SHARPENING MILLING CUTTERS
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- In this video I sharpen a woodruff key cutter on the cutter grinder. I'm getting the hang of this machine a little at a time. The results are promising and before long Ill be able to sharpen about anything..
I love running this machine as much or more than any machine I have ever run.. Want to help support this channel and help me bring better content? Consider joining my patreon by visiting the link / stevesummers
I totaly enjoy these videos, thank you!
Stefan Gotteswinter Me too😃. Thanks Stefan 👍
What a great machine, in just a few short decades you will have it down pat 😎 Glad to see it making old cutters useful again ~ Richard
Makin Sumthin From Nuthin Thanks Richard, good to see you.
It will take some time to get good on it. I can see why people buy them then try to run them for a few days then push them over to the corner of the shop to die.
When we graduated from high school we thought we were done! Wrong! We never quit learning and you are a perfect example for those who watch. Thank you so much, Greg.
Charles Compton Everyday is a class for me. I love learning new things. Even if I have to be my own teacher. Thanks for watching Greg👍
Very useful. I've just ordered a copy of that book along with the Cincinnati No.2 cutter and tool grinder operation handbook. Both are available as a free PDF online if anyone needs a copy. Many thanks
As the new owner of a 50+ year old mk1 clarkson tool and cutter grinder I'm extremely glad I found your channel.
You have a great channel Steve! Sprung collets cause runnout. As to sharpening key cutters, I was taught to never circle grind a cutting edge. The circle grind will rub and not cut efficiently. Always use a cup wheel with a properly positioned cutter and grind the anglular edges to clean up the dull edge.
Thanks Steve for sharing your knowelge, and making us all want a tool and cutter grinder.
slypig24 What's not to want about a cutter grinder😃. Everyone that has a home shop should have one. 👍
Steve you are doing a great job teaching yourself and us how to get it done great job ,I bring my big horizontal mill home tomorrow I can't wait to start learning myself
David Loftis Congratulations on the mill👍. Wish I had one. Thanks for watching David
Morning Steve we never stop learning and Abom can find it in print if possible which is always a big help. I find myself being in a refresher coarse with you guys seeing how I had been out of the life while pursuing other things but I've come full circle I'm back to what I love which making things in metal, wood, plastics and glass so again thanks Steve I know Adam is having a meet and greet in Chattanooga then I believe he is making his way on up to Louisville on his travels it would be nice to see him drop in on you and at Brian's to see that Abom size forklift he has acquire so keep my refresher course coming😎
bigdawgsbusa2 He is comming here. He is visiting me and Brian and then we are having a Meet & greet in Louisville. 👍
Hi Steve,
It looks like you are learning a lot and having fun at it as well. Great job!
Steve
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. I'm starting to get the hang of it. The way I was dressing the wheel in the beginning was a problem. Now I'm not dealing with loading near as bad. LoL, all the little things are the difference between a good job and bad one.
Thanks Steve👍
I see that you are having a good time. It's nice to see so many other YT'ers liking your video. Adam's a generous fellow as well.
nice work Steve. to check relief angles (when it's important) I get by with an inexpensive USB microscopes. Look for one that comes bundled with measuring software. I got a MiView from Saelig for $50-$60. Cheapskate's optical comparator. :)
This Old Tony Never even thought about going that route. Thanks for the PRO Tip😉. I think I will do that.
Doesn't look like Saelig sells them anymore. :( I did find a Celestron on Amazon that's similar priced ($76) and comes with a decent looking stand.
I'm a hobbyist and far away from knowledge or experience, but my first thought to measure the angle or to inspect the shape was:
Put the cutter upstanding on a scanner, maybe a MFP (Multi-Function-Printer), witch at this time most poeple owned, and make a scan in highest possible resulution. Then you should be able to inspect the shape and measure the angles of the tooths at a PC. There should be many free software for image editing (like gimp or inkscape) wich should have a function for that. ;-)
Very interesting! thanks for sharing. I have never seen any videos on using a cutter grinder. Looking forward to more. Thanks again
Thanks for a very well edited video. I have a Cincinnati #2 machine. You are very much on track. There are most always three or more "correct" ways to do a job, Just pick the one you like the most. You are helping a lot of people as you are learning. Have fun. George
george stone That #2 is a super nice machine. I just about bought one at the same time I got my shaper. It was well used and abused so I passed it up. As you know they are also huge👍. Thanks for watching George, I really appreciate it
Great job Steve, big pat on the back! You have single handedly caused Stefan Gotteswinter to sell his shaper and now he is looking for a cutter grinder! Keep up the good work!
A woodruff key has a defined diameter with a tolerance. If you grind your cutter below the smallest tolerance then you have to throw it away because the standard woodruff keys would not fit in the milled seat any more. I understand that this is only a grinding exercise. But in principle you would have to check the diameter after grinding.
About the run out in the milling trial. I see only two possibilities: A) the centers of the tool are not concentric to the cylindrical shank of the tool. In this case you should not only grind the teeth but also the shank in the same setup. B) The disc with the teeth on it wobbles axially. In this case you would have to grind the upper and lower surface of the disc in the same setup as grinding the teeth and make sure you don't make the disk narrower than the smallest tolerance for woodruff keys or they won't fit in. In this case you could compensate by moving the cutter sideways to broaden the seat so the keys would fit again.
Steve.
The original formula for calculating the amount to raise the wheel head "H" is as follows.
H = D/2 x Sine of clearance angle required.
So in your example,
H = 6.848/2 x Sine 7 degrees.
H = 3.424 x 0.122
H = 0.418
Hi Steve.
Being an Old Retired Toolmaker having spent many years on all types of Precision Grinding Machines working for The Australian Government you will find it easier if you leave your table set on the zero marks then lightly Tap The Workhead..making sure you only firmly tighten The Head Bolts on The Rotational Dial.
Also we only ever used White Lead for Lathe Centres when we were at Technical College however we only ever used Machine Oil on Cutter,Cylindrical & Thread Grinders & make sure The centres are not over tightened in The Centres of whatever you want to Grind..
Worked in a tool and cutter grinding company , I could do them but was not done often because of the cost
Looks like you are getting it figured out pretty well. There is a lot more to learn to this than to my fancy drill bit grinder. I know all about living with run out. :-(
bcbloc02 This old mill has tons of issues. Works for most the things I do. All you can do most the time is work around it and account for it as I am sure you know👍. Thanks for stopping by Brian.
Now that you have the book with the formulas your accuracy will improve exponentially. Great content. I miss milling, my back is gone from years of steam plant welding, rigging, wrenching, lathe and millwright. We always sent our windmills & cutters out for sharpening. I always wanted to learn. So vicariously thru you!
It's a neat process for sure. Learning relief angles / primary and secondary depending on the metal that you intend to cut they change of course. Lots to learn when it comes to cutter grinding.👍
Very nice to be able to learn, as you do, look forward to them each week.
All my machines are down as I remodel my shop, hope to get them up and going in the next few weeks.
Jeff Erdman I want to see you run them Jeff👍. Put in some overtime and get those machines up and going 😃
Excellent video Steve. Nice of Abomb to send you the book. Have to brush up on my math before I try this. Like to get a fixture for my surface grinder so I can do end mills. Grinder is running. Video coming soon. We need to swap stickers... oh my...I have old man eyes, optivision tome for sure. Keep the great videos coming. 👍👍👍
Flathead Ron's Garage email me at Noel.steve15@gmail.com and we can exchange info👍
Good to see you Ron
Top job mate , i was taught to grind down onto the finger with the wheel running the opposite way , all good .
Max Grant In the book I have it shows both ways. I run the wheel in the direction I did because of the wheel arbor nut direction.
My old apprentice training books show both ways as well ,the way you have done it theres less tendancey to leave a burr on the cutting edge - well done .
Thanks Steve. Looks like you need a new weather man.. LOL I enjoy following the cutter grinder videos. I have a book that has some cutter grinding in it. I have been reading and watching you so I have a better idea of what to do. I do not have a grinder but it helps to understand how these cutters are ground . Thanks again and Good luck with the garden. Next you will be chasing the raccoons out of the corn patch.. LOL
Steve. go back to Stan to fix your mill, search his channel with "R 8 Spindle Regrind"
When you test a spindle, test the spindle, not the cutter or the collet, which just confuse the issue...
Great video, I am really enjoying your videos on the T & C grinder, both repairing it and on working with it. Thanks! Keep them coming...
That is quite a machine. A person could make a good side income with it. On the corn, has your dad ever tried putting up some of the plastic webbed snow fence around his garden as a wind break? Similarly they make plastic strips ypu can thread through chain link fence for privacy that block wind quite well. You'd be stuck looking at the fence but it would save some work as long as the fence didn't blow away. 😏
Great Video Steve !!! Looks Good , Cuts Good , Aint Nothin Wrong With That !!!
Very informative, now i can use my tools and cutter grinder much better than i used previously, thanks for sharing
I’m glad you’re up and running.
Very educational Steve, great job from a practical to theory demonstration prospective .
Keep up the good work and I hope your corn is ok .
Sean
Sean logie Corn is fine My dad had it stood back up the next day. It's just a pain to deal with. Thanks for watching 👍
I started my carer in a plant here in PA making cutter tools and taps, i ran a tool and cutter grinder an also a radius grinder job title was a tangent arc profile grinder, learn a lot about shaping end mills but that was back in the day
You will save a ton of money on tooling. I like it, looks to me like you have it figured out.
I see you saving a few bucks on tooling. Also, gaining new friends with buckets of dull tooling. 😀
_Dan_
I would have to agree with that. extra shop income as well.
Excellent video, can't wait for the next one !
Good job.. Steve..
Great information. Seems like the community is helping you with the missing fixtures, literature and methods. What a cool situation and thanks for documenting it with new challenges and ways to achieve the results.
Keep on learning, I learn from your learning!
Steve
If you plant hedge rows around your gardens they will provide a very good wind break. Other benefits with hedge rows assist in good soil health and water management as lower subsoil retains more water.
If you call on the local fab shops chances are good they will have dull Rotorbroachs laying around. Locally here these run about $40 each so are worthwhile resharpening. You will need to do a batch at a time to make things pay.
I find it interesting that a material our parents/grandparents were buying by the bucket to mix with a barrel of linseed oil to make white house paint is now a deadly poison.
The grinding is interesting. If I lived next door I'd want to borrow the book to read so we could talk about it. Nice work!
It was always a deadly poison.
I just added a cutter grinder to my shop too. Big steep curve for sure.
Sharpening cutters used to be a specialized job. T&G grinders are complex machines with many degrees of freedom besides X, Y and Z. But you are doing just fine and I am happy to watch over your shoulder add take notes:)
Interesting! Always wondered how they ground those. After that storm hit you, it rolled east and got me. Flooded my garage.
Craig L. Young It dropped some heavy rain and wind. Sucked.. Good to see you Craig👍
Good job Steve I'm new at machining great video
Great video Steve Cheers
now I Really enjoyed this vid , Thanks so much Steve !
ShawnMrFixitlee Thank you for watching Shawn
I'll wait until you have butchered up all your cutters and the ones I sent for practice(but learned) and THEN I'll send you my good ones....... LOL
Good stuff Steve. You are already way above most of us.
LEARNING WITH YOU EXCELLENT STUFF WELL DONE
GRAHAM PETTITT Glad I can help. The cutter grinder is a tough machine to learn. I plan to learn this machine top to bottom inside and out.
I love your videos and garden and surrounding area with the brooke etc Regards Graham
Thanks Steve for a tutorial on something there isn't a lot of information on.
Paul Erickson Tell me about it😃. Almost nothing on cutter grinders on UA-cam. At least as far as how it's done.
ya hey steve I've had that book for like 10 years now mine is a 1938 copyright it has the tighter spiral wire binding way harder to turn the pages you got the improved version it looks like and uh machinerys handbook has a section on tool grinding it has a quick reference table for wheel diameter and hight above the wheel centerline for desired clearance angle (direct infeed grinding) page 831 in my 27th edition the opposite page shows the indicator drop method and theres a couple othe table's in there that can be handy real good stuff some nice long videos of the things you learn are great I really think your gonna turn some people onto some knowledge they didn't know existed from the things I see you doing I thought you'd been doing this for years like the wheel hubs and id grinding spindle any thing in the Norton book you can follow up in depth in machinerys handbook your videos are very entertaining love the breaks to go out and look around the farm and being able to make custom cutters is a real gem to posses I don't have a tool grinder always wanted one of them brown and shape copper colored ones though thanks steve you got some good stuff keepit comin
Thanks👍. I'm actually pretty new to the machining world compared to a lot of the guy's.
Learning something new every day. Thanks for watching and commenting, I really appreciate it
I'm tellin ya you got talent, machinery's hand book has a lot of dimension's that cutters are to be finished to my jaw dropped to the ground when you trued that key cutter with a cylindrical grind won't be good for a half moon or woodruff key but a make a key slot maybe, keep it up that is a handy handy thing to know about that ko lee is a cool tool to have the knowledge of
Great Video Steve Keep them coming!!
Like the vids!! I do have a suggestion for you. For sharpening and truing cutters with a shank you could save yourself some time by investing in a collect indexer. That way you could put the OD angles and also true the cutter in the same step. It’s a lot faster than working with centers. Oops, I should have watched the whole vid first. But the collet indexer Is faster in set up.
All ready working overtime plus some. Busy time of year for my industry, plus I spend 10 to 30 hours each month volunteering. But believe me I can not wait to get them up and running.
Jeff Erdman I know you are Jeff, I know your type person👍
thanks Steve.really appreciate it.
Lookin good Steve!
Nicely done Steve! IMO skip the cylindrical grind as it is not necessary. keep up the great work.
ATB, Robin
ROBRENZ Makes sense. Guess no need on a cutter with nothing more than dull edges. Got to grind past the damage anyway to get a good edge.👍 Thanks for stopping by Robin I really appreciate it.
That was my thought as well Robin, you are grinding the edge to the full diameter or to the radius of the smallest tooth thereby you achieve the cutting edges of all the teeth at the same radius concentric with the shaft. Or more accurately the centres at each end of the shaft. Long winded I know lol
Keep up the good work. I am certainly learning a ton from you. Also I got your sticker. Thank you for that. :)
Hi Steve I suspect you have all ready done this but, have you tried to adjust the gibs on your mill because if you can and the table will run true then it’s not that bad a job to replace the spindle bearings on the mill, then you wouldn’t have to look for another one.
Regards Alan.
That was really interesting Steve. It always amazes me that you guys can be making a part that is big and heavy but the tolerances you’re working to is 0.001 to 0.0001 of an inch.
Btw I received the stickers you sent me. Thanks again for those Steve I really appreciate it.
That’s what I guessed but I wasn’t completely sure , Thanks for the info🙂👍
Went from a total guess to a education guess. Like Spock i will take your guesses over others facts. Thanks for sharing
Speaking of stickers....
I'd like to have a couple of yours!
Very good info here Steve. I have a tool cutter grinder made in Italy that it seems no parts or information is available for this thing so I've decided to RIP everything out electrically and called on a few of my buddies including Stan, and Larry, to help me "American-ize" it if you will. Once I get it up and running I may call on you for some advice, and or work out something to get me a copy of that book Adam sent you!
Nice job, and especially like the step by step explanation!!
I heard rumors about you possibly attending the "Bash" this year..
Maybe next year. Besides you need to sign my infamous, BFW!!!
Razor!
Hello! Your videos are extremly educational. When You alined the table, could You turn the cutter and see if You have run out on the shank?
If so You might round ground it to make the cutter work more evenly.
Very nice, thank you!
Hi Steve, I know this is a while back but couldn't you have reversed the polarity on the 3 phase motor to get the wheel turning in the right direction. I hate the idea of holding the cutter whilst grinding it.
Is it the spindle or the collet? The spindle looked steady, while the cutter shaft did not. Very good work on the regrind of the cutter. We have a cabinet maker in our area named Steve Summers. Thanks for the video Steve, they're always interesting.
i was thinking the same thing... without checking the inside of the spindle itself chances are its the collet :)
Another great viedo. is there a need in stoning the cutters when your finished grinding in some cases
Steve, As long as the VFD has a rated output that is grater or equal to the two motors. it is fine to parallel them together to run from one VFD. They will both run as same speed.
Joe Adams That's good to know. I was unsure and didn't want to burn things up so I decided to not do it and stay on the safe side. I'm not a electrician. It would be nice to use it for both
Steve Summers if the VFD is decent quality it should just fault out if it is overloaded, or if something is wired incorrectly. Instead of letting the magic smoke out!😜
Let me know if you need some advice connecting them together.
I agree. You can run parallel circuits on this one.
Joe Adams is correct, though there may be an issue with a top end or Open/ closed loop Vector and encoder feedback VFDs. Especially if you have a high performance spindle motor and tuned VFD, and just add another motor.
Most of standard VFDs' use Volts/Hertz control, and are plug & play, they don't know even if the motor/s are moving, they just output a mainly linear volts per frequency up to base speed ( 50 or 60 Hz). But they do the job.
Informative.
Rick Brandt Thanks Rick👍I seen your name and card on Adams channel the other day. He showed a picture of when you visited him.
Not to trivialize what you are doing, but grinding these cutters seems much simpler than I imagined. How would you tackle a staggered tooth woodruff cutter?
Wes Johnson I get it Wes, this is the easiest place in my mind to start. Nothing real complicated about sharpening straight teeth cutters. I just had issue getting the relief I wanted. Never sharpened a staggered tooth cutter but from what I read it's not all that bad either. You mount the cutter on a arbor between centers and you change the grind on the finger rest to allow you to sweep both right and left spiral angles. I'm most concerned about the close quarters of the ends of standard endmills. I think that will be a challenge to get satisfactory results on.
Put the lead in the garage and put a good respirator on when you're grinding just my thoughts take it or leave it, just looking out for your health but other than that good video
fascinating, and good camera work
I'm worried that beard will be pulled into the pulley.
Well done sir! Would you like to sharpen some other cutters? I have recently acquired a horizontal mill with cutters and they are all dull! I can not seem to find anyone within 100 miles to get them reground. Sure I can just buy new ones but I would like to get some practice in on the machine before investing money into new cutters.
Really no need to cylindrical grind. You are grinding to the cutting edge. Also if you were cutting a woodruff key, it would need to be the same radius as the key for a proper fit. Thanks for the videos! Keep up the good work!
check out EEZ Insted-A-Led, KBC tool sells it, great white lead alternative. I use it a lot as a millwright.
Thanks Steve. I wish you would have been making these 10 years ago when I was trying to learn to use my tool and cutter grinder. Have you checked the run out on the actual taper of your mill? Could just be a collet issue. If you ever find a reference that gives actual allowances for things like woodruff cutter diameter I hope you will share. I'm sure there is something out there, to my mind you couldn't grind a woodruff cutter very far before the key wouldn't fit.
carlquib Yeah the woodruff cutter is a certain size for a reason 😃. Not much cutter to spare. All mine are regrinds and I'm not worried about getting them out . I'm just going through the motions. Good to see you Carl👍
carlquib Yeah the woodruff cutter is a certain size for a reason 😃. Not much cutter to spare. All mine are regrinds and I'm not worried about getting them out . I'm just going through the motions. Good to see you Carl👍
Manaus Am Brasil,ótimo video gostaria de ver traduzido para o português 👏👏👏
Would like to find myself one of those. How about a short vid of your grit dust extractor?
Duane Dickey check out the video I made last week. It shows the dust system. It is a DustKop system
Guys that book is available on vintagemachinery.org as a pdf.norton tool room grinding.
I like your T&C grinder videos. Is there any reason that you chose to run the grinding wheel in the direction that you did? - a question, not a criticism.
Ian Pendlebury The wheel hub is a LH . Safety was the only real reason. Running the wheel into the edge also helps to reduce a burr on the cutting edge.
Does it mention secondary relief in that book? Could you grind a secondary clearance angle on cutter, or is it not needed?
How do you power your cutter grinder? I see you have a vfd on it, but is it a 575v motor? I have a ko lee ba960 thats a 575v 3ph motor. Were you able to find a vfd that went 220v 1ph in and 575v 3ph out? I assume your grinder is the same as mine.
Great video, Steve. There's a PDF copy of that Norton toolroom grinding manual at the vintagemachinery.org website. Look under Norton and publication reprints.
That looks pretty good from here Steve, hehe , I’m guessing you could use that machine as a surface grinder too right?👍🙂
Randy Treeman36 Thanks👍 It's not designed to be a surface grinder but you could do small things. Thanks for watching Randy
ALSO CAN YOU LIST THE PRODUCT INFO ON THE MANDREL SET YOU USE/
this looks like a mini od grinder
👍
Я искренне рад за тебя.
Almost didn't reach there with that allen key. ;-)
I assume you made them?
stefantrethan Yeah they are shop made. Several places on this machine require one that long. Some had to reach places on this thing.
In addition to my previous comment on the Norton Toolroom grinding book, I also found this general sharpening book put out by Norton, that appears to do more with hand sharpening tools, and with the different type available stones...oilstones, Arkansas, etc ... I just looked at it briefly, but found it quite interesting. Special thanks to Keith Rucker!
www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1834/16966.pdf
Nice grinding job. Enjoyed. You can download the book free on Vintage Machinery.org.
I looked up what it would take to replace your machine with a new one $27,350.
Darryl May The grinder or the mill?
The universal cutter grinder.
Great video Steve! .... looks like you're getting the hang of it! FWIW .... if you don't want to get the pages dirty in your new book, and for interested viewers, you can find the Norton book on Keith's Vintage Machinery site here
www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1834/6637.pdf
One question....I have always seen and heard, that when using a tooth rest fixture, that the grinding wheel should rotate the direction of pulling the cutter down into the rest , opposite to the way you were grinding, and needing to hold the cutter. I know that you have done more research than I have ever done .....can you elaborate? EDIT: I guess I should have looked in the book! ....less chance of raising a burr on the tooth, and less likely to burn the way you were doing it! ....good stuff!
Nice work. Will it sharpen a end mill?
Well i guess i should have watched the hole video before asking the question...
What is the Name, Author and Publisher of the book that Adam sent you?
6NBERLS I tell it at the end of the video.
excelente¡¡¡¡
Steve,Could I get the name of the book that you have? I have been looking for the same info and would love to find a book on it. Thanks,Nate
I give the name of the book at the end of the video. Norton, A Book On Toolroom Grinding.
Do you want another Ko lee tool cutter grinder? I have a large one for you, it's free if you want it?
Build Something Cool Where are you located? I am interested for sure👍
Would you mind sharing the title of the book?
Piotr Sarnacki I did. It's at the end of the video
Oooops, I just became that „commenting without watching the whole video” youtube guy, sorry! Honestly, I thought that I watched to the end but I guess I got interrupted and forgot. Thanks for the reply and thanks for the video, it’s great!
Piotr Sarnacki LoL, not a problem . I appreciate you watching