Tsun the guardian of Soverngarde said, "The (current) Nords (Stormcloak vs Imperials Era) may have forgotten their Forefathers (Ancestral Ancient Nords) respect for the Clever Craft (Magic). Here in Shor's house, we honor it still... Many of your comrades (mages) throng this hall."
It pretty much sums it up. One of the most powerful and learned mages in the history of Tamriel was a Nord, Shalidor, founder of the College of Winterhold and allegedly builder of the entire city that would later become the capitol of Skyrim. Thu'um is an ancient form of magic natural to Dragons and gifted to Nords by the Gods. Alchemy, the art and science of making potions and poisons, is just as magical as casting a fireball or summoning an Atronach. In TES magic isn't just in everything. Magic IS EVERYTHING. For someone in that universe to say they hate magic is like them saying they hate themselves.
@Wirr Ling you mean "hello boring ass spells that cannot be used to manipulate or logic around in game mechanics." Breaking games is generally not a desirable feature but when such broken mechanics are taken and instead made a part of the game and used to accentuate the world, then you know you have a true masterpiece in your hands.
+Pewee Deedee Has nothing to do w/ levitation, m8. Has everything to do with game designers not wanting to spend the time adding another layer to the game to make levitation a meaningful feature in it. Also be wary of just believing everything FudgeMuppet says. This video is basically blowing everything out of proportion.
@@AdventurerOfOblivion From a lore stand point it makes sense, you can see effects from ES 4 in ES 5 and I'm sure we'll see more in ES 6. What you're saying is fine, in our world. However this is from a Lore standpoint and it makes sense. The nine are crumbling as a religion, that's kinda what it looks like going from 4 to 5. ES 6 will probably talk of another in-between game war that ultimately lead to the fall or divide of the nine.
@Son Gohan Yeah, agreed. I'm grateful for the modding community keeping Skyrim interesting for so long, but would much prefer if Bethesda hasn't rushed the release and let the devs finish their job I the first place
the funny thing is, as the elder scrolls goes on it departs more and more from Julian LaFey's writings... so the fact that Julianos is disappearing is fitting in a way.
@@louthinator I think the direction it's going is the complete wrong direction. Skyrim was so...bland. It takes mods to add worthwhile replay value to the game. Bethesda isn't putting in the effort the studio was once known for and it saddens me.
The Oblivion Crisis is what happened to Magic, basically mages were blamed for it by the simple folk, because they couldn't find a better reason for portals to Oblivion just opening out of thin air.
@boomslash1 Nice trolling attempt,next time do 2 things before: 1) watch the video till the end, 2)use logic the effects can be seen in the distrust of magic in the games
I just figured it was a skyrim only mentality, since the college is seen as a nuisance in winterhold, the only place to really go to learn magic in skyrim.
@Grant Ellifrits while chalking it up to skyrim only mentality seems plausible there is one key detail that isn't talked about, but it has been a constant presence throughout all previous games, The Mages Guild. There is no mages guild in Skyrim. Why though it's an international organization that should be present almost in every major city, yet all skyrim has is the college. How come only the thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood are present as their proper denomination. The fighters guild had trouble competing with freelance mercenaries like the Blackwood Company, but the mages guild was fine before the Oblivion Crisis, so people familiar with older lore might notice this. Hope this helped you out.
To be fair, Magic can blow up the caster. And if that happens, while they are being healed, well, imagine what would happen if some of that unstable magic, even restorative, would do, if it caused the caster to become a cloud of red mist, and bright golden light
Reminds me of Dragon age. Everyone loves magic when it’s being used to shove their guts back into their sliced open bellies or as weapons of war but every other time? Lock them in prisons
I wonder if the vilification of magic played a part in the diminishing of the Empire during the 4th era and the Empire effectively losing the Great War to the Aldmeri Dominion
The Altmer seemed to double down on their spellcasters. Pretty much every Thalmor Justiciar possesses some degree of magical skill...I've finished fights with Thalmor patrols looking like one of those icicle hedgehogs from Dark Souls 2.
I imagine that the fourth era Empire trying to fight the Aldmeri Dominion must have been like our guys in America trying to use classical Battle Tactics during a civil war where Modern rifles had already been invented. The Aldmeri Dominion was described using destruction magic on an incredible scale during the battles, and they mowed down a lot of Imperial troops before they even had a chance to engage. Now if a guild of Magic was still in use and good favor, a coalition of smiths and mages could produce some Magic Resistant/Reflecting gear for some of the Imperial troops and they would actually have had a cat's chance in hell. But unfortunately not, they lacked vision cus they lack our boi Jules.
@Defender of UA-cam nope. i played it morrowind and oblivion and it always plays the same. i have no reason to play it skyrim, especially when the sneak mechanic is completely busted.
@Defender of UA-cam i've recently fallen in love with the illusion tree in skyrim because it's a completely different way to play the game. other than that, i tend to focus more on either a two handed orc bulldozer or a lightly armored redguard with two swords. curved swords.
Funny how the nords hate magic, but have deep respect for the Dragonborn who has the ability to use the Voice without training despite it being a form of magic.
I see it as kind of like how in older D&D editions, psionics were considered a power separate from magic. To me, if it looks like a spell, glows like a spell, and scorches like a spell, then it's a spell, even if it's one have to yell at to make it work.
I think it's more to do with the fact that they "invented" it and it was used by great Nordic heroes to unify the land and accomplish legendary deeds, so there's a lot of pride behind the Voice for the Nords. In reality, just like TheSuperRatt said it's just another form of magic that realizes the musical nature of the world, like Sword Singing for the Yokudans (and maybe Redguards, dunno if there are any that can still do it) and the Tonal Architecture of the Dwemer.
darkwzrd4 The Nords stopped respecting & revering most non-Restoration & Enchanting magic because of the Mythic Dawn & Thalmor's use of magic, while the Thu'um is still seen as much of a thing to be proud of as it was back then (even so maybe not *as* much, what with Ulfric's use of it being seen as "cheating" & Guards telling you to keep quiet after shouting too much) because it has nothing to do with the likes of the Thalmor or the Mythic Dawn.
Used Heal Other on the Breton guy that can follow you to Eldergleem Sactuary after he was roughed up by a werewolf. His words to me: _"You think you're better than me because you can cast that?"_ Felt better than the typical guard dialogue about _fancy magic._
"Well, since you're gonna be like that, I can take my magic elsewhere, and you have to drag your crippled, little body, everywhere, until I say otherwise, or until we get to our joint destination"
BGS should make a game taking place back when ayelids(sorry if I slaughtered it) and dwemer still exist, and magic is widely used and popular. It'd be so interesting to see how the culture's used it
@@Doralga I wish they'd upgrade it then. There's so much potential in the elder scrolls for a great game that would blow Skyrim out of the water (no hate, Skyrim is my favorite game)
@Archus orez They had flying around on dragons in Skyrim's DragonBorn expansion, and tons of mods that allow the player to fly in various ways even before that. So why exactly would they need a new engine to allow for levitation? They removed it for gameplay reasons (because it completely invalidates a lot of level design aspects), not even remotely because it's something that they couldn't do from a technical standpoint. Either way though, we already know that they're building (or have already built) a new engine for the next Elder Scrolls game. Totally agree that a game set in the past with the Ayleid and Dwemer still around would be amazing though.
Curse the common folk of Tamerial!!!! Magic is a High Art, and it can do such amazing things, not just evil that they make it seem to be. I hope that Julianos worship and Magical practice never stops!!!! :)
the only way for societies that relly on magic to survive is to humble themselfs. while all the great magical empires and istitutions crumbled one after another until they where either whiped out, like the alyeds or the dwemer or are now just shadows of their former selves like the college of winterhold and house telvanni. those who humbled themselfs will remain, the psijic order, the grey beards and the moth priests will stand the test of time.
I'll pray to Julianos and Magnus till the end of time, becouse they are the gods of Magic and wisdom. If i want a party I would invite Sanguine, Hermaeus Mora, sheogorath and claficus vile.
Luke Skywalker the 2nd I flew with a dragon when I glitched in his wings an flew with him everywhere till he got stuck all the way past falkreath on top of the hill lol it was cool everyone still appeared below
Julianos fall in Popularity is understandable yet tragic. He's one of my favourite Aedra but I do get why a lot of people are afraid of Magic due to The Oblivion Crisis.
Is it bad that this also explains why magic seems so much weaker from Morrowind to Skyrim where you went from being able to fly and fire massive 50ft Fireballs(Or you spell choice.) To poorly casting magic that does little damage with one or two hands. (Great video by the way, Both my son and I very much enjoy Lore series like this.)
I like it as an in-universe explanation. Julianos is a god of higher thought, reason and enlightenment...the kind of thing that a warrior culture like the Nords wouldn't particularly care about, particularly in the middle of a civil war AND an infestation of dragons from the dawn of time. Like Onmund said, "If it can't be swung over your head and used to crack skulls, most Nords want nothing to do with it."
@@TylerHolt-hh5cf that is a form of magic in the elder Scrolls, their automatons are pretty clearly powered by soul gems given you can often loot filled ones from them
Following the teaching of Julianos Just becuse a few country pumpkings dislike Magic in the most Magic hated land (Skyrim) dose not meen other lands dislike Magic......... Magic is far to big for the Breatons etc....
@@georgecrowcroft9260 Redguards has Always hated choosen magic schools like etc Illusion and Necromancy and yes magic has surely gotten more hate after the great war with the elves
Really insightful and well orated. Your channel is one I always look forward to. Whether it be the relaxing Elder Scrolls music in the background or a refresher into one of the many facets of this wonderful world, it is always a pleasure to listen and watch.
"and whose number reset the sum neatly at Jhunal’s delight, for no march of the Sons and Daughters of Kyne can be ever ended..." the Five Hundred Mighty Companions of Ísgramor
I wonder if there’s a tie between Julianos and Hermaeus Mora? Given how the nature of Aedra and Daedra can change based off of human perception, I can’t help but wonder if there’s also an overlap in their very being?
Hermaeus Mora was created from the discarded ideas that Magnus never used when designing the Mundus; Mora is an Alien in the truest sense, being entirely made of laws and ideas that are COMPLETELY non-existant within the mortal realm. He is Cthulu, and the Anti-Creature. His lust for knowledge is just a jealously for the very THING, that he is NOT.
@@Alizudo exactly. It’s like being an artists ugly first draft, having to watch them make their magnum opus, knowing you’ll never be as impactful or loved.
It's interesting that the Faith of the Seven in GoT deities actually reflect of the Seven of the Eight Divines in Elder Scrolls. E.g. Mara and the Mother, Arkay and the Crone, Zennethir and the Smith. But the Red god in GoT can also reflect the Daedric Prince Merridia and the Faceless men serves Sithis as did the Dark Brotherhood.
It has to do with our own world. Thousands of years ago we had mages, wizards, shamans, prophets, etc. Slowly over time we began to regulate or ignore these things. Eventually, we ended up forgetting them entirely, instead relying on technology and politics to solve our problems.
I don't know if anyone else has pointed to this yet but WHY, oh WHY, is there, yet again, the confusion about Julianos and MAGNUS? Everywhere I look (UESP, ElderScrolls Wikia, The Imperial Library, etc) Julianos is noted as "the God of Wisdom and Logic (or Learning)". Magnus? Always, always the God of Magic (or Sorcery). The Ayelids worshipped Magnus as the God of Sight, Light and Insight. What was light to the Ayleids? Magic. The purest form of it in fact. In that case, Meridia is more magical than Julianos fod goodness sake. In Daggerfall (source: The Imperial Library), Julianos' Schools are noted as being like academies and you even quote the lines. "[...] we advocate literacy and education for all Tamrielans [...]". Does that sound like magic to anyone? Because it doesn't to me and I always prefer magic and being a magic wielder in all my games, hence I do like to dig into its origins and related topics. You even mentioned the Schools and the Mages Guild. Why would there be TWO of them? The Bretons have BOTH Julianos and Magnus in their native pantheon and the difference is clear: the former is about learning, knowledge and logic while the latter is about magic. And this line pops up everywhere as well: "Cyrodilic legends say he [a/n: Magus] can inhabit the bodies of powerful magicians and lend them his power." Is magic logical? No, I would certainly say it isn't. It's mystery. You can't apply logic to something like that. That's why, in TES, it comes from a realm far beyond Nirn (as noted: Aetherius). If Julianos was Jhunal and he was the god that gave mathematics and langauges to mortals. What are languages and mathematics ruled by? Logic, strict patterns and rules, everything that magic isn't ruled by. Why do I see magic as not ruled by logic and rules? Because it comes from another realm: Aetherius. It's highly arrogant and illogical to think that the rules that apply to OUR world would apply to even a neighbouring world. And in this case, there's Oblivion between the two. At most, I could agree on that Julianos/Jhunal is the heir/apprentice to Magnus but THE God of Magic? No, that he'll never be to me with so many sources quoting Magnus as the God of Magic. At most, I would say it's similar to how religions in our world have cannibalised rituals and holy days of older faiths in an attempt to make the transition for the new converts. But we're all allowed to agree to disagree. I WOULD have given this video more credit if it'd brought up the case of Magnus vs Julianos though. Especally since Magnus, the Architect of Mundus, holds the title of God of Magic that this video bestows Julianos, the Scholar.
The question, though, is “Is Magnus a god?” In terms of power, he is actually stronger than the Divines (having fled Mundus partway through creation)... but he is not technically a DIVINE. Aiunic, yes, but he’s not bound to Mundus, and his “planet” is a hole punched in the sky when he noped out of there. So, then, when the “Eight Divines” pantheon was being put together, it makes sense that Magnus (not technically a divine) would be pushed aside in favor of Julianos.
Also, Re: Logic and magic, magic may come from Aetherius, but it behaves in reliable, recognizable ways in Mundus, and the study of magic is ABSOLUTELY a science in the ES universe. You learn spells (repeatable formulae with predictable results) from books, experiments are constantly being done to expand people’s knowledge of magic, it’s being taught and researched in a college, etc. Most scholars are mages, and vice versa: The Court Wizards, Orcish wise-women, it’s a cultural thing. And the Dwemer, the greatest scholars and logicians of all, were MASTERS of magic. So while Magnus may be the source of magical power, Julianos is the god who oversees the study and learning required to master the art, giving him an equal claim to the title “God of Magic”. ... it’s like the “Dibella vs. Mara” debate, both are goddesses of love, but it’s different kinds and aspects of love. Or, for a real-world example, Ares and Athena. Both are Greek gods of war, but Athena is the goddess of battle strategy and justified war, while Ares is the god of senseless bloodshed.
These are good comments. I agree that the video ignores Magnus the actual god directly governing magic and whose exit through the firmament allows magic to flow to Mundus. It conflates Julianos the god of wisdom, logic, and learning with the real god of magic perhaps because, as mentioned in the previous comment, magic is studied in rule governed ways in Tamriel. However, this does not mean that Julianos is the god of magic, since learning, reason, logic, and the like are also needed for other disciplines and life in general. Magic is the study which most paradigmatically requires the use of logic and reason to acquire due to its abstruse nature, yet this only points to a close working relationship between Julianos' and Magnus' domains. As to the comment on the differences between Athena and Ares, Athena was the god of strategy and intelligent warfare not because she was specifically or only a war deity, but because she was a god of crafts, wisdom, and of achieving purposes in the best way. Warfare is where these things--applicable to many areas of life--take on their most life and death quality.
As an amateur chemist, i feel great resonance with this and the fear and hatred that is directed at the mages of Tamriel. For we amateur chemists experience the same, people continuously looking at us as criminals and outcasts, often asking why we do what we do without coming to realize the true beauty in the physical nature of our universe and the desire to shape and change pieces of it just for the mere enjoyments and satisfaction in observing such changes.
what the hell are you two on about? chemists and biologists aren't looked down by common people, or referred to as "criminals" or "outcasts", they are highly respected.
it is not magic that is fading, it is the natural cycle of all societies that relly on magic. if magic is the thing that leads to greatness, it is also the thing that leads to decadence and therefore to the eventual downfall, the candle that burns twice as brightly only burns for half as long. just look at all the great magical empires, they grew fast and died even mroe qiuckly. the alyeds where whiped out. the snow elves where enslaved and twisted into beasts. the dragon cult was whiped out. the dwemer disapeared. the mages guild was ended. house telvanni is only a shadow of it's former self. winterhold crumbled. those magical societies and institutions that remain are the proof that the only way for them to avoid destruction is to humble themselfs, the grey beards, the psijic monks and the moth priests are the only groups that will forever stand the test of time.
Most of these groups were destroyed by external forces and magic had little to do with it. The Dwemer were the only ones to actually be destroyed by magic, if that is even what happened. Also, we don’t know what happened to winterhold, only that a bunch of people who already distrust magic blame the college. Even the mages guild collapsed due to politics and the public turning against magic after the oblivion crisis that the mages guild had nothing to do with. Don’t forget that the empire also uses plenty of magic and that the only reason we don’t see it in Skyrim is the devs literally forgot to add battlemages after you see them once in the opening of the game.
I love lore videos. Could you guys do some on the Aldmeri pantheon? I am curious how Julianos fits into their pantheon, although I've heard he is basically replaced by Magnus.
@@the_dropbear4392 but we all know how savage human beings can be...I fear for the human mages. While the elves, in all likelihood, will not hunt mages and therefore elves can take refuge in their native countries, humans will not be welcomed there. Maybe morrowind but certainly not summerset or valenwood thanks to the thalmor. What about them?
Skyrim being the Worst place for a magi, most likely to be ridiculed and killed for the most minor of infraction and being the victim of rather vicious rumor. Cyrodil would be Better although knowledge overall would be Restricted. Magi forced into service of the empire and only able allowed to learn what would help the service. I don't know enough about Hammerfell to give an opinion, but then you got High Rock which would become the magical Capital. the best place for Magi to learn and grow with the least restrictions. You also have Elswyr, Which I don't think would remain Thalmor. The alliance is built on loose ground and I forsee a revolt at some point in the future. While not the most hospitable of places for humans it may be tolerant to them at least. Same for Morrowind but there would probably be a lot of Indentured servitude going on.
Ni Maa I agree, that's what I had thought too. I believe in order for the Empire to keep the peace, it may have to ban the worship of Julianos and the practice of Magic. It can be possible to find refuge in High Rock and Elswyr too. Just Depends though.
Julianos isn't forgotten and magic isn't universally shunned. Magic isn't fading, either. People may be wary of mages after the events of Oblivion, that's really it. Skyrim in their old traditions blame mages for it and have since come to distrust mages, but you seem to be forgetting that magic isn't all togther shunned in Skyrim, either. The common folk are perfectly fine w/ restoration and I shouldn't have to tell you, but restoration magic is still magic. Just because they're wary of magic doesn't mean they universally shun it like you present in this video.
The Jarls also employ Court Wizards to advice and research, so it is definitely more in the line of commoners distrusting magic, because the ruling class generally doesn't.
It's fairly understandable for Skyrim. Outside of Winterhold every mage you encounter is kind of sketchy, abducting people for experiments and betraying eachother. What did Orthorn do to get locked up?
I mentioned this in an earlier comment, but I think Julianos governs intelligence and reason, and through that, mortalkind's ability to manipilate the ambient magicka that already exists in the world. Without him, yes, the sun would still shine, but we'd be about as magical as mudcrabs.
Here is just a thought. What if magic isn't fading but it's just weaker in certain locations. Skyrim is full of ignorant warriors. Their lack of worship of Julianos could make magic weaker in Skyrim or seem to be fading. Just my thought on the matter.
8:41 Dragon break? Quantum physical aftershock, the force of quantum energy. Shaking through dimensions of spacetime fabric. To cause events to happen years later or into the past.
The most powerful military and political power is a magic focused race. The reason magic is less prevalent in Skyrim is because they associate it with the elven races, thus it becomes a reflection of their racism and xenophobia. The Mage's Guild did not dissolve entirely, it split into two groups due to discourse over the study of necromancy and conjuration. Both splinter groups are recognized officially by the Empire. Basically...I have no clue why you think the way you do. Skyrim has always been anti-magic and it's no surprise that they reacted the way they did, but that doesn't mean it's a reflection of the state of magic throughout all of Tamriel.
You should extend your knowledge. Nords have not been against magic (we cannot say Skyrim because it is inhabited by many races with different views), arch-mage Shalidor, for example, is a perfect example, during which' life Nords have been practicing magic on quite a large scale. That is why Tsun says Nords forgot about their past as magic-users. Nords distrust magic because if the calamity that happened to Winterhold, it is only after most stopped using it that they came to associate magic with Elves (most Nords were not practicing it, most Elves were at that time).
@@fisebilillah4406 That behavior is still delusional and absurd for the Nords to treat Magic like the many cause, it is an individual or a unfortunate calamity that caused Winterhold to turn like that. Over all, I do enjoy the lore of Elder Scroll, it has a lot of stories of many things.
@@ingonyama70 i mean the Man is a Racist but at least his cause is just. Besides true Nord's go down fighting, ulfric doesn't plan on winning against the thalmor, he plans to fight to the last man, which I can deeply respect, if you're going down, go down like a man. Something the imperials didn't quite understand
It's also interesting how badly the imperials damage themselves with this policy, the Thalmore were doing so well in the Great war because of their excellent magic, and also probably didn't abide by the imperial ban on flying magic, thus giving them an airforce.
I think it’s possible magic will end. Ppl will forget not only the gods but the old ways and the mages guild the college and even the psjic order. The telvani wizards were great but they must have been gone too dut to the eruption.
It's really interesting to me how magic fell out of favor after Dagon's attack, but in response to Molag Bal's planemeld, if anything, the Mages Guild got more well-reputed. It's all about how they responded to it, I suppose.
I guess an intersting possible theme for TES6 could be the resurgence of magic. Like, how inBethesda overhauled how power armor worked and introduced settlement building as new gimmicks for Fallout 4, maybe they could roll out a bunch of new magic-based mechanics for TES6 to get people excited, and they could of course make magic more pivotal to the central story of the game.
IMO magic should start getting weaker overall. Not in actual Power but in the level of skill the Magi have. The Colleges should fade form the public, Becoming small reclusive organizations away from major civilizations. Most cities would have at most 1 or 2 families of mages and lone magi not counting court mages and librarians. While smaller minor villages and town have none, even forgetting mages exist at most may have an Apothecary or Healer. Witch Hunters would begin coming more into power. getting more business and recognition as they hunt the Plentiful amount of Rouge and Hedge mages out in the wilds, sniffing out magic and abominations wherever it may hide. Places like High Rock become bastion for Magi as they are built as magic. In other provinces Magicks become more restricted, a typical Magi being pressed into military service or being forced to study in secret. Great noble houses becoming reclusive and mysterious with rumors of them being secretly powerful mages down to the lone hedge studying out in the wilds in hopes they can avoid the Hunters.
I don't think magic will ever truly be forgotten, as there are many aspects of the world that involve magic. Healers and priests use magic to heal the sick and weak. So there will always be Restoration Magic. Battlemages are far too invaluable to a military to get rid of, so there will always be destruction magic. Thieves and assassins will always be needed, and those thieves will need invisibility and quiet feet to slip away. So there will always be illusion magic.
Magic shall never fade, so long as there are those who wish to learn and teach. My Breton brethren and I shall uphold Julianos and his teachings as well as spreading our knowledge across Tamriel.
I adore how auntie Beth can put references anywhere. The matter of contradiction is actually a problem in the phylosophical discipline of logic, Hegel believed the key to understanding reality lied within contradiction.
I was thinking about this yesterday. A lot of advanced magic that has been recorded (lore), seen (aylied ruins etc.) and experienced, compared to what actually can be used, isn't there anymore.
You know what would be great? If fear spells and effects made opponents exit combat. Why use a fear spell in combat if it just makes them run away, forcing you to chase them down?
Good vid… one problem... 7:09 Martin did NOT relight the dragon fires. He destroyed the amulet and used it to turn himself into an avatar of the Akatosh. The fires are still cold. Nirn has no barrier against invasion at the time of Skyrim.
Science and logic are not in conflict with faith (Christianity to be specific). "The Bible played a positive role in the development of science. Had it not been for the rise of the literal interpretation of the Bible and the subsequent appropriation of biblical narratives by early modern scientists, modern science may not have arisen at all. In sum, the Bible and its literal interpretation have played a vital role in the development of Western science " Harrison, P., The Bible and the rise of science, Australasian Science 23(3):14-15, 2002. "Here is a final paradox. Recent work on early modern science has demonstrated a direct (and positive) relationship between the resurgence of the Hebraic, literal exegesis of the Bible in the Protestant Reformation, and the rise of the empirical method in modern science. I’m not referring to wooden literalism, but the sophisticated literal-historical hermeneutics that Martin Luther and others (including Newton) championed." Snobelen, S., Isaac Newton and Apocalypse Now: a response to Tom Harpur’s ‘Newton’s strange bedfellows’; A longer version of the letter published in the Toronto Star, 2004. "It was, in part, when this method was transferred to science, when students of nature moved on from studying nature as symbols, allegories and metaphors to observing nature directly in an inductive and empirical way, that modern science was born. In this, Newton also played a pivotal role. As strange as it may sound, science will forever be in the debt of millenarians and biblical literalists." This is contrary to common (mis)understanding, yet it is well documented. Don't buy into popular myth. "The “Enlightenment” was conceived initially as a propaganda ploy by militant atheists and humanists [e.g. Voltaire, Diderot and Gibbon] who attempted to claim credit for the rise of science [through promulgating] the falsehood that science required the defeat of religion" Stark, R., For the Glory of God: How monotheism led to reformations, science, witch-hunts and the end of slavery, Princeton University Press, 2003. “Science was not the work of western secularists or even deists; it was entirely the work of devout believers in an active, conscious, creator God. Stark, R., For the Glory of God: How monotheism led to reformations, science, witch-hunts and the end of slavery, Princeton University Press, 2003. James Hannam, who recently earned a Ph.D. on the History of Science from the University of Cambridge, UK, pointed out: “During the Middle Ages, the Catholic Church actively supported a great deal of science, which it also kept control of when speculation could impinge on theology. Furthermore and contrary to popular belief, the Church never supported the idea that the earth was flat, never banned human dissection, never banned zero and certainly never burnt anyone at the stake for scientific ideas.” “Popular opinion, journalistic cliché and misinformed historians not withstanding, recent research has shown that the Middle Ages were a period of enormous advances in science, technology and culture. The compass, paper, printing, stirrups and gunpowder all appeared in Western Europe between AD 500 and AD 1500. Hannam, J., God’s Philosophers: How the Medieval World Laid the Foundations of Modern Science, 2007
Stendarr's Vigilants aren't mage hunters, they only go after Daedra, Daedra worshippers, and the undead. Granted, conjurers and necromancers are a type of mage, but your average Destruction/Restoration user, item Enchanter, or Alteration expert who worships the Eight (or Nine) ought to be fine.
Just because magic is frowned upon in the 4th Era, that does not necessarily mean that Julianos is neglected. There are still scholars, philosophers, educators, and historians who revere him. Unlike wizards and sorceresses, those individuals are still widely respected. Even magic hating Nords respect learned historians.
Tsun the guardian of Soverngarde said, "The (current) Nords (Stormcloak vs Imperials Era) may have forgotten their Forefathers (Ancestral Ancient Nords) respect for the Clever Craft (Magic). Here in Shor's house, we honor it still... Many of your comrades (mages) throng this hall."
It pretty much sums it up. One of the most powerful and learned mages in the history of Tamriel was a Nord, Shalidor, founder of the College of Winterhold and allegedly builder of the entire city that would later become the capitol of Skyrim. Thu'um is an ancient form of magic natural to Dragons and gifted to Nords by the Gods.
Alchemy, the art and science of making potions and poisons, is just as magical as casting a fireball or summoning an Atronach.
In TES magic isn't just in everything. Magic IS EVERYTHING. For someone in that universe to say they hate magic is like them saying they hate themselves.
@@edim108 Exactly! 💯💯💯
Mages got it tough in Skyrim, I can't even count how many times I've heard guards say to me "Go cast your fancy Magic somewhere else"
Whoa, whoa whoa! Watch the magic
I don't know. I hear they have a lot of respect for the restoration school. Skyrim could user more healers.
Hail summoner, conjure me up a warm bed
Destruction magic is fine just don't go around burning down any houses.
Could you enchant my sword? Dull thing can barely cut butter.
No wonder we lost some spells... R.I.P. Levitation...
So true
@@MiaJoBella Stormcloak hate magic though
@Wirr Ling you mean "hello boring ass spells that cannot be used to manipulate or logic around in game mechanics."
Breaking games is generally not a desirable feature but when such broken mechanics are taken and instead made a part of the game and used to accentuate the world, then you know you have a true masterpiece in your hands.
+Pewee Deedee
Has nothing to do w/ levitation, m8. Has everything to do with game designers not wanting to spend the time adding another layer to the game to make levitation a meaningful feature in it. Also be wary of just believing everything FudgeMuppet says. This video is basically blowing everything out of proportion.
@@AdventurerOfOblivion From a lore stand point it makes sense, you can see effects from ES 4 in ES 5 and I'm sure we'll see more in ES 6. What you're saying is fine, in our world. However this is from a Lore standpoint and it makes sense. The nine are crumbling as a religion, that's kinda what it looks like going from 4 to 5. ES 6 will probably talk of another in-between game war that ultimately lead to the fall or divide of the nine.
Magic will fade cause Bethesda keeps reducing the number of spells
And the number of schools
Fortunately, there are plenty of modders who are able and willing to add more spells
There used to be 9 spells. There are now... 90 spells.
Magic is fading because Todd Howard who is GodHead is slowly waking up
@Son Gohan Yeah, agreed. I'm grateful for the modding community keeping Skyrim interesting for so long, but would much prefer if Bethesda hasn't rushed the release and let the devs finish their job I the first place
Fun fact: Julianos is actually named for Elder Scrolls creator Julian LaFey.
Loved grandson of the famed sorceress Morgan LaFey.
And Akatosh is named after an old forum poster called Smaug. Also Known As The Other Smaug something with an H.
Survivalist Also Known As The Old Smaug Himself
the funny thing is, as the elder scrolls goes on it departs more and more from Julian LaFey's writings... so the fact that Julianos is disappearing is fitting in a way.
@@louthinator I think the direction it's going is the complete wrong direction. Skyrim was so...bland. It takes mods to add worthwhile replay value to the game. Bethesda isn't putting in the effort the studio was once known for and it saddens me.
The Oblivion Crisis is what happened to Magic, basically mages were blamed for it by the simple folk, because they couldn't find a better reason for portals to Oblivion just opening out of thin air.
Racey Kovev Source?
@boomslash1 Nice trolling attempt,next time do 2 things before: 1) watch the video till the end, 2)use logic the effects can be seen in the distrust of magic in the games
I just figured it was a skyrim only mentality, since the college is seen as a nuisance in winterhold, the only place to really go to learn magic in skyrim.
@boomslash1 Maybe you should do research like everyone else rather then being ignorant and asking for a source to something everyone knows about.
@Grant Ellifrits while chalking it up to skyrim only mentality seems plausible there is one key detail that isn't talked about, but it has been a constant presence throughout all previous games, The Mages Guild. There is no mages guild in Skyrim. Why though it's an international organization that should be present almost in every major city, yet all skyrim has is the college. How come only the thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood are present as their proper denomination. The fighters guild had trouble competing with freelance mercenaries like the Blackwood Company, but the mages guild was fine before the Oblivion Crisis, so people familiar with older lore might notice this. Hope this helped you out.
When you cast healing hands on someone because they are hurt and they say “go cast your fancy magic someplace else”
Herpy Depth or they attack you
At least they think it's fancy rather than plain or poor.
To be fair, Magic can blow up the caster. And if that happens, while they are being healed, well, imagine what would happen if some of that unstable magic, even restorative, would do, if it caused the caster to become a cloud of red mist, and bright golden light
Reminds me of Dragon age. Everyone loves magic when it’s being used to shove their guts back into their sliced open bellies or as weapons of war but every other time? Lock them in prisons
Magic will always be here I hope 🤔 where's my levitation?
Altmer Arch Mage
Magic will be forgotten and every other race than human will die off. Then fallout happens.
Thats in that very easy locked chest, let me use my open very easy unlock spell....
Your levitation's hanging out with Dunmer mate. :D
Its not LeviOsa its LevioSAA
I predict the Thalmor would be the only magical institute left for tamriel and they would capalize on it
I wonder if the vilification of magic played a part in the diminishing of the Empire during the 4th era and the Empire effectively losing the Great War to the Aldmeri Dominion
The Altmer seemed to double down on their spellcasters. Pretty much every Thalmor Justiciar possesses some degree of magical skill...I've finished fights with Thalmor patrols looking like one of those icicle hedgehogs from Dark Souls 2.
I imagine that the fourth era Empire trying to fight the Aldmeri Dominion must have been like our guys in America trying to use classical Battle Tactics during a civil war where Modern rifles had already been invented. The Aldmeri Dominion was described using destruction magic on an incredible scale during the battles, and they mowed down a lot of Imperial troops before they even had a chance to engage.
Now if a guild of Magic was still in use and good favor, a coalition of smiths and mages could produce some Magic Resistant/Reflecting gear for some of the Imperial troops and they would actually have had a cat's chance in hell. But unfortunately not, they lacked vision cus they lack our boi Jules.
Almost definitely
They won't actually remove magic from the Elder Scrolls it's the most popular way to play the game besides stealth archer.
@Defender of UA-cam nope. i played it morrowind and oblivion and it always plays the same. i have no reason to play it skyrim, especially when the sneak mechanic is completely busted.
@Defender of UA-cam i've recently fallen in love with the illusion tree in skyrim because it's a completely different way to play the game.
other than that, i tend to focus more on either a two handed orc bulldozer or a lightly armored redguard with two swords. curved swords.
In Morrowind you can be a flying archer
It doesn't compare
Thomas Jenkins curved swords?
Stealth archer is pretty much the natural evolution of any playstyles in ES
Funny how the nords hate magic, but have deep respect for the Dragonborn who has the ability to use the Voice without training despite it being a form of magic.
I see it as kind of like how in older D&D editions, psionics were considered a power separate from magic.
To me, if it looks like a spell, glows like a spell, and scorches like a spell, then it's a spell, even if it's one have to yell at to make it work.
+Curt Clark Exactly. You could consider the words of power used in shouts to be incantations.
Well, I mean, Dragon Shouts are literally a form of Tonal magic.
I think it's more to do with the fact that they "invented" it and it was used by great Nordic heroes to unify the land and accomplish legendary deeds, so there's a lot of pride behind the Voice for the Nords. In reality, just like TheSuperRatt said it's just another form of magic that realizes the musical nature of the world, like Sword Singing for the Yokudans (and maybe Redguards, dunno if there are any that can still do it) and the Tonal Architecture of the Dwemer.
darkwzrd4 The Nords stopped respecting & revering most non-Restoration & Enchanting magic because of the Mythic Dawn & Thalmor's use of magic, while the Thu'um is still seen as much of a thing to be proud of as it was back then (even so maybe not *as* much, what with Ulfric's use of it being seen as "cheating" & Guards telling you to keep quiet after shouting too much) because it has nothing to do with the likes of the Thalmor or the Mythic Dawn.
Used Heal Other on the Breton guy that can follow you to Eldergleem Sactuary after he was roughed up by a werewolf.
His words to me:
_"You think you're better than me because you can cast that?"_
Felt better than the typical guard dialogue about _fancy magic._
"Well, since you're gonna be like that, I can take my magic elsewhere, and you have to drag your crippled, little body, everywhere, until I say otherwise, or until we get to our joint destination"
Julianos:*god of magic*
Magnus: hold my beer
*mead
*eye
@@jacebalderaz4576 *rod
*Pinard
2:00 there's a dead spider on the wardrobe
Yeah Well it doesn’t fit in a drawer sooooo
lol
I'm going to need a bigger broom for that
Lol
BGS should make a game taking place back when ayelids(sorry if I slaughtered it) and dwemer still exist, and magic is widely used and popular. It'd be so interesting to see how the culture's used it
They would need a better engine for that game cuz levitation was Legal during those times
@@Doralga I wish they'd upgrade it then. There's so much potential in the elder scrolls for a great game that would blow Skyrim out of the water (no hate, Skyrim is my favorite game)
@@jonathongraham4471 agreed
@Archus orez They had flying around on dragons in Skyrim's DragonBorn expansion, and tons of mods that allow the player to fly in various ways even before that. So why exactly would they need a new engine to allow for levitation? They removed it for gameplay reasons (because it completely invalidates a lot of level design aspects), not even remotely because it's something that they couldn't do from a technical standpoint. Either way though, we already know that they're building (or have already built) a new engine for the next Elder Scrolls game.
Totally agree that a game set in the past with the Ayleid and Dwemer still around would be amazing though.
cause current level designers at bugthesda couldn't comprehend the level design for levitation especially with the dungeon design of skyrim
Absolutely loving the series keep up the great work ❤️
"The Forgotten god" Oh Jyggalag is finally getting his own video!...............no wait still not here yet.
Jygg is occupied serving as the Thalmor's main deity and writing hate leters against talos, sheogorath and lorkhan
I honestly think of Magnus when I think of magic, always thought Julianos was just intelligence and wisdom and stuff.
"'Magic is powerful and dangerous, a tool to be used or be used by, it deserves our respect and veneration not fear and distrust'' arch mage of Skyrim
Curse the common folk of Tamerial!!!! Magic is a High Art, and it can do such amazing things, not just evil that they make it seem to be. I hope that Julianos worship and Magical practice never stops!!!! :)
the only way for societies that relly on magic to survive is to humble themselfs.
while all the great magical empires and istitutions crumbled one after another until they where either whiped out, like the alyeds or the dwemer or are now just shadows of their former selves like the college of winterhold and house telvanni.
those who humbled themselfs will remain, the psijic order, the grey beards and the moth priests will stand the test of time.
I'll pray to Julianos and Magnus till the end of time, becouse they are the gods of Magic and wisdom. If i want a party I would invite Sanguine, Hermaeus Mora, sheogorath and claficus vile.
I honor my Lord by destroying Youu!! I smell weakness!.
@@Bludawg27 let me guess, a vigilant of standar? Or a follower of Boethia?
Luke Skywalker the 2nd I flew with a dragon when I glitched in his wings an flew with him everywhere till he got stuck all the way past falkreath on top of the hill lol it was cool everyone still appeared below
Julianos fall in Popularity is understandable yet tragic. He's one of my favourite Aedra but I do get why a lot of people are afraid of Magic due to The Oblivion Crisis.
*something fucks us because we don’t understand it properly*
People: let’s avoid understanding it
40 years later, global warming
Is it bad that this also explains why magic seems so much weaker from Morrowind to Skyrim where you went from being able to fly and fire massive 50ft Fireballs(Or you spell choice.) To poorly casting magic that does little damage with one or two hands. (Great video by the way, Both my son and I very much enjoy Lore series like this.)
I like it as an in-universe explanation.
Julianos is a god of higher thought, reason and enlightenment...the kind of thing that a warrior culture like the Nords wouldn't particularly care about, particularly in the middle of a civil war AND an infestation of dragons from the dawn of time. Like Onmund said, "If it can't be swung over your head and used to crack skulls, most Nords want nothing to do with it."
But the Nords used to venerate their scholars as well, so what happened to draw them away from that?
I feel that condemning the study of magic in tamriel would be similar to condemning the study of physics or maybe even all sciences, in our own world.
Not really. Science exists in Tamriel. The Dwemer
@@TylerHolt-hh5cf that is a form of magic in the elder Scrolls, their automatons are pretty clearly powered by soul gems given you can often loot filled ones from them
Man I love the way he makes his videos. 👍 good job
Following the teaching of Julianos
Just becuse a few country pumpkings dislike Magic in the most Magic hated land (Skyrim) dose not meen other lands dislike Magic......... Magic is far to big for the Breatons etc....
Hence why you take Fudgemuppet with a grain of salt.
@@dutchpatriot17 sure tho it dose not make it so you cant point things out :)
The redguards probably hates magic as much too
@@georgecrowcroft9260 Redguards has Always hated choosen magic schools like etc Illusion and Necromancy and yes magic has surely gotten more hate after the great war with the elves
And all elven society outside of orcs of course
Really insightful and well orated. Your channel is one I always look forward to. Whether it be the relaxing Elder Scrolls music in the background or a refresher into one of the many facets of this wonderful world, it is always a pleasure to listen and watch.
How poetic that the god named after the father of the elder scrolls whom no longer works with Bethesda, is fading from existence
Amazing content as always! You make me fall in love with the Elder Scrolls series over and over again
"and whose number reset the sum neatly at Jhunal’s delight, for no march of the Sons and Daughters of Kyne can be ever ended..."
the Five Hundred Mighty Companions of Ísgramor
The fall of the ayleids, dwemer and years of research by the mages guild has the same impact the burning of the great library of alexandria have on us
I still mourn the loss of such an amazing library!
so not much loss at all?
Years later and I'm still in awe of the amount of lore and detail The Edler Scrolls universe. It's really incredible.
I wonder if there’s a tie between Julianos and Hermaeus Mora? Given how the nature of Aedra and Daedra can change based off of human perception, I can’t help but wonder if there’s also an overlap in their very being?
Hermaeus Mora was created from the discarded ideas that Magnus never used when designing the Mundus; Mora is an Alien in the truest sense, being entirely made of laws and ideas that are COMPLETELY non-existant within the mortal realm. He is Cthulu, and the Anti-Creature. His lust for knowledge is just a jealously for the very THING, that he is NOT.
@@Alizudo exactly. It’s like being an artists ugly first draft, having to watch them make their magnum opus, knowing you’ll never be as impactful or loved.
I love your style of talking, I've rarely enjoyed a voice this much before.
curved swords
Have you seen those warriors from Hammerfel? They've got curved penis's. Big curved penis's.
i hope magic comes back strong in es6 its what makes the games fun
Yea
@@thechadnorseman308 fancy seeing you here
@@holdentudiks7123 Aye, we chads tend to attract other chads
@@thechadnorseman308 true dat. Just wish i hadda a stacey on my jock right now but the pussy crop is not good this harvest unfortunately
Magic fading? What is this A Song of Ice and Fire?
Thats a pretty damn common trope in most fantasy TBH. Ice and fire certainly didn't create the magic is fading trope =D
It certainly didn't! But it's the one I'm most familiar with 😃
It's interesting that the Faith of the Seven in GoT deities actually reflect of the Seven of the Eight Divines in Elder Scrolls. E.g. Mara and the Mother, Arkay and the Crone, Zennethir and the Smith.
But the Red god in GoT can also reflect the Daedric Prince Merridia and the Faceless men serves Sithis as did the Dark Brotherhood.
TBH the world is so vapid generic and uninteresting in GoT i wouldn't have noticed that in a million years XD
It has to do with our own world. Thousands of years ago we had mages, wizards, shamans, prophets, etc. Slowly over time we began to regulate or ignore these things. Eventually, we ended up forgetting them entirely, instead relying on technology and politics to solve our problems.
Literally my favorite UA-cam channel also being a mage is the best play through in Skyrim.
I don't know if anyone else has pointed to this yet but WHY, oh WHY, is there, yet again, the confusion about Julianos and MAGNUS? Everywhere I look (UESP, ElderScrolls Wikia, The Imperial Library, etc) Julianos is noted as "the God of Wisdom and Logic (or Learning)". Magnus? Always, always the God of Magic (or Sorcery).
The Ayelids worshipped Magnus as the God of Sight, Light and Insight. What was light to the Ayleids? Magic. The purest form of it in fact. In that case, Meridia is more magical than Julianos fod goodness sake.
In Daggerfall (source: The Imperial Library), Julianos' Schools are noted as being like academies and you even quote the lines. "[...] we advocate literacy and education for all Tamrielans [...]". Does that sound like magic to anyone? Because it doesn't to me and I always prefer magic and being a magic wielder in all my games, hence I do like to dig into its origins and related topics. You even mentioned the Schools and the Mages Guild. Why would there be TWO of them? The Bretons have BOTH Julianos and Magnus in their native pantheon and the difference is clear: the former is about learning, knowledge and logic while the latter is about magic.
And this line pops up everywhere as well: "Cyrodilic legends say he [a/n: Magus] can inhabit the bodies of powerful magicians and lend them his power."
Is magic logical? No, I would certainly say it isn't. It's mystery. You can't apply logic to something like that. That's why, in TES, it comes from a realm far beyond Nirn (as noted: Aetherius). If Julianos was Jhunal and he was the god that gave mathematics and langauges to mortals. What are languages and mathematics ruled by? Logic, strict patterns and rules, everything that magic isn't ruled by. Why do I see magic as not ruled by logic and rules? Because it comes from another realm: Aetherius. It's highly arrogant and illogical to think that the rules that apply to OUR world would apply to even a neighbouring world. And in this case, there's Oblivion between the two.
At most, I could agree on that Julianos/Jhunal is the heir/apprentice to Magnus but THE God of Magic? No, that he'll never be to me with so many sources quoting Magnus as the God of Magic. At most, I would say it's similar to how religions in our world have cannibalised rituals and holy days of older faiths in an attempt to make the transition for the new converts.
But we're all allowed to agree to disagree. I WOULD have given this video more credit if it'd brought up the case of Magnus vs Julianos though. Especally since Magnus, the Architect of Mundus, holds the title of God of Magic that this video bestows Julianos, the Scholar.
One word: Syncretism
The question, though, is “Is Magnus a god?”
In terms of power, he is actually stronger than the Divines (having fled Mundus partway through creation)... but he is not technically a DIVINE. Aiunic, yes, but he’s not bound to Mundus, and his “planet” is a hole punched in the sky when he noped out of there.
So, then, when the “Eight Divines” pantheon was being put together, it makes sense that Magnus (not technically a divine) would be pushed aside in favor of Julianos.
Also, Re: Logic and magic, magic may come from Aetherius, but it behaves in reliable, recognizable ways in Mundus, and the study of magic is ABSOLUTELY a science in the ES universe.
You learn spells (repeatable formulae with predictable results) from books, experiments are constantly being done to expand people’s knowledge of magic, it’s being taught and researched in a college, etc.
Most scholars are mages, and vice versa: The Court Wizards, Orcish wise-women, it’s a cultural thing. And the Dwemer, the greatest scholars and logicians of all, were MASTERS of magic.
So while Magnus may be the source of magical power, Julianos is the god who oversees the study and learning required to master the art, giving him an equal claim to the title “God of Magic”.
... it’s like the “Dibella vs. Mara” debate, both are goddesses of love, but it’s different kinds and aspects of love.
Or, for a real-world example, Ares and Athena. Both are Greek gods of war, but Athena is the goddess of battle strategy and justified war, while Ares is the god of senseless bloodshed.
These are good comments. I agree that the video ignores Magnus the actual god directly governing magic and whose exit through the firmament allows magic to flow to Mundus. It conflates Julianos the god of wisdom, logic, and learning with the real god of magic perhaps because, as mentioned in the previous comment, magic is studied in rule governed ways in Tamriel. However, this does not mean that Julianos is the god of magic, since learning, reason, logic, and the like are also needed for other disciplines and life in general. Magic is the study which most paradigmatically requires the use of logic and reason to acquire due to its abstruse nature, yet this only points to a close working relationship between Julianos' and Magnus' domains.
As to the comment on the differences between Athena and Ares, Athena was the god of strategy and intelligent warfare not because she was specifically or only a war deity, but because she was a god of crafts, wisdom, and of achieving purposes in the best way. Warfare is where these things--applicable to many areas of life--take on their most life and death quality.
Julianos and magic will never go away for one simple reason people are ambitious.
Is this the reason for the more streamlined magic system?
Plot twist, this is literally the plot of tes6
@@_Cerb_ bro like........wooAh
Great video love your channel keep up the great work
Whoa whoa whoa, watch the magic!
Love fudgemuppet!!! That’s how I knew it was going to be a good day, woke up and had a new video from you guys !!!!
As an amateur chemist, i feel great resonance with this and the fear and hatred that is directed at the mages of Tamriel.
For we amateur chemists experience the same, people continuously looking at us as criminals and outcasts, often asking why we do what we do without coming to realize the true beauty in the physical nature of our universe and the desire to shape and change pieces of it just for the mere enjoyments and satisfaction in observing such changes.
what the hell are you two on about? chemists and biologists aren't looked down by common people, or referred to as "criminals" or "outcasts", they are highly respected.
@@tahabashir3779 he’s probably a meth cook or something.
Either way, based.
@@zenzenulous2243 breaking bad
@@tahabashir3779 Walter_White_Falling.gif
it is not magic that is fading, it is the natural cycle of all societies that relly on magic.
if magic is the thing that leads to greatness, it is also the thing that leads to decadence and therefore to the eventual downfall, the candle that burns twice as brightly only burns for half as long.
just look at all the great magical empires, they grew fast and died even mroe qiuckly.
the alyeds where whiped out.
the snow elves where enslaved and twisted into beasts.
the dragon cult was whiped out.
the dwemer disapeared.
the mages guild was ended.
house telvanni is only a shadow of it's former self.
winterhold crumbled.
those magical societies and institutions that remain are the proof that the only way for them to avoid destruction is to humble themselfs, the grey beards, the psijic monks and the moth priests are the only groups that will forever stand the test of time.
Wow for a Windhelm Guard you have a pretty open mind on the subject of magic... you sure you not an imperial spy?
any true nord respects the grey beards.
Are the Psijics not a Magicka based society?
Most of these groups were destroyed by external forces and magic had little to do with it. The Dwemer were the only ones to actually be destroyed by magic, if that is even what happened. Also, we don’t know what happened to winterhold, only that a bunch of people who already distrust magic blame the college. Even the mages guild collapsed due to politics and the public turning against magic after the oblivion crisis that the mages guild had nothing to do with. Don’t forget that the empire also uses plenty of magic and that the only reason we don’t see it in Skyrim is the devs literally forgot to add battlemages after you see them once in the opening of the game.
they are but they respect the power of magic
Can you imagine an Elder Scrolls game where restoration became the only valid school of magic?
Yes bethesda is terrified of complex systems anymore.
Hahaha oblivion absorb magicka with weakness to magicka spamming goes brttt
It was a joke about Collette Marence always going on about restoration magic being a valid school of magic :P
julianos is the history channel. hermaus mora is the history channel at 1 am.
Don’t worry the Thalmor will make Julianos and Tamriel great again. And make the Nords pay for it.
If the Thalmor succeeds in their plan, tamriel and the rest of mundus is lost.
@@steekle7 That's the joke
@@couldntthinkofacoolname9608 I'm pretty sure the joke is a reference to Donald Trump
@@whitestrake9311 he is the joke
Yhea cause those nords took our jobs! they took our jobs! tey tok ur jobs! Turpurturtuuiy!
I love lore videos. Could you guys do some on the Aldmeri pantheon? I am curious how Julianos fits into their pantheon, although I've heard he is basically replaced by Magnus.
For a moment I tought you were going to talk about magnus.
I hope mages won't be hunted like in the witcher =(
Unlike Witcher mages, TES mages are op af in lore
@@the_dropbear4392 but we all know how savage human beings can be...I fear for the human mages. While the elves, in all likelihood, will not hunt mages and therefore elves can take refuge in their native countries, humans will not be welcomed there. Maybe morrowind but certainly not summerset or valenwood thanks to the thalmor. What about them?
That would be cool... well no, I like magic too :c
Skyrim being the Worst place for a magi, most likely to be ridiculed and killed for the most minor of infraction and being the victim of rather vicious rumor. Cyrodil would be Better although knowledge overall would be Restricted. Magi forced into service of the empire and only able allowed to learn what would help the service. I don't know enough about Hammerfell to give an opinion, but then you got High Rock which would become the magical Capital. the best place for Magi to learn and grow with the least restrictions.
You also have Elswyr, Which I don't think would remain Thalmor. The alliance is built on loose ground and I forsee a revolt at some point in the future. While not the most hospitable of places for humans it may be tolerant to them at least. Same for Morrowind but there would probably be a lot of Indentured servitude going on.
Ni Maa I agree, that's what I had thought too. I believe in order for the Empire to keep the peace, it may have to ban the worship of Julianos and the practice of Magic.
It can be possible to find refuge in High Rock and Elswyr too. Just Depends though.
Best way to start of and otherwise shity day 💯
Skyrim Vr still got me playing 7 years later sweet video
Julianos isn't forgotten and magic isn't universally shunned. Magic isn't fading, either. People may be wary of mages after the events of Oblivion, that's really it. Skyrim in their old traditions blame mages for it and have since come to distrust mages, but you seem to be forgetting that magic isn't all togther shunned in Skyrim, either. The common folk are perfectly fine w/ restoration and I shouldn't have to tell you, but restoration magic is still magic. Just because they're wary of magic doesn't mean they universally shun it like you present in this video.
restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic, after all.
The Jarls also employ Court Wizards to advice and research, so it is definitely more in the line of commoners distrusting magic, because the ruling class generally doesn't.
It's fairly understandable for Skyrim. Outside of Winterhold every mage you encounter is kind of sketchy, abducting people for experiments and betraying eachother. What did Orthorn do to get locked up?
Meridia, Malacath or Mehrunes Dagon next? really interested in your view on Meridia
Kishin Yami she's been done already
@@Tre98th Nope, checked it many times.
Tre 98th don't lie he hasn't done it
Meridia was covered with the Magne Ge
@@kishinyami1417 Sorry friend, but Drew, Michael, and Scott did an entire series on all of the Daedric Lords before starting this series on the Aedra.
Love you guys at FudgeMuppet, keep up the great work. But you, Drew, have the best voice for videos, always enjoy listening to your shit
For magic to be fading wouldn’t that mean the sun would be disappearing
I mentioned this in an earlier comment, but I think Julianos governs intelligence and reason, and through that, mortalkind's ability to manipilate the ambient magicka that already exists in the world. Without him, yes, the sun would still shine, but we'd be about as magical as mudcrabs.
@@ingonyama70 a magical good mudcrab: yesss, your ignorance will be your doom....(Skyrim Belong to the mudcrabs)
I have a feeling that Julianos would have had a shrine in Winterhold before the collapse, but afterward people stopped trusting him.
Here is just a thought. What if magic isn't fading but it's just weaker in certain locations. Skyrim is full of ignorant warriors. Their lack of worship of Julianos could make magic weaker in Skyrim or seem to be fading. Just my thought on the matter.
If that's the case, then if we ever get to the Summerset Isles we should see some wicked cool spells.
8:41 Dragon break?
Quantum physical aftershock, the force of quantum energy.
Shaking through dimensions of spacetime fabric.
To cause events to happen years later or into the past.
Make Magic Great Again.
Julianus, Jul i anus, that LITERALLY translates to ”Christmas in anus” in Swedish.... what a GODLY NAME
The most powerful military and political power is a magic focused race. The reason magic is less prevalent in Skyrim is because they associate it with the elven races, thus it becomes a reflection of their racism and xenophobia. The Mage's Guild did not dissolve entirely, it split into two groups due to discourse over the study of necromancy and conjuration. Both splinter groups are recognized officially by the Empire. Basically...I have no clue why you think the way you do. Skyrim has always been anti-magic and it's no surprise that they reacted the way they did, but that doesn't mean it's a reflection of the state of magic throughout all of Tamriel.
Gale Anderson the thalmor are actually about equal to the empire... i mean they can’t even take hammerfell
You should extend your knowledge.
Nords have not been against magic (we cannot say Skyrim because it is inhabited by many races with different views), arch-mage Shalidor, for example, is a perfect example, during which' life Nords have been practicing magic on quite a large scale.
That is why Tsun says Nords forgot about their past as magic-users.
Nords distrust magic because if the calamity that happened to Winterhold, it is only after most stopped using it that they came to associate magic with Elves (most Nords were not practicing it, most Elves were at that time).
@@fisebilillah4406 That behavior is still delusional and absurd for the Nords to treat Magic like the many cause, it is an individual or a unfortunate calamity that caused Winterhold to turn like that. Over all, I do enjoy the lore of Elder Scroll, it has a lot of stories of many things.
Jullianos is my Aedra of choice. Skepticism and knowledge? Sign me up.
MAKE TAMRIEL GREAT AGAIN! WORSHIP JULIANOS!
...that's kinda the vibe I get from the Stormcloaks about Talos.
@@ingonyama70 i mean the Man is a Racist but at least his cause is just. Besides true Nord's go down fighting, ulfric doesn't plan on winning against the thalmor, he plans to fight to the last man, which I can deeply respect, if you're going down, go down like a man. Something the imperials didn't quite understand
It's also interesting how badly the imperials damage themselves with this policy, the Thalmore were doing so well in the Great war because of their excellent magic, and also probably didn't abide by the imperial ban on flying magic, thus giving them an airforce.
I think it’s possible magic will end. Ppl will forget not only the gods but the old ways and the mages guild the college and even the psjic order. The telvani wizards were great but they must have been gone too dut to the eruption.
It's really interesting to me how magic fell out of favor after Dagon's attack, but in response to Molag Bal's planemeld, if anything, the Mages Guild got more well-reputed. It's all about how they responded to it, I suppose.
Sadly it fell apart and now we have two organisations at political odds with one another, hoarding artifacts.
Julianos God of NPCs
Elpeo Puru the god of AI
Been enjoying your series immensly keep up the good work. May the divines watch over you all days of your life.
Nah, Skyrim just made it to weak
Unless you use mods, that is..
@@grandadmiralthrawn2023 yeah but mods aren't actually part of Skyrim (in lore at least since they are actually a must have)
@Ace Arch it's still nerfed
@@lukec2004 it's called CHIM lmao
@@lukec2004 That's why the best mods are those that are based in lore.
I guess an intersting possible theme for TES6 could be the resurgence of magic. Like, how inBethesda overhauled how power armor worked and introduced settlement building as new gimmicks for Fallout 4, maybe they could roll out a bunch of new magic-based mechanics for TES6 to get people excited, and they could of course make magic more pivotal to the central story of the game.
IMO magic should start getting weaker overall. Not in actual Power but in the level of skill the Magi have. The Colleges should fade form the public, Becoming small reclusive organizations away from major civilizations. Most cities would have at most 1 or 2 families of mages and lone magi not counting court mages and librarians. While smaller minor villages and town have none, even forgetting mages exist at most may have an Apothecary or Healer. Witch Hunters would begin coming more into power. getting more business and recognition as they hunt the Plentiful amount of Rouge and Hedge mages out in the wilds, sniffing out magic and abominations wherever it may hide.
Places like High Rock become bastion for Magi as they are built as magic. In other provinces Magicks become more restricted, a typical Magi being pressed into military service or being forced to study in secret. Great noble houses becoming reclusive and mysterious with rumors of them being secretly powerful mages down to the lone hedge studying out in the wilds in hopes they can avoid the Hunters.
that sounds like shit
You just got yourself a new subscriber Fudgemuppet
Hello Daddy I love you and your videos.
I hope that ES6 has a well rounded magic system but with lots of variety yet not completely overwhelming
22 like!
I don't think magic will ever truly be forgotten, as there are many aspects of the world that involve magic. Healers and priests use magic to heal the sick and weak. So there will always be Restoration Magic.
Battlemages are far too invaluable to a military to get rid of, so there will always be destruction magic.
Thieves and assassins will always be needed, and those thieves will need invisibility and quiet feet to slip away. So there will always be illusion magic.
#First
I praise him with every stout bolt that strikes my foes every fireball or icicle!
Magnus is my favorite of all the older beings
Magic shall never fade, so long as there are those who wish to learn and teach. My Breton brethren and I shall uphold Julianos and his teachings as well as spreading our knowledge across Tamriel.
I adore how auntie Beth can put references anywhere. The matter of contradiction is actually a problem in the phylosophical discipline of logic, Hegel believed the key to understanding reality lied within contradiction.
Hermaeus Mora is so awsome.
I was thinking about this yesterday.
A lot of advanced magic that has been recorded (lore), seen (aylied ruins etc.) and experienced, compared to what actually can be used, isn't there anymore.
You know what would be great? If fear spells and effects made opponents exit combat. Why use a fear spell in combat if it just makes them run away, forcing you to chase them down?
Thanks for the information! I like to role play when I play Skyrim and right now I’m playing a paladin/battle mage that worships julianos
Good vid… one problem... 7:09 Martin did NOT relight the dragon fires. He destroyed the amulet and used it to turn himself into an avatar of the Akatosh. The fires are still cold. Nirn has no barrier against invasion at the time of Skyrim.
These videos are godly in production quality
You do great work. I always enjoy your videos. Keep on putting out great ES content.
Science and logic are not in conflict with faith (Christianity to be specific).
"The Bible played a positive role in the development of science. Had it not been for the rise of the literal interpretation of the Bible and the subsequent appropriation of biblical narratives by early modern scientists, modern science may not have arisen at all. In sum, the Bible and its literal interpretation have played a vital role in the development of Western science "
Harrison, P., The Bible and the rise of science, Australasian Science 23(3):14-15, 2002.
"Here is a final paradox. Recent work on early modern science has demonstrated a direct (and positive) relationship between the resurgence of the Hebraic, literal exegesis of the Bible in the Protestant Reformation, and the rise of the empirical method in modern science. I’m not referring to wooden literalism, but the sophisticated literal-historical hermeneutics that Martin Luther and others (including Newton) championed."
Snobelen, S., Isaac Newton and Apocalypse Now: a response to Tom Harpur’s ‘Newton’s strange bedfellows’; A longer version of the letter published in the Toronto Star, 2004.
"It was, in part, when this method was transferred to science, when students of nature moved on from studying nature as symbols, allegories and metaphors to observing nature directly in an inductive and empirical way, that modern science was born. In this, Newton also played a pivotal role. As strange as it may sound, science will forever be in the debt of millenarians and biblical literalists."
This is contrary to common (mis)understanding, yet it is well documented. Don't buy into popular myth.
"The “Enlightenment” was conceived initially as a propaganda ploy by militant atheists and humanists [e.g. Voltaire, Diderot and Gibbon] who attempted to claim credit for the rise of science [through promulgating] the falsehood that science required the defeat of religion"
Stark, R., For the Glory of God: How monotheism led to reformations, science, witch-hunts and the end of slavery, Princeton University Press, 2003.
“Science was not the work of western secularists or even deists; it was entirely the work of devout believers in an active, conscious, creator God.
Stark, R., For the Glory of God: How monotheism led to reformations, science, witch-hunts and the end of slavery, Princeton University Press, 2003.
James Hannam, who recently earned a Ph.D. on the History of Science from the University of Cambridge, UK, pointed out:
“During the Middle Ages, the Catholic Church actively supported a great deal of science, which it also kept control of when speculation could impinge on theology. Furthermore and contrary to popular belief, the Church never supported the idea that the earth was flat, never banned human dissection, never banned zero and certainly never burnt anyone at the stake for scientific ideas.”
“Popular opinion, journalistic cliché and misinformed historians not withstanding, recent research has shown that the Middle Ages were a period of enormous advances in science, technology and culture. The compass, paper, printing, stirrups and gunpowder all appeared in Western Europe between AD 500 and AD 1500.
Hannam, J., God’s Philosophers: How the Medieval World Laid the Foundations of Modern Science, 2007
These videos are so informative and it's wonderful
Wonderful video, look forward to more!!! Cheers
May Stendarr have mercy on you... for the Vigilants have none to spare.
Stendarr's Vigilants aren't mage hunters, they only go after Daedra, Daedra worshippers, and the undead. Granted, conjurers and necromancers are a type of mage, but your average Destruction/Restoration user, item Enchanter, or Alteration expert who worships the Eight (or Nine) ought to be fine.
Just because magic is frowned upon in the 4th Era, that does not necessarily mean that Julianos is neglected. There are still scholars, philosophers, educators, and historians who revere him. Unlike wizards and sorceresses, those individuals are still widely respected. Even magic hating Nords respect learned historians.
Good video! Thanks for uploading!
Fudgemuppet, PhD, Daedrology
Our lecture today... Julianos, the forgotten god.
You guys should upload you’re videos to a podcast platform, keep up the great work.