DOOM ETERNAL LORE: SECRET CRUCIBLE PROPHECY - SERAPHIM IDENTITY - VEGA THE FATHER OF URDAK
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
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Twitter / acidglowx
This video will cover the Untold Prophecy of the Crucible, Seraphim Identity and connection to Samuel Hayden, Vega is the Father of Maykrs? And we look at a few other topics. What happened to Samuel Hayden after Doom 2016? The Flaming Sword Secret. Why did Seraphim Betray Heaven?
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Hayden really lucked out on the fact that Doomguy decided to make a back up of VEGA. Eternal literally wouldn't have happened if Doomguy didnt keep him
Makes me wonder why the Slayer left VEGA behind on Urdak.
horrorfan117 wait, you sure? Because maybe that makes things right
@@horrorfan117 He didn´t have a backup chance this time around.
Slayer*
@@horrorfan117 this might be explored in the DLC with Vega now becoming Father?
Notice how on the 11th mission of Eternal Samuel says “all of this soul harvesting could’ve been avoided under.......different leadership.......” he talks of the Khan Makyr’s acts as unholy. What does Samuel Hayden of all people care of holiness?
It says Samur (the Seraphim) stole the Essence of The Father and both were nowhere to be found shortly after. It sounds to me like Samur changes his identity to Samuel Hayden in some way, becomes head of the UAC, and VEGA’s amazing “A.I.” comes from the fact that he may be an actual essence of a God.
Considering the very similar voices, similar name (Samur Maykr/Samuel Hayden) and very self-referential speech from 2016-Eternal, I think we can be very confident that Samur and Samuel are one in the same SOMEHOW. How that is, I don’t know.
If Samuel is the Seraphim, and VEGA is The Father, it would make sense, considering VEGA and Samuel seem to have a close “bond” in Doom 2016.
That, or the “Essence of The Father” could’ve been what the Seraphim blessed Doomguy with in secret in order to make him extremely fast and powerful, essentially combining man with God to LITERALLY make Doomguy a Demi-god.
It should also be noted that all of the Samur-Vega-Doomguy stuff would likely have to take place BEFORE “Hayden” joined the UAC.
If it’s true that 2016 and Eternal are sequels to Doom 1, 2, and 64 (which take place in 2022), then this would mean Doomguy was in Hell or stuck, or something for about 130 years. (It says Hayden returned to Earth with the demonic crucible in 2150, meaning Doom’16 ends around 2149-2150, yet you can find audio logs dating 2163 in Eternal, meaning a decent amount of time has passed).
Remember: The Father’s Essence is what allowed the Makyrs to resurrect after a while. The Makyrs seem to just resurrect rather than reproduce. If Samur had not stolen The Father’s Essence then the Khan Makyr wouldn’t need to harvest humans’ souls on Earth for energy.
Perhaps the Seraphim wanted all of this to happen, the evil bastard.
And if you think about it, this all lines up. He blesses Doomguy with great power around let’s say 2030, so that he can live indefinitely, then changes his identity and takes lead of the UAC, so that over a hundred years later he will be able to find Doomguy in hell again. It actually makes sense now, why Hayden is so immediately familiar with how furious Doomguy might be at the beginning of Doom’16.
It’s worth noting that the game itself DOES point out that Samur acted against the Khan Makyr’s wishes. Yet, it also says Makyrs are physically incapable of going against the Khan Makyr’s wishes.
So how?
Perhaps it was The Father’s wish, perhaps “God” or The Father was angry and displeased at the Khan Makyr’s actions, and needed to bring about his “wrath” on the Khan Makyr through Doomslayer, possibly cementing Samur as the new Khan Makyr.
Again, Hayden points out the Khan Makyr’s “unholy” acts that “could’ve been avoided under different leadership”
I think the whole “Samuel Hayden is a human with cancer” backstory may be the biggest hole in the story. If you really think about it, Samuel Hayden’s body isn’t THAT different from a Makyr body. Echoey voice, white, robotic. Yet there definitely IS a picture of him as a human. Did he manipulate time, create a placeholder human, so that a “Samuel Hayden” could be born, get cancer, and then take his place thru possession and use the “Cyborg” body?
2016 itself already points out that Hayden conveniently has the first ever Cyborg body EVER, and through the power of Argent Energy. It also points out that the Cyborg body is surprisingly powerful. Let’s not forget that he activated the Crucible into its blade form at the end of Doom 2016, already knowing how to use it, and went on right after Doom’16 to lead the ARC to fight against demons. The crucible is only supposed to be able to react to certain beings.
Those are a lot of good points. One thing though, I'm pretty sure that the codex only said that Maykr DRONES were unable to act against the Khan Maykr, as they are direct extensions of her will.
@@juliendacoolien3454 Nah im fairly sure it was all Makyrs sahring the collective conciousness, I could be wrong tho, this was jus the impression i got
Those are good points but 130 years seems abit to little for doomguy. I'm sure it was stated in the testament of codex somewhere that he wss in hell for eons (billions of years,long time) because of time distortion. Idk tbh I have yet to finish 2016 I have only finished eternal.
Edit: didn't the khan maykr try to use argent energy before losing the all father essence? Didn't she try to become completely immortal by sustaining herself on argent energy? Plus isn't earth not the only planet that was sucked of life? What happened to the other planets? Why didn't the slayer try to save argent d'nur? Ffs this rose more questions than it answered.
@@Tommy-bu7rf well I believe know maker is directly capable of disobeying her they do have a certain amount of free will. To me that seems to imply that unless she actively orders something to be done or not done they are still capable of doing it so the Serafin was able to do this simply out of the fact that he wasn't ordered not to. At least this is my interpretation of the lore.
I knew Doom Eternal was a Christian game
So Samuel Hayden gonna be big bad guy for last game? He’s literally bathing in the power of the crucible while Doomguy is downstairs in the Ripatorium.
I don't think so. It might the big daddy the devil himself
@@sleepylad9829 or vega, since he now knows he's the father, aka god
Still possible since he said he's not the villain in 2016.
There's information to suggest a dark magician who is actually more powerful than the slayer himself and is his only real match. It could be refering to either the dark lord or another entity. However that'll probably be the last ever boss in my opinion
TechyMarines Yeah. But by the time the last game releases I will have waited like 8-10 years to punch Hayden‘s brains out. I need this. And why the fuck not? There’s nothing more unsatisfying than to pull a totally unrelated big baddy out of nowhere for your last entry. They’ll do something with him I swear.
The Dark Lord? Is he a Lucifer/Satan like character? If that’s the case, just imagine a battle between him and the Slayer. That would be incredible. 🙌🏻🙌🏻
Samuel Hayden, Sayden, SATAN?!?
The Marauder nah, Samuel Hayden is already Samur Maykr, I doubt they’d make him 3 characters, I know it’s a joke, but just saying, cuz I too really want to know more about the “satan” of doom lore
There are 6 demon gods of Hell, one of which is the ultimate evil, apparently a being that is Hell itself
@@omarxtyson1448 well heaven is hardly holy in DOOM, so it is possible Satan isn't evil. still though "Lucifer, The Light-bringer, the fallen Angel"... or the fallen Maykr?
Samur... sorry, Samuel, "brought light" to humanity with argent energy. it is litterally in the codex for Doom 2016 that he flipped a huge switch to transmit the first argent power to earth, later being said "they knew who kept the *lights* on."
Samuel hayden may very well be Samur, may very well be the equivalent of Satan, but in the Doom Universe Satan may not be the lord of hell. sort of like DnD. Asmodeus is the Devil, lawful evil, but is not lord of Demons, whom are chaotic evil.
Nivaldo Monte where did you get that info?
Well Hayden did connect to the Mainframe, so he probably had access to the slayers history files.
that can be true. but in that case, why/how slayer has so much data about a place that only accesible to maykr angels?
sadfdfd aasfasf Cause he‘s a smart ass. Idk, doesn’t make sense so far. Samuel is in the game as a guide and to show that even the best of humanity can’t stand up to the Slayer
Well it would have a bunch of Sentinel files as the game more or less implys that it was made by the Maykers for the Sentinels. But I still don't think they would have as much information as Hayden does. There's too many similarities between Samar Mayker and Samael Hayden to not connect them together.
Maybe. Narratively I think it is trying to him at the points in this video.
Dood I absolutely love your longer videos! These always make my day, and these doom lore videos have been amazing, the video about what happened between the games was epic af
Or I guess I meant the origins of the doom guy.... but kinda same thing
Also, how would Hayden know to call the energy Argent?
Bring the damn DLC please, iD software, after this video can't take anymore
Relax man the game hasnt even been out for a week yet.
The game didn't come out that long ago. We have to wait.
Patience young padawan.
16:23 or, and hear me out, its just a default voice comm that triggers if anyone (including the seraphim) enters that door; It was expecting the seraphim, not the Doom Slayer.
Another great video Acid. Wow I never heard about the the prophecy of the crucible back in 2016 with the tree. Also will you do a lore video on the Sentinels?
So father allegedly found out how to fracture his being to form the Maykrs. What if Samur, being renegade, found out how to fracture his mind and wants to be an individual... part went into Hayden (his personality) and part into Vega (logic, conscience, father) so he is everywhere, always. No one can use a divinity machine behind his back. Urdak didnt see the slayer as the seraphim but Vega
I was thinking about the crucible and then when I saw your video I click it and watch it,thank you uploading this video
I don't think Hayden is the same person as the Seraph, Hayden doesn't seem like he is aware of future events in 2016 and the lore mentions him being human at several points.
What I think however, is that he had direct contact with the Seraph, who gave him the technology he needed to survive his cancer and start the chain of events that would eventually wake the doomslayer. It is likely that Hayden is simply mimicking the Seraph's words when giving the slayer the argent energy sphere, as the Seraph probably said the same to him when giving the technology and information before Doom 2016.
Its interesting to note that nothing but his brain remains of his original body, so its possible the voice we hear coming from Hayden is actually the Seraph's and not his actual voice.
It all makes sense now,,, the tree prophecy related to Samur all along.
I like to think Samuel is just a really big fanboy of Doomguy.
I haven't beaten the game yet, about to beat the Urdak level and I figured that The Father's essence was what the Seraphim used to enhance Doom Slayer's powers
That's a very good assumption. But then why does Vega say "am i the father?:
If Doom Slayer has the essence in his body.. then shouldn't he be "The father?"
There's still alot of holes in the story that need answers. Maybe in time or in future dlc.
I still want to know what happen to the slayer in between 2016 and the game now
DLC will answer hopefully. Granted I also want to see something about the Slayer's time with the Sentinels before the fall. My DLC wishlist for 3 DLC would be:
-Slayer between 2016 and Eternal
-Slayer before 2016 and the fall of Argent D'Nur
-Hayden and humans on Earth between 2016 and Eternal
It would be good stuff to fill in. Maybe even get a spinoff game that's more survival horror focused where there's a group of survivors gradually dying off while the demons take hold
I cares about the prophecy curious who is the dark lord help expand the universe from Doom
I don't think that Seraphim and Samuel Hayden are the same guy, mainly based on how Doom 2016 ended. If the Seraphim is Samuel Hayden, why didn't he just sent the Doom Slayer to his fortress or to Nekroval? the Doom Slayer already had the BFG and the Crucible, along with his huge arsenal, Samuel could've used the Crucible to send the Doom Slayer to Nekroval and end it all, yet he just sent him to an unknown location so he could keep working on the Crucible and produce Argent Energy. I think that there is some connections between them, as both the robotic body of Samuel Hayden is of Maykr's design and he also posses too much knowledge about Urdak, but it had to start some time after Doom 2016 or in its late stages as Samuel Hayden dangered the all of existence when he sent the Doom Slayer away so he could keep doing his work.
Man there's a lot of connections about samuel and the seraphim, if he's was in hiding all this time that would be a sick reveal. one thing I still don't know is how doom guy from doom 64 came out of hell and got himself to argent d'nur? is that something we know? I get the feeling there is going to be a dlc campaign that goes into it further.
I'm actually the only person who explained how he got out of hell in Doom 64. Alot of other channels don't even know or they skip that. I explained exactly how he got out in the previous video. And how the other games are connected to Doom 2016.
AcidGlow I just saw your video, that’s an awesome catch man and your videos are 10/10! What are your thoughts on id sticking with that narrative? Do you think they will implement a dlc campaign that directly addresses it or leave it as is?
@@boogie7441 They don't need a DLC to explain it as the information I found is the answer. I'd rather get more answers to the Seraphim, Vega, the Father, The Crucible Prophecy
Hayden is a HUMAN. He had cancer and needed to transfer his brain to that machine body. He couldn't be a Makyr, unless we throw out his history in DOOM 2016.
Hayden probably met with the Seraph at some point during his expeditions into Hell and gained much of his knowledge from him.
What do we know: Samur steals the fathers essence before the Kahn strikes the deal with dark lord to syphon argent to heaven. In fact, it might have been the cause for her to decide it was necessary to syphom the energy.
Did Samur forsee the corruption in the Kahn or did Samur create the corruption in the Kahn bu taking the essence? Also, if the father has incalcuable power, what does Samur think of the father if he did not agree with the Kahn as the appropriate leader?
The Seraphim is the reason the Makyrs had to form a pact with Hell to begin with.
He stole the essence of The Father and disrupted The Transfiguration, sending the desperate Makyrs into a panic trying to find another way to prolong their race.
Things directly caused by his actions:
The Father disappears.
The Tranfiguration is disrupted.
The Pact with Hell is made.
Argent Energy brought into existence.
The Doomslayer is given Godly powers.
Civil War breaks out among the Argenta.
Argent D'Nur falls
The Wraiths are taken and used to bolster the Argent refining process.
All of this leading the events of DOOM 2016 and DOOM Eternal.
He set it ALL in motion.
Perhaps Samuel and Samur share a similar connection to what MCPO John-117 and Bornstellar Makes Eternal Lasting have in Halo
You missed VEGA telling Hayden that he sees now that he is the Father. Samuel Hayden is not Samuel Hayden when he ventured into Argent Dnur he was replaced by the Seraphim who is Super pissed at the Khan Makyrs. When he came back he built VEGA he knew VEGA was the Father Khan and subjegated him. Two things from post Eternal. Either VEGA is the ultimate evil who we left in Taj Nebad. Or Hayden is Lucifer. Both are epic and mind blowing.
I think Samuel's replacement occured when he "supposedly" turned himself into a Cyborg. The real Samuel perhaps died from cancer and wasn't actually successful in transferring his consciousness to the cybernetic body, while the Seraphim took over his identity under the pretense that the operation was successful.
An alternative is that Samuel and the Seraphim were fused into a singular consciousness during the procedure. This could explain why Samuel is still concerned about providing energy to earth, getting angry when the Slayer destroyed the Argent filters, and why he led the ARC to save Earth from the demons.
@@CoryMcCarvilleSchueths
The fact the Slayer left VEGA behind is very curious. He played the Khan Makyr by having the crucible. The Slayer is smart and I think he left VEGA out of the fortress of Doom for a reason. Hayden knows way more than he should even with access to the corrax tablets. The Slayer turned control of his home base to Hayden? I think not there was a calculated reason for his actions. I was pissed leaving VEGA behind I kept waiting for Slayer to go back for him. This also is the 2nd time Hayden try to kill or abandon VEGA. Both in 2016 and Eternal it was Haydens idea to mess up VEGA for a mission objective.
we might get the answer in the dlc or wait for a few years until the next doom game
doom slayer vs dark lord :D
So the Icon can come back if some certain cultist remove the blade in its brain.
Yeah I got to see Samuel in the mysterious figure in the hood be the same person but yeah the dark lord but he's one of the demon elder god they tell you in the text of the game I'd learn more
Could there be a Lucifer type creature in this, maybe we have a Mayker or Former Kahn Mayker who fell and took the Crucible with him to hell.
this could have been avoided with different leader ship
It's not calling the slayer seraphim, it's calling vega seraphim. Because vega's voiceline say "Am I the father?" Which the fathers name is Seraphim if I'm correct. So the slayer quite literally wouldn't be able to end this journey without vega
And also we leave vega behind, and if he's the father then reproduction on urdak can continue. Because the Khan maykr was only khan for millennia because the father was gone. But now, the father might be back.
also man born sounds like a machine
Any idea in whos that giant makyr body there in urdak inside a flooded room? The game dont mention it, if it does i missed.
Would be nice if u make a video a about it
There's nothing mentioned in any Lore codex.. nothing. It's just.. there.. for us to speculate.
@@AcidGlow yee as i tought, any theorys yet?
WOOOOW mind blown
In my opinion it should not be that hard to connect the dots.
In thr cutscene they made it specific to let you know that it was samuel was the seraphim when he said "now they will fear only you".
Literally pulling his hands out of the robes. Showing you Samuels arms.
This scene was made to imply that Samuels been with you all along. Perhaps trying to remove the Kahn maykr from power.
Holy shit guys, the seraphim and samuel Hayden aren't the same person
Perhaps Vega and Samuel are two parts of the Father. The Seraphim is the Father, and vice versa.
The is only one explanation to this
Time Travel!
So, is VEGA dead now?? After he got left behind on Urdak?
What about the text on both the slayer and demonic crucibles, does anyone know what it reads?
I've always wondered about the text on everything. There's no way to translate it. We just have to wait the information to be released by the devs in some way.
So the crucible is a demonic blade ? And the doom Slayer sword/blade is also made up of the demonic blade but with sentinel technology? Not raw flesh?
Alex A thanks for the answer!
But who is Dr. Hayden? A cyborg? An enlightened A.I.? A former human now robot?
Former human now robot because his human body was dying. We see pictures of him as a human in 2016
While I see that he is the Seraphim but like why is he a jerk and why did he betray us and try to get Argent, why does he seemingly not remember or if he does why is he playing this part of being the bad guy
Maybe to rule over everything. And these steps he took are what he needs to get there. Eliminate the Maykrs and the Demons, Acquire the Crucible to become even more powerful than the slayer. I'm just guessing here. Samuel even said "these events could have been avoided under new management". So it seems he wants to take over.
so Dr Hayden planed this from the start?
So if Hayden is the Seraphim and Vega is the father and the prophesy is for Hayden to become the Dark Priest, then the real Armageddon will happen for humanity and demons though it was the Khan Maykers fault...Gosh Doom Guy should not have destroyed the surface of Mars lol 😂
Yeah, if the Prophesy is referring to Hayden than it seems like Hayden/The Seraphim is DOOMs version of Antichrist, and instead of merely instigating Armageddon on Earth he will instigate it across ALL Dimensions. Urdak, the Mortal Universe and even Hell itself.
What if VEGA & The Doom Slayer are connected in a way? What if part of The Father is inside of Doom Slayer and another part of it is inside of VEGA? ^^
Also: The Crucible seemed to absorb the energy from the Elemental Wraiths the Doom Slayer liberated in DOOM 2016.
Doom has one of my favorite lores in video games, hearing legends about Doomguy and the history about certain weapons is fascinating to me
And people have the nerve to bitch about the lore.
Wassup
I feel the same way👌
Its somehow so detailed and yet so sparse at the same time. The devs and storywriters obviously poured over the details to the enth degree, and produced an amazing lore.
Yet you could play the whole game and miss 99% of it.
Its the amazing subtlety, that gives it such depth.
Another thing, we know that the consciousness of a Khan isn't born into it. The body is created first and then the collective consciousness of Urdak is transferred into this body. This implies that the Maykr have the ability to move the soul from one medium to another, from digital, to a living form. This makes sense, as Hayden has done something similar. Most of his brain is gone, only the bits needed for emotional processing are there, with all of his actual memories and logic circuits being replaced with a digital matrix. So there is every possibility that the Hayden we see in 2016, isn't actually the original human. At the time of his operation to become a cyborg, the man was already over 100 years old. He could be a clone, created by Samur and had his consciousness transferred from his Maykr body, to this human body.
The Makyrs got everything together to create a new Khan now. You find the new body that should have replaced the old Khan Makyr. All that was missing is Vega
Remember when it was just about killin demons and saving the world?
Thunder Noriety - all it is is a floaty monster in Mountain Dew and a codex entry, you can totally ignore it and be fine.
Why should Samur as haiden harvest argent energy and lose hell for the events of Doom 2016 while beeing so anti hell and anti maykr and pro Slayer in the Flashbacks?
@@brosiii2558 My Personal Theory: Samur/Samuel knew that the Makyrs would keep on harvesting the Souls of Innocent for Energy Production. So he set up Camp on Earth/Mars to create his own hell Portal. He needed funding so he promised Argent Energy and got the Money to build the Base. But his real intend was, to get Doom Slayer Back out of Hell, his only Weapon against the Makyr and their inevitabel Invasion on Humanity.
I don’t know if this would help but do you think that the Makyr corpse under the water in Urdak could hold any importance. Because looks to be about twice the size of the Khan Makyr.
it might be a khan maykr birthing chamber, it seems that it's not given life yet because the khan maykr was still alive, though it birthing somewhat after would make sense
that wasn't a Makyr, I believe it was a Wraith.
Shadkunt it definitely wasn’t a wraith. If you compare it to the Khan makyr without her armour during the fight you can see that they are almost identical, aside from the size difference
However there are some small differences, such as the creature having horns, whereas the khan makyr and all other makyrs have none, possibly being a result of demonic corruption of the creature, which seems reasonable due to the close relationship between the makyrs and hell.
@@shadkunt9387 it had the same anatomy as a maykr
I see many people say that one voice actor voicing two characters doesn’t have much significance because it happens all the time. But generally when this happens those 2 characters don’t sound alike. But as for Samuel and the seraphim, they sound pretty similar as well as using almost identical lines.
And we know that The Seraphim's name is Samur, which is way to close to Samuel to be a coincidence. Plus we know that The Seraphim stole The Father, and when VEGA is inserted into Urdak he asks "Am I the father, Dr. Hayden?". Why would Samuel have The Father with him? Everything lines up to Samuel Hayden being The Seraphim.
It explains ALOT about Hayden and his really vast knowledge.
Robert Wiech we can assume that he teleported doom slayer to the fortress of doom or perhaps to a realm that the fortress in. It doesn’t look that fast so it would make sense it would take awhile to get to earth.
Also games that have people playing multiple characters tend to be low budget games that have 3 or 4 actors so they each voice 3 or 4 characters. Doom is a big budget game and since there's only two actors that play 2 characters you can't help but think there's a connection there.
hmmm... that explain why samuel hayden knows so many things.
johannz aquino and why he revered to humanity as “your people” rather than “our people” before going to Urdak
Truly, an amazing video. I was so focused on Doomguy's own lore this whole time I missed out some aspects being revealed about Samuel and Vega, but the 'gift' and 'father' lines did raise an eyebrow when I first heard them. I like this theory, and explains how Samuel knows things about Urdak, even his line about 'things could've been avoided had the angels had better leadership (VEGA/Father :O).
The Seraph that Helped the Doomguy to *become* the Doomslayer was Samuel Hayden - both characters have the same voice as well as the same quotes. Along with the Hayden mentions all of the corrupted debuchery that the Khan Makyr has commited would be much much more different ''under a New management''
Hayden also introduced the doomguy his first dosage of 'purified' argent energy that made him a super - meta human
Bruh this is so dumb
The seraphim is obviously makyr kind
He has the same body type as the makyr drones
Samuel was a human that transferred his head to a robot
@@Pyromaster-jn1ys Not nearly as dumb as the people whose biasedly ignorant against almost open and direct connection between these two. The Makyr technology would have easily allowed Samur (yes; even the names match) makyr to blend in with humans with a realistic technology like a solid hologram; until it can permanently shift its body
I was just about to mention that line that Hayden says in Nekravol about "different leadership" but then I saw you did it first. I'm not sure if he just missed it or didn't think it was important enough for the video.
@@markomaksimovic7678 it is open that -Samur Makyr- Samuel Hayden knew much more about the Makyr/Seraphim order as well as the harvesting of innocent tortured souls for creating Argent Energy
Samuel has been a human the entire time, he's recognized by the people of earth. He only transferred his mind to a robot to continue living because his human body had cancer, he's a smart man and has lead many expeditions through hell, have you not seen the artifacts? Of course he knows about the makyr kind
It's technically the Demonic Crucible because the Doom Slayer has his own Crucible
Yeah, but it’s like...THE crucible. It’s a sword loaded with gods.
herne derjaeger doomsayer is easily stronger than said gods and able to murder them
So whatever crucible doom slayer made Is automatically more fearsome
@@seeknprotect6179 no it's not THE crucible it THE DEMONIC crucible
HaloDieHard I don’t care if it’s demonic or not if it’s loaded with nukes.
Hayden is also clearly urging the Slayer along through the last missions of Doom Eternal, clearly trying to stoke the slayer’s rage and instinctive actions so he did not think about anything he was about to do. He needed to make sure the Khan Maykr was destroyed for “New Leadership” to take over...
Chris Palmer new leadership meaning the Father. Bear in mind in the events of doom and Eternal, the father was still missing until the Slayer brought him; VEGA, back.
well, the Slayer wasn't looking to kill her that badly. He was gunning for the Icon, she merely tried to stop him. had he wanted, he could have fought her right off instead of interrupting the ritual.
@@MFenix206 If anything at that moment he went for the Heart of the Betrayers son due to the promise made earlier to lay him to rest, he could have fought the Khan right there, but likely wouldnt been able to put the son of the Betrayer, and thereby him to rest.
And in order to do that he first needed to remove Father from Urdok. This is clearly a plan he's been working on.
There is one hurdle for Samuel and Samur to be one and the same person and that is that Samuel Hayden was without doubt born human. We see his pictures in Doom 2016 and learn that he was sick of cancer, having parts of his brain transferred to his cybernetic body.
Maybe the only solution to this problem could be that The Seraphim met Dr. Hayden at some point and offered him Maykr technology to save his life, infusing him with part of his essence, making him more similar to the slayer than we thought? That could explain why he also survived his excursions to hell.
Personally I think all this will be answered in the DLCs within a year and the only thing we can do meanwhile is hypothesize. Great video BTW!
I mean , it is not hard for a Seraphim to pass as human , while coming up with a lie that he has cancer...
Why did Urdak automated systems recognize the Slayer as the Seraphim then? I certainly hope the Seraphim didn't split himself in two or something, that would be simply a dumb plot.
Samuel Hayden definitely had otherworldly contacts, but I think he communicated/infused with The Father.
@@executor31 the makyrs have much larger brains and tentacles in stead of legs. I dont think the seraphim could have put his brain in samuel's body. Maybe he uploaded his consensus to a computer. Samuel hayden tried to do the same but he still has parts of his organic brain left in him. Besides, the timeline is way to unclear with the kahn makyr talking about their tradition being around for millennia but the slayer was alive at that point.
rodylermglez Maybe when he was exiled out of Urudak by the Khan Makyr, he might’ve been reincarnated as a baby and had buried or done something to the essence of The Father so that only he was able to find it when he was old enough? And then, he actually developed cancer and decided to recreate the technology the Makyrs had and bam, we get Sámuel Hayden.
It is quite possible that Samuel Hayden met the Seraphim considering that he dumps a lot of convenient exposition.
*What was your favorite Lore topic in this video?* ✅🙂
Last Video ua-cam.com/video/vepBNAoTe7c/v-deo.html
During my first playthrough, I remember being really confused as to why/how Samuel knew as much as he did. I tried to reason that his knowledge came from extensive study of artefacts and corrax tablets during his time on Mars, but then it turned out that he knew of details regarding Urdak as well, something that threw me off. At first I passed it off as lazy writing - that the developers were trying to give players context (for those who didn't bother to read the codex) but something kept nagging at me that there was more to the whole story.
That is until I came across this theory online, and this video serves as the best explanation for said theory so far. I am 99% sold that Samuel Hayden is Samur Makyr in some form, based off the evidence provided and how much it would make sense regarding what we have seen through flashbacks and told via the codex.
Yeah way too many similarities between them for them not to be connected
The only thing that throws me off is when you get to taras nabad he mentions reading information off a "cordex" (or something) about the birth of the slayer.
Could just be a little misdirection, or I'm looking too far into things, but we'll see I guess
Another possible part of the procephy:
Before the final boss fight in Doom eternal
Hayden says: "Now is the time. Two titans meet, as it was written"
Looks like the procephy is kinda long honestly
PD: AM I the only one that doom's plot is improvised like 60% or something to leave space for sequels?
The way I saw it, the Makyr facility voice called the slayer "Seraphim" because Samuel Hayden was in his suit with him.
Exactly what I thought.
:v well that maybe true, but Vega was their too, it would be better if the facility say "welcome Father"
@@ngockien2080 well yeah, but remember, Vega was only in a flashdrive or someshit right? and since vega only knew of what he truly is when he was plugged in on the makyr device, maybe the facility didn't know who or what he was on that moment.
@@justthatrandomdude5793 :v but samuel too just in the suit, you know. VEGA did not know he is father not mean the facility could not recognize him :v
@@ngockien2080 VEGA wasn't turned on until he was plugged in into the Makyr's device though. That's why through that segmenr you can only hear samuel talking to the DoomSlayer.
I kind of figured that the Doomslayer was blessed with a portion or all of the Father that's why he's so powerful, also I thought Samuel was a human with some terminal disease that's why he became a cyborg, so many new questions now thank you for making this and to everyone who see's this stay safe and do whatever you can to be happy during this time.
Apparently, reincarnation is a thing in the doom universe as souls seem to not be bound to one body in particular and can switch hosts. From my understanding the Seraphim was a Maykr who gave the Doom Slayer an immense power boost and then stole the "essence of the father" which is a part of a god like figure for the Maykr and possibly the God of the doomverse. The Seraphim seems to have been punished by having his soul reincarnated into a mortal's body but he seems to have kept or regained his consciousness from his previous life and managed to become director of the UAC after which he studied Argent Energy and brought back the Slayer upon the impending demonic invasion. Vega seems to be this "essence of the father" recovered by Samuel Hayden through obscure means and upon being reintroduced into Urdak seems to have reunited with "the Father". So yeah, Samuel Hayden and the Seraphim are most likely the same person. However the reasons why the Seraphim/Samuel Hayden did all of this remain obscure... I have a theory , though, that Samuel Hayden/Seraphim is actually trying to find a way to rule Hell, so as to be able to continue extracting argent energy by extracting the souls of the sinners aka those who lived wicked lives like criminals, rapists or etc... And effectively becoming a Satan like figure.
The demonic crucible might be the dark lord/satan's weapon. Why they give it to the Maykr? Maybe it was in the term of their deal, that's why one of the maykr used to own it.
Samuel also said the the whole turning the human souls into energy would never have happened under different leadership.
Was he refering to himself maybe?
Awesome video! The lore of Urdak and Samur Maykr is veryy interesting I’d love to see how that story continues.. do you believe the DLCs will be prequels? Explaining where The Slayer went in the end of 2016? Or will it be a continuation of Eternals ending?
I think it would be a prequel. They'll probably make a sequel to Eternal. There's lots to explore
I'm mad that they made all this interesting lore and now I'm probably going to have to wait for another doom game where they explain who the mysterious voice is that roared "Noooooooooo!"
Damn you ID...making good games n shit. 👿
Don't worry, their making dlc. But because of the pandemic it will prob delayed
I noticed something, when you kill the Makyr there is a mysterious voice that is heard shouting no. if you look into the cast in the ending credits,there is no one cast as "the mysterious voice" but there is someone cast as "The Dark lord" and since we didn't overhear any other unknown voices and every cast member displayed had a known character, i think its safe to say that the mysterious voice is the dark lord.
Check this out, Samuel Hayden is an anagram for Samael Haydes as in the Archangel Samael aka Lucifer & well Haydes is Hell...
Me: *Watching this video in the dark*
Video: 8:50
Me: ....
Was reading the comments and found yours. i was on 8:45 then, and was watching in the dark. Holy fock i almost peed my pants when i heard it
I believe this could be some form of time loop. Doom slayer brings hayden and vega to urdak, vega is the father, so he makes a body for Hayden, thus making the seraphim, being a god, he probably used that universe to create himself, which is why the seraphim was connected to the doom slayer. The birth of the true god and the glue that binds it all is doomguy
Remember, we are getting 2 campaign dlcs for Eternal.
It's very possible that the things that transpired will be concluded and maybe even learn more about the prophecy of the Crucible.
Who's to say that Samuel Hayden was really just a man who had cancer. What if after giving the slayer powers he went into hiding which over the centuries ended with him transferring bodies at some point and being Samuel Hayden
Something I noticed when the seraphim flashback came in. Is the old imp fireball and bfg sfx in the background, as there was a war at the moment the seraphim gave the slayer power. Also right after the flashback ends you can hear the slayer say "father help me".
I believe the voice that screamed no was the network of the Kahn singularity
Maybe the saraphim taught Samuel Hayden how to keep or resurrect the father (Vega Makyr)
It was prob the dark lord/ the nameless one. Basically Satan
Don't forget that Vega is actually the name of the Northern star in astronomy, the brightest star in the sky with biblical and heavenly implications in history.
Dude I like coming back to these videos when these questions are answered. You got a lot of these guesses and assumptions correctly.
Hey doomheads, another topic I would like to solve. Why did Seraphin evolved into this devilish creature?
What if after doom 64 the slayer was sent back in time and Doom 2016 is the same events as the original Doom?
Maybe the developers want us to think it was the dark lord when really it was the father when he finally gain control over Vega in urdak and screamed noooo after the holy seal was broken since remember after she dies her orb thing went to the sky and turned it red which means the holy seal was broken
We need to know the chronological order of these events. If Seraphim betrays Urdak first and hence cast out which would then lead to Khan Makyr making a deal with dark lord OR
did Seraphim betray Urdak after Khan makyr made a deal with Dark Lord. The order dictates whether Seraphim will be an ally or an villain in next Doom if and when that happens.
Seraphim aka Samuel says this could have all been under different leadership, so this means if he wants to rule Urdak instead of Khan Makyr which is similar to Devil of Christian lore making the Seraphim as a villain.
Don't forget Samuel can also wield the Crucible which only the Kings of Sentinels should be able to do.
As now Samuel body is now powered by Crucible hell energy inside the Fortress of Doom (As a villain, Seraphim would have wanted it to happen), which would make Samuel to become powerful enough to challenge the Doom slayer.
Seraphim steals the essence of father first, which is what causes khan maker to be willing to make literal deals with the devil to preserve their society.
The Makyr need argent energy to sustain themselves since they cannot be reborn without the father.
The Doom 2016 tree prophecy mentions that you wear the "seal of the heretic" and then goes on about the crucible creating a "monster" that even hell fears. Also, I don't think anyone has noticed that the beginning sequence of Doom Eternal you can hear a street preacher saying "For it is he that they fear, not man or his armies. They fear the mark of the beast." Then, in Urdak, the slayer is greeted as being "The Seraphim." I think they are all referring to the seal that's on the slayer's armor.
So if this seal refers to the same being that gave the slayer his power... I think its safe to assume that Samuel Hayden, now soaking in the Crucible energy in the Doom Fortress, will become this monster/beast at some point. (Maybe not because of the Doom Fortress but I digress...) I think most of us are inclined to think this will happen at some point. But my question is to what extent is Samuel Hayden aware of the situation that could occur? Was this his main goal from the beginning to become the beast to lead over all realms? Is it clear yet if the Khan Maykr only struck a deal with Hell to make argent energy to survive since the Father was stolen, or is the deal with Hell the reason why he stole Father to begin with?
Most likely not corrupt samuel but instead corrupt the ship
Maybe the mysteries voice that screams nooonat the at end of maykr boss fight was the father
this is a lotta lore to hear abt so dark and corrupted my god!
Why did the seraphim stole The Father from Urdak in the first place? Because of that, no successor to the Khan makyr would be born again and that was the reason she decieved the people of Argent D'Nur and unleashed hell on earth to collect pure Argent energy for her immortality. None of this would have happened if it wasn't for the Seraphim. Does this mean that the seraphim or dr samuel hayden is the true enemy?!!!
because he wanted to be the leader, and if he could stop the process of wich new leaders are born then he only needs a way to kill the current leader... and he does that by telling the slayer how to kill the khan
Wilfred Xess Wrong the khan had already been trying to keep power and was already fucking over Argent d nur. You got your timeline wrong
Iury Cabeleira He only wanted too cause she was not a good leader and had made a pact with hell to help her stay in power forever
Samuel Hayden > S. Hayden > Sayden > SATAN (pretty obvious bad pun when you pronounce it with his name - and Doom does love punny jokes and references). He is the fallen angel like Lucifer/Satan
Yep. Been saying this since I played 2016 for the first time.
15:21 for starters the seraphim is the highest rank of angel.
This video is on point 1 year later
Ahh, here we are, some quality Doom lore. Love your vids, Carlos!
You kinda sound like vega?
Where are the three exactly?
Excellent video.
I have a theory because for a mayker to be born the father has to be present but vega/ the father is returned by the doomslayer and the doomslayer kills the bad mayker so i think when the slayer killed khan mayker the voice that was screaming is the new mayker Being Born because the father is now present and i think this will be a good guy the doomslayer to stop haiden or a bad guy because the maykers have the memorie of past maykers so it nows What the slayer has done and is either trying to kill the slayer or is going to try and revive the icon of sin with the crucible but this is just a theory......... a doom theory
can you punctuate?
English is not my first langauts...... i know i spelled that wrong. Wat i am trying to say is i am not used to speaking or typing english. So i dont realy know what that last word i. So i am qeussing what that last word means and i think it means that you whant me to put dots in my theory and just for that i put dots in this text. But if it means anything els just tell me what it means.
@@minkbink5656 oh lol. "Punctuation" is periods, question marks, commas and those things.
14:58 In Doom 2016 Advanced Research Complex level, the room with the hologram of Samuel and Olivia arguing, there is an advertisement stand depicting Samuel's model as UAC service robot. Tho the rest of the game gives the impression that his robot body is unique.
I Have a THEORY that i hope can add to yours:
I guess Hayden is in the rouge seraph and Vega is his creator: Doom has some references from the Bible: Lazarus Lab - Lazarus was the one who was revived by Jesus nothing new here.
But it came to my mind that Hayden's first name is SAMUEL. the following is from Wikipedia (...)According to the Holman Bible Dictionary, Samuel was a "personal name in the Ancient Near East meaning, 'Sumu is God' but understood in Israel as 'The name is God,' 'God is exalted,' or 'SON OF GOD.'(...).
In the Bible he is a Prophet that played a key role in the transition from the Judge period to the Institution of a kingdom. Much like the Rogue Seraph when he created the SLAYER. This requires more studying but, there are some interesting things here. Also there is a mention that hes is the King-Maker.
In the holy trinity there is Father (God - VEGA - Entity creator of the Maykrs), SON (Samuel, son of GOD) and Holy Spirit ( DOOM GUY ), but wait, looking into more i found this description of the Holy Spirit
"who intercedes, or supports or acts as an advocate, particularly in times of trial. And he acts to convince the unredeemed person both of the sinfulness of their actions, and of their moral standing as sinners before God."
well, that was a fun research for me, never imagined that being from a Christian family would lead me into this kind of theory craft. I hope you like it!
UAC caused a rift between heaven and hell. Hayden stolen the Urdak (heaven) Father to create himself and VEGA, so most angels (makyrs) made a pact with hell to survive creating an unholy union. Doom Slayer is here to right the wrongs of mankind and sever the rift the UAC created. Argent D'Nurs are humans like us and fought both but defeated due to Betrayer. Hayden is evil. Seraphim is good. Duality. Doom guy is neutral only to stop the alliance between the two and reset the balance of power.
As for VEGA being the father, I doubt it, Hayden would not have been willing to sacrifice the AI during the Argent crisis on Mars (he had no idea the Doom Slayer had saved him) or leave him behind on Urdak if he had some divinity to him, not to mention it is not the original VEGA we are talking about, simply a backup the Slayer created to save his personality. Worth noting however that V.E.G.A. stands for something that Samuel never revealed to anyone, but so far it seems like he is pretty expendable.
As for Samuel and Samur being one and the same, evidence seems pretty overwhelming, the one that got me was that one of the codex mentions that only someone special can activate the crucible the same way Hayden did at the end to 2016. Something that we have not even seen the Slayer do with the demonic crucible.
Now for the part where the slayer is refferred as a seraphim, I think you mentioned in another video some deleted voice files where Hayden tells the slayer he was going to imprint him with special Makyr genetic makeup so he can access Urdak.
Here is what I think happened to the Father's conciosness:
But first ask yourselves these questions:
Who let the UAC back to Mars using Argent energy as the lure?
Who found the Argent fracture?
Who recruited Olivia Pierce?
Who insisted on retrieving the Doom guy, even knowing the threat he posed to the Argent operation?
Now that you answered that question, let me take you through a quick recap:
Samur was simply a makyr attendant, maybe he just want to rise through to the top rank, sees the slayer defeat the titan in Taras Nabad, sees the potential, and takes him to the divinity machine, he makes the slayer inmortal then goes underground as the Doom guy goes to war with the Khan Makyr, but then everything goes south. The Night Sentinals are betrayed and slaughtered nd the Doom Slayer is captured.
Samur, posibly already hiding on earth, decides to emerge as Hayden, knowing already the Slayers location but needing to remain in the shadows, begins a complex operation where he mask as a greedy energy tycoon, always looking for better earnings in weapons research and other ventures, takes the UAC back to Mars, "discovers" the Argent fracture, recruits one of the priest own moles and gives her access to the fracture, being certain that she would find the coordinates within the Kadingir Sanctum, all Samuel had to do was just wait for her to find them, claim that he found out she discovered an unknown asset without needing to explain how, then send in a team to retrieve his true target all along. Wether he meant Olivia to panick and start an invasion that would overrun the Mars facility is unknown. But this way he would have been able to rescue the slayer without alerting the makyrs that he was the betrayer.
But why?, the Doom guy is powerful but his unwillingness to cooperate makes him a poor asset, unless he had something special, what if, the divinity machine transfered the fathers essence into the slayer, it would explained the mayor lenghts Hayden went through, and everything he was willing to loose to retrieve him.
Crazy theory,are they setting up the Serpent Riders??!!! The villains from raven softwares Heretic/Hexen series!!!! Activision still owns the rights,but maybe Bethesda bought it,and will connect the series,think about it,doom getting all this Medieval backstory??? I can only hope
Really... like really men, some of us are watching this at night. You didn't have to play their voice audios🗣😬😓😓😓😓😡
Is VEGA The Father?
It says some one took the Father entity away from the Maykr beings.
That Seraphin could be Dr. Haiden and he tooks that "Father" made of logical entity. And put it on the Mars facility for helping him with his plans. Seraphin, Hayden, will still waiting for take a chance of being corrupted again, to hia natural form, getting strenght, not even Doom Slayer could face his power. Maybe all of this has been prepared for the same Samuel, from the beginning. To destroy his powerfull enemies Maykrs and uses Slayer as his weapon. Once all kindgom are done. He will rule over them and destroy them. Doom etermal for sure will have a continuation. Next chapter will be anounced this holydays or something. Doom eternal is selling too much. The history is opened yet. And bethesda cannot loses the opportunity of making more.money and finishing that story. Fans will agree with it. And.. why not. Would be for the "Next gen".
All fits.
Well Carlos, i love the way you try to understand all of this incredible story, and share with us things, by helping us to understand somethings.
I appreciate ur work. Thanks for all. Stay safe =)
Welp in the statement on Doom 2016 in Kadingir Sanctum tree like object is what would be the outcome.
-Doomguy relentlessly ravage all demons as it stated on the first statement and here he was found by the Sentinel injured and been promoted to the highest official.
-After he awake on Doom 2016, he defeated Olivia or the Mastermind and been betrayed by Samuel but why he would betray him if such AI or VEGA attach to a killing machine and betray him.
-In Doom Eternal there we saw Icon of Sin and the Maykr which reveal that the Maykr intentions were to destroy the Humanity and create a infinite sourceof Argent to their souls but that was not the question..... The question is why such anger driven Doomslayer would help Samuel Hayden even if he betray him once?
-Lastly the Crucible could crush Demon kin and man-born but not Wraiths and wraiths in Doom 2016 state that their form is look like a scary "Beast".
In short:
The Seraphim is the only Maykr who seems to be uncorrupted and give the powers to the Doomslayer and been gone for good without traces after that. Then Doomslayer ravage hell after the fall of Argent D'Nur and been trapped by the Hell priest. Then after he woke up he kill Olivia and betrayed by Samuel Hayden by tooking the Crucible and teleport him to unknown place with VEGA. When he teleported to the Fortress of Doom he kill all of the Hell priest and finish the corruption of the Maykr or Fallen Angels as they live in Argent Energies or Demonic Energies by the help of Samuel Hayden with no hesitation due to the betrayal in Doom 2016. Lastly what happened to the Wraiths? As it state in the prophecy that the Crucible could punish man-born and demon kin alike? But Wraiths is describe as the Beasts?