This one is promising, but I haven't tried to cut Aluminum with it yet: www.amazon.com/Machine-4040-XE-Spindle-Engraving-Engravable/dp/B08M96HHKW/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=cnc+router+4040&qid=1605163511&sr=8-1 I will be making a serious video on that CNC machine in the near future. At that price piont I think your only other option is to DIY something.
@@ClintonCaraway-CNC I went with sainsmart 3018 to test the waters. I'm stuck at resetting machine coordinates to zero. Been trying and researching for the past few days with no avail. getting frustrated for sure.
@@pentachronic I'm in a few of them. I'm having issue with machine zero coordinates. Got everything else. Seems like I'm missing the software side of it. Playing with Candle atm.
It was cutting metal parts that were good enough to work but needed a couple changes to cut better (not more parts). I've been cutting metal on my machine for 10 years (it's a couple tiers up from that machine) *Tips for anyone trying to cut ALU or Brass:* 1. *Suck the bit up* as far in the collet as you can (not on the flutes, but as close as you can). It makes a big difference. 2. *Deep cutter-width slots are a no-no!* Set your profile cuts at least to at least *1.5x cutter width* (also helps with clearing chips). It will take twice as many passes, but your bit will thank you and your surface finish will be much better. 3. profile cutting: if you can, precut/drill a hole in the middle and make sure your path starts from the hole. You will be able to take deeper cuts as it is *side-cutting instead of slotting* (As soon as saw your deep narrow slot, I knew immediately it would break a bits and/or lose steps.) 4. If cutting dry/air only: *Use WD40* Frequent squirts cool the bit and give it a coating that resists chips sticking. 5. *Buy better/midrange cutters* $5-8 cutters make your machine cut so much better than $1-3 cheapies. (don't buy expensive cutters until you learn how not to break them) 6. *Cut chips not dust!* Dust = wearing out bits fast with almost no material removal. (small chips are ok, but grey dust isn't) 7. *Don't cut steel.* Just don't. Your machine will damage it's self even if you can't see the damage immediately. e.g. My motor shaft coupler started slowly fatigue cracking and then later snapped and caused a nasty crash that actually bent my Z ballscrew... sniffle. Purchasing tip: 8. Get a machine with the largest dia *ballscrews (not leadscrews)* and largest rails you can. The water cooled spindles are also much quieter. Upgrade tip: 9. *Flood coolant* with water/cutting fluid: if you plan to cut metal a lot and are willing to set it up, this *will massively increase your machine's cutting capability.* Seriously, I went from struggling to cut metal at all - to wondering how far I should push my cuts. Not only does it blast chips away and cool the bit, but it also reduces vibrations and noise! (straight water will rust everything including your cutter's crisp edge needed to cut well) I use a cheap fountain pump and water soluble cutting fluid. My machine sits on a tilted table with angle alu edges to keep the water in, then it all runs into a rubbermade tote with the pump in it. Linelock makes directing the flow much easier and isn't too expensive for a foot or so of it, but I started with a coat hanger wire ziptied to a piece of hose! PS. I'm not saying you should go back and try that machine again. It is just going to be on the painful side. But it was doing it until the too deep narrow slot started chattering too much. So for anyone else, who already has a machine and can't afford to just go buy another machine, I hope these tips help.
Videos like this - where things Don't work out - are way more truthful and helpful than polished and edited videos where everything works perfect the first time. Thank you, sir!
This video will save countless viewers from failure for aluminium routing projects - thanks for the time, effort and expense you went through to produce this video.
Actual machinist here: It may seem odd, but you can often remove chatter by increasing feed, or decreasing rpm. Keeping a high load on the cutter makes it unable to jump around. Adjusting feed/RPM while making a cut is a good way to find the right numbers. What the read in online calculators is just a starting number, you find the ones you need by adjusting and listening.
That's definitely true, and part of the problem with these little hobby machines is that they generally don't have enough muscle to give a carbide bit what it wants to eat.
That is true for a better setup, but this is likely due to a lack of rigidity and power that will not be overcome without losing your precision. Might work to a degree for roughing but I doubt it in this setup.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper I think people glorify carbide as an industry standard whan HSS is generally a better option for low power machines too. It's easier to get it to bite since has a finer edge usually.
@@brahtrumpwonbigly7309 It's surprising how dull most carbide inserts are when new, and that's part of the problem. You need more force to get the duller insert to cut, but since it's such a hard alloy the additional force doesn't speed up the dulling process like it would with HSS, it just ends up cutting better. Maybe the really high end carbide tools have a better edge, but those are usually out of my price range. I hit mine with a fine grit diamond wheel if possible right out of the box and less aggressive feed rates work a lot better, but they're still just a bit more susceptible to chatter than HSS is. Could be due to a more rigid tool and harmonics, I don't really know to be honest. The slop in a cheap machine plays a big part in that, so unless I need carbide, HSS does most of the cutting in my shop. It's also pretty handy because I can forge, shape, and sharpen HSS to whatever kind of cutting tool I want...carbide is way out of my league LOL
I'm used to larger, corded routers ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxfQ5_mgwq6PcudJvAH25t-I4D-3cTPz4z so this was a different experience for me. Basically, this is an incredibly sweet machine, fits well in the hand, etc. It has slightly less power than I'm used to, but that's understandable. Maneuvering freehand takes some practice. These days, it's especially nice to be able to avoid power cords. This is above the level of a hobbyist but below a pro level.
Your upper left and liwer right quadrants are swapped from industry standard. IOW :"X" is always called first in a geometric expression, "Y" is always called second, "Z" is therefore third, etc.. And a good reason to set your work station coordinates in the middle of a part is when you are working on a part that is round and you're doing work in the center of the round feature, as in cutting a tapered pipe thread (inside or ourside) into the feature. Another good reason would be that your blueprint establishes the origin at a feature well onto the part. Say, in a program meant to cut a block plate for the bellhousing mounting surface of an engine. Those are almost always given an origin at the center of the engine's crankshaft.
Yes, that’s what I was wondering. It just kind of seemed different from what I’ve been seeing and doing on my lathe and mill. Anyway I loved your video and would love to see you try to cut using a coolant like WD-40!!
I was wondering if anyone else caught that. I ran that section of the video three times to endure I hadn't misunderstood and that the horizontal line was the x axis.
To avoid aluminium sticking to the bit you need to take larger chips. The heat caused by the cut will be ejected with the chip, limiting heat buildup in the stock. Ideally you need a faster feedrate, but you may have to try a slower spindle RPM if faster moves are out of the question. Also compressed air to blow away the chips will be helpful.
How come no one has suggested using coated end mills. Even the cheap titanium coatings would be helpful here but there are many more advanced coatings which are all designed mostly for this specific issue. Your comment regarding chip loading absolutely applies as well.
This is a fantastic video. I've been playing with a dirt cheap 3018 for over a year which has taught me a lot but I learned loads more from this vid. I will just note that the title should have been "Proving That It Is Impossible To CNC Cut Metal For Under $400".
A channel named "Awesome CNC Freak" recently made a vid on how to upgrade this machine. He decreased the backlash, the chatter, and even milled steel. They look like low cost improvements; he used the original motor but added pulleys and a better spindle. I'm super tempted to try.
You were a huge part my 3d printer start back when you did alot of the delta style printers. That tevo little monster was a dream of mine lol. Glad to see your videos popping back up on my feed. Always enjoy your explanations and indepth approach for all of us who are alittle slow or new to this type of hobby. Makes you feel confident about taking on the next challenge. Awesome video as always
You're absolutely right! I'm totally going to rezero my MR-1 with the positive all available, although obviously the z axis will still go negative, but I think I will like it much better also.
I bought a 4180 machine of similar quality and even added the same 500 watt spindle . It's fine for wood or plastic but yeah for aluminum it's a struggle . I saw a fellow who said the run out in the spindle was bad because there is a rubber bushing around the drive shaft bearing to cut motor vibration but of course it causes runout as the shaft can bend inside the rubber bushing! He was a machinist and replaced the rubber bushing with brass bushing he made on his lathe. Thanks for the great explanation of hardware and software for milling , cad and cam too. ☺
If you get a little tub of "MIG Dip" from a welding store, and dip your cutters into the compound, it helps prevent the aluminum from sticking to the cutter, it helps to heat the cutters to 110° or so to liquefy the dip compound
I have the FoxAlien vasto. It’s a great machine for aluminum so far. Ball type Leadscrews all around. Motor couplings for easy upgrading. Heavy duty Dual linear carriages with rails for extra rigidity. 3 different sizes spindle holders.
A few tips: keep your cutter as short as possible. Use cutting fluid. Use the lowest RPM that will cut effectively. Keep your feed rates as high as possible. Climb cut whenever possible for better finishes, except when you have lots of backlash in your axes. Make starting holes with a drill bit before plunging with a mill bit. (two setups, though). Rigidity is the most important thing for clean cutting.
My first comment to you is about the topic of starting in the logically appropriate position on your workspace (and physically on your work piece). This is your piece of wood or something more expensive (like metal or stone or whatever). I used to have a CNC plasma table and I told the builder of my table that I don't want my table to start in the middle of the work piece because of waste and he changed the focus to the lower left position. I don't remember any problem with +,+ vs -,- because my tool could run a dummy or sample of the program so this would visually SHOW where the head of the machine would travel. This would therefore validate if being too low is a problem. This is the right way to start anyway (in my opinion) I agree with you. The major reason I was not satisfied with my machine was because of one feature in how it was built. I know now that it was built using the wrong technology (the most important part) that affected the accuracy of the head. The X and Y and Z movement on my machine was being controlled by straight cut gears, the worst choice. No matter how the adjustments were made these gears would affect the quality of the curve or corner of each movement. It was after this that I was then noticing so many ads for so many machines were now becoming available.
In the world of machine shops either the work is held still or the tool is held still and sometimes both. If it is rigidity you want switch all motion functions to the bed to which you fix your work, so the bed moves X and Y and Z and the tool is rigid and solid. Just like the big boys.
Good to see a review on this machine. I didn't see if there were any drivers needed to install the CNC to your computer. Sorry I'm a total doofus when it comes to IT. I think the stage with the drivers was skipped. It's where a lot of people seem to have trouble with the other small machines. They can't find the drivers for their machines for this or that OS. Mostly the drivers are for Windows machines but people may want to use Mac's or Linux computers. I've seen people using both Mac's and Linux systems to control the cheaper CNC machines so it must be possible etc. But as far as I can see it's not clear what's needed to make them work, so the stage of using UGS can be reached.
The Benbox board on the 1310 uses a plug-in Arduino Nano clone. If it's a faithful clone then it should work out of the box on Windows, linux and macOS using the standard FTDI USBSerial drivers that ship with those operating systems. More likely, though, it uses a CH340x or CH341x USBSerial chip so you'll need the appropriate driver which you can download for Windows, linux and macOS from www.wch.cn/downloads/CH341SER_ZIP.html
@@anthonyrich1592 That's extremely useful. Thanks. I've got a little Windows 10 netbook I'll be using to control the machine myself but I've seen more than a few people posting about not being able to find drivers. It might be that if this board is easily recognised, it may give the product an edge over boards which need proprietary drivers etc. Hopefully your comments will help others who come looking.
I had a cheap 3018 that I upgraded to a 500wat spindle and circuit board to. And found that harder Aluminum cut better as the softer stuff gums up the tooling and causes the tool to wonder. if you cant buy harder Aluminum then uses a lot of coolant. don't use oil as it will cause it to thicken up and go gloopy Also use a single flute bit, If you have a good cam software that supports adaptive cutting then it will definitely help the chatter problem If not then look at your ramps Meaning the angle of let say 2 degrees will help a lot And be aggressive as to the cut that that the machine can handle and then use a nice finishing pass
Thank you. You just saved me a lot of time, money and frustration on buying or DIYing such kind of machine. It turns out that for my needs it's cheaper and better quality just to order required parts (tested with 3d print) in some kind of CNC cutting workshop.
I'm into one of these as well in fact I bought the 3018 as a test model to design a better one using SBR linear rails and 12mm ball screws and a 500 watt motor......3/4 finished but still on the back burner due to another project taking more priority........I would have to say that the one in the video is totally adequate as long as you don't push it ....scaling is a factor you have to experience and it won't like forcing the cut..........aluminium must be cut wet or you'll always get a cutter weldon with the chips.
Check Alex Moon's videos, he figured out how to mill aluminium with a CNC1310. He uses a much faster spindle. I have the 500W spindle you have and only goes only to 11000 rpm . I think we need more speed.
Hello, just as an FYI if you are cutting aluminum. Use Varsol as a lubicant and coolant. Thats machining 101. Aluminum is very Gummy and a low melting temp thats why its gumming up the tool. No charge by the way.😁 Do not use Carbide with alluminum. Carbide likes to work at high temps not good for alu. Use HSS (High Speed Steel) 2 fllute.
The soft aluminum you used is too soft for proper milling without cooling. I tried that once during an internship with a professional milling machine and it was just chewing gum.
I remember LibreCAD when I played with pen-plotting! Neato EDIT: I split this watch-through into two segments and it's very informative to see how BAD these things chatter! Wowza
3 flute is way too big for a machine this size. youll destroy bits like noones business. the more flutes you have the faster the spindle has to spin and the faster the machine needs to travel to get optimal chipload. a 1 flute or O flute works best on these smaller machines. if you produce dust you are burning bits if you produce chips the temp and friction on the bit is far less and the bits last 10x longer. also never buy crappy chinese bits. if your bits are less than $15 ea your running crap. i run Yonico on the cheaper side and Amana on the higher end side depending on the job determines the bit i will use.
You have switched the x and y axis I think. Normally, the X axis goes left to right, and the first coordinate is X. This means the the upper left rectangle is actually (-,+), not (+,-)
Clickbait title: "How to CNC cut metal for under $400" Then proceeds to say it cannot machine metal worth a damn even after attempted upgrades. An hour long video that could have been condensed into 10 minutes of explaining why it cannot happen with that machine...
I do alot of aluminium fabrication, I drill, countersink, circular saw with a tungsten tooth blade, jigsaw and router alloy, if I don't use a penetrating fluid or a stick wax it will only get hot and pickup on the bit as you have shown. It's a friction problem. Try slowing down the rpm to disperse the heat, not to slow to overload the bit. WD40 or a low vis cutting fluid. Hope it helps. Like your vid, thanks.
Hi Matt (is that your name), Bam, I subscribed. Great video. It shows the value of failure for education, which you make entertaining too. If you agree (that failure is important for success), then I’d ask you to carry on with this project and not give up altogether. Instead, learn from the failures, take on some of the points made in these comments above, about topics such as metallurgy, coolants, etc and continue to explore what’s needed to get this machine to do the job. You’re far from finished with it - I hope. Looking forward to an update later this year 😄
Hey man, what a great video packed full with quality information. Maybe you said it and I missed it, but did you use conventional or climb milling? Or both? The difference in outer dimensions vs. inner dimensions at around 41:40 could be explained by the mixed use of both milling types. I'm sure you know this already but climb tends to push the bit away from the material whereas conventional tends to pull the bit into the material. Also spring passes (100% overlap with the previous toolpath) could be used to get better dimensionality. At 43:14 you mention the problem you're having with chatter. In my experience with a similarly built cnc, it helps to experiment with different (scary low in my case but that of course depends on the machine) spindle speeds until you find a speed where the frequency of chip creation doesn't positively interfere with any of the machine's resonance frequencies. But that quickly becomes a shitshow ;). As for the optimal (literature) feeds and speeds: I tried them and they didn't work. My gut feeling is that those work on tormachs that actually have the required rigidity for those settings but they are incompatible with hobbyist-machines. To the cooling: I tried compressed air, but the airflow required to cool my parts was so high that it would bend the bit/shaft/motor-mount which would create even more heat and chatter. I had good luck with isopropanol as a cooling agent because it evaporates really fast and doesn't leave a mess. And about the adaptive clearing toolpaths: With a small workaround you can get Fusion360 to do those perfectly fine. Even with the free version afaik, but I understand that Fusion isn't as cool as it used to be due to their new pricing model. The last thing you shouldn't forget about is that aluminium is terrible at absorbing vibrations. It's light and stiff which is great because it will make the machine light and stiff ;) But at what cost? Professional machines are made mainly out of cast iron in part because of its dampening characteristics. In this case I think dampening the frame by different means might be an option. The easiest idea would be to print 0.5 to 1mm spacers out of petg which also has great dampening characteristics and put them in between each of the aluminium-aluminium joints on the machine. For that same reason, I think that those cnc machines like the foxalien or the shapeokos with openbuilds-styled delrin or nylon rollers are a great compromise because of the dampening characteristics of those rollers.
some of the larger hobby machines are definitely capable of cutting aluminum but you really want at bare minimum 1.5 kw spindle, 4-600 oz in steppers and a machine using cast parts and not extruded parts. cast iron is better than cast aluminum. but then youre talking a minimum of 2-3000 dollars for a machine like that. im building a gecko g540 machine using a completed chinese machine with cast iron parts and gutting it of all crap electronics and shitty wiring. but people hear CHEAP and they think wow i can do all that for $500 and its just a lie. I have over a thousand into my what started out as a 3018 that cost $300 and its capable of cutting wood great but wouldnt attempt it on any metal and the size is just too small for practicality.
It’s normally called a tool not a bit. CNC software has backlash compensation and lead screw compensation. Look at your feeds and speeds. Usually the electronics are in an enclosed box. You need way covers to protect your lead screws. You need a motion control algorithm with acceleration and deceleration.
welcome to the rabbit hole that is called cnc-ing metal. I fell in it too. Build myself a momus a couple of years ago. You wont stop upgrading once you see what others can do on youtube :-).. I can recommend the momus though if you like diy. You can build it using simple tools only (I know, I did) and its relatively cheap (In CNC, cheap is always relative :-) ) . Your cnc looks nice too although I fear you will one day upgrade the spindle motor. If you ever decide to spring for one of those chinese high speed spindles, do pick one with an ER16 collet though. Much more choices when selecting cutters as the ER11 only fits a maximum of 7mm and the choice for 8mm and up is really big. Don't ask me how I know...
If your bits came from China I can tell you that's gonna be a problem. I couldn't cut crap with the carbide china bits, got a brand name carbide bit and solved most of my cutting problems.
wait do not throw in the towel.... you are doing great... I can make the adaptive gcode for you, and you can try it again. 3mm single flute looks good but better to enter the material from outside rather start inside, chips will go out faster.
Thank you for such an excellently constructed and presented video - not just a great review of the machine, but a great source of information for anyone thinking of doing amateur CNC machining. I've been eager to get into this, but can't afford it. I keep being tempted by the cheap machines, and other reviews have highlighted things like rigidity and more powerful spindle motors etc, but your video covers the WHY and the real effects on the work - It would be so easy to think "get the machine, do a few upgrades, and you get fantastic precision and performance" - clearly it's not the case. There are certainly some things where quality of output critically depends on the quality of tools used, both mechanical components and software. Thanks for a fantastic video. I'm subscribing so that I'll spot your review of that larger machine.
I agree with you on the lower left of the machine should be 0,0 the only reason I can think that they would make the center of the cut area 0,0 is their programer doesn't have any real world experience. Most drafters, and other trades people were trained to use 0,0 as the lower left. in the end it doesn't really mater, it still math but it would bug me too!
Yes, I second this. We have a large tap at work used for cleaning up munged threads in aluminum. Some of my coworkers weren't using any lubricant, and aluminum spalling welded to the tap. I think I got the tip from AvE also, I mixed some crystal drain cleaner in water and soaked the tap overnight. In the morning, it looked like new after rinsing. No corrosion from the NaOH, all the aluminum eaten off.
Good video. I think most of your problems are due to low fee rate. A lot of heat is removed with the chips and with to low feed rate, then heat builds up since friction becomes more of a factor. Try doubling the feed rate and reducing the depth of cut or step over distance or both. I think you will have the same issue on your larger machine if you keep the same feeds and speeds. I have seen others successfully cutting aluminium with much less rigid machines than yours but using higher feed rates. Fusion 360 has built in adaptive tool paths for CNC so you might want to check it out.
I also prefer a positive only coordinate system. With a positive/negative central location system, if you get distracted for a moment, and you forget to sign your command, well... I would really only recommend conventional cutting with these machines. The rigidity is nonexistent. The motor itself isn’t meant for this. The new motor is much better. But the machine itself isn’t capable of taking usefully deep cuts for thicker metal. The new motor is far from the rails, giving it a greater ability to bounce up and down. So some of the chatter is due to that. The fan is wider than the motor body so that the flow moves around the sides of the motor. When the fan is the same diameter, you get a very turbulent flow because all of the air is now hitting the flat rear of the motor. Assuming this is designed properly. You know that aluminum sticks to cutters. You need bits coated for aluminum. Since you know you need coolant, I’m trying to understand why you’re not using it. I often use water diluted sawing coolant for much of my work. For this tiny machine, a few drops here and there is all you need. Why not use it? A slight mess is part of the game. Blowing these fine chips away is not the solution. I see at the very end you discuss that motor overhang. There is no way to eliminate that. My machine weighs around a ton, and it’s considered to be a light machine. Chatter still happens, though with much heavier cuts. I’ve played around with a CNC Sherline, and with anything more that a 0.002” cut, it vibrates like crazy. I don’t know how anyone gets anything done with these little devices.
Not half bad for the investment really I thought. Just my $0.02, but my personal experience with feed and speed calculators that most people do not take into consideration is they are ideals. i.e. perfect set-up, clamping, etc., proper machining application such as climb vs. conventional, chip evacuation, DOC, coolant, and very importantly - rigidity. Machine age and condition can affect the outcome greatly. Introduce any of those variables that are less than ideal, and throw the calculators out the window. We have a lot of really smart new hires coming through my place of employment that try (and not terribly successfully) to run our equipment at the calculated feeds and speeds that work on paper er..app? but end up closer to 50-75% of where they started.
Design Prototype Test, I don't know if anyone committed on this before, but I want to let you know that you made a mistake when explaining the Cartesian coordinates. The top right is (+,+), the top left is (-,+), the bottom left is (-,-), and the bottom right is (+,-). This is not criticism, just clarification. On the other hand, thank you for your very informative video.
The answer to the cantilever mount a second Gantry there's plenty enough room on the frame to do this. In this video a 3D printed the motor mount for the new motor with proper design he could have added the gantries remove the camp lever and strengthened the x, y axis of the motor relegating any swap in the cut to deficiencies in the motor the collet for the tools.
Like you said, you need the lighter cuts at faster feeds. You won’t get the friction welding if you are feeding fast enough to move away from the old material before it gets hot enough to melt Also, why not use fusion 360 CAM?
You should use alcohol when cutting aluminium, I use that blue stuff which is used for cleaning (I don't know the English term). I had the same problems even with a far better CNC machine, but all those problems went away when I started using alcohol as coolant/lubricant .
Overall I enjoyed the video, glad I watched to the end, but I do feel you were misleading at the beginning of the video, as well as in the title and description because you did give the impression that this $400 option was good and viable, but it the end you conclude otherwise. I think, at least, you should add an "Almost" in the video title. Looking forward to your video on the $1000 machine, and I'm hoping you can get it to cut metal well, because I, like so many other of your viewers, am looking forward to being able to do this sometime soon.
R.e. coordinate systems, since many parts are symmetrical about one or two axes centering the part at 0,0 will make it simpler to interpret coordinates as opposed to dealing with offsets for some of the features. I don't have a strong preference but that is one reason to center the home position.
I think that if you use a Makita router, you will get back a ton of performance, and also, (might be obvious) but thx to hoe to machine is build i think that you could install linear rails, without to much hassle
id like to see u do this video again with the new 3020 machines with the linear rails, some of them have it on all axis while most only have it for the x an z while the y are still on rods but are 12mm instead of 8mm so they are suppose to be alot more capable out of the box compared to the older 3018 machines.
Pro tip: those boards have swappable stepper drivers so switch them out with tmc 5160s (or whatever they're called), add a bigger power supply and beefier motors and you have a more powerful machine, with a spindle that can't cut for shit.
When I was machining I tried to use the plus plus quadrant. That would be awesome if color comp got introduced to a cheap CNC mill but I've only ran the real deal cncs.
Thanks for posting this, I found it very helpful, especially your run down on the software workflow. Just starting out and I hoped to find a machine and set of software tools where I could eventually run CNC, Laser Cutter, Waterjet, engraving and 3D print machines all using the same software set - In other words without having to learn a separate set of software for each type of shaping tool - maybe that is not possible now that I see how complex just the 3 axis CNC alone can be thanks to your explanation. I thought the benchtop form factor of that red machine has it's advantages if one is just trying to learn the software. Perhaps just to machine wax or delrin so a newbie could get going up the learning curve without a big investment.
Informative video. Knowing the limitations of the machine, wouldn't you drill a starter hole, zero that, go at a higher spindle rpm and if you couldn't nibble just reduce the feed speed?
There is a program called OctoPrint which can run on a RaspberryPi and is used to feed G-code to a 3D printer. Could this same type of setup be used to eliminate the need to keep the controller connected to your computer? If it's just sending G-code, I'll bet there is a solution out there.
If you get a chip trapped under the tool of any mill one of two things happen - any play in the machine will cause chatter or vibration or you will break the tool - even on largeish commercially made metal mills - you have to have realistic expectations - fit some steppers onto a commercial machine if you want to cut sizable chunks of metal - Stay safe.
Just curious, but how would this work on wood instead of metal? I'd like it to cut weird dovetail or box joints in wood up to 3/4". Seems like a reasonable price for that (and yes, I know a jig would be much cheaper, but not as geeky). Tx
Lye will probably do better when removing Al from HSS cutters. I'm sure the acid will attack the cutter where the lye will not. I have personal experience with lye on Al. The reaction is vigorous.
I think your problem is more feeds and speed + depth of cuts than rigidity. I use a gantry to cut Al I do use cnc wizard to get the optimum speed for depth of cut. I also use either penetrating spray (occasionally) oil or a cutting water mister. Based on your bits you are going too slow and building up more heat by recutting chips.
I think you were expecting too much. It would help if machine was bolted down, and it's mass increased, maybe fill it with concrete. A faster rotational speed, with not much stick out of the cutter (two or three flute is fine in ali), and take shallower cuts. You can't apply the same cutting parameters, as say Titan does. Many folk use wd40 as a cheap cutting fluid for ali, but milk is OK, too, even soapy water. Cutting perspex, plywood, and so forth, OK in your house, but for ali, better to have somewhere where mess can occur. Simple enough to make covers for the screws, etc. It looks a pretty solid construction, compared even to your bigger router, but needs a bit of tlc. btw, afaik, your explanation/diagram wrt x/y coords was wrong, (but I guess it was a long time since you were at school) and I noticed other stuff too, but you jammed in too much, imnsho. It's because of the fun of cutting metal/wood, that 3d printing is so popular...
What machine do you recommend to cut aluminum if the budget is $1000?
This one is promising, but I haven't tried to cut Aluminum with it yet: www.amazon.com/Machine-4040-XE-Spindle-Engraving-Engravable/dp/B08M96HHKW/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=cnc+router+4040&qid=1605163511&sr=8-1
I will be making a serious video on that CNC machine in the near future. At that price piont I think your only other option is to DIY something.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Thanks for replying. I'll have to look at that machine.
@@ClintonCaraway-CNC I went with sainsmart 3018 to test the waters. I'm stuck at resetting machine coordinates to zero. Been trying and researching for the past few days with no avail. getting frustrated for sure.
MPCNC
@@pentachronic I'm in a few of them. I'm having issue with machine zero coordinates. Got everything else. Seems like I'm missing the software side of it. Playing with Candle atm.
It was cutting metal parts that were good enough to work but needed a couple changes to cut better (not more parts). I've been cutting metal on my machine for 10 years (it's a couple tiers up from that machine)
*Tips for anyone trying to cut ALU or Brass:*
1. *Suck the bit up* as far in the collet as you can (not on the flutes, but as close as you can). It makes a big difference.
2. *Deep cutter-width slots are a no-no!* Set your profile cuts at least to at least *1.5x cutter width* (also helps with clearing chips). It will take twice as many passes, but your bit will thank you and your surface finish will be much better.
3. profile cutting: if you can, precut/drill a hole in the middle and make sure your path starts from the hole. You will be able to take deeper cuts as it is *side-cutting instead of slotting*
(As soon as saw your deep narrow slot, I knew immediately it would break a bits and/or lose steps.)
4. If cutting dry/air only: *Use WD40* Frequent squirts cool the bit and give it a coating that resists chips sticking.
5. *Buy better/midrange cutters* $5-8 cutters make your machine cut so much better than $1-3 cheapies. (don't buy expensive cutters until you learn how not to break them)
6. *Cut chips not dust!* Dust = wearing out bits fast with almost no material removal. (small chips are ok, but grey dust isn't)
7. *Don't cut steel.* Just don't. Your machine will damage it's self even if you can't see the damage immediately.
e.g. My motor shaft coupler started slowly fatigue cracking and then later snapped and caused a nasty crash that actually bent my Z ballscrew... sniffle.
Purchasing tip:
8. Get a machine with the largest dia *ballscrews (not leadscrews)* and largest rails you can. The water cooled spindles are also much quieter.
Upgrade tip:
9. *Flood coolant* with water/cutting fluid: if you plan to cut metal a lot and are willing to set it up, this *will massively increase your machine's cutting capability.*
Seriously, I went from struggling to cut metal at all - to wondering how far I should push my cuts.
Not only does it blast chips away and cool the bit, but it also reduces vibrations and noise! (straight water will rust everything including your cutter's crisp edge needed to cut well)
I use a cheap fountain pump and water soluble cutting fluid. My machine sits on a tilted table with angle alu edges to keep the water in, then it all runs into a rubbermade tote with the pump in it.
Linelock makes directing the flow much easier and isn't too expensive for a foot or so of it, but I started with a coat hanger wire ziptied to a piece of hose!
PS. I'm not saying you should go back and try that machine again. It is just going to be on the painful side. But it was doing it until the too deep narrow slot started chattering too much. So for anyone else, who already has a machine and can't afford to just go buy another machine, I hope these tips help.
Videos like this - where things Don't work out - are way more truthful and helpful than polished and edited videos where everything works perfect the first time. Thank you, sir!
This is what I thought too.
This video will save countless viewers from failure for aluminium routing projects - thanks for the time, effort and expense you went through to produce this video.
Agree
Actual machinist here: It may seem odd, but you can often remove chatter by increasing feed, or decreasing rpm.
Keeping a high load on the cutter makes it unable to jump around.
Adjusting feed/RPM while making a cut is a good way to find the right numbers. What the read in online calculators is just a starting number, you find the ones you need by adjusting and listening.
That's definitely true, and part of the problem with these little hobby machines is that they generally don't have enough muscle to give a carbide bit what it wants to eat.
That is true for a better setup, but this is likely due to a lack of rigidity and power that will not be overcome without losing your precision. Might work to a degree for roughing but I doubt it in this setup.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper I think people glorify carbide as an industry standard whan HSS is generally a better option for low power machines too. It's easier to get it to bite since has a finer edge usually.
@@brahtrumpwonbigly7309 It's surprising how dull most carbide inserts are when new, and that's part of the problem. You need more force to get the duller insert to cut, but since it's such a hard alloy the additional force doesn't speed up the dulling process like it would with HSS, it just ends up cutting better. Maybe the really high end carbide tools have a better edge, but those are usually out of my price range. I hit mine with a fine grit diamond wheel if possible right out of the box and less aggressive feed rates work a lot better, but they're still just a bit more susceptible to chatter than HSS is. Could be due to a more rigid tool and harmonics, I don't really know to be honest. The slop in a cheap machine plays a big part in that, so unless I need carbide, HSS does most of the cutting in my shop. It's also pretty handy because I can forge, shape, and sharpen HSS to whatever kind of cutting tool I want...carbide is way out of my league LOL
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper HSS will be better than cheap carbide over time. Good carbide however is unbeatable.
I'm used to larger, corded routers ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxfQ5_mgwq6PcudJvAH25t-I4D-3cTPz4z so this was a different experience for me. Basically, this is an incredibly sweet machine, fits well in the hand, etc. It has slightly less power than I'm used to, but that's understandable. Maneuvering freehand takes some practice. These days, it's especially nice to be able to avoid power cords. This is above the level of a hobbyist but below a pro level.
Your upper left and liwer right quadrants are swapped from industry standard. IOW :"X" is always called first in a geometric expression, "Y" is always called second, "Z" is therefore third, etc..
And a good reason to set your work station coordinates in the middle of a part is when you are working on a part that is round and you're doing work in the center of the round feature, as in cutting a tapered pipe thread (inside or ourside) into the feature. Another good reason would be that your blueprint establishes the origin at a feature well onto the part. Say, in a program meant to cut a block plate for the bellhousing mounting surface of an engine. Those are almost always given an origin at the center of the engine's crankshaft.
My dyslexia kicked in and I reversed those two quadrants. Woops! My bad. Hopefully a million people don't see this video too. :)
Yes, that’s what I was wondering. It just kind of seemed different from what I’ve been seeing and doing on my lathe and mill. Anyway I loved your video and would love to see you try to cut using a coolant like WD-40!!
No wonder you like working in the +,+ quadrant :)
I was wondering if anyone else caught that. I ran that section of the video three times to endure I hadn't misunderstood and that the horizontal line was the x axis.
Thought the video was mirrored or something
To avoid aluminium sticking to the bit you need to take larger chips. The heat caused by the cut will be ejected with the chip, limiting heat buildup in the stock. Ideally you need a faster feedrate, but you may have to try a slower spindle RPM if faster moves are out of the question. Also compressed air to blow away the chips will be helpful.
How come no one has suggested using coated end mills. Even the cheap titanium coatings would be helpful here but there are many more advanced coatings which are all designed mostly for this specific issue. Your comment regarding chip loading absolutely applies as well.
This is a fantastic video. I've been playing with a dirt cheap 3018 for over a year which has taught me a lot but I learned loads more from this vid. I will just note that the title should have been "Proving That It Is Impossible To CNC Cut Metal For Under $400".
A channel named "Awesome CNC Freak" recently made a vid on how to upgrade this machine. He decreased the backlash, the chatter, and even milled steel.
They look like low cost improvements; he used the original motor but added pulleys and a better spindle. I'm super tempted to try.
You were a huge part my 3d printer start back when you did alot of the delta style printers. That tevo little monster was a dream of mine lol. Glad to see your videos popping back up on my feed. Always enjoy your explanations and indepth approach for all of us who are alittle slow or new to this type of hobby. Makes you feel confident about taking on the next challenge. Awesome video as always
You had me at "parts for your pew pew"
LOL I know right, you know pew pew nothing suspicious going on here.
Probably obfuscation due to UA-cam-algorithm paternalism
Same lol
You're absolutely right! I'm totally going to rezero my MR-1 with the positive all available, although obviously the z axis will still go negative, but I think I will like it much better also.
That part where you used a frequency generator to "tune" the motor speed was 👌 That's awesome
Thanks for the recognition man. I hope you have yourself a wonderful day.
We are looking forward to watching the deep review of the CNC 4040-XE.
I want onee! May order soon. I want to know the capabilities. I’m a tool and die maker and I want something to play with at home!!!
I bought a 4180 machine of similar quality and even added the same 500 watt spindle . It's fine for wood or plastic but yeah for aluminum it's a struggle . I saw a fellow who said the run out in the spindle was bad because there is a rubber bushing around the drive shaft bearing to cut motor vibration but of course it causes runout as the shaft can bend inside the rubber bushing! He was a machinist and replaced the rubber bushing with brass bushing he made on his lathe. Thanks for the great explanation of hardware and software for milling , cad and cam too. ☺
If you get a little tub of "MIG Dip" from a welding store, and dip your cutters into the compound, it helps prevent the aluminum from sticking to the cutter, it helps to heat the cutters to 110° or so to liquefy the dip compound
I await the upgraded version with a duet board, sensorless homing and a part cooling duct 😛
One of the most real world reviews I've seen, thanks.
Thank you for making such thorough videos consistently
I have the FoxAlien vasto. It’s a great machine for aluminum so far. Ball type Leadscrews all around. Motor couplings for easy upgrading. Heavy duty Dual linear carriages with rails for extra rigidity. 3 different sizes spindle holders.
A few tips: keep your cutter as short as possible. Use cutting fluid. Use the lowest RPM that will cut effectively. Keep your feed rates as high as possible. Climb cut whenever possible for better finishes, except when you have lots of backlash in your axes. Make starting holes with a drill bit before plunging with a mill bit. (two setups, though). Rigidity is the most important thing for clean cutting.
My first comment to you is about the topic of starting in the logically appropriate position on your workspace (and physically on your work piece). This is your piece of wood or something more expensive (like metal or stone or whatever). I used to have a CNC plasma table and I told the builder of my table that I don't want my table to start in the middle of the work piece because of waste and he changed the focus to the lower left position. I don't remember any problem with +,+ vs -,- because my tool could run a dummy or sample of the program so this would visually SHOW where the head of the machine would travel. This would therefore validate if being too low is a problem. This is the right way to start anyway (in my opinion) I agree with you.
The major reason I was not satisfied with my machine was because of one feature in how it was built. I know now that it was built using the wrong technology (the most important part) that affected the accuracy of the head. The X and Y and Z movement on my machine was being controlled by straight cut gears, the worst choice. No matter how the adjustments were made these gears would affect the quality of the curve or corner of each movement. It was after this that I was then noticing so many ads for so many machines were now becoming available.
In the world of machine shops either the work is held still or the tool is held still and sometimes both. If it is rigidity you want switch all motion functions to the bed to which you fix your work, so the bed moves X and Y and Z and the tool is rigid and solid. Just like the big boys.
I think the gantry style of router is a problem for harder metals.
I am an everlasting font of optimism. I keep watching, hoping it will get better.
This is why i go on with my slow EDM = Electrical Discharge Machining ... no forces at all in XYZ.
May the force be with you !
Where do you get one for under $1000?
Good to see a review on this machine. I didn't see if there were any drivers needed to install the CNC to your computer. Sorry I'm a total doofus when it comes to IT. I think the stage with the drivers was skipped. It's where a lot of people seem to have trouble with the other small machines. They can't find the drivers for their machines for this or that OS. Mostly the drivers are for Windows machines but people may want to use Mac's or Linux computers. I've seen people using both Mac's and Linux systems to control the cheaper CNC machines so it must be possible etc. But as far as I can see it's not clear what's needed to make them work, so the stage of using UGS can be reached.
The Benbox board on the 1310 uses a plug-in Arduino Nano clone.
If it's a faithful clone then it should work out of the box on Windows, linux and macOS using the standard FTDI USBSerial drivers that ship with those operating systems.
More likely, though, it uses a CH340x or CH341x USBSerial chip so you'll need the appropriate driver which you can download for Windows, linux and macOS from www.wch.cn/downloads/CH341SER_ZIP.html
@@anthonyrich1592 That's extremely useful. Thanks. I've got a little Windows 10 netbook I'll be using to control the machine myself but I've seen more than a few people posting about not being able to find drivers. It might be that if this board is easily recognised, it may give the product an edge over boards which need proprietary drivers etc. Hopefully your comments will help others who come looking.
I had a cheap 3018 that I upgraded to a 500wat spindle and circuit board to.
And found that harder Aluminum cut better as the softer stuff gums up the tooling and causes the tool to wonder.
if you cant buy harder Aluminum then uses a lot of coolant. don't use oil as it will cause it to thicken up and go gloopy
Also use a single flute bit,
If you have a good cam software that supports adaptive cutting then it will definitely help the chatter problem
If not then look at your ramps
Meaning the angle of let say 2 degrees will help a lot
And be aggressive as to the cut that that the machine can handle and then use a nice finishing pass
Thank you for scouting ahead on the path. As someone who hopes to follow, you have my gratitude.
Thank you. You just saved me a lot of time, money and frustration on buying or DIYing such kind of machine. It turns out that for my needs it's cheaper and better quality just to order required parts (tested with 3d print) in some kind of CNC cutting workshop.
WD40 to reduce prevent that aluminum from adhering to the carbide.
I'm into one of these as well in fact I bought the 3018 as a test model to design a better one using SBR linear rails and 12mm ball screws and a 500 watt motor......3/4 finished but still on the back burner due to another project taking more priority........I would have to say that the one in the video is totally adequate as long as you don't push it ....scaling is a factor you have to experience and it won't like forcing the cut..........aluminium must be cut wet or you'll always get a cutter weldon with the chips.
Check Alex Moon's videos, he figured out how to mill aluminium with a CNC1310. He uses a much faster spindle. I have the 500W spindle you have and only goes only to 11000 rpm . I think we need more speed.
Thank you for the reference to Alex Moon, interesting. He is using a WindWard S4225-B24 spindle which is around 400$ on its own...
Hello, just as an FYI if you are cutting aluminum. Use Varsol as a lubicant and coolant. Thats machining 101. Aluminum is very Gummy and a low melting temp thats why its gumming up the tool. No charge by the way.😁 Do not use Carbide with alluminum. Carbide likes to work at high temps not good for alu. Use HSS (High Speed Steel) 2 fllute.
You can remove the aluminium on the end of a bit soaking in an acid such as sodiem chlorate, can help prevent damaging the bit by scraping.
The soft aluminum you used is too soft for proper milling without cooling. I tried that once during an internship with a professional milling machine and it was just chewing gum.
I remember LibreCAD when I played with pen-plotting! Neato
EDIT: I split this watch-through into two segments and it's very informative to see how BAD these things chatter! Wowza
Fusion 360 will do the adaptive toolpaths...I would try a 3 flute endmill also- less thump.
3 flute is way too big for a machine this size. youll destroy bits like noones business. the more flutes you have the faster the spindle has to spin and the faster the machine needs to travel to get optimal chipload. a 1 flute or O flute works best on these smaller machines. if you produce dust you are burning bits if you produce chips the temp and friction on the bit is far less and the bits last 10x longer. also never buy crappy chinese bits. if your bits are less than $15 ea your running crap. i run Yonico on the cheaper side and Amana on the higher end side depending on the job determines the bit i will use.
You have switched the x and y axis I think. Normally, the X axis goes left to right, and the first coordinate is X. This means the the upper left rectangle is actually (-,+), not (+,-)
Clickbait title:
"How to CNC cut metal for under $400"
Then proceeds to say it cannot machine metal worth a damn even after attempted upgrades.
An hour long video that could have been condensed into 10 minutes of explaining why it cannot
happen with that machine...
I do alot of aluminium fabrication, I drill, countersink, circular saw with a tungsten tooth blade, jigsaw and router alloy, if I don't use a penetrating fluid or a stick wax it will only get hot and pickup on the bit as you have shown. It's a friction problem. Try slowing down the rpm to disperse the heat, not to slow to overload the bit. WD40 or a low vis cutting fluid. Hope it helps. Like your vid, thanks.
Hi Matt (is that your name),
Bam, I subscribed. Great video. It shows the value of failure for education, which you make entertaining too.
If you agree (that failure is important for success), then I’d ask you to carry on with this project and not give up altogether.
Instead, learn from the failures, take on some of the points made in these comments above, about topics such as metallurgy, coolants, etc and continue to explore what’s needed to get this machine to do the job. You’re far from finished with it - I hope.
Looking forward to an update later this year 😄
Hey man, what a great video packed full with quality information. Maybe you said it and I missed it, but did you use conventional or climb milling? Or both? The difference in outer dimensions vs. inner dimensions at around 41:40 could be explained by the mixed use of both milling types. I'm sure you know this already but climb tends to push the bit away from the material whereas conventional tends to pull the bit into the material. Also spring passes (100% overlap with the previous toolpath) could be used to get better dimensionality.
At 43:14 you mention the problem you're having with chatter. In my experience with a similarly built cnc, it helps to experiment with different (scary low in my case but that of course depends on the machine) spindle speeds until you find a speed where the frequency of chip creation doesn't positively interfere with any of the machine's resonance frequencies. But that quickly becomes a shitshow ;). As for the optimal (literature) feeds and speeds: I tried them and they didn't work. My gut feeling is that those work on tormachs that actually have the required rigidity for those settings but they are incompatible with hobbyist-machines.
To the cooling: I tried compressed air, but the airflow required to cool my parts was so high that it would bend the bit/shaft/motor-mount which would create even more heat and chatter. I had good luck with isopropanol as a cooling agent because it evaporates really fast and doesn't leave a mess.
And about the adaptive clearing toolpaths: With a small workaround you can get Fusion360 to do those perfectly fine. Even with the free version afaik, but I understand that Fusion isn't as cool as it used to be due to their new pricing model.
The last thing you shouldn't forget about is that aluminium is terrible at absorbing vibrations. It's light and stiff which is great because it will make the machine light and stiff ;) But at what cost? Professional machines are made mainly out of cast iron in part because of its dampening characteristics. In this case I think dampening the frame by different means might be an option. The easiest idea would be to print 0.5 to 1mm spacers out of petg which also has great dampening characteristics and put them in between each of the aluminium-aluminium joints on the machine. For that same reason, I think that those cnc machines like the foxalien or the shapeokos with openbuilds-styled delrin or nylon rollers are a great compromise because of the dampening characteristics of those rollers.
some of the larger hobby machines are definitely capable of cutting aluminum but you really want at bare minimum 1.5 kw spindle, 4-600 oz in steppers and a machine using cast parts and not extruded parts. cast iron is better than cast aluminum. but then youre talking a minimum of 2-3000 dollars for a machine like that. im building a gecko g540 machine using a completed chinese machine with cast iron parts and gutting it of all crap electronics and shitty wiring. but people hear CHEAP and they think wow i can do all that for $500 and its just a lie. I have over a thousand into my what started out as a 3018 that cost $300 and its capable of cutting wood great but wouldnt attempt it on any metal and the size is just too small for practicality.
It’s normally called a tool not a bit. CNC software has backlash compensation and lead screw compensation. Look at your feeds and speeds. Usually the electronics are in an enclosed box. You need way covers to protect your lead screws. You need a motion control algorithm with acceleration and deceleration.
Thanks for the heads up. I would have purchased this since it look solid on the surface.
welcome to the rabbit hole that is called cnc-ing metal. I fell in it too. Build myself a momus a couple of years ago. You wont stop upgrading once you see what others can do on youtube :-).. I can recommend the momus though if you like diy. You can build it using simple tools only (I know, I did) and its relatively cheap (In CNC, cheap is always relative :-) ) . Your cnc looks nice too although I fear you will one day upgrade the spindle motor. If you ever decide to spring for one of those chinese high speed spindles, do pick one with an ER16 collet though. Much more choices when selecting cutters as the ER11 only fits a maximum of 7mm and the choice for 8mm and up is really big. Don't ask me how I know...
At 17:00 I believe you have reversed the (X, - ) and ( - , X). The horizontal line is X axis, and the vertical line is the Y-axis.
Hint: you could use a sound spectrum analizer like spectroid to read the sound frequencies, instead of generating waves and comparing by hearing.
or you can simply paint a vertical white line on the fan and setup an optical counter. Therte are plenty of commercial and arduino ones for this task
If your bits came from China I can tell you that's gonna be a problem. I couldn't cut crap with the carbide china bits, got a brand name carbide bit and solved most of my cutting problems.
Very informative and also a warning only buy (or not) when good informed .
wait do not throw in the towel.... you are doing great... I can make the adaptive gcode for you, and you can try it again. 3mm single flute looks good but better to enter the material from outside rather start inside, chips will go out faster.
Thank you for such an excellently constructed and presented video - not just a great review of the machine, but a great source of information for anyone thinking of doing amateur CNC machining. I've been eager to get into this, but can't afford it. I keep being tempted by the cheap machines, and other reviews have highlighted things like rigidity and more powerful spindle motors etc, but your video covers the WHY and the real effects on the work - It would be so easy to think "get the machine, do a few upgrades, and you get fantastic precision and performance" - clearly it's not the case.
There are certainly some things where quality of output critically depends on the quality of tools used, both mechanical components and software.
Thanks for a fantastic video. I'm subscribing so that I'll spot your review of that larger machine.
Thanks for posting your video on the Creality 3D print mill. It's officially my first step into the 3D print world.
there is a button to control the spindle, just check the setting and enable the panel :)
I agree with you on the lower left of the machine should be 0,0 the only reason I can think that they would make the center of the cut area 0,0 is their programer doesn't have any real world experience. Most drafters, and other trades people were trained to use 0,0 as the lower left. in the end it doesn't really mater, it still math but it would bug me too!
A better way to cut a slot if not to use the wrong bit, use a slot drill with two flutes designed for that job. Same goes for plunging cuts.
Stick the ruined bit into naoh, I’ve seen AvE do that and it seemed to work pretty well edit: just saw the end of the video
Yes, I second this. We have a large tap at work used for cleaning up munged threads in aluminum. Some of my coworkers weren't using any lubricant, and aluminum spalling welded to the tap.
I think I got the tip from AvE also, I mixed some crystal drain cleaner in water and soaked the tap overnight. In the morning, it looked like new after rinsing. No corrosion from the NaOH, all the aluminum eaten off.
Good video. I think most of your problems are due to low fee rate. A lot of heat is removed with the chips and with to low feed rate, then heat builds up since friction becomes more of a factor. Try doubling the feed rate and reducing the depth of cut or step over distance or both. I think you will have the same issue on your larger machine if you keep the same feeds and speeds. I have seen others successfully cutting aluminium with much less rigid machines than yours but using higher feed rates.
Fusion 360 has built in adaptive tool paths for CNC so you might want to check it out.
This is super useful, thanks for posting this!
No way! I was looking how to get into CNC just yesterday. Great video! Thanks!
All very interesting. Thank you for your time, much appreciated
Cutting fluid?
I also prefer a positive only coordinate system. With a positive/negative central location system, if you get distracted for a moment, and you forget to sign your command, well...
I would really only recommend conventional cutting with these machines. The rigidity is nonexistent. The motor itself isn’t meant for this. The new motor is much better. But the machine itself isn’t capable of taking usefully deep cuts for thicker metal. The new motor is far from the rails, giving it a greater ability to bounce up and down. So some of the chatter is due to that.
The fan is wider than the motor body so that the flow moves around the sides of the motor. When the fan is the same diameter, you get a very turbulent flow because all of the air is now hitting the flat rear of the motor. Assuming this is designed properly.
You know that aluminum sticks to cutters. You need bits coated for aluminum. Since you know you need coolant, I’m trying to understand why you’re not using it. I often use water diluted sawing coolant for much of my work. For this tiny machine, a few drops here and there is all you need. Why not use it? A slight mess is part of the game. Blowing these fine chips away is not the solution.
I see at the very end you discuss that motor overhang. There is no way to eliminate that. My machine weighs around a ton, and it’s considered to be a light machine. Chatter still happens, though with much heavier cuts. I’ve played around with a CNC Sherline, and with anything more that a 0.002” cut, it vibrates like crazy. I don’t know how anyone gets anything done with these little devices.
Not half bad for the investment really I thought. Just my $0.02, but my personal experience with feed and speed calculators that most people do not take into consideration is they are ideals. i.e. perfect set-up, clamping, etc., proper machining application such as climb vs. conventional, chip evacuation, DOC, coolant, and very importantly - rigidity. Machine age and condition can affect the outcome greatly. Introduce any of those variables that are less than ideal, and throw the calculators out the window. We have a lot of really smart new hires coming through my place of employment that try (and not terribly successfully) to run our equipment at the calculated feeds and speeds that work on paper er..app? but end up closer to 50-75% of where they started.
Design Prototype Test, I don't know if anyone committed on this before, but I want to let you know that you made a mistake when explaining the Cartesian coordinates. The top right is (+,+), the top left is (-,+), the bottom left is (-,-), and the bottom right is (+,-). This is not criticism, just clarification.
On the other hand, thank you for your very informative video.
The answer to the cantilever mount a second Gantry there's plenty enough room on the frame to do this. In this video a 3D printed the motor mount for the new motor with proper design he could have added the gantries remove the camp lever and strengthened the x, y axis of the motor relegating any swap in the cut to deficiencies in the motor the collet for the tools.
Thanks, you just saved me some money. As soon as I saw that chatter it was a no go for me.
Can put heat sinks on stepper motors to help a bit.
Put your meter on a lower range.
The thing your talking about with the tooth count is called feed per tooth.
Like you said, you need the lighter cuts at faster feeds. You won’t get the friction welding if you are feeding fast enough to move away from the old material before it gets hot enough to melt
Also, why not use fusion 360 CAM?
You worked so hard on this. Are you thinking the 4040 is the machine for low cost aluminum cutting?
I feel like noisy stepper drivers aren’t going to matter when your spindle is 10x louder. Plus 16x stepping has more torque than 32x
You should use alcohol when cutting aluminium, I use that blue stuff which is used for cleaning (I don't know the English term).
I had the same problems even with a far better CNC machine, but all those problems went away when I started using alcohol as coolant/lubricant .
Have you had a chance to review the Buildbotics CNC control box? Overkill for the machine shown here but would like to see your take on it.
Great video ...honest details ...thanks a lot
Overall I enjoyed the video, glad I watched to the end, but I do feel you were misleading at the beginning of the video, as well as in the title and description because you did give the impression that this $400 option was good and viable, but it the end you conclude otherwise. I think, at least, you should add an "Almost" in the video title. Looking forward to your video on the $1000 machine, and I'm hoping you can get it to cut metal well, because I, like so many other of your viewers, am looking forward to being able to do this sometime soon.
It also works over bluetooth-serial, so no risk of tripping on the usb cord. You can also control it with a raspberry pi and a webcam.
despite your PCB comment, can you post some test PCB milling results?
You can eat aluminum off of bits with Muriatic acid we do it for our carbide bits often
R.e. coordinate systems, since many parts are symmetrical about one or two axes centering the part at 0,0 will make it simpler to interpret coordinates as opposed to dealing with offsets for some of the features. I don't have a strong preference but that is one reason to center the home position.
I'm glad I watched to the end.😀
What math class did you attend that had the vertical axis as x?
Yep. That was a silly mistake.
Candle 🕯️ is a open source gbrl software that's very easy to use most cheaper Chinese cnc machines come with it
You can upload images or what ever and make it into a gcode to cut it is fairly basic to use
you made my day showing the moment of inertia.
I think that if you use a Makita router, you will get back a ton of performance, and also, (might be obvious) but thx to hoe to machine is build i think that you could install linear rails, without to much hassle
id like to see u do this video again with the new 3020 machines with the linear rails, some of them have it on all axis while most only have it for the x an z while the y are still on rods but are 12mm instead of 8mm so they are suppose to be alot more capable out of the box compared to the older 3018 machines.
Pro tip: those boards have swappable stepper drivers so switch them out with tmc 5160s (or whatever they're called), add a bigger power supply and beefier motors and you have a more powerful machine, with a spindle that can't cut for shit.
When I was machining I tried to use the plus plus quadrant.
That would be awesome if color comp got introduced to a cheap CNC mill but I've only ran the real deal cncs.
Cutter compensation...
Thanks for posting this, I found it very helpful, especially your run down on the software workflow. Just starting out and I hoped to find a machine and set of software tools where I could eventually run CNC, Laser Cutter, Waterjet, engraving and 3D print machines all using the same software set - In other words without having to learn a separate set of software for each type of shaping tool - maybe that is not possible now that I see how complex just the 3 axis CNC alone can be thanks to your explanation. I thought the benchtop form factor of that red machine has it's advantages if one is just trying to learn the software. Perhaps just to machine wax or delrin so a newbie could get going up the learning curve without a big investment.
You switched up your x and y axis a minute after you declared them though. Right?
Informative video. Knowing the limitations of the machine, wouldn't you drill a starter hole, zero that, go at a higher spindle rpm and if you couldn't nibble just reduce the feed speed?
There is a program called OctoPrint which can run on a RaspberryPi and is used to feed G-code to a 3D printer. Could this same type of setup be used to eliminate the need to keep the controller connected to your computer? If it's just sending G-code, I'll bet there is a solution out there.
If you get a chip trapped under the tool of any mill one of two things happen - any play in the machine will cause chatter or vibration or you will break the tool - even on largeish commercially made metal mills - you have to have realistic expectations - fit some steppers onto a commercial machine if you want to cut sizable chunks of metal - Stay safe.
Just curious, but how would this work on wood instead of metal? I'd like it to cut weird dovetail or box joints in wood up to 3/4". Seems like a reasonable price for that (and yes, I know a jig would be much cheaper, but not as geeky). Tx
when you cut aluminium use denatured alcohol cutting fluid ,or air and den alcoh mix..if its possible.
Just put the clogged bit in some (Sulfuric acid) battery acid. Will work great! Do a video on that! Helpful DIY tip I’m glad to have learned.
Lye will probably do better when removing Al from HSS cutters. I'm sure the acid will attack the cutter where the lye will not. I have personal experience with lye on Al. The reaction is vigorous.
I think your problem is more feeds and speed + depth of cuts than rigidity. I use a gantry to cut Al I do use cnc wizard to get the optimum speed for depth of cut. I also use either penetrating spray (occasionally) oil or a cutting water mister. Based on your bits you are going too slow and building up more heat by recutting chips.
Use a 2 flute and slow the feed rate on ali, and slow down your spindle speed. Using wd40 should help
on those shitty machines a single O flute would be best he would need to get rid of the 775 spindle. i can hold a 775 and stop it from turning
I think you were expecting too much. It would help if machine was bolted down, and it's mass increased, maybe fill it with concrete. A faster rotational speed, with not much stick out of the cutter (two or three flute is fine in ali), and take shallower cuts. You can't apply the same cutting parameters, as say Titan does. Many folk use wd40 as a cheap cutting fluid for ali, but milk is OK, too, even soapy water. Cutting perspex, plywood, and so forth, OK in your house, but for ali, better to have somewhere where mess can occur. Simple enough to make covers for the screws, etc. It looks a pretty solid construction, compared even to your bigger router, but needs a bit of tlc. btw, afaik, your explanation/diagram wrt x/y coords was wrong, (but I guess it was a long time since you were at school) and I noticed other stuff too, but you jammed in too much, imnsho. It's because of the fun of cutting metal/wood, that 3d printing is so popular...
I guess you are wrong in signing the quadrants around 17 minutes. Should be : +,+ , then +, - then -,- and then -,+ clockwise...