If you haven't seen it, check out our doco on 77 Squadron in the Korean war ua-cam.com/video/yokzRngvs6o/v-deo.html when the Australians didn't have the Sabre but Mustangs and then Meteors - going from kings of the sky to completely outclassed by the MiG-15.
One of the most incredible episodes in the Avon Sabre's history occurred in November 1984 at the Bendigo Airshow. PM Bob Hawke was watching (it was the 1984 election campaign) while the last operational Sabre was doing an energetic aerobatic display and promptly flamed out. The pilot opted to save the aircraft by performing a dead-stick landing on the short 1200m runway and managed to pull it up in the mud just short of the boundary fence. Lucky we had a wet spring that year!
I flew the Avon Sabre for two years before transitioning to the Mirage. It had 30mm Aden cannon and sidewinder 1/R missiles. Book figures time to 35,000 feet was six minutes but had only a 6G limit and at 600kts IAS was subject to roll reversal. Mcrit was M.94 and could go supersonic in a dive. 50% more thrust made it the best high altitude subsonic fighter of it's generation.
um so they are giving themselves paycheques to assemble a subsonic hobby plane as Australia's hottest aircraft when the USA is flying Mach 2 combat aircraft. Not as bad as the Boomerang.
Cool info! Thanks for contributing. As far as I can tell It’s seems almost no pilot ever got to fly CAC Sabre and US version , or if they did no comparison ever got published. ( or even more interesting to compare the Avon Sabre to the orenda Sabre Canadian version)
When I worked at Richmond I worked in the hangar where the sabre was housed that was still flying in the early 90s. The pilot was a guy by the name of Phil Frawley, who only retired from the air force a few years ago as the oldest fighter pilot in the world. It was always amazing to see him come fly the sabre and put on a bit of a show, the whole base would come watch
Always thought the Sabre was the most beautiful jet ever made, small, nimble and such clean lines. The GREATEST Jet combat movie ever made was "The Hunters" with Robert Mitchum. Never knew this about the Australian Sabre and very pleasantly surprised by how much they improved on the base design. Good on ya, Mate.
my father was part of the RAAF team that trained the Malaysian Aiirforce to maintain the Sabres, RAAF base Butterworth, 1969 to 1972. such a beautiful iconic aircraft.
IN 1983 15 year old me was doing work experience with the RAAF as an airframe fitter on C130 Hercules at Richmond AFB. In that hanger was the RAAF Top Hat F-86 Sabre A94-983. I got to sit in the cockpit of this incredible aircraft. The next day it was to do a practice flight display for an upcoming airshow. I was so excited. I watched as a 2 seat Mirage III landed, delivered the pilot and departed. Wow. Later that morning the Sabre was airborne, and I saw a great display with many other RAAF personnel. Unfortunately it burst a tyre on landing and closed the runway and I had to go home. Great memories but the pictures on the wall in the lunch room. Id never seen a Vag and then I saw 100s
Funny how every version was "the best". One way to determine which was the best is to look at how many of each version are still flying in private ownership.
@@AgentJayZThat’s a very risky measure. All of the early jets had high accident rates because nobody yet knew how to design a “safe” jet combat aircraft. Although the MiG-15 was even worse with wicked stall characteristics, the F-86 killed a lot of pilots in its career, almost including future Apollo 11 astronaut Michael Collins. The one with the most powerful engine and zippiest performance was the Canadair CL-13 Sabre Mk.6, powered by an Avro Canada Orenda 14 engine.
A beautiful aircraft that I've built a few models of. Went to the Temora aviation museum recently (NSW) and they have a fully operational Avon Sabre there that they fly during their airshows.
In 1966 I saw Sabres carry out ground attacks at Singleton Army base using both cannon and bombs they were guided to targets (old tanks and trucks) by smoke delivered by mortars. They were impressive and you could see the shock waves from the bombs travelled for miles.
I’ve been to a lot of Airshows over the years.I still remember seeing a F86 Sabre at The Edinburgh Airshow in 86.Still does one of the best low level pass ever 👌👌👌
In 1973 Australian Sabre aircraft were given to Indonesia as part of a Defence Cooperation project. The aircraft were based at Iswahudyi air base at Madiun Central Java. The RAAF provided a team to support the aircraft. In August 1976 an aircraft returning from Independence Day celebrations in Jakarta had a problem and the pilot ejected, a farmer working in the rice field was hit and killed by the ejection seat. Not his lucky day.
As a kid I always like the looks of the saber, much like any young adult admiring one of the 60's era muscle cars. I never realized Australia had them too. Nice video and well put together.
I miss the F-86H and the "Sabre Dog" Versions D/L/K . My country flew the Canadair License built Sabre Mk5 (a gift from canada ) in the training role , purchased then new built Sabre Mk6 for the JG/Fighterwings and one JG/Fighter Wing flew the Fiat license built (canon armed and RADAR equipped) F-86K .
Some years ago, I was at an airshow at RAAF Edinburgh, north of Adelaide, where our newly acquired FA18s were on display. One of the last flights of the afternoon was a fly past of a Hornet, a Mirage and last, but by no means least, a Sabre. For some reason, the Sabre pilot broke the sound barrier, maybe trying to catch the other two aircraft??? The resulting sonic boom devastated the glasshouses of the adjoining market garden area of Virginia. Strangely, I understand that the RAAF only received one claim for compensation. A bloke growing roses. Made me wonder what was in the other glass houses???
Are you sure it was a Sabre and not a Mirage? The airshow at Edinburgh in 1986 featured the Mustang, Sabre, Mirage and Hornet flying displays, but only the Mirage accidentaly broke the sound barrier. ua-cam.com/video/Kxo5R4Z4Ff8/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/h0AWGeNE4jA/v-deo.html
Probably one of the most beautiful jet airplanes ever manufactured. Do not understand why the Ho Chi Minh trail was not shut down. My unit of the 101st in Phu Bai was close to Firebase Ripcord which fell to the NVA with many casualties.
When a little kid growing up in fifties England we could watch the F86s probably flying out of Lakenheath of one of the many USAF bases in East Anglia region. we were mesmerised, even now seventy years later l still think the F86 is a beautiful aeroplane
ex-RAAF CAC Sabre was the first jet fighter operated by Royal Malaysian Air Force, and has a distinction of transforming the young, small air force from logistic roles, to new air defense role.
It was the best of the Sabres. Dad was in the RAAF as an engineer, sadly they were gone from service before I was old enough to appreciate them. One of my favourite planes now.
Here in the country in Queensland, I had a High School Teacher who had flown the RAAF F-86, cannot remember which conflict he flew in tho... and cannot remember his name, and wish I had talked to him about his experiences now.... And I remember in the late 80s seeing a squadron of the F86 flying down the road at tree top level... its kinda strange because they were retired by then.. so not sure if I am misremembering it now... but the road was a USAF / RAF airbase/aerodrome in WWII The same thing with the Mirage IIIs, they had also screamed down the road at tree top level later on... I guess it was a common retirement practice back then
@@AJS86 They were Mirage IIIs that I saw, I even went to the Amberley Airshow where they had demonstrated the turning circle of a Mirage III and the new F/A-18, so the Mirage IIIs were still flying
@@AJS86 I worked on the Mirage at the time the Hornet was replacing the Mirage, I left the RAAF in 1986 and we still had one sqn of Mirage and one sqn of Hornets at that time at Williamtown base in NSW. The Mirage was finally retired in Nov. 1988.
The f86 was my favorite plane as a boy,I sat in one that was in the parafield classic fighter museum in South Australia but has now been sold off to be put into flyable conditions
I saw a Display at either Avalon or Laverton by an English Test Pilot Squadron Leader Swenson . My father an ex Mustang pilot, was really impressed by that display. Swenson was killed test Flying a Mirage 111O built at Avalon very near the Avalon Airfield.
The F-86 to Mig-15 loss ratio during the Korean war was 14:1 in favor of the F-86. It was Clement Atlee, the Labour Prime Minister, who sent the RR Nene to Russia. He did it in the spirit of "labor brotherhood", as if Stalin was his "good brother"... In his eyes the US was the "bogyman" and Stalin was some kind of saint.. The .50 cal machine guns in the F-86 had a flatter trajectory taking a more straight path to it's target, the Mig's 20 mm had a "drooping" path. There were 56 Sabres lost vs about 800 Migs. A lot of the US pilots were more experienced, having fought the Luftwaffe in WW2.
Clement Atlee also stopped rearmament and cut many projects short. Projects that would be restarted rapidly due to the Korean War. The Swift and Hunter might have no been so delayed with out these decisions let alone the fact the best soviet aircraft would've been the Mig-9 without the tech transfer.
Well you seem to have forgotten about the targeting system on the F-86 . There was a reason for that black area on the Sabers nose . You might want to try doing a little more research before putting you opinions down in print . People will think you're well informed .
At 23 seconds into this video there's an F-86 banking and you can see the leading edge slots in the wings that were a big improvement to it's turning ability. The gun sight made it easier to score hits but it was the slotted wing that enabled it to out turn them and that was a bigger issue, if you can't maneuver to get your target in your sights you're not going to hit them.
It is known that victory claims by both sides were exaggerated. F-86A pilots knew they were fighting skilled opponents that were flying a superior fighter. At the end of the Cold War when Soviet records were open to Western aviation scholars it was discerned that the loss ratio during the first year of the war when Russian pilots were the primary opponent was closer to a 1 to 1 draw. Overall, after Russian pilots were withdrawn and replaced by Chinese and North Koreans, the ratio may have increased to closer to 5 to 1. But, the F-86 groups faced overwhelming numbers, sometimes as much as ten to one. Furthermore, whereas the Mig bases were only a few miles from "Mig Alley," the F-86s were operating at their very farthest range limit. The tenuous USAF air superiority also prevented the Chinese and North Koreans from building Mig bases south of the Yalu where they would have been in range of the battlefield and made life extremely difficult for UN fighter-bombers supporting the ground troops. F-86 pilots nearly always operated at a disadvantage, but still held the Migs at bay. The exaggerated kill-loss claims kind of obscures that very real and heroic accomplishment.
Yeah the old saying “If it looks right it is right” certainly applies to the Sabre that’s for sure! I can remember seeing them in the air over Melbourne on an occasion or two back in the sixties when I was a kid and remember they had an unmistakable silhouette along with the Vampire that I can remember and the RAAF’s Canberra bombers, all beautiful aircraft designs (and sounds)
Thank for your very informative video. I remember seeing GAC Sabres logo Ned up at Butterworth airbase in 79 - 81. My step father was posted to Malaysia and we lived there for a couple of years.
I flew the Mirage 3 76 squadron under the late Jim flemming out of Williamtown base nsw back in the mid 1980s!! It was pretty frightening going from a Windjeel to a jet ! Lost one of mates on a sortie ? Craig Macklemann in A3-40 which was our c/o plane ! May he rest in peace 🙏 always in our hearts & memories!❤❤❤
At Ubon, Colonel Robin Olds would refer to 79 SQN as TWA (the Teeny Weeny Airforce). Olds was instrumental in arranging DACT operations between 79 SQN and his aircraft to improve his pilot's proficiency.
Olds was a hell of a guy. The book "Fighter Pilot: The Memoirs of Legendary Ace Robin Olds" is a really fun read, despite his unfortunate choice of wife, (movie star Ella Raines). His wife conspired with the Rothschilds to keep him from participating in the Korean War, which was a bitter blow to him.
I am incredibly impressed with the (pictures/video) ! (I'd like to phrase this better, but my english is "rusty" at the moment). (For some reason...I don't know why, really). (Please picture 2 iron gear-wheels *grating* against one another) 😅 Well, anyhoo, I am mightily impressed with your video ! -Best regards from Iceland 🇮🇸 -K.
Great planes!!! Especially when equipped with the Rolls Royce engines... Also , besides the good performance and very nice flying qualities, a beautiful looking plane... One of my favorite planes, to be put to the test...
I remember them in RMAF colours flying here in Malaysia. I should point out that between 1957 to 1963, the country was called Malaya. In 1963, East Malaysia, the states of Sabah, and Sarawak on Borneo, joined and the Country changed its name to Malaysia. In 1965, Singapore left Malaysia to become its own country.
The F-86 was the last USAF fighter to be produced with an armament of .50 BMGs that l know of. Early adoption of 20mm cannon in US fighters was stymied by the problems in producing reliable cannon. The issue was not in the manufacturing. The problems lay in the Bureau of Ordinance using the wrong tolerancing when converting the drawings from metric to inches.
Some of the early shots were of the La-154 - also a competent fighter but more difficult to construct. One was mistakenly claimed in Korea (actually a MiG-15). When the RAAF decided to replace the Sabre, France offered the Mirage III with the afterburning and improved Avon engine to make maintenance easier - but the powers that were did not go for it. So, we had to learn about the Atar engine and discard a lot of Avon tools and jigs. :(
Thanks mate. Fantastic doco. Really enjoyed that. ABETW, (RAN) here. Lot's of facts I never knew. But, how about we use one Assault Carrier as an AC, and the other as an assault ship?
The documentary gives the Germans slightly more credit than they deserve for swept wings. Specifically this applies to the Me.262. According to one of the German designers writing in Air International Magazine back in the 1970’s the Me.262’s wing sweep was because of a design mistake that left the aircraft’s center of gravity too far forward. In 1943, the cheapest way to correct the problem was to sweep the wings! The RAF Coastal Command Short S.25 Sunderland - the Flying Porcupine - had swept wings for exactly the same reason!
It´s the best and the more accurate video about the truth about either Mig 15 and F-86! At least someone shows those aircrafts have german projects orign (FW Ta 183 for Mig 15 and Me P1101 for F-86). Thanks!
The f-86 sabre was it was the most beautiful even it Compares with the F-22 and Beauty it was so beautiful and so had a good time when I saw one, I knew what it was therefore
My thing is this since we recovered the m62, we realized the swept-wing was important but why did they cooperate that man s89 and the other aircraft they had out there?, aerodynamics is the king
I didn't know the CAC corporation was still working at that time. As far as i knew. Australian aircraft building company had ceased operations after WW2 due to cost an new stuff coming out of America.
I worked at Government Aircraft Factories (GAF), which had built Beaufort bombers and Beaufighters during WW2, from 1978 to 1987, and were then from the early 80s building (assembling) MDD F/A-18s when they became AerospaceTechnologies Australia (ASTA). GAF was in Lorimer Street Port Melbourne, and right next door was Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation (CAC) until it became Hawker De Havilland Australia in the late 80s as well. Their proximity and similar names caused immense problems for many people. So the Australian aircraft industry had definitely survived WW2. CAC produced Sabres and Mirage wings, as well as jet engines (the RR Avon used in Canberras and Sabres) and later ATARs for the Mirages. GAF produced Lincoln bombers, Canberra jets, Mirage fuselages and final assembly, Nomads, and F/A-18s, as well as Jindivik target drones, Ikara anti-sub missiles, and Nulka anti-ship missile decoys. GAF is now part of Boeing Australia, dunno what CAC is nowadays.
@@brettcoster4781 i wish we would build planes again. I would like to see a Purpose built Water bomber. An a purpose built Sea an Land Rescue drones an planes. They would be of great use to us in Australia.
And the swept-wing from the mig-15 is something that we learned before they were even able to Manufacturing, but I'll priorities it's not in the right place
As usual the Mig 15 shots include the Lavochkin LA15 which is not a Mig15 - it was a shoulder wing design whereas the Mig was a mid- wing design. It always appears in stock footage of Mig-15 - you would think the editors would see the difference! it's at 3.15
The Russians touring the Roll-Royce production line wore crepe-soled shoes which they pressed onto metal swarf on the factory floor, They could later analyse the metal used in the Nene.
12:41 - the north korean pilot who defected to south korea with a MIG 15 - Noh Geum Seok - estimates that the American vs Russian combats resulted in a tie - the huge numbers against the MIGs after the Russians left were due to the inadequate training of the North Koreans & Chinese - and to the defective manufacture of the MIGs sent to them - Geum Seok said that many North Koreans were so afraid of facing american (or allied) fighters - that they emptied their guns into the air before encountering the enemy so they could return to base - this comes from Blaine Hardens' very readable bio of him "The Great Leader and the Fighter Pilot"
The F86 looks like a jet should. If you ask an 8 year old to draw a jet, it will likley look very much like an F86, or maybe an F104 - even if they have never seen either one of those. Like they say, if it looks right, it probably is. The F86 looks right.
Australian RAAF Sabres flew cap over Saigon in case the NVA launched their IL86 Bombers. I'm a firm believer that the Australian Sabres would have made mince meat out of the NVA Bombers.
Oh please, we got them in 1957. They were already obsolete. The Super Sabre could fly at mach 1. I don’t understand why we didn’t get the F-100 Super Sabre. No wonder we got the Mirage III only 7 years later!
What l find ironic is that prior to swept wings taking over a lot of the aircraft developed by other countries were using wing profiles developed by the NACA research facilities. Research facilities in the US, Britian and the Soviet Union were well aware of the potential of jet engines and advanced wing designs. In the US the problem was seen prior to around 1940 as being one of the hight temperature alloys having hot been developed as of yet. And the company working on high temp alloys was GE. Primarily for use in the input eide of turbosuperchargers. As far as l know the first axial flow gas turbine for aviation use to be started on in the US was the Lockheed L-1000. This was started in the 1930s. Others in the US, Britian and Germany were aware of the Whittle patents. As were the Soviets (1). Plus Whittle and von Olhein were hot the only ones engaged in designing jet engines pre WWII. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgilio_Leret_Ruiz ln 1935 in Spain Ruiz was granted a patent for a jet engine. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gy%C3%B6rgy_Jendrassik The first turboprop design was undertaken by Jendrassik a Hungarian mechanical engineer. Prototypes were built and tested between 1938 and 1942. First being run on test stands in 1940. He also designed a small 75kw turboprop. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrovick_F.2. First flown in 1943 mounted in a Gloster Meteor it can trace its ancestry to an axial flow compressor section first demonstated in 1928. The F.2 had better performance than the Whittle centrifigal type but worse reliability. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxime_Guillaume Guillaume was awarded a French patent in the early 1920s for an axial flow gas turbine. The first patent to awarded for an aviation engine of this type As to leading edge swept wings they were nothing new. But they were ussually employed prior to the use of jet engines to solve center of gravity issues. This is why the ME-262 has a moderately swept wing. In fact its leading edge sweep angle is about the same as a DC-3.
Click bait title...3/4 way through before it even mentions the CAC Sabre😠. Practically nothing about its development and differences....Should be “ generic history of Sabre with a bit about service of RAAF version at end”
@@peteanderson2533 I stunned when I found out that history almost repeated itself with the Mirage. Relatively recently found out they experimented by built a single example with an Avon engine! Almost ended up with a unique (& likely better performing) Aussie version of Mirage III as well!
The Labour Government in England 1945 did include closet Communists and so Jet technology was sold to the Soviets. But in fairness most US jet engines were based on British designs too, both Axial-Flow and Centrifugal-Flow technology was given to the Americans from 1941. But the real crime was the Labour Government stopped work on advanced projects, so the wartime Meteor and Vampire stayed in production until the1950s. The first British swept wing jet, the Hawker Hunter did not fly until 1951 and did not enter service until1954.
In early 1960s I visited a tragic sabre crash site in my friends backyard In Newcastle NSW A large part of fuselage was sticking out of the ground Does anyone remember that?
We should have had the upper hand when it came to swept-wing design because we captured these aircraft me-262, it was swept Wing aircraft and the American intelligence people that were breaking this down didn't put incorporate that into the future of our aircraft we had these straight Wing unnecessary resistance
4:50 There are no reliable figures for the speed of the rocket-powered Me-163. Pretty much everything is guess work and internet BS. It is known that one example of the type exceeded its Mcrit but how fast it went is purely a matter of speculation.
One of my favourite photographs is of me as a kid standing on the wing near the cockpit of a Sabre at Canberra airport in the 60s. Later that day the same jet broke the sound barrier over Canberra, shattering a few windows in the process and giving rise to a number of complaints in the Canberra Times the next day. I believe the plane belonged to 77 Sqn. Those were the days. I was about 10 at the time, so the memory is probably a bit 'Joe Biden'.
Is it me, or does the narrator switch from a US to an AU accent first around 1:30 and then on and off throughout? I presume that it’s an Australian voice actor, putting on an accent, and then forgetting midsentence occasionally?
The f-86 sabre was the only counterparts to be mig-15, the mig-15 was a surprise to the Westin it shouldn't have been but nevertheless it was but we learned how to deal with it the f-86 sabre was a gift from God
I cannot get over how the Brits gave a Rolls Royce engine to the Soviets as a result of a wager! But apparently there was a proviso: it was not to be used for military purposes. That worked out well!
The Russians also walked around the RR Factory with crepe sole shoes. Picking up metal shavings to analyze. I worked in a Machine Shop in 1980 after high school graduation. Told this to a Machinist who had been in the Navy. He just shook his head at the stupidity.
not a bad doc., but contains some bull. the RAF quickly changed to cannon early in WW11. The U.K., also gave the USA the jet engine.( they had no idea what it was )Try to get the facts correct
If you haven't seen it, check out our doco on 77 Squadron in the Korean war ua-cam.com/video/yokzRngvs6o/v-deo.html when the Australians didn't have the Sabre but Mustangs and then Meteors - going from kings of the sky to completely outclassed by the MiG-15.
77SQN, the mighty Grumpy Monkeys.
My Dad was the youngest pilot in 3 Squadron when they flew the first Sabres from Williamtown to Butterworth.
One of the most incredible episodes in the Avon Sabre's history occurred in November 1984 at the Bendigo Airshow. PM Bob Hawke was watching (it was the 1984 election campaign) while the last operational Sabre was doing an energetic aerobatic display and promptly flamed out. The pilot opted to save the aircraft by performing a dead-stick landing on the short 1200m runway and managed to pull it up in the mud just short of the boundary fence. Lucky we had a wet spring that year!
Wow; I've never heard that story. I used to see a Sabre flying around RAAF Base Richmond in the mid 80s; I wonder if it was the same aircraft?
@@weeroonafarm5981yep same one, now based at Temora
I flew the Avon Sabre for two years before transitioning to the Mirage. It had 30mm Aden cannon and sidewinder 1/R missiles. Book figures time to 35,000 feet was six minutes but had only a 6G limit and at 600kts IAS was subject to roll reversal. Mcrit was M.94 and could go supersonic in a dive. 50% more thrust made it the best high altitude subsonic fighter of it's generation.
um so they are giving themselves paycheques to assemble a subsonic hobby plane as Australia's hottest aircraft when the USA is flying Mach 2 combat aircraft. Not as bad as the Boomerang.
Cool info! Thanks for contributing. As far as I can tell It’s seems almost no pilot ever got to fly CAC Sabre and US version , or if they did no comparison ever got published. ( or even more interesting to compare the Avon Sabre to the orenda Sabre Canadian version)
Way To Go 👍
Let ll
And the Avon Sabre kept on going when the Aden's are fired.
When I worked at Richmond I worked in the hangar where the sabre was housed that was still flying in the early 90s. The pilot was a guy by the name of Phil Frawley, who only retired from the air force a few years ago as the oldest fighter pilot in the world. It was always amazing to see him come fly the sabre and put on a bit of a show, the whole base would come watch
Phil was from76SQN. Also flew a mig
Always thought the Sabre was the most beautiful jet ever made, small, nimble and such clean lines.
The GREATEST Jet combat movie ever made was "The Hunters" with Robert Mitchum.
Never knew this about the Australian Sabre and very pleasantly surprised by how much they improved on the base design.
Good on ya, Mate.
I saw a CAC Sabre perform at Avalon air show in 2011, a truly beautiful aircraft and fulfilled a childhood wish to see one flying.👍🇦🇺
my father was part of the RAAF team that trained the Malaysian Aiirforce to maintain the Sabres, RAAF base Butterworth, 1969 to 1972. such a beautiful iconic aircraft.
...I was there in those days...
IN 1983 15 year old me was doing work experience with the RAAF as an airframe fitter on C130 Hercules at Richmond AFB.
In that hanger was the RAAF Top Hat F-86 Sabre A94-983. I got to sit in the cockpit of this incredible aircraft.
The next day it was to do a practice flight display for an upcoming airshow. I was so excited.
I watched as a 2 seat Mirage III landed, delivered the pilot and departed. Wow.
Later that morning the Sabre was airborne, and I saw a great display with many other RAAF personnel.
Unfortunately it burst a tyre on landing and closed the runway and I had to go home.
Great memories but the pictures on the wall in the lunch room. Id never seen a Vag and then I saw 100s
This was probably the best version of the Saber.
Funny how every version was "the best".
One way to determine which was the best is to look at how many of each version are still flying in private ownership.
@@AgentJayZThat’s a very risky measure. All of the early jets had high accident rates because nobody yet knew how to design a “safe” jet combat aircraft. Although the MiG-15 was even worse with wicked stall characteristics, the F-86 killed a lot of pilots in its career, almost including future Apollo 11 astronaut Michael Collins. The one with the most powerful engine and zippiest performance was the Canadair CL-13 Sabre Mk.6, powered by an Avro Canada Orenda 14 engine.
@@beverlychmelik5504 The Rolls Royce Engine a CAC made into the best Version. But the Yanks Wont admit that .
The F-86 is such a beautiful beast. Also, first time I have watched a video here, and you just got a new subscriber!
A beautiful aircraft that I've built a few models of. Went to the Temora aviation museum recently (NSW) and they have a fully operational Avon Sabre there that they fly during their airshows.
I was based at Kunsan AB in Korea in the early eighties and the Koreans were still flying these planes. Never got tired of seeing them fly.
In 1966 I saw Sabres carry out ground attacks at Singleton Army base using both cannon and bombs they were guided to targets (old tanks and trucks) by smoke delivered by mortars. They were impressive and you could see the shock waves from the bombs travelled for miles.
I’ve been to a lot of Airshows over the years.I still remember seeing a F86 Sabre at The Edinburgh Airshow in 86.Still does one of the best low level pass ever 👌👌👌
In 1973 Australian Sabre aircraft were given to Indonesia as part of a Defence Cooperation project. The aircraft were based at Iswahudyi air base at Madiun Central Java. The RAAF provided a team to support the aircraft. In August 1976 an aircraft returning from Independence Day celebrations in Jakarta had a problem and the pilot ejected, a farmer working in the rice field was hit and killed by the ejection seat. Not his lucky day.
When a pilot ejects the plane and seat are going to come down somewhere.
As a kid I always like the looks of the saber, much like any young adult admiring one of the 60's era muscle cars. I never realized Australia had them too. Nice video and well put together.
Well said
Awesome documentary folks - bravo!
I miss the F-86H and the "Sabre Dog" Versions D/L/K .
My country flew the Canadair License built Sabre Mk5 (a gift from canada ) in the training role , purchased then new built Sabre Mk6 for the JG/Fighterwings and one JG/Fighter Wing flew the Fiat license built (canon armed and RADAR equipped) F-86K .
Some years ago, I was at an airshow at RAAF Edinburgh, north of Adelaide, where our newly acquired FA18s were on display. One of the last flights of the afternoon was a fly past of a Hornet, a Mirage and last, but by no means least, a Sabre. For some reason, the Sabre pilot broke the sound barrier, maybe trying to catch the other two aircraft??? The resulting sonic boom devastated the glasshouses of the adjoining market garden area of Virginia. Strangely, I understand that the RAAF only received one claim for compensation. A bloke growing roses. Made me wonder what was in the other glass houses???
Great story, and yes, I'm pretty sure that the other glass houses were growing something illegal....
Are you sure it was a Sabre and not a Mirage? The airshow at Edinburgh in 1986 featured the Mustang, Sabre, Mirage and Hornet flying displays, but only the Mirage accidentaly broke the sound barrier. ua-cam.com/video/Kxo5R4Z4Ff8/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/h0AWGeNE4jA/v-deo.html
Virginia was known for italian grown “tomatoes”.
Dope like the rest of them that were busted not long down the road
this channel is one of many channels i loves and the reasons is for honestly while creating every contents
Probably one of the most beautiful jet airplanes ever manufactured. Do not understand why the Ho Chi Minh trail was not shut down. My unit of the 101st in Phu Bai was close to Firebase Ripcord which fell to the NVA with many casualties.
I'm thoroughly enjoying binge watching these videos! Thanks!
When a little kid growing up in fifties England we could watch the F86s probably flying out of Lakenheath of one of the many USAF bases in East Anglia region. we were mesmerised, even now seventy years later l still think the F86 is a beautiful aeroplane
ex-RAAF CAC Sabre was the first jet fighter operated by Royal Malaysian Air Force, and has a distinction of transforming the young, small air force from logistic roles, to new air defense role.
I bet they did us all proud!
It was the best of the Sabres. Dad was in the RAAF as an engineer, sadly they were gone from service before I was old enough to appreciate them. One of my favourite planes now.
Here in the country in Queensland, I had a High School Teacher who had flown the RAAF F-86, cannot remember which conflict he flew in tho... and cannot remember his name, and wish I had talked to him about his experiences now....
And I remember in the late 80s seeing a squadron of the F86 flying down the road at tree top level... its kinda strange because they were retired by then.. so not sure if I am misremembering it now... but the road was a USAF / RAF airbase/aerodrome in WWII
The same thing with the Mirage IIIs, they had also screamed down the road at tree top level later on... I guess it was a common retirement practice back then
If it was late 80s it wouldn't be a mirage either.
Hornet was in RAAF from 86
@@AJS86 They were Mirage IIIs that I saw, I even went to the Amberley Airshow where they had demonstrated the turning circle of a Mirage III and the new F/A-18, so the Mirage IIIs were still flying
@@AJS86 I worked on the Mirage at the time the Hornet was replacing the Mirage, I left the RAAF in 1986 and we still had one sqn of Mirage and one sqn of Hornets at that time at Williamtown base in NSW. The Mirage was finally retired in Nov. 1988.
Thank You. this was very informative, a great documentary.
The f86 was my favorite plane as a boy,I sat in one that was in the parafield classic fighter museum in South Australia but has now been sold off to be put into flyable conditions
An old friend of mine, despite flying supersonic jets, said the CAC Sabre was the best plane he ever flew at subsonic speed.
I served in 79 SQN Mirage III in Butterworth. Stood up as the F-18 Hornets were being introduced and 3Sqn was returned to Australia.
A HUGE THANK YOU for your service
I saw a Display at either Avalon or Laverton by an English Test Pilot Squadron Leader Swenson . My father an ex Mustang pilot, was really impressed by that display. Swenson was killed test Flying a Mirage 111O built at Avalon very near the Avalon Airfield.
The F-86 to Mig-15 loss ratio during the Korean war was 14:1 in favor of the F-86. It was Clement Atlee, the Labour Prime Minister, who sent the RR Nene to Russia. He did it in the spirit of "labor brotherhood", as if Stalin was his "good brother"... In his eyes the US was the "bogyman" and Stalin was some kind of saint.. The .50 cal machine guns in the F-86 had a flatter trajectory taking a more straight path to it's target, the Mig's 20 mm had a "drooping" path. There were 56 Sabres lost vs about 800 Migs. A lot of the US pilots were more experienced, having fought the Luftwaffe in WW2.
Clement Atlee also stopped rearmament and cut many projects short. Projects that would be restarted rapidly due to the Korean War. The Swift and Hunter might have no been so delayed with out these decisions let alone the fact the best soviet aircraft would've been the Mig-9 without the tech transfer.
Well you seem to have forgotten about the targeting system on the F-86 . There was a reason for that black area on the Sabers nose . You might want to try doing a little more research before putting you opinions down in print . People will think you're well informed .
At 23 seconds into this video there's an F-86 banking and you can see the leading edge slots in the wings that were a big improvement to it's turning ability. The gun sight made it easier to score hits but it was the slotted wing that enabled it to out turn them and that was a bigger issue, if you can't maneuver to get your target in your sights you're not going to hit them.
It is known that victory claims by both sides were exaggerated. F-86A pilots knew they were fighting skilled opponents that were flying a superior fighter. At the end of the Cold War when Soviet records were open to Western aviation scholars it was discerned that the loss ratio during the first year of the war when Russian pilots were the primary opponent was closer to a 1 to 1 draw. Overall, after Russian pilots were withdrawn and replaced by Chinese and North Koreans, the ratio may have increased to closer to 5 to 1. But, the F-86 groups faced overwhelming numbers, sometimes as much as ten to one. Furthermore, whereas the Mig bases were only a few miles from "Mig Alley," the F-86s were operating at their very farthest range limit. The tenuous USAF air superiority also prevented the Chinese and North Koreans from building Mig bases south of the Yalu where they would have been in range of the battlefield and made life extremely difficult for UN fighter-bombers supporting the ground troops. F-86 pilots nearly always operated at a disadvantage, but still held the Migs at bay. The exaggerated kill-loss claims kind of obscures that very real and heroic accomplishment.
@@IncogNito-gg6uh Really so what the camera footage lied ?? That's the I've heard of it .
I’ve always this aircraft looked like a jet motor with wings .. first time I saw one on the ground I was surprised by how small it was ..
And the Mig is even smaller!
Yeah the old saying “If it looks right it is right” certainly applies to the Sabre that’s for sure! I can remember seeing them in the air over Melbourne on an occasion or two back in the sixties when I was a kid and remember they had an unmistakable silhouette along with the Vampire that I can remember and the RAAF’s Canberra bombers, all beautiful aircraft designs (and sounds)
Thank for your very informative video. I remember seeing GAC Sabres logo Ned up at Butterworth airbase in 79 - 81. My step father was posted to Malaysia and we lived there for a couple of years.
I flew the Mirage 3 76 squadron under the late Jim flemming out of Williamtown base nsw back in the mid 1980s!! It was pretty frightening going from a Windjeel to a jet ! Lost one of mates on a sortie ? Craig Macklemann in A3-40 which was our c/o plane ! May he rest in peace 🙏 always in our hearts & memories!❤❤❤
Great videos. Well done!
At Ubon, Colonel Robin Olds would refer to 79 SQN as TWA (the Teeny Weeny Airforce). Olds was instrumental in arranging DACT operations between 79 SQN and his aircraft to improve his pilot's proficiency.
Olds was a hell of a guy. The book "Fighter Pilot: The Memoirs of Legendary Ace Robin Olds" is a really fun read, despite his unfortunate choice of wife, (movie star Ella Raines). His wife conspired with the Rothschilds to keep him from participating in the Korean War, which was a bitter blow to him.
Great. Fresh. Well done and thanks
Saw these at RAAF Laverton Victoria as a cadet.Also had Canberras,Vampires,& Neptunes.😊
Can you make a documentary video about Australian F/A18 hornet classic aircraft?
Australian CAC Sabres were used for Base defence for USAF base Ubon in Thailand at the beginning of the Vietnam War.
And the Sabres out flew the F-105s in mock combat.
I am incredibly impressed with the (pictures/video) !
(I'd like to phrase this better, but my english is "rusty" at the moment).
(For some reason...I don't know why, really).
(Please picture 2 iron gear-wheels *grating* against one another) 😅
Well, anyhoo, I am mightily impressed with your video !
-Best regards from Iceland 🇮🇸 -K.
Great planes!!! Especially when equipped with the Rolls Royce engines... Also , besides the good performance and very nice flying qualities, a beautiful looking plane... One of my favorite planes, to be put to the test...
For the record, the P-80 Shooting Star which had straight wings, was superior to the Me 26.which had swept wings.
Watched a CAC sabre at the Sale airshow last year, it’s part of the 100th squadron
I remember them in RMAF colours flying here in Malaysia. I should point out that between 1957 to 1963, the country was called Malaya. In 1963, East Malaysia, the states of Sabah, and Sarawak on Borneo, joined and the Country changed its name to Malaysia. In 1965, Singapore left Malaysia to become its own country.
There's a static CAC Sabre at the Queensland Air Museum - awesome to see one of these birds in the flesh 😎
F - 8 6 - S A B R E - C A C Variant
HELL YEAH 👍
A Very Interesting and Detailed Doco 👍
The F-86 was the last USAF fighter to be produced with an armament of .50 BMGs that l know of. Early adoption of 20mm cannon in US fighters was stymied by the problems in producing reliable cannon. The issue was not in the manufacturing. The problems lay in the Bureau of Ordinance using the wrong tolerancing when converting the drawings from metric to inches.
Some of the early shots were of the La-154 - also a competent fighter but more difficult to construct. One was mistakenly claimed in Korea (actually a MiG-15). When the RAAF decided to replace the Sabre, France offered the Mirage III with the afterburning and improved Avon engine to make maintenance easier - but the powers that were did not go for it. So, we had to learn about the Atar engine and discard a lot of Avon tools and jigs. :(
Starlin, "where can I find fool ? British Labour Party "Here I am". 😆
Who is Starlin?
@@waynedaly1718 an honest Russian democrat, who admitted he wanted to exterminate anyone who parted their hair the wrong way.
@@PJ-pj8lr Mwahahaha honest Russian diplomat. Wasn’t aware that there was such a thing
Thanks mate. Fantastic doco. Really enjoyed that. ABETW, (RAN) here. Lot's of facts I never knew. But, how about we use one Assault Carrier as an AC, and the other as an assault ship?
The documentary gives the Germans slightly more credit than they deserve for swept wings. Specifically this applies to the Me.262. According to one of the German designers writing in Air International Magazine back in the 1970’s the Me.262’s wing sweep was because of a design mistake that left the aircraft’s center of gravity too far forward. In 1943, the cheapest way to correct the problem was to sweep the wings! The RAF Coastal Command Short S.25 Sunderland - the Flying Porcupine - had swept wings for exactly the same reason!
It´s the best and the more accurate video about the truth about either Mig 15 and F-86! At least someone shows those aircrafts have german projects orign (FW Ta 183 for Mig 15 and Me P1101 for F-86). Thanks!
Turkish Air ForcecF86 Sabres were at RAF Akrotiri visiting in 1960/61 and the only time I have seen Sabres.
It may be likely that someone obtained documents from Russia on their development of the MIG15 and that influenced design of thenF86?
The f-86 sabre was it was the most beautiful even it Compares with the F-22 and Beauty it was so beautiful and so had a good time when I saw one, I knew what it was therefore
Plane history is interesting.
This channel should be called American aviation history!
My father flew the F86 whilst in the RAF in the 1950s .
You know, you just need to tug it at both ends and you can turn it into an F-16.
My thing is this since we recovered the m62, we realized the swept-wing was important but why did they cooperate that man s89 and the other aircraft they had out there?, aerodynamics is the king
This was a very informative history of the F86 There was no real history of the impact it had on Australia's Air Force
I didn't know the CAC corporation was still working at that time. As far as i knew. Australian aircraft building company had ceased operations after WW2 due to cost an new stuff coming out of America.
Went a lot longer than the Sabre with licence production of the French Mirage to replace the Sabre and then the FA-18 Hornet to replace the Mirage.
@@amsuther hmm. Ok then.
I worked at Government Aircraft Factories (GAF), which had built Beaufort bombers and Beaufighters during WW2, from 1978 to 1987, and were then from the early 80s building (assembling) MDD F/A-18s when they became AerospaceTechnologies Australia (ASTA). GAF was in Lorimer Street Port Melbourne, and right next door was Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation (CAC) until it became Hawker De Havilland Australia in the late 80s as well. Their proximity and similar names caused immense problems for many people. So the Australian aircraft industry had definitely survived WW2.
CAC produced Sabres and Mirage wings, as well as jet engines (the RR Avon used in Canberras and Sabres) and later ATARs for the Mirages. GAF produced Lincoln bombers, Canberra jets, Mirage fuselages and final assembly, Nomads, and F/A-18s, as well as Jindivik target drones, Ikara anti-sub missiles, and Nulka anti-ship missile decoys. GAF is now part of Boeing Australia, dunno what CAC is nowadays.
@@brettcoster4781 i wish we would build planes again.
I would like to see a Purpose built Water bomber. An a purpose built Sea an Land Rescue drones an planes.
They would be of great use to us in Australia.
@@stephenbachman132 aitcraft are far too expensive a proposition for short runs.
It's Australia, and we do love to hot up our rides.
And the swept-wing from the mig-15 is something that we learned before they were even able to Manufacturing, but I'll priorities it's not in the right place
The MIG-15 was a capabable aircraft but the Sowjet weren't allowed to radio what was a great disadvantage!
Fantastic jet, should be modernized and put back into production.
As usual the Mig 15 shots include the Lavochkin LA15 which is not a Mig15 - it was a shoulder wing design whereas the Mig was a mid- wing design. It always appears in stock footage of Mig-15 - you would think the editors would see the difference! it's at 3.15
I just assumed it was part of the narrative of how they were embracing the swept wing designs vs. the U.S. et al.
The Russians touring the Roll-Royce production line wore crepe-soled shoes which they pressed onto metal swarf on the factory floor, They could later analyse the metal used in the Nene.
I thought that involved a submarine components factory, but can't find the reference now.
12:41 - the north korean pilot who defected to south korea with a MIG 15 - Noh Geum Seok - estimates that the American vs Russian combats resulted in a tie - the huge numbers against the MIGs after the Russians left were due to the inadequate training of the North Koreans & Chinese - and to the defective manufacture of the MIGs sent to them - Geum Seok said that many North Koreans were so afraid of facing american (or allied) fighters - that they emptied their guns into the air before encountering the enemy so they could return to base - this comes from Blaine Hardens' very readable bio of him "The Great Leader and the Fighter Pilot"
The F86 looks like a jet should. If you ask an 8 year old to draw a jet, it will likley look very much like an F86, or maybe an F104 - even if they have never seen either one of those.
Like they say, if it looks right, it probably is. The F86 looks right.
Australian RAAF Sabres flew cap over Saigon in case the NVA launched their IL86 Bombers. I'm a firm believer that the Australian Sabres would have made mince meat out of the NVA Bombers.
Ithought the Gloster Meteor had been the deadliest plane in the RAAF
Oh please, we got them in 1957. They were already obsolete. The Super Sabre could fly at mach 1. I don’t understand why we didn’t get the F-100 Super Sabre. No wonder we got the Mirage III only 7 years later!
The Australian part of this video begins at 12:50 .
👍🇦🇺
THAT'S how to do a documentary.
Good on you all.
Did the Australian Sabres get the early Sidewinder missiles like Canadian and US ones?
RAAF Canberra B20 bombers operated in the Vietnam war, a much more heavy hitter than the Sabre.
What l find ironic is that prior to swept wings taking over a lot of the aircraft developed by other countries were using wing profiles developed by the NACA research facilities. Research facilities in the US, Britian and the Soviet Union were well aware of the potential of jet engines and advanced wing designs. In the US the problem was seen prior to around 1940 as being one of the hight temperature alloys having hot been developed as of yet. And the company working on high temp alloys was GE. Primarily for use in the input eide of turbosuperchargers. As far as l know the first axial flow gas turbine for aviation use to be started on in the US was the Lockheed L-1000. This was started in the 1930s. Others in the US, Britian and Germany were aware of the Whittle patents. As were the Soviets (1). Plus Whittle and von Olhein were hot the only ones engaged in designing jet engines pre WWII.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgilio_Leret_Ruiz ln 1935 in Spain Ruiz was granted a patent for a jet engine.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gy%C3%B6rgy_Jendrassik The first turboprop design was undertaken by Jendrassik a Hungarian mechanical engineer. Prototypes were built and tested between 1938 and 1942. First being run on test stands in 1940. He also designed a small 75kw turboprop.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrovick_F.2. First flown in 1943 mounted in a Gloster Meteor it can trace its ancestry to an axial flow compressor section first demonstated in 1928. The F.2 had better performance than the Whittle centrifigal type but worse reliability.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxime_Guillaume Guillaume was awarded a French patent in the early 1920s for an axial flow gas turbine. The first patent to awarded for an aviation engine of this type
As to leading edge swept wings they were nothing new. But they were ussually employed prior to the use of jet engines to solve center of gravity issues. This is why the ME-262 has a moderately swept wing. In fact its leading edge sweep angle is about the same as a DC-3.
Super Sabre
Click bait title...3/4 way through before it even mentions the CAC Sabre😠. Practically nothing about its development and differences....Should be “ generic history of Sabre with a bit about service of RAAF version at end”
Yea, bit of a shame that it wasn't covered more. It makes me giggle that the Aussies took it and made it "better".
@@peteanderson2533 I stunned when I found out that history almost repeated itself with the Mirage. Relatively recently found out they experimented by built a single example with an Avon engine! Almost ended up with a unique (& likely better performing) Aussie version of Mirage III as well!
The Labour Government in England 1945 did include closet Communists and so Jet technology was sold to the Soviets. But in fairness most US jet engines were based on British designs too, both Axial-Flow and Centrifugal-Flow technology was given to the Americans from 1941. But the real crime was the Labour Government stopped work on advanced projects, so the wartime Meteor and Vampire stayed in production until the1950s. The first British swept wing jet, the Hawker Hunter did not fly until 1951 and did not enter service until1954.
Mig 15 the most recognize fighter of the nineteen fifty's 🤔
In early 1960s I visited a tragic sabre
crash site in my friends backyard
In Newcastle NSW
A large part of fuselage was sticking out of the ground
Does anyone remember that?
Merewether or Waratah?
We should have had the upper hand when it came to swept-wing design because we captured these aircraft me-262, it was swept Wing aircraft and the American intelligence people that were breaking this down didn't put incorporate that into the future of our aircraft we had these straight Wing unnecessary resistance
Such a beautiful looking aircraft. Realistically, the Sabres record against the Mig-15 is more like 1 to 1.
So what part of all of this, made the Aus Sabre deadly??
0:58 Usual America-centric view. The first American jet engines were based on British engines.
4:50 There are no reliable figures for the speed of the rocket-powered Me-163. Pretty much everything is guess work and internet BS. It is known that one example of the type exceeded its Mcrit but how fast it went is purely a matter of speculation.
One of my favourite photographs is of me as a kid standing on the wing near the cockpit of a Sabre at Canberra airport in the 60s.
Later that day the same jet broke the sound barrier over Canberra, shattering a few windows in the process and giving rise to a number of complaints in the Canberra Times the next day. I believe the plane belonged to 77 Sqn.
Those were the days. I was about 10 at the time, so the memory is probably a bit 'Joe Biden'.
Is it me, or does the narrator switch from a US to an AU accent first around 1:30 and then on and off throughout? I presume that it’s an Australian voice actor, putting on an accent, and then forgetting midsentence occasionally?
It's AI generated! Amazing stuff, makes it sound like an old episode of modern marvels lol
The f-86 sabre was the only counterparts to be mig-15, the mig-15 was a surprise to the Westin it shouldn't have been but nevertheless it was but we learned how to deal with it the f-86 sabre was a gift from God
I cannot get over how the Brits gave a Rolls Royce engine to the Soviets as a result of a wager! But apparently there was a proviso: it was not to be used for military purposes. That worked out well!
The Russians also walked around the RR Factory with crepe sole shoes. Picking up metal shavings to analyze. I worked in a Machine Shop in 1980 after high school graduation. Told this to a Machinist who had been in the Navy. He just shook his head at the stupidity.
@@lindycorgey2743 Yeah! Heard that story as well! I bet the Yanks were pissed when the Migs turned up with a copy!
not a bad doc., but contains some bull. the RAF quickly changed to cannon early in WW11. The U.K., also gave the USA the jet engine.( they had no idea what it was )Try to get the facts correct
She was beautiful and a symbol of the age.