IMPORTANT! Startup power was bugged in previous versions of BlueJay up to 20.0 so the recommended min and max startup power for 21.0 or later has changed. See here for the detailed information: github.com/bird-sanctuary/bluejay/wiki/Setup The recommendation for version 21.0 of BlueJay is to gradually increase Min Startup Power (Boost) until your motors reliably start. Then set max startup power 20 points above this.
@@GBUKMilo Yes. They all seem fine at max first, it's the edge cases where it gets tricky. Especially when turtling or something is stuck in your props, your are risking to burn motors/ESCs.
@@stylesuxx Interesting, all looked good however when I really stress the whoop, its seems to go very floatly and won't drop on minimum power. If I recal the gyro (via the VTX) it fixes it.
Hi mr.Chris . i have a question about BLHeli32 . i use 3 Fly Mode rather than acro mode on my 5 inch quad. On that case, i must increase Motor RampUp up to 100% so the motor can rotate on Low Throtle otherwise it will desync. And like you said, it make the motors got more heat . Do i have any option to make the motor rotate on low throttle ? i like to sent you the bench video,if you have discord or instagram.
Much appreciated, Chris. I love to fly these but hate to tinker with settings. Very grateful for folks like you 🙏 looking forward to the motor testing.
i found the happymodel 0802 20000kv on the Mob7 (40mm props) very efficient but a heavy motor with 1,5mm shaft and a little sluggish compared to 0702 with higher kv.
Changing the throttle mid and expo to get a better linear throttle curve at 96kv is genius! Really appreciate how easily understandable you make these super useful topics. Looking forward to the rest of the whoop optimising series :3
Great in good time i see this great video because Im building a 65 with the Air brushless 5 in 1 and Im going to follow this instructions to make the motors great again . Thank you.
Great work again! Thank you so much for your work Chris! I have to test the timing again. So far my favorite has been low timing for my high kv motors. But maybe medium really is the sweet spot. I still have to test that. But high timing definitely doesn't make sense for high kv motors. Nice to see that this also comes out in your tests!
I flashed v21, and after some testing I only slightly upped my min power to 1050, and set the timing to 15 degrees. I noticed a distinct extra crispness to the handling; not really big, but noticeable enough to make me happy about it. My tune was already pretty tickety-boo as it was. I kept to 48k, tho'. My throttle curve is already at 1.00 for both midpoint and expo in BF, with a custom curve for the throttle in EdgeTX. That setup doesn't like 96k at all. It needs a re-profiled curve on the radio, something I'll get to later. In the meantime, the few adjustments that I have made following your advice are working as promised. Small steps over time add up to big change. Thanks for the accurate info that lets me achieve that.
Thank you for doing all that work and research for us. I am sad that the motor vendors do not invest anything, neither own research nor tipping you doing their work.
This is very cool, and i hope you do the same for bigger builds such as 3.5 inch and 5 inch, as optimising settings for more efficency and performance really is a great free upgrade. All my escs are blheli-s, and i use bluejay on all of them since it's just so good. There is no need to faff around with the bl32/am32 mess either.
The official Bluejay setup page is recommending way lower startup power values. If you are using such high values and there is something blocking your motors, you will probably burn them right at the start.
Great video, Chris! One comment: AFAIK you should not set the power rating to 1S. I'm pretty sure there's still a bug in bluejay that can randomly trigger the overheating protection of the ESC if the power rating is on 1S. And that can be pretty catastrophic if you happen to fly over water when this happens, as I had to learn the hard way.
Were your efficiency and responsiveness tests @ 96 kHz performed with your throttle curve correction? If not, it would be nice to see the same test results with the curve correction applied @ 96 kHz.
What no giant torque wheel?! 🔥Great information, Chris. So you think 96kHz even though it has lower acceleration/deceleration, is the few percent extra efficiency worth the responsiveness loss?
@@putrid.p I did and was referring to the 8.4% increase from 48k to 96k. You don't get any more thrust at different frequency so the only question is how much power it takes to get you there. Is 17% more thrust per watt (at 1A) worth it if the motors don't change speed fast enough to control it?
Hi @ChrisRosser can you also look into whether the timing and pwm freq recommendations are the same for different motor kV? We have a huge variety of motor kV available, from 16000kv to 40000kv. Also, is it affected by esc deadtime? This is also wildly variant (5-70ms)
Chris, please correct my memory about torque, thrust and pwm. I remember that if we increase the pwm value like to 48 or 96Khz, the motors become smoother but it loses the torque. So if we lose torque, that means thrust is jeopardized meaning, it's affected. That means, torque and thrust aren't proportional.
Chris, the mobula 6 2024 says to use the 48KHz bluejay FW. Do you think it is safe to run that superX aio with the 96Khz FW? Great video I will be trying out these settings and look forward to your next ones
With an ESC dead time 10 instead of 5, would the measured results be the same? Can I even flash an esc firmware with different dead time? I admit I don't know what's different.
Just flashed my Air75 to bluejay 21 and now i get this error message: "Bluejay (.0) version '0.21' (Layout 208) is not yet supported. Let us know by opening an issue." I don't know what to do?
looking qt the bat charts of motor performance qt different timing it seems to be obvious that it doesn't look like normal distribution and the most efficient timing can be between 15 and 22 degrees
Updated blueyay and aplies your settings on a Mobula8HDzero. props didn't spin on arming? fiddled with the settings, it flies, but feels like it will fly away it (did once so i toned down the settings). liftoff/hover is at over 50% throttle? that used to be lower. any recomendations?
Hi Chris, tried it on the mob7 and my turtle flip performance has reduced quite a bit after upgrading to 96hz, I noticed that at 48hz or 22.5 motor timing, it seems to work better. It's just anecdotal observation, but I wanted to check if you have any feedback on this.
96kHz does change the throttle curve and this might reduce turtle mode performance. Increase the crashflip_motor_percent setting in betaflight CLI to fix this.
I see, this settings name is a bit misleading, you probably know this already, but leaving this for other readers with similar problem. it's actually the min power that each prop will spin, so a higher setting may lift it up the ground a bit, while 100 would make it ineffective since there won't be any flipping force. I tried 20, 50 and 75, and 75 worked really well for a hard floor surface. Thank you, problem solved!
You missed one thing: hover throttle. At 48kHz, my hover throttle is about 38%. Then I can use expo to make the range around 38% smoother. At 96kHz my hover throttle is over 50%. And there is no way I can make the hover throttle smaller and still be smoother. That's why I'm still staying at 48kHz
I was following along and flashed to the latest bluejay at 96k, and now my esc's are all gone! I have tried everything I can think of, and I don't think this little Goku 12A AIO has the ability to rescue the esc's with arduino pads. Is there any hope or should I order a new AIO?
I have done this for mobula 6 1s, not flown yet. Can Chris or anyone tell me if that 15 degrees is the right thing for the 2207 1855kv and 2407 1950kv. Does still have the same effect for performance like the whoop?
Have you tried flying with these ESC settings? Because it's complete garbage, the whoop started flying like crap, and there wasn't even enough power to flip over in turtle mode.
@@FlydreamMedia do you have a link to some data about dji motors? I think it is a combination between battery, esc, motor and prop. Not just battery size
@@FlydreamMedia most fpv people want power over efficiency and thoes who don't just buy dji drones. That is probably why there is little data on it. I want a efficient small autonomous inav drone. Seems there is no harm testing them to find out?
Updated bluejay to 0.21 version and my esc died(((( even now when I downgrade esc firmware to BlueJay 0.19.2 - motors still don’t spin. How to fix that? HappyModel 2G4 ELRS FC. 0702 26000kv motors.
What about disc unloading while flight? Also you top up the voltage to 4V per cell on a thrust stand. When you consider voltage sag and disc unlaoding, Im sure the whole results of what is best also shifts over to the next parameter. Personally I leave all on 48khz and 22.5 degrees motor timing. Tried others, but this just felt best in flight. We need a wind tunnel thrust stand wothout toping up the voltage. I test all my favourite prop combinations with gps top speeds, acceleration and general flight time efficiency. Of course not on tinywhoops. Usually I take a props with a little more pitch than the recommended ones from the best thrust stand results. Disc unloading in the moving air and voltage sag just changed everything.
Thanks, this is really helpful. I've been enjoying 35mm 1s walksnail build (betafpv Meteor65 Pro), perhaps it's something you'd be interested in building and getting the best settings for.
Yeah. 8 inch UAVtech always says 24khz pwm for more touque
3 місяці тому
variable pwm will give you the max torque when you need it and max efficiency when you don't. for endurance flights on an 8" you really just need to strip out as much weight while still having a stiff frame. my 8" will do 18 minutes at 35mph with a 6s 2600mah pack and it doesn't feel much different than a 5" quad.
Dude!! it flies 100% better. IDK I got the same flight time. maybe because I’m pushing it more. but bo propwash when pushing. tried trippy spin for the first time with mob6 with those settings 🫡
IMPORTANT! Startup power was bugged in previous versions of BlueJay up to 20.0 so the recommended min and max startup power for 21.0 or later has changed. See here for the detailed information: github.com/bird-sanctuary/bluejay/wiki/Setup
The recommendation for version 21.0 of BlueJay is to gradually increase Min Startup Power (Boost) until your motors reliably start. Then set max startup power 20 points above this.
Mine seems fine at max? Would you still recommend your ammendment?
@@GBUKMilo Yes. They all seem fine at max first, it's the edge cases where it gets tricky. Especially when turtling or something is stuck in your props, your are risking to burn motors/ESCs.
@@stylesuxx Interesting, all looked good however when I really stress the whoop, its seems to go very floatly and won't drop on minimum power. If I recal the gyro (via the VTX) it fixes it.
Hi mr.Chris . i have a question about BLHeli32 . i use 3 Fly Mode rather than acro mode on my 5 inch quad. On that case, i must increase Motor RampUp up to 100% so the motor can rotate on Low Throtle otherwise it will desync. And like you said, it make the motors got more heat . Do i have any option to make the motor rotate on low throttle ? i like to sent you the bench video,if you have discord or instagram.
What does it mean ( the motors reliably start )? How do I tell if they start reliably? Any help would be appreciated
Much appreciated, Chris. I love to fly these but hate to tinker with settings. Very grateful for folks like you 🙏 looking forward to the motor testing.
Same here. Super excited for the motor testing lol
i found the happymodel 0802 20000kv on the Mob7 (40mm props) very efficient but a heavy motor with 1,5mm shaft and a little sluggish compared to 0702 with higher kv.
Changing the throttle mid and expo to get a better linear throttle curve at 96kv is genius! Really appreciate how easily understandable you make these super useful topics. Looking forward to the rest of the whoop optimising series :3
Yes! Finally a video on tiny whoop optimization, we've been waiting for this.
You have the most underrated channel.
All amazing Information
thanks so much for this, you are doing the work we can't do but all need! thank youuuuu
Thank you so much... Just fixed my issue with the Ramp up power explanation
Great in good time i see this great video because Im building a 65 with the Air brushless 5 in 1 and Im going to follow this instructions to make the motors great again . Thank you.
Great work again! Thank you so much for your work Chris! I have to test the timing again. So far my favorite has been low timing for my high kv motors. But maybe medium really is the sweet spot. I still have to test that. But high timing definitely doesn't make sense for high kv motors. Nice to see that this also comes out in your tests!
I flashed v21, and after some testing I only slightly upped my min power to 1050, and set the timing to 15 degrees. I noticed a distinct extra crispness to the handling; not really big, but noticeable enough to make me happy about it. My tune was already pretty tickety-boo as it was. I kept to 48k, tho'. My throttle curve is already at 1.00 for both midpoint and expo in BF, with a custom curve for the throttle in EdgeTX. That setup doesn't like 96k at all. It needs a re-profiled curve on the radio, something I'll get to later. In the meantime, the few adjustments that I have made following your advice are working as promised. Small steps over time add up to big change. Thanks for the accurate info that lets me achieve that.
What quad do you have? Want to share your setup and tune?
@@mistrzu1231212 I'm using a Mobula8 [analog/ELRS], running Betaflight 4.4, BlueJay 0.21, ELRS v3.5.1, and EdgeTX v2.10.5.
Thank you for doing all that work and research for us. I am sad that the motor vendors do not invest anything, neither own research nor tipping you doing their work.
Thanks Chris! Great stuff. I'll be making these changes later today.
You're one of my favorite FPV youtubers
i have a very old meteor 65 i`m about to upgrade it and following what you did here seems to work great thanks for the video keep up the good work
One word....GENIUS
Thank you for this great video about the efficiency from Tiny whoop motors👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 I will apply the settings to my 2" whoop. ☺️☺️
that thumbnail would make a sweet coffee mug
You test is valid for one specific Controler. Response to PWM frequency increase is highly dependent on controler CPU speed.
This is very cool, and i hope you do the same for bigger builds such as 3.5 inch and 5 inch, as optimising settings for more efficency and performance really is a great free upgrade. All my escs are blheli-s, and i use bluejay on all of them since it's just so good. There is no need to faff around with the bl32/am32 mess either.
Oh my gooood this is just what I was looking for for a long time! Thanks a lot!
Thanks Chris, thorough as always!
The official Bluejay setup page is recommending way lower startup power values. If you are using such high values and there is something blocking your motors, you will probably burn them right at the start.
Excellent work, Chris! That is an extremely valued information for all of us!! Thanks
thanks for such another great video and advice......as always nothin but the best thanks Chris!!!!!!
ahh, can't wait for tinywoop motor test 🙏🏼💪🏼
This was a great video, finally giving us some hard data for whoops!
wau grate video going to give it a try.
thanks for sharing
Great video, Chris! One comment: AFAIK you should not set the power rating to 1S. I'm pretty sure there's still a bug in bluejay that can randomly trigger the overheating protection of the ESC if the power rating is on 1S. And that can be pretty catastrophic if you happen to fly over water when this happens, as I had to learn the hard way.
Been waiting for this, huge thanks 🙏🏼
I want the "involuntary lawnmower" and "mid-flight beeping goggle battery" T-shirt designs
Yup I’d rock these all day
Thanks, Looks like just a magic!
I cant wait to try this out!
Chris I absolutely love this content - subbed and patreoned
This is exactly what I was waiting for!!
Awesome Chris! Thanks so much for this!
Oh nice this series will be exactly what i wanted! Could you also mention what parts to pick for top speed?
subscribed
Excellent work. Thanks Chris.
Thank you so much for this video :)
Thabks for the info!
Thanks for the video
Is there a threshold kv at which you need to go over 15degrees to 22.5 ? Like if you're running 27000kv or the crazy 32000kv?
That's a great question.
Great Chris Rosser 💪🏼 What settings do you recommend for CineWhoop 2.5 inch? Thanks
Thanks again!
The designer is Chat-Gpt ? Just kidding.😁 Awesome t-shirt. Unfortunately, I live in Argentina and is very hard to import anything into the country.
Nifty-keen, old bean. Will you be including 2S whoops?
Were your efficiency and responsiveness tests @ 96 kHz performed with your throttle curve correction? If not, it would be nice to see the same test results with the curve correction applied @ 96 kHz.
We love you!!!!!
This helped me brick one ESC on my whoopfly 16 board :(
Lol almost wish I waited to see how the webleedfpv screamer 0702 32500kv motors perform in your next vid, but I already bought them
Angle mode user present ☝🏽
Thanks so much Chris!! Would you recommend these settings for toothpick size motors also?
The only thing missing is to show how it actually flies 😀
Fantastic info! So... what about small-ish 4" quads? Is there some gain in using these settings?
What no giant torque wheel?! 🔥Great information, Chris. So you think 96kHz even though it has lower acceleration/deceleration, is the few percent extra efficiency worth the responsiveness loss?
@@putrid.p I did and was referring to the 8.4% increase from 48k to 96k. You don't get any more thrust at different frequency so the only question is how much power it takes to get you there. Is 17% more thrust per watt (at 1A) worth it if the motors don't change speed fast enough to control it?
very nice
Hi @ChrisRosser can you also look into whether the timing and pwm freq recommendations are the same for different motor kV? We have a huge variety of motor kV available, from 16000kv to 40000kv. Also, is it affected by esc deadtime? This is also wildly variant (5-70ms)
Chris, please correct my memory about torque, thrust and pwm. I remember that if we increase the pwm value like to 48 or 96Khz, the motors become smoother but it loses the torque. So if we lose torque, that means thrust is jeopardized meaning, it's affected. That means, torque and thrust aren't proportional.
What about the 4" LR case, does it help improve efficiency?
Chris, the mobula 6 2024 says to use the 48KHz bluejay FW. Do you think it is safe to run that superX aio with the 96Khz FW?
Great video I will be trying out these settings and look forward to your next ones
Perfect.
It's working for flylens85 ?
Also: do you think switching to 96 kHz still makes sense on 1102 motors? Will you also be testing those motors for larger whoops?
For me as a racer absolutely yes! More flighttime and more consistency in flight..
With an ESC dead time 10 instead of 5, would the measured results be the same? Can I even flash an esc firmware with different dead time? I admit I don't know what's different.
Bravo
Just flashed my Air75 to bluejay 21 and now i get this error message:
"Bluejay (.0) version '0.21' (Layout 208) is not yet supported.
Let us know by opening an issue."
I don't know what to do?
+++
too
Hi Chris. What about using thrust linearization to overcome the negative aspects of high pwm freq?
Make another vid for 2s whoops with 1003 of 1103 motors
looking qt the bat charts of motor performance qt different timing it seems to be obvious that it doesn't look like normal distribution and the most efficient timing can be between 15 and 22 degrees
Updated blueyay and aplies your settings on a Mobula8HDzero. props didn't spin on arming?
fiddled with the settings, it flies, but feels like it will fly away it (did once so i toned down the settings).
liftoff/hover is at over 50% throttle? that used to be lower.
any recomendations?
Hi Chris, tried it on the mob7 and my turtle flip performance has reduced quite a bit after upgrading to 96hz, I noticed that at 48hz or 22.5 motor timing, it seems to work better. It's just anecdotal observation, but I wanted to check if you have any feedback on this.
96kHz does change the throttle curve and this might reduce turtle mode performance. Increase the crashflip_motor_percent setting in betaflight CLI to fix this.
@@ChrisRosser thanks, weird enough, it's set to zero! I'll try to play with this setting.
I see, this settings name is a bit misleading, you probably know this already, but leaving this for other readers with similar problem. it's actually the min power that each prop will spin, so a higher setting may lift it up the ground a bit, while 100 would make it ineffective since there won't be any flipping force. I tried 20, 50 and 75, and 75 worked really well for a hard floor surface. Thank you, problem solved!
You missed one thing: hover throttle. At 48kHz, my hover throttle is about 38%. Then I can use expo to make the range around 38% smoother.
At 96kHz my hover throttle is over 50%. And there is no way I can make the hover throttle smaller and still be smoother.
That's why I'm still staying at 48kHz
Does this work for 2inch whoops with o3s? Or is this only for tiny whoops
I was following along and flashed to the latest bluejay at 96k, and now my esc's are all gone!
I have tried everything I can think of, and I don't think this little Goku 12A AIO has the ability to rescue the esc's with arduino pads.
Is there any hope or should I order a new AIO?
Maybe this helps ua-cam.com/users/liveM-g-WnUTZXQ?si=geOPT2SUFjPp99Cs&t=3171
I have done this for mobula 6 1s, not flown yet. Can Chris or anyone tell me if that 15 degrees is the right thing for the 2207 1855kv and 2407 1950kv. Does still have the same effect for performance like the whoop?
So variable pwm would make the most sense for tiny whoop motors ?
If so, it's strange no whoop manufacturer has jumped on the 32 bit esc train yet.
I forgot to say thanks for sharing your findings !
Have you tried flying with these ESC settings? Because it's complete garbage, the whoop started flying like crap, and there wasn't even enough power to flip over in turtle mode.
After bluejay update on my tiny whoop mobula6 my core temperature is increasing rapidly ... Ano one with same problem?
i got that too, decided to go to 48khz,
Suposedly 70ºc is not big deal tho
Moblite Walksnail v3 96k made it not able to startup almost ever. Had to go to 48k.
Anyone knows if it is normal not to have the bidirectional dshot option available in the Betaflight configurator after flashing BlueJay?
In that case you need to update to a Newer version of beta flight,then the option appears
When and if you test motor sizes similar to DJIs please include dji motors. I am curious to how they are so efficient
They aren't. Dji uses huge batteries. That's why dji drones are slower and less fun, but fly longer
@@FlydreamMedia do you have a link to some data about dji motors? I think it is a combination between battery, esc, motor and prop. Not just battery size
@dfgaJK I don't, but if it were motors, people would be taking them from dji drones and using them elsewhere
@@FlydreamMedia most fpv people want power over efficiency and thoes who don't just buy dji drones. That is probably why there is little data on it. I want a efficient small autonomous inav drone.
Seems there is no harm testing them to find out?
@@dfgaJK super huge props super small motor, that is what makes them efficient.
My Betafpv 65 air got bricked after flashing ESC's by the following instructions :((
Onto something.
Updated bluejay to 0.21 version and my esc died(((( even now when I downgrade esc firmware to BlueJay 0.19.2 - motors still don’t spin. How to fix that? HappyModel 2G4 ELRS FC. 0702 26000kv motors.
Had the same problem solved it by upping the min and max setting.try min 1050 & max 1165
What about disc unloading while flight?
Also you top up the voltage to 4V per cell on a thrust stand.
When you consider voltage sag and disc unlaoding, Im sure the whole results of what is best also shifts over to the next parameter.
Personally I leave all on 48khz and 22.5 degrees motor timing. Tried others, but this just felt best in flight.
We need a wind tunnel thrust stand wothout toping up the voltage.
I test all my favourite prop combinations with gps top speeds, acceleration and general flight time efficiency. Of course not on tinywhoops.
Usually I take a props with a little more pitch than the recommended ones from the best thrust stand results. Disc unloading in the moving air and voltage sag just changed everything.
On my air 65 the Firmware is Not bluejay it is BL Heli S
CAUTION: this damaged one of my HappyModel ESC's. Had to install a new AIO
why dont you get some tables
Thanks, this is really helpful. I've been enjoying 35mm 1s walksnail build (betafpv Meteor65 Pro), perhaps it's something you'd be interested in building and getting the best settings for.
Hello, Chris! What about maximum efficiency guide for bigger drones , for example 8 inch?
Yeah. 8 inch UAVtech always says 24khz pwm for more touque
variable pwm will give you the max torque when you need it and max efficiency when you don't. for endurance flights on an 8" you really just need to strip out as much weight while still having a stiff frame. my 8" will do 18 minutes at 35mph with a 6s 2600mah pack and it doesn't feel much different than a 5" quad.
Dude!! it flies 100% better. IDK I got the same flight time. maybe because I’m pushing it more. but bo propwash when pushing. tried trippy spin for the first time with mob6 with those settings 🫡
Very good intel Chris, thank you!
Onto something.