this problem for 1/2 the price.

[@timkosem3521]

Perhaps; but I always found my triples never shifted as crisply as doubles and were a pain to set up. Once I converted my commuter bike from 50/39/30 with 12-25 in the rear to 50/34 with 11-30/32 in the rear, I have never looked back. That was 10 years ago. Now that I'm pushing 60, I'm eyeing the 46/30 chainring for my road bike to make our hilly area more enjoyable. But, as they say, whatever floats your boat!

[@willemrm4033]

With my cycling road bike club i ride at average between 25 and 27 km/h I can most often quite easily follow with my gravel bike 46/30 X 34/11.
But on flat long roads i have to do a lot more effort as the bike is heavier and tires are wider so getting to 35 km/h with
my gravel bike 46/11 is more effort then with my road bike 50/11. On a road bike that got stolen I also got 46/11 and that didn't make any difference.
Maybe if going to 40km/h on the flat, for several kilometers, but never did that in my life.
I actually find the gap between 46/30 too much , i might go for a 42/30, but the brazed on front derailleur can't be moved any lower.
Same with my road bikes were I would also like a 46 instead of a 50.

[@michaelgibson7403]

Like a good Bourbon, I'm savoring your Rage! Good luck on your quest.

[@curtbrown7578]

Surly Bridge Club. Low geared. Review suggested ...when the ice thaws

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Looking forward to that day.

[@brucejohnson2684]

On thing you didn't mention is that you can get lower gearing with the 46-30 and keep a more reasonable cassette that will give you a very nice step progression through the range. I have a couple of friends that have done this for their travel road bikes they take to Europe to ride the BIG passes. They don't care about top speed but want to be comfortable with a manageable heart rate and not have big jumps in their gear ratios.

[@BrianRouse]

Awesome video. I'm looking at a few models now and the one I'm leaning towards is a 46/30. So it's a nice coincidence for me to find this video!

[@Brad-cb2dt]

Thought about swapping to a subcompact on my road bike. Happy that I didn’t because of the group that I’m riding with now, which is kicking my butt.
That said, I’m talking about a road bike. For gravel and/or bike-packing, a subcompact probably the best choice 2 by setup for MOST people. I’m a strong believer in low gear ratios.
With no load, running 34 / 32 is barely sufficient for a steep grade imo. Maybe I should just “buck up” since it’s a road bike 😂. Nah… I’ll trade speed for leverage any day. Why make climbing suck when it doesn’t have to suck?

[@twowheelslater7112]

you got me thinking about the sub compact thing. I was thinking I could save some weight with a 11-32 and a 32-46. I looked it up on the calculator and your would have to go with a 26 front to get as low of gearing as the bigger 42 cassette with a stock 36 front. Where I live in ga if you go south its flat if you go north there are 2000 foot climbs. I can deal with the 11-42 and 36-50 on any grade I have met so far ( suffering a times admittedly ) but yeah If I headed out north packed up I would need to get a smaller small ring. did 500 miles packed headed south on stock 11-32 gearing. I do use the bike on trainer and need the 50 for cadence drills. I still say bring back the triple.