ZWO is on fire
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Another rant video where I sit down and run my yap with no research whatsoever. What do you think about ZWOs rise to dominance in the astrophotography camera space lately?
Is any other company doing interesting stuff I should know about? Let me know in the comments!
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I am new to the hobby. After years of watching Dylan and Trevor and others on UA-cam, I took the plunge and took my first picture last Saturday. I am starting out with the AM5, ASI533MC Pro, ASI Air and just for fun I also grabbed the ZWO EAF. So, basically ZWO all around. I was blown away with how quickly I was up and running with the ASIAIR. Less than two hours after unboxing everything, I was looking at my first sub of Carina. If this was a PC I'd probably still be fiddling with drivers and updates and settings today.
I generally do not like getting locked into an ecosystem (Apple....cough!) but the way everything integrates blew me away.
And the ASIAIR app design is excellent. I was doubtful about how they would fit guiding, focusing, histograms, mount control, polar alignment, test exposures and exposure schedules all on a tiny phone screen. But they actually made it work. Not having to be at my PC while I'm imaging is actually great. I can have a drink with a friend or cook or play with the kids while watching the subs rolling in, the guiding performance, or check the focusing, on my phone. I am pleasantly surprised.
Hey congrats! Welcome to the astro community :)
Glad to hear that you're up and going, welcome to the hobby. :-) That said, virtually everything is plug and play these days. There are a few quirks here and there, but nearly everything just works.
I think @plofstof has hit on why they're at 78% in your video, Dylan. But I think ZWO is mistaken to be as "exclusive" of other brands when it comes to hooking components up to the ASIAir, for example and is why I have no ZWO stuff (yet?) and also why neither my wife and I have any Apple tech. We're a hybrid household of Linux and Windows and Android. If the 'Air could work with a QHY or Ogma camera, it would penetrate the market even deeper, but no.
I am in the exact same boat as you. Lol. I bought a 533mc pro, 120mini guide, asiair plus and I have on backorder the new AM5N mount. In my eagerness waiting for the AM5N, ive almost pulled the trigger on the EAF.
Im hoping the mount comes in soon rather then later because i have a trip planned for beginning of Oct to a dark sky sanctuary (BWCA in MN). This trip isnt specifically for astrophotography, just our annual up north leaf peeping trip.
ZWO is the APPLE version in the astro sector. Something I don't particularly like is being “trapped” in one system without being able to mix with other systems.
That was the reason for me to use Touptek cameras with NINA.
Yeah, I find this actually going on with more vendors in the astro tech world, I have to machine custom parts to make filter wheels fit other adapters and cameras adapters shaved down to get the back focus down to a minimum as the standard 5-10-20mm dosn't cut it
I got into astrophotography right when the ASI air pro came out and I had seen a bunch of ZWO camera reviews on UA-cam. I spent months researching hardware so I wasn’t wasting money on parts I’d quickly want to upgrade. Instead of having to set up my ancient laptop with a mess of cables, array of applications, and have to figure out how to get everything to work together reliably, I could start right off with a cooled monochrome camera, filter wheel, and ASI air that could run it all. It wasn’t long before I was adding an off axis guider and autofocuser for the complete package. I never once had to worry about backspacing as all the proper sized parts were included and well documented. I have found their products to reliably function exactly as expected, without having to spend much time troubleshooting. (with the exception of the lack of WiFi antenna on the ASI, which was mostly solved with a plugin WiFi adapter). The only thing I need now is an observatory so I can leave my scope setup, and not have to lug around a bunch of heavy equipment and spend an hour setting up and aligning.
Sold... added it to the budget... 😬
Would have been interesting to see Player One in the camera voting list. They seem to be quite the up and coming competition
It's amusing the ready player one guy use to work for ZWO. Apparently they had a falling out so he left to start his own company.
I didn’t know that, interesting
@@TheBignick243are you sure you're not confusing ready player one with those shady astcampan?
@@TheBignick243 About a year ago I saw a Japanese film (Insomniacs after School) which heavily featured astrophotography, and frequently showed a large SCT made by a company called Showa. Turns out that company was founded in a similar way in the 60's, except the guy (a man named Hidaka) left Takahashi. There's not much I can find on it, but I really want to know what the full story behind this, what did Takahashi of all companies didn't do to make Hidaka think "yeah, I could do it better."
@@DylanODonnell he did not just work for ZWO, he was one of the 2 main partners of the company….
You are kickin' it Dylan! We'll get you to 100,000 before you know it! If only I could subscribe more than once.
Cheers man ! 🍻
What I like about ZWO cameras is that they come with all the adapters, cables, etc. that you need with clear instructions on how to achieve backfocus in various configurations. My experience with their customer service has been excellent. (I had the dreaded oil leak issue with my 2600, and they swiftly sent me a replacement.) After struggling in vain to get a Raspberry Pi to work, I can appreciate the appeal of the ASIAir, although I haven't been tempted by it because I don't want to be locked into one company's ecosystem.
I just got back into astronomy when I learned about EAA, picked up a Celestron Nexstar Evolution. I got a ZWO ASI585 CW partly because ZWO seems to have a critical mass. They are everywhere, good products, reasonable prices, etc. The red color pops too. With a computerized scope, a decent, inexpensive camera and StarCap, etc. viewing is so easy and rewarding. The biggest problem I've had is troubleshooting software (the camera was easy). Once I got everything updated and working together it's amazing what you can do. I also got a Hyperstar and can go out on my porch in Dallas and observe galaxies and nebulae otherwise impossible to see.
When I bought my first astro camera years ago, I soon narrowed my choice down to zwo and qhy. Both companies at that point in time, were the only ones offering cmos at a good price. To me, at that time, it seemed that qhy cameras were better except intwo areas. One was the support for linux, which qhy lacked. The other was that qhy seemed to have issues with electrical interference affecting image download. But their cameras had internal memory, and zero amp glow. ZWO cameras at that time had no internal cache memory, and suffered from amp glow. Although I was very much in favour of qhy, in the end I chose ZWO, because their cameras were compatible with linux. For my next camera, I will probably go for cheaper brands, like Omegon.
I’ve had some trouble with Celestron. Mount didn’t work and electronic focuser broke my RASA but to their credit Celestron replaced it. For just build quality and optics I like William Optics.
I love Zwo. Had issues with the other major brand cameras.
Very interesting topic Dylan, loved your take on it. I do think ZWO's ability and willingness to bring out new products frequently and their ability to integrate their products with good software solutions is what is driving their popularity and success at the moment. I was an early adopter of the ASI1600MM-Cool (instead of a CCD camera I almost bought) and have never regretted that purchase. That camera is still doing good work for me 9 years later. When it came time to get a 2nd camera I was in the market for one of the 571 sensor based solutions and would gladly have gotten an ASI2600M but it was right during the issues with the TEC thermal pad contamination on the ZWO cameras so I went with the QHY268M instead. It has been good for me as well. I do like the build quality of the QHY cameras a little better but I think they have always struggled more with their software/firmware than ZWO. One of my first astro purchases was a QHY5L-II guide camera and I could never get it to run reliably due to driver issues. That kept me away from the QHY brand for quite a long time.
Your journey is very similar to mine! That old guider dropped so many frames. But the qhy268 has been solid !
You never forget your first. My 90 WO had a sexy black body, with golden rings and 3 air-spaced elements. I miss it so much
Thanks for another thoughtful video! To me, ZWO’s three big moves in the industry were making ever-improving CMOS cameras affordable, making strainwave mounts affordable and then making beginner EAA affordable. The ASIAir has lots of fans too, but I prefer N.I.N.A. Apart from their attempts to lock users into their own ecosystem with the ASICap software and ASIAir, since like you I enjoy using varieties of brands, I really like their products. I especially love their AM5 strainwave. I’ve seen some other AP UA-camrs knock them for no other apparent reason than they are a Chinese company. Why? They are an optics company, not the Central Committee. May the market bless the makers and innovators of good products, and that’s what they do. Still, I always reserve the right to go with other brands if I think their stuff is better for me. I’ve yet to get a 571 sensor, but when I do, I’m going with PlayerOne. Their Poseidon has an accessible tilt plate on the back and the accompanying OAG has a bigger pickup prism. Still, I’m glad ZWO is there; they’ve done a lot for the imager and industry. Thanks again and cheers!
Well said !
Mate I ponders this as well watching the Neaf videos trickle through on UA-cam. ZWO = ecosystem and they do it well. Spot-on regarding software development. I started with ZWO and enjoyed the ecosystem; now I'm using a variety of brands: QHY, Primalucelab, Optec etc., and no ZWO.
Do I miss the ZWO ecosystem... Honestly I do a bit, but my astro has come so far since I've steered away to other brand and equipment.
I have used QHY, SX, QHY and ZWO cameras and gear. The only one I never had drivers issues was with ZWO. Truly plug and play.
I loved the ASIAir+ when I was starting out, it was so simple to operate. If it supported other astro cameras, I would likely still have it. They have many products that interest me, but so do other manufacturers. When I got into this hobby they were already the popular camera brand, and they're doing the smart thing by branching out into other things such as telescopes and mounts. That brand name recognition will take them a long way.
just built my first mono astro rig. everything exept of the mount and nb filters is zwo. really excited to start imaging in a few days when everything (including me😂😂) arrives at one place
The oil leak issue put me off ZWO cameras completely but they have created a very nice ecosystem.
I went for a QHY268M instead. It has 5 read-out modes and a bigger memory buffer compared to the ZWO equivalent. The QHY is perfect for science projects.
Yeh I love that camera!
What made me a ZWO fan is the ASIAir. I've got a laptop and all the drivers and plug-ins, but being still pretty new to the AP game, it's been a difficult and uphill learning curve to integrate it all. A good friend got an early Raspberry Pi and it seemed much better to use, but you had to be familiar with Linux commands. ZWO sort of took the Air and made it a Raspberry Pi for Dummies, making its use intuitive and clear and all inclusive, being able to run the mount, plate solve, polar align, guide and even stack images, and be able to do it from your phone or a tablet wirelessly. I know there are similar products from other companies, but they aren't as affordable and don't appear to have anything ZWO doesn't for a competitive price. Understand, I'm not trying to copy Hubble or Webb in image quality, but I don't want to need a PhD in computer science to take some decent astro pics.
You are vastly exaggerating the complexity of a mini pc setup. Laughably so.
@@Masoch1st May not be complex to you, and it is much simpler than all the drivers and accessory programs you have to choose between and install on a laptop, but not everybody sees computers of any sort as simple and intuitive to use. I'm 70 years old and for most of my life computation has been pencil and paper and long division, so to speak, and even a smart phone can pose challenges for me. Maybe if it's as easy as you seem to think, you should put up a few "AP for Dummies" videos that so many enthusiasts like me could use, given the number of comments similar to my own I've read here and elsewhere.
@@DeereX748 No. you're making it scarier than it is. Yes, it can feel overwhelming at first, but if you just calm down and push through it, you'll see it really isnt. but do you, the fact of the matter is, the ASIAIR is totally inferior. Sorry. It is a cool product though, I dont hate it. But you do not have a better product lol
@@DeereX748 I read a comment that agrees with me, therefore I'm right = confirmation bias.
I use zwo and the ASIAIR. I just wish they would make it so I could use my eq6rpro with two scopes and two cooled cameras at the same time. Maybe a setting to make one asiair the “slave”, just to take photos and cool the secondary camera set up. The “primary” asiair could do all the other stuff like dither and meridian flip. If any of that makes sense…
Well, I have a Celestron SCT and a WO refractor, both on Skywatcher mounts, both with ASIAIR and ASI cameras, ASI cameras on the guide scopes, and a ZWO EAF on the SCT. I guess I'm on the popularity bandwagon, but I love my builds, they meet all my needs. I hated the ASIAIR when I first got it, so I stuck with NINA, but they made some major changes to the interface and now the ASIAIR is my favorite. On the guitar note, I have a Fender acoustic and a Charvelle/Jackson CSM-1G (original owner) and it's about 25 years old.
Nice .. is the Jackson for metal shreds?
@@DylanODonnell blues mainly, but it was punk in the early days, and classic rock
They make great products, but they push lock-in and they have an excessively fast product release cycle that makes it hard for small vendors to catch up and stay in business. Only major companies can keep up and with their release cycles. It also kills the second hand market with such aggressive release cycles
I have a few ZWO products. They work very well and I'm overall happy with them. I just don't care for the fact that they've locked down the ASIAir, although I understand the decision to do so. It basically ensures it's plug and play with all their devices and they don't have compatability issues. I have heard a number of people have issues with certain mounts from certain manufacturers though, which does give me a bit of pause when considering integrating one into my own setup. Still, good company with great products, so credit where credit is due.
Frankly as a new comer the two things that made me get ZWO equipment is the awesome AM5 mount and their ASIair, not the cameras. But using an ASIair means you gotta use their cameras.
ZWO? It’s the red. 🤔 Visual Astronomy forever! 😊
Working in a remote observatory. We highly disrecommend ZWO product. The amount of problem we have on the cameras/EFW, between the tilt of the sensor, camera vibration, camera readout problem and so on and the support when you have an issue is just a red flag to me.…
Player one is much much better and all my cameras will be from them from now on and we’ll recommend to customers as well. Customer support is reactive.
My 2cts
Thanks for the warning !
I use both , nailed it with ascom compliance
Why ZWO, the answer is simple, I prefer to be taking Astro images rather than setting up to take images. An integrated ZWO setup means steps can take 2mins rather than 2 hours (those of you who used to manual polar align know what I mean)
They did well with marketing / influencers and design. However, Player One is a better option IMO. I’ll take the lower price point and USB-C.
Software is THE reason I bought ZWO stuff from auto focuser to the cameras to the ASIair
Why ZWO better than the rest? DRIVERS. Windows native drivers, indy drivers, you name it. The Camera has to have good-working drivers which is updated as needed to be. Having working drivers make or break imaging. You can have the best ever made camera, it's an expensive paperweight if there are no working drivers for it! Every single time I bought a camera , my first thing was to look up what the drivers are and look up discussion about the camera. That's because I had bad experiences with cameras a couple of years ago, especially their outdated or buggy/glitchy drivers.
True!
It's never good for innovation/quality when one manufacturer is dominant. That seems to be where we are heading.
In my opinion the success of ZWO is because they made it simple for everyone to start with astrophotography, they are doing where PHD2 stands for ... lolI
For myself I like to choose the different things myself and not being pushed into one brand
What about ToupTek?
Different world from 5 years ago!
ZWO has much much much better support for Linux and FOSS.
another individual example, I have a QHY8PRO, the external power module is terrible, low efficiency, and the stupid DIN connector constantly goes loose.
ZWO have successfully taken the Apple path… coming from cameras and building a useability ecosphere around them.
For me personal ... i hope that china keeps thier feet together in the politic sense ....
That could not only ruin zwo ... but cripple the astronomy-world itself 😢
ZWO like most Chinese companies is most likely controlled or even owned by the Chinese government but outwardly appears as a private company. As this is an astronomy platform I shall keep my political views to myself but you make a very good point about China's dominance in this market. They are also beginning to dominate in other markets as well. Whether that is a good thing is open to question.
Yeh that and many industries. It would be nice if we could all play nice because I love a lot of china made products.
ZWO is moving towards a legit all-in-one imaging item. Not one of these gimmicks, but a legit rig. That being said, how much are they paying you to say this? Haha.
Not sponsored .. just running my yap :)
@@DylanODonnell Haha, word. I do agree. Software has been the biggest advancement in Astro.
ohhh headace.
I think ZWO is doing well because they are taking the confusion out of the difficulty this hobby has. EG... ASIAIR... that was a total game changer for me. I have had good success with their customer service as I had a warranty issue with a camera. I really like sky-watcher as I use their mount. Sky-watcher needs to step up their game on innovation. Their new strain wave mount is over a year late to the market. I think they may have missed the boat with everyone converting. Their mount still wont me available till August.
Good points
I think one of the most helpful things ZWO did was standardize all their adapters and accessories to always easily give you 55mm of back focus with clear pictures how and all the adapters in the box. Why have other manufacturers struggled with this?
@@AaronDalton1in order to sell you accessories and fancy adaptors etc
They significantly reduce the difficulty in doing things, but in return, they lock you into their ecosystem. Sounds very familiar in a fruit-shaped way...
Not just the strain wave mount.. Also in the scope department of skywatcher.. what's new there?
the Esprit lineup has been the only one really to consider for years? a scope from 2018... still at a premium price......the newts are "so so".. and the dobs are good, but not for photography... and kinda pricey..
When William optics, with the redcat has been doing scopes for a while that don't require back focus... and ZWO has a scope lineup now too with a very ease of use.. And Askar bringing loads of scopes for "cheap".. a lot with ease of use and flat field.. in a variety of price classes.
Where is the quintuplet Esprit flat field lineup?
Skywatcher does almost nothing in the filter department (filterwheels), nothing in camera's, focusers, rotators, computers, OAG's, etc - They HAD the granddaddy of the mounts that got them to the top.., the EQ6... (keep in mind, this came out in 2010...)
and have done very little since then to stay at the top.. the EQ8 is still the big boy obviously which is out of the budget for most.. And they have a good star tracker which will be obsolete if ZWO ever comes with a ZWO AM1 that runs on a battery.
It's not just the strain wave that is too late (and honestly a hint overpriced at 200-300 bucks over the ZWO AM3/5).. they're behind in EVERY part of this hobby considering their top of the line items stem from 2010? & 2018.. while ZWO has diversified and become a one stop shop for pretty much everything you need in this hobby.
The most popular option isn’t always the best often times it’s the best marketed
True!
This 100000%.
NINA and all the plugins are free and much more powerful than the ASI Air. A mini PC required for NINA can be quite a bit less than an ASI Air solution. There are other camera solutions that are a lot less than ASI. As a NINA user, I can't imagine not outgrowing the ASI walled garden.
I agree 💯
Absolutely, the main reason I don't have an Asi air is because I hate closed ecosystems
If you don't want to run Windows, then the ASI AIR is a good alternative for a not stupid price. That said, I would rather use NINA too, even though I absolutely hate the constant Windows updates.
@@BBROPHOTO If you don't want to run Windows you also have Astroberry or Stellarmate based on Raspi, and you can instal Ekos/KStar on any Linux.
Greetings.
the thing is, you can use the asiair for a lightweight, mobile, ease/fast to setup system. i also use a windows system for planetary imaging, but that thing is bigger, eats more power and is less easy to use than the asiair. and i havent yet found a imaging software with integrated tracking, i just cant understand why they cant integrate phd into their software... (could be outdated, havet spent much time lately in keeping me up to date)
By "on fire" I thought you might be talking about their website being a mess lately, it's soooo slow after they updated it.
I'm a big fan of Svbony though, they seem to be pumping out new cameras every month, and some some decent scopes too, probably 50-70% the price of their competitors. Over the last year or two as I was building and adding to my rig, I did do a lot of searching before buying each new thing, and I ended up with everything being SVbony except for my mount.
It was like _"Do I buy the ASI294 from ZWO for €999+import tax(or maybe import tax might be included, but they don't tell you), or buy the same camera, SV405CC, from Svbony for €650 with tax included?"_
ZWO has revolutionized amateur astronomy, in ease, quality, and price. We can do so much more with our gear, with much less drama in object location, focusing, polar alignment, and soon, camera alignment. I get that they lock you into their ecosystem with the ASIAIR, but that's not the problem many people think it is, b/c their stuff is so good, and so well priced.
I was visiting a friend in their optics research lab last year and was surprised to see a ZWO 294MM set up on an optical table! It was a bit scary to see an astronomy camera placed straight in the path of a laser 😂
Wow .. lasers are cool :)
Disclaimer: I am a heavy user of ZWO, largely because of the ease of use of the Asiair. This device and it’s “walled garden” approach is likely the driving force behind the company’s success. That being said, there’s an issue that doesn’t get enough public discussion. The software behind the Asiair is open source with limitations for commercial use. The GNU license clearly states that any forks must be published when used in this manner. ZWO doesn’t do so as it risks bringing down their walls. Will the other shoe drop one day? Maybe. Personally, I’d hope so. Just something to think about.
Player One should have been in the list. These days, all my cameras and my filter are Player One for two reasons. Quality-wise, they always deliver a step above ZWO. But main thing is this: If I have technical questions or need service, PO gets back to me instantly. When the Canadian winter proved too cold at sub -30C for the PO Phoenix filter wheel, their tech came online same day, modified the filter wheel's firmware and they offered to make and send me a special low friction washer for the wheel. When NINA 3.0 came out and the PO Ares-M had some issues with it, I contacted them, they got back immediately with a link to their new ASCOM driver and their tech logged into my camera that day, updated the firmware and spent three hours running tests on the camera just to make sure it was all good. PO comes through with customer service.
I reached out to them for help choosing a camera and their CEO responded with an in depth and helpful response! Been a fan ever since then.
That’s AstroPhysics level service from a Chinese company, which is almost unbelievable.
Let's not forget how pretty their boxes are either. I nearly gag each time I look at my boring ZWO camera box!
that is quality support. Impressive stuff. I see why PO is becoming very popular.
lol “Takahashi snobs” - mr Byron-Bay-got-my-own-star-party 😄
hahahahahaha
@@DylanODonnell Byron Bay Observatory? More like Ivory Tower Observatory 😎😎😎
I am a multi vendor user. I use the best gear for a specific task. Skywatcher CQ 350 has been a amazing replqcement for my CGX that broke down. My C8 with hyperstar and Reducer and as a planitary its so veritile. Still have my AVX mount that is my solar mount for my Explore Scientific ED80 Cf i use with ZWO 174mm and Daystar Quark with built in 4.2x barlow and its a blast for the sun. I uses gear that i can be creative and productive. Deepspace is ZWO 2600 pro. ZWO works great becuse the inovate. Global shutter is a must for solar and mono and when u start understand why that is. Then u evolve. Clear skies and always happy when a new video comes up.
Yep.. my rig is so diverse it's woke.
I feel left out of the game as I only buy used gear and mainly use the tech of yesteryear. Meade Schmidt Newtonian on a NEQ6 plus with DSLR and narrowband Filters if need be. I am falling out of your demographic it seems -.-
All the new stuff iterates pretty fast.. the second hand market is a legitimate and good way to be doing this too. Really smart. Quite a bit of my gear was second hand starting out.
The asi air is i think the best decision zwo has made. Super easy to use for all the new people who are coming into this hobby to have a more painless experience starting out and lock them into their brand from the get go. I'm one of those people and I'm constantly looking for another plug an play option that is more open source than the asi air because I do want to use other brands. But I made my whole rig to work flawlessly with the asi air so a new system has to match that pretty well for me to make the move.
That's in my opinion why everyone is on zwo gear
I think both QHY and ZWO have a monopoly, I literally don't care if I have either camera (they integrate the same sensors equally IMO). I just think the two companies make their products more available to the market unlike companies like SBIG or other more niche AP camera companies. They are kind of like the Nikon, Canon and Sony but for the astro world. ZWO is doing better because they're expanding out to other things like the air and strain wave mounts. But at the same time, they're kind of like Skywatcher, they found their niche and the rest is somewhat forgotten sometimes.
Interesting point.
Your remark about Fender and Gibson reminds me of something the legendary Marty Forscher (who repaired Nikons for New York professionals) said about film cameras back in the 1970s: If you ask professional photographers what the next camera should be like, they'll ask for living fossils, very minor variations on cameras they've had a long time. You have to ask amateurs or newcomers what the next camera should be like. (I'm paraphrasing, but the words "living fossils" were his.)
Haha exactly
At least for the American market, the biggest thing ZWO did was open a camera repair center in the states. So there’s the fact that if you’re sending in your camera for repair, you don’t have to ship it to China.
Huge difference. As someone living on the prison colony I know the pain.
Because QHY has crappy drivers that never want to work properly
I used to have that problem with QHY years ago .. but really not at all in recent years. The all in one driver kinda solved everything.
I am really interested to see where svbony is going. Not inovators, thats true, but their options are towards the lower end of the budget. I got the SV405CC, which is basically a 294 camera for just $650 new (taxes and all expenses paid). Trouble with them, as i have seen people complaining online, is their hit and miss QC and customer support, but I just hope, for the sake of lower budget astrophotographers, that this can change towards good.
A sensor is a sensor!
Good to see a Renishaw motorised inspection head at 6.05 (on the TV) not to mention the Renishaw encoders improving mount technology too. I like the ZWO red too..my blue WO Z61 looks wrong on the AM5 with a red Daystar Quark and a Red ASI174 and an ASIAir. It is definitely making me itch to buy a new red refractor!
How do you know if someone has a Takahashi? They will tell you.
Yes :)
What about Touptek?
I started with a Questar, then Meade (LX90), then onto IOptron mounts with various refractors and reflectors. Now, I’m all in on ZWO. I have an AM3 (had an AM5), ASIAIR PLUS and a ASI2600 Duo. As soon as the ASI2600 AIR/DUO is available, I’ll be purchasing it (I’m into smaller and less cables). I have to drive to image, so faster, easier setup and tear down is a priority for me.
I Have Metallic Red Dove Tail Bars On My Evoguide And Evostar,Looking For Red Rings For The Evoguide😊I Like It Over The Metallic Green..But I Do Love The All White Mount.Everything Just Looks Sharp And Clean To Me..Clear Skies❤️✨🔭
Thank you Dylon for putting all of this in perspective. I'm a big fan of ZWO, Celestron and Skywatcher, and enjoyed your video. I think ZWO does a great job with their software, drivers, and gear that makes all this star stuff...pun intended...easy and fun to use.
yes, 100% completely true, ZWO imo grew buy the CMOS cams, but now they are more a software company - and tbh a real good one. the asiair with the app is really amazing. none of the other competitors have something similar, ofc the customer binding by not supporting other brands is not that nice, but understandable
9 days late with this take but.... ASIAIR. ASIAIR is the reason for ZWO's camera proliferation. I have a friend whose images are amazing. Brilliantly smart fellow but refuses to dicker with NINA, SGP or APT. His main rig is a 12" Ritchey-Chrétien which he runs with ASIAIR.
I have accumulated cameras over the years I've been doing AP, so now I have a Starlight Xpress, 3 ZWO and one each QHY and Moravian. No way would I want to get involved with ASIAir and it's "walled garden" ecosystem.
Regarding AO, SX have a simple AO unit at £££, and I think they were showing a pre-production combined AO and focuser. But this is SX so expect ££££££.
6:35 while I agree that ZWO is innovating and iterating fast, I wouldn't say it's a reason for all the defects that have been reported (eg oil leaks, indeed vibration on some cameras, including the 2600mm I have where you had to change it yourself, etc). Having said that, I don't think it's a ZWO-specific issue but more a general issue nowadays. Many companies sell products they don't even test themselves.. and that is really an issue. I think remember receiving the first batch of CEM26 from iOptron where after a few hours of usage, an internal screw was untighten and you couldn't use it anymore.. Customer support was also pretty bad, suggesting just to put some lock it glue to solidify it.. which they actually did in their later batch.. not great IMO. So here it is : those companies do some basic and very simple tests but don't use their products themselves, hence all the issues we see in the real world. They should probably do pre-release with a bunch of experienced astronomers to make sure to fix those before release, otherwise the customers become the testers..
how is skywatcher still a major player? ... I love my EQ6-R... but what has skywatcher done since then? Also in their scope department.. what's new there? the Esprit lineup has been the only one really to consider for years for photography? a scope from 2018... still at a premium price... only a triplet.. still needing back focus...
While William optics has the redcoats and pleiades... and ZWO has a good scope lineup without needing back focus.. And Askar bringing loads of scopes a lot of quadruplets and quintuplets without the need for back focus at a good price.
Skywatcher does almost nothing in the filter department (filterwheels), camera's, focusers, rotators, computers, OAG's, etc -
They HAD the granddaddy of the mounts that got them to the top.., the EQ6... (keep in mind, this came out in 2010?.....) and have done very little since then to stay at the top.. the EQ8 is still the big boy obviously, but way over budget for the masses.. And they have a good star tracker which will be obsolete if ZWO ever comes with a ZWO AM1 that runs on a battery.
Celestron isn't really any different. They're riding on the C8-9.25-11 lineup and RASA's. Celestron might be the only one to consider if you need any of the Schmidts and Rasa's.
but overall. for me.. ZWO wins easy.. bringing "new" and easy technologies to the "masses", in every part of this hobby, at an an affordable price... with an incredible ease of use because it all works together and all talks to each other.. without going into EQmod and dealing with drivers?.. or drivers for camera's?.. drivers for focusers?..
- ZWO wins hands down.. in pretty much every department.. because it feels like they're the only ones that are actually trying to reach every department of the hobby. it's a one stop shop for most of what you need.
- Antlia wins it for me in the filter department for me (3nm filters for "cheap" compared to astrodon, and good multiband filters up there with optolong)
- Askar might win it in refractor scopes considering the flat field and cost.. William optics is pricey, from the 6-7 ranges they have, I'd only consider the cats and pleiades, at higher cost than similar Askar's.
- Celestron obviously for the Schmidts and RASA and some of the mounts.
- Skywatcher maybe only gets it in the EQ6 department for me, but that mount is standing on thin ice considering the weight capacity most people need.. the 100/150i's will be interesting, but 2 years too late..
My issue with ZWO is mainly around the ASIair. I still don't understand the camera support, ZWO still refuse QHY, Altaik, Atik, Player ONE etc connectivity to the ASIair. I just don't understand why and I am yet to hear a decent argument for it, they support Canon and Nikon, the drivers are freely available and they would massively expand their customer base. My fear here is actually ZWO going the other way and dropping support for Skywatcher for mounts. For a hobby full of open standards this thing bugs the crap out of me!
I just ventured into Astrophotography after two years of visual. I just recently bought the Asiair mini, 120mm guide camera and the new ZWO ASI585MC Pro. Took out that other night nothing but failure on plate solving on polar alignment. Still trying to figure what happened. It might be my focus.
I've had a few different brands of cameras over the years- ZWO cams work pretty well and I like the fact that they got a unified driver out early on. QHY software feels like it should be running on Windows 3.1 but it works well enough. I do feel like the QHY cams are somehow sturdier and I prefer black to the ZWO red. My newest camera acquisition is a 571 sensor camera but it's an Altair (26c). It's just fine also. I got it used for a great price on CN. I don't swear by any brand (except I totally agree with you on Skywatcher mounts). I will say that ZWO took a big blocker down for noobz with the ASIair. Like the Seestar, it's not perfect but it is very much enables people to get into astronomy who otherwise might have shied away because of the learning curve. Like them or not, ZWO is here to stay.
ZWO 2600mc in the UK is over £600 more expensive than the Altair 26C camera using the same Sony 571 sensor. Bye bye ZWO
I have the impression that ZWO is on course to an "apple-ization", i.e. vertical integration - monopsony - price gouging. I recently bought my first Astro cam, a guide Cam, and decided against them for this reason (and some specific problem with the 120mm I was considering).
Now I'm considering buying an imx 533 cooled camera. I saw a good deal on an asi 533 MC Pro, a good 30% off. I compared it to the Player One Ares C Pro, calculated what it would cost to add the dew heater and tilt adapter that one has integrated and found them to be about the same price after that, with PO being a lot neater. So, there already seems to be a ZWO "tax" similar to the Apple "tax" and for me, who prefers open source software and systems it makes no sense to pay that.
I don't have everything ZWO but I do like their cameras. As long as everything is ASCOM compliant, I can pretty much set up different rigs for different purposes to use with NINA or ASIAir dependent on the set up (home vs travel).
In NZ it is very hard to get ZWO locally. I would imagine a poll here in Kiwiland would put QHY on top. If we want ZWO, we need to buy from Aus and pay the import fees.
True, I've still got a QHY9 CCD in my collection, still a good camera, only use it for 15min plus exposures though to get above the noise.
You can also purchase direct from ZWO and have it shipped from China. Will usually arrive in less than a week.
Explore Scientific sucks. They have some good and bad products, but as a company they are mediocre. Sure, they are no major player.
Dylan, the answer to your question is easy. ZWO sells convenience. They don't sell cameras or mounts or ASI Airs. They sell convenience. And this is what younger generations require above everything else. I'm only in this hobby due to ZWO!
ZWO for cameras , Celestron for the c11 hd Hyperstar , C8 HD and Paramount MTY is what I have landed on. I personally had a lot of trouble with Celestron mounts , iOptron was better but seems to be fading away to some extent. After all that I decided to go with reliablility and stop chasing the next best thing.
well player one does a good job too,they make very good cooled cameras,with much more options then zwo and for a good price.
Software support is what its all about. ZWO supported their hardware on many platforms, not just PC/ASCOM.
I think ZWO hit the covid astronomy surge. And I say this as a Covid astronomer.... Having said that , I love their cameras (I own 2), their focusers i own 1, their filters i also own 1
I would buy ZWO stock if I could. I can see them getting into other types of imaging too. They truly make astrophotography easier.
I avoid ZWO just like I avoid Apple. I don't like the idea of being stuck in brand like asiair obbligates. I like Stellarmate, though. Is an awesome iot that allows integration between different brands
I have ZWO gear like there EAF and my guide camera 120mm-s and will get me a planetary camera as well. But for my Astro camera I will go for Player one. They use the same chip and have seen great reviews on it. But most importantly I can get 2 player one cameras for the prices off one ZWO.
As a newbie to this, I personally just love how simple ZWO makes things. Getting an Asiair Plus was an absolute game changer for me. One of the things I particularly enjoy is that I'm able to live stack and show people what I'm imaging, much like automated telescopes, but I'm also not locked into a single telescope or camera.
I went down the zwo asair path reluctantly as I hate monopolisation, but I'm a time poor enthusiast. I'm totally opposed to being restricted to only being able to run ZWO products with it and they would do themselves a great service in the industry if they broke away from the monopolisation model. That said it works for me and most astro snobs would probably fall off their bar stool laughing at the pics ive achieved, but like everything in this hobby. When we start being snobs and judgemental it's not a fun hobby anymore.
Zwo is doing so well because everything in this hobby does not fit everything else. Eg canon lenses fit canon cameras. Well zwo works with and fits everything Zwo. So why ques if the new bit of equipment that’s $ 500 or more is going to work with what you got. Only to find out you need to spend $500 more to make it work on your system…
ZWO makes nice products, no doubt. They need to work on their customer service, which is dreadful.
Hands down the ASIAIR and it’s plug and play easy of use has won over a lot of people myself included. It’s software will continue to attract new users who want an easy way into a complicated hobby.
F2 scopes, I think whoever focuses on the seestar type stuff and getting f2 speed like a 135mm f2 samyang lens. Is where it is. The majority of people are not technical and like my mother loves the Seestar and ease of use and cell phone EAA via wifi will do well.
I started with a ZWO 533mc because of the price and then went with a guide camera and asi air plus. I also now have a 662 for planetary. The zwo gear integrates and just works.. it makes it easy for the beginner. I always had trouble with nina.. it only ever worked when it felt like it and required me to setup a laptop.. now I do everything from my tablet sitting on the lounge.. its a beginners dream for astro.
I've been trying to hold out on purchasing the 2600mc duo but it seems like no other company can keep up with ZWO.
Never used ZWO cameras as main cameras, only as guiders. There are better options on the market, for example Moravian.
I wish ZWO as a sw company were a good citizen of open source software community. It is very regrettable that they haven't honored the copyright of various pieces of open source software.
For cameras, I don't see ToupTek on the list. I think they are more popular than Altair and ATIK. On top of that they are trying to make their own asiair (ToupTek AstroStation), I hope it will be successful. We need more competition.
Interesting, yeh I didn’t do any intense research just googled astronomy camera and picked whatever showed up the most.
I'd argue that in terms of innovation, Pegasus Astro are still significant front runners, compared to zwo.
Some of zwo,s products need a re think lol, what mono duo cmos camera, not really good when using 3nm ha filters..
ZWO force users to use their cameras through locked down propriety software via Air
ZWO can improve their website. Lots of cameras but not very good at being able to filter to select for a particular application.
@altair astro are popular in the UK, being UK based, but their cameras are top notch and don't tie you into a specific platform, so more open to cross brand setups.
A Seestar is to astrophotography, what a Polaroid is to photography. Want a real camera buy a digital Hasselblad