BOTH ICE MACHINES ARE NOT WORKING
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- We were called on both machines not working and found several issues with both, after cleaning them and making some needed adjustments we got them operational.
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I think that ice harvest in the beginning was the most satisfying thing I've seen in a long time.
He never disappoints!
It's been over ten years since I serviced and performed maintenance on ice machines. At that time, I did all Scotsman service work. The machines were old enough, even then, that they used the old capillary tube technology strategically located in the bin to detect bin ice level in order to know when to cease ice production. I kept those old machines running for a long time. Looking at you work on the two machines in this video, I see how ice machine technology has changed. The timers on the machines I serviced were all electromechanical, until my last few years doing that specific niche of work. At that point, I started working on the newer Scotsman machines for that time period. They were equipped with circuit boards (mother boards) controlling the sequence of operation and, if I remember correctly, ultra-sound sensors in the bin for ice level detection...Good work in this video, as usual.
The big reason I love working on ice machines is the complexity of the operation, but more so I love that most techs are afraid of ice machines. Been doing this for 34 years and cut my teeth on Manitowoc A, B, and C models. Knowing the sequence of operation for any particular machine is key. Patience is also key. Observe before touching. And also, grow a thick skin about just standing there watching.
Ahh the old B machines (shudder). How many evap plates we changed. I’m a Hoshi guy, but Manitowoc has put a lot of food on my table.
Old HVAC guy here. Studied in high School and did good. Life took me on a different path starting with Army service. My son who is in the Army now did HVAC in high school also. It is my hope with him planning on returning to HVAC, that he finds a place like yours. You are very much like the first few techs i worked with. Keep up the great job.
I like icemaker calls except for explaining to the customer why you're just sitting there. Great video Chris.
Excellent work. Ice machines can be extremely difficult to diagnose without the proper amount of time for data collection. Data loggers can only do so much without hands on. I was the last tech hired so I ended up being the ice machine cleaner tech so the others could just run diagnostics. Still I learned a lot working on them actually using the knowledge I had from school but had never got to use. Of course the bad news was finding out how infrequently some customers would have a unit serviced and cleaned, lol.
UA-cam recommended your channel to me, so glad it did. I don't work in the industry, but I am thoroughly enjoying your content. Thank you!
Thanks so much bud
Your process and way of thinking is incomparable to anyone I have seen!
At the end of the video when you mentioned that you don’t have time to get called back; Amen! I hate call backs. Do it right, do it once. I know I try to take my time even if managers are crying to hurry it up. They’re not in the field on the job. I am there with the customer and I try to do right with the customer.
I've been on ice machines for 20 years and now we have a customer with Manitowoc indigo's, your vids have been very helpful thanks. I think some ice makers are over engineered these days.
We have 20 Manitowoc and 8 Scottsman ice machines at my workplace. We try to clean each ice machine every 3 to 6 months. It does take a good 2 hours to empty, clean, and then run 3 sheets of ice to flush any chemical leftover in the machines. Thanks for the in-depth look at how these machines work.
Shocking really. Used to work at McDonald’s and we always emptied the machine and cleaned it fully..
While I am not mechanically inclined (telephony software support), your troubleshooting process and video quality are refreshing. Thank you for the constant entertainment!
I never realized that these type of Ice machines had equipment outdoors on the roof, I always thought it was all self contained. Interesting.
It is nice to keep the heat out of kitchens.
It's depends, some are all in one, some have roof top units.
thanks for answering my question.
There are traditional remote condensing units. (Compressor in head, condenser fan/coil outdoors) Quiet cubes where compressor is out doors also, no compressor in head unit, very quiet.
I learned on Kold-Draft ice machines. We had one guy that specialized in Manitowac, so the rest of us never had to touch them. Which was bad because we were not learning how. But, that was the deal that guy had with the owner.
Ive seen lots of poor cleaning and sanitising on ice machines, I always say NO ICE !
Good job on diagnosis. Nothing is instant..not even coffee and rice. Great job Chris. Thanks for sharing
At the end of the day it’s relaxing to watch your videos
Perfect! Lunch and a new video.
One conclusion I have come to after watching many of your videos is that I was better off not knowing how nasty so many restaurant kitchens are.
Use a #2 pencil to get the recommended bridge thickness. Sometimes a cleaning can fix a lot of issues with Manitowoc machines. Some tech support guys won't even talk to you until you've cleaned the machine twice.
I love your guide-lines/ethics!
I really enjoy the content. I’ve been in The trade for 6 years now and I’ve been watching your work for over 2 years. I’ve learned a lot form you. Thank you for all that you do.
And whenever you call tech support (for ice machines) it’s like your bothering them. They do get frustrating. I’m glad you said that cause I thought I was the only one😹
Good catch on the compressor
I’ve been working on ice machines since 92’, and Manitowoc has yet to win me over. I like the control interface, but it ends there. Hoshizaki seems to know how to keep it simple, and their plates are bulletproof. Manitowoc will keep the service guy busy. In the old days, they sold a factory add on water clamp to slow the water down going over the plate to dial in the bridge thickness top to bottom. Tilting the bin forward and silicone spraying the plate was needed to get them to harvest after a couple years of service. Good catch on the compressor. Pump down testing for compressor capacity is the best way to do it when it is not obvious. Sometimes you just have to dump the charge and recharge then move on.
Manitowocs will keep a service guy busy ONLY if he dosnt know Manitowocs. CALL TECH SUPPORT, THE MAKE U LOOK LIKE A HERO TO CUSTOMER. Simplest machines out there. Once u use a screw driver to open door, all sensors, water system parts come out without any tools.
I see JUST as many Hosi failures and problens in design that have never been up dated. A Hosi KLM made 10 years still same parts as one made today. Still use to much water. Hosi # 2 IMHO of the MANY manufacturers. When the evap plate get severely scaled on a Hosi it can be a bitch to get scale off the plate so it will harvest. Freeze ups frequently result in the water/ice separator tray breaking when the large chunk of ice falls off plate. i stopped doing warranty service because Hosih expected me to pay for diagnoses or repairs on machines I sold, wtf? I have no obligation to cover any manufactures warranty for them. OFTEN must wait for parts from factory. They can a BITCH to diagnose if there isnt room above the unit to work.
Appreciate it the videos keep it coming my Hvac/r brotha. 💯
We look after Manitowoc machines here in London. Biggest jam up is the lime scale. Causes us lots of call outs.
You have put a lot of positive energy into this presentation. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Good techs can always learn from the methods of other techs allowing them to develop winning methods of their own. Thank you for putting the effort into making and presenting this material.
I'm not even a hvac guy but I can't stop watching these videos lol I do electrical work
When you show how disgusting these ice machines are, it makes me second guess getting ice water at restaurants.
And even self serve machines.
I'll only eat ice that was made with bottled water.
Hey i may be on the east coast but we all try to help those coming up in the field! On the other side i cant tell you how much i have learned from my guys coming up! I am a retired marine so i have high standards! My guys have stepped up in every way and made my company the number 1 in our area. I hope your company reaps the same rewards!
Your videos are amazing. I’ve learned so much about HVAC from your videos
I don't know why your vids are so captivating, but they are. You obviously have a great deal of experience and confidence.
Nice to see an Ice machine vid, It’s been a while and worth the wait cause this was a challenge , but obviously you made it look easy, great work Chris as always!
On that particular unit sometimes if it's a harvest issue it could be low on charge. The charges sufficient enough to make ice but not sufficient enough to harvest the ice
This is why I cook my own food seeing all the nasty shit that happens in restaurants
Nice catch with compressor not pumping down to 0
Maybe the higher harvest high side pressure was archived using a bigger compressor. Maybe they changed it to a smaller one for cost efficiency, even if it decreases the performance of the machine a bit.
And in my opinion the "weak compressor" clearly has a bad suction valve. If the HP discharge valve (and the internal overpressure relief valve) is still okay, you won't have any refrigerant flowing back, only this really bad pumpdown pressure.
Strange how those work. Though satisfying to watch.
As I have always told you I like your videos a lot you are a technician just like me if we do not change pieces to change but investigate why a part stops failing because a component is failing And that is interesting because applying the research methodology is what It does not help to correctly diagnose a equipment failure and make a correct and perfect repair of the ice page. They are very special. You have to be very patient with it. You have to observe a lot and implement very methods to be able to diagnose the failure correctly in your case. I see that they use a very good tool in Mexico if they sell it but it is very expensive And the truth is that I only have a digital manifold of the Master cool brand And why it was not enough to buy one that you have but I really like your methodology research and that is good the ice machine and sometimes it happens that with the lack of maintenance this the sensors start to fail makes you believe the machine that has water when it really does not and in terms of the compression ratio in the compressor I have sometimes had that question is because sometimes a compressor does not work well or does not compress well and suddenly without compressing well in the end I think maybe It may be the change in temperature here in Mexico we do not have as much variation in ambient temperature in places where I am living is very hot, that is, a thing made of ice makes it above 38 to 40 minutes in the climate where you It is not sure what ambient temperature you have but this one I imagine that in a smaller period of time the ice machine can carry out more harvesting cycle, patience is still quite interesting enough to cultivate it to be able to find the equipment sometimes it happens that clients who do not call are those who do not have patience but over time the client also knows how to evaluate which technician knows how to work well Lve problems well I am glad to have seen your video and the truth is that every day I learn something new and I always wait for your video Greetings from Mexico.
The last thing you want to do is put gauges on an ice machine. 80% of the problems you run into with ice machines is water related. 15% is electrical and 5% is refrigeration.
I will discuss this this evening 6/8/20 @5:PM (pacific time) on UA-cam, come on over and check it out ua-cam.com/video/Kb28yZQCico/v-deo.html
OMG, self contained units. So many times I have been called in because servicing Co cant diagnose the leak. THATS BECAUSE THERE NEVER WAS ONE!!!!! To many techs LOVE to put gauges on machines with 5' hoses, LOL/ Smaller self contained units hold less than 1lb charge under counter units less than 6 oz some times. Pust those hoses on once or twice and you remove a fair % of units charge.
Man fell into this channel somehow. Much like Louis Rossmans mac repairs I really don't know anything about this but it's really relaxing to watch. That said my fear that people that run restaurants/bars don't give 2 shits about cleaning their equipment is dramatically reinforced :(
It was proven by a young girl in school for her science project she took ICE from a fast food restaurant and toilet water from the same fast food restaurant and sent it to a lab. She found that the the toilet water was cleaner than the ice from the ice machine. She won 1st place in the science project.
I'm amazed you still eat in restaurants after all you've probably seen.
Bacteria builds character lol
Henry Vogt made the battle axe of production ice Machines. Worked on lots of HE40's Unfortunately they got priced out of the market since they were overbuilt and buyers don't care if a machine lasts 20 years. They just look at 4000 lbs. of ice in 24 hours and what is the cheapest machine to do that with the least water and power consumption. Also the old Scotsman pillow cube machines were pretty reliable. If you ask me, some of the machines were getting a little too overboard with energy efficiency and were having solenoid failures, especially Manitowoc's with CVD harvest.
I worked on a few of the vogt machines in the past too
Good job with the compressor diagnosis. I thought maybe there was air in the machine. I may have pulled charge and recharged with fresh filter and refrigerant before finding out the valves are bad.
If nothing else, I have now learned never to get ice from a restaurant 🤢
Fact, actually! There are guidelines on how often to sanitize an ice machine, but most restaurants clean their machines only when they have spare time, especially with the workforce being what it is right now.
Manitowoc has new updated firmware for these machines That removes the sensor's ability to shut down the machine due to any bad readings, it will still throw codes, but the sensors no longer have the authority to shut down the machine.
Chris is the man, I will use the True-Tech tools to purchase field piece joblink probe. I'm impressed by them.
Ice machine service work can't be done in a hurry. Minimum 2 hours. If your going to do it properly. Hard to bill for it or customers like to question it I find
This is crazy knowledge!!good to work there 💯
I'm always impressed how steady your cam work is, and only 1 hand free! You could get a fancy head harness to free up your hands :)
Im not a fan of body mounted cams because I get motion sickness and when editing it makes me sick.... I will discuss this on my LiveStream this evening 5/18/20 @ 5:PM (pacific time) ua-cam.com/video/UUcnVUTjJ28/v-deo.html
@@HVACRVIDEOS oh that's unfortunate! It works fine as is :)
Nobody:
The right ice machine: AAAA THE ICE IS ON FIRE
You are training your competitors with your videos.. ;)
No he isn't, there are too many steps that he leaves out. If he Competitors tried to use these as Training Videos, they'll quickly go out of Business from all their Customers wanting to Skin them Alive because of all the Damage they cause to the machines and/or failure to fix whatever problem they were call for...
Ice machines are one of the most complicated systems to diagnose.
I am probably the only one to notice but you re recorded the sporlan sponsorship message
Thanks for these Ice Machine videos. I have never worked on one but I am always trying to learn something new. It is really cool to see inside these machines and someone else troubleshoot them. Nice find on that suction reed in the compressor by the way!
Great work I like your techniques on troubleshooting who cares if you take your time you need to be through when accessing machines . Most of the time if you have to go back to the same job the customer probably won’t want to pay you . I’m the same as I hate call backs if your there on the job it doesn’t take much longer to check the whole unit over and you can always let the customer know if you find other faults or possibly faults that could cause another breakdown and down time . do it once do it right keep. And my motto is prevention is better than cure
up the great work . Cheers
Nice. A new video to watch during quarantine!
this is fascinating... I had no idea that these units are not self contained but are connected to a device on the roof
I build and work on ice makers. Peopls rarely if ever clean the icemaker. I have to tell myself not to think about it when I go somewhere. I usually dont get drinks out. Dont understand how they pass any inspection. I have not seen a clean one yet that I have worked on.
You're supposed to clean them every day I guess. But they probably do it once a month tops.
Once a month is probably right. Maybe once every 3 months. But I highly doubt many places do
I am a Manitowoc FSA. If ice machines were cleaned once a month I would be soooo happy. 90% of ice machine calls are water system related. Most are not cleaned until they stop working. It takes a screwdriver to open the front door . After that it takes NO tools to remove all sensors, water pump, water distributor etc and clean them. clean FLAT surfaces you can wipe in seconds rather than all the nook and crannies for mold and bacteria to hide. I hate to clean Scottsman water systems the most.
Cleaning and De-scaleing are two different processes. You should clean all the parts in water system monthly. You should really only DE-scale only when necessary, (melt outs on back of cubes, long harvest or freeze ups/ ice wont drop off plate), as the acid to de-scale also can remove metals from the plating and shorten evap plate life. If it takes 7 months to scale then set schedule for 6 months,. but DO NOT de scale every month unless absolutely necessary. If so address water quality problem.
Using a non nickle safe de-scaler WILL damage the evaporator plate. Use only Manitowoc chemicals. Do NOT use bleach to sanitize the plastic parts, it will make them brittle.
IMHO Manitowoc is the best machine out there. I have worked on them all past 30+ yrs.
Manitowoc Tech support is THE BEST and UNITED has 99% of the parts you will need in stock. Chances are is if you get a FSA to work on your Manitowoc that he will have the part on his service truck.
also, if the cycle times are correct, production is correct, TECH will NEVER have u change a compressor because of low discharge pressure during harvest. NOT just because JUST of that.
@@frostygt3628 At my store they used harsh cleaners and a stiff brush to clean out the ice cube part. (degreaser, bleach) Completely ruined the nickel. It was dropping two inch slabs.
The ice thickness probe is a microphone?.... mind blown 🤯
It’s probably more so an ultrasonic piezoelectric sensor. It listens for a feedback of transmitted sound. When there is no ice, the signal passes through. When the ice begins to thicken that signal / waveform changes causing it to dump the ice. Pretty cool stuff.
I wonder if it's a similar system as the parking sensors on a car. They use sound reflections to measure distance to objects.
Its an actual microphone that pick up a certain range of sound, 40K htz, i THINK.
Can I call you ahead of time whenever I'm going to stay in a hotel room? I don't think I've ever stayed in a hotel that had more than 1/4 of the ice machines working.
The ice in hotel ice machines are probably nasty. Since there are so many ice machines in the hotel building, I doubt they clean them often. Maybe they don’t even clean it unless there’s problems related to gunk buildup.
I service some Brema ice machines but not very much apart from cleaning and some ice screw elastometer couplings, so analogic and reliable...
there really is something relaxing about watching ice drop.
great video. BUT after seeing the inside of that machine, NO ICE for me thanks.. that's just nasty..
About the flat rate time the manufacturer gives you for any maintenance, it's crap. I was a line mechanic in the automotive field for years and there were only a few jobs that the flat rate could be equaled or beat. Then I found out how the manufacturer sets flat rate. A new unit is set on a work bench and a tech does a particular job and is timed. No way we can compete with that.
Sometimes the manufacturer doesn't have a good trouble shooting guide so it takes as long as it takes. I'm pretty sure you run into that.
I was an auto technician for many moons. I must say 95% of the time flate rate times are near impossible to make. Especially when you take into account time racking, trouble shooting/diagnostics, tool prep (making sure u have all the right tools and gather them onto your job cart. Then assuming you have everything together and ready to go u have at least 20 min of road testing, and double checking job quality. Unfortunately when ur working in a shop w questionable practices (if u have turned wrenches for any length of time u have come across this type of shop) u will often find the customer is billed for ur extra time/labor but that coin never makes it into the technicians check.
As for the other 5% of jobs that are easily accomplished under book time u will find one of 2 things. Either the shop will have a guy who usually changes tyres and brake pads (making $10/hr under the table) all the sudden getting every alternator, tensioner, battery and cables, starter motor, etc easy swap jobs done by this guy. Gobbling up all the easy 10min jobs that are booked at an hour (also these guys dont usually get any % of parts or labor so its win win for the shop, and lose lose for all the real techs.).
The second one u find is the shop owner (or his son/cousin/nephew/ etc) pulling the high payout low labor jobs from techs and shuffling them to undereducated noobs. If u find urself in one of these shops do urself a huge favor and start applying for new shops. Tool boxes have big wheels for a reason, so u can roll them rihht out of a poorly managed shop and into a respectable business. Shortly after leaving one of these terrible shops the place was raided, police found garbage bags full of double receipts. Some were cleverly signed by unknowing customer as part of a pile of carbon copies. Others the manager (who has a very serious cocaine addiction) would just scratch the name of a customer on a bill and run the CC the shop kept on file. Dont waste ur time or soil ur name by association with these type of shops. I had a terrible time getting a new job after potential employer found out where i was working. Fortunately if i had the opportunity to speak to a new boss they would usually understand i was fleeing the place looking for honest work.
i have fought and argued with many dispatchers and service managers to only schedule ad dispatch one call at a time.
as far as im concerned the current call im on is the only call im doing today untilim finished.
Then next call?
One call at a time.
i dontcare if there are 30 calls waiting... one at a time.
Good one Chris those ice machines can be head scratchers sometimes 👍
I'm gonna buy an ice machine, then break it just so I can get to watch you work dude.
me to
Break the evaporator so that you will need a new machine
New guys, whether u r working on an ice machine, a rtu, spilt system, or chiller. The best thing u can do is log it out, put it on paper and the numbers will lead you to the problem
Cleetus mcfarland FF factory has inherited ice machines.. Link up with cleetus Ur channel will take off in views
wrong side of the USA...... east vs west lol
I see legos, I immediately know you're a man of culture, and I like that.
I had an encounter with those manitowoc ice machines it had a High Pressure cut off stuck and would not close.
Would like to see some videos on compressor dissection.
Until the end, good diagnostics thanks.
Well ain't that a neat thing. I know that consumer ice maker in the freezer is a motorized ice tray. To see that the commercial grade is an air conditioner in it's basic form is really cool.
My history with Manitowoc goes all the way back to the A series. Wow I'm old 😆😆😆
My history with Manitowoc started with the Q series and on the Hoshizaki machines it goes back to the old dssu machines....
Manitowoc, quiet cube remote!! My favorite!!!
Did you end up changing out the probes? Also, don't be too hard on yourself. You are a top tier technician, man. No. Doubt. About. It.
Stephen M absolutely. Chris is amazing, and i bet his customers agree, if he gets called out you can bet he either knows whats wrong and has fixed it or is ordering parts to get it fixed by the end of it
If our ice bins ever got that dirty we would be shot. That is disgusting.
First visit do you bill all hours on site monitoring the machine for a diagnosis? Interested as some customers dont like paying for all hours for diagnosis
Customer pays for all hours if customer wants the repair done correctly. Try and get away with only paying for the food that you eat off your plate. The customer will charge you for the whole cheeseburger platter regardless if you don't eat the fries that came with it...
Can you tell me what book you are looking at and where I could get one. Thanks.
I like your videos . Very helpful. An u r rite IM are very time consuming. An bosses dont understand an they want them running in a couple of hours. Im going to show this video to my boss. Lol. Keep doing what you do. Your a great tech.
How do we not get sick with all this gross crap?
ALCOHOL !!!
@@eddiewhaler1 bottoms up! lol
hot gas valve and or TXV I have found this on quite cubers. love your site.
I agree you should do the best you can during a service, the best way to piss off a customer is to turn up every week to do another repair. Yep there are cowboys out there but normally the word gets out and (hopefully) they don't last long. Kudos for your work ethic, be nice if every person would consider repairs or replacements as they were doing it on their own home or business. Sometimes the real world sucks, because cowboy's still exist. Still catching up on all your videos, theirs so many it might take awhile but well worth it if for nothing else the entertainment value along with a good system of troubleshooting. you keep going on about the faults you do but in the long run you have a lot of happy customers and a great viewing audience, not to mention all those that want to get in your line of work that have some awesome reference material.So entertaining and educational, thank you from one who really enjoys you videos and troubleshooting methods. I might be retired but if well taught I can always learn new things. Thank you.
Question, when you dine out do you ask for a drink w/o ice:) Pretty nasty in there! Also you explained at the end you choose to take the time you need to oversee a repair. Does that reflect in the billable hours or do you charge them a flat rate knowing what the repair takes?Unless it’s a uncommon model. In the auto industry we use a flat rate guide for the most part.
You should update the firmware on the units go to manitowoc website and you can download the newest firmware. also you can check the voltage on the control board for you thickness probe should get 3.25 to 3.35 vdc if you dont you will have a bad control board.
Awesome diagnosis.
I never realized they use mics to listen for the ice cracking. Does the machine use the frequency of the cracks or decibel level to determine when to harvest?
Its not listening for the cracks its actually listening for the turbulent sound of the water running over the ice, as the ice gets thicker the water gets closer to the microphone
@@HVACRVIDEOS very cool. Thanks for the reply. I have some knowledge in this stuff but not a lot. More so residential than commercial
I thought the thumbnial said "Goth ice machines are down" ... :)
Don’t mind working on these units, I like the real time data
i wath your videos at 3 am for no reason
cool stuf btw
@@edwardcannon9199 hey man.
What is the make, model, and average price of your wristwatch. Where did you get it from? Thanks, Chris.
Good video 👍 haven't worked alot of newer Manitowoc bit the older q and s alot
Great video Chris. 👍👍
As said in markets: "The trend is your friend" 👍
I would rather work on a 1500 tin chiller then work on an ice machine. Ice machines are patients and experience
The manufacturers are testing in lab not in real world setting
Great advice and video.
Ice makers , an excercise in patience .