I have the Midgard….using it in a Schiit stack with their Magnius DAC, running Sennheiser HD660S2 headphones. I replaced the cable to use 4 pin XLR. I’m a noob, but so far love the build quality and the overall sound I’m getting using a standard TIDAL subscription from a standard DELL laptop. I think Schiit products were a great jumping off point for a noob….i didn’t want to start with Chi-fi and didn’t want to start out spending more than $1000 for my setup. Schiit Midgard has more than enough power and feels super clean and warm enough for my tastes.
Just to add onto some of the other information points here: -Magnius is op-amp based, Midgard is discrete -Midgard is internally a single-ended amp design (as mentioned elsewhere) -The 4-pin XLR is really just to enable the Halo circuit, power output should be essentially the same as the single-ended output -Halo relies on back-EMF from the headphone drivers - I've seen an assertion that this only really works with voice coils, not with planar drivers -Halo doesn't feedback the full signal, it subtracts the output from the input to get the error, and then uses just the error generated by the drivers for feedback. -4-pin XLR is required for Halo, because it needs independent grounds for each driver in order to correctly determine the error.
Thanks for the additional info. If HALO does indeed work in reaction to back emf then yes, it would be more for dynamic drivers than planar drivers. Back emf is the result of a wire coil generating a current from its own magnetic field. Dynamic drivers use wire coils. Planars use a wire trace running through, well, a plane. HALO is an interesting design idea. The biggest difference I heard between the balanced and SE outputs here was with the 600 ohm DT880 which would be the 'extreme' case of what you're talking about, likely. This also makes me curious about what the long term prospects are for halo. If it's most helpful with hi-z dynamics and one of the big sources of hi-z dynamic driver headphones wires their headphones for single-ended connectivity...it'll be interesting to see where this goes.
Hi. Just to clarify, the amp is single ended internally, Jason wrote: "Balanced inputs are converted to single-ended, so if you want to go straight in, RCA is the way to go." So not to confuse people here, thanks for the review :)
Thanks for clarifying. It's an odd mix given that the balanced headphone output is the one with the halo circuitry. Maybe they couldn't do that with the SE output because of the shared return connection. Even so, my ears tell me the drop-off from using the SE output of appropriately priced balanced dacs is greater than connecting them to the balanced input of this amp. Each user will have to find their uh, balance, there.
@@wavetheorysound Yes, balanced output from dac will probably give more than se from the same dac even when converted to se later on. How weird is it, that Halo works only on balanced out, but yet it´s not balanced. I like reading Jasons stories... :D Will you try another power adapter to improve sound maybe? Many thanks, you really do good reviews :)
@@wavetheorysound as I read it the Halo output uses XLR to separate the feedback paths for the two channels but it isn't balanced, meaning that the L- and R- pins on the XLR connector are tied to ground. If using the balanced input on the Midgard from a DAC sounds better than using that DAC's SE outputs then there are two possibilities: Midgard is doing a better job of summing the balanced input to SE than the DAC is doing on its output, or there's noise on the SE output that's present as common mode noise on the DAC's balanced output and thus inherently cancelled out. Depending on your source this can be a real problem and is one of the big reasons why people might want to consider using balanced interconnects between their DAC and amp even if they only ever intend to use the single-ended output from the amp.
@@hiraksarma3068 Very true. The only YT review so far is from Currawong, who stated it was somewhat comparable to his ALO Studio Six at $4k US O__o My reference headphone is (and will always be) Sennheiser's HD 800S and am looking for my next head-amp. Am considering this, but also Woo Audio's WA6-SE. So would like to see a few more reviews. Ultimately, I'll demo both to fully decide.
Speaking of price appropriate chains, has anyone ever done any tests to see how much a $200-$400 amp really holds back a $750-1.2k DAC? Or a $1.5-$2k DAC? Or vice-versa. Obviously it will depend on the specific amps and DACs. There are examples of each that punch above their price.
Interesting question. The other variable is the transducer. How much one piece holds back another will likely vary based on what headphone/speaker is being used for the evaluation as well.
I have the midgard paired with a topping d70s and they go very well together, I also have a singxer sa-1 and I will be honest I prefer the midgard over it for certain headphones, it definitely sounds wonderful!
If you had a pair of Grado RS2E's which would you pick? Asgard 3 or Midgard? I actually already have an Asgard 3, but I blew the output stage on it (long story, I was essentially saying, "Hey guys, watch this..."). So, should I replace the Asgard 3 with a A3 or buy the Midgard?
Thanks again for all of the good information points!! Lot's to consider. I've honestly been curious about the Midgard. I wonder how the SE output works with HP like the common Koss offerings Porta Pro's KPH30/40s etc. even though most of the HPs I would be using with the amp are cabled for balanced. Still, Midgard is interesting for a balanced output amp vs. moving up to the Jot 2. I know I'm a stand out on this point but, I liked the Jot 2 on its balanced output. and that's what I personally would be comparing it to if setting up a mid-tier Schiit-stack along the lines of an OG BF2 with a Jot2 or Midgard because balance output is desired over the Asgard 3 SE only.
I have kph-40 and it definitely pairs well, this is actually a single ended amp, and the single ended output has the same amount of power as the xlr the only main difference between the two is the xlr output has the halo and quarter inch doesnt.
I got Asgard 3 Modi+ stack and FIiiO K9 Pro was planning to replace FiiO K9 Pro and I want to grab a pair of HE6SE and Arya Organic. Would EF500 or Midguard pair better with HFM headphones like HE6SE and less so but still Arya Organic?
Can you please tell how Midgard is compared to Jotunheim regarding headphone amplification? I like headphone/balance out switch on the front Jotunheim has. Is it worth extra $200? Thinking to get Midgard/Modius combo but this holds me because I don't know if Jotunheim is better (ignoring the fact that it's modular). Thanks!
I linked to my old written review of Jot 2 in the description. I did a comparison b/w it and Asgard 3 in that review. That should help you position Midgard relative to it.
Thanks for the review. I noticed you thought the Midgard didn't get the best sound from 600 ohm DT880s. Do you think the same would be true for my 600 ohm DT660s?
Can you quantify the increase in performance from some of your very $ amps compared to the midgard. Is it 3% 10% 20% increase in detail, Soundstage, etc.
I assumed it was mid like the rest of schiit. I’m interested in the schiit skoll balanced phono while currently have the mani. Your statement that cheap dacs sound inferior through single ended output. Would you assume the same for the skoll phono if I have rcas coming from my cart where the phono is a balanced design?
It's possible but I really don't know. Schiit is one of the better BAL-SE conversion companies in general (although they haven't completely erased the gaps) so it's probably at least decent.
@@wavetheorysound thx was just wondering in theory if the issue is balanced dacs stepping down in performance when running SE could also apply to a phono. Probably would need to test it out. Just don’t want to have to buy a $2k+ exotic cart to make my $400 balanced phono work better
I wonder how many audiophiles will think beyond the use of a headphone amplifier? You have here an excellent preamplfier that can be used with your choice of power amplifier and your have an excellent starter system only limited by your choice of loudspeakers. If you can go balanced all the better! I temporarily used the Midgard and connected balanced to my Rotel RB-1582 MkII Stereo Power Amplifier and got relatively close to the SS Freya preamp soundwise. Cheers!
I ran Modius to my Bryston 14BSST via XLRs, source is Topping D90SE. Modius compared to Kara / C47 sounded OK but nothing special. I wonder if Midgard does a better job in this regard. I sold Modius to my buddy who's balanced tube preamp had just croaked and he's still using it 2 years later.
Waiting for the Fiio FT3 review. I have them and they are a joy to listen - they beat the HD6xx headphones in my experience and are a perfect fit for their K7 DAC/AMP.
The Midgard thru the XLR output corrects the timbre in the treble of my Focal Clears. That slight metallic-ness goes away. It has so much power I've yet to even touch the high gain. Everything runs fine before even getting to noon on the dial.
That's a fair point but also a new point. I think the MB dac module is just now making a return. Also, it's limited to a single USB input - no optical or coax - which may not be enough for some systems.
Midgard is pretty transparent to what DAC and source you're feeding it. It does need to be fed with glare free digital signal to the DAC, and that DAC must also be glare-free in order to eliminate the sibilance that you've mentioned
I hadn't thought of that but they might be in the clear. I'm not aware of Parasound's use of halo corresponding to specific circuit design. It might be just a name for a product line. That might be different enough to not create problems.
![SingXer SA-1 vs Jotunheim 2 vs A90 vs THX AAA 789 [ Solid State Showdown Pt.1 ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/429AMOXdYZY/mqdefault.jpg)
I have the Midgard….using it in a Schiit stack with their Magnius DAC, running Sennheiser HD660S2 headphones. I replaced the cable to use 4 pin XLR. I’m a noob, but so far love the build quality and the overall sound I’m getting using a standard TIDAL subscription from a standard DELL laptop. I think Schiit products were a great jumping off point for a noob….i didn’t want to start with Chi-fi and didn’t want to start out spending more than $1000 for my setup. Schiit Midgard has more than enough power and feels super clean and warm enough for my tastes.
There's no need for you to spend another dime on anything but headphones. A $1000 amp won't sound a 1000 times better
Just to add onto some of the other information points here:
-Magnius is op-amp based, Midgard is discrete
-Midgard is internally a single-ended amp design (as mentioned elsewhere)
-The 4-pin XLR is really just to enable the Halo circuit, power output should be essentially the same as the single-ended output
-Halo relies on back-EMF from the headphone drivers - I've seen an assertion that this only really works with voice coils, not with planar drivers
-Halo doesn't feedback the full signal, it subtracts the output from the input to get the error, and then uses just the error generated by the drivers for feedback.
-4-pin XLR is required for Halo, because it needs independent grounds for each driver in order to correctly determine the error.
Thanks for the additional info. If HALO does indeed work in reaction to back emf then yes, it would be more for dynamic drivers than planar drivers. Back emf is the result of a wire coil generating a current from its own magnetic field. Dynamic drivers use wire coils. Planars use a wire trace running through, well, a plane. HALO is an interesting design idea. The biggest difference I heard between the balanced and SE outputs here was with the 600 ohm DT880 which would be the 'extreme' case of what you're talking about, likely. This also makes me curious about what the long term prospects are for halo. If it's most helpful with hi-z dynamics and one of the big sources of hi-z dynamic driver headphones wires their headphones for single-ended connectivity...it'll be interesting to see where this goes.
It isn't a balanced amplifier, therefore no output of a balanced signal @@wavetheorysound . You were corrected and then made the same mistake again.
And it is clearly stated on shiit website. Same power. Do you homework
Hi. Just to clarify, the amp is single ended internally, Jason wrote: "Balanced inputs are converted to single-ended, so if you want to go straight in, RCA is the way to go." So not to confuse people here, thanks for the review :)
Thanks for clarifying. It's an odd mix given that the balanced headphone output is the one with the halo circuitry. Maybe they couldn't do that with the SE output because of the shared return connection. Even so, my ears tell me the drop-off from using the SE output of appropriately priced balanced dacs is greater than connecting them to the balanced input of this amp. Each user will have to find their uh, balance, there.
@@wavetheorysound Yes, balanced output from dac will probably give more than se from the same dac even when converted to se later on. How weird is it, that Halo works only on balanced out, but yet it´s not balanced. I like reading Jasons stories... :D Will you try another power adapter to improve sound maybe? Many thanks, you really do good reviews :)
@@wavetheorysound as I read it the Halo output uses XLR to separate the feedback paths for the two channels but it isn't balanced, meaning that the L- and R- pins on the XLR connector are tied to ground. If using the balanced input on the Midgard from a DAC sounds better than using that DAC's SE outputs then there are two possibilities: Midgard is doing a better job of summing the balanced input to SE than the DAC is doing on its output, or there's noise on the SE output that's present as common mode noise on the DAC's balanced output and thus inherently cancelled out. Depending on your source this can be a real problem and is one of the big reasons why people might want to consider using balanced interconnects between their DAC and amp even if they only ever intend to use the single-ended output from the amp.
Why do you continue to reference balanced ? Its literally not.
Thank you very much. Eagerly awaiting the other big piece of Schiit :-) The Mjolnir 3 review - thanks very much in advance.
Really looking forward to the MJ3 review, if it turns out as good as some folks are saying it could be a game changer at this price point.
@@hiraksarma3068 Very true. The only YT review so far is from Currawong, who stated it was somewhat comparable to his ALO Studio Six at $4k US O__o
My reference headphone is (and will always be) Sennheiser's HD 800S and am looking for my next head-amp. Am considering this, but also Woo Audio's WA6-SE. So would like to see a few more reviews. Ultimately, I'll demo both to fully decide.
Given its limited run nature there aren't a ton of review units floating around.
@@wavetheorysound I tend to forget .. are you based in EU(including UK) or US again?
@@jonasschimrigk8333 US
Sounds like a great amp for the price!
I fell sleep lol. 😪and i bought one also . 😉👍
Speaking of price appropriate chains, has anyone ever done any tests to see how much a $200-$400 amp really holds back a $750-1.2k DAC? Or a $1.5-$2k DAC? Or vice-versa. Obviously it will depend on the specific amps and DACs. There are examples of each that punch above their price.
Interesting question. The other variable is the transducer. How much one piece holds back another will likely vary based on what headphone/speaker is being used for the evaluation as well.
I have the midgard paired with a topping d70s and they go very well together, I also have a singxer sa-1 and I will be honest I prefer the midgard over it for certain headphones, it definitely sounds wonderful!
Jotunheim 2. Just get that.
Anyone know how this stacks up to jot2?
If you had a pair of Grado RS2E's which would you pick? Asgard 3 or Midgard? I actually already have an Asgard 3, but I blew the output stage on it (long story, I was essentially saying, "Hey guys, watch this..."). So, should I replace the Asgard 3 with a A3 or buy the Midgard?
Thanks again for all of the good information points!! Lot's to consider. I've honestly been curious about the Midgard. I wonder how the SE output works with HP like the common Koss offerings Porta Pro's KPH30/40s etc. even though most of the HPs I would be using with the amp are cabled for balanced. Still, Midgard is interesting for a balanced output amp vs. moving up to the Jot 2. I know I'm a stand out on this point but, I liked the Jot 2 on its balanced output. and that's what I personally would be comparing it to if setting up a mid-tier Schiit-stack along the lines of an OG BF2 with a Jot2 or Midgard because balance output is desired over the Asgard 3 SE only.
I have kph-40 and it definitely pairs well, this is actually a single ended amp, and the single ended output has the same amount of power as the xlr the only main difference between the two is the xlr output has the halo and quarter inch doesnt.
I got Asgard 3 Modi+ stack and FIiiO K9 Pro was planning to replace FiiO K9 Pro and I want to grab a pair of HE6SE and Arya Organic.
Would EF500 or Midguard pair better with HFM headphones like HE6SE and less so but still Arya Organic?
Can you please tell how Midgard is compared to Jotunheim regarding headphone amplification? I like headphone/balance out switch on the front Jotunheim has. Is it worth extra $200? Thinking to get Midgard/Modius combo but this holds me because I don't know if Jotunheim is better (ignoring the fact that it's modular). Thanks!
I linked to my old written review of Jot 2 in the description. I did a comparison b/w it and Asgard 3 in that review. That should help you position Midgard relative to it.
@@wavetheorysound thanks!!
Thanks for the review. I noticed you thought the Midgard didn't get the best sound from 600 ohm DT880s. Do you think the same would be true for my 600 ohm DT660s?
Hello!
would using active speakers with a modius/midgard stack be a waste? is it better using passive speakers?
Can you quantify the increase in performance from some of your very $ amps compared to the midgard. Is it 3% 10% 20% increase in detail, Soundstage, etc.
Did you try the Midguard with that Schiit Multi you recently reviewed?
Can you use this Midgard as a preamp for a mono configuration? I'm thinking of pairing 2 Gjallahorn amps with it
👍🌟👍
♥
I assumed it was mid like the rest of schiit. I’m interested in the schiit skoll balanced phono while currently have the mani. Your statement that cheap dacs sound inferior through single ended output. Would you assume the same for the skoll phono if I have rcas coming from my cart where the phono is a balanced design?
It's possible but I really don't know. Schiit is one of the better BAL-SE conversion companies in general (although they haven't completely erased the gaps) so it's probably at least decent.
@@wavetheorysound thx was just wondering in theory if the issue is balanced dacs stepping down in performance when running SE could also apply to a phono. Probably would need to test it out. Just don’t want to have to buy a $2k+ exotic cart to make my $400 balanced phono work better
People use their Susvaras on it
I use the Susvara with it! No complaints at all!
@@NexusS4GIceJelly I got it because of how cheap and how much power it has. My SMSL SP200 made it kinda a side-grade but it's a nice little amp
I wonder how many audiophiles will think beyond the use of a headphone amplifier? You have here an excellent preamplfier that can be used with your choice of power amplifier and your have an excellent starter system only limited by your choice of loudspeakers. If you can go balanced all the better! I temporarily used the Midgard and connected balanced to my Rotel RB-1582 MkII Stereo Power Amplifier and got relatively close to the SS Freya preamp soundwise. Cheers!
I ran Modius to my Bryston 14BSST via XLRs, source is Topping D90SE. Modius compared to Kara / C47 sounded OK but nothing special. I wonder if Midgard does a better job in this regard. I sold Modius to my buddy who's balanced tube preamp had just croaked and he's still using it 2 years later.
@@herrtrigger7220 are you confusing the Modius DAC with the Midgard preamp? Or am I missing something here?
Waiting for the Fiio FT3 review. I have them and they are a joy to listen - they beat the HD6xx headphones in my experience and are a perfect fit for their K7 DAC/AMP.
The Midgard thru the XLR output corrects the timbre in the treble of my Focal Clears. That slight metallic-ness goes away. It has so much power I've yet to even touch the high gain. Everything runs fine before even getting to noon on the dial.
Why wouldn’t you just add the Multibit DAC option to the Asgard so that you got great single ended performance?
That's a fair point but also a new point. I think the MB dac module is just now making a return. Also, it's limited to a single USB input - no optical or coax - which may not be enough for some systems.
Midgard is pretty transparent to what DAC and source you're feeding it. It does need to be fed with glare free digital signal to the DAC, and that DAC must also be glare-free in order to eliminate the sibilance that you've mentioned
That's why I went with the Asgard 3 over the Midgard
Do you think the Asgard 3 would pair well with a Bifrost 2/64?
It's a fine pairing. The BF2/64 has one of the better SE outputs from a balanced dac under $1k. There is a drop-off, but less severe than most.
I think Schit is going to have some trademark infringement issues with Parasound over the name Halo.
I hadn't thought of that but they might be in the clear. I'm not aware of Parasound's use of halo corresponding to specific circuit design. It might be just a name for a product line. That might be different enough to not create problems.