The incoherence of the Trinity, II | A reading from Trinity & Incarnation: A Post-Catholic Theology

[@logicalthinker7565]

Why am I getting video recommendations for randos who think they are smarter or have more insight than the theologians from the last 2000 years? I don’t need to listen to your video to know that there is nothing of merit here.

[@drstevennemes]

Thank you for your comment.

[@levilower9524]

Thanks for your video

[@JacobRobin81]

While many will argue with you; I think that this presentation is a wonderful way to explore all of the problems the doctrine of the trinity possesses when followed through to any number of conclusions.

[@drstevennemes]

@@JacobRobin81
Thank you for your comment!

[@dan_m7774]

To understand God, God left a teaching authority in his Church. God is a Trinity is that there is one divine nature, one divine substance. A “substance” or “nature” is what something is. God, as a Trinity, exists in three Persons. A person is “who” someone is. In our experience, one human person each possesses one human nature. A husband and wife, no matter how closely united, are still two separate beings. In God, however, three Persons possess the same divine nature. If you were to ask each Person in the Trinity, “Who are you?” each person would answer something differently: “I am the Father;” “I am the Son;” “I am the Holy Spirit.” If you were to ask each Person, “Who are you?” you would get the same answer from each Person: “I am God.” Not, “I am a God,” as a human would say, “I am a human.” Rather, each divine Person, while not identical to the other divine Persons, is one in being with the other two divine Persons and is fully God.

[@IAmisMaster]

17:30 The strong monarchy Monarchical Trinitarian view is not a mere nominal position. We are indeed saying the being/entity/subject known properly as "God" just is the Father. We do not believe in a tri-personal God, as if one subject is also three. That's where you err in your analysis.

[@IAmisMaster]

There is also no "gotcha" in saying that monarchical trinitarianism involves "three Gods" in one sense of the term. That is readily admitted by Joshua Sijuwade, early Christians like Justin Martyr, Origen saying Jesus is a "Second God" or "another God." We're just not saying there are two first causes/arches, since that is the essence of the polytheistic error. Not that you have other subordinate, divine persons that are "God" in a totally different sense.
And lastly, your retort "three things with NOTHING in common" is utterly ridiculous. In your mind, unless the members of the Trinity are literally identical twins, they have nothing in common. You presume egalitarianism as the only acceptable answer to the question of the Trinity, thereby removing the first 300 years of Trinitarian belief from the table of options.

[@clemonsx90]

In the Eastern Orthodox understanding, which relies on the essence energy distinction, the three persons are united in essence (as a single communion), but they differ in energy (eternal activity). No persons, God or otherwise, have individual essences. Just to give a material concrete example, you are a person, but you're made out of particles, which are a substance not unique to your individual person or body, but which extend throughout the universe as quantum fields. The stuff that you're made of supports your brain, which supports your mind and personhood, but your mind is not your brain nor the particles. I say this just to make it clear that I am speaking with concrete significance and not just using words that no one can really understand.
Once you understand that Christian ontology is communal, it all starts to make sense. Adam could corrupt the entirety of human being, because we exist through our communion with each other and God. By participating in a communion that has separated itself from God, we are not participating in our source of being. Existence in Adam versus Christ isn't about Adam passing down a corrupted essence via genetics, it's about energetic participation in a community of persons. When the Holy Spirit acts in you, you're receiving divine energy, and participating in the divine life of God, which is Love of God and neighbor. This is also why the PERSON of Christ could be supported by both the divine essence and a human essence - personhood isn't contingent on a particular essence. We exist in Christ through participation in his perfect communion with the father. This is why it is essential to be in communion with the Church. Verily, if you do not eat and drink his blood, there is no life in you.
See John Zizioulas for an Orthodox perspective on these matters.

[@drstevennemes]

@@clemonsx90
Thank you for your comment.
I address a lot of these ideas in part 1 to this video series.

[@aisthpaoitht]

Your mistake is thinking that God is a nature that exists individually and separately in each of the three persons. So you say "there would be three Gods." Wrong. It's a definitional issue.

[@drstevennemes]

I do not “think” anything. I address a number of different ways of understanding the concepts of nature and person, and I try to show that they all lead to trouble.

[@aisthpaoitht]

@@drstevennemes Deconstructing all language leads to trouble. Good luck grounding the truth of any word. Try it out.

[@drstevennemes]

@@aisthpaoitht I’m not sure I understand what you mean.
Either the Trinity can be explained in words or it can’t. If it can’t, then there’s nothing to believe, since we don’t believe anything without words. There’s also no point in requiring faith in creeds, since creeds don’t offer anything but words about what to believe. The creeds do not explain the Trinity, since it can’t be explained in words. But if the Trinity _can_ be explained in words, then please do it!

[@aisthpaoitht]

@@drstevennemes You've run into the problem of the one and the many. It's a paradox. There is no logical answer. And it's the same for any word or concept. You can't use language to accurately state how the one is separate from the many. The Trinity is acknowledged as a mystery that is revealed to us by Scripture.

[@drstevennemes]

@@aisthpaoitht
The Trinity is not in scripture. The fact that it’s incoherent is a point against its being revealed.
There wouldn’t be a problem of coherence if the doctrine of the Trinity prioritized the oneness or the threeness. But as it stands, it tries to assert that God is simultaneously one and three. That’s why it’s incoherent.
The problem of the one and the many is not the same thing as the Trinity.

[@hismajesty6272]

Speak to Trent Horn about this. I’m sure he can clear it up for you.

[@drstevennemes]

Thank you for your comment.

[@transfigured3673]

Great stuff Steven! Keep it up

[@drstevennemes]

@@transfigured3673 Thank you!

[@Mester_Carl]

James 2:14-26
New King James Version
Faith Without Works Is Dead
how do you reconcile that

[@drstevennemes]

Thank you for your comment.
I'm not sure what it has to do with my video.

[@las_espannas]

The Trinity is dogma , dennied the Trinity is HERESY.

[@drstevennemes]

Thank you for your comment.

[@nathanbrannan5228]

Very interested to hear what you have to say, although I can't watch this just yet.
I've found that the Trinity is not so obvious in the Bible even if people make it seem obvious. Jesus claiming the titles of God and bring worshipped without stopping those who did has led me to believe Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit on the other hand is not so clearly God. It's our Helper and is a person, but may not inherently be God as he is not worshipped nor does he claim to be God, and God doesn't claim the Holy Spirit is a part of any God-head.
Those are my thoughts on the matter, but perhaps you have some even better points.

[@drstevennemes]

Thank you for your comment!

[@dan_m7774]

I think it is very telling you must go to Catholic sources to get an official understanding of the Trinity, The nature of God, The incarnation, Apostolic Succession etc.
What is interesting is that that you lack the ability to understand anything can be a reality outside of time and space. When Science itself claims that time and space began to exist.

[@drstevennemes]

Thank you for your comment.

[@jpesmar]

Hahahahahaha

[@drstevennemes]

Thank you for your comment.

[@erichenkel4393]

Incredibly dishonest video & you display a fundamental misunderstanding of the Trinity

[@drstevennemes]

@@erichenkel4393
Thank you for your comment.