Followup: see this nice video by @MessicksEquip that demonstrates this very nicely with weights and wheel scales: ua-cam.com/video/D2Kt1Y5xaRM/v-deo.html -- it's a great confirmation of the math and physics we discussed here.
Mr. Lumber Jack ,this was the BEST "Tutorial" of Loader weight distribution EVER.... Where as yer Typical "home-lowner Twack-tor Driver's" are Nearly "Clue-less"( very rarely do "they" READ & understand their Operator's Manuals). This Analysis will "Safely-Help" many Opperaters of ALL "Calibers"....myself included.! A Very GOOD "Scientific Explanation" that should ALLWAYS be used & even with Caution....; instead of doing Tractor Loader Work with an "Attitude" of "Just going for IT". Thank you Sir for the Excelent vidio and happy safe tractoring. Best wishes with all your endeavours.
In addition to using tractors on our property, I’m a math nerd, so I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE this video which includes the physics and math plus the practical discussion of rear ballasting for loader work. I had not previously seen the equations and worked through examples. This will be very helpful for setting up a new tractor soon. Thank you.
I liked your video and it did a good job of answering the question you posed, front axle weight. I am concerned some viewers will confuse that with tractor stability, especially where roll over is concerned. Fluid, weights, and tractor width at the rear axle do a lot for stability. Since your so good at setting up the equations, I suggest you consider a topic on the variables to avoid rollover. This should include the weight and height of “P”. Thanks, as an Engineer and old Farm Boy I really enjoy your approach to the topics you pick.
Beauty = Tractors + Algebra :) With my first tractor purchase only 2 weeks behind me, you have me looking at ballast boxes. I really appreciate the math and also appreciate the fact that you simplified it for everyone. Nicely done, sir!!
Thank you another very interesting analysis. I appreciate the look at this topic from an engineering standpoint. I have destroyed front wheel bearings on my tractor from over loading in the past. I built a 3 point ballast from old wheel weights that helps reduce loading on my front wheels. Works very well and so far no bearing failure. I plan on using your formula to determine the actual loading on my front wheel. I lift some pretty large logs onto my sawmill so it would be nice to know the front wheel loading.
Well explained, I suggest every tractor owner needs to see your force diagrams. It also reminded me of the rear cargo racks I see out on the interstates as people load up for the big trip. Most have no idea of the “ballast box” they just added to their vehicle or camper and the effect it will have.
This is a great overall explanation with the equations and examples. I just upped my weight box and it feels completely different; this explains why. I will use this every time I’m lifting something heavy. Thanks 🎉
I ran several calculations based on my stuff. Weight on the back is worth about 2/3 on the front. I’m adding HydrosPlus cylinders and was worried about the front axle; so this is extremely helpful. Many thanks.
Great video and great explanation of the physics. You just explained why I need to replace the front wheel bearings in my JD400 with my Brantly 420a loader. I bought it recently and was wondering why the front bearings were toast. Lol 😄. Nicely done, I appreciate it. 😃👍🏻
Great video, I've got a ford 640 with a loader for lifting logs that I've been debating on what kind of ballast to put on it, ballast on the 3 point is a no brainer
Good video if you are buying a tractor for heavy loader use the front axle needs to be well in front of motor all our tractors with loaders are and the longer the wheel base the better on the all our tractors have loaded rear tires. If you do put a brush hog on rear use sway bars. I know some body had one of his rear tires fixed they didn't reload that tire he got on a hill and turned the tractor over and he was killed. It he had a cab on tractor he may have lived or made sure they reloaded the tire he was in a hurry to get his hay up. Take care, be safe and well.
There is another comment here regarding roll over . I would like to see you do a video on weight/roll over, and have your perspective on it . Maybe you could give us some tips to avoid roll over with tht use of weights, as roll overs are common with tractors. Awesome video best i have ever seen regarding ballast. Thanks
I did two videos on lateral stability & rollover last year: Simple 2D Analysis: ua-cam.com/video/Rk2qR66iF1g/v-deo.html 3D Analysis: ua-cam.com/video/yJnVCzBJ8jU/v-deo.html
Another very good video. Maybe point out a dangerous and quick change in the balance point and how it will change the higher your payload is and if you roll payload forward on your forks ie. a log. Thanks
A useful addition would be to show the weight transfer from the rear to the front axle, espeically when the rear ballast is insufficient. The reference state should be no load front or rear.
You did an excellent job of describing the physics of ballasting, but you left out a considerable issue in the practical world. That is, slope. Speaking from decades of experience in safety training across a variety of industries, there are far more heavy equipment accidents and mishaps related to rollover than front to back balance loss. Understanding that, justifies ballasting the wheels as a measure of stabilizing against longitudinal forces that lead to rollover.
This was really helpful as I am looking as ballast options for my compact tractor. So wheel weights or liquid won’t help remove pressure on the front axle, but it would still help hold the rear wheels to the ground with a heavy load in the bucket, correct?
Liquid or wheel weights will increase ground force and traction of the rear wheels, but it's only about 60% as effective as rear ballast behind the axle for the same amount of weight. So yeah, it works to help the rear, but it's at a bit of a disadvantage pound for pound. In fact, adding weight over the rear tires is not even as good as taking weight off the front bucket, pound for pound.
It would seem to me that if you ballast the rear tires, you are moving the center of gravity toward the rear of the tractor as compared to a tractor with no tire ballast.
Ive added ballast to my tires not for front to back but rather side to side mainly for mowing on hill sides which i think may increase the side angle at which you can opperate can you address this question ? , jack
I did two videos on lateral stability last year: Simple 2D Analysis: ua-cam.com/video/Rk2qR66iF1g/v-deo.html 3D Analysis: ua-cam.com/video/yJnVCzBJ8jU/v-deo.html Tire ballast will help if it lowers the center of gravity of the tractor.
Sorry I got bored and couldn't listen to all the scientific explanations, so perhaps you did address this later in the video; no disrespect, it was all very well presented, I just have ADHD issues. It sounds like you are saying rear ballasted tires will not help prevent the tractor from pivoting on the front axle/tires and tipping over. While I get that they won't help unload any weight from the front axle like weight behind the rear axle will, I do not understand how heavier rear tires wouldn't help keep the rear of the tractor planted. It seems to me that any downward force in the front loader will have to lift everything rear of the front axle before it can start tipping. I've seen a lot of videos where tractors tip forward over the front axle and crash. In any case, I have wheel weights, ballast filled tires, and a heavy rear mounted ballast on the 3 point and I can operate my tractor carrying the full capacity of my loader with confidence...
It's really a stability issue if you want to think about the slightly different problem of a tractor tipping forward over the front axle. In that scenario, the front axle is your pivot point so of course any weight to the rear of the front axle will counteract weight in the front loader, and weight on the rear axle can help keep the rear tires planted. However, you're already in an unstable stance if the front axle has become the pivot point, and it's not a good scenario to be in. Any motions/accelerations can quickly overcome whatever static balance you had and cause problems. You want to avoid getting in that unstable stance in the first place, by having sufficient ballast behind the rear axle so that the rear axle is the main pivot point, not the front axle.
Followup: see this nice video by @MessicksEquip that demonstrates this very nicely with weights and wheel scales: ua-cam.com/video/D2Kt1Y5xaRM/v-deo.html -- it's a great confirmation of the math and physics we discussed here.
Mr. Lumber Jack ,this was the BEST "Tutorial" of Loader weight distribution EVER.... Where as yer Typical "home-lowner Twack-tor Driver's" are Nearly "Clue-less"( very rarely do "they" READ & understand their Operator's Manuals). This Analysis will "Safely-Help" many Opperaters of ALL "Calibers"....myself included.! A Very GOOD "Scientific Explanation" that should ALLWAYS be used & even with Caution....; instead of doing Tractor Loader Work with an "Attitude" of "Just going for IT". Thank you Sir for the Excelent vidio and happy safe tractoring. Best wishes with all your endeavours.
In addition to using tractors on our property, I’m a math nerd, so I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE this video which includes the physics and math plus the practical discussion of rear ballasting for loader work. I had not previously seen the equations and worked through examples. This will be very helpful for setting up a new tractor soon. Thank you.
🤨Going slow is the ticket.! Its #1 in my opinion.! Everything else is a added bonus.! 🤔 Video was fantastic.! 👍
I liked your video and it did a good job of answering the question you posed, front axle weight.
I am concerned some viewers will confuse that with tractor stability, especially where roll over is concerned. Fluid, weights, and tractor width at the rear axle do a lot for stability. Since your so good at setting up the equations, I suggest you consider a topic on the variables to avoid rollover. This should include the weight and height of “P”.
Thanks, as an Engineer and old Farm Boy I really enjoy your approach to the topics you pick.
Side stability would make an interesting video for sure.
Beauty = Tractors + Algebra :) With my first tractor purchase only 2 weeks behind me, you have me looking at ballast boxes. I really appreciate the math and also appreciate the fact that you simplified it for everyone. Nicely done, sir!!
Interesting. I like your video and also messicks. After lifting the rear wheel I put the effort to hook up the ballast
Excellent explanation about rear weight placement. Great video. Thanks.
Fantastic video. Can't wait to watch your lateral stability video next. Love to see how math supports a seat of the pants calculation.
Thank you another very interesting analysis. I appreciate the look at this topic from an engineering standpoint. I have destroyed front wheel bearings on my tractor from over loading in the past. I built a 3 point ballast from old wheel weights that helps reduce loading on my front wheels. Works very well and so far no bearing failure. I plan on using your formula to determine the actual loading on my front wheel. I lift some pretty large logs onto my sawmill so it would be nice to know the front wheel loading.
Great explanation Lumber Jack. The way you put it all into perspective made a whole lot of sense. Thank you !
Simple explanation which was very helpful for me. Thank you! 6:59
Well explained, I suggest every tractor owner needs to see your force diagrams. It also reminded me of the rear cargo racks I see out on the interstates as people load up for the big trip. Most have no idea of the “ballast box” they just added to their vehicle or camper and the effect it will have.
This is a great overall explanation with the equations and examples. I just upped my weight box and it feels completely different; this explains why. I will use this every time I’m lifting something heavy. Thanks 🎉
Yep, I had the same impression the first time I used a proper weight box, the tractor felt so much more planted.
I ran several calculations based on my stuff. Weight on the back is worth about 2/3 on the front. I’m adding HydrosPlus cylinders and was worried about the front axle; so this is extremely helpful. Many thanks.
Great video and great explanation of the physics. You just explained why I need to replace the front wheel bearings in my JD400 with my Brantly 420a loader. I bought it recently and was wondering why the front bearings were toast. Lol 😄. Nicely done, I appreciate it. 😃👍🏻
Awesome video thank you!!!
Great video, I've got a ford 640 with a loader for lifting logs that I've been debating on what kind of ballast to put on it, ballast on the 3 point is a no brainer
Good video if you are buying a tractor for heavy loader use the front axle needs to be well in front of motor all our tractors with loaders are and the longer the wheel base the better on the all our tractors have loaded rear tires. If you do put a brush hog on rear use sway bars. I know some body had one of his rear tires fixed they didn't reload that tire he got on a hill and turned the tractor over and he was killed. It he had a cab on tractor he may have lived or made sure they reloaded the tire he was in a hurry to get his hay up. Take care, be safe and well.
There is another comment here regarding roll over . I would like to see you do a video on weight/roll over, and have your perspective on it . Maybe you could give us some tips to avoid roll over with tht use of weights, as roll overs are common with tractors. Awesome video best i have ever seen regarding ballast. Thanks
I did two videos on lateral stability & rollover last year:
Simple 2D Analysis:
ua-cam.com/video/Rk2qR66iF1g/v-deo.html
3D Analysis:
ua-cam.com/video/yJnVCzBJ8jU/v-deo.html
Great video!
Another very good video. Maybe point out a dangerous and quick change in the balance point and how it will change the higher your payload is and if you roll payload forward on your forks ie. a log. Thanks
Well done 👍👍
A useful addition would be to show the weight transfer from the rear to the front axle, espeically when the rear ballast is insufficient. The reference state should be no load front or rear.
I didn't know that you could walk like an Egyptian. Cool!
You did an excellent job of describing the physics of ballasting, but you left out a considerable issue in the practical world. That is, slope.
Speaking from decades of experience in safety training across a variety of industries, there are far more heavy equipment accidents and mishaps related to rollover than front to back balance loss.
Understanding that, justifies ballasting the wheels as a measure of stabilizing against longitudinal forces that lead to rollover.
Different topic and video -- covered some of that in prior videos but will do another soon.
This was really helpful as I am looking as ballast options for my compact tractor. So wheel weights or liquid won’t help remove pressure on the front axle, but it would still help hold the rear wheels to the ground with a heavy load in the bucket, correct?
Liquid or wheel weights will increase ground force and traction of the rear wheels, but it's only about 60% as effective as rear ballast behind the axle for the same amount of weight. So yeah, it works to help the rear, but it's at a bit of a disadvantage pound for pound. In fact, adding weight over the rear tires is not even as good as taking weight off the front bucket, pound for pound.
Thank you, you’ve been a real help.
It would seem to me that if you ballast the rear tires, you are moving the center of gravity toward the rear of the tractor as compared to a tractor with no tire ballast.
For sure, but unfortunately it doesn't help offload your front axle at all. It mainly helps to keep the rear planted and improve traction.
Ive added ballast to my tires not for front to back but rather side to side mainly for mowing on hill sides which i think may increase the side angle at which you can opperate can you address this question ? , jack
I did two videos on lateral stability last year:
Simple 2D Analysis:
ua-cam.com/video/Rk2qR66iF1g/v-deo.html
3D Analysis:
ua-cam.com/video/yJnVCzBJ8jU/v-deo.html
Tire ballast will help if it lowers the center of gravity of the tractor.
Buy a backhoe, its extremely useful and great ballast
Sorry I got bored and couldn't listen to all the scientific explanations, so perhaps you did address this later in the video; no disrespect, it was all very well presented, I just have ADHD issues. It sounds like you are saying rear ballasted tires will not help prevent the tractor from pivoting on the front axle/tires and tipping over. While I get that they won't help unload any weight from the front axle like weight behind the rear axle will, I do not understand how heavier rear tires wouldn't help keep the rear of the tractor planted. It seems to me that any downward force in the front loader will have to lift everything rear of the front axle before it can start tipping. I've seen a lot of videos where tractors tip forward over the front axle and crash. In any case, I have wheel weights, ballast filled tires, and a heavy rear mounted ballast on the 3 point and I can operate my tractor carrying the full capacity of my loader with confidence...
It's really a stability issue if you want to think about the slightly different problem of a tractor tipping forward over the front axle. In that scenario, the front axle is your pivot point so of course any weight to the rear of the front axle will counteract weight in the front loader, and weight on the rear axle can help keep the rear tires planted. However, you're already in an unstable stance if the front axle has become the pivot point, and it's not a good scenario to be in. Any motions/accelerations can quickly overcome whatever static balance you had and cause problems. You want to avoid getting in that unstable stance in the first place, by having sufficient ballast behind the rear axle so that the rear axle is the main pivot point, not the front axle.