Surprising Results - 14900K Delidding
Вставка
- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
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Music / Credits:
Outro:
Dylan Sitts feat. HDBeenDope - For The Record (Dylan Sitts Remix)
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Paid content in this video:
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Samples used in this video:
- Intel 14th Gen CPUs
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:44 Starting position before delidding
3:17 Delidding the 14900K
4:03 Heatspreader comparison
4:13 12900K vs 13900KS vs 14900K delidded
4:37 Preparing CPU & IHS
5:03 Measuring the CPU
6:17 Measuring IHS
7:16 14900K with liquid metal
9:14 14900K: Stock vs delidded
9:40 With contact frame
10:07 Summary/Conclusion
12:22 Outro - Наука та технологія
The fact that der8auer records in German and English for every video is some crazy dedication. Huge respect.
Yea, almost double the work! Besides prepping for the video, he does everything twice, and has to edit 2 videos everytime!
der8auer will be greatly benefit from the help of HeyGen AI, if you dont know what that is, google it. you will be impressed
Yes, it's good that he does this.
Was is das? 😳😱🤗
@@brucepreston3927 Aaaah, I wouldn't say it's anywhere near double the work. The technical testing and setup takes longer than any other part by far. Video prep isn't doubled, recording and editing is the only part doubled. He's smart though, maybe 20% more work to give or take double his views.
A leap in performance that can't be measured
We're talking upper mid single digits! I think I even saw 6% at one point in a game benchmark!
Hahaha 🤣
Literally can't measure it
Immeasurable
"You can literally see it ! " Intel Computex 2021 opening keynote meme.
Ah good to see DerCat is also present again. ps: DerCat is not sleeping - DerCat is in energy safe mode ;)
derMeower
DerKater
@@pneumaticFrequency😂
derKatze
DeFeline
That height profiling equipment is pretty cool
Yeah, I wonder if it could be used in watchmaking
@@vincent67239 it is used in watchmaking, but its Keyance so this setup is most likely somewhere around $80k
Yep! It's amazing. I've been lucky enough to get my hands on some cheap, obsolete profiling equipment off of eBay. The old stuff I have is all optical and mechanical so it requires a lot of effort and some math to come up with a measurement. The integrated software in his equipment is really where the magic happens. That magic is expensive!
I did this in the past with my KS and used Liquid Metal on both sides of the ihs with an aio and contact frame. Great results, with about 18-21C better on hottest cores and I didn't need to grind anything down.
awesome! Thanks for the info
Can you explain the point of delidding CPUs that already come with liquid metal
@@MoonSon298 These don't come with liquid metal, they come with solder. While solder is better than thermal paste, liquid metal is better than solder.
@@fearthechad I think it's more about the thickness of that solder compared to a really thin layer of LM.
@@fearthechad I see thanks for the clarification thought indium was liquid metal
What a week indeed. The gains from 13th-14th really had me going up a wall my dude.
hahaha
Thank for the video, der8auer! Just what I needed as I have a EKWB direct die block & just bought a 14900k & I was hesitant to delid it without an expert doing it first.
I love your Sunday vids. Sunday is the only day off I have from work and I love waking up and seeing a new vid from you every Sunday, really makes my morning! Awesome content as usual and please keep em coming!!!
I was just asking you about the delidding for the 14900K and found this ONLY video! Thank you for doing this and look forward to doing this with my new Hackintosh setup! I'm really glad you did this video, because I had ALREADY ordered the EK-Quantum Velocity² Direct Die D-RGB and Thermal Grizzly Intel 13th Gen Delid-Die-Mate, before watching this new video. Glad that I ordered those and look forward to seeing even better results with NO lid on that CPU.
that is a fantastic result, i’m impressed!😊
good video. thank you for the info and the work you do.
Wonder how far you can push it with direct die cooling.
Direct die is the way to go. I’m doing 6.1 all-core and 4.7 on the e-cores but I think I can get a better chip that can do a bit better.
@@tony_bauer @400Watts
You could disable all the unused HWiNFO sensors to drop its CPU usage, as well as greatly improve readability.
-Sysinfo is the smaller of the loads. OBS is the hog, if 3 to 4 percent CPU load can be called a hog...-
Edit: So I looked back on the taskmanager in the video and to my surprise HWInfo is indeed the largest loaf at about 4%. OBS isn't even visible in the list sorted after CPU load, high to low...
Even better would be tapping directly into the SMBUS with an external microcontroller the way out-of-band management controllers (like Dell DRAC or HP iLO) in servers do. A number of motherboards have smbus headers you could read from, and they all have an smbus you could solder to
@@mycosys SM BUS, thanks, it's on a header.
How do you clean off the Indium solder?
The last time I de-lided was back when intel CPU's used paste (3rd gen i7's for example) and didn't have capacitors on the PCB that could be sheered off.
Love the content man! If i don't watch for knowledge or guidance, ill throw you on in the background for the ambiance. Also wanted to say i REALLY love the Kryonaut! I picked some up for my upgrades and noticed a good 6-7c decrease in thermals under full load compared to Noctua paste. Some would say that's mostly marginal, i say its more than enough for me to be completely satisfied. Thank you for all you bring to the space/community.
12C drop is good result from any perspective. I was sold on Liquid metal back when I did my i9-7900X and saw a 18C drop in terms on the X299 board. Even the 12700K saw a 10C drop and I done run it as hard as i did the 7900X. I am keen to see this as a last upgrade for the LGA1700 to last me another 3 years. Thanks again Roman good work.
eagerly waiting for your coverage of 7000WX and pro series chips!
00:04 Testing the compatibility and performance of the 14900K delidding
01:38 Delidding results in higher overclocking potential for improved CPU performance.
02:56 Peak power draw was 293 Watt.
04:45 The video discusses the process of delidding a CPU and modifying the IHS.
06:18 The height profile of the area shows it is at a perfect 0.3mm, indicating no need for adjustment on the heat sink.
07:54 Maximum core temperature after second cinebench run: 93.1°C
09:37 Delidding with IHS and contact frame resulted in significant temperature improvements.
11:03 Delidding and modifying a CPU with liquid metal can provide a temperature improvement of 2 to 6 degrees Celsius.
Nice video, well done, thanks for sharing it :)
@5:50 What is this underfill material on the sides of the die? Is it the same silicon, or something else?
Question: Can i use my 12gen delid tool and my EKWB direct die water block on the 14th gen? Or do I have to buy all new blocks/ socket retention and delid tools? The direct die surface looks like it will cover the 14th gen and the socket is the same. I have a delidded 12900k with a direct die water block with liquid metal.
Did you put back the ihs after putting the conductonaut , after which the ihs again froze on and then to remove it will we again need delidding tool ?
im wondering if kryosheet is safe to put on laptops due to vibrations while moving the machine
Hi, I love your videos. Can the EK-Quantum Velocity² Direct Die D-RGB - 1700 Nickel + Plexi be used with 14900K ?? It is the same right ??
As someone who has purchased the Delid Die Mate and the Thermal Grizzly Mycro Direct-Die CPU Water Block RGB I can recommend the block and the delid tool. It has made a huge difference to load and idle temps. Outstanding craftsmanship.
Is that Mycro direct-die cpu water block for 13th/14th gen? I thought he only made it for AMD.
@@Spinelli__ Only for AM5. It works flawlessly.
@@thomaswilliams Thanks. Darn, I wish there was one for 13th / 14th gen.
@Spinelli__ EKWB Has one for i914900k.
From what I understand from both Kingpin and others, running direct die is really not of any benefit for these 1700 socket chips. This solution with liquid metal and reinstalling the IHS provide the same results. I also believe that the 9.1GHz clock done by ASUS was done with an IHS, not direct die. No experience, just what is floating around out there.
So the pcb to to chip is the same between 13th and 14th gen . Only difference is a fraction of mm on the IHS heigth?
Delidding raptor lake works well for me
Btw what AIO did you use in this video ? 100°C at less than 300w is pretty bad tbh
Very nice to see your content, thank you Roman. Would your contact frame allow direct die option ? I convinced a friend to go direct die and we bought the whole set of yours but for a 13900KF and now i am stuck with my question ... Thanks again for what you provide us 🙂
Roman, always give your videos a watch/support just because of this sort of thing. You're not someone who will stick to a "point" stubbornly and not admit maybe a new view. It would be interesting to see if this sort of result can also be achieved with the lower end CPUs, if so, it would seem that maybe "14th Gen" is not as bad as first thought and a good value proposition, especially for those who live in hotter climates.
Perhaps 14700K,,,
Roman isn't conformal coating required with bare die and IHS? One thing in confused with latest Intel CPU is high temperature, i still don't understand if the chip is hot or is it trying to boost to maximum TJmax value until throttling temp limit takes over. It can be especially confusing on Intel laptops wherein I'm unsure if it has worse cooling or worse tdp setting from factory allowed to hit throttling temps ASAP
I've just recovered from the mind blowing experience of 14th gen myself, what a wildly innovative and completely revolutionary series of products.
Zen+ all over again.
@@basshead. Nah, Zen+ was legit. 2nd gen Ryzen went from 14nm to 12nm at GF. Added more instruction sets and was way more stable than 1st gen. Granted uplift wasn't great, but it was up to 15% in some cases. It's nothing like 14th gen Intel.
@@alienrenders Agreed, Zen+ didn't offer any earth-shattering improvements but it was far more stable and easier to live with. I would hazard to say that Zen+ was a far more impressive uplift than 13th>14th gen Intel.
It is what it is. Same price, at least where I am - actually the 14900K is about 15 Euro cheaper... And when I bench the 13900K and 14900K I have right here, the 14900K is faster.
14900K scores 40400 in CB and the other 37180. Both clamped at 253 watts, -0.07 offset, LLC 5 and at 83-85 C.
The difference may not be huge, but I've yet to see anyone with a 14 i9 K that ran slower than a 13 i9 K.
does that extra thermal headroom allow for a better overclock since you arent thermal throttling?
Just realized that Roman's a Stargate fan. I knew this guy was awesome, but good to have confirmation!
By the way, can I use the EK-Quantum Velocity² Direct Die D-RGB unit for a fully delidded 14900K CPU? Let me know please. Thank you.
I'm not sure how seriously I can take der8auer now that I've seen he doesn't use the Dark Mode theme in Windows.
Is it possible after delidding the cpu and replacing it with liquid metal it will degrade faster right ?
Thank you!! Doing mine today with your delidder :))
I noticed you used a cpu with rog bios rating of SP 82 which I guess makes it more commonplace as opposed to golden. Interesting experiment, thanks!
could extra extra precious bin cpus use edm machined heat spreader be any usefull
Could you do a couple more, just to see if this is a mildly consistent with other CPUs? I’m planning a new system and would be down for giving some feedback.
Will you be playing with the new Threadrippers at all Roman ?? Apparently WR set by AMD for R23, previously held by a dual EPYC.
Great use of the Derlidder on this -Core i9 13980K- oops, I mean 14900K
What about lapping ? I have the lapping tool and it did well on my 13600k but with my 14900k I’m hesitant to do it and void the warranty as I’m having some stability and seemingly a worse imc than my 13600k.
Also I lapped my cold plate prior and I’m thinking I’m not getting even contact I think so could using a lapped cold plate be causing me stability issues on a non lapped cpu? 😮
CPU crystal height 400 um, CPU cover height 300 um, so there is no space between CPU and cover in total ? and CPU cover hanging on the chip ?
On a different subject, I purchased your new ryzen delidding tool and after removing the IHS and cleaning the silicon realized that the chiplets are not parallel. It took a significant amount of lapping to create a single plane surface for my waterblock. After some thought I decided to remachine the waterblock to alter the water flow by 90 deg trying to improve the temps across the cores. Have you tried this ? It seems like all waterblocks are primarily designed around intel chip layout. EK has offset their inlet but are still cooling the cores along the long axis.
That was surprising at first, but after thinking the difference makes sense. Probably one of the reasons why Indium is as thick as it is. Allows for manufacturing tolerances and means that they don't have to make sure that every wafer is exactly the same.
It's easy to forget just how small 0.1mm is, and how expensive it can be to get everything perfect.
the difference between 13th gen and 14th gen is , 14th gen is a higher IPC and better Quality silica due too improvements in production and experience gained from Intel's new Architecture . better more refined quality Silica with lower temps , higher boost clock out of box and better overclocking potential . most reviewers didn't understand or know really what was going on .
Wonderful video.
What lapping tool do uou use?
The fact that you dont do Direct die means to me that the EKWB direct die product is still faulty :S
Is there any possibility you revisit the matter and check the new Revised Direct die Cold plate ?
Thanks Roman , Happy healthy new year !
For this or even for 10c on average - this is a great result. I would delidde my CPu for 10c. I got your delidder for i9 9900K but did not do it due that I hear 10c was hard to achieve. 10c temp that will be lowered from stock is a great result and I would do it. Sell your special delidder for that fancy shnancy for a good price limited edition from Germany.
Great video
It worked out well!
For many months I was looking for the DIE height of the processor, I always looked for that name on the internet: on Google and UA-cam but I never found even a video or article about it. And then, casually watching your video without the intention of finding this information: boom. I came across the information I was looking for so long. Just for this information you already deserve my like + subscription.
Fyi- there is one capacitor on the board that is slightly taller than the core processor. If you're planning on direct die cooling, be aware of that.
Instead of using liquid metal, what would the results be if you covered the inside of the IHS lid with a KryoSheet?
I am currently working on a similar project, but with the Z690 Extreme Glacial Motherboard and a delidded i9-14900K. When comparing our systems in BIOS (7:51), I notice that we have the same frequency of 5700 MHz. While that appears fine, your Core Voltage is sitting much lower at [1.376 V], and mine is sitting at [1.447 V (Stock)]. Additionally, I am using a slim 240mm custom EKWB Loop for testing, which I realize might not be sufficient for this system. Please let me know if you have any suggestions as to how I could improve or "fix" this setup (Anyone's help would be greatly appreciated), Thank you!
Hi, I don't understand what you did. It seems to me you just replaced indium with Gallium.
By cleaning the heatspreader you tightened the fit, the die ends up closer to the heatspreader ? is that it ? otherwise I don't see where the improvement came from. And you're cpu isn't safe anymore, the heatspreader is now loose.
I got 13C drop by deliding and using direct die from EK on 13900ks. Glad it matches the pros results.
What about direct die? Is that something you could test?
13900kf, direct die block, CB23 around 44000
Thanks, i wasn't sure about what i should do vs my 13900KS. I have it OC to 5.8P core and 4.4E core, no issues scores around 419k on r23.
we can soon start measuring the power draw in horsepower of these things..
I just delid my i9 14900k and i get error 63 on my z790 rog , did i brock my cpu? ( i was not trying to test him before delid) i get also some black screen when i look youtube it s a new build and i dont know if it s from my i9 or my mother board … metal liquid can make this problem?
How did it go
13th gen didn't sell, so they put a 14 on the box.
Can you make a video with max oc vs stock ?
is there no way to test direct die mounting? i miss the days of direct die mounting on my old athlon xp's.
Would we be able to order a 14900K with either the Advanced Edition mod or the Pro Edition mod? Or could one ship a CPU to you and have either of these mods done?
Hello, do you have 14900k in stock, can you do the rendering in adobe premiere 2023-2024?I would like to know the rendering time in H264 CBR 50mbit in a 4k project, for example, 10 minutes of video(4k) in 4k
TY, About what I thought it would be.
Always der-bleeding edge from der8auer! Who you gonna call? (we know!) All give a big thx to Roman ...
Where is the thermal grizley direct die lga1700 block?
Do follow-up video how much better it overclocks now...
Honestly if I were Intel, I'd have put a proper lid and thermal paste for the 14900k, so that it can at least have a better cooling than a 13900K.
Too much cost, they’ve got fanboys to profit of!
rreiter
Same as cars, standard BMW M5 Good enough, or you need better ?
Next time, can you please review performance with an aftermarket IHS (e.g. Rockit)?
Definitely in my top five list of best Germans. Keep up the great work
Who's number 1
ferric chloride on a Q-tip will dissolve the solder and leave a factory smooth finish on the die.
my take on Delide vs STOCK / minor throttle vs all cores throttling, smoothness with responsiveness / i said take silicon gel make a thin coat on the chip put the heat spreader on as if you are using the silicon gen as thermal compound ... then remove the heat spreader and observe how the silicon makes little stripes and lines and bubbles to show where the high sides as well as edge of chip overall flatness i use paper nail files to level it flat until it's a suction cup to the heat spreader / around the edge and some times in the middle longest sides in the middle
last thing to do put the his to copper watersand it to 4000 grip mirror finish for better disipation water sand also yr cooling unit to mirror same process for powerfull contact
I`d really love to see the EK direct die waterblock on that delidded 14900k, and with a chiller hooked up to it (-20c water).
The EK direct die block is actually really bad. Supercool or Iceman Direct Die blocks perform much better.
@@jjlw2378can you elaborate on this? I’m in the market but don’t really know where to start for reliable research
Getting ready for a new build. I think I'll try the new CPU with my 4 pipe air cooler initially, just to make sure it, and the motherboard are working before I rip the IHS off.
Now this is content
why didnt you check direct die temps?
Just did this to make Jay's build take an extra day.
Regardless of Intel's choices thank you Roman for the interesting amazing vids!
This is how intel is producing it's CPU's, only 0.3 % need 5.8 Ghz for gaming gear, only 0.0036 % of them do this. Not a market for them.
I have a question, how flat is the die itself?
finally, an actually measurable improvment in production! kudos Intel! 🎉
Intel clearly missed the opportunity to call this a "refresh", with CPUs being named Core i7 13770K, Core i9 13980K, etc...
I've never understood why the metal paste could perform better than the welding. Aren't both metal?
Impressive
What a nice tool to measure the height and also get the 3D representation. I wonder hown t does that, it uses some lasers to focus and then measure the distance?
It is like this on 10 or 5 other similar chips? Mabye the improvements are bigger than intel can "realize" or make effective.
In measuring the height difference you were saying mm(millimeter) however the symbol being shown was micro meter(um). ??? Perhaps he was translating micrometers to millimeters?
Born too late to meet Nikola Tesla, Too early to see Flying cars but the right time to be born in Germany and be able to watch both of his videos
DerKat ❤
Very interesting.
I used 14900kf with supercool direct die for a couple of days while testing and comparing it with 13900ks, these are two absolutely identical processors, there are no differences in appearance. But the IMC of the 14900kf turned out to be so garbage that even 8000 on the 790 apex were unstable, so I sold it immediately after the tests. This "new generation" reminds me of the 11th gen))) no improvements, just replaced one digit on the lid and pulled up the turbo boost.
the video i was waiting for. now i can replace my direct die cooled 12700kf, with a 14900k.
First thing I did with my 14900k was under volt it. Lost a lot of heat and saved about 80 watts in Cinebench R23 without losing any points on the final score.
Can I buy one of these from you ready to go?
Can we have some results with Direct Die please ? Thank you.
It would be interesting to see the numbers with KryoSheet under the IHS.