Winning in a game as in P2W, whether it's PvP or PvE, means gaining any advantage or progress through spending real money, do you agree with this and if not, let me know why!
i get where youre coming from saying its still p2w in a pve game but as far as im concerned i couldnt give less f*cks if some guy spends his life savings on a pve game since it doesnt affect me personally. in a pvp game however i would feel pressured to do the same to stay on the same level since otherwise i would get assfisted all day. imo p2w in pve games is basically "pay more to play less". the entire identity of a game like this is to spend time grinding away for those weapons, characters and upgrade materials. if you wanna buy that cool but then dont complain if youre bored after 3 days cause theres nothing else to do than grind for those exact things you just bought for cash.
i love winning while i p2w, actively avoiding playing the game and spending money for that is indeed unfair towards other players in direct comparrison. making a 5 dollar purchase to be able to own all current descendants is malicious practice too, i completely agree
So warframe is pay2win, any game where trade is allowed is P2W ? because if the games is good and the company dont sell stuff , players will create a market to sell itens . The real question is can you have fun without using money and the answer is yes. P2W is not always bad.
Absolutely this game is P2W; it may be "less" P2W than some games, but the degree is irrelevant to all those who'd rather not support the predatory business models that are ruining the industry and driving out creativity, innovation, and affordability across the entire market space. You should do one of these on Project Gorgon! Its monetization is in a weird state of "currently predatory af, but it would actually be both better AND more profitable if it were otherwise" - and if that idea got enough traction to reach the devs, it could actually be a great game.
Nice video, I agree what you said. Speaking about character ustomization and paint. I would add that you can only use it once in one armor or helmet. Then you have to buy the same thing again. Besides, you can't customize the default skins, you have to purchase a skin from the cash shop. For me, the price for the cash shop items in general is way to high. An important factor aswell is that the players are not able to trade with each other.
$100? I thought it was $60 just for the skin and the ultimate descendant. I came from warframe, so seeing $60 for the better version and skin vs. a $50 package for just a weapon seems to be way better. Also, $80 dollars for added icons and the actual warframe itself. Its also another 50 for the accessories (cosmetice). One thing that I don't like from descendant is the energy activator. 500 caliber for more mod slots is crazy!
To unlock ultimate characters fastrer u have to invest everyting into one character and kill most Hard bosses if Hard bossing becomes fairly easy you can grind for everything. My biggest issue is that if i wanna keep playing and get all the characters i should pay real money to get fucking slots for the characters which is the stupidest thing. .
you forgot about the paints. you cant use the paints on base descendants you need a skin to use paint, which was not the case when i was playing in the CB where you could use it on your base descendant, and also the paint is now a one time use, in CB you got it once and you could reuse it as many times as you wanted like warframes color palette. So they literally removed features that existed to try and force others to buy
just stop playing, Nexon used this as a cash grab for them, and it worked, i see so many ult bunnies and maid outfits, these people should never be able to swipe a credit card. supporting a lying, scamming fined twice company for lying about microtransactions/rng, is the definition of fucking stupid. the entire game is designed around "hitting a wall, (employed people will say: well i make money, i'll just pay instead of grinding for this shit)." then you hit a wall again, pay again, rinse and repeat just because you have a paycheck and can afford it. worst monetization of f2p games aside from gacha games.
The worst is that you have to pay to have more characters like What the fuck will a free to play player do if their only goal is to grind out more characters? They just gonna dip. .
I am having a hard time playing it anymore, I completed everything in the game. But I am having trouble justifying going on any further, in example to get forma is a massive pain in the ass. The cost of buying a forma in the in-game store is 20 times that of Warframe. In Warframe, to farm components to make forma is passive. Nexon, makes it very hard, so you will go buy it. IMHO, the monetization system will kill the game.
Man.. just what happened to 60$ game that has a great 30h campaign, 50+ side quests, 100+ dungeons, loot grind with random drop rates.. ? Just a complete fun game for 60$? Something like the old borderlands? It's breaking my heart seeing these "Free-to-play" games with their battle passes and stupid cosmetics.. the gaming industry is ruined forever. It really is the time to quit playing.
Don't forget the Caliber to instant Skip the nonesense Waiting which is the main stage in the Game. as long as ppl go along with those predatory tactics games like this will always surface. we have to put an end to this. it is up to us to say no and stop this nonsense. Battle Passes nor Virtual Ingame Currency nor Dailys or Shops shouldn't be within a Game. not even Seasons. players who spend money on this game even mock those who can't or havent spend money. yeah you can clearly see the gap.
It's a PvE game so I couldn't care less if people pay to upgrade their characters. In fact, I'd love to have them on my team haha. Everything else in the shop is super predatory though. I'm really enjoying the game though so I hope they improve things over time.
People decided they are okay with pay-to-win at least 15 years before this game came out. Look at competition like Destiny the more pay-to-win it gets the more players come. There probably isn't going to be a "purely cosmetic" MMO or "live service" game again (paid or free-to-play) at least for more than a few weeks after launch.
If anyone here already hasnt tried Warframe you should its alot more player friendly in terms of the monetization as long as you learn the game first as it too has some noob traps when it comes to it. But overall I've played it alot over the years and i dont feel scammed when i buy the prime access pack every 3 months for so as it is well worth it in terms of value as it also includes a very good amount of premium currency (which can be obtained in game via the trading system) comparable to the price people are charging for in-game items (like more "Ultimate" Characters). No game will ever be perfect as the whole point of games/games as a service is to turn a profit, but i played the first descendant for 6 hours and wrote it off as a good looking (unreal engine duh) copy of warframe with a little of destiny sprinkled in.
might as well mention the limited slots for frames and weapons which will force you to spend 100+ dollars by now. yes you can trade currency but if you have done that you know how tedious and annoying it is
people need to stop complaining about game being paid to progress when bungie is making those big numbers for years while scamming their audience and gacha game being so popular, peoples like pay to win and don't care about predatory system that much and if you think about it, if you don't like pay to win and you don't want to pay then you are not targeted by the market in the first place, the game is literally a f2p non competitive with pay to progress and skin, let peoples pay too win and enjoy grinding if it is you thing
The way nexon does things is the following, they launch the game with minimal to acceptable microtranzactions to lure you in, after 6-10 months you are hooked into the game, after this they add more stuff that will make the power gap obvious and the game P2W. Good luck to you all!
Can lvl 40 a character in 2 hours, Can grind a new character in around 4-6 hours max, Late game you can grind the kaiper you need to upgrade modules by the bucket load (100k an hour), gold is not an important resource you gain more than you can ever spend. Only terrible thing about this games monetisation is the cosmetic/paint system, The rest is easily farmed and the complaints are people huffing undiluted copium and have THE biggest skill Issue. I have done Everything F2P and completed the story in 3 days and unlocked 5 characters and got insane modules.
@@Saitama-wh6bg For those that dont require hard difficulty rewards or vaults yeah 4-6 hours. Valby, Enzo, Sharen, Blair and Freyna i farmed each in a few hours
@@Saitama-wh6bg You'd be wrong, Valby, Freyna and Blair where everywhere early release because people just outright bought them. Regardless ults arent a bad grind once your gear and modules are good enough, Just gated by having to finish the story mostly
I watched my roommate sit down and max level Ajax without spending a single dollar on anything, and he did it in three days. Nexon will do what Nexon does, but people pretending that the speed in which people can level by paying, and not paying, is dramatically exaggerated.
It is worth noting that everyone also got free boosts of XP, gold and shards in the first days because of server issues, so that leveling process could have taken a bit longer. Either way, I believe the grindy stuff is the modules and end game
Its hugely exaggerated, Play sterile lands special operation and you go from lvl 1-40 in less than 2 hours. Just new game and grind spots aren't widely known
On hard mode unlocking stuff is easy just upgrade sharon a little and presto u got the whole game. I can rn farm everything in a week were i am at in the game all i purchased was the battle pass and used its buffs. Also leveling in the late game is instant and u do it constantly to mod things. Also this is the same as warframe the late game trivializes things
@Mosleso oh I came to the conclusion from seeing several videos but yours is the final nail in coffin. I feel like shortcuts ruin games because even if you don't use them, other players will, and the lingering seed that get planted in your head that you can just pay some money and save your time. The journey to get the gear IS the experience in these kind of games not having them...IMO
To me it doesn't really matter, if someone wants to swipe and take the grind a faway its up to them, if I wanna spend time and grind for it it's up to me. It is p2w in the way of he will certainly safe time but at the same time what I consider fun he takes away eith swiping. Aslong as the game won't be in the state of, everyone has better gear cuz swipe so I can't find a group to play anymore, it doesn't matter.
You’re paying to win against bots…not players. Who cares if someone else skipped the grind? That would have no affect on you or your gameplay experience whatsoever. People have to understand that games can’t grow like destiny or war frame has without money and if you don’t like the monetization of a certain game that much, simply just don’t play it. I also think it’s funny how people try to shame and guilt trip players for spending their hard earned money on what they want just because THEY think that certain items are “predatory” or too expensive. They set the prices that way for a reason, because there’s obviously a market for it. If you can’t afford it, grind for it. If you don’t wanna grind for it, this game and others like it are not for you.
Pvp does not matter if it's included or not, a PVE game can be P2w IF things are specifically made extremly hard or frustrating to earn to push people to purchase things, so the "No pvp" argument does not apply. For instance, In the first descendants, You can only craft 5 items at a time, this is extremly predatory to push people to rush things when they need to craft more important things.
grindy yes . bad no 1 . its pve only 2. you can get the ultimate decedents easy or pay alot the weird part is its super easy to farm them for free , its warframe if you dont like warframe you wont like this this system is fine its pay to lose you can get anything in game for free that people can buy
I'm enjoying the game so far. But it would be interesting once the 7 days boost on everything ended. Then, we'll see if everyone's positive thoughts will still be the same. I wouldn't see it being easy once it's done
If that's what you took out of it then you missed the point entirely. The point is that the game becomes very grindy and the most efficient way to expedite the grind is to pay money. The fact that this exists is sad but it's Nexon so it's to be expected.
@@artemkoropotkin3047 I've progressed through the entire main story and it doesn't even get grindy until you unlock hardmode. Some of components like energy activators are literally handed to you for certain quests. I still haven't spent a single dime on the game and I'm enjoying the grind and satisfaction of getting new stuff
Winning in a game as in P2W, whether it's PvP or PvE, means gaining any advantage or progress through spending real money, do you agree with this and if not, let me know why!
i get where youre coming from saying its still p2w in a pve game but as far as im concerned i couldnt give less f*cks if some guy spends his life savings on a pve game since it doesnt affect me personally. in a pvp game however i would feel pressured to do the same to stay on the same level since otherwise i would get assfisted all day.
imo p2w in pve games is basically "pay more to play less". the entire identity of a game like this is to spend time grinding away for those weapons, characters and upgrade materials. if you wanna buy that cool but then dont complain if youre bored after 3 days cause theres nothing else to do than grind for those exact things you just bought for cash.
i love winning while i p2w, actively avoiding playing the game and spending money for that is indeed unfair towards other players in direct comparrison. making a 5 dollar purchase to be able to own all current descendants is malicious practice too, i completely agree
So warframe is pay2win, any game where trade is allowed is P2W ? because if the games is good and the company dont sell stuff , players will create a market to sell itens . The real question is can you have fun without using money and the answer is yes. P2W is not always bad.
Absolutely this game is P2W; it may be "less" P2W than some games, but the degree is irrelevant to all those who'd rather not support the predatory business models that are ruining the industry and driving out creativity, innovation, and affordability across the entire market space. You should do one of these on Project Gorgon! Its monetization is in a weird state of "currently predatory af, but it would actually be both better AND more profitable if it were otherwise" - and if that idea got enough traction to reach the devs, it could actually be a great game.
Well said sir. Thanks for the suggestion I will look into it!
Nice video, I agree what you said.
Speaking about character ustomization and paint. I would add that you can only use it once in one armor or helmet. Then you have to buy the same thing again. Besides, you can't customize the default skins, you have to purchase a skin from the cash shop. For me, the price for the cash shop items in general is way to high.
An important factor aswell is that the players are not able to trade with each other.
Thank you for your comment man! Yeah I suppose Warframe has this upperhand where players can trade with eachother there but not in this game.
its nexon... thats all you need to know
It's nexon, 100$ ultimate skins is just the beginning
It's pretty much the same thing Warframe does, for about $20 more. I hoping it remains low impact outside of personal play, like with Warframe
$100? I thought it was $60 just for the skin and the ultimate descendant. I came from warframe, so seeing $60 for the better version and skin vs. a $50 package for just a weapon seems to be way better. Also, $80 dollars for added icons and the actual warframe itself. Its also
another 50 for the accessories (cosmetice). One thing that I don't like from descendant is the energy activator. 500 caliber for more mod slots is crazy!
@@Novanity999-q9k i think it's cause if the converted currency
one word "gley"... unlocking her is hell...
To unlock ultimate characters fastrer u have to invest everyting into one character and kill most Hard bosses if Hard bossing becomes fairly easy you can grind for everything. My biggest issue is that if i wanna keep playing and get all the characters i should pay real money to get fucking slots for the characters which is the stupidest thing. .
you forgot about the paints. you cant use the paints on base descendants you need a skin to use paint, which was not the case when i was playing in the CB where you could use it on your base descendant, and also the paint is now a one time use, in CB you got it once and you could reuse it as many times as you wanted like warframes color palette. So they literally removed features that existed to try and force others to buy
just stop playing, Nexon used this as a cash grab for them, and it worked, i see so many ult bunnies and maid outfits, these people should never be able to swipe a credit card.
supporting a lying, scamming fined twice company for lying about microtransactions/rng, is the definition of fucking stupid.
the entire game is designed around "hitting a wall, (employed people will say: well i make money, i'll just pay instead of grinding for this shit)." then you hit a wall again, pay again, rinse and repeat just because you have a paycheck and can afford it.
worst monetization of f2p games aside from gacha games.
Uh I hate predatory prices in games like this
Yeah it sucks man.
Just play the game
They can price what ever they want. If they want my money it needs to be with in reason.
The worst is that you have to pay to have more characters like What the fuck will a free to play player do if their only goal is to grind out more characters? They just gonna dip. .
In the past I put in SO much time into Maple story which taught me all I needed to know about Nexon 😅
I am having a hard time playing it anymore, I completed everything in the game. But I am having trouble justifying going on any further, in example to get forma is a massive pain in the ass. The cost of buying a forma in the in-game store is 20 times that of Warframe. In Warframe, to farm components to make forma is passive. Nexon, makes it very hard, so you will go buy it. IMHO, the monetization system will kill the game.
Man.. just what happened to 60$ game that has a great 30h campaign, 50+ side quests, 100+ dungeons, loot grind with random drop rates.. ? Just a complete fun game for 60$? Something like the old borderlands? It's breaking my heart seeing these "Free-to-play" games with their battle passes and stupid cosmetics.. the gaming industry is ruined forever. It really is the time to quit playing.
It's unfortunate friend. That's why some of us go back to playing older games.
Don't forget the Caliber to instant Skip the nonesense Waiting which is the main stage in the Game. as long as ppl go along with those predatory tactics games like this will always surface. we have to put an end to this. it is up to us to say no and stop this nonsense. Battle Passes nor Virtual Ingame Currency nor Dailys or Shops shouldn't be within a Game. not even Seasons. players who spend money on this game even mock those who can't or havent spend money. yeah you can clearly see the gap.
It's a PvE game so I couldn't care less if people pay to upgrade their characters. In fact, I'd love to have them on my team haha. Everything else in the shop is super predatory though. I'm really enjoying the game though so I hope they improve things over time.
People decided they are okay with pay-to-win at least 15 years before this game came out. Look at competition like Destiny the more pay-to-win it gets the more players come. There probably isn't going to be a "purely cosmetic" MMO or "live service" game again (paid or free-to-play) at least for more than a few weeks after launch.
If anyone here already hasnt tried Warframe you should its alot more player friendly in terms of the monetization as long as you learn the game first as it too has some noob traps when it comes to it. But overall I've played it alot over the years and i dont feel scammed when i buy the prime access pack every 3 months for so as it is well worth it in terms of value as it also includes a very good amount of premium currency (which can be obtained in game via the trading system) comparable to the price people are charging for in-game items (like more "Ultimate" Characters). No game will ever be perfect as the whole point of games/games as a service is to turn a profit, but i played the first descendant for 6 hours and wrote it off as a good looking (unreal engine duh) copy of warframe with a little of destiny sprinkled in.
the game is almost the same except that the market is carried by existing players for years but at the core the two games are predatory
might as well mention the limited slots for frames and weapons which will force you to spend 100+ dollars by now. yes you can trade currency but if you have done that you know how tedious and annoying it is
Its by far not the worst since its f2p. The 90 dollar games with the same or even worse mtx systems are the worst.
Yeah its not the worst but still bad.
people need to stop complaining about game being paid to progress when bungie is making those big numbers for years while scamming their audience and gacha game being so popular, peoples like pay to win and don't care about predatory system that much and if you think about it, if you don't like pay to win and you don't want to pay then you are not targeted by the market in the first place, the game is literally a f2p non competitive with pay to progress and skin, let peoples pay too win and enjoy grinding if it is you thing
The way nexon does things is the following, they launch the game with minimal to acceptable microtranzactions to lure you in, after 6-10 months you are hooked into the game, after this they add more stuff that will make the power gap obvious and the game P2W.
Good luck to you all!
Can lvl 40 a character in 2 hours, Can grind a new character in around 4-6 hours max, Late game you can grind the kaiper you need to upgrade modules by the bucket load (100k an hour), gold is not an important resource you gain more than you can ever spend. Only terrible thing about this games monetisation is the cosmetic/paint system, The rest is easily farmed and the complaints are people huffing undiluted copium and have THE biggest skill Issue. I have done Everything F2P and completed the story in 3 days and unlocked 5 characters and got insane modules.
Farming a character takes 4-6 hours? Wow, you're delusional
@@Saitama-wh6bg For those that dont require hard difficulty rewards or vaults yeah 4-6 hours. Valby, Enzo, Sharen, Blair and Freyna i farmed each in a few hours
I feel like most people don't care about non ultimate descendants
@@Saitama-wh6bg You'd be wrong, Valby, Freyna and Blair where everywhere early release because people just outright bought them. Regardless ults arent a bad grind once your gear and modules are good enough, Just gated by having to finish the story mostly
@@syn1812 yea bc non ults are actually reasonably priced lmao
This is Warframe monetization, without player trade...
I have more fun on this game than warframe
But i think they mentioned they will add trade
Yeah but player trade lets you get premium currency for free if u grind
@@Boboire bro it's NEXON
Exactly but somehow this is being overlooked by everyone.
I watched my roommate sit down and max level Ajax without spending a single dollar on anything, and he did it in three days. Nexon will do what Nexon does, but people pretending that the speed in which people can level by paying, and not paying, is dramatically exaggerated.
It is worth noting that everyone also got free boosts of XP, gold and shards in the first days because of server issues, so that leveling process could have taken a bit longer. Either way, I believe the grindy stuff is the modules and end game
Its hugely exaggerated, Play sterile lands special operation and you go from lvl 1-40 in less than 2 hours. Just new game and grind spots aren't widely known
Diablo:Immortal is worse... isnt it? 🤪
On hard mode unlocking stuff is easy just upgrade sharon a little and presto u got the whole game. I can rn farm everything in a week were i am at in the game all i purchased was the battle pass and used its buffs. Also leveling in the late game is instant and u do it constantly to mod things. Also this is the same as warframe the late game trivializes things
Very good informative vid thanks, I will most certainly not be getting this game
Thanks for your comment man, you can still play it for free and try it out much like many others are doing but yeah to each their own my friend
@Mosleso oh I came to the conclusion from seeing several videos but yours is the final nail in coffin. I feel like shortcuts ruin games because even if you don't use them, other players will, and the lingering seed that get planted in your head that you can just pay some money and save your time. The journey to get the gear IS the experience in these kind of games not having them...IMO
To me it doesn't really matter, if someone wants to swipe and take the grind a faway its up to them, if I wanna spend time and grind for it it's up to me.
It is p2w in the way of he will certainly safe time but at the same time what I consider fun he takes away eith swiping.
Aslong as the game won't be in the state of, everyone has better gear cuz swipe so I can't find a group to play anymore, it doesn't matter.
You’re paying to win against bots…not players. Who cares if someone else skipped the grind? That would have no affect on you or your gameplay experience whatsoever. People have to understand that games can’t grow like destiny or war frame has without money and if you don’t like the monetization of a certain game that much, simply just don’t play it. I also think it’s funny how people try to shame and guilt trip players for spending their hard earned money on what they want just because THEY think that certain items are “predatory” or too expensive. They set the prices that way for a reason, because there’s obviously a market for it. If you can’t afford it, grind for it. If you don’t wanna grind for it, this game and others like it are not for you.
if theres Nexon it'll be p2w for sure
Yea man seems to always be the case for Nexon.
It’s pve lil bro lol
its a pve game 0 pvp
Pvp does not matter if it's included or not, a PVE game can be P2w IF things are specifically made extremly hard or frustrating to earn to push people to purchase things, so the "No pvp" argument does not apply.
For instance, In the first descendants, You can only craft 5 items at a time, this is extremly predatory to push people to rush things when they need to craft more important things.
Nah this is nothing compare to gacha game..
grindy yes . bad no 1 . its pve only 2. you can get the ultimate decedents easy or pay alot the weird part is its super easy to farm them for free , its warframe if you dont like warframe you wont like this this system is fine its pay to lose you can get anything in game for free that people can buy
I'm enjoying the game so far. But it would be interesting once the 7 days boost on everything ended. Then, we'll see if everyone's positive thoughts will still be the same. I wouldn't see it being easy once it's done
Guys play Warframe it’s way better and you don’t need money to unlock anything
The most boring game ever....
this whole video is just complaining about how a grindy game turns out to be grindy lmfao
If that's what you took out of it then you missed the point entirely.
The point is that the game becomes very grindy and the most efficient way to expedite the grind is to pay money. The fact that this exists is sad but it's Nexon so it's to be expected.
@@artemkoropotkin3047 so, the same issue that most games already has.
@@artemkoropotkin3047 I've progressed through the entire main story and it doesn't even get grindy until you unlock hardmode. Some of components like energy activators are literally handed to you for certain quests. I still haven't spent a single dime on the game and I'm enjoying the grind and satisfaction of getting new stuff
Basically the same as warframe
how so? In WF you can get thousands of plat without spending real money