Can I just double down on how important I think the "it needed new enemies" part is? I would even have accepted simple reskins, but I honestly think they needed to do SOMETHING. Like, you simply cannot take whats normally a fairly chumpy elite enemy and just give them better stats than Patriot. I don't care if the passives are the same, when it starts oneshotting the majority of ops in the game it is no longer the same enemy and you shouldn't pretend it is. Like, I know what it takes to deal with Companion Guards. I know what it takes to deal with Companion Guards who have been buffed to high heaven thanks to IS, so I saw one spawn in stage A and thought "OK, it's an enemy I understand. I can rely on my pre-existing knowledge to come up with a strategy and focus on the boss". It felt BAD going though the stage a few times watching him dismantle stronger and stronger ops who should have been able to handle that type of enemy no sweat. In the end I decided "Man I do not feel like going back to the drawing board to figure out how to deal with Generic Dublin Mook #3 on crack. The rewards are trash anyways I'm out." The event was still executed terribly but there's something incredibly disheartening about getting obliterated by enemies you already think of as generally pretty weak. I truly believe if they'd just reskinned them as like "Diablo-Revenants" or something it'd have gone from "man it feels terrible that I'm struggling vs these things" to "wow this new enemy is nasty, it'll feel good to beat it." Honestly I feel like simple psychological stuff like that is one of DoS's biggest failings. CC makes you go "Heh, this stage is too easy. Time to pump up the difficulty to show how strong I am.", then DoS goes "lmao nice try dork. Too hard for you? You want to enable baby mode?" When the rewards are as mid as they are you can't really afford to do that sorta stuff if you want people to engage with content.
My favorite part about new cc is the fact that first enemy buffs you need to do for reward are "enemies have 1000000% stats and you have 10%" They are known for being so fun and cool to play and give great impression of the event!
"Hey, what if we locked the most highly desired reward of the event behind a challenge set that makes all operators have approximately 2 HP and also there's poison haze on the map? Players will love that, don't you think? Its such a unique challenge that really engages with a lot of the game's systems!" -one of the devs at HG
"Hey you want to unlock Plume's New skin?" "Heck Yeah" "Okay. Take this stack of [de]buffs that makes it so the most basic bitch enemies can 1v1 your 5-6* Vanguards and Win" ". . ." Yeah, fuck that.
@@cemanz yeah, with that young of an account, don't even bother. Theres no way you're going to have enough operators at your disposal or even have the operators sufficiently built if you have the ones you need
Here is something I don't understand, why do they put so much work into SSS? I mean, look at the interesting/weird bosses they designed for each different map, just to have them thrown away after a few months, even in Annihilation we have these events were all maps become farmable again so if you missed one you can experience them again, but for SSS they are just thrown away, including a whole new boss design... for what?
I agree that adding more unique art / music would've gone a long way for giving DoS its own identity. It's something I'm happy with in CCB#2, they brought back different BGMs for low risk/high risk (whatever those thresholds are) and to me that already makes a big difference. Aside from that, my theory for why rewards for high difficulty stuff are so bad nowadays (meanwhile RA2 showers you with chips and module blocks) is so people that don't want to tryhard don't miss out on much (though as you mentioned, something like risk 18 in previous CCs was good enough). I feel like past a certain point, rewards do nothing for people that want hard content. Nobody cancels Gladiia auto attacks for hours (CC#9) for in-game rewards anyway.
Yep exactly, so there's no reason to gate rewards behind uber tryhardy shit because the people who want to do those couldn't care less about in game rewards
When I was playing DoS, I also thought about how stupid the buff system was. Like, bro, you made a whole buff system, yet I can't use it because I won't get full rewards and can't access the next stages? It's like finishing an operation with 2 stars.
One thing i dont like is that you have to use some risks just to get to the other which i find to be a bad implementation and what I miss about original cc
This so much Back in the day if you sucked with a tag you could just... Not pick it... Now you actually HAVE to deal with it to get any further and if you're really bad with it, then tough luck because that entire tree is closed off to you permanently. It's just stupid and single handedly ruins it for me. What do you mean i HAVE to turbo buff the murloc shaman that fart corruption when they go under 50% hp in order to limit the size of my squad and reduce dp regen??? Why? Just why! Just let me pick either independently it's not that hard dammit
You have to consider that making risks dependend on other risks enlarge the design space for balancing. For example buffs for Nethersea Brand are irrelevant if no Nethersea Brand is present on the map. So it is natural to lock these risks behind starting with some NB.
That's a great way to put it, DoS should've been CC in reverse and the buffs shouldn't have retracted from your score. Players should be able to get the rewards and then feel challenged to try without the buffs. If the rewards are behind what is equivalent of a max risk CC map (such as S-3) nobody cares. I remember seeing no S-3 videos because the bar for entry was pretty much Suzuran/Shamare spam w/ 8 high dps 6*s. It's purely a numbers game and that's no fun.
@@SmokuZnadPotoku actually not really, Cardi skin just required A-3 + some Trauma waves cleared (afaik you only had to fully complete one of the five maps) but for sure it was still bs
@@coldcallerloopy I mean all the rewards, not only the worthy ones but yeah. Of course realistically no one would care about 5k LMD rewards on higher levels but still blocked rewards are blocked rewards. Besides that, it was really pure trolling, forcing the players to use meta to clear S-3 and then rewarding them with some shitty 5k (a few times) LMD xD
The way i envisioned they could make dos a fun mode, is by fully embracing it as big boss fight, where you fight the new event boss and his henchmen that are other bosses(3-5), while you have infinite dp, deployment slots, increased max. number of operators, decreased redeployment time and operators are forcefully retreated after 20-30 seconds. And for buffs you can do something stupid, where bosses will be a danger for each other. Like if there is an aerial boss, like minimalist, patriot will throw his spear at him instead of operators; endspeaker eats other bosses as long as they have less than 50% hp(except the event boss); while damatzi is not revealed and blocked, other bosses will not attack your operators etc. And every boss represents a class buff and mechanic buff(like if you pick endspeaker buff, your supporters have increased sp regen and mold starts also effecting bosses).
I’ll be honest I didn’t even realize the whole gimmick was to use the buffs, and I just assumed they were there for newer players or something at first. I got so frustrated because I was playing without buffs I eventually just gave up. It could have been done so well and been so cool. I do hope they come back to the concept and give it some more love.
Honestly I think the main thing keeping DOS from general acceptance was the absurd stat bloat on the non boss enemies. The boss was actually really neat mechanically, but the elite enemies that have more health than the boss it feels like? Basically the enemy equivalent of filler.
They actually did implement a boss that gets more abilities on harder stages: Rosmontis from Vector Breakthrough is exactly that, and she looks pretty dope! Can't wait to see it on EN!
A type of challenge event I'd really like to see, even if HG has leaned away from ideas like that after the first year or so, is difficult stages with a fixed operator lineup focused on a gimmick or strategy. For example, a stage where you have a Sleep focused team and you need to carefully use the sleep enablers and sleep damage dealers to counter. Or a team of all stalling ops like Gravel, Ethan, Weedy, Angelina, etc. against hyper buffed enemies you have to chip down with a stage hazard like lava tile or something. Get people to try ideas and look at things in a way besides bringing 10 nuclear warheads a medic and myrtle and blowing everything up.
As an old CC lover, I just don't like so many things about the new CC. 1. I'm forced to take a tag I don't want if I want to take the tag after that and there's no checkpoint for it while I could do just that in old cc. 2. The daily maps were so much more fun than the rotating maps today. we get a lot of variety of strats for each day 3. The point system. I don't need bloated numbers just to feel like I did something. Risk 18, 21, etc was a lot simpler and better. The ONLY thing I can think of that I like from the new CC compared to the new CC are the days you can take before beating the rotating stage. As for DOS, like what Silvergun said, it had potential for the buffs but they instead made it a demerit to take them
I disagree on the daily part. There are a lot of variety on old maps because we have _more maps_ on old CC. CC2 dailies felt like a breath of fresh air, not necessarily by giving you freedom on how to deal with it, but precisely by having a set of rules you have to abide (the VG "ban", 1p relay, summoner only, etc.); older dailies felt more like Main-map-lite instead of a unique "of its own" kind of experience. I also prefer the new dailies because they don't rotate away if I miss out on that certain day (though the bounty rewards still missable).
@@haveiszalfaroqie1628 and that was what I liked on the old cc. We had a lot of variety, especially so since it also changed daily, even when it was only 6 or 7 maps that loop, the available risks changes. With this new CC, it doesn't matter even if we're on CC12, things won't change much because there's only 4 rotating maps per CC. Sure, 1 or 2 of those maps may end up with unique restrictions but that is something the old CC can also do by simply adding the same thing to their risks. You like no VG risk? Done, this old CC map can give that to you, have fun. You like 1p relay? Done, there are old CC maps that can accommodate that kind of risk, have fun as well. But then what about the new CC? You want more maps to play with? Too bad, you're stuck with 4 maps/CC. You don't like the Risks for this specific map? Too bad, that's the only thing you'll have cause none of them gets a new risk after some days and if you don't clear it you're gonna miss a bigger reward than if you missed a day or two of the old daily CC maps
What is really cool in the new CC is how they integrated the skin/(old)operator and banner into the CC grid, so you can play for them, but also buy them if you missed them. I don't like that you have to take some tags because you want to get something behind it, but I think for a few branches it makes sense, I think a mix of old CC and some of the new CC branches would be cool.
@@sola3147 Old CC can do but ultimately didn't, hence the main-map-lite; it feels like main-map, just with fewer risk selections. Yes, we can convert old dailies to adopt the unique restrictions we have in new, but that would be just a lazy slap-on and won't have the same experience were the map to be designed ground up. 1prelay has added restrictions of destructible melee-tile, enforcing that 1prelay plays; the friendly shieldguards hyperbuff/elimination requires specific map design for the shieldguards be meaningful, the same with "melee-only" Jesselton. New dailies felt like beyond what existing mechanic we have in its regular event counterpart. Tbf, the new Leithanien tower maps is quite literally about "regular event" mechanics, a stage about gramophones, but I like them and I don't think we ever got a daily that is as focused and intense on them as this one. In the meantime, old dailies are what I consider as "event content recycle", where they p much use existing mechanic and only amplified them without adding new layers that make them feel fresh; Area 6 Ruins is p much just W bossfight; at least Deserted Factory has smoke vents and super-buffed Avengers to synergize with Faust; the drone maps (Abandoned High Rise, East Armory, Abandoned Plot) are quite novel on their first appearance, but they quickly devolve to that _community favorite drone maps_ (at least East Armory has the gimmick of drone jammer device, so that's something). You can't just slap on "VG ban", or summon only, or 1prelay to them and call it a day. Old dailies have highs and lows, but these are par the course for having lots of maps. As for the new dailies, all of them have been a big +1 from me, though time will tell if they can keep this quality up until foreseeable future. And no, I don't necessarily want more maps to play with. I have a paper to work on and I won't be able to devote that much intensive time to clear CCs, especially were the dailies rotate every day. This can only work if we have fewer dailies in a given CC runtime; were the dailies don't rotate but still have 7 maps, that doesn't solve my issue of not having time to clear them all; my only free time are just weekend, after all. I just want a fun map where I can clear it creatively (and in different ways) rather than filling the quota with uninspired stage designs. To quote Silver himself: stupid bullshit map where we can do our own stupid bulshittery.
@@zomfgroflmao1337 Yep, I agree with the play for the skin and banner or pay later part. The forced tag is just so ass imo. We had a lot more freedom in the old cc so people could go for easier or more complex tag combos unless they were doing max risk so people were able to make flexible strats for themselves if they wanted.
I think the new current gamemode in CN is actually DOS 2.0 but with major issues fixed, as they not longer punished you adding buff but only make you sacrifice some of your ops in side stages which basically Trauma Intervention Also you can now grinding for rewards just like TFN
I'd like to not just have "haha big stat stick for everyone" as end game content. Like in CC#9 Deepness, you can go pretty wild with the risks. I'd like to try that version but without the giga stat bloats. Couldn't be that bad, right? Stuffs like seaborn eggs can deal elemental damage from 4 blocks away at ho thresholds, sleepwalking flowers will put everyone in a coma in 2 seconds if enraged or 2 camouflaged elites will mow through your entire squad if not dealt with correctly. Dumb mechanics feel better to deal with than slapping +220% hp and atk on everything. Why is this peon winning my Bagpipe again? Boss mechanics in DoS feels pretty good actually, turning everyone into a FRD if used correctly, his fire balls didn't take that much to clear. It's just that he takes forever to kill and everything else also takes forever to kill. Kinda lame that they decided to go that way. Stat bloats are only fine to an extent, I'd like to see something interesting.
@@abrahamwijaya6631 You can, but she won't be a rate-up operator. That being said, she's a 4-star, so if you plan to roll a lot for Wis'adel, you're bound to get her.
issue with cc is they give +500% stats to basic mobs and call it a day instead of introducing new gameplay elements or putting in more bosses and elites so the power levels between story and cc aren't a dramatic shift from what you're used to another issue with ccb2 is how it forces you to abandon melee and pretty much go full ranged
Honestly, the same issue with IS risk levels. I love that later IS have started to change enemies/mechanics instead of just stat buffs, and wish they do away with the stat buffs altogether and the levels only swap out enemies/maps to harder versions.
Honestly, one thing I really liked is the idea of a boss that has multiple stages, having more stuff going on with each one, that really feels like boss is evolving while you gradually learn about it before facing the final challenge. Considering I like Trials for Navigator a lot, because usually bosses are the most interesting part of the game in Arknights (they actually do different things and not 10 shield guards with different stats or whatever), and the whole game mode specifically centered around those? Sign me up! But one of the things that are great about TN is, as you mentioned, buffs they give you. TN#3 with that insane Yan squad with Sui siblings for free (missed opportunity to add something similar after Shu release to use her faction buff smh), TN#4 with extra damage against bound and stunned enemies when Ray already exists (and obliterates everything with that buff) and you still get all the rewards, and you still can choose to challenge yourself with going on spectacular without a squad buff, I really hope they did DoS similar to that but just focus on one boss instead of boss rush kinda thing, but we got one of the hilariously stat bloated gamemodes in existence, and that's despite 4 million HP bots being an actual thing right before that
Aside from the ass backwards implementation of the uninteresting "buffs" is that they should have went all in and made new enemies or even just slap DoS drip reskin to know that yeah these guys are the badass mf. The presence of regular enemies with OG SSS statbloat stick out like overflowing sewage. Why am I bothering fighting you instead of the boss? If those were Diablo Apocalypse Tanks or something like that I would actually be fine dealing with that insane toughness coz cool new badass enemy I wanna fight. The boss I have zero qualms with even if it kicks my balls out through my eyesockets, he's cool, unique and flashy with interesting mechanics.
This is the kind of commentary that should have been around in the community when DoS was actually live. It's unfortunate that the mode was just done so spectacularly badly that people immediately wrote it off and didn't bother to engage with it all. People are genuinely willing to engage in conversation if they actually care about something as was seen by everyone and their mother having an opinion on Viviana when she released on global. What baffles me is that this outcome was so easily predictable by anyone with a brain. Whenever HG get any kind of negative feedback on a new mode, they seem to just toss a coin on whether to iterate and attempt to improve upon it or just can it entirely. The genuine biggest miss of the mode imo was the buff system. It existed effectively solely to penalise you and strip rewards away from you so most people felt the objectively correct decision was never to use any of the buffs at all. At that point, why was it even in the mode to begin with? It was as pointless as the support buff you could get in old CC where it would just instantly set you to risk 0 no matter what tags you took. Having played another game that actually implemented crazy buff systems in a game mode, I can attest that they were *insanely* fun and gave some good gameplay variety even if many of the buffs were mindbogglingly broken and removed pretty much all of the challenge from the mode.
I forgot cc part 2 exist coz id rather play is than that crap. I wouldnt have even noticed its out today if not for this video coz i only use my sanity then do base then play is4 for a while till i get pissed off from the bad rng then close the game. In fact in cc2-1 i was procrastinating thinking ill do the bare minimum in the last day only to forget it's existence and missed out on everything other than the daily side maps lol
Honestly, I really liked the survival based mode in DoS, probably my favourite part about it. I don’t need to do a dps race to kill insanely buffed enemies before they walk into my blue box, I can use a variety of stall options that often don’t normally shine. Too bad it took them like… 3+ years to reiterate on Pallas’ operator locking design with the new CN event. And not to mention how long RA and IS took to become permanent. So I don’t exactly have hope of them giving a fix anytime soon…
Give more medals instead of rewards to tryhards, I wouldn't mind a shiny medal for my effort I could put on display. Also allow players to clear these later (maybe with some sort of ticket system) like old events.
The habit of introducing a mechanic but immediately discouraging the use of that mechanic seems to be a trend in games lately. A lot of roguelikes struggle with it. While I think there’s a need for story-light and gameplay-heavy events, I do think DoS needed to be story-light, not story-free. A little more context and framing for the maps would have given people more reason to play and remember them.
My idea for the rewards being accessible is to make it so players can get their hands on trial units (like in Trials for Navigator) to clear these hard maps once you kill a specific amount of enemies/a boss, plus some buffs that *don't* affect the score (also like in TfN)
I think another problem of DoS was not only it expected me to go high risk for rewards, it also didnt allow me to repeat a lower map to get the rewards, like what happens with TFN for example. If im masochist enough I can get all the rewards from map 1, while DoS didnt even allow me have that option.
i deadass didnt even know DoS had a buff system bc i used a guide for most of it and thus never actually failed a stage. but i wholeheartedly agree on the fact that you had to tryhard SO HARD to get all the rewards and for what? shit rewards. i loved that CC R18 gave you all the rewards, it was challenging enough and god knows it took me so many tries for CC2 (the real CC2 operation blade) bc i was still fairly new but those are also some of my favourite moments. sometimes id try higher in CC like i think my highest was R22 but like it was there for those who WANT to tryhard (which isnt me). DoS had me debating if i really wanted the cardigan skin and she isnt even that far in the rewards.
If i'm being honest, the reason why I didn't take any buffs is not because I didn't know about them or where they were, but because I thought that taking them would mean you get less rewards. En can't read moment or smth ig
I actually had my fun with dos and got a full difficulty clear. I found the S stage easier than the a stage actually because the routing was simpler. I just really enjoyed the the boss itself and the map with the magma sprouts. It‘s also neat lorewise, as a recreation of past events which could reveal some funky bosses. My only issue was the stat bloat. It very much felt tough because the enemies were chunky as all hell. That wouldn‘t be a problem if you weren‘t being punished as hard for taking the buffs. They should‘ve made more buffs you can take with less impact on your rewards and it would all be fine. So you could idk, halve the difficulty of the s stage and still get all the rewards
Like, its petty much as you saidm the concpet is right there. Try stage, if you are a god you succeed, but 99.99999% of players will be defeated cause its overtuned. But in return you get some EXP like IS, and on level up you unlock a random buff. Then you try the stage again with the new buff, which lets you get a bit further, that gives more EXP, which unlocks more buffs, etc. Then you can have a system of "do this task/use these specific buffs to gain bonus EXP/unlock this specific buff." So "knock X enemy into the hole at the top left of the map." Which would need either some real coordination or some pusher/puller buffs. Or "kill the stage boss with volcano burn damage." Or something. So its progression based where you stack bullshit with random buffs until you unlock them all or clear the stage earlier. The challenge for older players being "how many buffs can you turn off to clear it?" Vs. New players turning on all buffs to clear it, with some reward incentive to clear it with all buffs enabled.
I said it at the time DoS was actually a solid mode or at least had the potential to be. The timed wave mode is genuinely something I would have loved to see them build upon. The boss growing stronger over a number of maps would be great if the boss didn't absolutely obliterate you as you went up
I didn’t even know there was a buff menu. It was so hidden. Only knew about it because a discord friend told me about it, and had to guide me to find it. I cleared everything and got the rewards without even using them. UI can easily kill an event.
The problem with new CC is that you need to do a much more difficult stage than before, while the variety of risks is basically the same and it also forces you to pick some risks that you don't want to access a completely different risk. I mean in the old system for risk 18 you could go with many strategies, now after a certain point all the strategies look the same. Here in CCb2 you are forced to use ranged operators, have elemental damage or freeze, Lin is in literally every squad etc. The point of CC for me never was using meta operators to beat enemies that have 40k hp, I liked CC because it made you think about what risks to pick, how to change your strategy based on that risk and what operator can help you in this new situation. Now it's just "No matter what you do, you have to pick these risks to reach 540 / 620 so your strategy needs to be a specific way to deal with them" To fix it just add more risks and separate them. This way even though it's the same stage you feel like doing something different each run. Maybe even make challenges with good rewards for some possible strategies to make players try them.
@@DrSilvergun One thing that's weird about that event is that the stages with Phase 1 and Phase 2 of the boss are unlocked but the stage with the full power boss is locked for 4 more days.
The new Vector Breakthrough is DOS rework. Kinda, sorta. Rosmontis has those DOS-style evolving boss design, she even follow the code of the DOS boss in the enemy archive. Shame the trauma stage doesn't follow, I love that particular part of DOS
I don’t like the new point system but I like the ui because it tells you at least what each category does. In normal cc you could have some unrelated enemy changes next to eachother and it’s like why are you there lol it doesn’t make sense for organization
i do agree but one thing to add could be that each trauma stage completed gives a budget of buffs that dont effect the score, that way people feel like they have earned a power up and further encourages creative use of buffs with a limited set due to time gating while anyone that is struggling can think "ok ill come back later to do the other trauma stages"
yeah OLD cc had support risks like that prevented you from getting score but let you shit stomp the map Was happy when I saw a less extreme version of that in POO dailies
I only saw the old CC on videos, but it looked way more fun. I played CCB1 and not CCB2 and tbh since I can only reach 400 points, I stop messing with it after that. Also Bolivarian supremacy.
Oh yeah, I forgot about DOS for a bit. I just wanted the cute little cardigan skin and then pretended this never existed, tbh. Didn’t even know or remembered that we had buffs. I dunno, DOS wasn’t really that significant to me outside of getting that skin. I don’t know what my opinion is on CC overall. I haven’t played much of the old CC since I was new at the time, so I wanted to try out the new CC more. I did get all the medals for CCB1 and plan to do so for CCB2 though (CCB2 is sort of a walk in the park compared to the previous, I already scored 620 points for the trimmed medal the day the new CC came out). I guess I don’t think CCB is the worst thing ever or anything; in fact, maybe I like it personally. I don’t mind the new UI either, though I didn’t notice the little toggle for the contracts in the bottom left corner among other things. Also, Lutonada is adorable.
I just want to know what they were thinking when they made DOS. "Ah lets make a stat bloat JUST LIKE CC but remove risks and change them with punishing SUPER small buffs that makes you feel like a failure for picking them!" Like no way they made DOS after 3 years+ of CC experience and knowing POOa failed hard lmao
I don't think DoS with its buffs instead of risks should fully replace CC since they still feel quite different, but yeah it could definitely have been explored further. Hot take I actually liked the DoS map and boss; but I kinda ran out of time to beat it lol
DOS last stage (its S-3 i think?)completely fold me over and i'm okay with , my only hope they make more permanent endgame after reception from CC#2 looks like they're giving up making game mode slightly challenging and want to play safe. i hope not
I love DoS, i think that everything untill s-3 was really fun, especially for my relatively new account, since i had to compensate hard for underleveled and under mastery-ed OPs. And the boss was super cool. I loved abusing his bind to gain an FRD Typhon. I do agree that the buff system was hot garbage and needs a rework tho. It truely felt awful to even consider using the buffs. Personaly i really want DoS continued, or at least a rerun of the DoS we got. I will say tho that I dont get why CC Underdawn wasn't well recieved. Imo it's really fun, and while seaborn suck, the iteration that CC forces you to do is something arknights needs even more of, especially since normal maps require your sanity, which you may want to devote elsewhere. I really hope HG doesn't scrap CC, I would be really salty if I only ever get to experience 2 CCs before they die. Also why does everyone hate the new CC UI? While there are a few gripes I have, I think it looks and feels great. Very intuitive. I dont get the weird risk categories tho.
I have a feeling this point was made multiple times already. And if the main reason Dos is bad is because buffs was bad, but the concept is fine. Then I don't understand the hate CC gets. The risks are not great but the concept is fine and current system is way better then older one, with rotating old maps insted of a couple new ones. And I complitely understand that they just can't make full new 5 maps every single time. They need a time to develope them. But people seems to forget that.
dos 1 was so enjoyable S3 is my most favorite stage in the entire game. To counter the bullshit boss, you need to use his mechanic against him which is really fun. Im just really bummed about the upcoming because of wisadel. It will most likely be balanced around her
It was very much not Idk where people get this fantasy that HG balance the game around meta 6* It's never been true and the game has never scaled to the level meta 6* since back when eyja released 5 years ago
I enjoyed this mode somehow but I hate the fact that you needed a set of operators to clear it.. HG could have at least made it permanent so people can clear it later using newer operators available.. could have been a new testing ground and Patriot can finally retire
Ah rewards for endgame or challenges in gacha games are always such a dilemma. You cant put a lot of good rewards in there since its hard so not everyone can get it (either account check, dont have enough skill or others) and they feel miss out but on the opposite if there is no good rewards, casuals like myself will just skip it entirely anyway. IIRC there was like a single pull ticket in the reward and that was also a bit high up I think? Saw that and I instantly lose any motivation to try the mode since I am not on the try hard side of thing.
If challenging events are only worth doing for their reward I think they already failed. I'm not a fan of how Arknights does difficulty or rewards. Inflating stats or giving enemies frustrating gimmicks doesn't feel good. Designing events for player retention instead of fun and having the most sought after rewards deep in the reward list makes early progression or rewards feel as if the devs are not valuing player time. I absolutely despise IS since It's not only heavy rng but it's also more punishing for less developed rosters (in a gacha game) for not having good units to progress faster. They tried to remedy it with fixed squads later but I still don't like the mode or the time sink, other events have this issue too and I don't feel like putting in many hours in them when they don't feel fun so I end up skipping most events that focus on artificial difficulty or grinding. Last time I played IS I skipped a stage I knew my current line-up couldn't beat only to get a more difficult version of the same stage right after. It happened so frequently I just quit the mode all together. I'm missing out on characters and skins for characters I like just because many modes feel bad due to poor application. IS' only saving grace is it's permanent. Limited time events should not have sought after rewards at all.
make a buff gimmick where chance based talent/skill now become guaranteed >:) no I'm not talking about ethan, I'm talking about Gitano and Qiubai :'v *edit* also why just reduce weight, why not also reverse enemies weight? ;)
Meanwhile, in the real world, the actual issue with DoS was the insane stat bloat making the enemies a way bigger threat than the relatively easy to manage boss lmao. A mode that makes the boss actually a major threat like you describe would be awesome, but in DoS the boss I had to throw literally everything at was some disgruntled catboys...
The best systems and gimmicks in Arknights empower the player, the punishing ones are the worst and are frustrating to deal with Also being punished for using them makes them worthless
Lutonada is so peak
omg hi tums
Common defender w
"Making really stupid bullshit stages, that you then need to counter with your own stupid bullshit"
Perfect summary of what makes AK fun
TBH this is the main reason I prefer IS3 to IS4. IS3 gives you so much stupid bullshit to work with on a decently lucky run.
You may like Dominions 6
That part about homeless Italian. I feel like its refering so someone specific... hmmmmm
I hope he's not truly homeless...
Wait, I just realized Silvergun probably meant a different Italian than I was thinking
The chocolate pasta hater?
Or the unhinged Gummy obsessed one?
Who knows?
@@sbadigliodallanoia3963 I initially thought the rage in chapter 4 one but now I think the sentient train is more likely
DoS buff is perfect trade offer:
You lose ability to access next stage if you win
You lose on reward EXP
You gain:
+10% Defender HP
you can immediately tell it was sponsored by Kazimier chamber of commerce
Even trade baby
@@godo9358 Give award to this man.
Can I just double down on how important I think the "it needed new enemies" part is? I would even have accepted simple reskins, but I honestly think they needed to do SOMETHING.
Like, you simply cannot take whats normally a fairly chumpy elite enemy and just give them better stats than Patriot. I don't care if the passives are the same, when it starts oneshotting the majority of ops in the game it is no longer the same enemy and you shouldn't pretend it is. Like, I know what it takes to deal with Companion Guards. I know what it takes to deal with Companion Guards who have been buffed to high heaven thanks to IS, so I saw one spawn in stage A and thought "OK, it's an enemy I understand. I can rely on my pre-existing knowledge to come up with a strategy and focus on the boss". It felt BAD going though the stage a few times watching him dismantle stronger and stronger ops who should have been able to handle that type of enemy no sweat. In the end I decided "Man I do not feel like going back to the drawing board to figure out how to deal with Generic Dublin Mook #3 on crack. The rewards are trash anyways I'm out."
The event was still executed terribly but there's something incredibly disheartening about getting obliterated by enemies you already think of as generally pretty weak. I truly believe if they'd just reskinned them as like "Diablo-Revenants" or something it'd have gone from "man it feels terrible that I'm struggling vs these things" to "wow this new enemy is nasty, it'll feel good to beat it."
Honestly I feel like simple psychological stuff like that is one of DoS's biggest failings. CC makes you go "Heh, this stage is too easy. Time to pump up the difficulty to show how strong I am.", then DoS goes "lmao nice try dork. Too hard for you? You want to enable baby mode?" When the rewards are as mid as they are you can't really afford to do that sorta stuff if you want people to engage with content.
At least RA1 gave you free pulls if you slogged through it, also you know, all the new game mode stuff lol
My favorite part about new cc is the fact that first enemy buffs you need to do for reward are "enemies have 1000000% stats and you have 10%"
They are known for being so fun and cool to play and give great impression of the event!
"Hey, what if we locked the most highly desired reward of the event behind a challenge set that makes all operators have approximately 2 HP and also there's poison haze on the map? Players will love that, don't you think? Its such a unique challenge that really engages with a lot of the game's systems!"
-one of the devs at HG
"Hey you want to unlock Plume's New skin?"
"Heck Yeah"
"Okay. Take this stack of [de]buffs that makes it so the most basic bitch enemies can 1v1 your 5-6* Vanguards and Win"
". . ."
Yeah, fuck that.
As a 2-months doctor, I simply give up on the Plume skin, I cant budge the enemy
@@cemanz yeah, with that young of an account, don't even bother. Theres no way you're going to have enough operators at your disposal or even have the operators sufficiently built if you have the ones you need
@@cemanz risk 540 was easier than Plume skin.
Here is something I don't understand, why do they put so much work into SSS? I mean, look at the interesting/weird bosses they designed for each different map, just to have them thrown away after a few months, even in Annihilation we have these events were all maps become farmable again so if you missed one you can experience them again, but for SSS they are just thrown away, including a whole new boss design... for what?
RIP Slow rolling Death Boulder Cyclops that looks permanently disappointed in you
Also why do they make up farm SSS at all smh
The first clear is pmuch the only interesting one anyways
I agree that adding more unique art / music would've gone a long way for giving DoS its own identity. It's something I'm happy with in CCB#2, they brought back different BGMs for low risk/high risk (whatever those thresholds are) and to me that already makes a big difference. Aside from that, my theory for why rewards for high difficulty stuff are so bad nowadays (meanwhile RA2 showers you with chips and module blocks) is so people that don't want to tryhard don't miss out on much (though as you mentioned, something like risk 18 in previous CCs was good enough). I feel like past a certain point, rewards do nothing for people that want hard content. Nobody cancels Gladiia auto attacks for hours (CC#9) for in-game rewards anyway.
Yep exactly, so there's no reason to gate rewards behind uber tryhardy shit because the people who want to do those couldn't care less about in game rewards
When I was playing DoS, I also thought about how stupid the buff system was. Like, bro, you made a whole buff system, yet I can't use it because I won't get full rewards and can't access the next stages? It's like finishing an operation with 2 stars.
One thing i dont like is that you have to use some risks just to get to the other which i find to be a bad implementation and what I miss about original cc
The thing where you have to unlock risks was always super annoying
Felt like busy work before you can play the map properly
@@DrSilvergunthats also true but being able to select the ones we want and dont want was so good
This so much
Back in the day if you sucked with a tag you could just... Not pick it... Now you actually HAVE to deal with it to get any further and if you're really bad with it, then tough luck because that entire tree is closed off to you permanently.
It's just stupid and single handedly ruins it for me.
What do you mean i HAVE to turbo buff the murloc shaman that fart corruption when they go under 50% hp in order to limit the size of my squad and reduce dp regen???
Why? Just why! Just let me pick either independently it's not that hard dammit
Tbh this is pretty much the only gripe people have with the new CC changes gameplay-wise, the rest were actually good changes, as far as I can tell.
You have to consider that making risks dependend on other risks enlarge the design space for balancing. For example buffs for Nethersea Brand are irrelevant if no Nethersea Brand is present on the map. So it is natural to lock these risks behind starting with some NB.
That's a great way to put it, DoS should've been CC in reverse and the buffs shouldn't have retracted from your score. Players should be able to get the rewards and then feel challenged to try without the buffs. If the rewards are behind what is equivalent of a max risk CC map (such as S-3) nobody cares. I remember seeing no S-3 videos because the bar for entry was pretty much Suzuran/Shamare spam w/ 8 high dps 6*s. It's purely a numbers game and that's no fun.
Yeah, DoS S-3 was literally meta check, nothing else. Also, as you mentioned, the rewards were hidden behind it and that was pure evil.
@@SmokuZnadPotoku actually not really, Cardi skin just required A-3 + some Trauma waves cleared (afaik you only had to fully complete one of the five maps) but for sure it was still bs
@@coldcallerloopy I mean all the rewards, not only the worthy ones but yeah. Of course realistically no one would care about 5k LMD rewards on higher levels but still blocked rewards are blocked rewards.
Besides that, it was really pure trolling, forcing the players to use meta to clear S-3 and then rewarding them with some shitty 5k (a few times) LMD xD
@@SmokuZnadPotoku yea lol
The way i envisioned they could make dos a fun mode, is by fully embracing it as big boss fight, where you fight the new event boss and his henchmen that are other bosses(3-5), while you have infinite dp, deployment slots, increased max. number of operators, decreased redeployment time and operators are forcefully retreated after 20-30 seconds.
And for buffs you can do something stupid, where bosses will be a danger for each other. Like if there is an aerial boss, like minimalist, patriot will throw his spear at him instead of operators; endspeaker eats other bosses as long as they have less than 50% hp(except the event boss); while damatzi is not revealed and blocked, other bosses will not attack your operators etc. And every boss represents a class buff and mechanic buff(like if you pick endspeaker buff, your supporters have increased sp regen and mold starts also effecting bosses).
Dos could bring back old bosses and give them a glow up imagine fighting patriot in his prime or a healthy frostnova.
Would be down with that yeah
glow up patrick is in is5 tho :D
Um that was ToN😂
@@DrSilvergunthat's nice. I never played IS. Don't like it.
They could have done a Naruto and brought back Skullshatterer and Frostnova from the dead.
A Dos where only bosses spawn
Dos 2 could be peak if the boss isn't a literal hell demon
How about an angry, Uber buffed cat loli?
I’ll be honest I didn’t even realize the whole gimmick was to use the buffs, and I just assumed they were there for newer players or something at first. I got so frustrated because I was playing without buffs I eventually just gave up. It could have been done so well and been so cool. I do hope they come back to the concept and give it some more love.
Honestly I think the main thing keeping DOS from general acceptance was the absurd stat bloat on the non boss enemies. The boss was actually really neat mechanically, but the elite enemies that have more health than the boss it feels like? Basically the enemy equivalent of filler.
They actually did implement a boss that gets more abilities on harder stages: Rosmontis from Vector Breakthrough is exactly that, and she looks pretty dope! Can't wait to see it on EN!
A type of challenge event I'd really like to see, even if HG has leaned away from ideas like that after the first year or so, is difficult stages with a fixed operator lineup focused on a gimmick or strategy. For example, a stage where you have a Sleep focused team and you need to carefully use the sleep enablers and sleep damage dealers to counter. Or a team of all stalling ops like Gravel, Ethan, Weedy, Angelina, etc. against hyper buffed enemies you have to chip down with a stage hazard like lava tile or something. Get people to try ideas and look at things in a way besides bringing 10 nuclear warheads a medic and myrtle and blowing everything up.
As an old CC lover, I just don't like so many things about the new CC.
1. I'm forced to take a tag I don't want if I want to take the tag after that and there's no checkpoint for it while I could do just that in old cc.
2. The daily maps were so much more fun than the rotating maps today. we get a lot of variety of strats for each day
3. The point system. I don't need bloated numbers just to feel like I did something. Risk 18, 21, etc was a lot simpler and better.
The ONLY thing I can think of that I like from the new CC compared to the new CC are the days you can take before beating the rotating stage.
As for DOS, like what Silvergun said, it had potential for the buffs but they instead made it a demerit to take them
I disagree on the daily part. There are a lot of variety on old maps because we have _more maps_ on old CC.
CC2 dailies felt like a breath of fresh air, not necessarily by giving you freedom on how to deal with it, but precisely by having a set of rules you have to abide (the VG "ban", 1p relay, summoner only, etc.); older dailies felt more like Main-map-lite instead of a unique "of its own" kind of experience.
I also prefer the new dailies because they don't rotate away if I miss out on that certain day (though the bounty rewards still missable).
@@haveiszalfaroqie1628 and that was what I liked on the old cc. We had a lot of variety, especially so since it also changed daily, even when it was only 6 or 7 maps that loop, the available risks changes.
With this new CC, it doesn't matter even if we're on CC12, things won't change much because there's only 4 rotating maps per CC. Sure, 1 or 2 of those maps may end up with unique restrictions but that is something the old CC can also do by simply adding the same thing to their risks.
You like no VG risk? Done, this old CC map can give that to you, have fun. You like 1p relay? Done, there are old CC maps that can accommodate that kind of risk, have fun as well.
But then what about the new CC? You want more maps to play with? Too bad, you're stuck with 4 maps/CC. You don't like the Risks for this specific map? Too bad, that's the only thing you'll have cause none of them gets a new risk after some days and if you don't clear it you're gonna miss a bigger reward than if you missed a day or two of the old daily CC maps
What is really cool in the new CC is how they integrated the skin/(old)operator and banner into the CC grid, so you can play for them, but also buy them if you missed them.
I don't like that you have to take some tags because you want to get something behind it, but I think for a few branches it makes sense, I think a mix of old CC and some of the new CC branches would be cool.
@@sola3147 Old CC can do but ultimately didn't, hence the main-map-lite; it feels like main-map, just with fewer risk selections.
Yes, we can convert old dailies to adopt the unique restrictions we have in new, but that would be just a lazy slap-on and won't have the same experience were the map to be designed ground up. 1prelay has added restrictions of destructible melee-tile, enforcing that 1prelay plays; the friendly shieldguards hyperbuff/elimination requires specific map design for the shieldguards be meaningful, the same with "melee-only" Jesselton. New dailies felt like beyond what existing mechanic we have in its regular event counterpart. Tbf, the new Leithanien tower maps is quite literally about "regular event" mechanics, a stage about gramophones, but I like them and I don't think we ever got a daily that is as focused and intense on them as this one.
In the meantime, old dailies are what I consider as "event content recycle", where they p much use existing mechanic and only amplified them without adding new layers that make them feel fresh; Area 6 Ruins is p much just W bossfight; at least Deserted Factory has smoke vents and super-buffed Avengers to synergize with Faust; the drone maps (Abandoned High Rise, East Armory, Abandoned Plot) are quite novel on their first appearance, but they quickly devolve to that _community favorite drone maps_ (at least East Armory has the gimmick of drone jammer device, so that's something). You can't just slap on "VG ban", or summon only, or 1prelay to them and call it a day.
Old dailies have highs and lows, but these are par the course for having lots of maps. As for the new dailies, all of them have been a big +1 from me, though time will tell if they can keep this quality up until foreseeable future.
And no, I don't necessarily want more maps to play with. I have a paper to work on and I won't be able to devote that much intensive time to clear CCs, especially were the dailies rotate every day. This can only work if we have fewer dailies in a given CC runtime; were the dailies don't rotate but still have 7 maps, that doesn't solve my issue of not having time to clear them all; my only free time are just weekend, after all. I just want a fun map where I can clear it creatively (and in different ways) rather than filling the quota with uninspired stage designs.
To quote Silver himself: stupid bullshit map where we can do our own stupid bulshittery.
@@zomfgroflmao1337 Yep, I agree with the play for the skin and banner or pay later part.
The forced tag is just so ass imo. We had a lot more freedom in the old cc so people could go for easier or more complex tag combos unless they were doing max risk so people were able to make flexible strats for themselves if they wanted.
I think the new current gamemode in CN is actually DOS 2.0 but with major issues fixed, as they not longer punished you adding buff but only make you sacrifice some of your ops in side stages which basically Trauma Intervention
Also you can now grinding for rewards just like TFN
I'd like to not just have "haha big stat stick for everyone" as end game content.
Like in CC#9 Deepness, you can go pretty wild with the risks. I'd like to try that version but without the giga stat bloats. Couldn't be that bad, right?
Stuffs like seaborn eggs can deal elemental damage from 4 blocks away at ho thresholds, sleepwalking flowers will put everyone in a coma in 2 seconds if enraged or 2 camouflaged elites will mow through your entire squad if not dealt with correctly.
Dumb mechanics feel better to deal with than slapping +220% hp and atk on everything. Why is this peon winning my Bagpipe again?
Boss mechanics in DoS feels pretty good actually, turning everyone into a FRD if used correctly, his fire balls didn't take that much to clear. It's just that he takes forever to kill and everything else also takes forever to kill. Kinda lame that they decided to go that way.
Stat bloats are only fine to an extent, I'd like to see something interesting.
Lutonada waiting room gang where we at?
Literally right here :D
Can I still get her at wisadel?
@@abrahamwijaya6631 You can, but she won't be a rate-up operator. That being said, she's a 4-star, so if you plan to roll a lot for Wis'adel, you're bound to get her.
@@foreigner6801 i am
Everything already prefarmed, she is so freaking cute 🥰
issue with cc is they give +500% stats to basic mobs and call it a day instead of introducing new gameplay elements or putting in more bosses and elites so the power levels between story and cc aren't a dramatic shift from what you're used to
another issue with ccb2 is how it forces you to abandon melee and pretty much go full ranged
Honestly, the same issue with IS risk levels. I love that later IS have started to change enemies/mechanics instead of just stat buffs, and wish they do away with the stat buffs altogether and the levels only swap out enemies/maps to harder versions.
Honestly, one thing I really liked is the idea of a boss that has multiple stages, having more stuff going on with each one, that really feels like boss is evolving while you gradually learn about it before facing the final challenge. Considering I like Trials for Navigator a lot, because usually bosses are the most interesting part of the game in Arknights (they actually do different things and not 10 shield guards with different stats or whatever), and the whole game mode specifically centered around those? Sign me up! But one of the things that are great about TN is, as you mentioned, buffs they give you. TN#3 with that insane Yan squad with Sui siblings for free (missed opportunity to add something similar after Shu release to use her faction buff smh), TN#4 with extra damage against bound and stunned enemies when Ray already exists (and obliterates everything with that buff) and you still get all the rewards, and you still can choose to challenge yourself with going on spectacular without a squad buff, I really hope they did DoS similar to that but just focus on one boss instead of boss rush kinda thing, but we got one of the hilariously stat bloated gamemodes in existence, and that's despite 4 million HP bots being an actual thing right before that
Agreed. ToN is probably my favorite game mode. I honestly wish they would make a lot more of the seasonal events permanently accessible afterward.
My one big complaint about DoS was that Folinic's talent worked inconsistently for the lava stage hazards
Aside from the ass backwards implementation of the uninteresting "buffs" is that they should have went all in and made new enemies or even just slap DoS drip reskin to know that yeah these guys are the badass mf. The presence of regular enemies with OG SSS statbloat stick out like overflowing sewage. Why am I bothering fighting you instead of the boss? If those were Diablo Apocalypse Tanks or something like that I would actually be fine dealing with that insane toughness coz cool new badass enemy I wanna fight.
The boss I have zero qualms with even if it kicks my balls out through my eyesockets, he's cool, unique and flashy with interesting mechanics.
I love that car in gavial alter event, always felt good that i could just crash on to those drunkards til they die 😭👍 10/10 event
This is the kind of commentary that should have been around in the community when DoS was actually live. It's unfortunate that the mode was just done so spectacularly badly that people immediately wrote it off and didn't bother to engage with it all. People are genuinely willing to engage in conversation if they actually care about something as was seen by everyone and their mother having an opinion on Viviana when she released on global. What baffles me is that this outcome was so easily predictable by anyone with a brain. Whenever HG get any kind of negative feedback on a new mode, they seem to just toss a coin on whether to iterate and attempt to improve upon it or just can it entirely.
The genuine biggest miss of the mode imo was the buff system. It existed effectively solely to penalise you and strip rewards away from you so most people felt the objectively correct decision was never to use any of the buffs at all. At that point, why was it even in the mode to begin with? It was as pointless as the support buff you could get in old CC where it would just instantly set you to risk 0 no matter what tags you took. Having played another game that actually implemented crazy buff systems in a game mode, I can attest that they were *insanely* fun and gave some good gameplay variety even if many of the buffs were mindbogglingly broken and removed pretty much all of the challenge from the mode.
I forgot cc part 2 exist coz id rather play is than that crap. I wouldnt have even noticed its out today if not for this video coz i only use my sanity then do base then play is4 for a while till i get pissed off from the bad rng then close the game. In fact in cc2-1 i was procrastinating thinking ill do the bare minimum in the last day only to forget it's existence and missed out on everything other than the daily side maps lol
I'm a big fan of only playing content you actually like
Just cause AK has a million diffrent modes doesn't mean u have to play them
imo, the only thing worth going for is the Plume skin
@@DrSilvergun THANK YOU!
Honestly, I really liked the survival based mode in DoS, probably my favourite part about it. I don’t need to do a dps race to kill insanely buffed enemies before they walk into my blue box, I can use a variety of stall options that often don’t normally shine. Too bad it took them like… 3+ years to reiterate on Pallas’ operator locking design with the new CN event. And not to mention how long RA and IS took to become permanent. So I don’t exactly have hope of them giving a fix anytime soon…
Why did you had to remind me ? :(
I'm sorry Cardigan, I am sorry I was not strong enough :(((
Lmao same here
Ayy cardigan, I like you, but not to the point of "i'd go insane because of a skin" kind of like you
Give more medals instead of rewards to tryhards,
I wouldn't mind a shiny medal for my effort I could put on display.
Also allow players to clear these later (maybe with some sort of ticket system) like old events.
The habit of introducing a mechanic but immediately discouraging the use of that mechanic seems to be a trend in games lately. A lot of roguelikes struggle with it.
While I think there’s a need for story-light and gameplay-heavy events, I do think DoS needed to be story-light, not story-free. A little more context and framing for the maps would have given people more reason to play and remember them.
Silvergun: "HG, you made the buff system and then made the event make using the buff system impossible. And you're surprised people didn't like this?"
having buffs to only punish you for using them was so room temp iq lmao
arknights is very good at not just bloating enemy stats
so when they make an event doing exactly that, no wonder people hate it
Yes. However, Dossoles theme fits this fiery boss much more than it fits Dossoles, in my opinion.
Also, the main reason I want a version of DoS back is that I was a literal week-old account when it dropped.
My idea for the rewards being accessible is to make it so players can get their hands on trial units (like in Trials for Navigator) to clear these hard maps once you kill a specific amount of enemies/a boss, plus some buffs that *don't* affect the score (also like in TfN)
The title:
Me: as long we not fighting a HP ATK DEF RES all of it rank S+.... I won't mind
It's also a shame they never listen to us, so it doesnt matter how good ideas we come up with, they never make it to the game
I think another problem of DoS was not only it expected me to go high risk for rewards, it also didnt allow me to repeat a lower map to get the rewards, like what happens with TFN for example. If im masochist enough I can get all the rewards from map 1, while DoS didnt even allow me have that option.
i deadass didnt even know DoS had a buff system bc i used a guide for most of it and thus never actually failed a stage. but i wholeheartedly agree on the fact that you had to tryhard SO HARD to get all the rewards and for what? shit rewards. i loved that CC R18 gave you all the rewards, it was challenging enough and god knows it took me so many tries for CC2 (the real CC2 operation blade) bc i was still fairly new but those are also some of my favourite moments. sometimes id try higher in CC like i think my highest was R22 but like it was there for those who WANT to tryhard (which isnt me). DoS had me debating if i really wanted the cardigan skin and she isnt even that far in the rewards.
I like DoS for it's boss, hope we will see this dude again in the future.
Also Lutonada is peak
If i'm being honest, the reason why I didn't take any buffs is not because I didn't know about them or where they were, but because I thought that taking them would mean you get less rewards. En can't read moment or smth ig
Nah you're correct that's exactly how it works
It's just that u can use certain buffs and still get all the rewards
It's 100% a presentation issue imo
I actually had my fun with dos and got a full difficulty clear. I found the S stage easier than the a stage actually because the routing was simpler.
I just really enjoyed the the boss itself and the map with the magma sprouts.
It‘s also neat lorewise, as a recreation of past events which could reveal some funky bosses.
My only issue was the stat bloat. It very much felt tough because the enemies were chunky as all hell.
That wouldn‘t be a problem if you weren‘t being punished as hard for taking the buffs.
They should‘ve made more buffs you can take with less impact on your rewards and it would all be fine.
So you could idk, halve the difficulty of the s stage and still get all the rewards
Like, its petty much as you saidm the concpet is right there.
Try stage, if you are a god you succeed, but 99.99999% of players will be defeated cause its overtuned. But in return you get some EXP like IS, and on level up you unlock a random buff. Then you try the stage again with the new buff, which lets you get a bit further, that gives more EXP, which unlocks more buffs, etc.
Then you can have a system of "do this task/use these specific buffs to gain bonus EXP/unlock this specific buff." So "knock X enemy into the hole at the top left of the map." Which would need either some real coordination or some pusher/puller buffs. Or "kill the stage boss with volcano burn damage." Or something.
So its progression based where you stack bullshit with random buffs until you unlock them all or clear the stage earlier. The challenge for older players being "how many buffs can you turn off to clear it?" Vs. New players turning on all buffs to clear it, with some reward incentive to clear it with all buffs enabled.
That's a bold claim considering there are many other things what are a waste of effort. The main one being the story.
I said it at the time DoS was actually a solid mode or at least had the potential to be. The timed wave mode is genuinely something I would have loved to see them build upon. The boss growing stronger over a number of maps would be great if the boss didn't absolutely obliterate you as you went up
I didn’t even know there was a buff menu. It was so hidden.
Only knew about it because a discord friend told me about it, and had to guide me to find it. I cleared everything and got the rewards without even using them.
UI can easily kill an event.
An event like that sounds pretty fun actually. It's very fun to beat stupidly hard levels with stupidly big buffs
The problem with new CC is that you need to do a much more difficult stage than before, while the variety of risks is basically the same and it also forces you to pick some risks that you don't want to access a completely different risk.
I mean in the old system for risk 18 you could go with many strategies, now after a certain point all the strategies look the same.
Here in CCb2 you are forced to use ranged operators, have elemental damage or freeze, Lin is in literally every squad etc.
The point of CC for me never was using meta operators to beat enemies that have 40k hp, I liked CC because it made you think about what risks to pick, how to change your strategy based on that risk and what operator can help you in this new situation. Now it's just "No matter what you do, you have to pick these risks to reach 540 / 620 so your strategy needs to be a specific way to deal with them"
To fix it just add more risks and separate them. This way even though it's the same stage you feel like doing something different each run.
Maybe even make challenges with good rewards for some possible strategies to make players try them.
Turns out the new CN mode that released yesterday is a combination of DoS and a little bit of Interlocking Competition so its not gone gone
Haven't looked at it yet haha
I'll go play it instead of CC ig
@@DrSilvergun One thing that's weird about that event is that the stages with Phase 1 and Phase 2 of the boss are unlocked but the stage with the full power boss is locked for 4 more days.
@@DrSilvergunAy you gonna stream it?
Hmm probably not
CN lagginess aside I don't feel like streaming atm
Will probably make some videos on it
@@DrSilvergungonna wait for those videos then. have fun
The new Vector Breakthrough is DOS rework. Kinda, sorta. Rosmontis has those DOS-style evolving boss design, she even follow the code of the DOS boss in the enemy archive.
Shame the trauma stage doesn't follow, I love that particular part of DOS
I don’t like the new point system but I like the ui because it tells you at least what each category does. In normal cc you could have some unrelated enemy changes next to eachother and it’s like why are you there lol it doesn’t make sense for organization
Fuck DoS, all the homies play AoM
i do agree but one thing to add could be that each trauma stage completed gives a budget of buffs that dont effect the score, that way people feel like they have earned a power up and further encourages creative use of buffs with a limited set due to time gating while anyone that is struggling can think "ok ill come back later to do the other trauma stages"
yeah OLD cc had support risks like that
prevented you from getting score but let you shit stomp the map
Was happy when I saw a less extreme version of that in POO dailies
I only saw the old CC on videos, but it looked way more fun. I played CCB1 and not CCB2 and tbh since I can only reach 400 points, I stop messing with it after that.
Also Bolivarian supremacy.
Let you actually progress while still using the buffs
Oh yeah, I forgot about DOS for a bit. I just wanted the cute little cardigan skin and then pretended this never existed, tbh. Didn’t even know or remembered that we had buffs. I dunno, DOS wasn’t really that significant to me outside of getting that skin.
I don’t know what my opinion is on CC overall. I haven’t played much of the old CC since I was new at the time, so I wanted to try out the new CC more. I did get all the medals for CCB1 and plan to do so for CCB2 though (CCB2 is sort of a walk in the park compared to the previous, I already scored 620 points for the trimmed medal the day the new CC came out). I guess I don’t think CCB is the worst thing ever or anything; in fact, maybe I like it personally. I don’t mind the new UI either, though I didn’t notice the little toggle for the contracts in the bottom left corner among other things.
Also, Lutonada is adorable.
I just want to know what they were thinking when they made DOS. "Ah lets make a stat bloat JUST LIKE CC but remove risks and change them with punishing SUPER small buffs that makes you feel like a failure for picking them!"
Like no way they made DOS after 3 years+ of CC experience and knowing POOa failed hard lmao
Tums cameo spotted.
I unironically enjoyed DoS more than new CC1-2 for mainly one reason.
You get a new really cool Boss that actually has an interesting/unique mechanic
Same
Would mind CC a lot less if it had new enemies mixed in
Dos 2 will be HELL NO WISHADEL for real, trust
that new mode on cn, is basicaly dos 2. now with new music
5:59 the squad is all blue, how such a blud achieve that
Vector Breakthrough is kinda DoS 2 but its probably a lot easier
I would really like to face the DOS boss in an event
I don't think DoS with its buffs instead of risks should fully replace CC since they still feel quite different, but yeah it could definitely have been explored further. Hot take I actually liked the DoS map and boss; but I kinda ran out of time to beat it lol
DOS last stage (its S-3 i think?)completely fold me over and i'm okay with , my only hope they make more permanent endgame
after reception from CC#2 looks like they're giving up making game mode slightly challenging and want to play safe. i hope not
I love DoS, i think that everything untill s-3 was really fun, especially for my relatively new account, since i had to compensate hard for underleveled and under mastery-ed OPs. And the boss was super cool. I loved abusing his bind to gain an FRD Typhon. I do agree that the buff system was hot garbage and needs a rework tho. It truely felt awful to even consider using the buffs. Personaly i really want DoS continued, or at least a rerun of the DoS we got. I will say tho that I dont get why CC Underdawn wasn't well recieved. Imo it's really fun, and while seaborn suck, the iteration that CC forces you to do is something arknights needs even more of, especially since normal maps require your sanity, which you may want to devote elsewhere. I really hope HG doesn't scrap CC, I would be really salty if I only ever get to experience 2 CCs before they die.
Also why does everyone hate the new CC UI? While there are a few gripes I have, I think it looks and feels great. Very intuitive. I dont get the weird risk categories tho.
I'd say most people dislike it because the old one was cleaner so the change felt pointless
I have a feeling this point was made multiple times already. And if the main reason Dos is bad is because buffs was bad, but the concept is fine. Then I don't understand the hate CC gets. The risks are not great but the concept is fine and current system is way better then older one, with rotating old maps insted of a couple new ones. And I complitely understand that they just can't make full new 5 maps every single time. They need a time to develope them. But people seems to forget that.
dos 1 was so enjoyable
S3 is my most favorite stage in the entire game. To counter the bullshit boss, you need to use his mechanic against him which is really fun.
Im just really bummed about the upcoming because of wisadel.
It will most likely be balanced around her
It was very much not
Idk where people get this fantasy that HG balance the game around meta 6*
It's never been true and the game has never scaled to the level meta 6* since back when eyja released 5 years ago
I enjoy SSS for making 5 star ops mega-op 😭
I enjoyed this mode somehow but I hate the fact that you needed a set of operators to clear it.. HG could have at least made it permanent so people can clear it later using newer operators available.. could have been a new testing ground and Patriot can finally retire
Ah rewards for endgame or challenges in gacha games are always such a dilemma. You cant put a lot of good rewards in there since its hard so not everyone can get it (either account check, dont have enough skill or others) and they feel miss out but on the opposite if there is no good rewards, casuals like myself will just skip it entirely anyway.
IIRC there was like a single pull ticket in the reward and that was also a bit high up I think? Saw that and I instantly lose any motivation to try the mode since I am not on the try hard side of thing.
Ideally rewards are just a bonus and people play for it's own sake.
Plenty of people play IS far past the point where rewards are claimed for example.
@@DrSilvergun Yep but I think no doubt rewards are what make many players do a game mode or just fun with many varieties with IS like you said.
If challenging events are only worth doing for their reward I think they already failed.
I'm not a fan of how Arknights does difficulty or rewards. Inflating stats or giving enemies frustrating gimmicks doesn't feel good. Designing events for player retention instead of fun and having the most sought after rewards deep in the reward list makes early progression or rewards feel as if the devs are not valuing player time. I absolutely despise IS since It's not only heavy rng but it's also more punishing for less developed rosters (in a gacha game) for not having good units to progress faster. They tried to remedy it with fixed squads later but I still don't like the mode or the time sink, other events have this issue too and I don't feel like putting in many hours in them when they don't feel fun so I end up skipping most events that focus on artificial difficulty or grinding.
Last time I played IS I skipped a stage I knew my current line-up couldn't beat only to get a more difficult version of the same stage right after. It happened so frequently I just quit the mode all together. I'm missing out on characters and skins for characters I like just because many modes feel bad due to poor application.
IS' only saving grace is it's permanent. Limited time events should not have sought after rewards at all.
New mic who dis
oh god, yeah design of strive but a randomized cannot shop. giving you 'earned' buffs. would at the very least make DoS much better.
man this video surely is amazing, anyways glory to boredrat
W Age of Mythology OST
make a buff gimmick where chance based talent/skill now become guaranteed >:)
no I'm not talking about ethan, I'm talking about Gitano and Qiubai :'v
*edit* also why just reduce weight, why not also reverse enemies weight? ;)
functionally 0 weight and -5 weight are the same thing as it's coded right now
They really should continue dos and interlocking since it was way more fun than current cc. I cant finish dos but it was really fun.
+1 like for lutonada
Unlike HG filler, SIlvergun filler come with full anniversary event level content and Lutanada propaganda, and I'm so in it for both. :D
Defender Rrat
But now that Vector Breaktrough (VEC) is out, do you think it can be considered as the futur DoS (both enemies have the same code "SFRXX")
Haven't tried it yet haha
DoS was DogShit
DOS was good
until S3 appear (and A3 shieldguard 💀)
Agreed. They would probably need to rename it though, DoS has an awful rep, people would complain before even trying.
oh 100% rebranding stuff is important
Why dafug the video is about DoS but 80% of comments are talking about CC???
Because I talked about DOS in relation to CC
@@DrSilvergun I know, some might be but some aren't even relative to DoS, like they're just compare the old CC with the new CC
0:53 HAHAHAHAHHAHA
I found DoS more enjoyable than POO, subjective opinion, don't ask why
The smell I reckon
@@DrSilvergun POO was in a dumpster fire
8:55
I like DoS, give players something to whine about. Make the boss an actual "boss", you have to literally throw everything at it.
Meanwhile, in the real world, the actual issue with DoS was the insane stat bloat making the enemies a way bigger threat than the relatively easy to manage boss lmao. A mode that makes the boss actually a major threat like you describe would be awesome, but in DoS the boss I had to throw literally everything at was some disgruntled catboys...
The best systems and gimmicks in Arknights empower the player, the punishing ones are the worst and are frustrating to deal with
Also being punished for using them makes them worthless
Can't really agree with that, ideally you have mechanics that can do both so it's a matter of application
CW NL andTW are good examples of these
@@DrSilvergunideally yes, but most mechanics only exist to harm the players sanity 😂