Writing, acting, cinematography, direction, themes, and sheer BALLS to go all in while keeping the audience enthralled, just as Oz does to his friends and enemies
I’ve been waiting for this review. I loved this show to me every episode all killer no filler. A well written female character I like who’s got obstacles to overcome and was outsmarted by the most dangerous version of The Penguin.
When a show doesn’t realize their protagonist is also a villain, it tells me everything I need to know about the writers. I doubt it is possible to be dumb enough to forget the mountain of evil actions of your own character… so I suspect that on some level the writers genuinely believe their character is justified. I will not touch the work of someone like that. But if you KNOW your protagonist is a villain, that changes everything
This is why I couldn't get onboard with the AAA characters. All their villainous acts get glossed over and there's no real accountability for any of them.
How much of it is due to entitlement of the activist/writers? They think that not only are they entitled to our time and attention in consuming their product, they think their one dimensional girlboss characters are entitled to our love and respect without having to actually earn it.
Imagine if we got this type of show for The Kingpin or for Lex Luthor. We need elevation of the comic book genre like this show was. And stop making villains anti heroes and instead villain protagonists. There’s a difference. Even a character like Venom who’s an anti hero sometimes was mishandled by the creatives making him a PG-13 cringe comedy for the whole family instead of being like the punisher if he was a hulking alien monster.
@ exactly. Every generation wants innovation and more substance after having the same thing for so long. Like the musicals and westerns, the superhero genre has become stale overtime with same repetitiveness.
Kingpin would have benefited so much from this type of treatment. Just imagine if the lead-in to Born Again had been a Wilson Fisk vehicle like this instead of Hawkeye and Echo...
@ exactly and although he’s a pure evil villain they would’ve humanized him like Oz and show his personal connection with his family such as Vanessa and their son and why he feels he’s in the right because he’s setting up a good future for his family to leave behind even though he’s going about it the wrong way. Similar to the version from the 90’s Spider Man animated series where he feels there’s no turning back from his life of crime as he was practically born and raised in that life style and he can’t profit from anything other than the criminal underworld system but still likes to facade it with a legitimate business such as creating criminology departments to make people feel he’s a person who is in their interests and who they can trust and make himself believe he’s “redeeming” his evil actions by giving back to the community he allows to get robbed from. To showcase his delusional and psychotic mentality similar to Oz from the Penguin.
Fun fact: Lauren LeFranc was a writer on Agents of SHIELD so she already has experience over at Marvel and that should tell you why The Penguin was so great.
In a way, maybe. But it's not like he had good intentions. His motivations were undoubtedly self-serving, though he seemed to fool himself into thinking otherwise.
I think you nailed It: This show understand pretty well that Penguin is evil. Not only It doesn't try to sugarcoat It at any point, but It plays with your empathy towards him. You see a scene with his mom and understands the hard life he had until that point and legit feels for him, next scene you see him burn Marone's family alive and then later mock him.
The penguin was a masterpiece one of the rare lighting in a bottle things that happen like the original Netflix daredevil. I hope they don’t make another season and leave it as a legendary show. It’s shocking something this good is even possible considering the times we are living in
I’m so glad they didn’t wokefy her whole story nor say that she was a spring chicken either because they still pretty much establish she still is a evil person despite being sympathetic unlike Oswald and has redeeming qualities. There was no excuse her blowing up that neighborhood as there were innocent people who could’ve died. Also she tried cutting Francis’ finger off. Sofia didn’t need to do all that. Yeah she’s mentally unstable due to all that’s happened to her but it still doesn’t justify her actions like those.
Penguin was phenomenal. The acting was flawless. Everybody played their role so well. Farrell was just perfect as Oz. I rooted for him right until the very end, which is where he became a real villain and I suddenly felt myself turning against him. Vic was the heart of the show. Sophia was dangerous, sexy, unhinged and captivating. This is how you do a tv series.
The Penguin's cast and plot reminds me of the Sopranos tbh. You're watching a group of genuinely terrible, selfish, people that the show acknowledges as such. But because they have just enough humanising elements & are genuinely interesting you're glued to your seat.
I’m glad they didn’t have Sofia plot line be there as woke propaganda and instead just had her be the victim of being framed by her father after asking too many questions about the women victims that worked in Below which were Carmine’s fling girlfriends he murdered by being too aggressive and covered up to look like suicide, which was similar to how he murdered Sofia’s mother when she tried taking custody over their kids and framed her death like suicide. Sofia being framed by him wasn’t because she’s a woman but because she got on her dad’s wrong side. He even was initially going to give her the position of power over the family, but when she starting talking about her deceased mother he became suspicious of her going to meet with that investigator woman so sent her to Arkham to not risk getting caught for his crimes. By the way, despite Sofia being more sympathetic than Oz, the fact they don’t shy away from the fact that she’s still also a terrible person and even though she was mentally messed up by her mistreatment by her family she still does questionable inexcusable and horrible actions like blowing up a neighborhood of innocent people and also attempting to cut off Francis’ finger is so commendable as they showcase that she’s still a bad person too even though Oswald is overall much worse because at least she has redeemable qualities. If this show was from Disney Marvel they would’ve made her completely a good person who was mistreated because of the patriarchy and for being a woman and her father is a sexist misogynist instead of being just a psychotic crime boss who covers up his own crimes by any means necessary even if it means framing his own kin. Disney Marvel would’ve just made it about sexism crap.
This is EXACTLY my point. When Marvel has a TV show losing to a DC show, they should know something is wrong. They should know they f'ed up big time. Penguin's representation works while Agatha's is pandering cringe. Hell, at this rate, Disney just enjoys sabotaging itself and as far as I'm concerned, they're no better than WB when they cast Ezra Miller as Flash.
This problem of showrunners not acknowledging the evilness, or just even the flaws, of their (not well written) female protagonists has been constant in recent years from Disney
penguin was a fantastic show. Loved the whole cast. Great writing, great direction. I will say only thing that bugged us was the need for him to Oz cobb, His last name is cobblepot. Small thing but wasn;t he named that in the Batman movie. But overall, favorite show of the year. Nice to see a villain be a villain.
Just like with Logan I had to continue to remind myself that this is a comic book show... That is high praise to be able to immerse someone and make them completely forget the source material. Well done.
From marketing to writing, we can feel the strong inspiration from The Sopranos throughout the Penguin series, but it's a good thing to be inspired by the best shows
The interesting thing is that the characters in Penguin all display a humanity that's just lacking in Agatha. Both Oz and Sofia have scenes where we wonder if they're going to go total villain. Sometimes they do and other times they show mercy. Both characters also have a sense of being an underdog and are avenging wrongs against them. Both characters have moments where they appear human and vulnerable. And there are times where they win us over to their side. It has that element of a tragedy, where the character's flaws overcome them and lead them down a dark path, but you don't outright hate them, you just wish things had gone a bit different. This is what happens when you let skilled writers make characters. Agatha doesn't have any kind of relatable goal (at least for most of the show). She's just trying to get power for herself. At least in the first 3 episodes I watched (I didn't get farther than that), Agatha never showed any degree of humanity. She seemed like she was just spending too much time trying to be either quirky or bitchy. We never really got any sight of a multidimensional character under there. She doesn't have anything redeeming, she's pretty much just a pure black hat.
You have to have balls to make shows about villans, because shows about villans definitionally go to dark places. And if there's one thing disney lacks at every level, it's balls. Sony now too, apparently.
9:37 true, but I’m pretty sure Kevin Feige in general is allergic to good writers and directors. I mean, he only greenlit Deadpool 3 because he knew it would make the studio a ton of money…. And the rest is pretty much gonna be downhill laziness from there…
While i havent watched either show, i have heard great things about the penguin show, and if it ever gets a physical release, then ill definitely get it, while ill leave Agatha in the deep, fiery depths of the underworld.
@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09 Absolutely. But I honestly can't see how there are more people willing to watch Agatha All Along when there's so much better content available on Disney+.
@@VALonUA-cam I'd say most of the ppl watching Agatha were predominantly LGBT ppl and Kamala supporters. Hell, Acolyte had more views, so it wasn't surprising. Not low, but not surprising either
Yeah imagine if right at the end Oz sat on that bench with Vic and was like "You're the king pin now, kid" and then shoots himself. That's how agatha ended all the evil whipped away by a last minute "self sacrifice" because they can't have the bad guy win even in a spin off.
Agatha writers don't understand that self-serving narcissistic monsters are a bad thing because that's probably what they are. They don't see the irony.
Same goes for Loki. Loki should’ve stayed a villain considering the fact that he was fresh from trying to destroy NYC for thanos. And “the mind gem made him evil” retcon bullshit doesn’t make sense because Loki KNEW what thanos was when he went to him. Loki STILL killed thousands of people in NYC, would’ve been more if not for the avengers. And im pretty sure if Loki saw how he was going to die, he wouldn’t just do a 180 and be a good guy. He would try to not make the same mistakes that variant did and who knows, may even manipulate everybody in the TVA to the point where he gets close to attaining this supposed “great power” to use against Thanos himself and the avengers that’s most of the time never shown. I mean, you think there would be an explanation as to how these human beings in the TVA are able to fuck up Loki… in his own fucking show…. Right after he mopped the floor with Captain America, threw Tony stark out a Window, and went toe to toe with Loki….. IT TOOK THE FUCKING HULK TO TAKE HIM DOWN…. The Penguin show is actually consistent with the character and did not stray from what he was suppose to be whatsoever.
My only issue with the show is Sofia becoming a slight Mary Sue at points in the later half of the season. Show also has a couple suspicious "because the plot says so" moments, but overall an outstanding season and masterfully told story.
@@thoriasunlimited4053 oof. I wanted that to be the case! That is one of my gripes. She wasn't outfoxed by Oz. Not really. I was hoping the ultimate reveal would have been that Oz had planned everything out long-term for things to shake out like it did. But no, it was Victor's plan that saved Oz's ass from Sofia. Not to mention how they did Sal dirty with the writing. They sidelined Sal for Sofia, and ultimately Sofia was undone at the eleventh hour simply because the story seemed to all at once remember exactly who and what she is: A scared, scarred woman that spent ten years in an insane asylum with no real power or connections. That kind of gave me whiplash.
The writers of Agatha try to make Agatha(a villain) a sympathetic character and that came off as disingenuous and Penguin embraces who he is and that showed us how genuine the writers made him.
@@JustTooDamnHonest she turned out to have killed hundreds of other witches over the last centuries to take their powers, so no, she was evil -just not always..
@@JustTooDamnHonest sympathetic? Agatha murdered hundreds of other witches over the last centuries and didn’t care much about the others in this story dying. But Agatha wasn’t all evil, no, but evil enough, I’d say
Crime dramas are easier to make than obscure comic book fantasy "comedies". There are very few crime dramas in recent history that are dog water. The Ozarks is to me the Agatha Harkness of crime dramas. The Penguin falls more into a Scorcese crime drama than a comic book.
As good as The Penguin was, hearing everyone call him "Oz Cobb" because the show was too embarrassed to use the character's actual name, will probably make me cringe forever
Failed? They both did a phenomenal job while both being completely different outside the fact that they are comic book based characters. I get woeful ignorance but it's 2024, comic book adaptations are not inventing new shit, they still follow a formulaic beat. The real differences are the companies, two i constantly keep seeing this from people who misinterpreting this, Agatha was never a hero and the show itself proved it on several occasion. One clear example is using the son she loved as literal bait to murder unsuspecting women. We gain some sense of sympathy for the character but Agatha was still serve serving towards the end and only small specks of empathy pours out, just like with the Penguin to a degree. I think ya doing a disservice juxtaposing these two things together. The witches journey can be of healing but it typically is one of loss and survival, it's shown and stated throughout the series.
Dunno, I turned this stuff off when I realized that it was related to that terrible Batman movie. Series are such trash nowadays that people basically compete whose mountain of turds is "better"
This guy doesnt watch to Agatha after 3 episodes or he simply lying.Guys I dont wanna spoil to show go watch to show and u decide.People who agreed with him you mostly didnt even watch to show bc "show is woke".And u are just lying here.Really Agatha isnt a bad guy?Main event of the show was her scheme what are you smoking?Her loving her son doesnt change to fact she is bad woman manupilating and killing women for 3 centuries.Listen ur own video u keep contradicting with urself.
@@thoriasunlimited4053 K', you say that; but how can I trust you? You [and everyone else...] gave a wildly ringing endorsement of TF0, but then I actually watched that movie for myself... and I'm seriously wondering if there was a different movie with the same title that everyone but me saw [the movie was bad. I have no idea why its getting the praise that its getting] And now, you telling me that its better than 'Gotham' [one of the few DC shows I actually enjoyed] _really_ makes me raise an eyebrow
@@TorridPrime217Well, considering Gotham feels like a horrible nostalgia critic skit with cheap halloween costumes and hammy acting, i can say you are safe, bro. Gotham sucks, I'm sorry, i hated that show with a passion. That show was one of the other reasons why I never liked penguin as a villain before. I don't care about a twink bully Maguire
@@JohnnyJustice777 Ironically; what you said feels like a Nostalgia Critic take, which makes me inclined not to trust what you have to say. That, and Gotham is one of the few DCLA shows that I actually like
Good review and comparison. I watched one episode of Agatha and quit. I had no interest in a show about nothing but evil villains, so passed on Penguin. I doubt thats going to change. I need more shows like StarTrek Lower Decks. Nothing big going on, nothing earth shattering, its just fun to watch. These days, with whats on TV, its far more entertaining to watch your reviews of shows than it is to watch the shows. Thanks for doing this.
I honestly don't see the appeal. Yeah Penguin is evil, but this really feels like a regular Mobster movie. You could call it something other than Penguin and it wouldn't change much.
You’re saying the same argument that Joker 1 wasn’t a real Joker movie. The whole point is they are trying to not make it the same tired out formulaic thing every other comic book adaptation has been. Now there’s examples of doing it wrong, like Joker: Folie a Deux, but for the most part making movies like Joker, Logan, The Batman, that are comic book based but aren’t really generic comic book films isn’t a bad thing because it does something unique instead of the tiresome MCU crap. We want experimentation as long as it’s still good quality. The same old same old gets tiresome. Bright colorful and overly comedic superhero movies are played out. Give audiences variety.
@@SirRorschachJack so you want everything to be formulaic trash like the MCU?! You like portal in the sky crap?! You like cringe quips and cgi fights?! Ok fine go back to marvel then.
@@ParkerCS2 Joker 1 wasn't a real Joker movie either honestly. Both Penguin and Joker were both well-written and quality stuff, but they were barely comic book movies. Penguin could have just been any mobster show and Joker was basically a psychological thriller. Both feel like the DC comics IP was slapped on them and they could have essentially just been standalone projects and not much would have changed. In fact, it felt like someone had written a standalone movie and then later in production they decided to just modify the script a bit to add some DC comics references.
Was the poster for Agatha supposed to make the main character look like a gay man? I actually am being serious, that literally doesn't look like the woman in the show...
I love the penguin show. I had just one problem with it...... The Heavy Rain plot lol I was yelling god please don't make it so they can't get out and drown.
They wanted Agatha to be LGBTQ/Girl Power, fan fic. That was the ENTIRE point. When Hollyweird introduces “Gay” or “Girl Boss” that becomes the WHOLE point. And that’s why those stories flop. They aren’t good.
The difference is, Marvel wants you to like Agatha because she’s a woman. DC is giving you permission to like, hate, or vacillate on Oz Cobb despite his sex or anything he does.
What stories are those then? Because Agatha isn't good at all and it didn't set up jack sh*t for nothing about it made sense for it was basically magic can do anything(that is a very clear sign that the writers do not know of the magic system or how to make their magic make sense) and that has been a problem ever since Dr. Strange came in.
@@nathanieldiaz5254 If he is wrong then why isn't anyone talking about it after it end? No usually if something is as popular as someone claims it to be then there would be buzz about it on multiple sites, channels and whatnot. But after Agatha ended there hasn't been a single piece of fanfare.
I don't know, comparing Agatha to Penguin is kind of unfair to Agatha. They may have some overlapping themes, but they are very different (everything). Agatha may be poorly written MCU schlock, but that is all it was meant to be and the Agatha writers succeeded with what they set out to accomplish with it. 🤷♂
I agree they succeeded at making a boring, poorly paced, sloppy written show more worried about DEI points then crafting a captivating story. Meanwhile The Penguin in comparison is more worried about telling a story that makes you wanna see what happens next.
Can you give one positive review without tying it to a Disney whining session? Im out dude. This channel is lame predetermined reviews and angry period weeks. Seek therapy for your obsession with Disney.
Okay, so you have looked through his playlist, right? He clearly does review other works besides Disney (The Crow, Joker 2, the entire series of Batwoman, new Alien movie, Velma, I keep going). The thing is Disney is just the most prevalent with churning out crap and one of the more popular things with his audience. And even so, why wouldn't he? Disney was known for producing quality but it just keeps churning out agenda driven drivel. I'd be pissed and rant reviewing about it too.
Well sorry for pissing you off because Disney is the one who treats you like morons and excepts you to consume product without any thought on why Agatha sucks and The Penguin didn't. If Agatha is the only good thing here then the M-SHE-U is dead(since the MCU ended after Endgame).
@@ugan2 Exactly and channels like his do all of this is because we loved Disney and seeing it get destroy by woke nutjobs is not ok and on top of that they have taken away the art aspect of entertainment an turned it into propaganda.
@ugan2 apathy is the best weapon for crap. The disney thing is a crutch he needs at this point. I am just out on this shit. It shouldnt disrupt your day
@JustTooDamnHonest I agree. Why sit around and beat a dead horse? Unless its a crutch and personally therapeutic. Which is all this is at this point. Apathy is the best weapon, not whining
Agatha didn't fail, it wasn't superior like Penguin but it was a decent show. It wasn't utter garbage like The Acolyte. It just wasn't your type of show.
Vic: 'Oz you are like family to me'
Oz : 'you really shouldn't have said that'
Writing, acting, cinematography, direction, themes, and sheer BALLS to go all in while keeping the audience enthralled, just as Oz does to his friends and enemies
I’ve been waiting for this review. I loved this show to me every episode all killer no filler. A well written female character I like who’s got obstacles to overcome and was outsmarted by the most dangerous version of The Penguin.
💯🎯
Nuff said!!
Sofia was great. One of the best parts of the show.
@@thoriasunlimited4053 absolutely she deserves all the acclaim. A spinoff with her and Catwoman would be interesting
When a show doesn’t realize their protagonist is also a villain, it tells me everything I need to know about the writers. I doubt it is possible to be dumb enough to forget the mountain of evil actions of your own character… so I suspect that on some level the writers genuinely believe their character is justified. I will not touch the work of someone like that. But if you KNOW your protagonist is a villain, that changes everything
This is why I couldn't get onboard with the AAA characters. All their villainous acts get glossed over and there's no real accountability for any of them.
How much of it is due to entitlement of the activist/writers? They think that not only are they entitled to our time and attention in consuming their product, they think their one dimensional girlboss characters are entitled to our love and respect without having to actually earn it.
Imagine if we got this type of show for The Kingpin or for Lex Luthor. We need elevation of the comic book genre like this show was. And stop making villains anti heroes and instead villain protagonists. There’s a difference. Even a character like Venom who’s an anti hero sometimes was mishandled by the creatives making him a PG-13 cringe comedy for the whole family instead of being like the punisher if he was a hulking alien monster.
I would take this more as the public thirsts for crime and noir stories.
@ exactly. Every generation wants innovation and more substance after having the same thing for so long. Like the musicals and westerns, the superhero genre has become stale overtime with same repetitiveness.
Kingpin would have benefited so much from this type of treatment. Just imagine if the lead-in to Born Again had been a Wilson Fisk vehicle like this instead of Hawkeye and Echo...
@ exactly and although he’s a pure evil villain they would’ve humanized him like Oz and show his personal connection with his family such as Vanessa and their son and why he feels he’s in the right because he’s setting up a good future for his family to leave behind even though he’s going about it the wrong way. Similar to the version from the 90’s Spider Man animated series where he feels there’s no turning back from his life of crime as he was practically born and raised in that life style and he can’t profit from anything other than the criminal underworld system but still likes to facade it with a legitimate business such as creating criminology departments to make people feel he’s a person who is in their interests and who they can trust and make himself believe he’s “redeeming” his evil actions by giving back to the community he allows to get robbed from. To showcase his delusional and psychotic mentality similar to Oz from the Penguin.
Sofia was fantastic! Loved the character and such a talented actor!
Fun fact: Lauren LeFranc was a writer on Agents of SHIELD so she already has experience over at Marvel and that should tell you why The Penguin was so great.
GREAT THORIAS UNLIMITED THE PENGUIN 🐧 SERIES REVIEW
So that means Feige should already have her number. Don't sleep on this one, Kevin.
@@thoriasunlimited4053 We'll see how it goes
Great point. She and other writers did excellent work on MAOS but because Feige hated on old Marvel Television I doubt he kept any numbers!
HBO....Disney. Why do ya not know how to add context to almost any of these analyses?
The Penguin. I gave it a shot, and binged the whole season! Wonderful
The Penguin being as good as it is was one of the biggest suprises of the year
Matt Reeves was heavily involved since he worked on the Movie The Batman so it's no surprise The Penguin was great.
They did a great job tying in the movie with the show it didn't feel forced in anyway!
@YycAdrian I know right?!
Lauren LeFranc and Matt Reeves are geniuses. I'm even more excited to see what Matt is cooking for The Batman Part 2.
@@TheBatman39 Oh yeah for sure. I bet Batman will update his suit at some point too.
@MKF30 That would be cool, but I hope they don't deviate too far from the current suit.
I'm 3 episodes in, so I'll be back.
Edit: I just realized it's been years since I've cared about spoilers. Damn, this show is too good.
Oz is the hero of his own story, it just that, to him, everything he does is righteously justified.
In a way, maybe. But it's not like he had good intentions. His motivations were undoubtedly self-serving, though he seemed to fool himself into thinking otherwise.
@@thoriasunlimited4053 Just like Handsome Jack in Borderlands 2.
I think you nailed It: This show understand pretty well that Penguin is evil. Not only It doesn't try to sugarcoat It at any point, but It plays with your empathy towards him. You see a scene with his mom and understands the hard life he had until that point and legit feels for him, next scene you see him burn Marone's family alive and then later mock him.
The penguin was a masterpiece one of the rare lighting in a bottle things that happen like the original Netflix daredevil. I hope they don’t make another season and leave it as a legendary show. It’s shocking something this good is even possible considering the times we are living in
Sofia was a much better-written female antagonist compared to pretty much all of the MCU female antagonists we gotten so far
I’m so glad they didn’t wokefy her whole story nor say that she was a spring chicken either because they still pretty much establish she still is a evil person despite being sympathetic unlike Oswald and has redeeming qualities. There was no excuse her blowing up that neighborhood as there were innocent people who could’ve died. Also she tried cutting Francis’ finger off. Sofia didn’t need to do all that. Yeah she’s mentally unstable due to all that’s happened to her but it still doesn’t justify her actions like those.
Another Kate Bishop enthusiast, I see
She was better than most the female protagonist as well
What happens when you make a smart female character against a stern plot instead of a bunch of stupid male characters to give her a handicap.
Im still team Sofia
I’d argue that Arcane also does a great job at writing complex and compelling characters both hero and villain and everything in between.
The first season yes, the second not so much sadly
Arcane is great at that.
Penguin was phenomenal. The acting was flawless. Everybody played their role so well. Farrell was just perfect as Oz. I rooted for him right until the very end, which is where he became a real villain and I suddenly felt myself turning against him. Vic was the heart of the show. Sophia was dangerous, sexy, unhinged and captivating. This is how you do a tv series.
The Penguin's cast and plot reminds me of the Sopranos tbh.
You're watching a group of genuinely terrible, selfish, people that the show acknowledges as such. But because they have just enough humanising elements & are genuinely interesting you're glued to your seat.
I’m glad they didn’t have Sofia plot line be there as woke propaganda and instead just had her be the victim of being framed by her father after asking too many questions about the women victims that worked in Below which were Carmine’s fling girlfriends he murdered by being too aggressive and covered up to look like suicide, which was similar to how he murdered Sofia’s mother when she tried taking custody over their kids and framed her death like suicide. Sofia being framed by him wasn’t because she’s a woman but because she got on her dad’s wrong side. He even was initially going to give her the position of power over the family, but when she starting talking about her deceased mother he became suspicious of her going to meet with that investigator woman so sent her to Arkham to not risk getting caught for his crimes. By the way, despite Sofia being more sympathetic than Oz, the fact they don’t shy away from the fact that she’s still also a terrible person and even though she was mentally messed up by her mistreatment by her family she still does questionable inexcusable and horrible actions like blowing up a neighborhood of innocent people and also attempting to cut off Francis’ finger is so commendable as they showcase that she’s still a bad person too even though Oswald is overall much worse because at least she has redeemable qualities. If this show was from Disney Marvel they would’ve made her completely a good person who was mistreated because of the patriarchy and for being a woman and her father is a sexist misogynist instead of being just a psychotic crime boss who covers up his own crimes by any means necessary even if it means framing his own kin. Disney Marvel would’ve just made it about sexism crap.
This is EXACTLY my point. When Marvel has a TV show losing to a DC show, they should know something is wrong. They should know they f'ed up big time. Penguin's representation works while Agatha's is pandering cringe. Hell, at this rate, Disney just enjoys sabotaging itself and as far as I'm concerned, they're no better than WB when they cast Ezra Miller as Flash.
Pretty sure the Lois show ft Superman is doing good. Final season. Lots of "reaction" channel stealing the content, i mean "reacting" to it
@ hmm
That's how you do a villain TV show!
This problem of showrunners not acknowledging the evilness, or just even the flaws, of their (not well written) female protagonists has been constant in recent years from Disney
penguin was a fantastic show. Loved the whole cast. Great writing, great direction. I will say only thing that bugged us was the need for him to Oz cobb, His last name is cobblepot. Small thing but wasn;t he named that in the Batman movie. But overall, favorite show of the year. Nice to see a villain be a villain.
Agatha had me convinced narcissists were on the writing staff.
disney is infested with narcissists
U really watch to show or u just watching reviews from grifters?
@@TheJanissary90 U really respect opinions or do you get offended by everything
Disney is predominantly narcissists
@@noobmaster69426 I dont respect half assed lack of knowledge opinions.
This will go down in history as Colin ferralls best performance.
I hope he wins something for it. It’s nuts how much he transformed even his voice and mannerisms it’s nuts
EXCELLENT THORIAS UNLIMITED WORK. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
He has an extensive career.
Farrell and Milioti should both be up for major awards for this show.
itsd nice to see the hardcore critics like something. even critical drinker liked the penguin
I expected the Penguin to be great, but i was wrong as it was absolutely amazing.
Just like with Logan I had to continue to remind myself that this is a comic book show... That is high praise to be able to immerse someone and make them completely forget the source material. Well done.
"We are the hero of our own story." - - Mary McCarthy
I don't like using Gen Z terms (despite me being a Gen Z'er myself), but Lauren LeFranc really cooked with this show!
Excellent comparative analysis! Spot on, Sir!
From marketing to writing, we can feel the strong inspiration from The Sopranos throughout the Penguin series, but it's a good thing to be inspired by the best shows
The reason why the penguin succeeded was because the writers weren't afraid to make him the villain he was supposed to be
The interesting thing is that the characters in Penguin all display a humanity that's just lacking in Agatha. Both Oz and Sofia have scenes where we wonder if they're going to go total villain. Sometimes they do and other times they show mercy. Both characters also have a sense of being an underdog and are avenging wrongs against them. Both characters have moments where they appear human and vulnerable. And there are times where they win us over to their side. It has that element of a tragedy, where the character's flaws overcome them and lead them down a dark path, but you don't outright hate them, you just wish things had gone a bit different. This is what happens when you let skilled writers make characters.
Agatha doesn't have any kind of relatable goal (at least for most of the show). She's just trying to get power for herself. At least in the first 3 episodes I watched (I didn't get farther than that), Agatha never showed any degree of humanity. She seemed like she was just spending too much time trying to be either quirky or bitchy. We never really got any sight of a multidimensional character under there. She doesn't have anything redeeming, she's pretty much just a pure black hat.
You have to have balls to make shows about villans, because shows about villans definitionally go to dark places. And if there's one thing disney lacks at every level, it's balls. Sony now too, apparently.
Colin Farrell did an amazing job. Honestly, Penguin is definitely a great villain well written and had me hooked from the first episode
9:37 true, but I’m pretty sure Kevin Feige in general is allergic to good writers and directors. I mean, he only greenlit Deadpool 3 because he knew it would make the studio a ton of money…. And the rest is pretty much gonna be downhill laziness from there…
I guess this is where DC kicks Marvel's ass. Well, Colin Farrell as Penguin, Yah... Robert Pattinson as Batman, not so much.
Pfft! Joke's on you Thorias cause the truth is... The Penguin, was Agatha all along 😂🤣
Excellent analysis and review.
Hail THORIAS 🇺🇸🖖🏽
While i havent watched either show, i have heard great things about the penguin show, and if it ever gets a physical release, then ill definitely get it, while ill leave Agatha in the deep, fiery depths of the underworld.
I would disagree that Penguin is a B-list character, he's one of the most recognisable and popular of Batman's rogues just behind Joker.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day!
AY UP THORIAS
Interestingly enough, Agatha All Along has been able to gather bigger numbers than The Penguin when it comes to streaming audiences.
Not everyone wants to watch a dark and violent show like The Penguin.
@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09 Absolutely. But I honestly can't see how there are more people willing to watch Agatha All Along when there's so much better content available on Disney+.
Man, I don't understand that at all. Big numbers for AAA just don't compute in my head. Like, what show did these people think they were watching?
@@VALonUA-cam I'd say most of the ppl watching Agatha were predominantly LGBT ppl and Kamala supporters. Hell, Acolyte had more views, so it wasn't surprising. Not low, but not surprising either
Agree 100%! Emmy worthy on every level, the Penguin delivered such a gut-punch my innards are still churning! Hagatha exact opposite
Yeah imagine if right at the end Oz sat on that bench with Vic and was like "You're the king pin now, kid" and then shoots himself. That's how agatha ended all the evil whipped away by a last minute "self sacrifice" because they can't have the bad guy win even in a spin off.
Agatha writers don't understand that self-serving narcissistic monsters are a bad thing because that's probably what they are. They don't see the irony.
fr, most of the ppl who glaze the show were literally Harris supporters
This video turned out to be 20% about penguin and 95% Agatha bashing😂😂
Agatha is a show that needs to be studied on how not to do a TV show on a villain, a hero or any other character.
It's more like 40%-60%, imo
I would say penguin in an A class Batman villain but honestly I just watched the show and that’s probably why I feel that way. Lol
agatha all along didn’t fail💀
Same goes for Loki. Loki should’ve stayed a villain considering the fact that he was fresh from trying to destroy NYC for thanos. And “the mind gem made him evil” retcon bullshit doesn’t make sense because Loki KNEW what thanos was when he went to him. Loki STILL killed thousands of people in NYC, would’ve been more if not for the avengers. And im pretty sure if Loki saw how he was going to die, he wouldn’t just do a 180 and be a good guy. He would try to not make the same mistakes that variant did and who knows, may even manipulate everybody in the TVA to the point where he gets close to attaining this supposed “great power” to use against Thanos himself and the avengers that’s most of the time never shown. I mean, you think there would be an explanation as to how these human beings in the TVA are able to fuck up Loki… in his own fucking show…. Right after he mopped the floor with Captain America, threw Tony stark out a Window, and went toe to toe with Loki….. IT TOOK THE FUCKING HULK TO TAKE HIM DOWN…. The Penguin show is actually consistent with the character and did not stray from what he was suppose to be whatsoever.
Can't wait to see your reaction to Arcane season2, so far it's really good.
1:21 you got the over and over part right
#JusticeforVic
I thought this was a penguin video. 😂
So did it :(
It started as one. Kind of changed into a 'TP > AAA' treatise while I was writing it.
Mate, it ALWAYS starts with the writing. 🤨 Write bad shit, you have bad product. Hollywood has to stop hiring 5 year old writers.
My only issue with the show is Sofia becoming a slight Mary Sue at points in the later half of the season. Show also has a couple suspicious "because the plot says so" moments, but overall an outstanding season and masterfully told story.
But Sofia loses in the end. Even if she has some Mary Sue qualities, (which is debatable) she still gets outfoxed by Oz.
@@thoriasunlimited4053
oof. I wanted that to be the case! That is one of my gripes. She wasn't outfoxed by Oz. Not really. I was hoping the ultimate reveal would have been that Oz had planned everything out long-term for things to shake out like it did. But no, it was Victor's plan that saved Oz's ass from Sofia. Not to mention how they did Sal dirty with the writing. They sidelined Sal for Sofia, and ultimately Sofia was undone at the eleventh hour simply because the story seemed to all at once remember exactly who and what she is: A scared, scarred woman that spent ten years in an insane asylum with no real power or connections. That kind of gave me whiplash.
Penguin sounds like the Sopranos in Gotham.
Great video. I haven’t watched Agatha but you made a very compelling case not to
Hopefully dune prophecy will be good too.
The writers of Agatha try to make Agatha(a villain) a sympathetic character and that came off as disingenuous and Penguin embraces who he is and that showed us how genuine the writers made him.
@@JustTooDamnHonest not true, she’s a killer, more than we knew before. She killed hundreds of other witches
@@JustTooDamnHonest Agatha turned out to have killed hundreds of other witches over several centuries. She’s not the good guy
@@JustTooDamnHonest she turned out to have killed hundreds of other witches over the last centuries to take their powers, so no, she was evil -just not always..
@@JustTooDamnHonest sympathetic? Agatha murdered hundreds of other witches over the last centuries and didn’t care much about the others in this story dying. But Agatha wasn’t all evil, no, but evil enough, I’d say
(She had a soft spot for Wiccan and literally died for him!)
DC finally gets a win over Marvel. Never thought I see the day.
Crime dramas are easier to make than obscure comic book fantasy "comedies". There are very few crime dramas in recent history that are dog water. The Ozarks is to me the Agatha Harkness of crime dramas.
The Penguin falls more into a Scorcese crime drama than a comic book.
The Penguin was fantastic....If James Gunn's Superman is as good as The Batman and The Penguin, DC will officially be at peak level 😂
Aubrey Plaza is hard to hate regardless of her role. Thanks to her I'd totally bang the shadow king.
As good as The Penguin was, hearing everyone call him "Oz Cobb" because the show was too embarrassed to use the character's actual name, will probably make me cringe forever
That was a little weird, but ultimately a minor gripe.
Journos Prob start downplaying Penguins main (Male)characters to try And push their agenda so they can have their feelings not hurt
The villain may be the hero of their own story but that doesn't make them a hero. Big difference.
But the showrunner of Penguin is a woman, aren't we supposed to be toxic about it?
Penguin motivation: To reach the top and be respected and acknowledged by everyone in Gotham.
Agatha motivation: To not die... And then I die.
Agatha’s motivations are absolutely nonsensical. Meanwhile Penguin’s works
Why tf is he even comparing The Penguin and Agatha All Along 😂
Failed? They both did a phenomenal job while both being completely different outside the fact that they are comic book based characters. I get woeful ignorance but it's 2024, comic book adaptations are not inventing new shit, they still follow a formulaic beat. The real differences are the companies, two i constantly keep seeing this from people who misinterpreting this, Agatha was never a hero and the show itself proved it on several occasion.
One clear example is using the son she loved as literal bait to murder unsuspecting women. We gain some sense of sympathy for the character but Agatha was still serve serving towards the end and only small specks of empathy pours out, just like with the Penguin to a degree. I think ya doing a disservice juxtaposing these two things together. The witches journey can be of healing but it typically is one of loss and survival, it's shown and stated throughout the series.
Dunno, I turned this stuff off when I realized that it was related to that terrible Batman movie. Series are such trash nowadays that people basically compete whose mountain of turds is "better"
The penguin show is such a interesting story and very interesting 🧐 in my opinion
Writers are the issue in these series and movies...and there so many bad ones..we gotta appreciate the good ones when they come around..
This guy doesnt watch to Agatha after 3 episodes or he simply lying.Guys I dont wanna spoil to show go watch to show and u decide.People who agreed with him you mostly didnt even watch to show bc "show is woke".And u are just lying here.Really Agatha isnt a bad guy?Main event of the show was her scheme what are you smoking?Her loving her son doesnt change to fact she is bad woman manupilating and killing women for 3 centuries.Listen ur own video u keep contradicting with urself.
Somehow, I have the ugly sneaking suspicion it won't be as enjoyable as 'Gotham', that I'm going to watch the show and conclude "The was it-?"
Bro, it's way better than Gotham. There is no comparison.
@@thoriasunlimited4053 K', you say that; but how can I trust you?
You [and everyone else...] gave a wildly ringing endorsement of TF0, but then I actually watched that movie for myself... and I'm seriously wondering if there was a different movie with the same title that everyone but me saw [the movie was bad. I have no idea why its getting the praise that its getting]
And now, you telling me that its better than 'Gotham' [one of the few DC shows I actually enjoyed] _really_ makes me raise an eyebrow
@@TorridPrime217Well, considering Gotham feels like a horrible nostalgia critic skit with cheap halloween costumes and hammy acting, i can say you are safe, bro. Gotham sucks, I'm sorry, i hated that show with a passion. That show was one of the other reasons why I never liked penguin as a villain before. I don't care about a twink bully Maguire
@@JohnnyJustice777 Ironically; what you said feels like a Nostalgia Critic take, which makes me inclined not to trust what you have to say.
That, and Gotham is one of the few DCLA shows that I actually like
Good review and comparison. I watched one episode of Agatha and quit. I had no interest in a show about nothing but evil villains, so passed on Penguin. I doubt thats going to change. I need more shows like StarTrek Lower Decks. Nothing big going on, nothing earth shattering, its just fun to watch.
These days, with whats on TV, its far more entertaining to watch your reviews of shows than it is to watch the shows. Thanks for doing this.
Watch arcane season 2
the major difference is that the writers for Penguin had a story to tell
while the writers for Agatha had to produce content slop to shovel on Disney+
Pretty much, yeah.
I honestly don't see the appeal. Yeah Penguin is evil, but this really feels like a regular Mobster movie. You could call it something other than Penguin and it wouldn't change much.
You’re saying the same argument that Joker 1 wasn’t a real Joker movie. The whole point is they are trying to not make it the same tired out formulaic thing every other comic book adaptation has been. Now there’s examples of doing it wrong, like Joker: Folie a Deux, but for the most part making movies like Joker, Logan, The Batman, that are comic book based but aren’t really generic comic book films isn’t a bad thing because it does something unique instead of the tiresome MCU crap. We want experimentation as long as it’s still good quality. The same old same old gets tiresome. Bright colorful and overly comedic superhero movies are played out. Give audiences variety.
@@ParkerCS2disagree. What he said is right.
@@SirRorschachJack so you want everything to be formulaic trash like the MCU?! You like portal in the sky crap?! You like cringe quips and cgi fights?! Ok fine go back to marvel then.
@@ParkerCS2 Joker 1 wasn't a real Joker movie either honestly. Both Penguin and Joker were both well-written and quality stuff, but they were barely comic book movies. Penguin could have just been any mobster show and Joker was basically a psychological thriller. Both feel like the DC comics IP was slapped on them and they could have essentially just been standalone projects and not much would have changed. In fact, it felt like someone had written a standalone movie and then later in production they decided to just modify the script a bit to add some DC comics references.
@@taragnorexcept penguin was partly based on a comic. Just read pain and prejudice comics. Also, they mailed the character of penguin
Was the poster for Agatha supposed to make the main character look like a gay man?
I actually am being serious, that literally doesn't look like the woman in the show...
Maybe? I mean, pretty much every character in that show was gay, so it wouldn't surprise me.
I love the penguin show. I had just one problem with it...... The Heavy Rain plot lol I was yelling god please don't make it so they can't get out and drown.
They wanted Agatha to be LGBTQ/Girl Power, fan fic. That was the ENTIRE point. When Hollyweird introduces “Gay” or “Girl Boss” that becomes the WHOLE point. And that’s why those stories flop. They aren’t good.
✡🕎✡🕎✡🕎✡🕎✡🕎✡🕎✡
Whuuuuuh?
The difference is, Marvel wants you to like Agatha because she’s a woman. DC is giving you permission to like, hate, or vacillate on Oz Cobb despite his sex or anything he does.
Agatha was great. Penguin was really good too.
I usually agree with you but Agatha didn’t fail -it was good, and sets up a lot of stories.
What stories are those then? Because Agatha isn't good at all and it didn't set up jack sh*t for nothing about it made sense for it was basically magic can do anything(that is a very clear sign that the writers do not know of the magic system or how to make their magic make sense) and that has been a problem ever since Dr. Strange came in.
Well I'm glad you enjoyed it, but you're just simply wrong.
@ well, I wanna say ‘let’s agree to disagree’ but you haven’t given me that grace since I’m ’simply wrong’ 💁♀️
@@nathanieldiaz5254 If he is wrong then why isn't anyone talking about it after it end? No usually if something is as popular as someone claims it to be then there would be buzz about it on multiple sites, channels and whatnot.
But after Agatha ended there hasn't been a single piece of fanfare.
@@JustTooDamnHonest Are you sure you know which side you're part of? Cause I think you meant to reply to the other guy.
I don't know, comparing Agatha to Penguin is kind of unfair to Agatha. They may have some overlapping themes, but they are very different (everything).
Agatha may be poorly written MCU schlock, but that is all it was meant to be and the Agatha writers succeeded with what they set out to accomplish with it. 🤷♂
I agree they succeeded at making a boring, poorly paced, sloppy written show more worried about DEI points then crafting a captivating story. Meanwhile The Penguin in comparison is more worried about telling a story that makes you wanna see what happens next.
What is it that you think Agatha succeeded at accomplishing?
@@taragnor your not gonna get a good answer from this person.
Can you give one positive review without tying it to a Disney whining session? Im out dude. This channel is lame predetermined reviews and angry period weeks. Seek therapy for your obsession with Disney.
Okay, so you have looked through his playlist, right? He clearly does review other works besides Disney (The Crow, Joker 2, the entire series of Batwoman, new Alien movie, Velma, I keep going). The thing is Disney is just the most prevalent with churning out crap and one of the more popular things with his audience. And even so, why wouldn't he? Disney was known for producing quality but it just keeps churning out agenda driven drivel. I'd be pissed and rant reviewing about it too.
Well sorry for pissing you off because Disney is the one who treats you like morons and excepts you to consume product without any thought on why Agatha sucks and The Penguin didn't. If Agatha is the only good thing here then the M-SHE-U is dead(since the MCU ended after Endgame).
@@ugan2 Exactly and channels like his do all of this is because we loved Disney and seeing it get destroy by woke nutjobs is not ok and on top of that they have taken away the art aspect of entertainment an turned it into propaganda.
@ugan2 apathy is the best weapon for crap. The disney thing is a crutch he needs at this point. I am just out on this shit. It shouldnt disrupt your day
@JustTooDamnHonest I agree. Why sit around and beat a dead horse? Unless its a crutch and personally therapeutic. Which is all this is at this point. Apathy is the best weapon, not whining
Agatha didn't fail, it wasn't superior like Penguin but it was a decent show. It wasn't utter garbage like The Acolyte. It just wasn't your type of show.
My guess is that despite all else Disney has to appear kid-friendly so they can't go to the depths that HBO can.
I don't buy that as an excuse. You can be kid-friendly and still be honest about what a horrible person your lead character is.