ANATOMY OF A DAC - VOL #4 MEITNER MA-3
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- Here we dive into my Meitner MA3. So far my pick for $10,500 DAC. yes, I am an Authorized seller for this piece. Anything higher, I recommend Playback Designs.
this is a very clean build, and they do well with the aluminum sheet metal build by reinforcing and damping the panels.
more on this piece after full break in. currently it's not as transparent as either Playback Designs DAC.
Enjoy !
The sum of the parts don’t add up relative to the price. I’m sure it’s decent but wrapping wires and tidy wires is reaching. SMT is used on $50 DACs too.
Ed did it again. I Owen the MA1 v2 and It sounds fantastic, you should have talked about the fact that everything is converted to very high sampling dsd rate and from there is is decoded. Mister Meitner is specially famous for his dsd work. I also have a Denafrips terminator II ,it sounds great but is less analog sounding then my MA1v2. The Denafrips produce a larger and more forward image.
That my friend is from Andreas Koch the digital Engineer. (Playback Designs) Ed is an Analog guru and handles the analog output section. So the accolades for DSD conversion belong to Andreas and Playback IMHO.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Tanks I didn’t know that mr Koch was involved but itmake sense since they both worked at Sony on the Sonoma design Kosh on the digital aspect of it, so the 2003-2007 he worked at eMM labs the mDac was his design, now does he supply meitner with clocks and dacs? was he involved in the new iterations of DAC fOR Meitner NEW machines?
@@OCDHIFiGuy how does he score against ASD guy?
There are tons of DACS for half the money that do an outstanding job of isolating noise from power supplies. Of the Chinese manufactures, both Denafrips and Holo May do an outstanding job and are very highly regarded as outstanding DAC's within the audio reproduction community. So what justifies these DACS over them per double the money? Obviously it isn't the isolation of noise from their power supplies.
Gary do you support Human rights Violators ? Have you seen the people jumping from balconies in Shanghai recently ? Or is it about the lowest price for your HiFi luxury here in America and screw the Chinese people ?
I found holo may to be not bad. But it needed a 26 thousand dollar powercable before it sounded good.
So that's why I just go straight to the euro designs. I find I only need a 5-10 thousand dollar power cable.
Win win
@@OCDHIFiGuy That is a very hypocritical comment. The answer is no. I don't support Human rights Violators. Buying products from China is day to day life in the USA. Most of the products are American Corporations manufacturing in China ship to the USA for us. So I guess we collectively as a Nation especially our Corporations support Human Right Violator's right? Should I presume you don't own a cellular phone, or any product manufactured in China? I mean owning any product that was manufactured in China sold in the USA is supporting Human Rights Violators? How about your home your vehicle you drive are any of the items you own void of any Chinese content?
"China is the leading maritime importer for the United States by an impressive margin, accounting for 42% of all goods shipped to the U.S.
China not only sends far more products in general to the U.S. than any other country, it also leads every category of imported goods, from textiles to plastics to metals and beyond. China increases the volume of goods it sends to the U.S. nearly every year by hundreds of thousands of units."
@@Music_time82 That was funny!
He hates denafrips! His not a dealer anymore lol.. he only makes good comments if he can makes money out of them.
Why a switching power supply instead of linear?
Better profit margin.
Totally true
Much faster easier build...
Isn't it crazy how we spend so muchoney on big cables and big amps and tubes and all this good stuff yet our source of music comes from those tiny ribbon wires at the source! Amazing!
The streamer is a daughter board, connected to the MB. This makes perfect sense. If I am spending $10,000 on a DAC, I would expect the inside to look tidy, with good cable management. I am seeing what I am expecting to see here. Nothing too extravagant for $10,000. Not saying this is just a simple DAC by all means. They made the most of the technology, this is what is evident to me. They made this DAC as simplistic as possible without skimping on quality parts, and quality build. In about 10yrs from now a DAC of this quality will be had for about $1000. Of course this is only my prediction. The sound quality that can be had today is just mind boggling. With some DACs costing $100,000 or more. How much more they can improve will be hitting a brick wall in about 10yrs? Again, only my prediction. Lifelike is lifelike, how can you hear more perfectly than what your ears perceive, and the sounds that occur naturally. There is a limit to how we hear, and what we hear. When you can be blind folded, and you can't distinguish a natural occurring sound from a recorded sound.....The you have reached the limit of perfecting duplication of sound.
Theres only ONE DAC that does what you describe. Playback Designs.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I know you own tha mpd 8 have you heard the mpd 6 ore any other moddels from them can you give a hint to what is good?
@@OCDHIFiGuy And i wonder i you have ever listend to the Audio Note UK fith element/force dac and power supply set up?
Much higher level of design? Maybe just a little, but not worth $10K. There is no way that this simple DAC is worth this much. Also, what do you mean by 'full break in' in your description??? That does not make sense.
What people miss about a product's unit price is the non-reoccurring costs involved to produce a product. There is definitely a per unit cost based on just parts and labor to build a single unit. But there is also the development cost for the engineering (electrical, mechanical, packaging), software development, testing, proto-typing, production set up, etc. All of this is the non-reoccurring cost. The non-reoccurring cost (investment) is divided by the projected number of sales or build run for the per unit cost. The per unit non-reoccurring cost, build cost, per unit overhead, and per unit profit is what makes up the actual price of a unit. Therefore, if you build/sell only a small number of units, the non-build cost can be a large or significant portion of the unit price. The cost of an unit is not just the cost of parts and labor to build it.
Pretty sure people aren't that stupid, but you never know. You forgot about packaging design, custom packaging, building overhead including electrical, internet, phone and utilities, payroll and a big part is marketing cost and advertising. How about trade show costs, lodging, meals, travel expenses shipping to and from the show, and dreage. There are also ip costs, patents, filing, etc.
@@OCDHIFiGuy You're correct, I am preaching to the choir. I do realize that for everyone in this forum I am stating the obvious. Great videos. I appreciate your candor. I enjoy the ANATOMY OF A DAC series. I probably put my rant in the wrong forum. It just pisses me off how so-called experts on other forums and other UA-cam channels state that high end audio products are overpriced (some are) based solely on the build cost.
10k for a half empty box of 90s tech? 😆
What do you mean in your description by 'full break in'??
Thanks for showing all those details! Given that you highly regard the Playback Design DACs, how does this Meitner MA-3 compare to the Playback Designs Merlot from their Sonoma range? Did you compare them sonically? Thanks!
Weird I didn't see any isolation following the USB ports, galvanic or optical. I probably just missed it. I'd never personally use USB directly into a DAC anyway. This is a beautiful design here though. I think those ribbon cables are just flat LVDS and likely carrying I2S between boards (the back ones). I'll have to look more into this company. Nice video!!!
Thx man !
Is this particular switching power supply as good as a linear one? And are you gonna carry EMM Labs and Meitner gear now?
Highly doubtful Mike, and I can carry it all but I wont carry the high level as I like PBD better, this is to fill my $10K DAC hole in my offerings only. And Im still waiting on break in to fully judge it , but for $10K its my best offering so far.
Dig what yer doing with this DAC series, Mikey. Looking forward to the next!
Hold your horses the biggie is coming...
Certainly, they could make it smaller. A lot of folks are headphone people and having a DAC that can sit on a desktop is worth it.
Are you really sure about that power supply?
It's good for a SMPS
Where's the rest of it?
what parts are missing ? Name them..
@@OCDHIFiGuy I'm only kidding Mikey.
Looks pretty empty inside… air is precious nowadays 😎
OK. I get it. Shiii. You should have seen the 24K Vermeer two.. like nothing inside but some of the best sound I've heard.
I would use a chopstick or a bamboo skewer 2 point out different electrical components.
I like Bamboo Skewer, Ive got some ... Next vid !
Also it works good to put pressure on the board while troubleshooting to find broken solder connections.
Mike, thanks for opening up the MA3 and for your review 👍
I have auditioned the Meitner MA3 over a year ago (in an A/B vs the Lampizator Baltic 3) and I really liked the way it sounded, very natural yet clean and precise.
It seems that Ed may have cut some corners on some components on the MA3, but this reminds us that Meitner is his « lower priced » line, EMM Labs being his brand for state of the art components/build.
Regarding pricing I would like to highlight that Chinese premium gear is not that cheap anymore, the Denafrips T+ is now $6.5K for DAC only or another way to say that is that the $10k MA3 which also includes a streamer is maybe not that overpriced…
Keep the great videos coming in 🙏👌
Yes, Good point. the Chinese are trying to compete to SHOW they can do it just like every other Technology they STEAL . If I hate anything its that Government over there and the way they mistreat humans and make them suffer in their zeal to control the world. So I think owning gear from there is an embarrassment to the owner here. and its WAY overpriced...
I like your videos, Mikey, but I have to be honest I am not impressed with the emptiness and “minimal” components in the chassis for the asking price of usd 10,000. There is no need to compare with Chinese DACs but comparing to Italian DAC Aqua La Scala for less money, I will buy the Aqua although I know both sounds awesome for the money
Im simply showing this DAC. Not telling anyone its a bargain at all. Aqua depends on what tubes are in it . Can be good can be bad... This ine is $10K with Streamer inside and volume control.
I love Canadian made audio but that piece is empty for 10K
Agreed.
Wind is very expensive in Canada, you know... 0.5K of electronics, 9.5K of wind.
Yes in it's simplicity a basic streemer is just a network card with a processor, power supply, and GUI/software to access streaming services. However, bring it to the next level with not only having inhouse network network tech, dedicated clock to mitigate jitter, a low power CPU, dedicated memory buffer, and its own power supplies, prpoietary tech, and you'll notice a huge difference. At first I thought the same. I thought my BlueSound node with either coax or SPIDIF going to my DAC was good enough, until I was introduced to Aurender by my dealer. We had a shoot out with Lumin, Aurender, and BlueSound on the same system I have at home and immediately I heard a huge improvement. The N200 has enough magic for my tastes and budget and it also has SSD drives for networking my music if I choose to. Idk if you had a chance to check them out, but Aurender was also at Axpona doing demos between their models and others. Aurender isn't for everyone, matching to ones systems capabilities and listeners taste is key so demoing Lumin, Cambridge, and etc is important, but they do notch up . For the toys you play with have Aurender send you a demo unit or 2 with no DAC and hear for yourself. ✌️
I use a Playback Designs Streamer and a Homebuilt server using JCat USB out. Ive tried a $20K streamer and the difference was not worth it . It was very small... Streamers and computer tech changes like the wind, so Im in no rush. My DAC is of such high caliber, it renders the streamer a much less important part of the whole
@@OCDHIFiGuy idk man, the Aurender N200 I got was under 6k. When I listen to Dio-Holy Diver, Manowar- Master of the Wind, or Judas Priest- Necromancer, I can hear the chaffing of the leather pants rubbing on stage. TMI. Even on piano I can hear the hammers hit the strings and the creeks of the bench. Your PBD probably relocks the garbage coming in and turns it into fine wine for the Gods to enjoy as they plot their next conquest. 🧔😁 🍷 🤘🎸⚡
Great series, are you going open and explain an MPD8?
on deck bro... Just filmed it this AM.
No doubt there are some good quality parts in that dac/streamer. What surprises me is all the empty space and the fact the that streamer section is so tiny. Take a look at some of the competitor products like the Aqua La Scala. It is packed with superb quality parts and engineering prowess and it comes from Italy. How could the streamer section in the Meitner be considered hi end when other manufacturers utilize whole boxes dedicated to streaming, like a Auralic/lumin? This isn’t a knock to Meitner who is incredibly well respected company that excels in stand alone dacs.
One can build a simple thing very extravagantly and charge through the nose for it. ;-)
Hi Larry, streaming does not take much, but companies love to overhype and overbuild !
Not sure I fully agree but it seems prudent in putting 70% into the dac and 30% into the streamer. The MA3 is more like 90% dac and the parts certainly don’t look exotic in the dac section, good yes. Hopefully the MA3 can be used as a dac only with an outboard streamer up to the level of the dac.
I have a great DAC that is going to reach my hands in the next week or two. I'm going to open it up and see what the internals are. Its a french DAC that completes with TotalDAC and Metronome. I bought the Audiomat 4 Maestro Reference. Can't wait to break it in :)
To be quite honest, inside is good just to see build philosophy, but wont tell the whole story. ;-)
@@OCDHIFiGuy Agreed. What you can visually see just tells you if they used quality parts but how its implemented is more important in terms of engineering the signal from input to output. But I did my due diligence and saw that the caps inside the Audiomat are high quality big quality poly only available in Europe. At 9900 Euros I would expect no less than top shelf parts (chassis, caps, high quality PCB etc). There's some photos online you can see they put some thought into it.
Mikey, I hope you have a Golden Parachute/Big Payday upon the Completion of your New Quest! I get the feeling Corporate Spies would love to know the Secrets of your Mad Scientist Mind so they Racketeer/Profit from your Hard Work! CYA every way possible before your Rollout! Good Luck Brother! ✌
Bro, the SECOND I can bail HiFi, Im OUT... For retirement .... This is my lifes calling.
Mike why do you bash chinese stuff? Bashing products based on its country of origin is so stupid! China has incredible engineers same as Canada, USA or any other western country. You are a super smart guy Mike, no need for stupid xenophobia c'mon!
It’s the government and the slave labor that he doesn’t like. He has nothing against the Chinese.
Net News, I LOVE my Chinese brothers and sisters. I practice Chinese style meditation from a Chinese man and the history is rich and beautiful, but the Government that you support when you buy anything from China right now tops the charts for Human Rights violations. Please dont be so unaware of the atrocities there. People are currently so fucked with that they commit suicide daily by jumping off thier balconies because the Chinese govt locks them up in their buildings due to totalitarian government that controls them through fear of death. They cant even SPEAK thier mind for fear of DEATH... its AMAZING to me the people that are unaware of this and just go on through thier spoiled American life ordering pizza, drinking beer and whacking off to porn and buying Chinese goods while the people there are suffering greatly... I personally draw the line with Chinese goods. I dont buy them if I have a choice. This means shoes, jeans, food, vitamins, books, and most of all HiFi... Sheesh.... Cmon man, lets think of our brothers in other countries.. they are just like us and just want to enjoy the things we Americans get to, like pizza and spanking the monkey. and holy crap speaking ones mind...
Thanks Peter.
@@OCDHIFiGuy thanks Mike, It makes sense I thought it was xenophobia but I was wrong sorry ❤️
@@OCDHIFiGuy I do hope you can say the same Human Rights stuff on what has happened to the invasions in Syria, Palestine, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraqi..
I am not really impressed for 10k.
The casing is pretty flimsy. The power is of the cheaper switching type. The boards are also of the cheaper kind. Many flat cables are also not ideal.
You talk about the Chinese 'cheap' stuff, but I like the Holo audio more if you talk about material quality.
I heard theres a new one from China that kills Holo or Denafrips and it costs less., if your into supporting communists. Its not the Chinese stuff, its the Government my friend. Human rights violations are off the charts over there. I happen to love my fellow Human Beings, Yep, no doubt this is easily produced, but the proof is in the sound. Im still breaking it in.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Yes, I agree the politics are a problem in China.
I like to separate politics from the actual hardware in audio.
If you simply compare the thick case, thick circuit boards and beefy power supply, this unit is no match for cheaper units from China. Let alone the expensive comports like ladder resisters capacitors and silver wire used.
To me, this is just an objective observation, because this is the central story of your video.
Sadly I have not listened to any of them, maybe I would prefer the sound of this unit..
Isn't the retail on this dac $9500?
Just went up to $10,500 a month ago.
I look at this and i look at T+A DAC 200 and just dont see why MA-3 cost what it costs.
I understand...
Kinda STINGS paying for 1/2 empty box though, you think? 😭
Well it really matters how the sound is over everything.. But yes, some of these have lots of real estate... wait for next video.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Can’t help but watch..if your channel was a hifi magazine,it’d make some of these manufacturers CRY 👍
It's nearly a Faraday cage.... Look it up sir
I had no idea the Jameco switchmode power supply invented in the 1970s was the cutting edge of power supply design. A faraday cage.... LMAO audiophools are the best entertainment on youtube. OH I forgot about the giant soaker-up convert-to-heat "ground plane" LMAO.
Dude, if youre a Deadhead, chill yourself Holmes. I met Jerry twice, Annabelle still has an Amulet I gave him and Im very much about a loving compassionate Tribe.. No need to be a Hippy Dick.. Or is it to be cool ? This is like the HOG Farm bro... Im Wavy.. I think drugged out Wook idiots are the best entertainment on YT.
Were did my post disappeared?
What did it say ? Perhaps its held for my review if you posted a link then it automatically gets held until I approve it .
if only you could send it to Amir to measure it
looks like a cheep printer
If I opened this up and saw that Mickey Mouse nothing of a Dac, I would demand my money back. 10 grand? Get real. Open up a Pontus 2 Dac and compare, please.
FUCK CHINA BRO.... Are you kidding me ? You support Human Rights violations ?? Im not even questioning the value of this DAC, lets say its a total rip off I still would NEVER support Totalitarian Rule.. Hillbilly ? are you American or what ??
Tell us how you really feel.
Go through your house and burn everything made in China. Start with you’re phone.
That looks like a standard OEM medical grade SMPS in there. Not all that special. Cant speak for the rest of the boards cos they are custom non OEM.
😴
How does the inside of this compare to a MSB discrete dac? With the discrete it’s made in USA is made out of a billet of aluminium so no cheap case, has dual linear power supplies in they’re own shielded aluminium block cases and separate discrete ladder modules thermally stabilised and shielded in modules etc etc and it’s around the same 10k price. Thanks for your wonderful channel. I watch it without fail. You rock Mickey!
Ive never seen inside the Discreet DAC and maybe its better for $10K... do you have one to send me ? Id love to try ..
Mikey, give it away now.
Hey Now !
Mikey you go on about human rights in China, there not much different in the west at the moment !!!