Al Ewing had some fun with the concept of inversion in the AXIS tie-ins he wrote for Loki: Agent of Asgard and Mighty Avengers. IIRC, he was the one who introduced the idea that it wasn't just a simple good/evil morality swap, but the characters who got inverted actually had their core values and personality traits reversed - for instance, Inverted Loki was _literally physically incapable_ of telling a lie, and that fact ultimately led to them accidentally confessing the truth about what they did to Kid Loki at the worst possible moment.
If I had a nickel for every superhero story where the hero turned evil but had somehow made a backup of themselves to fight the evil versions of themselves, I would actually have a lot of nickels.
@@akiraeatsguitarpicks491I mean, that seems more like a douche than a Villain. Like Imagine Dr. Doom curing Ben just so he can un cure him. Though I could honestly see him doing that just to feel like he One Up'd Reed... but also Doom is more of an Anti Villain. My point is Evil Tony is really just a cock head
Rents him his sight back. That was the gimmick, the extremis cures were all streaming/subscription based. Forget to pay, can’t spend 1000 a month for your sight or your arm, it goes away.
The saddest part of this, to me, was that Hickman's New Avengers plotline made Tony trying to make a suit from a symbiote something he could absolutely have decided to do in the face of annihilation, and the symbiote (however much he toyed with it before using it) could have slowly corrupted his impulses or emphasized the utterly pragmatic parts of his personality and given us the "Superior" tinge to his character. Instead, it had to happen through...Axis.
This is a great example of a coolish story that abruptly ends without a satisfying conclusion. It reminds me of when I read new avengers in collected form. Before you know it, civil war happens and it’s kinda ruined haha.
i mean it abruptly ends because of the hickman saga. funny enough when you are just reading hickman's avengers run, the superior iron man status quo in time runs out comes out of nowhere. all you know is that there was a time skip and tony is now evil.
56:10 I love Ethans version of Extremis-- just warping everyone's perception of reality. That way, Tony's basically made a way for him to gaslight everyone in San Francisco, which is a hilarious concept
I’d legit read an Iron Man book where a villain used Extremis in the way Ethan described it. The idea of an artificial virus that can rewrite your brain chemistry and your perception of the world around you like that is actually really creative and kind of terrifying. Like the simulation from the Matrix, but actively sentient and contagious.
This hits a different kind of Nostalgia! When this book came out this was when Sal was motivating me to quit my job and become a FULL TIME artist! Thank you for this episode!
This story started off so cool when it started. I had no idea Tom Taylor was the one who did it after all of these years. Dude is becoming one of my favorites.
Superior iron man was such a good story that I am sad that it never got a complete ending to its story because you can tell superior iron man was supposed to have a actual ending, and finish evil iron man with pepper and Rodey war machine was supposed to stop him which would’ve been amazing in my opinion.
Ah yes. The only thing that people remember from AXIS and the character that had MCU Fans go crazy with fan theories about him appearing in Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness and fan casting him with Tom Cruise for some reason.
Which was Superior Carnage again was that the Axis story where he was trying to be a hero or his return after Axis when he decided Sam Alexander Nova was his nemesis because they became friends during the inversion
@@creed8712 yes and no. Rob of Comix Explained's Secret Wars video for example jumped up thousands of views once the film was only announced and it's an old one. It'll get even more attention in a couple years once the trailers flow. Since Thunderbolts isn't as crucial I don't think when that video gets posted will really matter
Sal talking about Tony's magical ability to mobilize lawyers and money to instantaneously make insane purchases reminds me of the scene in Age of Ultron where he buys the skyscraper that hes going to hulkbust the Hulk through in about 5 seconds
My favorite part about Superior Iron Man is when Bendis starts writing Tony, he's just a hero. A couple issues into his run while Bendis was doing a letters page on it he was asked directly about what happened to flip Tony back, his response was basically him going 'Yea I'm Bendis I don't worry about other writers continuity' Meanwhile Sabertooth was probably the best realized Axis potential of the three, especially since that was during Logan being dead.
It was during Axis that I first found ComicPop, though it was still TVLH at the time, as I was curious what it was all about. Helped get through a lot of long commutes to campus and home back then, and actually helped steer my degree path a bit as Sal was kind enough to provide an interview for a major project some years back. You guys have always been entertaining, but have only gotten better and better. Thanks for always delivering top-notch content over the years, team, and I am excited to see what's in store. Axis sucks, but I'm glad it lead me to the channel all those years ago.
Finally, the sequel to Axis that NOBODY wanted! Poor Matt Murdock. I'm surprised Tony didn't just give Echo her hearing back, or make Ben Grimm human again.
The question of how exactly the Extremis virus works is one that I find really, really interesting. And it's created something of a pet peeve for me when other stories try to incorporate Extremis into their plots. In the original "Extremis" storyline, using the virus is actually ridiculously risky in even the successful cases. It turns out that reprogramming your biology is wildly dangerous and traumatic. Who woulda thought? And we'd later find out that only a certain percentage of people are even biologically compatible. Anyone else just dies. So when later stories start tossing around Extremis abilities like candy, it feels like it really trivializes earlier plotlines. "Oh, I'm sure they improved on Extremis off-panel" feels like a pretty unsatisfying handwavy explanation too.
@@Spikex1with the fact that there are multiple writers writing for these characters, the earlier plotlines will be trivialized. either the writers don't care about those plotlines, and ignore it, or hate it so much to retcon it to be something else. for example the fact that superman came back from the dead, trivializes the fact that superman died; a lot of characters death and returns trivializes the idea of death in comics. the fact that spider-gwen can just crossover to the 616 universe with ease, and can live there, trivializes the idea of mutliverse traveling. the fact that batman can survive a fall from the moon to the earth, with only his regular bat-suit, trivializes the character; bruce is suppose to be a human being, not a god. so making him do this feat, trivializes his character. even the MCU does this; the fact that hulk is just a joke now, trivializes the earlier plotlines of the hulk.
@@johnthai6188 "either the writers don't care about those plotlines, and ignore it, or hate it so much to retcon it to be something else." Those aren't the only options, though. There does exist the possibility of superhero stories simply... _existing_ within the same world as one another without negatively impacting each other. And for the most part, THAT is what most ongoing mainstream superhero books do. For every example you cited, there are hundreds or thousands of other stories that don't tread on the toes of earlier ones. They coexist just fine. Or you even get a writer who _does_ care and builds on the earlier foundations in a way that's true to what prior stories set up. For example, Tom Taylor wasn't the only writer to play around with Extremis after its initial story. The "Director of SHIELD" era of Iron Man comics use Extremis very well without feeling inaccurate to what Warren Ellis established earlier.
It’s almost 3am here in London and Sal saying “this isn’t a comic book roundup, you can’t use decimal points and pass it off as depth” @06:30 made me laugh so hard I’m worried I’ve woken up my roommate
So many of these videos have taught me that Joe Quesada has very specific hang-ups and opinions that he absolutely has to go out of his way to force on the entire company.
Been waiting for a back issues on this, this run is so fun for me. Having said that, I know we get a lot of Batman on the channel, and I know how Sal feels about King’s Batman run, but I would love to see you guys cover City of Bane.
Glad to know I didn't miss an actual comic of Superior Iron Man trying to solo Thanos's Cabal. And instead of killing him, they just kept him locked up in a cage until someone (Shuri? Natasha?) rescues him. And then Tony immediately dips.
tony doesn't really dips. the illuminati, steve's avengers team and superior iron man are working together to fight off an alien invasion coming from space.
Funny ass idea: The magic, post incursion Tony is actually just BOTH Tony's averaged together because they were just sort of taking the net deep to save as many as possible.
ok if you're gonna make a bubble to keep people flipped, I feel like priority 1 for that is carnage. Although I think he was somewhere else at that point in the story?
5:35 i just love how sal raps up the axis event and explains how Superior Iron Man/Axis Tony Stark is just a straight up Villain with Good Publicity also love how Inverse Carnage sacrifice himself then went straight back to being Classic Kledus Kassidy & Carnage Symbiote
the whole stark giving matt his sight back almost gave me deja vu until I realized it was just reminding me of th e Clone Conspiracy when ben reilly was giving people what they want...as long as they take those pill *shakes bottle* like extremis *shakes ...phone*
The way Ben explained this at the beginning with his scale and said Iron Man being flipped is just him being a full-time capitalist robber-baron rather than a "I wanna rule/destroy the world"-esque villain is why I love this story. What if Iron Man was a successful but awful business mogul? A product of nepotism and an absolute piece of capitalist trash? Okay now what if that was pointed towards regular people deliberately rather than collaterally? Honestly good work on Ben.
I'd love if Marvel did something similar to "DC Earth 2" where The Avengers, would be alternate heroic versions of villains (Justin Hammer, Abomination, Norman Osborne, Sabretooth, Taskmaster, Klaue etc) and then you have your villains as The evil versions of Avenegers
Ethan over everything! He has so many revelant questions!!!!! He's immune to your shitty writing because of critical thinking skills!!!!! He must feel like how Lex Luther feels. He's violently aware that you're all on some remedial bullshit, and he's not afraid to explain it to you! Never give up, never stop! This is God's work!
The one thing I never got is that they never made Superior Villians or more Heroes. That's basically what Supreme Strange is, or what Infamous Doom could've been.
I've always wanted a superior Thanos story who seeks help from Jean to break his connection to death, so they go on a girl's trip like in the Marvels cuz their minds get entangled, he respects her more for tolerating the Phoenix, she respects him for his noble intent. Obviously Scott goes and learns how to be less jealous, Quintin invites himself and Dani gets asked by Logan and Emma to keep em updated. The chaotic good aspect could get played up having witnesses to sparing some unfriendly psychic cultures, Thanos having access to the Phoenix and destroying a planet filled with metaphorical baby Hitlers, Jean needing to use it to destroy a wild psychic animal. Thanos then accepts that there is no way to escape death and their minds unlink but he has a portion of the phoenix still. The villains are all so interesting imo a modern twist on the Superior series would be $$$ printers
This was the iron man book when I first got into comics. I actually really enjoyed it at the time, and only later learned it was Tom Taylor, who's work I often enjoy
Am I the only one that thinks Axis gets too much hate? I know that hero and villain switch sides stories are a dime a dozen but I was at the perfect age to like that story and i did. Cool ideas came out of it . Seeing Carnage and Sabertooth try to be good guys while nobody trusts them was pretty awesome. Superior Iron was actually great and the suit is a modern classic. It's alright.
The Avengers should of known he was evil because he was in a white suit, if your charismatic, and wearing an all white suit… you’re automatically a bad guy lol
well they had other problems to deal with, before the time runs out story. you know like fighting against the builders, thanos and his black order, an evil version of the avengers from the multiverse, AIM, the incursions, and the beyonders trying to destroy the marvel multiverse. these were just the outside forces that they had to deal with; not even accounting for the infighting and subterfuge from the illuminati. this just goes to show, the avengers had a lot of stuff on their plate. also the axis event came after the start of hickman's avengers run. until you get to time runs out, tony stark in the beginning of hickman's avengers run wasn't flipped yet: to becoming superior iron man. there is a time skip that happens in between the 4th collected vol of hickman's avengers and the time runs out story; in that time skip, tony already became superior iron man. even then, part of the time runs out story was captain america being the head of shield and going on a man hunt for the illuminati; within the illuminati group at that time tony stark was not on the team.
The virtual world is a tired idea, but y'all make such a good pitch. As well, I think it'd tie into Stark's expertise better than extremis. Lol then again, Stark running a virtual world already exists
Weird as it is, I understand Hickman using the incursion to fix Tony. Tony did so many shitty things in this book that I can see it being easier to say “fuck it” and erase it than stretching suspension of disbelief that people would forgive him.
i mean hickman already set-up the idea that tony will be an antagonist before the superior iron man status quo. the 3rd issue of hickman's avengers run sets up the idea captain america and iron man will fight. Steve was described as someone for life and Tony was described for death. the superior iron man status quo for tony, just sped up the development.
A marvel Tom Taylor book I’ll recommend to death is the All New Wolverine run. I love the characters and a majority of the arcs were written with so much attention to detail and having a larger universe around it.
If they ever bring him back they should team him up with Stevil lol When he came back after Civil war 2 Slott established Tony cloned himself and Rhodey and the original versions are dead. So maybe he had done it before.
I think I have a good answer. On Hikmans new avengers, it was sugested that on the months between the end of that series and the beggining of time runs out, everything that was being published by marvel at the time and that hikman didnt had nothing to do with, took place. This means axis and superior iron man happened on this period of time. At the beggining of time runs out, Tony was simmingly capture by the cabal, if am not mistaken, and then the world ends. At the end of secret wars we repit a scene from the beggining of new avengers, but ends different, to be specific, children that died originally are still alive. My interpretation that the series avengers/new avengers/ time runs out, leading up to secret wars never happened and because of that, the events of axis and superior iroman happened slightly different. In my head canon I choose to believe that because there were no heroes dealing with the incursions on this version of reality, the Tony condition was resolved.
Sal was thinking of Daredevil by Mark Waid when DD was kidnapped by Doctor Doom and he got injected by nano bots that somehow turned his powers off and his sight came back to compensate
Imagine you're seeing the Inversion is coming and you're expecting you're going to be a cooler, inverted version of yourself. And then, it happens... and nothing changes. "Sh*t!!! I'M A TWEENER?!!!" 🤣🤣🤣
You know what would be funny? If the next time they use an AI it behaves like the AIs we have in the real world. Like maybe Spiderman creates an AI that acts like ChatGPT, so when it doesn't know stuff, it just starts making things up. "What is the Beyonder? The Beyonder is a side character in Fox's hit show Futurama voiced by John Dimaggio."
This episode reminded me that I don't think you guys have done Iron Man: Extremis by Warren Ellis. It's a pretty cool book, and it'd be fun to hear what Ethan thinks of Extremis, lol
Buy the first volume of Superior Iron Man! amzn.to/3Haa6tl
Ben and Ethan putting more time and brain power into the inversion than anyone at Marvel put together
Al Ewing had some fun with the concept of inversion in the AXIS tie-ins he wrote for Loki: Agent of Asgard and Mighty Avengers. IIRC, he was the one who introduced the idea that it wasn't just a simple good/evil morality swap, but the characters who got inverted actually had their core values and personality traits reversed - for instance, Inverted Loki was _literally physically incapable_ of telling a lie, and that fact ultimately led to them accidentally confessing the truth about what they did to Kid Loki at the worst possible moment.
It proves they don't have meetings planning events and tie in I've seen UA-camrs collaborate better then comic book writers
It's funny that Franklin Richards just restores Tony Stark to how he remembers him TWICE.
If I had a nickel for every superhero story where the hero turned evil but had somehow made a backup of themselves to fight the evil versions of themselves, I would actually have a lot of nickels.
The only villain so evil, he gave Daredevil his sight back! The scoundrel!
You've taken away my gimmick! Now I'm just a lawyer, who can see, and is in really good shape.....wait a minute.....🤔
He also took it back. So yeah unironically a villain
@@akiraeatsguitarpicks491I mean, that seems more like a douche than a Villain.
Like Imagine Dr. Doom curing Ben just so he can un cure him.
Though I could honestly see him doing that just to feel like he One Up'd Reed... but also Doom is more of an Anti Villain.
My point is Evil Tony is really just a cock head
@@JohnClark-tt2blfrom somewhat interesting to absolutely mediocre despite being fantastic lmao
Rents him his sight back. That was the gimmick, the extremis cures were all streaming/subscription based. Forget to pay, can’t spend 1000 a month for your sight or your arm, it goes away.
“She’s rich. She doesn’t need agency!”
I know it’s early, but this might be quote of the year for me.
Sal trying to explain the end of Secret Wars to Ben and Ethan was like watching a master cat wrangler
If you think about it, Teen Abomination being Happy's son means he's the second Hogan to fight a Murdoch
The saddest part of this, to me, was that Hickman's New Avengers plotline made Tony trying to make a suit from a symbiote something he could absolutely have decided to do in the face of annihilation, and the symbiote (however much he toyed with it before using it) could have slowly corrupted his impulses or emphasized the utterly pragmatic parts of his personality and given us the "Superior" tinge to his character. Instead, it had to happen through...Axis.
This is a great example of a coolish story that abruptly ends without a satisfying conclusion. It reminds me of when I read new avengers in collected form. Before you know it, civil war happens and it’s kinda ruined haha.
Just like Infamous Iron Man.
i mean it abruptly ends because of the hickman saga. funny enough when you are just reading hickman's avengers run, the superior iron man status quo in time runs out comes out of nowhere. all you know is that there was a time skip and tony is now evil.
56:10 I love Ethans version of Extremis-- just warping everyone's perception of reality. That way, Tony's basically made a way for him to gaslight everyone in San Francisco, which is a hilarious concept
To be fair, Extremis in it's first appearance does modify body, only way more harder than Superior Iron-Man version.
I’d legit read an Iron Man book where a villain used Extremis in the way Ethan described it. The idea of an artificial virus that can rewrite your brain chemistry and your perception of the world around you like that is actually really creative and kind of terrifying. Like the simulation from the Matrix, but actively sentient and contagious.
Im kind of a new comer. Have they done the extremis story?
Best goddamn Ironman in years “am done playing human” line is fucking amazing
This and currently in Fall of X when he (spoiler)
Literally becomes AI in his suit, are his beet moments imo
This hits a different kind of Nostalgia! When this book came out this was when Sal was motivating me to quit my job and become a FULL TIME artist! Thank you for this episode!
Excellent episode, now waiting for the 3-hour special with the Hickman build-up to Secret Wars
This story started off so cool when it started. I had no idea Tom Taylor was the one who did it after all of these years. Dude is becoming one of my favorites.
I also didn't know that. And it made perfect sense. Dude's been writing hits I didn't even know to give him credit for.
Taylor’s writing is very hit or miss for me, but when he _does_ hit, it’s always peak
M😅😅..m
Superior iron man was such a good story that I am sad that it never got a complete ending to its story because you can tell superior iron man was supposed to have a actual ending, and finish evil iron man with pepper and Rodey war machine was supposed to stop him which would’ve been amazing in my opinion.
Ah yes. The only thing that people remember from AXIS and the character that had MCU Fans go crazy with fan theories about him appearing in Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness and fan casting him with Tom Cruise for some reason.
heroic carnage was the other thing
Tom Cruise was attached to an early version of an Iron Man movie in the early 2000s. So there was a tenuous kind of logic.
Cruise as Superior Iron Man still would go so hard
They actually did two other books with the “Superior” title. Superior foes of Spider-Man and Superior Carnage.
Which was Superior Carnage again was that the Axis story where he was trying to be a hero or his return after Axis when he decided Sam Alexander Nova was his nemesis because they became friends during the inversion
Original Thunderbolts review would be great, considering the ideas thrown around in this episode.
Would compliment the inevitable film as well
@@nailinthefashionit’ll have to release closer to it…assuming it ever comes out
@@creed8712 yes and no. Rob of Comix Explained's Secret Wars video for example jumped up thousands of views once the film was only announced and it's an old one. It'll get even more attention in a couple years once the trailers flow.
Since Thunderbolts isn't as crucial I don't think when that video gets posted will really matter
Theyre gonna do it when the movie comes out for sure
That ending was perfect. Ben is a comedic genius I swear.
This was the best thing to come out of Axis. I like the idea of a pre-Iron Man mentality in a post-Iron Man position.
Sal talking about Tony's magical ability to mobilize lawyers and money to instantaneously make insane purchases reminds me of the scene in Age of Ultron where he buys the skyscraper that hes going to hulkbust the Hulk through in about 5 seconds
ethans escalating offense against teen abomination is amazing 😂 37:15
So he got inverted from Lawful Neutral to Chaotic Neutral
My favorite part about Superior Iron Man is when Bendis starts writing Tony, he's just a hero. A couple issues into his run while Bendis was doing a letters page on it he was asked directly about what happened to flip Tony back, his response was basically him going 'Yea I'm Bendis I don't worry about other writers continuity'
Meanwhile Sabertooth was probably the best realized Axis potential of the three, especially since that was during Logan being dead.
one of the best depictions of 60s SF is in Daredevil (especially Gehe Colan)..the artists got what the city looked like and the fashions as well.
It was during Axis that I first found ComicPop, though it was still TVLH at the time, as I was curious what it was all about. Helped get through a lot of long commutes to campus and home back then, and actually helped steer my degree path a bit as Sal was kind enough to provide an interview for a major project some years back.
You guys have always been entertaining, but have only gotten better and better. Thanks for always delivering top-notch content over the years, team, and I am excited to see what's in store.
Axis sucks, but I'm glad it lead me to the channel all those years ago.
Finally, the sequel to Axis that NOBODY wanted! Poor Matt Murdock. I'm surprised Tony didn't just give Echo her hearing back, or make Ben Grimm human again.
my childhood favorite iron-man book! (I didn't know any others)
Favorite moments
5:00
12:00
18:20
25:30
33:50
36:00
“Ok, shots fired on Jamies…”!🤣🤣🤣
This comic giving us one of ironman best quote. I'm not playing God all this time I been playing human
This is easily one of my favorite Iron Man stories!!
The question of how exactly the Extremis virus works is one that I find really, really interesting. And it's created something of a pet peeve for me when other stories try to incorporate Extremis into their plots. In the original "Extremis" storyline, using the virus is actually ridiculously risky in even the successful cases. It turns out that reprogramming your biology is wildly dangerous and traumatic. Who woulda thought? And we'd later find out that only a certain percentage of people are even biologically compatible. Anyone else just dies. So when later stories start tossing around Extremis abilities like candy, it feels like it really trivializes earlier plotlines. "Oh, I'm sure they improved on Extremis off-panel" feels like a pretty unsatisfying handwavy explanation too.
"trivializing earlier plotlines" is kinda what long running superhero comic universe are about.
@@johnthai6188I mean... not really?
@@Spikex1with the fact that there are multiple writers writing for these characters, the earlier plotlines will be trivialized. either the writers don't care about those plotlines, and ignore it, or hate it so much to retcon it to be something else. for example the fact that superman came back from the dead, trivializes the fact that superman died; a lot of characters death and returns trivializes the idea of death in comics. the fact that spider-gwen can just crossover to the 616 universe with ease, and can live there, trivializes the idea of mutliverse traveling. the fact that batman can survive a fall from the moon to the earth, with only his regular bat-suit, trivializes the character; bruce is suppose to be a human being, not a god. so making him do this feat, trivializes his character. even the MCU does this; the fact that hulk is just a joke now, trivializes the earlier plotlines of the hulk.
@@johnthai6188 "either the writers don't care about those plotlines, and ignore it, or hate it so much to retcon it to be something else." Those aren't the only options, though. There does exist the possibility of superhero stories simply... _existing_ within the same world as one another without negatively impacting each other. And for the most part, THAT is what most ongoing mainstream superhero books do. For every example you cited, there are hundreds or thousands of other stories that don't tread on the toes of earlier ones. They coexist just fine. Or you even get a writer who _does_ care and builds on the earlier foundations in a way that's true to what prior stories set up. For example, Tom Taylor wasn't the only writer to play around with Extremis after its initial story. The "Director of SHIELD" era of Iron Man comics use Extremis very well without feeling inaccurate to what Warren Ellis established earlier.
It’s almost 3am here in London and Sal saying “this isn’t a comic book roundup, you can’t use decimal points and pass it off as depth” @06:30 made me laugh so hard I’m worried I’ve woken up my roommate
So many of these videos have taught me that Joe Quesada has very specific hang-ups and opinions that he absolutely has to go out of his way to force on the entire company.
Been waiting for a back issues on this, this run is so fun for me. Having said that, I know we get a lot of Batman on the channel, and I know how Sal feels about King’s Batman run, but I would love to see you guys cover City of Bane.
One of my favorite iron man runs
Glad to know I didn't miss an actual comic of Superior Iron Man trying to solo Thanos's Cabal. And instead of killing him, they just kept him locked up in a cage until someone (Shuri? Natasha?) rescues him. And then Tony immediately dips.
tony doesn't really dips. the illuminati, steve's avengers team and superior iron man are working together to fight off an alien invasion coming from space.
The Thing breaking his smart phone left me in tears🤣🤣🤣
*Crink* "DAMNIT!"
Iron Man is the X-Traitor!?
Going through a nameless viral infection and this episode is exactly what I needed. Good work as always
First time watching a video as a sub, this channel is awesome
Tony Stark's continuity is like a messy DC origin, despite Marvel having one continious story.
Like what in particular?
34:23 “that’s like saying a postcard of a sunset is better” Sal is such a good storyteller!
This was fun! I love how it ends with them trying to figure out how Tony reverts back to being good after Secret Wars (2015).
Funny ass idea: The magic, post incursion Tony is actually just BOTH Tony's averaged together because they were just sort of taking the net deep to save as many as possible.
Great episode. Been waiting for you to do this story.
You guys are fkng hilarious and really cheered me up today, so thanks for this...!! 👍🏻
Now we need an episode on Time Runs Out!
ok if you're gonna make a bubble to keep people flipped, I feel like priority 1 for that is carnage. Although I think he was somewhere else at that point in the story?
5:35 i just love how sal raps up the axis event and explains how Superior Iron Man/Axis Tony Stark is just a straight up Villain with Good Publicity also love how Inverse Carnage sacrifice himself then went straight back to being Classic Kledus Kassidy & Carnage Symbiote
the whole stark giving matt his sight back almost gave me deja vu until I realized it was just reminding me of th e Clone Conspiracy when ben reilly was giving people what they want...as long as they take those pill *shakes bottle* like extremis *shakes ...phone*
The way Ben explained this at the beginning with his scale and said Iron Man being flipped is just him being a full-time capitalist robber-baron rather than a "I wanna rule/destroy the world"-esque villain is why I love this story. What if Iron Man was a successful but awful business mogul? A product of nepotism and an absolute piece of capitalist trash? Okay now what if that was pointed towards regular people deliberately rather than collaterally? Honestly good work on Ben.
I'd love if Marvel did something similar to "DC Earth 2" where The Avengers, would be alternate heroic versions of villains (Justin Hammer, Abomination, Norman Osborne, Sabretooth, Taskmaster, Klaue etc) and then you have your villains as The evil versions of Avenegers
Ethan over everything! He has so many revelant questions!!!!! He's immune to your shitty writing because of critical thinking skills!!!!! He must feel like how Lex Luther feels. He's violently aware that you're all on some remedial bullshit, and he's not afraid to explain it to you! Never give up, never stop! This is God's work!
The one thing I never got is that they never made Superior Villians or more Heroes. That's basically what Supreme Strange is, or what Infamous Doom could've been.
I've always wanted a superior Thanos story who seeks help from Jean to break his connection to death, so they go on a girl's trip like in the Marvels cuz their minds get entangled, he respects her more for tolerating the Phoenix, she respects him for his noble intent. Obviously Scott goes and learns how to be less jealous, Quintin invites himself and Dani gets asked by Logan and Emma to keep em updated.
The chaotic good aspect could get played up having witnesses to sparing some unfriendly psychic cultures, Thanos having access to the Phoenix and destroying a planet filled with metaphorical baby Hitlers, Jean needing to use it to destroy a wild psychic animal. Thanos then accepts that there is no way to escape death and their minds unlink but he has a portion of the phoenix still.
The villains are all so interesting imo a modern twist on the Superior series would be $$$ printers
Quote from Ethan "I don't agree"😅😂😂😂
The Superior Iron Man suit looks so dope.
This was the iron man book when I first got into comics. I actually really enjoyed it at the time, and only later learned it was Tom Taylor, who's work I often enjoy
I can't stop hearing "Tina-bomination"
Am I the only one that thinks Axis gets too much hate? I know that hero and villain switch sides stories are a dime a dozen but I was at the perfect age to like that story and i did. Cool ideas came out of it . Seeing Carnage and Sabertooth try to be good guys while nobody trusts them was pretty awesome. Superior Iron was actually great and the suit is a modern classic. It's alright.
You're certainly free to think that.
The Carnage dying wish was peak, not gonna lie.
ill be honest, i still think the liquid metal symbiote suit is really cool even if the stories a mess
Extremis like Apple when they put U2 on everyone's iTunes😆
I greatly appreciated the reference to the Derrick Comedy sketch “Jerry”
Ppl always cry abt Peter Parker not catching a break
Me a Daredevil fan 😑:yeah sure
1:24:35 Ben... Stop it. We're still figuring out how Hal Jordan Parallax is here after Convergence along with regular Hal Jordan.
“Iron Man Goes BAD”
I thought you guys already covered Civil War?
Yay more comic pop!
I love comic pop.
Woo hoo! I bet this'll be fun! I don't know what marvel I'd be reading on their app if not for this gem of a show! Stay warm my fellow!
The Avengers should of known he was evil because he was in a white suit, if your charismatic, and wearing an all white suit… you’re automatically a bad guy lol
well they had other problems to deal with, before the time runs out story. you know like fighting against the builders, thanos and his black order, an evil version of the avengers from the multiverse, AIM, the incursions, and the beyonders trying to destroy the marvel multiverse. these were just the outside forces that they had to deal with; not even accounting for the infighting and subterfuge from the illuminati. this just goes to show, the avengers had a lot of stuff on their plate. also the axis event came after the start of hickman's avengers run. until you get to time runs out, tony stark in the beginning of hickman's avengers run wasn't flipped yet: to becoming superior iron man. there is a time skip that happens in between the 4th collected vol of hickman's avengers and the time runs out story; in that time skip, tony already became superior iron man. even then, part of the time runs out story was captain america being the head of shield and going on a man hunt for the illuminati; within the illuminati group at that time tony stark was not on the team.
The virtual world is a tired idea, but y'all make such a good pitch. As well, I think it'd tie into Stark's expertise better than extremis. Lol then again, Stark running a virtual world already exists
Can you do Dimension Z. I’m dying for a captain America story 🙏🏾🙌🏾
"You can fucking CURE BLINDNESS now... With just an APP!!??......"
LOLOLOLOLMAO
Weird as it is, I understand Hickman using the incursion to fix Tony. Tony did so many shitty things in this book that I can see it being easier to say “fuck it” and erase it than stretching suspension of disbelief that people would forgive him.
i mean hickman already set-up the idea that tony will be an antagonist before the superior iron man status quo. the 3rd issue of hickman's avengers run sets up the idea captain america and iron man will fight. Steve was described as someone for life and Tony was described for death. the superior iron man status quo for tony, just sped up the development.
They did it in Civil War🤷
Thank you guys. Today is my birthday and you made my day.
A marvel Tom Taylor book I’ll recommend to death is the All New Wolverine run. I love the characters and a majority of the arcs were written with so much attention to detail and having a larger universe around it.
The main reason to watch these back issues is to listen to you guys theories about the story
Me 20 min in "man they really skipped a lot of the details"
*Realizes i skipped an hour in*
1:22:41 Ben's question goes so hard it starts shifting reality
If they ever bring him back they should team him up with Stevil lol
When he came back after Civil war 2 Slott established Tony cloned himself and Rhodey and the original versions are dead. So maybe he had done it before.
Wolverines daughter in the background....😮 😂
Would you ever consider doing Books of Doom? I recently saw a motion comic of it that made it pretty compelling.
That channel with all those motion comics is so damn cool.
I think I have a good answer. On Hikmans new avengers, it was sugested that on the months between the end of that series and the beggining of time runs out, everything that was being published by marvel at the time and that hikman didnt had nothing to do with, took place. This means axis and superior iron man happened on this period of time. At the beggining of time runs out, Tony was simmingly capture by the cabal, if am not mistaken, and then the world ends. At the end of secret wars we repit a scene from the beggining of new avengers, but ends different, to be specific, children that died originally are still alive. My interpretation that the series avengers/new avengers/ time runs out, leading up to secret wars never happened and because of that, the events of axis and superior iroman happened slightly different. In my head canon I choose to believe that because there were no heroes dealing with the incursions on this version of reality, the Tony condition was resolved.
I read this comic in high school! I didn't even read Axis beforehand 🤣🤣🤣
Can't wait for Superior Spider-Man!
Wouldn't foggy bring up the part where he came to see Matt just so Matt could see him?
Sal was thinking of Daredevil by Mark Waid when DD was kidnapped by Doctor Doom and he got injected by nano bots that somehow turned his powers off and his sight came back to compensate
No, I was thinking of Daredevil 223
@@comicpop oh shit hi Sal!
Woo!
I was super disappointed when I found out that Superior Iron Man was actually Captain Marvel in Multiverse Of Madness.
Imagine you're seeing the Inversion is coming and you're expecting you're going to be a cooler, inverted version of yourself. And then, it happens... and nothing changes.
"Sh*t!!! I'M A TWEENER?!!!"
🤣🤣🤣
Superior Yay!
I never saw "SIXIS" until you said that. Hahaha
Ah yes, the Extremis app
AXIS is when I first started reading comics, because of watching this channel! Bittersweet?
You know what would be funny? If the next time they use an AI it behaves like the AIs we have in the real world. Like maybe Spiderman creates an AI that acts like ChatGPT, so when it doesn't know stuff, it just starts making things up. "What is the Beyonder? The Beyonder is a side character in Fox's hit show Futurama voiced by John Dimaggio."
Ben's shirt is awesome
Goddamnit y'all I thought I had dealt with the Ghost of Sixis past and y'all go and revive it 😂
YUUUUUUSSSS FINALLY!!!!!!
This episode reminded me that I don't think you guys have done Iron Man: Extremis by Warren Ellis. It's a pretty cool book, and it'd be fun to hear what Ethan thinks of Extremis, lol