Not Fearing Others' Faith Journeys - A Conversation with Valerie Hamaker
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2024
- This week, we’re thrilled to welcome therapist and podcaster Valerie Hamaker. In his book Falling Upward, Franciscan priest Richard Rohr uses the metaphor of a container to elaborate on what he calls “the two halves of life.” The first half of life, he says, is for building the structure of the container; the second is for filling it and sharing from it. This concept has been foundational for us in our faith journey over the last 10 years, and today with Valerie, we delved into how everyone’s faith evolves over time, the necessity of structure and identity in early faith development, and the importance of embracing complexity, depth, and paradox as we grow.
One of the tricky parts about faith evolution is that not everyone’s faith evolves in the same way; and because so many of us have built our lives on or around our faith, it can be hard when we see loved ones’ and family members’ beliefs diverge significantly from our own, in any direction. This is a real area of expertise for Valerie in her own practice, and we found her insights on managing complex relationships and spiritual growth super helpful-she helped us see that genuine curiosity can be crucial in navigating complex conversations around beliefs, and explained why we can, and should, let go of any belief that engenders fear.
Valerie is a licensed therapist specializing in marriage and couples work. She owns a private counseling practice in Kansas City, Missouri, and is the host of the Latter Day Struggles Podcast, where she helps Latter-Day Saints understand and navigate their spiritual growth.
This conversation is packed with practical advice for anyone experiencing or supporting others through faith transitions. We hope you find Valerie's insights as enlightening and encouraging as we did. And with that, we’ll jump right into this conversation with Valerie Hamaker.
Note: the research Valerie refers to in this interview was done by Liz Macdonald.
Faith is like a little seed. If planted it will grow 😍. Thank you for all you are doing with this channel 🙏
This was a powerful episode. My wife and I really benefited from it as we have a couple of free spirits among our children. I would love to have a transcript of this, but it doesn't appear to be offered. Thanks for your thought provoking and uplifting work.
Thank you for this honest, loving, expansive conversation that promotes connection and inclusion. We need more of this 🤍
I hope you are proud of yourselves for having made a grown man cry. I love each of you.
This is an excellent episode, I think Valerie is spot on. Anything that creates fear is not of God. I would love to see another episode with Valerie addressing when husband and wife are in a different space with the church.
Wonderful teachings! I would add that before completely abandoning theology that causes discomfort, consider revisiting it with a scholar's mind and a child's curiosity. Are we over or underemphasizing something?What lenses we are using to view the doctrine and how we are interpreting it? What does a holistic reading of the scriptures, prophets, and enlightened commentaries say on the matter? Can we harmonize this with both love and logic? In this way, I've discovered more enriching ways to approach the theology.
This was a wonderful episode.
Love that doesn’t try to change you changes you - very profound
There’s a lot to appreciate here, but there’s one thing that makes me uneasy.
A couplet that resonates with me is, “If it’s not loving, it’s not true. And if it’s not true, it’s not loving.”
What sometimes makes me uneasy about conversations like this is that the first half of this couplet is hammered relentlessly, and the second half is ignored. One example is the frequent tendency (including in this episode) to recite the “bear, mourn, and comfort” elements of Alma’s baptismal invitation, and conveniently ignore the “stand as witnesses at all times” part.
What if, as parents, as grandparents, as teachers, or as church leaders, we talked about and taught the "Why."
Why live the gospel. Why do I believe? Why does living within the boundaries (commandments) that God sets work in my life. What experiences have I had, which can be shared with our families and friends, that have gotten me in this place of deep belief, and why are they so important to me?
As Father Richard has said, each of will have an experience(s) that can transform us, and then we begin living our second half of life. But quite often, if we don't ever dig deep enough to figure out the "why" of it all, our second half may just be like our first half. But way too often, in the church, we just continue to repeat the same things and never experience the depth...and the simplicity...of the gospel.
I had similar thoughts along the lines of focusing on "the why." I think in the past the church was more prescriptive and that there has been a shift towards encouraging members to be more proactive in our own spiritual growth. I think this approach is resulting in some sifting.
Regarding the mention of fear regarding families being divided in different kingdoms of glory, perhaps someone can correct me or clarify the doctrine, if there is one, regarding eternal progression.
I believe that a loving Heavenly Father will give each of us every opportunity to progress as much as we desire, even if that means progressing from one kingdom to another. I don't know if there is a definitive teaching about this though.
When a loved one passes away, of course, it is devastating, but I think the eternal perspective makes that separation much easier for us to deal with. Similarly, I would be devastated if one of my children chose to leave the gospel teachings that have brought me such peace and joy, but I would hope to feel a measure of comfort in the sealing bond that we share and in the belief that we could be together eternally if they desired that.
I really appreciated this episode and the advice to step away from or let go of things that feel psychologically harmful.
Another podcast's focus on Korihor and the Zoramites seemed to (me to) really emphasize doctrinal purity. There are certainly blessings that come with "unity in Christ," but I also feel this mentality can lead to a culture that prioritizes being "defenders of the faith" over its members and their diverse gifts and thoughts.
Is there an FM episode that takes on this subject?
Hi Doug, thanks for your comment and insight! The FM episode “Faith’s Dance with Doubt” with Brian McLaren touched on that question. And the idea of “faith expressing itself in love” over “faith expressing itself as correct beliefs” is the thesis of Brian’s book, Faith After Doubt. I bet you’d love the book!
-Tim