Interesting video. Given the low population of Yanchep and more so, Two Rocks, it's a miracle the line has been built for starters (thankfully though). WA has shown itself to be quite proactive in transit networks, more so than any other state I feel - so the extensions currently being built and proposed are in line with overall government plans to keep ahead of eventual requirements (given massive subdivision construction across all outer areas especially). I agree with your thoughts on the link to Two Rocks being an extension of the Yanchep railway rather than any other transit mode - with integrated bus stations at all new railway stations. This system has worked well on the main stations between Mandurah and Butler thus far, and as a successful tried and tested option would pretty much be a good guess as to what the plan will be. My idea for light rail (over trackless tram or busway) could be useful on the proposed links from Ellenbrook to new areas terminating at Wanneroo. I've seen the proposed routes and it would make sense for that to be light rail. The proposals for trackless trams if adopted (and I've heard recently that the decision has been approved but not to Scarborough - rather from Canning Bridge to Curtin Uni and to Cannington) would work in their own reserves on the seven routes originally proposed - all connectors from trains. As much as I prefer rail and light rail, the decade at least that it would take to build the seven routes is just too long .. over the few months all up to have the network up and running using the vehicle I rode on at the City of Stirling exhibition days in 2023. I thought I'd be anti-trackless tram, but riding that one at Stirling changed my mind. I'm looking forward to riding the tram connection from Whiteman Park station soon - once this is up and running, I'll never drive to Whiteman Park again! Keep up the good work at PETS. 👍
Thank you for the video. I moved to Nilgen 2 years ago. Yanchep is changing a lot. I just hope they extend this train to two rocks. It will be very convenient for me 😌.
This route wouldn't even be in the top 20 if light rail or trams were considered for a transit route in Perth. Yanchep/Two Rocks is decades from needing any mid-tier transit. Core metro movement patterns should be addressed first. Things like the Fremantle to Airport corridor which has 3 highways choking with traffic (circa 150,000 vpd across the three corridors) and not one decent transit option along any of it yet. A light rail along Leach Highway or Canning Highway between Freo and the Airport would do wonders for promoting density in well located areas, connect people to key metro destinations and allows for high levels of transit integration across existing lines. The ability to use existing road reservations to achieve these links only further enhances such an idea.
BUILD A SINGLE LINE TRACK SO THE CURRENT ELECTRIC TRAINS COULD OPERATE TO TWO ROCKS, AND LATER WHEN THEY EXTEND THE RAIL SERVICE NORTH THEY JUST HAVE TO DUPLICATE THE TRACK, THEN BUILD SINGLE LINE TRACK FURTHER NORTH SLOWLY IN INCREMENTS UNTIL A DOUBLE HIGH SPEED ELECTRIC TRAIN SERVICE CONNECTS PERTH AND GERALDTON ALONG THE COAST
Extending to Geraldton is a crazy project . To make it efficient,we should upgrade the track to standard gauge to allows the train run faster.And establish express train to let the passengers at major stations travel faster. Also,we can introduce and implement tilting trains to pass the curves faster
@@黃昱翔-e6q well the track can not be made standard gauge as the tunnels were only built to take the narrow gauge trains, the trains will only need to travel between 130 km/h - 200 km/h, because it will be built to further extend Perth towards the north, adding more suburbs and towns, also it will years to slowly extend the suburbs/ satellite cities, best to have transport infrastructure in place before the towns/ cities. building it afterwards will be a pain, just like it was when i built the Northen suburbs line, and when the Kwinana line was built. That is why I said build it as a single line and duplicate it as the towns grow, but a coastal rail line is needed. Then they can convert the Midlands Railway line via Moora to dual gauge and they can run a prospector rail car service to Geraldton once or twice a day, with a morning and afternoon commuter train from Moora to Perth station service at 130 km/h - 160 km/h my argument with Westrail when i worked for them was to convert all the lines to dual gauge so eventually all train lines became standard gauge I even argued for the suburban lines to be converted to standard gauge and using double decker trains
@@smalltime0But the allowable velocity of standard gauge is obviously much faster than the narrow gauge. It allows the train reach 200km/h even faster.
forget about light rail for yanchep. buses far more effective. if you're doing any light rail then you need to look at travelling large numbers of people over a distance. For example Perth Stadium to Perth. Curtin Uni to Fremantle... Perth to Gnangara... Perth to Kings park and UWA/hospital... Perth to Airport... (sorry too late its got heavy rail). Also, look at utilising heavy rail for trams in areas of heavy road traffic and insufficient space. But locations like Rockingham Yanchep have no chance. Even Scarborough is unlikely.
Tokyu did a planning exercise in the late 90s for full heavy rail to Two Rocks and this is what should go ahead. Waste of time having a separate tramway - slower and need to change vehicles and require its own depot. All pretty dumb. Keep heading onwards to Guilderton and Lancelin. I realise this is a tram-fan page so this will go on deaf ears.
Going to Guilderton or Lancelin would basically be done by tracking across to Indian Ocean Drive. I doubt it would ever actually be justified going via Two Rocks. On that note I doubt any future Lancelin station would actually be in Lancelin, it'd probably be Karakin (even though roughly 10 people like there atm) and be fed by a couple of bus routes. That's be way off in the future though.
@@PerthElectricTramwaySociety Yes, real trams, not trackless "trams". Real trams do not need the paving on reserves exclusively for rail vehicles. I wonder if a way to go might be to start building light rail in different parts of the Perth area and connect them together later?
Adelaide's O-Bahn is like a parody of a Liberal infrastructure plan. Except it actually got built. I'm still convinced entirely by accident. The infrastructure minister got told on the day by his assistant that he was attending the opening, and that's when he found out it was actually built.
trams or 'light rail' are only mentioned in transport studies to keep greenies interested. the answer is always buses. trams cant really run on train lines of similar gauge. the head of the rail has a greater angle on train rail because it tends to keep the vehicles from hunting from side to side. the lesser angle on tram tracks makes for better running on streets with the sharper curves on street running tracks. sharing tracks has been done. it was done in victoria before sliced bread was invented when the vr ran a couple of tram lines. and it may have been done more recently in nsw but was stopped because it is not good for tram wheels.
@@BigBlueMan118 , i cant remember. my recollection is of information from comments on a tressteleg1 so my memory might have failed me on the nsw info. i define myself as a sensible greenie. i define stupid greenies as those who are dead against everything that keeps the lights on.
@@vsvnrg3263 I think you might be talking about the Newcastle light rail project, where they replaced part of the old rail line into the City with a light rail line because the City of Newcastle is moving westwards anyway and there were a number of level crossings which were problematic, they discussed replacing the entire rail corridor but it was found that Putting Part of the Line in the Road and keeping Part of the rail Line Had more benefits, this might Change again when they build high Speed rail. And none is advocating a Policy where the Energy system cant function adequately to meet the needs of everyday Ausies.
@@BigBlueMan118 , no it wouldnt have been newcastle. i just have a vague memory of tressteleg1 telling me about somewhere ( besides the vr in melbourne.) and how it was not good for tram wheels so they used road transport. they were using the train lines just to get trams moved for special maintenance. and as for greenies, some are advocating a policy where the energy system cant function adequately. victoria is quickly running out of gas sources and greenies are against any more exploration anywhere. other states will have gas problems soon as well.
@@vsvnrg3263 yeah fair enough mate, it might have been in Victoria, it cant have been QLD or SA though as you mentioned they have another guage as does Vic actually, it cant have been anywhere else. But Just on the Energy Point, I think we largely agree, the Point I would make though is about the gas licenses - people are angry about then because they aren't for 2027 or 2029 or whatever, theyre for 2040+ after we already have to cut emissions by 70%and I think outside of WA 95% isnt for domestic consumption nor do Aussies get any royalties. Thats why people are pissed off, the royalties like Norway has on their resources could have paid for new Metro lines in every city and we could have largely decarbonised our national Energy system by now.
About 10 years ago I saw a master plan for Yanchep/Two Rocks at the Wanneroo Public Library that had a light-rail corridor included.
Nice! Doubt it will happen now
Extending Yanchep Line to Two Rocks is much more straightforward than building the light rail
Exactly. Its worked to get them to Yanchep so why force users to change to another and still very expensive mode
Interesting video. Given the low population of Yanchep and more so, Two Rocks, it's a miracle the line has been built for starters (thankfully though). WA has shown itself to be quite proactive in transit networks, more so than any other state I feel - so the extensions currently being built and proposed are in line with overall government plans to keep ahead of eventual requirements (given massive subdivision construction across all outer areas especially). I agree with your thoughts on the link to Two Rocks being an extension of the Yanchep railway rather than any other transit mode - with integrated bus stations at all new railway stations. This system has worked well on the main stations between Mandurah and Butler thus far, and as a successful tried and tested option would pretty much be a good guess as to what the plan will be. My idea for light rail (over trackless tram or busway) could be useful on the proposed links from Ellenbrook to new areas terminating at Wanneroo. I've seen the proposed routes and it would make sense for that to be light rail. The proposals for trackless trams if adopted (and I've heard recently that the decision has been approved but not to Scarborough - rather from Canning Bridge to Curtin Uni and to Cannington) would work in their own reserves on the seven routes originally proposed - all connectors from trains. As much as I prefer rail and light rail, the decade at least that it would take to build the seven routes is just too long .. over the few months all up to have the network up and running using the vehicle I rode on at the City of Stirling exhibition days in 2023. I thought I'd be anti-trackless tram, but riding that one at Stirling changed my mind. I'm looking forward to riding the tram connection from Whiteman Park station soon - once this is up and running, I'll never drive to Whiteman Park again! Keep up the good work at PETS. 👍
Glad to hear that you are excited for our tramway extension. We can't wait to welcome passengers on it soon!
Thank you for the video. I moved to Nilgen 2 years ago. Yanchep is changing a lot. I just hope they extend this train to two rocks. It will be very convenient for me 😌.
Glad you enjoyed!
Trams or light rail only make sense as feeders to the side, just keep extending the main line in the direction is is going as the population grows.
Yes that does make sense
This route wouldn't even be in the top 20 if light rail or trams were considered for a transit route in Perth. Yanchep/Two Rocks is decades from needing any mid-tier transit.
Core metro movement patterns should be addressed first. Things like the Fremantle to Airport corridor which has 3 highways choking with traffic (circa 150,000 vpd across the three corridors) and not one decent transit option along any of it yet.
A light rail along Leach Highway or Canning Highway between Freo and the Airport would do wonders for promoting density in well located areas, connect people to key metro destinations and allows for high levels of transit integration across existing lines.
The ability to use existing road reservations to achieve these links only further enhances such an idea.
Yes, there are definitely other areas that need light rail first.
why not just build a single track extention of the metronet to two rocks?
Yes, that would be more appropriate.
The problem with single track is that it might increase the need for schedule padding, and this could make single track futile.
BUILD A SINGLE LINE TRACK SO THE CURRENT ELECTRIC TRAINS COULD OPERATE TO TWO ROCKS, AND LATER WHEN THEY EXTEND THE RAIL SERVICE NORTH THEY JUST HAVE TO DUPLICATE THE TRACK, THEN BUILD SINGLE LINE TRACK FURTHER NORTH SLOWLY IN INCREMENTS UNTIL A DOUBLE HIGH SPEED ELECTRIC TRAIN SERVICE CONNECTS PERTH AND GERALDTON ALONG THE COAST
@@Leo-hv9mm I USED TO DRIVE TRAINS IN WA AND BUILT HALF THE JOONDALUP LINE
Extending to Geraldton is a crazy project . To make it efficient,we should upgrade the track to standard gauge to allows the train run faster.And establish express train to let the passengers at major stations travel faster.
Also,we can introduce and implement tilting trains to pass the curves faster
@@黃昱翔-e6q well the track can not be made standard gauge as the tunnels were only built to take the narrow gauge trains, the trains will only need to travel between 130 km/h - 200 km/h, because it will be built to further extend Perth towards the north, adding more suburbs and towns, also it will years to slowly extend the suburbs/ satellite cities, best to have transport infrastructure in place before the towns/ cities.
building it afterwards will be a pain, just like it was when i built the Northen suburbs line, and when the Kwinana line was built.
That is why I said build it as a single line and duplicate it as the towns grow, but a coastal rail line is needed.
Then they can convert the Midlands Railway line via Moora to dual gauge and they can run a prospector rail car service to Geraldton once or twice a day, with a morning and afternoon commuter train from Moora to Perth station service at 130 km/h - 160 km/h
my argument with Westrail when i worked for them was to convert all the lines to dual gauge so eventually all train lines became standard gauge
I even argued for the suburban lines to be converted to standard gauge and using double decker trains
@@黃昱翔-e6q Difference in narrow to standard isn't as extreme as what you might think.
The B and C series are capable of going 130 km/hr
@@smalltime0But the allowable velocity of standard gauge is obviously much faster than the narrow gauge. It allows the train reach 200km/h even faster.
1:44 "four and a half thousand"
meanwhile: 4,5000
Oops. A slight miscalculation😆
forget about light rail for yanchep. buses far more effective. if you're doing any light rail then you need to look at travelling large numbers of people over a distance. For example Perth Stadium to Perth. Curtin Uni to Fremantle... Perth to Gnangara... Perth to Kings park and UWA/hospital... Perth to Airport... (sorry too late its got heavy rail). Also, look at utilising heavy rail for trams in areas of heavy road traffic and insufficient space. But locations like Rockingham Yanchep have no chance. Even Scarborough is unlikely.
mate the second largest train station in the city is perth stadium, i agree though we need inter-train line bus routes to be replaced by trams
Tokyu did a planning exercise in the late 90s for full heavy rail to Two Rocks and this is what should go ahead. Waste of time having a separate tramway - slower and need to change vehicles and require its own depot. All pretty dumb. Keep heading onwards to Guilderton and Lancelin. I realise this is a tram-fan page so this will go on deaf ears.
Going to Guilderton or Lancelin would basically be done by tracking across to Indian Ocean Drive. I doubt it would ever actually be justified going via Two Rocks.
On that note I doubt any future Lancelin station would actually be in Lancelin, it'd probably be Karakin (even though roughly 10 people like there atm) and be fed by a couple of bus routes.
That's be way off in the future though.
@smalltime0 agree that makes sense...but the planning exercise did plot a 2 rocks route presumably close to the coast at the south end
1:43 "4,500", not "4,5000"
Oops, yeah thanks for the correction
Why do people keep mentioning busways? If you're going to build dedicated infrastructure, just build a tram system. No more silly gadget bahns
Haha. It would be nice to see tramways return to Perth
@@PerthElectricTramwaySociety Yes, real trams, not trackless "trams". Real trams do not need the paving on reserves exclusively for rail vehicles.
I wonder if a way to go might be to start building light rail in different parts of the Perth area and connect them together later?
Adelaide's O-Bahn is like a parody of a Liberal infrastructure plan. Except it actually got built. I'm still convinced entirely by accident.
The infrastructure minister got told on the day by his assistant that he was attending the opening, and that's when he found out it was actually built.
@@smalltime0 LOL, What a golden story.
People keep mentioning busways due to the fact they work.
trams or 'light rail' are only mentioned in transport studies to keep greenies interested. the answer is always buses. trams cant really run on train lines of similar gauge. the head of the rail has a greater angle on train rail because it tends to keep the vehicles from hunting from side to side. the lesser angle on tram tracks makes for better running on streets with the sharper curves on street running tracks. sharing tracks has been done. it was done in victoria before sliced bread was invented when the vr ran a couple of tram lines. and it may have been done more recently in nsw but was stopped because it is not good for tram wheels.
Where was it proposed in NSW? Greenies is a pretty nasty term tbh
@@BigBlueMan118 , i cant remember. my recollection is of information from comments on a tressteleg1 so my memory might have failed me on the nsw info. i define myself as a sensible greenie. i define stupid greenies as those who are dead against everything that keeps the lights on.
@@vsvnrg3263 I think you might be talking about the Newcastle light rail project, where they replaced part of the old rail line into the City with a light rail line because the City of Newcastle is moving westwards anyway and there were a number of level crossings which were problematic, they discussed replacing the entire rail corridor but it was found that Putting Part of the Line in the Road and keeping Part of the rail Line Had more benefits, this might Change again when they build high Speed rail.
And none is advocating a Policy where the Energy system cant function adequately to meet the needs of everyday Ausies.
@@BigBlueMan118 , no it wouldnt have been newcastle. i just have a vague memory of tressteleg1 telling me about somewhere ( besides the vr in melbourne.) and how it was not good for tram wheels so they used road transport. they were using the train lines just to get trams moved for special maintenance. and as for greenies, some are advocating a policy where the energy system cant function adequately. victoria is quickly running out of gas sources and greenies are against any more exploration anywhere. other states will have gas problems soon as well.
@@vsvnrg3263 yeah fair enough mate, it might have been in Victoria, it cant have been QLD or SA though as you mentioned they have another guage as does Vic actually, it cant have been anywhere else.
But Just on the Energy Point, I think we largely agree, the Point I would make though is about the gas licenses - people are angry about then because they aren't for 2027 or 2029 or whatever, theyre for 2040+ after we already have to cut emissions by 70%and I think outside of WA 95% isnt for domestic consumption nor do Aussies get any royalties.
Thats why people are pissed off, the royalties like Norway has on their resources could have paid for new Metro lines in every city and we could have largely decarbonised our national Energy system by now.