I came here to say the exact same thing. Of all the tornadoes I've researched, Jarrell chills me to the core. The damage that was done WAS inconceivable! Everything was sandblasted into oblivion, only small fragments were left behind. Rescue workers couldn't even identify if parts of bodies were human or animal. It just sat there on top of double creek estates and blenderized Everything into NOTHING. Inconceivable.
In 1999 Moore Oklahoma experienced a tornado with windspeeds thought to be approximately 20-40 mph greater than even Jarrell! Insane to think of the power of 300+ mph wind speeds!
The NWS won't even admit when a Tornado was an EF5 anymore. Even if an F6 did happen and underground shelters were ripped from the ground, it'd still be classified as an EF4
Here is the problem. The EF scale is used how it is meant to. If there is damage that is not enough to be rated an ef5, than It cannot. A slabbed home does not mean EF 5 damage. Watch June First, it will clear things up for you.
We need a damage scale like we already have as well as a power/force scale, imo. We're getting more and better wind speed data than ever before, having a scale that actually does what people think the EF scale is supposed to do is finally actually feasible for select storms.
@TristanPotkanski-jy9rj El Rino's raiting was justified. It didn't hit anything much and they don't rate tornados by wind speed or size. They rate them by the damage that they produce. I'm sure if it did go through a population centre they would've said it was EF5. Mayfield and Rolling Fork both deserved that EF5 rating though.
@TristanPotkanski-jy9rj Agreed, I know build quality is taken into account, but it really shouldn't be, not to that much of a degree, not every single building is up to the latest code, and they never will be. If a residential building is blown tf away completely, it should be rated EF5, I know there needs to be some building discretion cause of trailer parks and such, but buildings are buildings, period. This soft retiring of the EF5 rating over the last decade or so cause "oh, what it hit wasn't built to current code" is horseshit. These people's houses still got leveled. Now if a strong tonado hit a freshly built town where every single building was up to the latest code and the rest it hit was rural, fine, rate it EF4, or maybe we should bring EF6 into the rating system for these new "up to code" buildings.
Fun Fact: Most scientists claimed that the Tri-State tornado at times had wind speeds the were close to be 320 mph. This means that it would have theoretically warranted an F6. However, there were no formal instruments that were available to physically measure the wind speed in order to confirm that.
Virtually all the information about that tornado is 100% speculation. I don’t take the claims very seriously. All I can say is that it’s all but certain that it was multiple tornados on a similar path, likely from the same supercell. To think there is one tornado from 100 years ago that went on a path 300% longer than the 2nd longest tornado just defies statistics in general.
I can believe that! Tornadoes do ramp up & down, cycle, & I believe that some Multi-Vortex Tornadoes can have internal votices that are EF-5 Winds, which is why you oftentimes see maybe EF-4 & EF-5 damage from the same Tornado. I think that this is a very little researched hypothesis, but I hope to research it more now that I have the time to do so. We're had Super Fogs, Otis, The Super Hurricane, Super Heat & Super Cold, So Why Not Super Vortices Within The Same Tornado?
Considering the range of an EF4 is 166-200mph, if the scale 'was' modified to include an EF6 they'd probably re-rate an EF5 201-250mph so an EF6 would be anything over that... Claiming The Tri-State tornado had 320mph winds is an absurd, childish claim largely romanticizing the folklore. These "scientists" probably also made this claim under the old Fugita scale. Back in 1925 a high end EF-2 or low end EF3 would completely obliterate 99% of the structures in those old farming communities (especially if it was wide like speculated). Sure it was powerful enough but the main reason it did so much damage was it was on the ground for so long.
I don't like that tornadoes are only rated based on the the damage they caused. That leaves out a whole lot of powerful tornadoes that got no rating because they didn't hit anything. That skews the numbers.
@@rollingpingamers2785Sheer size, wind speed, death toll, and damage should all be take into account, and these details should offset other details when other areas are lacking. The El Reno tornado was the largest tornado in history as 2.6 mile wide tornado, but was merely given a EF3 rating on the basis that it didn’t hit a lot and only produced some damage. Yet the size, wind speed and death toll wasn’t taken as heavily into account by the NWS which is absurd.
@wwjccsd wind speed does play a big factor. If winds exceed 157 mph it's a Cat 5. Honestly the categories need to increase because Hurricane Andrew and Harvey were both Cat 5 but Harvey was almost 2x as large
Yeah, the tornado rating map is basically a population density map and the way the f5 designation is gatekept instead of simply adding a new f6 designation to take into account the building codes fails to consider the original meaning of such a scale. We quickly see the whole ratings system becomes meaningless due to the sheer number of variables. If the land is equally populated and we can guarantee that all structures are built to spec then I could see how damage can be used to rate tornadoes. A better system for hurricanes was developed when we were able to assess pressure differences. Since the tornado scale was developed before we can accurately determine speed and AOE 🎮 of these violent storms, I can see these changes following a similar path.
Y'all are getting really creative with your videos the last few months and I love it. You, Swegle, High Risk Chris, and June First have been knocking it out of the park digging deeper into the darker, less explored corners of extreme weather. The elasticity of the F/EF scale is weird. I'd bet half of the tornadoes rated F5 back in the day would have far different ratings today.
Thank you so much, they are all so wonderful in their own unique ways!! It's SUCH a fascinating topic to explore. I love seeing everyone's different backgrounds coming through on the topic too
I wonder if there'd be a chance of a collab with those creators in the future. It'd be interesting seeing you all talk about tornadoes together.@@carlyannawx
An EF6 tornado would need to level well design reinforced concrete buildings, I think. It would also be able to level entire blocks of well engineered masonry+reinforced concrete buildings. One tornado that approached that, and is seldom talked about is the San Justo tornado. Here in South America, the use of reinforced concrete blocks in the columns of the construction is extensive. Usually the steel bars of these blocks goes all the way down to the foundation. So for a tornado to level entire blocks of this construction type, like what happened in San Justo, it would need to be in the upper echelon of the scale.
wow, i've never heard of this tornado and just looked it up. thank you for informing us all. from the stuff i've seen already it sounds like a behemoth of a tornado. it's a shame that tornadoes outside of the us typically get so little attention because the san justo event seems to be on par with the worst of the american ones. when ted fujita calls it the worst tornado damage he'd seen outside of america, you know it's bad...
@@Staarchild97 If you have descent Spanish, I would highly recommend you watch a little documentary here on UA-cam that interviewed Survivors of this tornado. One of the witnesses described the tornado touchdown as the sound of a thousand locomotive breaks squeal.
A 7-minute tornado that wound up causing such extreme damage. Now that is crazy, especially since most violent to catastrophic tornadoes are long-tracked. Looked like it was a massive yet violent stovepipe.
The problem with the Fujita scale is its using human controlled variables and judgements instead of more concrete, measurable data. An "eF-12" could hit a corn field and since are no structures be rated an eF-2. That's just tainting the data and hurting the science.
That's still measurable and objective data. The problem is the system isn't fleshed out enough and leads to personal judgement. It is also a measurement type that is easier to dispute, and is a type where companies may have a significant reason to bias the data lower. Think insurance companies, who would need to pay out more money for EF5 rated damage than they would for EF4 rated damage. One of the most major issues is that scientists and civilians have completely different ideas of what the scale quantifies. The EF system is meant to quantify damage to human infrastructure, not windspeed.
@cook1ezz okay what is the goal of the EF scale? Is it not to approximate the most accurate 3 second gust speed based on the damage indicators? If it's exclusively a damage to infrastructure scale, why bother having any wind speed correlations whatsoever? If it really is just a scientist vs layperson misunderstanding of purpose, I'd argue the onis is on bodies like the NWS to succinctly, and more consistently clarify its function. Also, as far as insurance risk contracts go, the payout is not really going to be affected by the official EF determination. It's to pay out whatever the cost to restore your property to its pre-loss state upto a maximum of your properties total actual value.
@@AlKohaiMusic The wind speeds are not the main purpose of the scale. They are just there to explain what wind speeds are capable of causing the observed damage. Per the official NWS website: "The Fujita (F) Scale was originally developed by Dr. Tetsuya Theodore Fujita to estimate tornado wind speeds based on damage left behind by a tornado. An Enhanced Fujita (EF) Scale, developed by a forum of nationally renowned meteorologists and wind engineers, makes improvements to the original F scale. This EF Scale has replaced the original F scale, which has been used to assign tornado ratings since 1971." Wikipedia definition: "The Enhanced Fujita scale (abbreviated as EF-Scale) rates tornado intensity based on the severity of the damage they cause." They explicitly exclude Doppler measurements and other ways of measuring the wind speed, since the scale is first and foremost based on damage. They explain it pretty succinctly, but people who aren't the NWS usually aren't clear in their explanations. The insurance thing is something I've seen reputable storm chasers echo, personally I have no idea if it's true or not.
@@AlKohaiMusic I can understand your argument. I'm not necessarily saying we ditch the ef scale, but I think we need an additional rating system that looks at the tornado and atmosphere directly. Such a scale would help the study and science and put focus on storms that may be entirely overlooked now because of a low ef rating.
As someone who is a survivor of a F5 tornado (Barneveld, WI, June 9th 1984) .. Paralyzed and lost both parents n sister in it. Before i was even 2 yrs old. (i'm 41 now). I love your Embrace Chaos sticker. I got a "memorial" tattoo on my shoulder of the tornado, and i have my parents n sisters name floating around as "debris" in the storm. And even tho i didnt have the $ to get my tattoo finished at the time... I eventually wanted to add like a beautiful coloirful sunset in the background of the tornado destroying everything.. Cuz i wanted it to be symbolic... That there can still be beauty among the chaos. So i love that slogan "embrace chaos". :)
Allow me to get on my soapbox for a moment lol. The problem is that what we have is a damage based scale that is used to estimate wind speed. If a tornado with 300mph winds is in a open field, or if it hits structures that were poorly constructed, we simply cannot accurately estimate wind speeds past the point where these structures are destroyed. We've quite literally seen this in action. Tornadoes like West Kentucky or Rolling Fork very possibly had no structures in their path that could verify EF5. It's like having a cop with a radar gun that maxes out at 65. 100MPH still just says 65. The thing that irks me is that with tornadoes like El Reno 2013 we *have* wind speed measurements that are simply ignored in favor of damage *estimates*. IMO, what we need to know is how strong these storms actually are and right now I'm not sure how many people would argue we're doing a great job of figuring that out. So many inconsistencies and contingencies. We've seen tornadoes to loops and hit the same structure twice. We've seen tornadoes stall and sit on one spot for minutes. We must decide what is important; damage caused or strength of the storm and therefore hypothetical damage. To me, only focusing on damage caused misses the point a bit. If you live in OK and were nearly missed by several massive tornadoes it wouldn't make sense for you to assume "it didn't hit me, it must not have been a big deal." No, the potential is there and you should prepare accordingly. "Yeah, that town over got hit by a tornado, but it was only an ef3, so we don't need to build out houses to withstand ef5." Except it could have had winds exceeding EF5 and we act like it didn't because we're focused on using damage to estimates things we can actually occasionally measure.
A few issues with that argument 1. It is nearly impossible to build a building that could withstand an EF5 tornado, the only structures that could would be large stone buildings or skyscrapers, and even then they’d would still receive significant damage. The problem is that the US Midwest/Southeast has a massive variety of build quality, and unfortunately most of it is not the best. If a tornado hits a house that is not well built, it would cause the same level of damage to it no matter if it was a EF3 or EF5, thus making it impossible to tell the strength of the tornado as it hit that house. Thats the reason why the EF scale takes build quality into account, because a well built home would not receive the same level of damage from an EF3 as a poorly built one. 2. Relying solely on wind speed is not the best idea because it is extremely hard to measure precisely what speed wind is from second to second, and it fluctuates wildly. Thats why an EF rating is more of an average of wind speed at the time because that is more accurate than changing the rating from second to second if say the wind speed is right on the border between one of the levels. In time as technology for measuring wind gets better, maybe wind will be a more important factor than damage, but as of now, damage is what we can much more accurately measure.
@@sjeasonEven then. It would make more sense to use the tools we have to the ever improving technology to measure the speed of the wind, and to measure the diameter of the tornado for the rating of tornados. The F(or EF) scale is still useful to a degree to be alongside an objective measurement. He has a point that going off damage is a more relative measurement, even if you factor in how a building is constructed(if conditions and materials are perfect and we factor in modern advances in the materials), than it would be to take actual measurements of the storm. The storms do vary quite a lot, even within its own system, but taking the average like we do for the F scale can still be applied to a new scale based on wind speed and diameter of the storm's tornado/s.
Would be nice to have a revision of the EF scale again. To factor in not just damage indicators but also wind speed, size and atmospheric conditions. It's fair to claim there have been some potential whiffs between the EF4 and the EF5 rating that tornados get. Mayfield, Tuscaloosa, Rochelle, El Reno, etc. And not only a revision but a review of these "controversial" ratings. Another wonderful video!!
there is one coming, I think sometime in the next two years or so (according to Tim Marshall). But I agree, it's just so lacking as it is now, but I think the issue is that outside of the Reed Timmers and Tim Samaras types, nobody is really getting tornado data -- actual raw data. It's pretty frustrating to know that there's still a lot of uncertainty, and I think with the really wild Otis rapid intensification that models didn't predict-- it feels like a wake up call that we still have so much to learn!
honestly, people get way too hung up on the rating, the difference between a high end EF4 and a low end EF5 is minute, and I think it shows incredibly hubris how so many people that have no experience in the field and have never even taken part in a damage survey feel incredibly confident in saying that professionals with years of study and experience got it wrong. Not that there aren't issues with the scale, but people trying to claim "X tornado should have been an EF5" is IMHO beyond stupid and its people turning these events that destroyed peoples lives into mere disaster porn.
@@carlyannawx Yes, Otis caught everyone flatfooted and it should be a wake-up call. Now, I'm more interested in tornadoes than I am in hurricanes, precisely because it is extremely unlikely a full-scale hurricane is ever going to hit Michigan where I live. (Never say never, though). I did some comparisons and wind-speed wise, Cat 5 Otis would be a high-end EF3 though the damage would of course be MUCH higher. I recently heard of a hurricane (Patricia) with winds in the EF5 range (300 mph+) which I did not think was possible; I'm going to have to look into that one some more. The biggest flaw in the F/EF scale as compared to the Saffir-Simpson scale is that it is based on damage, whereas the SS scale is based on windspeeds. Imagine rating hurricanes using EF scale criteria. We'd get an entirely different picture. Now I realize I'm comparing apples and oranges here. But if your "inconceivable EF6" takes place out in the middle of nowhere where there is nothing to hit, how do you then rate it? If you are going primarily by damage indicators, then ALL tornadoes that took place prior to widespread settlement of the Great Plains were EF0-EF1 regardless of size or wind speed because there was nothing permanent for them to destroy. Just scattered villages of nomadic Native Americans who were no doubt well aware of these storms and how to avoid them. A related flaw in the F/EF scale is that it, for lack of a better term, is North America-centric. It is based on building standards and codes that are widely used in North America but are not necessarily used in other parts of the world. We don't think about tornadoes happening outside the United States/Canada, but other places DO get them, notably Bangladesh, which holds the record for the most fatalities from a single tornado. I would like to see tornado rating scales move away from being primarily damage-based after the fact. While Otis' rapid intensification did catch everyone by surprise, people knew that there was a tropical storm with hurricane potential out there. It was just that the data suggested Cat 1. Currently we have no real equivalent system in place for supercells and tornadoes.
Any revision needs to take into account documentable wind speed measurements, either from doppler or possibly any wind instruments that actually survive... the concept of an EF 4 or 5 getting a EF-0 rating simply because it was in open country without visible signs of destruction is ludicris!
Carly, I have shared with you before that I am a Surviver of The 1974, Xenia Ohio Tornado when I was 11 years old. Since I have shared my story before, I won't go through it again. But it was a life-altering experience for me. I DO have PTSD from that experience even though I earned my Ph.D. in Meteorology, & I've worked as a Television Meteorologist on several occasions & I have chased Tornadoes for Scientific Research a Number Of Times!However, during most of my Career, I've been an Airline Captain. Obviously, the two careers intersect in many ways. I have recently retired from The Airlines, I worked 20 years longer than I had to in order to retire! I did work in Television too, during that time, but now I want to chase Tornados. I did catch The Distinction that you have in your Title, The Inconceivable "F-6", as opposed to The "EF-6," & of course, as a Meteorologist, I used The Old "F-Scale" for years. I even attended a Seminar in which Dr. Ted Fujita was The Keynote Speaker. I knew back in 1974 that he'd initially rated The Xenia Ohio Tornado as an F-6. Even now, if you Google The Windspeed Of The Xenia Ohio Tornado, it says 340-360 mph. I believe it! It slid my Dad & me on the hardwood floor of our foyer, & my Mother was standing up when it hit, it blew her down, & slid her underneath her beloved Baby Grand Piano, which was untouched by The Tornado, but everything else was completely destroyed and blown to parts unknown! We lived on the Southwest Side Of Town & we all stood up & watched it bulldoze through The Town! I mainly have Sleep Disturbances now, but I DO have flashbacks when I hear Thunder sometimes. I'm a lot better than I used to be. I learned to fight back a lot of my PTSD Symptoms as a Pilot. I was flying a DC-9/MD-80 Stretch Series Commercial Airliner from Philadelphia to Atlanta once & I had to Vector Around some very Severe Thunderstorms, as ATC was trying to get us on the Runway before The Squall Line hit The Airport. We made it by the skin of our teeth. I was still Reversing Thrust & You know how noisy that is, but we could actually hear a clap of Thunder over The Noise Of Our Thrust Reversal. Just after that, it began to rain & hail so hard that I couldn't see how to taxi the aircraft & I was clear of The Runway, on The Taxiway, but no one else could land until that storm passed. It dropped large hail, & I couldn't believe that we had just been up there whipping around those storms! We did train how to keep Airplanes Airborne during Micro-Bursts before we got Doppler Radars mounted in The Nose Cones of All Airliners! I took off from Kansas City once on the way to New York & I spotted a Tornado Down North Of The Airport. I reported it to ATC & it resulted in a Tornado Warning! But I was moving away from it & a lot faster than it was. I have stories from a remarkable lifetime, partly due to having been in The April 3rd, 1974 Xenia F-5, but also my Dad was a WWII U.S. Army Air Corps Combat Pilot over Europe, I grew up going flying with my Dad every Sunday Afternoon. Cool Video!
@@AmyraCarter 😆 Yes, it was just that way! It actually protected my Mother from falling debris! We always said that "G-d Must've Sent A Thousand Angels To Protect Us That Day."
The fundamental flaw with the EF scale, as applied, is that a tool that was supposed to provide 1:1 mapping to the original Fujita scale, to allow for comparative analysis over time, is now being held to standards that are a great deal higher than the standards Ted Fujita was devising his scale around. Surveyors are now downrating damage based on the lack of anchoring techniques that hadn't even been invented when Fujita died; as a result, damage that Fujita would have deemed an F5 is being dismissed and downrated as EF4 or even EF3 because "it wasn't a well-built, properly anchored building." (This is above and beyond the stuff that helps lead to claims of a conspiracy to downrate damage to appease the insurance industry, like the case of a well-built, properly anchored home being slabbed and swept away... but rated as EF3 because a single shrub next to the house was still present afterwards, because of the "context clue" of the shrub and no other homes having such severe damage.) In essence, the scale is being misapplied, with the standards required for a DI to be accepted increasing over time rather than being held consistent to allow for apples-to-apples comparisons. Realistically, the standards being required to qualify for an EF5 rating today are high enough that they *should* be assigned to a hypothetical EF6 rating, as the buildings are of such superior construction compared to when F5/EF5 damage was defined that it can't be seen as truly comparable any more. Any update to the scale that doesn't take this issue into account, and specifies the actual construction standards for EF5 damage in unambiguous terms (no more "well-constructed, properly anchored" phrases that allow for standards creep) will be as flawed as the current system, and continue to significantly underrate high-end damage and thus cause a false sense of security that "tornadoes are getting weaker."
The last sentence is something very important that I have noticed among the general population when the discussion of tornados comes up. As we know, most people aren’t in the path of constant tornados. They affect a certain percentage of the US as a whole, with one part of the country being real prominent for them in comparison to others … but most just go by what they see being reported and take the ratings they’re given at face value. Some of the views I’ve heard have had that same exact thought process: “well, I don’t see tornados getting EF5 ratings like they used to decades ago, that kinda’ proves their damage and speeds are going down over time.” … like they should be feared less or something. No surprise a lot of that is also picked up and pushed by the types that believe global warming is considered a total lie made up by the government and that the weather all around the world is also being controlled by them. They’ll point to the EF ratings as proof that things are not as extreme anymore as the government claims (while ignoring how the system is used by them … yea, the crazy stuff I’ve come across on Facebook is wild lol).
generally I have always been of the opinion that the EF scale makes sense because EF5 is just total destruction and you cant get worse than structures being completely gone, but you have made such insanely good points with how the scale doesn't account for the advancement in technology when building structures. It never crossed my mind that many of our EF3s and EF4s could have very well been EF5s if buildings were still built the same as before. This is something I'll seriously have to ponder over now for a good while.
I know that last part is very true. I can from Texas and was around in the 90’s. I also traveled through the area of the last big super outbreak in 2011. To hear people dismiss or downplay it when I got out of areas hit by them.
I love the fact that your new brand is focusing on two things I also think highly of as well considering I have PTSD, Depression and Anxiety too. I often use weather videos mainly watching news coverage of my favorite tornadoes (May 3rd 1999, Pilger Twins, The Super Outbreak 2011) so on my next pay day I will absolutely buy something to give back to you and help your brand out! I was actually watching a similar video documenting the strongest tornadoes ever and Xenia was one that Mr Fujita himself recognised as the strongest candidate for an F6 and in my opinion closely followed by Jarrell and Bridge Creek F5s
The PTSD and anxiety are so important to me, and I know a lot of other people are the same way. You are always so kind. The idea of the F6 is the kind of tornado lore that we all love and are so fascinated with, I was so happy to explore the topic just a bit
@@carlyannawx Thank you Carly, your videos have helped massively too, I was watching the Hackleburg EF5 and the Bridge Creek F5 just the other day when i was having a bad day. I love the topic because it can spark so many different potential tornadoes that can fall into that category and what needs to be done to be classed as an EF6
Carly, you hit on something huge. I love storms, but have chronic anxiety, too. I had PTSD symptoms from a couple near misses as a kid. “Two Storms” is a brilliant name!
You also ahve to account for the direction it was moving and how slow it moved. It moved southwest and at under 10 mph at times. Both were exceedingly rare then, even more so now. It was just an extremely rare tornado all around. Yes, I do agree that its development and rotational speeds were phenomenal, but it also stayed over Double Creek Estates for several minutes.
@@UahUahUah The level of ground scouring and debris granulation was IMO the most remarkable ever. Slow moving or not, the level of damage is probably the closest to EF6 that I can think of. I am saying this as an amateur tho, so feel free to take it with a grain of salt
@@5roundsrapid263It shouldn't because it was really slow tornado that hovered in same area for about few minutes. That main reason why we seen everything destroyed in that manner.
@@BiG-JuPO1O1it still produced phenomenal damage of a degree that outperformed other F5s. For example, throwing vehicles not just hundreds to thousands of yards, but destroying them to a degree they were not recognizable. Also scouring 300 yards of concrete off of a road, and excavating the ground to a depth of 18+ inches. It granulated the debris so finely it looked like there was nothing left. Hence my argument.
Tornado: **Rips underground cellars out of the ground, destroys even below the foundations of homes, sucks water towers out of the ground, throws around skyscrapers** The National Weather Service: Best I can do is EF-4. And I’m taking a *BIG* risk.
Given that we now can get accurate readings of windspeed and pressure drops from inside tornadoes, I feel that we should have two scales: the ef scale to measure actual damage and impact to communities, and a second scale which accounts for the tornado's potential and measured strength. As it is now, we could see the world's most powerful tornado be rated ef0 if it only goes through a field.
For me, it was the 99 Moore tornado that took the cake. Absolutely mind-blowing that a cyclone the size of a town could have 300-340 + - mph wind speeds. The highest wind speeds recorded globally since records began to be taken. However, something that has fascinated me recently is infrasound created by high-powered wind hitting a mountaintop in a way that turns it into a mountain-sized whistle! The Dyatlov Pass incident is thought to have been caused by this phenomenon, and ever since I have looked into it it's something that truly is terrifying to me!
Jarrell Tornado didn’t have wind speed measured, but there was damage done that experts have NEVER seen. There are still trenches randomly dug into the ground to this day, that they have purposely left there to remember it (I’ve visited the site…I lived a couple hours away in Houston.)
That's pretty crazy, I'll have to look into that to see some of the pictures of the damage caused. My comment was mainly just to encourage those interested to look into infrasonic sound caused by mountains. @@strongestnattyever-videos2247
Just to clarify that Cyclones are similar storms to Hurricanes and Typhoons. Tornados(or more specifically the Supercell Thunderstorms that spawn them) and Cyclones are not the same thing
The 1953 Adair Iowa F5 was at the upper end of that scale, but because of lack of technology and limited photographic evidence it will remain a mystery...
I wouldn't say its a disappearance, just a blatant refusal of NWS surveyors assigning EF5 ratings to tornados. Even if a damage indicator is 'Well built home - slab swept clean.'
the reason there are fewer and fewer EF5's is because they are intentionally giving tornados false ratings to avoid the EF5 rating. thats why EF3's and EF4's have skyrocketed in number and why EF5's suddenly stopped happening.
Carly, in an article on the Moore outbreak of 1999 in the NWS Magazine Weather Wise, there was a mention of another twister that same afternoon tat passed north of Oklahoma City around Mulhall and Orlando OK that was measured by a mobile Doppler of having quite likely entered F-06 territory. The fact that it stayed almost entirely over crop and pasture land kept it from ever getting much consideration.
EF4 and EF 5 tornados fascinate me. The small town of Wyatt Indiana was wiped out by an EF 4 and possibly a weak EF5 during the Palm Sunday outbreak of 1965.. The only structure to survive was the grain elevator because its solid concrete. It survives to this day!
@@peterolbrisch8970The term “weak” EF5 means a low-end EF5, like on the border between EF4 and EF5. Also, what in the world does the jumbo shrimp comment have to do with ANYTHING??
Look up Hamtramck Michigan storms of 1997. There was so much debate on if it was a tornado or stightline winds. If I remember correctly it was decided it was stightline winds. It was devastrghting
I'm so glad you are going to do a video on the Lubbock, TX tornado. I lived in Lubbock then, in 11th grade. The next morning my father and I drove out to the airport to see if his airplane had been damaged. OMG!! Planes turned into modern art sculpture! Later, my friend and I drove all over, looking at damage, including the country club area, where the tornado was F5 (or F6??) Again, OMG! All the houses were wiped off their foundations and I was driving over walls and roof parts in the streets.
Wow you've got a beautiful setup. And as someone who got on an anti-depressant in my late 30s that changed my life for the better in ways I could never have imagined, I appreciate you a lot.
Same here. I just found out what childhood emotional neglect was; maybe I’m depressed, or maybe it was that, or maybe both. Meds help a little, but talk therapy isn’t as good as I thought it’d be. No lie, I think UA-camrs have been more helpful. Therapists listen, but that’s about it. I think I’m better off talking to my stuffed animals and watching YT. It’s working so far. I get a tad bit of storm anxiety; we get more hurricanes here in North Carolina and they’re obviously different and so are the concerns, but I wouldn’t let my fear of tornadoes put me off of living in the Midwest. We went to a cousin’s wedding out in Lawrence, Kansas, and the road trip there was full of friendly people and beautiful land. Gotta get off the Interstate to see it, if time allows for a longer trip. Of course, when I was curious about Lawrence before going and did a YT search, the very first search result was the EF4 tornado that passed by there in 2019.
The biggest flaw in the system is tornadoes are rated after the fact not DURING. People need to know an F4 or F5 is barreling down upon them. The film Twister had the rating system we need.
The rating system has Tornado Warning, Tornado Warning Observed, Tornado Emergency. If a person needs more than this they aren't getting to safety anyway. If a person ignores Tornado emergency, they aren't responding to F4.
Ummm its not easy to know its an EF 5 while it’s happening 😂 you gotta have people actually drop probes and shit to get accruate wind speed’s during the nado😂 also movies are great but twister is far far far from realistic 😂
I dreamt about tornadoes a lot when I was a kid, crazy childhood is what the dream people say and I did have a crazy childhood. I’ve always been fascinated with tornadoes
Young brazen US storm chasers in the early days of UA-cam, with their combination of solid scientific knowledge, talent for storytelling and a passion to express it all, formed my life in all ways. It gave me the curiosity for the world around us, how it all is connected, and made me a pretty successful science journalist. Your channel, and your style of presenting, will surely inspire many more to come. Thank you for taking on the torch and continuing on!
I am a firm believer that if Bridge Creek didn't go around downtown okc and instead hit it, I truly believe THAT would be the definitive F6 tornado. No contest. The amount of death and destruction would be unfathomable, the horrors of the world's most violent tornado destroying a dense major population center. Moore and Bridge Creek were used to tornadoes and had shelters and preparations. A lot of OKC did not have storm shelters until that close call they had. That and the traffic that was awaiting their death sitting on the hallway, it would just be horrific. People leaving their city only to get swallowed.
Yeah, tornadoes have many intricacies that we still don't understand. For example, once I watched here on UA-cam a fascinating video of a suction vortex producing a sonic boom as the tornado was dissipating. One of the most mind boggling moments ever captured on camera!
I remember reading somewhere that the 1995 Pampa tornado was thought to be an F6 by someone, but couldn’t remember who. Mr. Grazulis is an absolute tornado authority and definitely has a solid theory on this one; good work digging that up. I definitely remember that tornado; it was all over cable TV documentaries that I grew up watching in the ‘90s. The ease with which it tossed large vehicles was incredible.
One thing's clear from all this, Carly - we need a reliable way to measure tornado wind speed directly, and to do that, we need to greatly reduce the false positive rate of tornado warnings... which in turn implies we need to get better at detecting tornadoes by learning more about them. What you're doing directly advances this last cause! Keep it up!
If the tri state tornado happened tomorrow it would be rated a high end EF4. if the jarrel tornado happened tomorrow it would also be rated an EF4. I’m scared to think of what kind of damage a tornado would have to do to earn an EF5 rating nowadays.
Nope… Jarrell would be the highest level of EF5, no matter what year it happens. I just moved from Houston. I lived 2 hours away from Jarrell, so I made the trip there just to see where the tornado hit. There are small pictures/memory boards for people who died there…anyway, the Jarrell tornado left actual trenches that are still there to this day. The tornado literally ripped the ground out…. Dirt and grass….2 feet out of the ground. There wasn’t a wind speed measured, but multiple experts have estimated by the damage that it would’ve been the world record. Through DNA testing, they even found human skin granules mixed into the terrain (look it up)… that tornado was literally evaporating flesh. Terrifying.
@@user-wi9hv2pb2qbc the damage is what matters, bc what goes on at the ground is what kills people. They aren’t rating tornadoes to decide which was the biggest and baddest in the land.
I was 4 years old during that 1995 outbreak. It was the first experience with severe weather I had ever had. The whole day prior to the tornados touching down is a blur until I woke up from nap from my babysitters. I was thee until my father picked me up a little after 3. I remember looking outside and it was nothing but ugly green clouds. Funny, didn't know the sky could be emerald green. I remember he picked me up in a bit of a panic, kept driving erratic and when got home the power was out, lightning had struck our house and fried the most of the electronics within the place. We needed to take our pup to the vet and when we opened the garage door to go outside hail had started. Funny...didn't know ice the size of golf balls or bigger could fall from the sky!?!? Soon we are in the truck and due to it having no ac it was humid. It was at a red light however things changed near the north side of town. It was there the torrential rain and hail stopped. Everything stopped. It was the wildest thing I've ever experienced. It was like you couldn't even breath. I heard a whirling sound and asked my dad what that was. He rolled down his window and looked up. And that was the next funny thing, I heard the f word for the first time that day. Three funnels where developing right on top of us and we could see the monster tornado to our west. From there the memory is a panic whirl to get my mother from the little office she was working at and while we where there one of the bigger tornadoes one of the f2s was barreling down the road towards us a good 3 to four miles away but still to my little mind it looked like an angry cloud of dust. We eventually all took shelter underground at the court house and rode out the storm. From there my obsession with tornadoes began.
Dr Fujita toyed around w/ assigning an F6 rating to the April 1977 Smithfield (Birmingham), AL tornado. The same system spawning the Smithfield tornado also contributed to the fatal crash of Southern Flight 242 in New Hope, GA; just outside of Atlanta
Your music choices for these videos are always on point. I almost feel like Tesseract was *made* for tornado videos, especially 90's era videos and news coverage. I can't really explain it, but it's just got that feel. 😁😁
Watching this after a very disappointing college class so I can regain lost IQ points. You are so much more informative, educational, and well-spoken compared to both of my classes this semester just fyi. Love your videos!
I live in southern Missouri in the branson area. I love this channel. Tornadoes scare the hell out of me,regardless they also fascinate me. Thank you for providing these videos.
When I was much younger, I attempted to write a book about an F6 tornado, but I ended up ditching the concept when the new Fujita scale came out. I did eventually write a book about tornadoes, and am working on two sequels to it. Sometimes though, I still think about going back and doing an alternate history style book featuring an F6 tornado.
Let me start off by saying this is the first video I've seen of yours, however, I absolutely love the concept of 2 storms. As a avid weather lover, I too know the struggles of mental health, and I just think the idea and concept are absolutely amazing. Keep doing what you're doing!!!!
I’ve never really understood why we don’t actually classify Non destructive tornadoes. You’d think that they’re still important for the information gathered for purpose of furthering research. Wind speed throughout the life of a tornado, directional behavior as well as its size do matter. Even if it destroys nothing but dirt.
Wait. I'm SHOOK right now. I JUST stumbled across and watched your Parkersburg tornado vid and was debating checking out other vids you have but almost chose to move on. You see, I was originally going to search for something like, "What if there was an F6 tornado/can one exist/what would one be like" and so on. But something told me to go check your vids out. And omg what, but this was the VERY FIRST ONE that showed on your main page. I'm about to watch it right now, and I just subbed to you before writing this. I figured you'd enjoy this little 'story' of mine. :)
Have you ever seen the EAS Scenario, "EF6"? It's probably one of the best I've perused. ... I approve of heightened mental health awareness, as I am autistic and anti-ableist.
You are one of those people with an infectious energy when you are excited and i think it's awesome that you have launched the Two Storma brand. Congratulations!
I often see incredibly Terrifying Tornadoes in my Dreams. Often driving or Walking on top of a Hill…looking out onto the land to see A Horizon full of Tornadoes. Some of them bigger than what the mind could conceive in real life…:always an eerie experience to wake up from.
That honestly sounds about right, for the video I read that he was like decades into his career before even seeing a tornado and they had a party to celebrate
Usually a tornado won't be rated an EF5 even it slabs a home from the exact reasons: 1. The foundation. A house that has iron-bars anchors as well educed nails that are straight and aren't 90 degrees benched, the foundation is considered weaker. Thus the rating goes for an EF4 tornado. Ofc the ''EF5 drought" still goes on. We haven't seen a confirmed EF5 in terms of damage. Doesn't really mean it didn't happen. We had multiple tornadoes surpassing 200< mph. Including the Greenfield tornado where in the middle of funnel winds were up to 250mph from Doppler radar scans and higher near the meso up to 290mph. The drought refers, a tornado didn't hit any structure well cemented and founded to cause EF5 damage. But yes. I would agree the EF scale needs re-working but the NWS said they already re-working on it. In couple of years we could see more damage details be added to it.
Every once in a while, you’ll hear about *exceptional* damage that makes you go 🧐. For example, one of the EF5s during the April 2011 outbreak in Alabama scoured 2’ deep into the ground while moving at 60mph. That means within a matter of seconds, it did the type of damage that crawling EF5s normally do. I know that there are geological factors when it comes to ground scouring…different types of soil, rock, moisture content, etc. But even still…that kind of power is the stuff that, in my mind, would be left behind by a theoretical, thought experiment type EF6.
Awesome. Thank you for the work you do Carly, it means a lot to a lot of of us. And its not going to be too long before the Fujita scale is going to be obsolete and replaced with something that is used to confuse the civilian population. Too many people have been made aware of the new direction that POLITICS are taking every government institution, including NOAA and the NWS, which is not a good direction.
How to fast forward through five minutes of introduction just to get to the actual Tornado part! The first two minutes of the video I thought it was a commercial about something else and I almost changed it!
For an F6 rating to be a real thing, damage would have to be of the most extreme proportions, such as very well constructed heavy duty government buildings and skyscrapers getting swept clean and with residential homes, the concrete slab foundation of a home getting yanked out of the ground and thrown a considerable distance while also scouring everything around it severely. Perhaps the closest thing to an F6 in existence for the time being is the great red spot of Jupiter? The thing has speeds of up to 580 mph.
Carly I just want to say how much I love your content and how much I am enjoying seeing your platform and now small business growing, You've definitely helped resparked my passion for weather and partially inspired me to try to pursue Storm chasing. Thank you your videos are incredible
There's been a lot of debate in various places like reddit concerning the Enhanced Fujita Scale. Reading and participating in discussions about this has been very interesting. Unfortunately, like any other debate, it can get pretty heated. People see homes and other structures that are damaged beyond recognition, with anchor bolts bent and misshapen from the winds, and then see the tornado receive an EF4 or even EF3 rating, and they wonder how on Earth the surveyors can consciously say "There's no way this indicates EF5 damage." Some people even go as far as to insist there's an intentional refusal to give the EF5 rating because of pressure from FEMA and insurance companies who don't want to pay out or use resources that would be required to provide relief and such to victims of a storm. Personally, I think it's a ridiculous notion and I think the EF scale goes to show how little we really know about how tornadoes work. The means that they have to survey damage is more specific now, but it's still mostly the same as it's been since the conception of the Fujita scale; analyzing damage. Concerning the mythical F6, a lot of people have opinions for that as well. The main tornadoes I hear/read about being possible F6's are the 1997 Jarrell Tornado (about as close to "inconceivable damage" as you can get, really), the 1999 Moore, OK Tornado (the windspeeds were clocked at the cap for F5 before the instruments measuring it were destroyed), and the 2011 Hackleburg-Phil Campbell tornado (damage comparable to Jarrell).
I like that you led with Fred Stewart's iconic photograph of the 3April74 Xenia tornado! He was the public information officer at Greene Memorial Hospital and took the shot from the NE stairwell as the tornado swept through the Pinecrest Gardens subdivision on the NE side of Xenia just before it exited town. I was watching it from five miles west of town perched on my bicycle drenched by rain and bruised by hail while out on my paper route delivering the Xenia Daily Gazette. I was 12.
Probably will lever get ef6. Even if a tornado has the wind speeds of a nuclear bomb and wipes a skyscraper clean to its foundation it’ll be classified an ef5. “Nothing left? ef5”
Carly, thank you for a very well thought out and beautifully presented video. I'm originally from NJ where we might get an average of 3 weaker tornadoes per year, but there have been storms as high as EF3 in the not so distant past. I've relocated to AR nearly 8 years ago, and although I've always been terrified of tornadoes (thank you, Wizard of Oz!), I've been trying to overcome my phobia by attempting to learn as much as I can about them. Your videos make it easy for me to do that. Keep up the great work! 👍🏻
Carly I love your new brand ideas as I have all three: PTSD, Anxiety and Depression! I’m seeing a therapist for all three and currently taking brand name Zoloft 200mg per day. Thanks for your tornado 🌪 videos especially Jarrell, Moore, Joplin, Phil Campbell/Hackleburg, and Mayfield! Keep up the great work! Looking forward to being a Patreon helper as well! Have a good day! Please pet Blaze for me! ❤️ 🐈
I’m also on Zoloft. A lot of people say it makes you more aggressive, but it did the total opposite for me. I used to have such a short temper, not anymore.
You might want to examine the 1974 tornado, that went from Saylor park, to Xenia Ohio tornado. I remember the wind gauge at the Lunken airport being broken at 340 mph. Technically, an "F6". Asphalt was scoured from roads, and highways. I saw the pictures. Yes, I lived about 30 miles from it.
My dad told me a story of a tornado that ripped through our neighborhood back in the early 70’s. This tornado wasn’t noticed by anyone and it only took a couple barns but it intensified when it hit a paved road and according to my dad and all the neighbors it ripped up the pavement on this paved road and rolled it like a pretzel. I mentioned this to someone from Oklahoma and he said that tornado should have been an F5 for doing that.
2013 El Reno based on mobile doppler, behavior, forward speed of some of the suction vortices, and overall diameter of wind field. I'd say that was inconcievable
As a meteorologist specializing in tornado field research & engineering for 35 yrs, I think you did a good job asking the right questions about the validity of the current EF scale. However, this topic is beyond the scope of meteorology and is better quantified by advanced physics, engineering (civil, structural, aeronautical), & material science. Doppler radar is good for mesoscale analysis, but is very basic & isn't capable of collecting/rendering what's going on inside major F/EF5+ tornadoes & why such extreme damage has been documented with these rare storms. A growing number in the engineering fields believe an updated F scale should be used that includes an F6+ rating. Firstly, mobile homes and trees should never be used in assessing a storms' strength - most won't make it past an F/EF2 - next, homes (even well-built), plazas, strip malls, farms won't survive a direct hit by an F/EF3 - next, structures built using a combination of reinforced brick, foundation block, concrete/steel will hold up better into an F/EF4 (depending on debris loads, surface area, & time) - next, with F/EF5 almost everything is swept away even in cities, but with a 5+ to 6 storm, damage/debris is unrecognizable - concrete is pulverized, asphalt is granulated, steel girders & i beams are twisted, sheared, penetrated, with animal/people remains being fragmented. Several storms have demonstrated this kind of power: imo, the most intense was Joplin MO. 2011 (May 22) - main hospital tower was torqued out of vertical apprx. 6 inches), El Reno/Moore OK. 2011 - El Reno lifted/rolled a 900 ton Cactus 117 oil drilling rig, Niles OH. Wheatland PA. 1985 - massive steel girders bent, twisted, penetrated in a destroyed steel mill/partial parking lot removal. These storms in particular did damage on another order of magnitude because of where the storms hit - total devastation in large commercial/heavy industry & infrastructure where structures are built to the highest standards available. New insights into wind dynamics that result in incredible destruction is found on the micro level and isn't found in college textbooks yet - some researchers are presenting their findings - more can be found when looking into physics & physical science/engineering (aeronautical): suction vortices, vortex shedding, laminar flow, supercritical/shock loading, harmonic resonance stress loading on materials - these fields are now realizing the very complicated wind/debris load dynamics in major storms with some calculations of 380-400+mph - and with some localized micro regions approaching the speed of sound (mach 1). The variables are too complicated to model accurately in any wind lab now - it's a combination of volumetric flow, funnel geometries, debris, topography, structure/material weight, density, porosity, rigidity/flexibility, shape, surface area, volume, anchoring/foundation, & time. It is very difficult to gather real world data during an emergency - sensors don't survive direct hits & researchers don't want to die in the pursuit of gathering data - so progress is slow, but new sensor technologies are being tested with updated computer modeling to follow - but since every storm is different, there isn't really a 'standard' to go by. Updated F scales should go in increments of 50mph. In summary using F scales: F0-2 can blow things down, F3-4 blows things away, F5-6 blows things apart - like explosive power - respect the power of Mother Nature -
I've always had kind of mixed feelings about _rating_ tornadoes. To me, it's really just about 2 things: Sticking a "label" on a tornado, and insurance evaluation. It seems to me that once you get into high-end EF-3 to EF-5 damage, it really doesn't matter... the damage is catastrophic. The lives lost, the people injured, the homes swept away, the businesses lost... how do you quantify that with a simple number? I guarantee that for the people that have been IN one of these tornadoes (EF3-5), they really don't care if it's called an EF3 or an EF5 (unless of course they are the kind that don't feel validated for their trauma unless it's rated EF5). Which brings me to my next point... how do we, as a society... kind of _invalidate_ the trauma of an EF3 survivor by saying, "well at least it wasn't an EF5"? They still might have lost everything, including family members, pets, jobs, irreplaceable mementoes, etc... but, hey... at least it wasn't an EF5, right? I've known for years that the F-6 (and higher) classifications exist... they have just _never been used_ in official documentation - or at least weren't permanently kept as record (the few downgrades to F/EF-5). I really enjoyed this video a lot Carly, and appreciate you bringing this up! Also, **Congratulations** on your brand launch!!! After the 1st expect some orders from me!! ❤
You're absolutely right! It doesn't really matter what the rating of a Tornado is, it IS Catastrophic To You If Your Home Is Damaged, Regardless Of The "EF Rating!"
I 100% agree. My town was hit in January of this year by a .75 mile wide EF3 that prompted Houston's first ever Tornado Emergency alert. Homes, Businesses, and churches were destroyed and a train derailed, yet People kept saying "well nobody got hurt so was it really an EF3". I have loved tornados all my life but I cant believe the amount of trauma people expect to see from certain tornado ratings. I apparently walked right next to a bus that was flipped over while trying to pick my daughter up from her elementary school which was 1 of 3 in the area the city that took direct hits. Like I said though, Nobody got hurt which is absolutely amazing.
I grew up a few miles from Xenia, and was 12 when the tornado hit there in 1974. Still the weirdest and scariest looking weather day I've ever seen in my life. Part of it being how green the sky and air was. The light coming in through the curtains even made the inside of the house green looking. Also, the clouds were boiling. The tornado was unusual in two rare ways. One being it was called an F6 at first, but it was also a "dead-man walking" tornado. It shows briefly in that kind of famous video that a kid filmed with a video cam back then.
explaining the most devastating and scariest tornadoes as a lighthearted video was kinda confusing to me for a second until I went and looked at your other videos. makes total sense now lol. cant wait to watch more!
>Tornado with 450mph winds goes through Los Angeles, leaving no survivors and not a single building standing. Causes triple the highest monetary damage ever seen before >NWS: It was an F4 guise
I'll be buying as soon as the launch gets here. I'm so excited by how far you've come. I will forever love your weather content as another female storm chaser at heart!
Might be a rambled mess...but like you said..this was supposed to be a more lightly and more of a free flowing video !! You still got your point across and was pretty clear about what you were trying to convey to your audience!! 😁👍 But as for the topic itself...I've seen the aftermath videos of some of these really nasty and awe inspiring tornadoes..and the damage of some of these tornadoes look to be almost as bad as the pictures you can find of Hiroshima and Nagasaki !! And those were more of a derecho type of damage...but in the case of Nagasaki the damage was to more industrial buildings than the traditional wood and clay houses of Hiroshima and the winds was up to 600 mph but all at once !! So if you really look at it..the violent F5s had winds of 300+ mph...but was a bit slower than an airburst atomic explosion !! So you could theoretically say that a tornado that caused the same damage as fat man but was not an explosion could do damage of at least 75% or up to 450 mph in strength!! Which would put it in a class of actually close to an F7 tbh !! Ha,but you and I should have at least three more good decades on this earth...and I'm sure that by then they should have the technology to measure the wind speeds...similarly to how they measure the wind speed of a hurricane by then !! But i think the biggest thing is for the government to implement newer technology to the housing blueprints in tornado prone areas to withstand higher wind speeds with less damage and loss of life!! Because as fun as it is to be in awe of mother nature's power,we are horrified by the total destruction and death the F3s and up can cause !! Lol..long post,but i had to add my two cents in on this one !!
Imagine if Dr. Ted Fujita was alive in the 2010s? He would definitely consider giving the F6 to the Philadelphia, Smithville and El Reno (2013) tornadoes
Just stumbled upon your channel and I really like it. I like the Two Storms concept. Didn't get it at first but it's clever. Weathering the storm! I love it ❤ subscribing!
F6 damage would probably be really difficult to distinguish from F5 (slab sweep clean). How would it do more destruction than that? Also I would like to request a video about the 1999 Mulhall F4. Cannot find anything about it on any platform. Love your videos, keep up the good work!
There are above ground storm shelters that are rated for EF5s, and they've been fine in Moore and Joplin. If we saw those snapped off the slab, that'd be pretty terrifying.
@@Vexas345 My thought was on the, if I'm not mistaken, 2011 Hackleburg EF5 where an underground basement/shelter had part of its roof moved a few centimetres, with the house above it swept clean off its foundation
@@eo7212 It was definitely up there. I don't know what windspeed it'd end up being, but I think that's kind of the next level. If even people in well designed tornado shelters can't survive, so either people have to be out of the way, or in like FEMA bunkers or something crazy strong like that.
Good discussion! Science continuously evolves and when one question gets answred, it brings dozens more! As we have better ways to measure wind speed, account for variables such as those you mentioned, and look at other variables (such as estimates of how much water the storm dumped, how many lightning strikes were there, how much hail and what size it was--all of the components of the storm), the way the scale is measured should change with more informed data. Those changes don't mean the original scale was wrong and don't cast aspersions in any way. They mean we know more and have gotten better in analyzing storms.
i’m sick with a cold and i’ve been binging your videos for 2 days now😭 have you talked about the 2012 derecho that hit West Virginia? i know it hit other places but i live in WV and i was without power for weeks and the wind was insaneeee
I live in WV as well ( in the summer) and that derecho was intense to say the least. I have also watched first hand tornado damage that was caused by a tornado, no doubt in my mind, but was still called straight line wind damage. Insurance companies are shady to say the least.
The Fujita scale is an outdated way of measuring the intensity of tornadoes because it only takes into account the wind speeds and damage caused by the tornado. It does not take into account the size, shape, and other characteristics of the tornado that may affect its damage potential. Additionally, the Fujita scale was originally developed to measure tornadoes in the United States and cannot be accurately applied to other countries with different building and infrastructure patterns. It is also a subjective measurement system, which can lead to inconsistencies in how tornado intensity is measured. A way better version of measuring tornadoes would be taking into account Ground scouring Debris granulation Vehicle damage Using Doppler radars Photogrammetry Simulated environments if needed Absolutely awesome video 👍🏽
F6 - lord hope not. We just 0:02 went thru an ugly F1 - extensive damage to several neighbors farms (March 31). First experience was our home getting sides wiped in 1965. Came face to face with one while driving June 10, 1979 - (no watch or warning that day in Monroe WI) fortunately it suddenly turned and went north.
the Jarrell and the El Reno Tornadoes were some of the most terrifying imo, El Reno was not only such a large formation but it was truly an erratic monster which made even more terrifying.
I personally don’t agree with the new tendency to use EF4 for absolutely devastating tornadoes like the Mayfield tornado or Rolling Fork tornado as 2 recent examples. Both caused significant structural damage to well built structures including a water tower and a large brick buildings and slabbed homes.
I just found your channel today but seeing what you are doing with two storms is inspiring. I lost one of my best friends to suicide last April and he himself was a meteorologist and storm chaser. Nothing will ever bring him back but I can’t help but think how the work you do could have helped him. My hope and prayer is that your work can and will help others like him so that others may not lose their battle. He has been heavy on my mind recently and seeing this message this morning has helped me feel peace, so thank you.
I will be keeping a close eye on you guys on Monday and Tuesday from my phone in Bristol England! Stay safe and I pray know body gets hurt! Incredible videos and amazing sights! All quiet at the moment so get some rest for the coming chase! 🌪️
Even Dr. Ted Fujita, the father of the F scale, theorized this and stated that the Zenia, OH tornado should have been rated as such. I can argue that even the Jerel, Texas tornado may have approached this threshold.
What is crazy to me, since the tri state 1925 tornado. There has been over 100k tornados in the USA and we still can't decide a rating correctly. Doesn't, make since and I also believe that the reason they don't issue EF5 in because of insurance companies getting involved.
F6 or not, the one that terrifies me the most is the Jarrell Tornado. What an extraordinary event that was.
Joplin was crazy too
It was like a woodchipper…..or an everythingchipper I guess
I came here to say the exact same thing. Of all the tornadoes I've researched, Jarrell chills me to the core. The damage that was done WAS inconceivable! Everything was sandblasted into oblivion, only small fragments were left behind. Rescue workers couldn't even identify if parts of bodies were human or animal. It just sat there on top of double creek estates and blenderized Everything into NOTHING. Inconceivable.
In 1999 Moore Oklahoma experienced a tornado with windspeeds thought to be approximately 20-40 mph greater than even Jarrell! Insane to think of the power of 300+ mph wind speeds!
Imagine if one day we get an f7 tornado with winds over 400 miles per hour and 3 mi wide.
That'll do damage even greater anything
The NWS won't even admit when a Tornado was an EF5 anymore. Even if an F6 did happen and underground shelters were ripped from the ground, it'd still be classified as an EF4
Exactly, EL Reno and Mayfield are prime examples of EF5 tornadoes, we really need a NEED a more enhanced scale.
Here is the problem. The EF scale is used how it is meant to. If there is damage that is not enough to be rated an ef5, than It cannot. A slabbed home does not mean EF 5 damage. Watch June First, it will clear things up for you.
We need a damage scale like we already have as well as a power/force scale, imo. We're getting more and better wind speed data than ever before, having a scale that actually does what people think the EF scale is supposed to do is finally actually feasible for select storms.
@TristanPotkanski-jy9rj El Rino's raiting was justified. It didn't hit anything much and they don't rate tornados by wind speed or size. They rate them by the damage that they produce. I'm sure if it did go through a population centre they would've said it was EF5. Mayfield and Rolling Fork both deserved that EF5 rating though.
@TristanPotkanski-jy9rj Agreed, I know build quality is taken into account, but it really shouldn't be, not to that much of a degree, not every single building is up to the latest code, and they never will be. If a residential building is blown tf away completely, it should be rated EF5, I know there needs to be some building discretion cause of trailer parks and such, but buildings are buildings, period.
This soft retiring of the EF5 rating over the last decade or so cause "oh, what it hit wasn't built to current code" is horseshit. These people's houses still got leveled. Now if a strong tonado hit a freshly built town where every single building was up to the latest code and the rest it hit was rural, fine, rate it EF4, or maybe we should bring EF6 into the rating system for these new "up to code" buildings.
Fun Fact: Most scientists claimed that the Tri-State tornado at times had wind speeds the were close to be 320 mph. This means that it would have theoretically warranted an F6. However, there were no formal instruments that were available to physically measure the wind speed in order to confirm that.
Virtually all the information about that tornado is 100% speculation. I don’t take the claims very seriously. All I can say is that it’s all but certain that it was multiple tornados on a similar path, likely from the same supercell. To think there is one tornado from 100 years ago that went on a path 300% longer than the 2nd longest tornado just defies statistics in general.
i would beleve this if it was part of some extreme super outbreak. but the tri state tornado wasnt. and neither was it just 1 tornado
I can believe that! Tornadoes do ramp up & down, cycle, & I believe that some Multi-Vortex Tornadoes can have internal votices that are EF-5 Winds, which is why you oftentimes see maybe EF-4 & EF-5 damage from the same Tornado. I think that this is a very little researched hypothesis, but I hope to research it more now that I have the time to do so. We're had Super Fogs, Otis, The Super Hurricane, Super Heat & Super Cold, So Why Not Super Vortices Within The Same Tornado?
How is random speculation a "fun fact" lmao, many scientists also claim it was 3 separate tornados...
Considering the range of an EF4 is 166-200mph, if the scale 'was' modified to include an EF6 they'd probably re-rate an EF5 201-250mph so an EF6 would be anything over that...
Claiming The Tri-State tornado had 320mph winds is an absurd, childish claim largely romanticizing the folklore. These "scientists" probably also made this claim under the old Fugita scale. Back in 1925 a high end EF-2 or low end EF3 would completely obliterate 99% of the structures in those old farming communities (especially if it was wide like speculated). Sure it was powerful enough but the main reason it did so much damage was it was on the ground for so long.
I don't like that tornadoes are only rated based on the the damage they caused. That leaves out a whole lot of powerful tornadoes that got no rating because they didn't hit anything. That skews the numbers.
Maybe the time it stays on the ground should be taken into account?
@@rollingpingamers2785Sheer size, wind speed, death toll, and damage should all be take into account, and these details should offset other details when other areas are lacking.
The El Reno tornado was the largest tornado in history as 2.6 mile wide tornado, but was merely given a EF3 rating on the basis that it didn’t hit a lot and only produced some damage.
Yet the size, wind speed and death toll wasn’t taken as heavily into account by the NWS which is absurd.
@@TrinityCourtStudiosgood thing we rate hurricanes by the death toll and damage they cause and not things like wind speed.
@wwjccsd wind speed does play a big factor. If winds exceed 157 mph it's a Cat 5. Honestly the categories need to increase because Hurricane Andrew and Harvey were both Cat 5 but Harvey was almost 2x as large
Yeah, the tornado rating map is basically a population density map and the way the f5 designation is gatekept instead of simply adding a new f6 designation to take into account the building codes fails to consider the original meaning of such a scale. We quickly see the whole ratings system becomes meaningless due to the sheer number of variables.
If the land is equally populated and we can guarantee that all structures are built to spec then I could see how damage can be used to rate tornadoes.
A better system for hurricanes was developed when we were able to assess pressure differences. Since the tornado scale was developed before we can accurately determine speed and AOE 🎮 of these violent storms, I can see these changes following a similar path.
Y'all are getting really creative with your videos the last few months and I love it. You, Swegle, High Risk Chris, and June First have been knocking it out of the park digging deeper into the darker, less explored corners of extreme weather. The elasticity of the F/EF scale is weird. I'd bet half of the tornadoes rated F5 back in the day would have far different ratings today.
Thank you so much, they are all so wonderful in their own unique ways!! It's SUCH a fascinating topic to explore. I love seeing everyone's different backgrounds coming through on the topic too
No offense, but you “young kids” are doing things I only dreamt of at that age! If I were about 25 years younger, I’d have a channel up, too.
Love those channels too!!!
@@5roundsrapid263 what’s stopping you now?
I wonder if there'd be a chance of a collab with those creators in the future. It'd be interesting seeing you all talk about tornadoes together.@@carlyannawx
An EF6 tornado would need to level well design reinforced concrete buildings, I think. It would also be able to level entire blocks of well engineered masonry+reinforced concrete buildings.
One tornado that approached that, and is seldom talked about is the San Justo tornado. Here in South America, the use of reinforced concrete blocks in the columns of the construction is extensive. Usually the steel bars of these blocks goes all the way down to the foundation. So for a tornado to level entire blocks of this construction type, like what happened in San Justo, it would need to be in the upper echelon of the scale.
wow, i've never heard of this tornado and just looked it up. thank you for informing us all. from the stuff i've seen already it sounds like a behemoth of a tornado. it's a shame that tornadoes outside of the us typically get so little attention because the san justo event seems to be on par with the worst of the american ones. when ted fujita calls it the worst tornado damage he'd seen outside of america, you know it's bad...
@@Staarchild97 If you have descent Spanish, I would highly recommend you watch a little documentary here on UA-cam that interviewed Survivors of this tornado. One of the witnesses described the tornado touchdown as the sound of a thousand locomotive breaks squeal.
Let's not tempt the Lord though okay?
A 7-minute tornado that wound up causing such extreme damage. Now that is crazy, especially since most violent to catastrophic tornadoes are long-tracked. Looked like it was a massive yet violent stovepipe.
I didn't know large violent tornadoes was a threat in South America. Thank you for the education :)
The problem with the Fujita scale is its using human controlled variables and judgements instead of more concrete, measurable data. An "eF-12" could hit a corn field and since are no structures be rated an eF-2. That's just tainting the data and hurting the science.
That's still measurable and objective data. The problem is the system isn't fleshed out enough and leads to personal judgement. It is also a measurement type that is easier to dispute, and is a type where companies may have a significant reason to bias the data lower. Think insurance companies, who would need to pay out more money for EF5 rated damage than they would for EF4 rated damage.
One of the most major issues is that scientists and civilians have completely different ideas of what the scale quantifies. The EF system is meant to quantify damage to human infrastructure, not windspeed.
@cook1ezz okay what is the goal of the EF scale? Is it not to approximate the most accurate 3 second gust speed based on the damage indicators? If it's exclusively a damage to infrastructure scale, why bother having any wind speed correlations whatsoever? If it really is just a scientist vs layperson misunderstanding of purpose, I'd argue the onis is on bodies like the NWS to succinctly, and more consistently clarify its function.
Also, as far as insurance risk contracts go, the payout is not really going to be affected by the official EF determination. It's to pay out whatever the cost to restore your property to its pre-loss state upto a maximum of your properties total actual value.
@@AlKohaiMusic The wind speeds are not the main purpose of the scale. They are just there to explain what wind speeds are capable of causing the observed damage.
Per the official NWS website: "The Fujita (F) Scale was originally developed by Dr. Tetsuya Theodore Fujita to estimate tornado wind speeds based on damage left behind by a tornado. An Enhanced Fujita (EF) Scale, developed by a forum of nationally renowned meteorologists and wind engineers, makes improvements to the original F scale. This EF Scale has replaced the original F scale, which has been used to assign tornado ratings since 1971."
Wikipedia definition: "The Enhanced Fujita scale (abbreviated as EF-Scale) rates tornado intensity based on the severity of the damage they cause."
They explicitly exclude Doppler measurements and other ways of measuring the wind speed, since the scale is first and foremost based on damage. They explain it pretty succinctly, but people who aren't the NWS usually aren't clear in their explanations.
The insurance thing is something I've seen reputable storm chasers echo, personally I have no idea if it's true or not.
Exactly. Look at El Reno....
@@AlKohaiMusic I can understand your argument. I'm not necessarily saying we ditch the ef scale, but I think we need an additional rating system that looks at the tornado and atmosphere directly. Such a scale would help the study and science and put focus on storms that may be entirely overlooked now because of a low ef rating.
As someone who is a survivor of a F5 tornado (Barneveld, WI, June 9th 1984) .. Paralyzed and lost both parents n sister in it. Before i was even 2 yrs old. (i'm 41 now). I love your Embrace Chaos sticker. I got a "memorial" tattoo on my shoulder of the tornado, and i have my parents n sisters name floating around as "debris" in the storm. And even tho i didnt have the $ to get my tattoo finished at the time... I eventually wanted to add like a beautiful coloirful sunset in the background of the tornado destroying everything.. Cuz i wanted it to be symbolic... That there can still be beauty among the chaos.
So i love that slogan "embrace chaos". :)
I saw you on the news a while ago! Glad you are doing good man
You ever recover with your paralysis in any type of form? I'm assuming waist down? Sorry to ask. Just curiosity. Glad you survived though
❤❤❤❤❤ well wishes
Thanks for sharing. My heart hurts reading your story.
Allow me to get on my soapbox for a moment lol. The problem is that what we have is a damage based scale that is used to estimate wind speed. If a tornado with 300mph winds is in a open field, or if it hits structures that were poorly constructed, we simply cannot accurately estimate wind speeds past the point where these structures are destroyed. We've quite literally seen this in action. Tornadoes like West Kentucky or Rolling Fork very possibly had no structures in their path that could verify EF5. It's like having a cop with a radar gun that maxes out at 65. 100MPH still just says 65.
The thing that irks me is that with tornadoes like El Reno 2013 we *have* wind speed measurements that are simply ignored in favor of damage *estimates*. IMO, what we need to know is how strong these storms actually are and right now I'm not sure how many people would argue we're doing a great job of figuring that out. So many inconsistencies and contingencies. We've seen tornadoes to loops and hit the same structure twice. We've seen tornadoes stall and sit on one spot for minutes.
We must decide what is important; damage caused or strength of the storm and therefore hypothetical damage. To me, only focusing on damage caused misses the point a bit. If you live in OK and were nearly missed by several massive tornadoes it wouldn't make sense for you to assume "it didn't hit me, it must not have been a big deal." No, the potential is there and you should prepare accordingly. "Yeah, that town over got hit by a tornado, but it was only an ef3, so we don't need to build out houses to withstand ef5." Except it could have had winds exceeding EF5 and we act like it didn't because we're focused on using damage to estimates things we can actually occasionally measure.
You got a good point
@@thomasisbored9060 thanks mr president
A few issues with that argument
1. It is nearly impossible to build a building that could withstand an EF5 tornado, the only structures that could would be large stone buildings or skyscrapers, and even then they’d would still receive significant damage. The problem is that the US Midwest/Southeast has a massive variety of build quality, and unfortunately most of it is not the best. If a tornado hits a house that is not well built, it would cause the same level of damage to it no matter if it was a EF3 or EF5, thus making it impossible to tell the strength of the tornado as it hit that house. Thats the reason why the EF scale takes build quality into account, because a well built home would not receive the same level of damage from an EF3 as a poorly built one.
2. Relying solely on wind speed is not the best idea because it is extremely hard to measure precisely what speed wind is from second to second, and it fluctuates wildly. Thats why an EF rating is more of an average of wind speed at the time because that is more accurate than changing the rating from second to second if say the wind speed is right on the border between one of the levels. In time as technology for measuring wind gets better, maybe wind will be a more important factor than damage, but as of now, damage is what we can much more accurately measure.
@@sjeasonEven then. It would make more sense to use the tools we have to the ever improving technology to measure the speed of the wind, and to measure the diameter of the tornado for the rating of tornados. The F(or EF) scale is still useful to a degree to be alongside an objective measurement.
He has a point that going off damage is a more relative measurement, even if you factor in how a building is constructed(if conditions and materials are perfect and we factor in modern advances in the materials), than it would be to take actual measurements of the storm. The storms do vary quite a lot, even within its own system, but taking the average like we do for the F scale can still be applied to a new scale based on wind speed and diameter of the storm's tornado/s.
Agreed!
Would be nice to have a revision of the EF scale again. To factor in not just damage indicators but also wind speed, size and atmospheric conditions. It's fair to claim there have been some potential whiffs between the EF4 and the EF5 rating that tornados get. Mayfield, Tuscaloosa, Rochelle, El Reno, etc. And not only a revision but a review of these "controversial" ratings. Another wonderful video!!
there is one coming, I think sometime in the next two years or so (according to Tim Marshall). But I agree, it's just so lacking as it is now, but I think the issue is that outside of the Reed Timmers and Tim Samaras types, nobody is really getting tornado data -- actual raw data. It's pretty frustrating to know that there's still a lot of uncertainty, and I think with the really wild Otis rapid intensification that models didn't predict-- it feels like a wake up call that we still have so much to learn!
honestly, people get way too hung up on the rating, the difference between a high end EF4 and a low end EF5 is minute, and I think it shows incredibly hubris how so many people that have no experience in the field and have never even taken part in a damage survey feel incredibly confident in saying that professionals with years of study and experience got it wrong.
Not that there aren't issues with the scale, but people trying to claim "X tornado should have been an EF5" is IMHO beyond stupid and its people turning these events that destroyed peoples lives into mere disaster porn.
@@carlyannawx Yes, Otis caught everyone flatfooted and it should be a wake-up call. Now, I'm more interested in tornadoes than I am in hurricanes, precisely because it is extremely unlikely a full-scale hurricane is ever going to hit Michigan where I live. (Never say never, though). I did some comparisons and wind-speed wise, Cat 5 Otis would be a high-end EF3 though the damage would of course be MUCH higher. I recently heard of a hurricane (Patricia) with winds in the EF5 range (300 mph+) which I did not think was possible; I'm going to have to look into that one some more.
The biggest flaw in the F/EF scale as compared to the Saffir-Simpson scale is that it is based on damage, whereas the SS scale is based on windspeeds. Imagine rating hurricanes using EF scale criteria. We'd get an entirely different picture. Now I realize I'm comparing apples and oranges here. But if your "inconceivable EF6" takes place out in the middle of nowhere where there is nothing to hit, how do you then rate it? If you are going primarily by damage indicators, then ALL tornadoes that took place prior to widespread settlement of the Great Plains were EF0-EF1 regardless of size or wind speed because there was nothing permanent for them to destroy. Just scattered villages of nomadic Native Americans who were no doubt well aware of these storms and how to avoid them.
A related flaw in the F/EF scale is that it, for lack of a better term, is North America-centric. It is based on building standards and codes that are widely used in North America but are not necessarily used in other parts of the world. We don't think about tornadoes happening outside the United States/Canada, but other places DO get them, notably Bangladesh, which holds the record for the most fatalities from a single tornado. I would like to see tornado rating scales move away from being primarily damage-based after the fact. While Otis' rapid intensification did catch everyone by surprise, people knew that there was a tropical storm with hurricane potential out there. It was just that the data suggested Cat 1. Currently we have no real equivalent system in place for supercells and tornadoes.
There is. It’s hinted that ground scouring will be added depending on soil type, vehicle damage will be taken into account, and debarking of trees.
Any revision needs to take into account documentable wind speed measurements, either from doppler or possibly any wind instruments that actually survive... the concept of an EF 4 or 5 getting a EF-0 rating simply because it was in open country without visible signs of destruction is ludicris!
Carly, I have shared with you before that I am a Surviver of The 1974, Xenia Ohio Tornado when I was 11 years old. Since I have shared my story before, I won't go through it again. But it was a life-altering experience for me. I DO have PTSD from that experience even though I earned my Ph.D. in Meteorology, & I've worked as a Television Meteorologist on several occasions & I have chased Tornadoes for Scientific Research a Number Of Times!However, during most of my Career, I've been an Airline Captain. Obviously, the two careers intersect in many ways.
I have recently retired from The Airlines, I worked 20 years longer than I had to in order to retire! I did work in Television too, during that time, but now I want to chase Tornados.
I did catch The Distinction that you have in your Title, The Inconceivable "F-6", as opposed to The "EF-6," & of course, as a Meteorologist, I used The Old "F-Scale" for years. I even attended a Seminar in which Dr. Ted Fujita was The Keynote Speaker. I knew back in 1974 that he'd initially rated The Xenia Ohio Tornado as an F-6. Even now, if you Google The Windspeed Of The Xenia Ohio Tornado, it says 340-360 mph. I believe it! It slid my Dad & me on the hardwood floor of our foyer, & my Mother was standing up when it hit, it blew her down, & slid her underneath her beloved Baby Grand Piano, which was untouched by The Tornado, but everything else was completely destroyed and blown to parts unknown! We lived on the Southwest Side Of Town & we all stood up & watched it bulldoze through The Town! I mainly have Sleep Disturbances now, but I DO have flashbacks when I hear Thunder sometimes. I'm a lot better than I used to be. I learned to fight back a lot of my PTSD Symptoms as a Pilot. I was flying a DC-9/MD-80 Stretch Series Commercial Airliner from Philadelphia to Atlanta once & I had to Vector Around some very Severe Thunderstorms, as ATC was trying to get us on the Runway before The Squall Line hit The Airport. We made it by the skin of our teeth. I was still Reversing Thrust & You know how noisy that is, but we could actually hear a clap of Thunder over The Noise Of Our Thrust Reversal. Just after that, it began to rain & hail so hard that I couldn't see how to taxi the aircraft & I was clear of The Runway, on The Taxiway, but no one else could land until that storm passed. It dropped large hail, & I couldn't believe that we had just been up there whipping around those storms! We did train how to keep Airplanes Airborne during Micro-Bursts before we got Doppler Radars mounted in The Nose Cones of All Airliners! I took off from Kansas City once on the way to New York & I spotted a Tornado Down North Of The Airport. I reported it to ATC & it resulted in a Tornado Warning! But I was moving away from it & a lot faster than it was. I have stories from a remarkable lifetime, partly due to having been in The April 3rd, 1974 Xenia F-5, but also my Dad was a WWII U.S. Army Air Corps Combat Pilot over Europe, I grew up going flying with my Dad every Sunday Afternoon.
Cool Video!
David, if you have not done so, you really ought to write a book about you and your family's life experiences. That was an amazing testimony!
Piano: "Can't touch me"
@@AmyraCarter 😆
Yes, it was just that way! It actually protected my Mother from falling debris! We always said that "G-d Must've Sent A Thousand Angels To Protect Us That Day."
@@bobh5020 Bob, I have thought about doing that! I believe that it's a story worth telling. 🙂
My mom also survived the Xenia tornado,she was 12 and still has PTSD from that evening.
The fundamental flaw with the EF scale, as applied, is that a tool that was supposed to provide 1:1 mapping to the original Fujita scale, to allow for comparative analysis over time, is now being held to standards that are a great deal higher than the standards Ted Fujita was devising his scale around. Surveyors are now downrating damage based on the lack of anchoring techniques that hadn't even been invented when Fujita died; as a result, damage that Fujita would have deemed an F5 is being dismissed and downrated as EF4 or even EF3 because "it wasn't a well-built, properly anchored building." (This is above and beyond the stuff that helps lead to claims of a conspiracy to downrate damage to appease the insurance industry, like the case of a well-built, properly anchored home being slabbed and swept away... but rated as EF3 because a single shrub next to the house was still present afterwards, because of the "context clue" of the shrub and no other homes having such severe damage.)
In essence, the scale is being misapplied, with the standards required for a DI to be accepted increasing over time rather than being held consistent to allow for apples-to-apples comparisons. Realistically, the standards being required to qualify for an EF5 rating today are high enough that they *should* be assigned to a hypothetical EF6 rating, as the buildings are of such superior construction compared to when F5/EF5 damage was defined that it can't be seen as truly comparable any more. Any update to the scale that doesn't take this issue into account, and specifies the actual construction standards for EF5 damage in unambiguous terms (no more "well-constructed, properly anchored" phrases that allow for standards creep) will be as flawed as the current system, and continue to significantly underrate high-end damage and thus cause a false sense of security that "tornadoes are getting weaker."
You said very well how I feel. Great post.
The last sentence is something very important that I have noticed among the general population when the discussion of tornados comes up.
As we know, most people aren’t in the path of constant tornados. They affect a certain percentage of the US as a whole, with one part of the country being real prominent for them in comparison to others … but most just go by what they see being reported and take the ratings they’re given at face value.
Some of the views I’ve heard have had that same exact thought process: “well, I don’t see tornados getting EF5 ratings like they used to decades ago, that kinda’ proves their damage and speeds are going down over time.” … like they should be feared less or something.
No surprise a lot of that is also picked up and pushed by the types that believe global warming is considered a total lie made up by the government and that the weather all around the world is also being controlled by them. They’ll point to the EF ratings as proof that things are not as extreme anymore as the government claims (while ignoring how the system is used by them … yea, the crazy stuff I’ve come across on Facebook is wild lol).
generally I have always been of the opinion that the EF scale makes sense because EF5 is just total destruction and you cant get worse than structures being completely gone, but you have made such insanely good points with how the scale doesn't account for the advancement in technology when building structures. It never crossed my mind that many of our EF3s and EF4s could have very well been EF5s if buildings were still built the same as before. This is something I'll seriously have to ponder over now for a good while.
I know that last part is very true. I can from Texas and was around in the 90’s. I also traveled through the area of the last big super outbreak in 2011. To hear people dismiss or downplay it when I got out of areas hit by them.
I love the fact that your new brand is focusing on two things I also think highly of as well considering I have PTSD, Depression and Anxiety too. I often use weather videos mainly watching news coverage of my favorite tornadoes (May 3rd 1999, Pilger Twins, The Super Outbreak 2011) so on my next pay day I will absolutely buy something to give back to you and help your brand out!
I was actually watching a similar video documenting the strongest tornadoes ever and Xenia was one that Mr Fujita himself recognised as the strongest candidate for an F6 and in my opinion closely followed by Jarrell and Bridge Creek F5s
The PTSD and anxiety are so important to me, and I know a lot of other people are the same way. You are always so kind. The idea of the F6 is the kind of tornado lore that we all love and are so fascinated with, I was so happy to explore the topic just a bit
@@carlyannawx Thank you Carly, your videos have helped massively too, I was watching the Hackleburg EF5 and the Bridge Creek F5 just the other day when i was having a bad day.
I love the topic because it can spark so many different potential tornadoes that can fall into that category and what needs to be done to be classed as an EF6
Carly, you hit on something huge. I love storms, but have chronic anxiety, too. I had PTSD symptoms from a couple near misses as a kid. “Two Storms” is a brilliant name!
Joplin and may 3 1999 Moore OK
@@donniefaust2763Joplin is not in the same boat, barely hit EF5 checkmarks
If there was going to be an EF6 that has already happened I would nominate the Jarrel tornado. That one gives me goosebumps.
You also ahve to account for the direction it was moving and how slow it moved. It moved southwest and at under 10 mph at times. Both were exceedingly rare then, even more so now. It was just an extremely rare tornado all around. Yes, I do agree that its development and rotational speeds were phenomenal, but it also stayed over Double Creek Estates for several minutes.
@@UahUahUah The level of ground scouring and debris granulation was IMO the most remarkable ever. Slow moving or not, the level of damage is probably the closest to EF6 that I can think of. I am saying this as an amateur tho, so feel free to take it with a grain of salt
@@tiffanynajberg5177You’re a very well informed amateur. Jarrell would be on the top of most peoples’ lists for an EF6.
@@5roundsrapid263It shouldn't because it was really slow tornado that hovered in same area for about few minutes. That main reason why we seen everything destroyed in that manner.
@@BiG-JuPO1O1it still produced phenomenal damage of a degree that outperformed other F5s. For example, throwing vehicles not just hundreds to thousands of yards, but destroying them to a degree they were not recognizable. Also scouring 300 yards of concrete off of a road, and excavating the ground to a depth of 18+ inches. It granulated the debris so finely it looked like there was nothing left. Hence my argument.
Tornado: **Rips underground cellars out of the ground, destroys even below the foundations of homes, sucks water towers out of the ground, throws around skyscrapers**
The National Weather Service: Best I can do is EF-4. And I’m taking a *BIG* risk.
Do you have a buddy to call?😂
I SWEAR THEY RATED A TORNADO AN EF-3 ONCE
@@vibrantgleam el reno?
@@thtautisticgamer The biggest and most powerful tornado ever recorded, yeah let's rate it F-3
It all started with the El Reno tornado. Once they saw people accept that garbage they have consistently refused to go above an ef4
Given that we now can get accurate readings of windspeed and pressure drops from inside tornadoes, I feel that we should have two scales: the ef scale to measure actual damage and impact to communities, and a second scale which accounts for the tornado's potential and measured strength. As it is now, we could see the world's most powerful tornado be rated ef0 if it only goes through a field.
For me, it was the 99 Moore tornado that took the cake. Absolutely mind-blowing that a cyclone the size of a town could have 300-340 + - mph wind speeds. The highest wind speeds recorded globally since records began to be taken. However, something that has fascinated me recently is infrasound created by high-powered wind hitting a mountaintop in a way that turns it into a mountain-sized whistle! The Dyatlov Pass incident is thought to have been caused by this phenomenon, and ever since I have looked into it it's something that truly is terrifying to me!
Jarrell Tornado didn’t have wind speed measured, but there was damage done that experts have NEVER seen. There are still trenches randomly dug into the ground to this day, that they have purposely left there to remember it (I’ve visited the site…I lived a couple hours away in Houston.)
That's pretty crazy, I'll have to look into that to see some of the pictures of the damage caused. My comment was mainly just to encourage those interested to look into infrasonic sound caused by mountains. @@strongestnattyever-videos2247
@@strongestnattyever-videos2247because it was slow
@@MrAjking808 it takes 325+ mph wind to do some of the damage at Jarrell, experts have said many times
Just to clarify that Cyclones are similar storms to Hurricanes and Typhoons. Tornados(or more specifically the Supercell Thunderstorms that spawn them) and Cyclones are not the same thing
I feel like the discussion of the disappearance of EF5s could be a whole other video for you to make, would love to see it!
The 1953 Adair Iowa F5 was at the upper end of that scale, but because of lack of technology and limited photographic evidence it will remain a mystery...
Agreed!
Yes would love this video.
I wouldn't say its a disappearance, just a blatant refusal of NWS surveyors assigning EF5 ratings to tornados. Even if a damage indicator is 'Well built home - slab swept clean.'
the reason there are fewer and fewer EF5's is because they are intentionally giving tornados false ratings to avoid the EF5 rating. thats why EF3's and EF4's have skyrocketed in number and why EF5's suddenly stopped happening.
How can the tornadoes only go up to F5 when my keyboard goes up to F12???? Checkmate haters
i don't think i've ever laughed this much omg
🤣😂🤣
Up to F24 exists but most keyboards don’t have them
Imagine a tornado going at Mach 1...😂😂😭
Tornado fans hate him
I cannot count how many times I have heard the debate about the Tri-State tornado possibly being an F6 tornado. It gets interesting.
An F6 isn’t possible. There’s this thing called physics and the winds on earth aren’t capable of going much higher than 320mph.
Carly, in an article on the Moore outbreak of 1999 in the NWS Magazine Weather Wise, there was a mention of another twister that same afternoon tat passed north of Oklahoma City around Mulhall and Orlando OK that was measured by a mobile Doppler of having quite likely entered F-06 territory. The fact that it stayed almost entirely over crop and pasture land kept it from ever getting much consideration.
But- there only goes up to f5
EF4 and EF 5 tornados fascinate me. The small town of Wyatt Indiana was wiped out by an EF 4 and possibly a weak EF5 during the Palm Sunday outbreak of 1965.. The only structure to survive was the grain elevator because its solid concrete. It survives to this day!
How can an ef 5 be weak? An ef 5 by definition is the strongest tornado. I bet you like jumbo shrimp too.
@@peterolbrisch8970The term “weak” EF5 means a low-end EF5, like on the border between EF4 and EF5.
Also, what in the world does the jumbo shrimp comment have to do with ANYTHING??
@@LWNOWAY That's just a bad of saying that. They could have said, another ef 4 or possibly an ef 5. Enjoy your jumbo shrimp!
Look up Hamtramck Michigan storms of 1997. There was so much debate on if it was a tornado or stightline winds. If I remember correctly it was decided it was stightline winds. It was devastrghting
@@peterolbrisch8970I prefer little lobsters better
I'm so glad you are going to do a video on the Lubbock, TX tornado. I lived in Lubbock then, in 11th grade. The next morning my father and I drove out to the airport to see if his airplane had been damaged. OMG!! Planes turned into modern art sculpture! Later, my friend and I drove all over, looking at damage, including the country club area, where the tornado was F5 (or F6??) Again, OMG! All the houses were wiped off their foundations and I was driving over walls and roof parts in the streets.
Wow you've got a beautiful setup. And as someone who got on an anti-depressant in my late 30s that changed my life for the better in ways I could never have imagined, I appreciate you a lot.
That means so much, thank you for the very sweet comment! I hope you are finding peace, no matter at what period in your life you are in:)
I was the same way. I never tried antidepressants until my late ‘30s. I finally asked for help with my chronic anxiety, and it was like night and day!
Same here. I just found out what childhood emotional neglect was; maybe I’m depressed, or maybe it was that, or maybe both. Meds help a little, but talk therapy isn’t as good as I thought it’d be. No lie, I think UA-camrs have been more helpful. Therapists listen, but that’s about it. I think I’m better off talking to my stuffed animals and watching YT. It’s working so far.
I get a tad bit of storm anxiety; we get more hurricanes here in North Carolina and they’re obviously different and so are the concerns, but I wouldn’t let my fear of tornadoes put me off of living in the Midwest. We went to a cousin’s wedding out in Lawrence, Kansas, and the road trip there was full of friendly people and beautiful land. Gotta get off the Interstate to see it, if time allows for a longer trip. Of course, when I was curious about Lawrence before going and did a YT search, the very first search result was the EF4 tornado that passed by there in 2019.
The biggest flaw in the system is tornadoes are rated after the fact not DURING. People need to know an F4 or F5 is barreling down upon them. The film Twister had the rating system we need.
absolutely correct, we need a preliminary with wind speeds AND checking after the fact
The rating system has Tornado Warning, Tornado Warning Observed, Tornado Emergency. If a person needs more than this they aren't getting to safety anyway. If a person ignores Tornado emergency, they aren't responding to F4.
@@notiowegian I believe some weather forecast is still will call out F4 or F5 as they see it on radar
Ummm its not easy to know its an EF 5 while it’s happening 😂 you gotta have people actually drop probes and shit to get accruate wind speed’s during the nado😂 also movies are great but twister is far far far from realistic 😂
@@kendrickswartz4318 yes because 260 mph on radar while it’s happening is not easy to tell that it’s an ef5
I dreamt about tornadoes a lot when I was a kid, crazy childhood is what the dream people say and I did have a crazy childhood. I’ve always been fascinated with tornadoes
Young brazen US storm chasers in the early days of UA-cam, with their combination of solid scientific knowledge, talent for storytelling and a passion to express it all, formed my life in all ways. It gave me the curiosity for the world around us, how it all is connected, and made me a pretty successful science journalist. Your channel, and your style of presenting, will surely inspire many more to come. Thank you for taking on the torch and continuing on!
I am a firm believer that if Bridge Creek didn't go around downtown okc and instead hit it, I truly believe THAT would be the definitive F6 tornado. No contest. The amount of death and destruction would be unfathomable, the horrors of the world's most violent tornado destroying a dense major population center. Moore and Bridge Creek were used to tornadoes and had shelters and preparations. A lot of OKC did not have storm shelters until that close call they had. That and the traffic that was awaiting their death sitting on the hallway, it would just be horrific. People leaving their city only to get swallowed.
Excellent video! Even the idea of an F6 tornado is fascinating thank you for all your work!
Yeah, tornadoes have many intricacies that we still don't understand. For example, once I watched here on UA-cam a fascinating video of a suction vortex producing a sonic boom as the tornado was dissipating. One of the most mind boggling moments ever captured on camera!
Aren’t these called vortex breakdowns?
I remember reading somewhere that the 1995 Pampa tornado was thought to be an F6 by someone, but couldn’t remember who. Mr. Grazulis is an absolute tornado authority and definitely has a solid theory on this one; good work digging that up. I definitely remember that tornado; it was all over cable TV documentaries that I grew up watching in the ‘90s. The ease with which it tossed large vehicles was incredible.
A beast of an outbreak!
One thing's clear from all this, Carly - we need a reliable way to measure tornado wind speed directly, and to do that, we need to greatly reduce the false positive rate of tornado warnings... which in turn implies we need to get better at detecting tornadoes by learning more about them. What you're doing directly advances this last cause! Keep it up!
_This woman is of next level intelligence!_
_I just know, but if you really listen to how she speaks.. this is clearly evident!_
If the tri state tornado happened tomorrow it would be rated a high end EF4. if the jarrel tornado happened tomorrow it would also be rated an EF4. I’m scared to think of what kind of damage a tornado would have to do to earn an EF5 rating nowadays.
It's ridiculous to go by damage instead of measured wind speed. Now that we can take wind measurements that should solely determine the scale.
Nope… Jarrell would be the highest level of EF5, no matter what year it happens. I just moved from Houston. I lived 2 hours away from Jarrell, so I made the trip there just to see where the tornado hit. There are small pictures/memory boards for people who died there…anyway, the Jarrell tornado left actual trenches that are still there to this day. The tornado literally ripped the ground out…. Dirt and grass….2 feet out of the ground. There wasn’t a wind speed measured, but multiple experts have estimated by the damage that it would’ve been the world record. Through DNA testing, they even found human skin granules mixed into the terrain (look it up)… that tornado was literally evaporating flesh. Terrifying.
@@user-wi9hv2pb2qbc the damage is what matters, bc what goes on at the ground is what kills people. They aren’t rating tornadoes to decide which was the biggest and baddest in the land.
Jarrell became a blender. People died blended with the debris of their home and family members.
I have been watching for a few months. My favorite video so far has been the video on the Joplin tornado. Your quality keeps getting better.
I was 4 years old during that 1995 outbreak. It was the first experience with severe weather I had ever had. The whole day prior to the tornados touching down is a blur until I woke up from nap from my babysitters. I was thee until my father picked me up a little after 3. I remember looking outside and it was nothing but ugly green clouds. Funny, didn't know the sky could be emerald green. I remember he picked me up in a bit of a panic, kept driving erratic and when got home the power was out, lightning had struck our house and fried the most of the electronics within the place. We needed to take our pup to the vet and when we opened the garage door to go outside hail had started. Funny...didn't know ice the size of golf balls or bigger could fall from the sky!?!? Soon we are in the truck and due to it having no ac it was humid. It was at a red light however things changed near the north side of town. It was there the torrential rain and hail stopped. Everything stopped. It was the wildest thing I've ever experienced. It was like you couldn't even breath. I heard a whirling sound and asked my dad what that was. He rolled down his window and looked up. And that was the next funny thing, I heard the f word for the first time that day. Three funnels where developing right on top of us and we could see the monster tornado to our west. From there the memory is a panic whirl to get my mother from the little office she was working at and while we where there one of the bigger tornadoes one of the f2s was barreling down the road towards us a good 3 to four miles away but still to my little mind it looked like an angry cloud of dust. We eventually all took shelter underground at the court house and rode out the storm. From there my obsession with tornadoes began.
Dr Fujita toyed around w/ assigning an F6 rating to the April 1977 Smithfield (Birmingham), AL tornado. The same system spawning the Smithfield tornado also contributed to the fatal crash of Southern Flight 242 in New Hope, GA; just outside of Atlanta
Your music choices for these videos are always on point. I almost feel like Tesseract was *made* for tornado videos, especially 90's era videos and news coverage. I can't really explain it, but it's just got that feel. 😁😁
Watching this after a very disappointing college class so I can regain lost IQ points. You are so much more informative, educational, and well-spoken compared to both of my classes this semester just fyi. Love your videos!
I live in southern Missouri in the branson area. I love this channel. Tornadoes scare the hell out of me,regardless they also fascinate me. Thank you for providing these videos.
Yeah I remember Professor Fugi initially rated the Xenia tornado of 1974 as a F6
When I was much younger, I attempted to write a book about an F6 tornado, but I ended up ditching the concept when the new Fujita scale came out. I did eventually write a book about tornadoes, and am working on two sequels to it. Sometimes though, I still think about going back and doing an alternate history style book featuring an F6 tornado.
Write it; I would love to see what you come up with.
Carly just posted!! What a great thing to wake up to
Always a great day!
Fascinating and a welcome pause from the heart-weighing stuff. Thank you Carly!
Love your videos! You put so much effort into them and I sometimes listen to your videos because they help me fall asleep.😅
Her voice is kinda soothing and easy to fall asleep to. Kinda like Bob Ross. Just easy going and soft-spoken.
that is such a complement, thank you so much!
@@carlyannawx Your welcome!
They help me fall asleep too! Not because they are boring though… love them!
Let me start off by saying this is the first video I've seen of yours, however, I absolutely love the concept of 2 storms. As a avid weather lover, I too know the struggles of mental health, and I just think the idea and concept are absolutely amazing. Keep doing what you're doing!!!!
I’ve never really understood why we don’t actually classify
Non destructive tornadoes. You’d think that they’re still important for the information gathered for purpose of furthering research. Wind speed throughout the life of a tornado, directional behavior as well as its size do matter. Even if it destroys nothing but dirt.
Wait. I'm SHOOK right now. I JUST stumbled across and watched your Parkersburg tornado vid and was debating checking out other vids you have but almost chose to move on. You see, I was originally going to search for something like, "What if there was an F6 tornado/can one exist/what would one be like" and so on. But something told me to go check your vids out. And omg what, but this was the VERY FIRST ONE that showed on your main page. I'm about to watch it right now, and I just subbed to you before writing this. I figured you'd enjoy this little 'story' of mine. :)
Have you ever seen the EAS Scenario, "EF6"? It's probably one of the best I've perused.
...
I approve of heightened mental health awareness, as I am autistic and anti-ableist.
You are one of those people with an infectious energy when you are excited and i think it's awesome that you have launched the Two Storma brand. Congratulations!
Even if meteorologists adopted an F6 rating, people would immediately ask for an F7. It's human nature to want bigger and bigger things
I often see incredibly Terrifying Tornadoes in my Dreams.
Often driving or Walking on top of a Hill…looking out onto the land to see A Horizon full of Tornadoes. Some of them bigger than what the mind could conceive in real life…:always an eerie experience to wake up from.
I thought I once read that Dr. Fujita only saw tornadoes only twice in person. I could be remembering wrong.
That honestly sounds about right, for the video I read that he was like decades into his career before even seeing a tornado and they had a party to celebrate
Usually a tornado won't be rated an EF5 even it slabs a home from the exact reasons:
1. The foundation. A house that has iron-bars anchors as well educed nails that are straight and aren't 90 degrees benched, the foundation is considered weaker. Thus the rating goes for an EF4 tornado. Ofc the ''EF5 drought" still goes on. We haven't seen a confirmed EF5 in terms of damage. Doesn't really mean it didn't happen. We had multiple tornadoes surpassing 200< mph. Including the Greenfield tornado where in the middle of funnel winds were up to 250mph from Doppler radar scans and higher near the meso up to 290mph. The drought refers, a tornado didn't hit any structure well cemented and founded to cause EF5 damage. But yes. I would agree the EF scale needs re-working but the NWS said they already re-working on it. In couple of years we could see more damage details be added to it.
Every once in a while, you’ll hear about *exceptional* damage that makes you go 🧐. For example, one of the EF5s during the April 2011 outbreak in Alabama scoured 2’ deep into the ground while moving at 60mph. That means within a matter of seconds, it did the type of damage that crawling EF5s normally do. I know that there are geological factors when it comes to ground scouring…different types of soil, rock, moisture content, etc. But even still…that kind of power is the stuff that, in my mind, would be left behind by a theoretical, thought experiment type EF6.
I’ve watched about every tornado video on UA-cam that I can find but I must say yours are my favorite. Amazing content.
Awesome. Thank you for the work you do Carly, it means a lot to a lot of of us.
And its not going to be too long before the Fujita scale is going to be obsolete and replaced with something that is used to confuse the civilian population. Too many people have been made aware of the new direction that POLITICS are taking every government institution, including NOAA and the NWS, which is not a good direction.
How to fast forward through five minutes of introduction just to get to the actual Tornado part! The first two minutes of the video I thought it was a commercial about something else and I almost changed it!
For an F6 rating to be a real thing, damage would have to be of the most extreme proportions, such as very well constructed heavy duty government buildings and skyscrapers getting swept clean and with residential homes, the concrete slab foundation of a home getting yanked out of the ground and thrown a considerable distance while also scouring everything around it severely. Perhaps the closest thing to an F6 in existence for the time being is the great red spot of Jupiter? The thing has speeds of up to 580 mph.
Carly I just want to say how much I love your content and how much I am enjoying seeing your platform and now small business growing, You've definitely helped resparked my passion for weather and partially inspired me to try to pursue Storm chasing.
Thank you your videos are incredible
There's been a lot of debate in various places like reddit concerning the Enhanced Fujita Scale. Reading and participating in discussions about this has been very interesting. Unfortunately, like any other debate, it can get pretty heated. People see homes and other structures that are damaged beyond recognition, with anchor bolts bent and misshapen from the winds, and then see the tornado receive an EF4 or even EF3 rating, and they wonder how on Earth the surveyors can consciously say "There's no way this indicates EF5 damage." Some people even go as far as to insist there's an intentional refusal to give the EF5 rating because of pressure from FEMA and insurance companies who don't want to pay out or use resources that would be required to provide relief and such to victims of a storm. Personally, I think it's a ridiculous notion and I think the EF scale goes to show how little we really know about how tornadoes work. The means that they have to survey damage is more specific now, but it's still mostly the same as it's been since the conception of the Fujita scale; analyzing damage.
Concerning the mythical F6, a lot of people have opinions for that as well. The main tornadoes I hear/read about being possible F6's are the 1997 Jarrell Tornado (about as close to "inconceivable damage" as you can get, really), the 1999 Moore, OK Tornado (the windspeeds were clocked at the cap for F5 before the instruments measuring it were destroyed), and the 2011 Hackleburg-Phil Campbell tornado (damage comparable to Jarrell).
The Moore measurements were by Doppler radar and they weren’t destroyed
I like that you led with Fred Stewart's iconic photograph of the 3April74 Xenia tornado! He was the public information officer at Greene Memorial Hospital and took the shot from the NE stairwell as the tornado swept through the Pinecrest Gardens subdivision on the NE side of Xenia just before it exited town. I was watching it from five miles west of town perched on my bicycle drenched by rain and bruised by hail while out on my paper route delivering the Xenia Daily Gazette. I was 12.
Probably will lever get ef6. Even if a tornado has the wind speeds of a nuclear bomb and wipes a skyscraper clean to its foundation it’ll be classified an ef5. “Nothing left? ef5”
Carly, thank you for a very well thought out and beautifully presented video. I'm originally from NJ where we might get an average of 3 weaker tornadoes per year, but there have been storms as high as EF3 in the not so distant past. I've relocated to AR nearly 8 years ago, and although I've always been terrified of tornadoes (thank you, Wizard of Oz!), I've been trying to overcome my phobia by attempting to learn as much as I can about them. Your videos make it easy for me to do that. Keep up the great work! 👍🏻
Carly I love your new brand ideas as I have all three: PTSD, Anxiety and Depression! I’m seeing a therapist for all three and currently taking brand name Zoloft 200mg per day. Thanks for your tornado 🌪 videos especially Jarrell, Moore, Joplin, Phil Campbell/Hackleburg, and Mayfield! Keep up the great work! Looking forward to being a Patreon helper as well! Have a good day! Please pet Blaze for me! ❤️ 🐈
I’m also on Zoloft. A lot of people say it makes you more aggressive, but it did the total opposite for me. I used to have such a short temper, not anymore.
You might want to examine the 1974 tornado, that went from Saylor park, to Xenia Ohio tornado. I remember the wind gauge at the Lunken airport being broken at 340 mph. Technically, an "F6". Asphalt was scoured from roads, and highways. I saw the pictures. Yes, I lived about 30 miles from it.
Carly an example of an ef6 would have probably been the 1925 tri-state tornado. I hope your Kitteh is good. ❤
I'm SO excited for Two Storms!! I love what it stands for and the first design launch looks so good.⛈💕 So hyped!
1953 Flint tornado was suspected as having wind speed of 330 in part of Beacher .
330mph is nuts that would take down a skyscraper
Thank you so much for your content, Carly. I've been fascinated by weather since I was a child so your channel is amazing. Keep on keeping on :)
The Oakfield, WI F5 on 7-18-1996 was strong enough to bend steel rebar. Estimated wind speed was 265MPH.
Wasnt barneveld higher wind speeds?
My dad told me a story of a tornado that ripped through our neighborhood back in the early 70’s. This tornado wasn’t noticed by anyone and it only took a couple barns but it intensified when it hit a paved road and according to my dad and all the neighbors it ripped up the pavement on this paved road and rolled it like a pretzel. I mentioned this to someone from Oklahoma and he said that tornado should have been an F5 for doing that.
2013 El Reno based on mobile doppler, behavior, forward speed of some of the suction vortices, and overall diameter of wind field. I'd say that was inconcievable
Without considering damage, that tornado was way more than an EF5 for sure
As a meteorologist specializing in tornado field research & engineering for 35 yrs, I think you did a good job asking the right questions about the validity of the current EF scale. However, this topic is beyond the scope of meteorology and is better quantified by advanced physics, engineering (civil, structural, aeronautical), & material science. Doppler radar is good for mesoscale analysis, but is very basic & isn't capable of collecting/rendering what's going on inside major F/EF5+ tornadoes & why such extreme damage has been documented with these rare storms. A growing number in the engineering fields believe an updated F scale should be used that includes an F6+ rating. Firstly, mobile homes and trees should never be used in assessing a storms' strength - most won't make it past an F/EF2 - next, homes (even well-built), plazas, strip malls, farms won't survive a direct hit by an F/EF3 - next, structures built using a combination of reinforced brick, foundation block, concrete/steel will hold up better into an F/EF4 (depending on debris loads, surface area, & time) - next, with F/EF5 almost everything is swept away even in cities, but with a 5+ to 6 storm, damage/debris is unrecognizable - concrete is pulverized, asphalt is granulated, steel girders & i beams are twisted, sheared, penetrated, with animal/people remains being fragmented. Several storms have demonstrated this kind of power: imo, the most intense was Joplin MO. 2011 (May 22) - main hospital tower was torqued out of vertical apprx. 6 inches), El Reno/Moore OK. 2011 - El Reno lifted/rolled a 900 ton Cactus 117 oil drilling rig, Niles OH. Wheatland PA. 1985 - massive steel girders bent, twisted, penetrated in a destroyed steel mill/partial parking lot removal. These storms in particular did damage on another order of magnitude because of where the storms hit - total devastation in large commercial/heavy industry & infrastructure where structures are built to the highest standards available. New insights into wind dynamics that result in incredible destruction is found on the micro level and isn't found in college textbooks yet - some researchers are presenting their findings - more can be found when looking into physics & physical science/engineering (aeronautical): suction vortices, vortex shedding, laminar flow, supercritical/shock loading, harmonic resonance stress loading on materials - these fields are now realizing the very complicated wind/debris load dynamics in major storms with some calculations of 380-400+mph - and with some localized micro regions approaching the speed of sound (mach 1). The variables are too complicated to model accurately in any wind lab now - it's a combination of volumetric flow, funnel geometries, debris, topography, structure/material weight, density, porosity, rigidity/flexibility, shape, surface area, volume, anchoring/foundation, & time. It is very difficult to gather real world data during an emergency - sensors don't survive direct hits & researchers don't want to die in the pursuit of gathering data - so progress is slow, but new sensor technologies are being tested with updated computer modeling to follow - but since every storm is different, there isn't really a 'standard' to go by. Updated F scales should go in increments of 50mph. In summary using F scales: F0-2 can blow things down, F3-4 blows things away, F5-6 blows things apart - like explosive power - respect the power of Mother Nature -
I've always had kind of mixed feelings about _rating_ tornadoes. To me, it's really just about 2 things: Sticking a "label" on a tornado, and insurance evaluation. It seems to me that once you get into high-end EF-3 to EF-5 damage, it really doesn't matter... the damage is catastrophic. The lives lost, the people injured, the homes swept away, the businesses lost... how do you quantify that with a simple number? I guarantee that for the people that have been IN one of these tornadoes (EF3-5), they really don't care if it's called an EF3 or an EF5 (unless of course they are the kind that don't feel validated for their trauma unless it's rated EF5). Which brings me to my next point... how do we, as a society... kind of _invalidate_ the trauma of an EF3 survivor by saying, "well at least it wasn't an EF5"? They still might have lost everything, including family members, pets, jobs, irreplaceable mementoes, etc... but, hey... at least it wasn't an EF5, right? I've known for years that the F-6 (and higher) classifications exist... they have just _never been used_ in official documentation - or at least weren't permanently kept as record (the few downgrades to F/EF-5). I really enjoyed this video a lot Carly, and appreciate you bringing this up! Also, **Congratulations** on your brand launch!!! After the 1st expect some orders from me!! ❤
You're absolutely right! It doesn't really matter what the rating of a Tornado is, it IS Catastrophic To You If Your Home Is Damaged, Regardless Of The "EF Rating!"
I 100% agree. My town was hit in January of this year by a .75 mile wide EF3 that prompted Houston's first ever Tornado Emergency alert. Homes, Businesses, and churches were destroyed and a train derailed, yet People kept saying "well nobody got hurt so was it really an EF3". I have loved tornados all my life but I cant believe the amount of trauma people expect to see from certain tornado ratings. I apparently walked right next to a bus that was flipped over while trying to pick my daughter up from her elementary school which was 1 of 3 in the area the city that took direct hits. Like I said though, Nobody got hurt which is absolutely amazing.
@@Matt_TX Wow, I'm sorry you had to go through that, Matt, and I hope you and your family are getting your lives back.
OMG that ghost candle is just too cute 🥰
I grew up a few miles from Xenia, and was 12 when the tornado hit there in 1974. Still the weirdest and scariest looking weather day I've ever seen in my life. Part of it being how green the sky and air was. The light coming in through the curtains even made the inside of the house green looking. Also, the clouds were boiling. The tornado was unusual in two rare ways. One being it was called an F6 at first, but it was also a "dead-man walking" tornado. It shows briefly in that kind of famous video that a kid filmed with a video cam back then.
explaining the most devastating and scariest tornadoes as a lighthearted video was kinda confusing to me for a second until I went and looked at your other videos. makes total sense now lol. cant wait to watch more!
>Tornado with 450mph winds goes through Los Angeles, leaving no survivors and not a single building standing. Causes triple the highest monetary damage ever seen before
>NWS: It was an F4 guise
Wow! I discovered your channel due to this video. Well done and I'm looking forward to seeing what else you have done/will do! Thanks!
Beautiful setup. Love the cat painting
I'll be buying as soon as the launch gets here. I'm so excited by how far you've come. I will forever love your weather content as another female storm chaser at heart!
“Couldn’t you just make 10 louder?”
“But this one goes to 11!”
Might be a rambled mess...but like you said..this was supposed to be a more lightly and more of a free flowing video !! You still got your point across and was pretty clear about what you were trying to convey to your audience!! 😁👍 But as for the topic itself...I've seen the aftermath videos of some of these really nasty and awe inspiring tornadoes..and the damage of some of these tornadoes look to be almost as bad as the pictures you can find of Hiroshima and Nagasaki !! And those were more of a derecho type of damage...but in the case of Nagasaki the damage was to more industrial buildings than the traditional wood and clay houses of Hiroshima and the winds was up to 600 mph but all at once !! So if you really look at it..the violent F5s had winds of 300+ mph...but was a bit slower than an airburst atomic explosion !! So you could theoretically say that a tornado that caused the same damage as fat man but was not an explosion could do damage of at least 75% or up to 450 mph in strength!! Which would put it in a class of actually close to an F7 tbh !! Ha,but you and I should have at least three more good decades on this earth...and I'm sure that by then they should have the technology to measure the wind speeds...similarly to how they measure the wind speed of a hurricane by then !! But i think the biggest thing is for the government to implement newer technology to the housing blueprints in tornado prone areas to withstand higher wind speeds with less damage and loss of life!! Because as fun as it is to be in awe of mother nature's power,we are horrified by the total destruction and death the F3s and up can cause !! Lol..long post,but i had to add my two cents in on this one !!
Imagine if Dr. Ted Fujita was alive in the 2010s? He would definitely consider giving the F6 to the Philadelphia, Smithville and El Reno (2013) tornadoes
gahhhh I really wish. What an incredible man!
He wouldn't because guess what, the damage surveys don't support it.
@@VTMADDIE??? Yes he would there are no damage surveys on the F scale
Just stumbled upon your channel and I really like it. I like the Two Storms concept. Didn't get it at first but it's clever. Weathering the storm! I love it ❤ subscribing!
F6 damage would probably be really difficult to distinguish from F5 (slab sweep clean). How would it do more destruction than that? Also I would like to request a video about the 1999 Mulhall F4. Cannot find anything about it on any platform. Love your videos, keep up the good work!
There are above ground storm shelters that are rated for EF5s, and they've been fine in Moore and Joplin. If we saw those snapped off the slab, that'd be pretty terrifying.
@@Vexas345 My thought was on the, if I'm not mistaken, 2011 Hackleburg EF5 where an underground basement/shelter had part of its roof moved a few centimetres, with the house above it swept clean off its foundation
@@eo7212 It was definitely up there. I don't know what windspeed it'd end up being, but I think that's kind of the next level. If even people in well designed tornado shelters can't survive, so either people have to be out of the way, or in like FEMA bunkers or something crazy strong like that.
Good discussion! Science continuously evolves and when one question gets answred, it brings dozens more! As we have better ways to measure wind speed, account for variables such as those you mentioned, and look at other variables (such as estimates of how much water the storm dumped, how many lightning strikes were there, how much hail and what size it was--all of the components of the storm), the way the scale is measured should change with more informed data. Those changes don't mean the original scale was wrong and don't cast aspersions in any way. They mean we know more and have gotten better in analyzing storms.
i’m sick with a cold and i’ve been binging your videos for 2 days now😭 have you talked about the 2012 derecho that hit West Virginia? i know it hit other places but i live in WV and i was without power for weeks and the wind was insaneeee
I live in WV as well ( in the summer) and that derecho was intense to say the least. I have also watched first hand tornado damage that was caused by a tornado, no doubt in my mind, but was still called straight line wind damage. Insurance companies are shady to say the least.
How bout the Shinnston WV tornado that killed 100 people?
@@Joker938 omg yes the deadliest tornado in WV history, when people around here tell me we can’t have tornadoes i tell them to look that up
The Fujita scale is an outdated way of measuring the intensity of tornadoes because it only takes into account the wind speeds and damage caused by the tornado. It does not take into account the size, shape, and other characteristics of the tornado that may affect its damage potential.
Additionally, the Fujita scale was originally developed to measure tornadoes in the United States and cannot be accurately applied to other countries with different building and infrastructure patterns. It is also a subjective measurement system, which can lead to inconsistencies in how tornado intensity is measured.
A way better version of measuring tornadoes would be taking into account
Ground scouring
Debris granulation
Vehicle damage
Using Doppler radars
Photogrammetry
Simulated environments if needed
Absolutely awesome video 👍🏽
F6 - lord hope not. We just 0:02 went thru an ugly F1 - extensive damage to several neighbors farms (March 31). First experience was our home getting sides wiped in 1965. Came face to face with one while driving June 10, 1979 - (no watch or warning that day in Monroe WI) fortunately it suddenly turned and went north.
the Jarrell and the El Reno Tornadoes were some of the most terrifying imo, El Reno was not only such a large formation but it was truly an erratic monster which made even more terrifying.
I personally don’t agree with the new tendency to use EF4 for absolutely devastating tornadoes like the Mayfield tornado or Rolling Fork tornado as 2 recent examples. Both caused significant structural damage to well built structures including a water tower and a large brick buildings and slabbed homes.
I just found your channel today but seeing what you are doing with two storms is inspiring. I lost one of my best friends to suicide last April and he himself was a meteorologist and storm chaser. Nothing will ever bring him back but I can’t help but think how the work you do could have helped him. My hope and prayer is that your work can and will help others like him so that others may not lose their battle. He has been heavy on my mind recently and seeing this message this morning has helped me feel peace, so thank you.
Town is wiped out 2+ feet ground scouring. NWS: EF-4 199 MPH. 🤣
I will be keeping a close eye on you guys on Monday and Tuesday from my phone in Bristol England! Stay safe and I pray know body gets hurt! Incredible videos and amazing sights! All quiet at the moment so get some rest for the coming chase! 🌪️
An F6 in my opinion is when people are not safe even in a basement.
Even Dr. Ted Fujita, the father of the F scale, theorized this and stated that the Zenia, OH tornado should have been rated as such. I can argue that even the Jerel, Texas tornado may have approached this threshold.
If the Fujita scale was infinite, what EF would the great Red Spot on Jupiter be? 😆
EF 42069
What is crazy to me, since the tri state 1925 tornado. There has been over 100k tornados in the USA and we still can't decide a rating correctly. Doesn't, make since and I also believe that the reason they don't issue EF5 in because of insurance companies getting involved.