Pretty much. However, the overall design doesn't even manage to make it to that classification. Its so much bigger than the ships its replacing, it just loses any possible use case.
So, in short, from the initial specification, someone from the Royal Australian Navy decided to remove/modify the ship and in the end they declared it to be not seaworthy. At the same time, a Darussalam-class offshore patrol vessel has been in active service for more than 13 years.
Good post: keep going. BTW, the Arafura Class ship is not a replacement for the Cape Class Boats or the Armidale's for that matter. The Cape's are a like-for-like replacement the Armidale's (without a main gun) where the Arafura's are a new class completely. The gross incompetence of the Government and maybe the ADF is astonishing. An OPV that has sea keeping issues ! An OPV that can not land a helicopter on its helicopter deck ! An 80m war ship that essentially can't shoot (no missiles, no air defence capacity and no appropriate main gun) ! One thing you missed is apparently they also forgot or have failed to designed for adequate fire fighting capacity, essential for a OPV.
the liberal government that ordered them, along with just about every defence project they fked around with.. japanese subs, french subs etc.. the hunters
Why get a new ship with no weapon? Just like the 2 carrier no aircraft 2 new supply ships both out of action and new patrol boat no weapon Australian Navy in a very weak state worst than pre WW2.
Fitted-for-but-not-with to lower the cost. It could, but it didn't but still could be fitted. But the problem with this project is that the assumption was there wouldn't be a high intensity conflict in near future a decade ago. But then bamm.... Russia and China.
A boat the Navy doesn't want now, so many issues they want to give them straight to the ABF so they become their problem and the cost of the first one is now the same price as an Anzac Frigate!
Who made the decision on downgrading the capabilities of this ship? Was it a politician, funding, or defence hierarchy, and why hasn't there been transparency on these issues?
A mistake in the assessment of threat a decade ago. RAN could technically up gunned the arafura because it's already built with the fitted for but not with option. But the problem is the survivability of her structure in a high intensity conflict. The threat of drones and multimission demand of modern warfare. Oz isn't alone. Netherlands are replacing their OPV with smaller LPD and multirole MCM vessel. Same with Portuguese navy, Royal Canadian Navy and Royal Navy. RCN will replace their OPV with corvettes while RN is still assessing the Batch 2 Type 31e frigate but with fewer people.
nothing is fit for purpose. 47 billion for 6 hunter class frigats with 32 cell vls.. and near peer adversary ect china has tripple that vls count. they just depleat the air efenses then sink them every time.. completely pointless
2 advices: 1st If I am not wrong you never specified which navy Arafura is committed (I had to guess by what marines where wearing) 2nd: if you talk about a ship in a video just show her, I been watching 5 minutes of beaches, marines and helicopters... Anyway your analysis is pretty good.
Thank Turnbull for selecting a vessel that is trying to replace 4 different platforms which probably means while it’s capable of these things it probably won’t be any good at any of them
Its good at the roles of the current ships, which is all I can really say about it. But it costs about triple the price, and is far bigger, yet lacks any of the capabilities.
The Arafura class will do a great job patrolling the waters around Christmas Island and the Cocos Islands in the RAN's efforts to control their border from illegal immigrants and asylum seekers...
Absolutely! Its a tragedy that it failed so badly. We could have had a very capable asset, in a relatively short period of time, but all we got was a bigger cape class.
Arafura should never been chosen as poor weapon layout, no hanger, flight deck can't support Seahawk. Years ago ADF was offering Malaysia OPV, 57mm gun, 8 cell VLS, hanger for Lynx or Seasprite weighing 2000t. This how s#$t kick off as ADF or RAN order 11 Seasprite helicopters these were go on new ANZAC frigates. Well Malaysia went with another offer, OPV was drop n instead dropping Seasprite n getting more Seahawks as RAN had already have Seahawks in service on Adelaide frigates it decided waste over $1 BILLION before dropping Seasprite. Years later instead of going with old design nar Arafura was going be multi purpose OVP, RAN couldn't explain why they drop 40mm gun.
The ship is proven and a great designe, issue is Oz goverand Navy did their usual same with the Anzacs, they got involved and stuffed it up and u derarmed it. Why not just take the proven design, build and arm it how it was designed to be ?
That would be ideal, however, there are some major issues. The first being that its air defence is somewhat lackluster, particularly in the age of modern missiles and drones. The second is that the ship has been fundamentally changed from its original design, particularly regarding the helicopter deck, which is no longer rated to carry helicopters. All in all, its a good design, but it has been fiddled around with so much by bureucrats, that it really isn't the source material.
The class has only one use that of drone anti mine warfare ship! The cranes are ideal for shipping the drones & the stern ramp ideal for naval clearance divers! Fitting the 30mm from the minesweepers could also be an option!
We should have gotten the Austal OPV based on the enhanced Cape Class. In the long term we need to transfer the Cape Class from the RAN to Border Force and leave border control and constabulary work to Border Force. The RAN should get corvettes, frigates, destroyers and LHD’s plus specialist vessels like mine hunters and focus on war fighting. Also nuclear subs was a stupid idea as we need subs now: we should immediately get German Type 216S diesel that are being used by Singapore and are special forces capable.
I completely agree with you. Although, id probably ask for the new South Korean Submarines, which can carry ballistic and cruise missiles, which is quite helpful, given our acquisition of Tomahawks.
So where are you getting all the crew for all these ships? We can barely put one collins out to sea at the moment. HMAS Sydney has been stuck at Garden Island for 18 months now for some reason. Some of the anzacs are stuck because we don't have enough crew to operate them. The LHD's take alot of resources and even though we have these new cape classes none of them have a main gun because nobody has thought to take the 25mm cannons off the armidales to put on the new boats. Even the 2 arafura's could have the DS30b's from the Huons seconded on to them. Not sure why nobody has thought to put the old 76mm guns from the old adelaides on to the hobarts to give them some upgraded countrer drone capabilities or even a second phalanx on the back of them as well.
Austral are the worst shipbuilder in Australia, the cape class are rubbish if you don’t believe me come to cairns and look at how many are in the dockyard
An actual photo of the Arafura would have been of great assistance to actually know what you are talking about. There are some videos of the unidentified thing out there, as well.
Please don't mock Australia, actually getting a boat to float is not as easy as it sounds, with any new technology there is always unforeseen outcomes and costings. As for weapons, a Naval patrols boat intercepting perhaps unfriendly armed ships, only needs a low-lit area with coloured disco ball lighting where the crews of the Navy and intercepted hostile ship can sit down and talk about their feels. This is what happens when the military budget is used to support a bureaucracy and not the military.
Hey the Arafura is a patrol boat the cape class are crap to short range Australia’s coast line is to big for crap like the cape class and Armidale class . The cape class are stop gaps nothing more Australia has needed a large long range ocean going patrol vessels for the last forty years if there is seaworthy issues with the Arafura class then the builder need to be questioned, Brunei has operated these vessels without major issues people want these vessels to be something they are not these ships are coast guard ships if you want warships buy warships.
Because the video was made almost a year ago now, in some spare time that I had off work. I didn't have any relevant footage at the time, and didn't think that this video would get as much reach or as many views as it did, so I didn't really bother trying to find navy videos.
Yep. One should never ever let their guard down and that is exactly what has been done since the Sydney and Melbourne carriers were decommissioned and never replaced. We should have at least 2 medium sized aircraft carriers in service and each with a cruiser escort.
@@robertaustin6940 Why? Frankly the former Sydney provided much more service to the RAN than the former Melbourne... Do you really think a small light carrier with less than a dozen fighter jets will defeat a much larger fleet carrier with sixty or more fighter jets? Odds are that small light carrier will be sunk quickly... China is building large carriers three times the size of the Canberra class LHDs...
Amphibious vessels with three F-35b each vessel would be the way to go, surface vessel that isn't a aircraft carrier would be defeated by a vessel you could cycle F-35b off the deck to intercept an destroy vessels as a hunting vessel of surface vessel in a war situation
It would be an extremely interesting decision. The main issue with this, would be the required expansion of both our F35 fleets and the procurement of a new vessel that can hold F35s.
I think the best kind of OPV should be in style of the Damen modular OPV, in peace time u need solod gun to blast the pirates and smuglers, and in war time it would be easy to switch modules to other duties like mine laying or anti submarine torpedo pod ex. There fore it wouldt be so expensive and intimidating to foren powers in peace time amd wery usefull in war time
Good to hear about the issues. Footage of the relevant vessels and weaponry might enhance your video next time.
It is a warship which was never meant to go to war
Pretty much. However, the overall design doesn't even manage to make it to that classification. Its so much bigger than the ships its replacing, it just loses any possible use case.
No it's an offshore patrol vessel that is not meant to go to war.
@@carisi2k11 Thats right, it should neve have been classed as a "warship"
The greatest threat to Australia is not China, it's the idiots that make decisions on our future Navy
@@alexlanning712 Correct, it is a 'constabulary' vehicle.
As they say "Fitted for but not with " typical.
So the ship is crap, because clueless public servants cut the guts out of it?
Pretty much, yeah. I mean, obviously, there is a little more to it, but, in a nutshell, that describes the problems quite well.
were australia, everything is light armed or undergunned. it fits our left wing woke ideology and our stance of our navy being purely humanatarian.
So, in short, from the initial specification, someone from the Royal Australian Navy decided to remove/modify the ship and in the end they declared it to be not seaworthy. At the same time, a Darussalam-class offshore patrol vessel has been in active service for more than 13 years.
Pretty much!
Good post: keep going. BTW, the Arafura Class ship is not a replacement for the Cape Class Boats or the Armidale's for that matter. The Cape's are a like-for-like replacement the Armidale's (without a main gun) where the Arafura's are a new class completely. The gross incompetence of the Government and maybe the ADF is astonishing. An OPV that has sea keeping issues ! An OPV that can not land a helicopter on its helicopter deck ! An 80m war ship that essentially can't shoot (no missiles, no air defence capacity and no appropriate main gun) ! One thing you missed is apparently they also forgot or have failed to designed for adequate fire fighting capacity, essential for a OPV.
the liberal government that ordered them, along with just about every defence project they fked around with.. japanese subs, french subs etc.. the hunters
Why get a new ship with no weapon? Just like the 2 carrier no aircraft 2 new supply ships both out of action and new patrol boat no weapon Australian Navy in a very weak state worst than pre WW2.
Thats what I don't get. Having two LHDs that has no helicopters for them. Waist of money
Fitted-for-but-not-with to lower the cost. It could, but it didn't but still could be fitted.
But the problem with this project is that the assumption was there wouldn't be a high intensity conflict in near future a decade ago. But then bamm.... Russia and China.
@@Nathan-yy2xsto save cost, rather than having her own dedicated air wing, it could be used as a platform of rotating air wings. That's the idea
A boat the Navy doesn't want now, so many issues they want to give them straight to the ABF so they become their problem and the cost of the first one is now the same price as an Anzac Frigate!
Who made the decision on downgrading the capabilities of this ship? Was it a politician, funding, or defence hierarchy, and why hasn't there been transparency on these issues?
A mistake in the assessment of threat a decade ago. RAN could technically up gunned the arafura because it's already built with the fitted for but not with option. But the problem is the survivability of her structure in a high intensity conflict. The threat of drones and multimission demand of modern warfare. Oz isn't alone. Netherlands are replacing their OPV with smaller LPD and multirole MCM vessel. Same with Portuguese navy, Royal Canadian Navy and Royal Navy. RCN will replace their OPV with corvettes while RN is still assessing the Batch 2 Type 31e frigate but with fewer people.
The small chain gun is more than sufficient for CONSTABLE duties... Many coast guard boats and OPVs use chain guns...
Only good for fisheries patrol
No misiles no main gun totaly usless
Third word countries have better armed ships of that class.not fit for purpose.😢
I hate it that this is true.
nothing is fit for purpose. 47 billion for 6 hunter class frigats with 32 cell vls.. and near peer adversary ect china has tripple that vls count. they just depleat the air efenses then sink them every time.. completely pointless
2 advices:
1st If I am not wrong you never specified which navy Arafura is committed (I had to guess by what marines where wearing)
2nd: if you talk about a ship in a video just show her, I been watching 5 minutes of beaches, marines and helicopters...
Anyway your analysis is pretty good.
Thank Turnbull for selecting a vessel that is trying to replace 4 different platforms which probably means while it’s capable of these things it probably won’t be any good at any of them
Its good at the roles of the current ships, which is all I can really say about it. But it costs about triple the price, and is far bigger, yet lacks any of the capabilities.
The Arafura class will do a great job patrolling the waters around Christmas Island and the Cocos Islands in the RAN's efforts to control their border from illegal immigrants and asylum seekers...
This ship was a great design but totally stuffed up by the Navy and Government from day 1.
Absolutely! Its a tragedy that it failed so badly. We could have had a very capable asset, in a relatively short period of time, but all we got was a bigger cape class.
Arafura should never been chosen as poor weapon layout, no hanger, flight deck can't support Seahawk. Years ago ADF was offering Malaysia OPV, 57mm gun, 8 cell VLS, hanger for Lynx or Seasprite weighing 2000t. This how s#$t kick off as ADF or RAN order 11 Seasprite helicopters these were go on new ANZAC frigates. Well Malaysia went with another offer, OPV was drop n instead dropping Seasprite n getting more Seahawks as RAN had already have Seahawks in service on Adelaide frigates it decided waste over $1 BILLION before dropping Seasprite. Years later instead of going with old design nar Arafura was going be multi purpose OVP, RAN couldn't explain why they drop 40mm gun.
The ship is proven and a great designe, issue is Oz goverand Navy did their usual same with the Anzacs, they got involved and stuffed it up and u derarmed it. Why not just take the proven design, build and arm it how it was designed to be ?
That would be ideal, however, there are some major issues. The first being that its air defence is somewhat lackluster, particularly in the age of modern missiles and drones.
The second is that the ship has been fundamentally changed from its original design, particularly regarding the helicopter deck, which is no longer rated to carry helicopters.
All in all, its a good design, but it has been fiddled around with so much by bureucrats, that it really isn't the source material.
The class has only one use that of drone anti mine warfare ship! The cranes are ideal for shipping the drones & the stern ramp ideal for naval clearance divers! Fitting the 30mm from the minesweepers could also be an option!
We should have gotten the Austal OPV based on the enhanced Cape Class. In the long term we need to transfer the Cape Class from the RAN to Border Force and leave border control and constabulary work to Border Force. The RAN should get corvettes, frigates, destroyers and LHD’s plus specialist vessels like mine hunters and focus on war fighting. Also nuclear subs was a stupid idea as we need subs now: we should immediately get German Type 216S diesel that are being used by Singapore and are special forces capable.
I completely agree with you. Although, id probably ask for the new South Korean Submarines, which can carry ballistic and cruise missiles, which is quite helpful, given our acquisition of Tomahawks.
So where are you getting all the crew for all these ships? We can barely put one collins out to sea at the moment. HMAS Sydney has been stuck at Garden Island for 18 months now for some reason. Some of the anzacs are stuck because we don't have enough crew to operate them. The LHD's take alot of resources and even though we have these new cape classes none of them have a main gun because nobody has thought to take the 25mm cannons off the armidales to put on the new boats. Even the 2 arafura's could have the DS30b's from the Huons seconded on to them. Not sure why nobody has thought to put the old 76mm guns from the old adelaides on to the hobarts to give them some upgraded countrer drone capabilities or even a second phalanx on the back of them as well.
Austral are the worst shipbuilder in Australia, the cape class are rubbish if you don’t believe me come to cairns and look at how many are in the dockyard
How can this be? Can we ever get it right???? Always on the CHEAP!
Scrap it and sue Lursen
An actual photo of the Arafura would have been of great assistance to actually know what you are talking about. There are some videos of the unidentified thing out there, as well.
The thumbnail is literally a picture of the Arafura class.
Please don't mock Australia, actually getting a boat to float is not as easy as it sounds, with any new technology there is always unforeseen outcomes and costings. As for weapons, a Naval patrols boat intercepting perhaps unfriendly armed ships, only needs a low-lit area with coloured disco ball lighting where the crews of the Navy and intercepted hostile ship can sit down and talk about their feels. This is what happens when the military budget is used to support a bureaucracy and not the military.
So who will be invaded with it? New Zealand?
Have you heard of this little country called China?
Hey the Arafura is a patrol boat the cape class are crap to short range Australia’s coast line is to big for crap like the cape class and Armidale class . The cape class are stop gaps nothing more Australia has needed a large long range ocean going patrol vessels for the last forty years if there is seaworthy issues with the Arafura class then the builder need to be questioned, Brunei has operated these vessels without major issues people want these vessels to be something they are not these ships are coast guard ships if you want warships buy warships.
why are we viewing army footage?
Because the video was made almost a year ago now, in some spare time that I had off work. I didn't have any relevant footage at the time, and didn't think that this video would get as much reach or as many views as it did, so I didn't really bother trying to find navy videos.
The whole ADF is a joke.
Yep. One should never ever let their guard down and that is exactly what has been done since the Sydney and Melbourne carriers were decommissioned and never replaced. We should have at least 2 medium sized aircraft carriers in service and each with a cruiser escort.
@@robertaustin6940 Why? Frankly the former Sydney provided much more service to the RAN than the former Melbourne... Do you really think a small light carrier with less than a dozen fighter jets will defeat a much larger fleet carrier with sixty or more fighter jets? Odds are that small light carrier will be sunk quickly... China is building large carriers three times the size of the Canberra class LHDs...
@@ronclark9724 A medium sized carrier can operate up to about 35 aircraft with 24 of them being fighters.
Amphibious vessels with three F-35b each vessel would be the way to go, surface vessel that isn't a aircraft carrier would be defeated by a vessel you could cycle F-35b off the deck to intercept an destroy vessels as a hunting vessel of surface vessel in a war situation
It would be an extremely interesting decision. The main issue with this, would be the required expansion of both our F35 fleets and the procurement of a new vessel that can hold F35s.
Been down this path already. Heck no. Those LHD's are already crew intensive enough without adding F35's to the mix.
I think the best kind of OPV should be in style of the Damen modular OPV, in peace time u need solod gun to blast the pirates and smuglers, and in war time it would be easy to switch modules to other duties like mine laying or anti submarine torpedo pod ex. There fore it wouldt be so expensive and intimidating to foren powers in peace time amd wery usefull in war time
Trust your leaders, mediocrity rules ok.
the sars 6