i dont see a different God in the OT or NT. God is so merciful yet if we break his main commandments and not repent, he has every right to be pissed off, if we believe he created us and he s perfect then who are we to judge him. We should stop thinking we're above everything, just like he took nations in a matter of minutes he could do the same to us and he probably will because of the blasphemous ways people are portraying him to be, the wars, the lies. Peace
This is why I became a Red-Letter Christian. After years have having a split mind between the OT and the NT and between Paul and the real world, I simple said that if it is not in Red Letters (recorded of having been said by Jesus) then I just view it as opinion, a fable or right out false. No OT, no Book of Revelation, the epistles as opinion of someone. So no burning witches, no keeping women silent in church and no homophobia. No church tradition, no original sin, no Mariology etc.
@aerycksmusic It didn't help me much: he failed to explain why the God who created the entire universe demanded such arbitrary tokens of worship, like animal sacrifices and structures made of gold, to satisfy his desire to be worship. Why does a perfect God require worship, and punish those who do not follow his demands to a T? There stories of this intolerance are there to read in the Pentateuch, and they speak for themselves.
"One thing to consider contextually is that a majority of the OT was written to apply to Israel as a national - not individual - level, and applied to the infant nation as it was developing" Again.. how does this point to anything other than man made laws created to control a nation? Wouldn't god create universal laws for all of mankind? What's so special about Israel that god needs to help enforce it's laws? These quotes are from a "responding to skeptics" christian site.. hardly convincing.
God gave Moses the Law because man preferred a religion as a posed to a relationship with the Father. The Law has no power to save but rather reveal the wickedness in man's heart and thus provoke man into a relationship brought about by realizing the futility of following the Law (religion). Jesus Christ nullified the punishment required by the the Law with mercy and ultimately reconciled mankind back to the Father by His sacrifice on the Cross.
I'm confused.. The Bible says that God is always the same and will never change and that He doesn't change his mind?? In the old and new testament there are so many changes.. how do we know the new testament is true? In the old testament God warned us that the Bible will be changed by men one day.. and that there will be people giving us false information. when you are describing God in the old and new testament it sounds like two different Gods..
I understand that it may seem confusing at first glance, but upon further examination it really does make sense. You're right that God doesn't change. He is perfect in every way imaginable. He has always been, is, and will always be; all-knowing, all-powerful, loving, just, wise and merciful. This is His very nature. It is in His character to BE these things. One needs to keep in mind that when they talk about the differences in God's behavior throughout the Old Testament and New Testament this doesn't mean that God changes His mind or, more importantly, His CHARACTER. These different events display how God responds to our actions in His perfect way which is consistent with His character. If you have children, try to recall how you respond to things they do as a correlation. You love them and you show them love, mercy, empathy, and so many other things because that's who you are as a parent. When they do good things we are pleased and tell them so. But when they do bad things we correct them and may even have to punish them. These responses are very different, but it doesn't mean that you have changed. Your response had to be different in order to teach the child. This is by no means a perfect example, but, hopefully, you get my drift. I hope that makes sense. 😁
Q: How can we reconcile the Old Testament God and the New Testament God? A: Apologist acrobatics, strawmanning, and saying 'it's a metaphor' to all the bits of the bible you don't like.
I'm just pointing out the obvious. I think you don't want the Testaments to reconcile, so when he answers the question you just say "oh he danced around it."
@GSOlsen123 How can you possibly equate what that man just said with stoning people? He was talking about the character of GOD, NOT stoning people... Your statement is exactly what he was addressing and obviously, you have completely missed it.
the new covenant is actually not too different from the old covenant. Jer 31:31-34 describe the NT as the law being put on our hearts, and what is part of the 'old' covenant? the law being put into our hearts (deuteronomy 6:6) there is also grace in the old covenant aswell (1 sam 16:7). The issue theologians have, fundamentally speaking, is the relation of Grace to the law - God has always been about faith (see hebrews 11) there is no change in God, and the standard has always been faith, which is why Jesus criticized the pharisees for being too legalistic (Matt 23:23).
If you believe that the other books in the New Testament are not a faithful representation of what Jesus taught, then what makes you think the "red letters" were actually spoken by Jesus? The same author who recorded the red letters in the gospel of John also recorded the red letters in Revelation. "I am the Alpha and the Omega.... But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable ... their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone which is the second death."
creeds evolve with socity. does it supprise they are very diffrent? they are many creeds combined into one. thats why you see so many stories of jesus that was the stories of 1000's of gods before him.
One of the problems in Christianity is that people feel the need to reconcile the God of the OT with the God of the new. They cannot accept that it can not be done because the God of the OT is the invention of writers of the OT. To reconcile these two you have to reconcile stoning with forgiveness, burning witches with loving and killing abusive children with turning the other cheek. Just do not try it. THe God of the OT was the Jewish version of the local gods. Christianity starts with Jesus.
But again I ask, what makes you sure that those were "truly spoken by Jesus"? If you base your religious beliefs on your own personal feelings, arbitrarily rejecting this or that in scripture, despite what 2000 years of scholarship has discovered or determined, you're just making stuff up.
exactly.There are tons of verses that say God DOES NOT CHANGE..that He is the same today yesterday tomorrow and on..yet when I really read and study I see quite a different picture..
Actually I'm not a believer and I think all religions are absolutely ridiculous, but I'm at this video for the specific purpose of trying to wrap my mind around the old vs new testament concept and educate myself. I think it's insane that a timeless god caters to cultures and times, so I'm investigating. So.. here's proof that your ignorant, broad sweeping generalization of an entire group of people is completely wrong. I plan to read the entire bible front to back, just because I'm curious.
Jesus often used the OT to show the Jews what they ,under the old law, were suppose to be doing. Sometimes he uses it to point out that they are violating their law. When Jesus quotes the OT in a disagreement someone arguing with him he is not recommending to me as law. Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses. He gave us a new law. The OT was very much a punishment to Israel. Leave the OT to the people it was given to. We have enough problems dealing with we have done to the NT. RED LETTERS
The problem you have is that if you only accept Jesus' words, then in doing so, you are accepting Jesus' opinion. And it is clear from the 'red letters' that Jesus believed the O.T. to be the word of God. Was Jesus right to accept the O.T? If he was, then why don't you accept it?
sarcasm? if so it is because you are coming in from an ignorant point of view. in the bible when they say the fear of god they mean respect reverence or love.
right on you tell it like it is man!! Jesus didn't say anything about hell fire, torture, eternal torment. That is a bunch of poppycock. The original Gnostic gospels disagree with this latest insertions, and reinterpretations that were done under the guidance of the corrupt Catholic church. The only truth left in it is where Jesus preaches love thy neibhbour, turn the other cheek. God is love, not jealousy, vengeance, wrath like what we see in the horrific O/T.
People who say that the God of the Old Testament is an ugly God, simply have not read the OT. I am afraid it is that simple; Jonah 4: 4 But to Jonah this seemed very wrong, and he became angry. 2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, Lord, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live.” 4 But the Lord replied, “Is it right for you to be angry?” 5 Jonah had gone out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city. 10 But the Lord said, “You have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. 11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left-and also many animals?” God is so good that he is even concerned about animals.
with the same message but they still found a way to piss him off and break all the commandments, everytime since Moses a prophete dies they go back to their bad habits and when he sent them Jesus as their messiah they still fuck up and try to nail him to the cross. Still God was patient with them and forgave them everytime by sending prophete after prophete to put them on the straight path.
Why all the talk of the cross? A few hours of pain and misery... what is that compared with the weeks and months of agony suffered by the average cancer patient? How is one man's crucifiction anything compared to the starvation of populations, the genocide the pestilence? So the creator of the universe takes on human form and hangs on a cross for a few hours... that would hardly make the evening news compared with what many suffer.
Hi CMoesta, Sorry but I think that Revelation is not inspired nor written by John, if John was written by John. The beast was Nero and the rest is a rant about Rome. There are some good videos on why Rev. is not Christian. Take a look at them. I also know that every word in red is truly spoken by Jesus, but they although not without error thy are enough. Two thousand years of human thought have not added anything to the original. Peace,
They can be reconciled. Both show wrath towards sinners but mercy to those who repent. He shows how he can declare sinners right and still be just in the Cross..promised in the Old, performed in the new. They are the same. Progressive revelation is real though. We know more about God when you get to Malachi then when we read Exodus. And then in the incarnation he is revealed even more. Both in Love and Wrath.
I find that people often answer this question by simply pointing to some judgment passages in the new testament, but I find that wholly unsatisfying. The issue is not that a loving God can't have judgment. The issue is that in the NT we see pictures of God like the father of the prodigal son, who rejoices when the son comes home and doesn't show the slightest trace of anger or resentment. Then the OT gives us a picture of a God who was burning with anger and ready to destroy Israel after the golden calf incident until Moses intercedes. It just seems like a totally different demeanor.
I also spent the first half of my life as a baptist going to church every Sunday and the more I learned about my faith the more contradictory, irrational, unfair, and just plain silly it became. So, I'm not an atheist due to a lack of understanding of Christianity, rather because the more you learn about it the more insane it becomes. I remain open minded though, and would happily change my views if I find a reasonable reason to. That's intellectual honesty.
So God punishes the rest of humanity because the first humans were talked into eating from a tree God said they couldn't. Then to make up for the actions of Adam and Eve, he sacrifices himself to himself to appease himself. And provides no evidence of this to latter generations. You're just supposed to take the Bible's word for it. I wish I had more space to really get into the demented nature of all this. But to a sane mind, it's self explanatory.
Huh? This is foolish! All Scripture is inspired of God not just what is printed in red ink! You're not a Christian if you want to cut and paste God's Word. And people are agreeing with you? Wow. When Christ says, "it is written" he's quoting from the OT! If the Jews knew the OT what do you think the body of Christ should know?
"he is not recommending to me as law" What does this mean? Can you murder? Steal? No. He did not give us a new law. The law was given to Israel and now we as believers are Spiritual Israel. You are in error. Paul is constantly referencing the OT to the Corinthians. Only the rituals have been blotted out (Col. 2:14) You must study more than make senseless statements. Jesus is the God of the OT. Without the OT we have no Bible.
'Nobody in his right mind can claim the cruel, bloodthirsty stone age mass murdering wargod yehovah is the same god as jesus meek and mild. It just is not possible.
I think as an objective viewpoint you could see God as directly punishing those, then finding perhaps he should let them punish themselves. Like a father who tells his son not to pull the cats tail. The father knows the cat will bite or scratch. But you cannot save them, sometimes. You have to let them find out for themselves. Then they will know. That's my interpretation of it anyway.
Dear BMJone1, Jesus gave the law of love: God with all your heart and you neighbor as your self; Go the extra Mile; do unto others etc, etc. The old law says I should kill someone working on the Sabbath, force my daughter to marry her rapist; eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth. Please do not get your law from the OT. Sorry but Jesus never said, “Believe everything Paul says.” Paul spoke about his time not mine. Paul was speaking to people who were still half Jewish. The truth makes us free
@SuperBspb At some point you have to reject something and then hold on to what is left. I just assume that the god of the OT is a fictional character made up by some fruitcakes who needed to justify their own way of doing things. One day I realized that I was a Red-Letter Christian. If Jesus did not say it then it is non-binding, opinion or false. This includes Paul and Revelation.
@humanistheart If you assume that the Old Testament is an inspired and truthful book then you would have a problem. But the OT was written by people many years later by men who wanted to make sure that their God was as tough and mean as the other local ones and that what they were doing was right. I do not accept the representation of Yahweh in the OT. If Jesus is Yehweh, and I believe that, then the OT god is not in anyway real. Jesus may quote the OT to the Jews but not to me.
@humanistheart Jesus quotes the OT to the Jews to show that they do not follow what they preached. But let's be serious, people eventually have to come up with, not what they believe but what they can live with. I can not reconcile the OT & NT so I just take the nicer of the two. I don't think that God cares what religion you are in or if you accept the OT, Revelation etc. How much you Love is all there is. So I am a hopeful Christian, into ZEN, the TAO and half agnostic. Have a good path.
if i may throw in my muslim view without getting anti muslims remarks. God is a jealous God and the one thing he wouldnt allow at all first and foremost is to associate other Gods with him and second to break the main commandments which is forgivable if one repents. He seems cruel to you guys in the old testament because he kept forgiving and sending all these prophetes to the Jews
@bernlin2000 man stop following and start listening ...the REAL GOD is in everything......the christian God is the Jewish God painted over and the Jewish God is created by the Jews in the book they wrote and authored the TORAH....you been sold bad goods
actually what Jesus described was not Hell, but Gehenna the Valley of Hinnnom, a burning garbage dump. He was warning of the coming Roman destruction of Jerusalem in Matthew 24.
@rosswoof ACtually, I am beyond that right now. I was being a bit sarcastic. Its all myth that wasn't meant to be interpreted literally. Its mythic stories through the use of metaphors, allegories, parables. Its not different than the Greek mythologies. The origin of much of the stories is from Egypt/sumeria, and Greece. If you understand that its a story of the journey of the soul and the divine spark within then your approaching truth.
How can we reconcile the old testament God and new testament God? The only way you can is when your theology requires you to even though you know something is wrong.. Funny that he admits hell really only shows up when Jesus does.. The truth is eternal hell was never taught in the od testament it was quite the opposite. The wicked "perish" they are "no more" It speaks of only inheriting eternal life through salvation .But twisted theology twists this up to and takes "the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eyernal life"" and makes it somehow mean "the wages of sin is to burn for ETERNITY cus if you dont spend eternity in heaven then your soul still lives forever in eternal hell... if pastors were honest they'd admit that Paul in all of his 13 epistles NEVER taught of eternal hellfire either.. If you wanna stump your pastor then ask them why this is..ask them to show you where in the bible it teaches being born with an immortal soul..they cant...ask them if Paul was such an important apostle unto the gentiles and he is held in such high regard that more of his words are quoted than Jesus' own words, then why did Paul NEVER speak of this eternal inferno..This is when they break out the tapdance moves and attempt to "reconcile" this also..last resort they will attrack your character as a sinner worthy of eternal torment... the problems LIE in the translations really...hell was never eternal torment until they translated it that way in a few key verses from Jesus... these people make me sick..
Is that love to see your only begotten son or messiah beat to hell and butchered on the cross. No doubt Dr.Carson has a good handle on scripture but for any decent learned individual or people to believe that religion from 2000 plus years ago has any relevance in modern society( outside of mythology and literary quality) whatsoever needs an historical education fast. Whatever religion says you me or anyone else is not born a sinner and no amount of bloodshed from an animal or a man on a large wooden cross is necessary for life here or wherever! To say otherwise is just bunk!
The God of the new testament speaks more of Hell and in more vulgar terms (see revelation) and he isn't all loving. He only loves those who came to faith in him and in the NT more specifically his those who come to his son. Christ came to save the world, but in revelation he will come to judge it. The NT God (Christ) says more will be in hell than heaven (Matt 7) There is more known about God in the NT due to the full revelation. But they are the same in Character.
3BALL4 he is all loving that's his nature. But he isn't all approving and he's also perfectly just which means he must carry out justice. ""For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." -John 3:16 www.bible.com/59/jhn.3.16.esv God has shown his love for everyone by sending his son to save the wold but he will show his justice when his son comes back to judge the world
All I hear is circus music 🎶. This poor guy is trying his best to reconcile old and new, neither of which are rational to believe in. His main point is that the intersection for both coming together is at the cross, the most absurd and grotesque scene in the whole of scripture. I think he is relying on his followers, the majority of Christians, to not read the Bible for themselves, or if they do, to have his interpretation as their goggles, and not to read it with a questioning mentality that they approach others faiths with. The god of both Testaments are brutal slave masters. Even Paul himself testified to the slavery the Christian is in, either sin or righteousness, you are a slave. How utterly dreadful and disgusting.
Something tells me that's probably not true, at least not all the time. It's OK to admit you doubt Islam or Muhammad's prophet-hood at times, because it certainly is very easy to do so.
DeeB Nah hi, when you understand the teachings it is easy tbh nothing complex, sure islam has a deep history and that and certain things are for that time and there is a big debate about dharia law, but when you understand them it is really not as big people make it out to be. would you disagree? kind reagrds
Hey, thanks for your response. I think Islam promotes an outmoded worldview and there is no substantial evidence to believe the Quran is from God. Islamic apologetics is similar to any other sort of religious apologetics I have seen. I remain unconvinced. I'm not trying to be offensive or disrespectful, but that is how I see it.
DeeB Nah hey, very good questions you asked. well islam has something called a mufti, the job of the mufti is someone goes to them and they have to give their verdict on what they rule on a certain scenario that wasnt there at the time of the prophet (s a.w) so islam has tackled this issue of it being outdated. does that answer that? in terms of the quran is something that muslims hold dear to their heart. the quran proven through science has not been chnaged in 1400, the quran was brought down through revelations by a non worded man who cannot write and he doesbt have high educational background arab country being very backwards back than, the quran is a word if god through its sciebtific claims, no contradictions, and it agreeing with all the past teachings of prophets and messengers. does that sort of make sense or are you still not sure if it is word of god? in terms of other aspect that you may feel is outdated you would have to elaborate because it is the same teachigs as all the other prophets? hope to hear back from you. kind regards
Thanks for your response! I have spoken with many Muslims on this topic before and I have heard the same assertions you are making for the veracity of the Quran -- however, I have never seen any compelling evidence to prove those assertions. I have listened to Muslim apologists and many Muslims, and I have concluded that you believe the Quran is from God in the same manner that Mormon's believe the book of Mormon is from God. Muslims believe that Muhammad was a prophet of God in the same manner that Mormon's believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, etc. Thanks again for your response and I wish you all the best on your journey. There are many videos here on UA-cam by ex-Muslims that will challenge your assertions and assumptions, and there is an interesting book you might want to read one day: www.amazon.com/Atheist-Muslim-Journey-Religion-Reason/dp/1250094445/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494271259&sr=8-1&keywords=the+atheist+muslim All the best, goodbye.
Marcionite view of God contrasts God in both testaments as if we were dealing with two different Gods.
i dont see a different God in the OT or NT. God is so merciful yet if we break his main commandments and not repent, he has every right to be pissed off, if we believe he created us and he s perfect then who are we to judge him. We should stop thinking we're above everything, just like he took nations in a matter of minutes he could do the same to us and he probably will because of the blasphemous ways people are portraying him to be, the wars, the lies. Peace
This is why I became a Red-Letter Christian. After years have having a split mind between the OT and the NT and between Paul and the real world, I simple said that if it is not in Red Letters (recorded of having been said by Jesus) then I just view it as opinion, a fable or right out false. No OT, no Book of Revelation, the epistles as opinion of someone. So no burning witches, no keeping women silent in church and no homophobia. No church tradition, no original sin, no Mariology etc.
It’s a nice idea but Jesus constantly refers to and quotes the Old Testament attesting to its authenticity.
jesus alone without the other books of the NT and the whole OT makes no sense. You are creating your one idol to worship. Repent, please.
@aerycksmusic It didn't help me much: he failed to explain why the God who created the entire universe demanded such arbitrary tokens of worship, like animal sacrifices and structures made of gold, to satisfy his desire to be worship. Why does a perfect God require worship, and punish those who do not follow his demands to a T? There stories of this intolerance are there to read in the Pentateuch, and they speak for themselves.
"One thing to consider contextually is that a majority of the OT was written to apply to Israel as a national - not individual - level, and applied to the infant nation as it was developing" Again.. how does this point to anything other than man made laws created to control a nation? Wouldn't god create universal laws for all of mankind? What's so special about Israel that god needs to help enforce it's laws? These quotes are from a "responding to skeptics" christian site.. hardly convincing.
Thanks so much for posting this. I needed to hear it
God gave Moses the Law because man preferred a religion as a posed to a relationship with the Father.
The Law has no power to save but rather reveal the wickedness in man's heart and thus provoke man into a relationship brought about by realizing the futility of following the Law (religion).
Jesus Christ nullified the punishment required by the the Law with mercy and ultimately reconciled mankind back to the Father by His sacrifice on the Cross.
Many people have a very short-sighted view of God, especially as he is revealed in the Old Testament.
I'm confused.. The Bible says that God is always the same and will never change and that He doesn't change his mind?? In the old and new testament there are so many changes.. how do we know the new testament is true? In the old testament God warned us that the Bible will be changed by men one day.. and that there will be people giving us false information. when you are describing God in the old and new testament it sounds like two different Gods..
I understand that it may seem confusing at first glance, but upon further examination it really does make sense.
You're right that God doesn't change. He is perfect in every way imaginable. He has always been, is, and will always be; all-knowing, all-powerful, loving, just, wise and merciful. This is His very nature. It is in His character to BE these things.
One needs to keep in mind that when they talk about the differences in God's behavior throughout the Old Testament and New Testament this doesn't mean that God changes His mind or, more importantly, His CHARACTER. These different events display how God responds to our actions in His perfect way which is consistent with His character.
If you have children, try to recall how you respond to things they do as a correlation. You love them and you show them love, mercy, empathy, and so many other things because that's who you are as a parent. When they do good things we are pleased and tell them so. But when they do bad things we correct them and may even have to punish them. These responses are very different, but it doesn't mean that you have changed. Your response had to be different in order to teach the child.
This is by no means a perfect example, but, hopefully, you get my drift.
I hope that makes sense. 😁
Cherease is right. And yes jeff god does change his mind. One cant explain away the points made by cherease!
Q: How can we reconcile the Old Testament God and the New Testament God?
A: Apologist acrobatics, strawmanning, and saying 'it's a metaphor' to all the bits of the bible you don't like.
I'm just pointing out the obvious. I think you don't want the Testaments to reconcile, so when he answers the question you just say "oh he danced around it."
@GSOlsen123 How can you possibly equate what that man just said with stoning people? He was talking about the character of GOD, NOT stoning people... Your statement is exactly what he was addressing and obviously, you have completely missed it.
the new covenant is actually not too different from the old covenant. Jer 31:31-34 describe the NT as the law being put on our hearts, and what is part of the 'old' covenant? the law being put into our hearts (deuteronomy 6:6) there is also grace in the old covenant aswell (1 sam 16:7). The issue theologians have, fundamentally speaking, is the relation of Grace to the law - God has always been about faith (see hebrews 11) there is no change in God, and the standard has always been faith, which is why Jesus criticized the pharisees for being too legalistic (Matt 23:23).
If you believe that the other books in the New Testament are not a faithful representation of what Jesus taught, then what makes you think the "red letters" were actually spoken by Jesus? The same author who recorded the red letters in the gospel of John also recorded the red letters in Revelation. "I am the Alpha and the Omega.... But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable ... their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone which is the second death."
creeds evolve with socity. does it supprise they are very diffrent? they are many creeds combined into one. thats why you see so many stories of jesus that was the stories of 1000's of gods before him.
One of the problems in Christianity is that people feel the need to reconcile the God of the OT with the God of the new. They cannot accept that it can not be done because the God of the OT is the invention of writers of the OT. To reconcile these two you have to reconcile stoning with forgiveness, burning witches with loving and killing abusive children with turning the other cheek. Just do not try it. THe God of the OT was the Jewish version of the local gods. Christianity starts with Jesus.
But again I ask, what makes you sure that those were "truly spoken by Jesus"? If you base your religious beliefs on your own personal feelings, arbitrarily rejecting this or that in scripture, despite what 2000 years of scholarship has discovered or determined, you're just making stuff up.
Most people don't have a clue because they have never actually read the Bible and if they have, they have not understood it.
Most of the issues that one has with contradictions in the bible can only be explained by those with advanced degrees...
And how can there be a "old testament God" and a "new testament God" ?? It doesn't make sense. There is only one God and He is forever the same God..
exactly.There are tons of verses that say God DOES NOT CHANGE..that He is the same today yesterday tomorrow and on..yet when I really read and study I see quite a different picture..
Sorry God does not allow you to see.
Check your heart, mind and soul.
He answered it clearly. I think you just don't understand the answer.
Actually I'm not a believer and I think all religions are absolutely ridiculous, but I'm at this video for the specific purpose of trying to wrap my mind around the old vs new testament concept and educate myself. I think it's insane that a timeless god caters to cultures and times, so I'm investigating. So.. here's proof that your ignorant, broad sweeping generalization of an entire group of people is completely wrong. I plan to read the entire bible front to back, just because I'm curious.
Jesus often used the OT to show the Jews what they ,under the old law, were suppose to be doing. Sometimes he uses it to point out that they are violating their law. When Jesus quotes the OT in a disagreement someone arguing with him he is not recommending to me as law.
Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses. He gave us a new law. The OT was very much a punishment to Israel. Leave the OT to the people it was given to. We have enough problems dealing with we have done to the NT.
RED LETTERS
God: "i love you my child, but you don't believe in me, so rot in hell for all time". wow god really does love us.
The problem you have is that if you only accept Jesus' words, then in doing so, you are accepting Jesus' opinion. And it is clear from the 'red letters' that Jesus believed the O.T. to be the word of God.
Was Jesus right to accept the O.T? If he was, then why don't you accept it?
Well put!
This was very helpful. Thank you!
The God of atrocities vs. the God of love.
God pities his people if they fear him? What a father figure!
sarcasm? if so it is because you are coming in from an ignorant point of view. in the bible when they say the fear of god they mean respect reverence or love.
I'm curious. If hell exists, why would you want to go there? o.o
Oh that's it. Hmmm, what wisdom you have.
right on you tell it like it is man!! Jesus didn't say anything about hell fire, torture, eternal torment. That is a bunch of poppycock. The original Gnostic gospels disagree with this latest insertions, and reinterpretations that were done under the guidance of the corrupt Catholic church. The only truth left in it is where Jesus preaches love thy neibhbour, turn the other cheek. God is love, not jealousy, vengeance, wrath like what we see in the horrific O/T.
It would have been nice to get an answer to the question rather than dancing around it.
People who say that the God of the Old Testament is an ugly God, simply have not read the OT. I am afraid it is that simple;
Jonah 4:
4 But to Jonah this seemed very wrong, and he became angry. 2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, Lord, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live.”
4 But the Lord replied, “Is it right for you to be angry?”
5 Jonah had gone out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city.
10 But the Lord said, “You have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. 11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left-and also many animals?”
God is so good that he is even concerned about animals.
with the same message but they still found a way to piss him off and break all the commandments, everytime since Moses a prophete dies they go back to their bad habits and when he sent them Jesus as their messiah they still fuck up and try to nail him to the cross. Still God was patient with them and forgave them everytime by sending prophete after prophete to put them on the straight path.
Why all the talk of the cross? A few hours of pain and misery... what is that compared with the weeks and months of agony suffered by the average cancer patient? How is one man's crucifiction anything compared to the starvation of populations, the genocide the pestilence? So the creator of the universe takes on human form and hangs on a cross for a few hours... that would hardly make the evening news compared with what many suffer.
Hi CMoesta,
Sorry but I think that Revelation is not inspired nor written by John, if John was written by John. The beast was Nero and the rest is a rant about Rome. There are some good videos on why Rev. is not Christian. Take a look at them. I also know that every word in red is truly spoken by Jesus, but they although not without error thy are enough. Two thousand years of human thought have not added anything to the original.
Peace,
They can be reconciled. Both show wrath towards sinners but mercy to those who repent. He shows how he can declare sinners right and still be just in the Cross..promised in the Old, performed in the new. They are the same. Progressive revelation is real though. We know more about God when you get to Malachi then when we read Exodus. And then in the incarnation he is revealed even more. Both in Love and Wrath.
I find that people often answer this question by simply pointing to some judgment passages in the new testament, but I find that wholly unsatisfying. The issue is not that a loving God can't have judgment. The issue is that in the NT we see pictures of God like the father of the prodigal son, who rejoices when the son comes home and doesn't show the slightest trace of anger or resentment. Then the OT gives us a picture of a God who was burning with anger and ready to destroy Israel after the golden calf incident until Moses intercedes. It just seems like a totally different demeanor.
The Old and New do not belong together...they are not the same........even the Jews will tell you that......its all contrived.......
I also spent the first half of my life as a baptist going to church every Sunday and the more I learned about my faith the more contradictory, irrational, unfair, and just plain silly it became. So, I'm not an atheist due to a lack of understanding of Christianity, rather because the more you learn about it the more insane it becomes. I remain open minded though, and would happily change my views if I find a reasonable reason to. That's intellectual honesty.
So God punishes the rest of humanity because the first humans were talked into eating from a tree God said they couldn't. Then to make up for the actions of Adam and Eve, he sacrifices himself to himself to appease himself. And provides no evidence of this to latter generations. You're just supposed to take the Bible's word for it. I wish I had more space to really get into the demented nature of all this. But to a sane mind, it's self explanatory.
Huh? This is foolish! All Scripture is inspired of God not just what is printed in red ink! You're not a Christian if you want to cut and paste God's Word. And people are agreeing with you? Wow. When Christ says, "it is written" he's quoting from the OT! If the Jews knew the OT what do you think the body of Christ should know?
. . . and if you want to see Eric Clapton; go to the crossroads.
"he is not recommending to me as law" What does this mean? Can you murder? Steal? No. He did not give us a new law. The law was given to Israel and now we as believers are Spiritual Israel. You are in error. Paul is constantly referencing the OT to the Corinthians. Only the rituals have been blotted out (Col. 2:14) You must study more than make senseless statements. Jesus is the God of the OT. Without the OT we have no Bible.
'Nobody in his right mind can claim the cruel, bloodthirsty stone age mass murdering wargod yehovah is the same god as jesus meek and mild. It just is not possible.
I think as an objective viewpoint you could see God as directly punishing those, then finding perhaps he should let them punish themselves. Like a father who tells his son not to pull the cats tail. The father knows the cat will bite or scratch. But you cannot save them, sometimes. You have to let them find out for themselves. Then they will know. That's my interpretation of it anyway.
Dear BMJone1, Jesus gave the law of love: God with all your heart and you neighbor as your self; Go the extra Mile; do unto others etc, etc. The old law says I should kill someone working on the Sabbath, force my daughter to marry her rapist; eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth. Please do not get your law from the OT. Sorry but Jesus never said, “Believe everything Paul says.” Paul spoke about his time not mine. Paul was speaking to people who were still half Jewish. The truth makes us free
@SuperBspb At some point you have to reject something and then hold on to what is left. I just assume that the god of the OT is a fictional character made up by some fruitcakes who needed to justify their own way of doing things. One day I realized that I was a Red-Letter Christian. If Jesus did not say it then it is non-binding, opinion or false.
This includes Paul and Revelation.
@humanistheart If you assume that the Old Testament is an inspired and truthful book then you would have a problem. But the OT was written by people many years later by men who wanted to make sure that their God was as tough and mean as the other local ones and that what they were doing was right. I do not accept the representation of Yahweh in the OT. If Jesus is Yehweh, and I believe that, then the OT god is not in anyway real. Jesus may quote the OT to the Jews but not to me.
@humanistheart Jesus quotes the OT to the Jews to show that they do not follow what they preached. But let's be serious, people eventually have to come up with, not what they believe but what they can live with. I can not reconcile the OT & NT so I just take the nicer of the two. I don't think that God cares what religion you are in or if you accept the OT, Revelation etc. How much you Love is all there is. So I am a hopeful Christian, into ZEN, the TAO and half agnostic. Have a good path.
if i may throw in my muslim view without getting anti muslims remarks. God is a jealous God and the one thing he wouldnt allow at all first and foremost is to associate other Gods with him and second to break the main commandments which is forgivable if one repents. He seems cruel to you guys in the old testament because he kept forgiving and sending all these prophetes to the Jews
From the storm gods of the days of the hebrew writings,to the age of Greek reason,that's all it is.
@bernlin2000 man stop following and start listening ...the REAL GOD is in everything......the christian God is the Jewish God painted over and the Jewish God is created by the Jews in the book they wrote and authored the TORAH....you been sold bad goods
actually what Jesus described was not Hell, but Gehenna the Valley of Hinnnom, a burning garbage dump. He was warning of the coming Roman destruction of Jerusalem in Matthew 24.
I do not believe in a deity, but if Christians are right, I'll be glad I have gone to Hell.
@rosswoof ACtually, I am beyond that right now. I was being a bit sarcastic. Its all myth that wasn't meant to be interpreted literally. Its mythic stories through the use of metaphors, allegories, parables. Its not different than the Greek mythologies. The origin of much of the stories is from Egypt/sumeria, and Greece. If you understand that its a story of the journey of the soul and the divine spark within then your approaching truth.
How can we reconcile the old testament God and new testament God?
The only way you can is when your theology requires you to even though you know something is wrong..
Funny that he admits hell really only shows up when Jesus does..
The truth is eternal hell was never taught in the od testament it was quite the opposite. The wicked "perish" they are "no more"
It speaks of only inheriting eternal life through salvation .But twisted theology twists this up to and takes "the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eyernal life"" and makes it somehow mean "the wages of sin is to burn for ETERNITY cus if you dont spend eternity in heaven then your soul still lives forever in eternal hell...
if pastors were honest they'd admit that Paul in all of his 13 epistles NEVER taught of eternal hellfire either..
If you wanna stump your pastor then ask them why this is..ask them to show you where in the bible it teaches being born with an immortal soul..they cant...ask them if Paul was such an important apostle unto the gentiles and he is held in such high regard that more of his words are quoted than Jesus' own words, then why did Paul NEVER speak of this eternal inferno..This is when they break out the tapdance moves and attempt to "reconcile" this also..last resort they will attrack your character as a sinner worthy of eternal torment...
the problems LIE in the translations really...hell was never eternal torment until they translated it that way in a few key verses from Jesus...
these people make me sick..
Correct. NT doesn't teach eternal conscious burning hell either. It is a perishing forever, called the second death.
Is that love to see your only begotten son or messiah beat to hell and butchered on the cross. No doubt Dr.Carson has a good handle on scripture but for any decent learned individual or people to believe that religion from 2000 plus years ago has any relevance in modern society( outside of mythology and literary quality) whatsoever needs an historical education fast. Whatever religion says you me or anyone else is not born a sinner and no amount of bloodshed from an animal or a man on a large wooden cross is necessary for life here or wherever! To say otherwise is just bunk!
GodownEd1 what? Where did you read that?
Here's an easier explanation: "you can't"
Ot god is a thief jc said so j 10 10 reject him
Ridiculous irrational and illogical apologetics!
prove it that there is a god?
The God of the new testament speaks more of Hell and in more vulgar terms (see revelation) and he isn't all loving. He only loves those who came to faith in him and in the NT more specifically his those who come to his son. Christ came to save the world, but in revelation he will come to judge it. The NT God (Christ) says more will be in hell than heaven (Matt 7) There is more known about God in the NT due to the full revelation. But they are the same in Character.
3BALL4 he is all loving that's his nature. But he isn't all approving and he's also perfectly just which means he must carry out justice. ""For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
-John 3:16
www.bible.com/59/jhn.3.16.esv
God has shown his love for everyone by sending his son to save the wold but he will show his justice when his son comes back to judge the world
All I hear is circus music 🎶. This poor guy is trying his best to reconcile old and new, neither of which are rational to believe in. His main point is that the intersection for both coming together is at the cross, the most absurd and grotesque scene in the whole of scripture. I think he is relying on his followers, the majority of Christians, to not read the Bible for themselves, or if they do, to have his interpretation as their goggles, and not to read it with a questioning mentality that they approach others faiths with. The god of both Testaments are brutal slave masters. Even Paul himself testified to the slavery the Christian is in, either sin or righteousness, you are a slave. How utterly dreadful and disgusting.
damn i am happy that i am muslim alhamdulila!
Something tells me that's probably not true, at least not all the time. It's OK to admit you doubt Islam or Muhammad's prophet-hood at times, because it certainly is very easy to do so.
DeeB Nah hi, when you understand the teachings it is easy tbh nothing complex, sure islam has a deep history and that and certain things are for that time and there is a big debate about dharia law, but when you understand them it is really not as big people make it out to be. would you disagree? kind reagrds
Hey, thanks for your response. I think Islam promotes an outmoded worldview and there is no substantial evidence to believe the Quran is from God. Islamic apologetics is similar to any other sort of religious apologetics I have seen. I remain unconvinced. I'm not trying to be offensive or disrespectful, but that is how I see it.
DeeB Nah hey, very good questions you asked.
well islam has something called a mufti, the job of the mufti is someone goes to them and they have to give their verdict on what they rule on a certain scenario that wasnt there at the time of the prophet (s a.w) so islam has tackled this issue of it being outdated. does that answer that?
in terms of the quran is something that muslims hold dear to their heart. the quran proven through science has not been chnaged in 1400, the quran was brought down through revelations by a non worded man who cannot write and he doesbt have high educational background arab country being very backwards back than, the quran is a word if god through its sciebtific claims, no contradictions, and it agreeing with all the past teachings of prophets and messengers. does that sort of make sense or are you still not sure if it is word of god?
in terms of other aspect that you may feel is outdated you would have to elaborate because it is the same teachigs as all the other prophets?
hope to hear back from you. kind regards
Thanks for your response! I have spoken with many Muslims on this topic before and I have heard the same assertions you are making for the veracity of the Quran -- however, I have never seen any compelling evidence to prove those assertions.
I have listened to Muslim apologists and many Muslims, and I have concluded that you believe the Quran is from God in the same manner that Mormon's believe the book of Mormon is from God. Muslims believe that Muhammad was a prophet of God in the same manner that Mormon's believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, etc.
Thanks again for your response and I wish you all the best on your journey. There are many videos here on UA-cam by ex-Muslims that will challenge your assertions and assumptions, and there is an interesting book you might want to read one day: www.amazon.com/Atheist-Muslim-Journey-Religion-Reason/dp/1250094445/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494271259&sr=8-1&keywords=the+atheist+muslim
All the best, goodbye.