Japanese Jiu-Jitsu? Go a little deeper on what makes it different from Jiu-Jitsu today and if it’s any good? Or some of the FMAs like others are suggesting. That’d be sweet too.
This made me realise, It is not about stopping the first attack from necessarily hurting you, but preventing more attacks and disabling the opponent quickly
with someone with a knife and attack you? you better attack him first and disabled him in no time. Dont wait for him to attack you. If the situations here is the attacker really try to kill you then consider yourself why you dont wear gambeson. If the person just try to intimidate you then attack him first while wearing gambeson.
Dont expect to get away unharmed... But keep the damage as minimal as possible... That was always my understanding of selfdefence. I once did a lot of martial art Training. Boxing background, did muaythai and Switched to mma. I felt pretty confident... Until i was in a brawl. Wrong time, wrong place thing. That humblet me down pretty much to a point where i still love sportive fighting and i am not afraid of confrontations, but... No one is bullet proof. Minimizing damage is the only thing that is the real Deal. In my opinion. And i dont mean this in a paranoid ist way... More of a realisation that If it will come to a fight, you will get hurt. More or less. But less is better XD
Out of about 60 Krav Maga practitioners and instructors that I have trained with over the years, only four of them had any level of competence in hand to hand combat. But this is fairly common in all martial arts. The average karate/taekwondo/jeet kune do/etc practitioner can’t fight either. Overall, the average person simply isn’t willing to do what it takes to develop that skill set, regardless of which gym/school/system they train in.
Indeed. I've trained Krav Maga for years under a great instructor but, from all of my colleagues, only a handful of us were actually serious and could defend ourselves from an attacker. The rest would just do things "however they wanted". Many Krav Maga techniques are quite complex and if you don't put your soul into learning them, you'll never execute them properly.
I was about to say something quite similar. Which leads to the initial saying, it's not the art it's the practitioner. All arts are worth it and effective. Can you find a teacher that will be able to teach it to you the right way is one question and are you serious and dedicated enough to have a full understanding and go search for more when you see something lacking.... (Which again, I still think you need to meet Leo Tamaki for a better understanding of Aikido) It's not specifically a KM issue, its just that people like to compare apples (average joe) and oranges (pro athlete) and base themselves on that to assess whether something is effective or not.... Simply put, that's not how it works. But then again I can more then understand that one would have expectations of quality or skills from a style or school. Sport combat and Martial Arts are different things, real problem is, to make a Martial Arts system truly effective one needs lot of time. Probably more then to make a combat sport effective. And the reality is, athletes and sport combat people usually train 2 to 3 times more then TMA practitionners yet the TMA has 1 on 1 combat plus all Self Defense plus weapon stuff.... It is almost impossible to be effective in all aspect of one's art in that sense. So one has to choose where to focus (especially if it's a 2 times a week practice and not a lifetime study). So, if sold as a system to learn to kick butts as fast as possible and just want to learn for fast results why even bother with anything that is not ring oriented? KM was sold poorly, Itay Gil is not alone working in the direction he is going, Jean Paul jauffret is another man taking KM in that direction and refusing money for grades. Robert Paturel is another one These days are over.... That gap you adressed between Sport and TMA seems to be adressed by KM. I am of the opinion that this mentality and way of seeing SD should be implemented in most of not all TMA... More scenarios, more drills, and always always always more combat and resistance. And yes, what is seen most places online is simply shameful. Karate Bushido is a french magazine that also has a youtube channel. The host GregMma has been champion of MMA in his past and sure likes BJJ and wrestling. He also has a karate background. it is in french maybe subbed, but he does meet LOTS of martial artist from all styles and creed. His meeting with Robert Paturel will show a proper way of teaching KM. His interview with a Kung Fu gentleman shows you how intense it can be if tought properly. Because he ALWAYS spar with his guests. And he likes to go hard (in safety). His goal is not even to prove or disprove it is simply to exchange, and by doing so, what doesn't work is usually exposed right away or they simply decline the invitation out of fear. I implore you, watch those videos, great stuff on there. I am stuck in North America, you are way closer to all these people and may be able to meet some (Leo Tamaki being one of them) and exchange more. Maybe they could interview you and you can explain your unique journey
Sparring is essential! If your Krav Maga school says "We don't spar because it's too deadly", then leave it immediately. Most people (talking about average Joes and Janes) join Krav Maga because they want to learn how to defend themselves, they aren't that interested in fighting! That's the reason why beginner classes are always crowded, but when sparring shows up in the curriculum in the more advanced classes, those people start to quit.
Man this is facts, at my Dojo it's the same 5 or 6 guys(mostly kids)that show up for fight nights/Sparring. Very few people stick around when shit gets real, unfortunately most people just want to look cool and feel like a badass, if Schools didn't cater to these people they'd go out of business smh
I'm glad I had a great Krav Maga teacher. He brought in a lot of street smarts and would put us under constant pressure during lessons. A lot of the time we would learn some sort of technique in the beginning and then he would find some sort of way to break up any sort of monotony. There was always an element of randomness. No lesson was the same. The location had poor lighting, a few pillars too many, and some bodyweight lying around. It was a very tight space and you always felt cornered. For one of the lessons he put on very loud music, and the lights would go on and off. He would throw stuff at us and it was a free for all. We were simulating being in a club and everyone was fighting everyone. Some would group up, some would find ways to flee, etc. We were never just practicing what we learned that day, but what we learned overall. Once he separated us into two groups, had one group do some exercises so it would be exhausted and after a few minutes, the other group would attack them. Most of the people in that group completely panicked and forgot most of their lessons. That was clear evidence for us that we all had more learning to do.
Took a few lessons a few years ago. My instructor actually placed a lot of emphasis in avoiding a dangerous situations in the first place and not freezing under pressure. Not a lot of emphasis on perfect execution of technique and a lot of emphasis on finding opportunities to get to safety while under pressure, often using sheer aggression.
Instantly this elevates things like Krav and Systema above most "martial arts" because they look at self defence holistically, and they don't just focus on "fighting" within a narrow set of sports rules and then going "ta da! Now you know self defence". Too many martial arts give lip service to actual self defence skills like descalation. They say "oh yeah descalate bla bla" but they don't get in to _how you descalate especially under pressure_ . This is where things like KM and Systema are excellent. Don't get me wrong, combat sports can teach excellent fighting skills. They seldom teach you self defence though.
@@humann5682 I don’t think in terms of self defense. I only think in terms of not being in a situation; and, if by chance, I find I am in such a situation where I am in danger, I don’t hesitate, talk, negotiate, etc…I just take the initiative and nonapologetically take his space (his actual ground where his feet are) and just keep going (forward energy) until there is nothing left to be concerned. Punching, kicking, grabbing, throwing, whatever flows (full body Gung Fu). But, that is my style, one I learned on the streets after years of doing tit for tat techniques as I studied karate, American kickboxing, Chinese Gung Fu through different phases of my life.
the problem is that "sheer aggression" is a useless term that would be found in romance novels describing sex scenes. MMA, wrestling, Judo, boxing and jiu jitsu are just as aggressive. its that these martial arts are actually effective.
@@Wrtvrxgvcf55 so is krav maga. simple krav maga hand to hand combat tecniques must be trained to be used. you wont learn how to get out of a rapists grip on boxing, you wont learn to defend against kicks and elbows in BJJ, you wont learn to defend against weapons and multiple opponens in MMA, you will in krav maga but you wont win competitions in boxing, BJJ or MMA in krav maga because you dont know any of it well enough to go against skilled martial artists in those arts, but you will know tecniques from these arts well enough to use them in self defense, atleast thats the goal.
@@Wrtvrxgvcf55”Aggression is useless” “Look at how these martial arts can use aggression” We’re talking about life and death scenarios, you need aggression to survive. Martial arts are very useful, but without aggression or training to be aggressive, they’re not exactly useful in self defense. There’s a reason “violence of action” is in official combat arms training doctrine.
I trained boxing and muay thai at a gym that also had Krav Maga. The Krav Maga classes made a notable point of frequently crossing over in the final half hour of class to get the students in the ring sparring with muay thai and boxing students. They could hold their own in the ring because their instructor understood the importance of pressure testing in any martial art.
As a former Krav Maga practitioner myself, I always tell people that it is a great complement for when you already know how to properly fight. Someone already used to fighting and sparring can separate better the fantasy from reality just by looking at a technique. Although a great complement, it's not great by itself. Yes it can work, but it could learn a lot from full contact sports.
@Ellen Lane Hey! Every martial art requires a certain level of conditioning and self improvement. It's only natural that if you invest in good quality training you'll get stronger and more capable over time. I would personally suggest Muay Thai/ Kickboxing. Even 6 months or one year may be enough to make you way more capable of protecting yourself and the longer you train, the better you'll get. Then I would suggest at least getting a blue or purple belt in BJJ. After that you can choose to keep training whatever you like the most. With these two combined, I personally doubt there would be any untrained individual that would be able to cause you any harm.
@@skepticalfox27 idk about anyone but certainly any other female. Against a big guy BJJ helps but let's be honest you're not really going to be able to do "fight" with them, maybe you end up in a lucky leg lock position and you can do something but if ur like a 5'6 woman a 200lb dude is just going walk through you unless you have a weapon
@@lucian5389 I get where you are coming from. I already sparred with people that were 30kg (around 60lbs?) Heavier than me and it's a pain. Not to mention the difference in height that makes it difficult to reach them. But when we are talking about someone that has trained distance control, striking and can also behave properly on the ground, the chances become way better. It's a lot easier to escape from an attacker when you know how to behave in a fight. Maybe she won't be able to defeat him in combat, but should definitely be able to find an opening to escape more easily. And I agree that a weapon (that she can properly use) should definitely be available for that extra layer of protection.
@@skepticalfox27 bjj is terrible in a street fight. Personally if I was on the ground with someone in a street fight I would go straight for the balls or eyes or windpipe, they get up ASAP, before his mate comes over to stamp on my head.
@Ellen Lane as small female against a strong male has only one chane imo. BJJ + acting. you have to set a trap for them so that you can aply a 100% choke which he can't muscle out. you wont have a chance wrestling him, you wont a have a chance punching him. a pefectly landed spinning kick to the head would also work, but if you fail you wont have another chance. so BJJ, and play along. make him feel you are playing along and when he is in a vunarable position you aply the choke.
When I was in my 20s, I studied Wing Chun for a few years, and thought I was quite good. That school closed down, and I tried another one. The very first day at the new school, the instructor asked another student to punch me in the head using any punch he wanted. I was useless in defending it, even though I knew it was coming. The next lesson, the instructor told asked another student to attack me in any way he wanted. The student kicked me in the balls. It was agony, and I had no defense against it. The instructor told me I was terrible at fighting. And he was right.
Krav Maga was originally created for military use and during my time in the army (Paratroopes) we have practiced it a lot (mainly in basic and advanced training). Thing is - what we trained during my service and what is practiced in all those weird semi-mcdojos is like night and day. our training was consistent of basically 50% using your rifle for striking (which works. trust me on that one) and the other 50% was just boosting aggressivness. that was it. no knife defenses, no weird techniques, no fancy demonstrations or anything like that. just rifle strikes and going wild so every time I see one of those weird cringy Krav Maga videos it always seems so weird to me...
Yep same here, I'm sure bad schools are out there but most schools i have visted teach authentic Krav Maga which means realistic attacks, pressure testing etc. I think people see slow demos to display students learning muscle memory and think it's a representation of the technique
The one I go to DOES teach the techniques static for the sole purpose of students being able to learn them and demonstrate them for belt tests, but the instructors also make it clear that those are merely TEMPLATES if shit actually does hit the fan. And we pressure test a lot, too. I'm very fortunate to be training there.
So true. I've trained Krav Maga for 7-8 years and I've seen many instructors and schools. I've never seen any pressure test of any Krav Maga technique. It's mostly about practicing the choreography with a compliant partner with slow speed and no real intention. We did sparring (sometimes kind of hard sparring) but then there were no Krav Maga techniques at all. I was looking for more realistic training for a long time, but I didn't find anything in the whole country. I realized that this type of training that Itay does is very very rare, and to be honest 99% of people don't want to go that way, because it's really aggressive and painful and scary, they just want to train because it's kind of exotic and fun (what is a good thing btw).
Pressure test is what differentiates a true Krav school from most schools that operate outside of Israel. I have been training for about a decade at one of the best Krav schools in Israel. Pressure test is part of technique examining in general and testing the ability of a practitioner to use it in particular.
Spent 4 years at a school and then started questioning why we teach certain techniques, especially weapons defense and disarm. I challenge 3rd degree blackbelt on why the gun disarm defense was bs. Each time I presented the weapon, I reacted and deliberately fell backwards and each time he would let go of the weapon, proving that it’s all bs. We then started pressure testing all the techniques and most all of it is not practical at all. The simple mechanics is what needs to be built on and then adapt to the fight
@@lorenzomedicci3152 every time I've questioned a technique my actual instructor told me that A: if I had done the counter-attack with full force it would have worked. B: It has been tested by IDF so it's surely working. That's true that it's very hard (I guess impossible) to simulate a life or death situation to provide a real test, but they don't even try it.
Somebody said movies, soccer moms, and businessmen learning watered-down anything. Krav Maga is designed to do something totally different. I had the fortune of training with Israeli soldiers and it hurt every day for four months.
The fact that there is a minority of credible and legit practitioners within arts like krav maga, aikdio, wing Chun speaks of the need for videos like this to be brought to light as it's the only way to grow the number of legitemate artists and popularize what actually works, awesome video as always! 💪
Every system suffers from schools who teach poorly. Glad you got to see some Krav trained effectively. Krav is essentially: Deal with the threat, Hit Hard, and get control of or exit the situation. If the technique works those skills out of order, it is leaving the Krav Maga principles as I learned them.
I've been doing krav for 2 years now. We always do pressure testing at the end of every class. I got to level 2 and we spar every other class. In fact, I dislocated my knee cap from sparring. Many people get bloody noses, kicked in the balls, we call bruises "Krav tatts", etc. One of the problems is so many people come to Krav for a month and then quit because they don't like the physicalness of it. Kind of hard to get into sparing with low-experience people, I actually came close to dying while practicing a new technique because I was put in an arm bar choke and the guy almost crushed my trachea immediately because he didn't know how to practice it safely and was being all macho. The videos you showed of bad examples are definitely bad examples I agree with you there.
Thanks for having a second look at this. I watched your first video of your criticism of Krav Maga and you weren't wrong in a lot so I just enjoyed it for what it was and moved on. I'm glad you referenced Itay Gil (his last name is pronounced 'gill' like on a fish lol) who does a lot for keeping Krav Maga progressive and effective. If you're ever in New Zealand get in touch and we can take you through some of the Krav Maga in our gym and I would love to discuss your journey of making aikido battle tested (a similar issue we face with a lot of old krav maga techniques). Me and my partner who run the gym have both trained extensively under Itay and are certified under him.
Back in day when I had a Krav Maga studio I would always lose students to the pressure drills. Only a few stayed because they were there to learn how to really defend themselves. So I basically lost those other students because they couldn't get over the uncomfortable feeling they experienced. I couldn't keep enough to stay open so I ended up closing due to lack of income leading to not being able to pay the bills. So I can understand how some studios decide to water things down in order to pay the bills. I do believe just like with any other style that there are plenty of instructors that do not understand what really goes on in a real street confrontation. I worked in a ton of night clubs in Chicago with what I will just call a very aggressive client base for years. So I always believed that would be an asset in being able to deliver quality instruction. At any rate, great video and thanks for sharing.
I love the fact you reference that UF PRO video (which is really a commercial for their outfits) which is imo the best knife defence video out there. It shows both the fact that you CAN successfully defend against a knife attack and how dangerous it is.
Yes, the difference between refined and "gross" motor movements doesn't ever seem to be addressed in self defense training, but it is so essential to understanding how to react in a given stressful situation.
I was aught Krav by a former IDF (and eventually Foreign Legion instructor) CQB instructor. It was the most intense training I have ever seen, multi mile runs, "walk in the park" drills with unknown combatives and friendlies intermixed, "red light" drills where the lights are low and very loud music and you get spun around and have to identify if its a friend or foe and react accordingly, "bull in the middle" drills where everyone just comes at you two or three at a time for 2 minutes each and you have no rest period until you fail to understand what it feels like to lose, and many other things. When I tried to teach others this way I found many of my students would quit, it was too hard, too intense, they want to say they learned a combat art but never actually learn any of it. Because of that like many people you spoke with, I just tell people to go to a MMA school or a good BJJ school instead. With that said, my kids on the other hand ... I pity the poor person who ever attacks my daughter.
Krav Maga was never designed for spacial forces on the contrary, it was designed for everyone, including non-combat female soldiers. Back at the day, Imi Lichtenfeld, the inventor of krav been asked to teach something everyone could adopt in 4-5 hours class. So with his knowledge of street fighting, wrestling, boxing and some (very limited) knowledge of judo and karate he crated a class to teach. The main focus is about awareness and avoidance of dangerous situations. The rest is about being brutal and effective in retaliation. That’s it! No gis or belts. Just a mindset and some useful tools. Everything that came later, including by Imi himself is a money grab.
I was a prison officer. We were taught the spear system created by Tony Bauer. The handiest thing I ever learned was how to position my hands for when I might flinch. Since flinch response comes first. Everything else for 1 v 1 fights I had was useless. The holds and locks were great once someone was under control but on your own in a fight it was windmills and crude BJJ and a lot of praying
As a 25 years Krav-Maga practitioner, I can say that your final conclusion is about right. There were a lot of important parts that were "lost in translation" when it was spread outside of Israel. A lot of poorly trained instructors that continued and poorly trained other instructors, as well as a lot of interpretations and later drills development that contradict with the principles of simplicity and maximum impact with minimal action.
@@magicalowl4322 if they spar they're probably legit, even if ur teaching shitty technique people will end up figuring out what works eventually if they're genuinely trying to compete with eachother
I was once attacked with a knife for real. The attack was continuous as he went left and right (attempting to cut my gut open) with serious forward pressure on me. I back stepped in succession (boxing style) as blade came so close to my abs it left superficial cuts into my skin (I was that close to being gutted). When he swung outward , I was able to do an inside to outside block but I didn’t just block - my palm gripped his wrist and I had control of knife wielding arm. Then I kicked his ass. But, strange thing is that I zoned- I had a moment when I was not in control of my moves, they were automatic (like something else was controlling me) and my perception of time actually slowed down. So, I had never trained to do that- I did train a lot though. I should be dead and had it not been for that strange “miracle“ where I zoned, I would have been gutted that day because the dude was a murderer (did that before to someone else and killed him). I really can’t explain it and would never teach it technique wise. But what came out of me worked and it was similar to the Krav Maga block you show here. Just that it ended with me grabbing his arm at wrist and then executing a punch to his face, then a low leg throw and kicking him everywhere while he was on the ground. Again, everything I did seemed like something else was controlling me perfectly. I have had similar times when I zoned (as I call it)- only when my life is in definite danger. It’s not something I can turn on and off at will.
Hi Rokas, thanks for credit us. In the end, the Krav Maga problems are the absence of: an unified international federation, a standardized syllabus, and a quality control to become an instructor. Also, sparring / randori with no cooperative partners (standing position and ground fighting) is essential, and years of regular training. The quality of KM teaching is very variable, and it should be corrected. Regards.
One thing I really liked about Krav was day one they taught you about multiple opponents and that was re-enforced through essentially all training. its something a lot of martial arts dont seem to really touch.
there is no street fights aka real fights without either 1- bigger oponnent or 2- multiple atakers.. or worse both.... so all martial arts fail specialy gayshito being exposed in the fukin floor waiting for a fatal kick in the head of any drunk that might not even know the people and just want to take advantage ... dont forget theres always drunks, people with weapons, small gangs , guys on roids and power ego trips.... i love the principal of simple and effective atack and live the danger zone thats it. stay safe and try to never go to a public gathering without at least one friend... the mental problems guys looking for a fight are looking at alone individuals with small size. oh and security guys are one of the biggest offenders with both size and numbers against people, on ego trips roided out....
No you are not wrong. The original Israeli teachers had backgrounds in actual martial arts (boxing, karate etc.) before they were enlisted to help teach the soldiers. There is no Krav Maga stance or Krav Maga clinch or whatever. You might get lucky and have a Krav guy that teaches you Boxing or Muiy Thai or what ever he actually learned. The gist of what they teach in Israel is aggresivness training. walls of death where you run through a line of people punching and kicking you and fighting your way from one end of a school bus full of soldiers to the other and you all get punished if the guy makes it through.
100% This. I trained Krav Maga in Israel and even today, everyone at my academy also trained in Judo or Kickboxing or something along those lines. Like you said, there were a lot of just basically "toughness" situational drills that were basically about getting the mindset of being super aggressive and to understand what it's like to be attacked and overwhelmed by multiple people. After doing a bunch of knife defense drills, our instructor had us do "live" sparring with rubber knives specifically to show us that everything we just learned most likely wouldn't work and you're going to get stabbed in a knife fight, but knowing something is better than knowing nothing.
There are Krav Maga stances and there are Krav Maga specific moves and techniques. Problem is, lots of instructors ditched that in favour of the "fancy" stuff just to market and make money. Actual serious Krav Maga teaches you even how to mantain proper balance. Unfortunately, there are lots of jokers out there and these jokers can actually get naive people killed. I mean, some "instructors" don't even bother to check if their students can throw a punch or even handle the pain of hitting something hard like a human head.
@@Jaeger_89 Exactly. And damn right there is a krav maga stance. It’s called the general outlet position. It’s probably the most utilitarian stance for general unarmed combat there is. Nothing fancy, just practical.
I'm from Israel and I did a lot of krav maga in my teens and In my military service. Sadly Itay's type of training is only present in military/police or security guards training. And In my humble opinion, krav maga doesn't teach you how to fight but to buy some time to draw a weapon or run away. Krav maga was made to teach basic combat and survival skills for soldiers and law enforcers in the least time possible due to very limited training time but somewhere along the line when krav maga become commercialized it became unnecessarily complicated to sell itself for the general public but in return lost its effectiveness.
לא יכולתי לנסח את זה טוב יותר אבל לך תשכנע עכשיו אנשים שמה שמתאמנים בצה"ל (שזה בגדול תן מכות חזק ומהר) שונה בתכלית ממה שנדד אי שם לחו"ל והפך לסוג של בדיחה...
Krav Maga taught in the Israeli army, is very different from what is taught in mcdojo’s. I had a conversation about this with a woman who was in the Israeli army, and now works security. She told me all the Krav Maga she learned was centered around getting to, or maintaining control of her firearm. The biggest threat she faced in her position is someone taking her firearm away and using it on her or others. Different branches of the Israeli military learn different techniques and tactics based on the situations they are likely to encounter. Just like any other military. Krav Maga literally translates to close combat in Hebrew. This is one reason it is so exploitable by mcdojo’s.
At least in my gym, we always had sparring/kickboxing/grappling days like any mma gym would have. All techniques we did we were required to do under full resistance/contact, otherwise you haven't learned it properly. I think quality control is the largest issue.
This channel speaks the truth of most martial arts. This reminds me of my karate days. We were told all kinds of crap about our new found superpowers. Nobody else ever talks about the fact that most skills are taught against cooperative and paralized opponents.
@@AugustMMA i disagree with most of what's he says. That being said awful instructor is awful, be ir KM or kickboxing or any style. I think he Made his mind by watching UA-cam, and also has a first world bias
@@wilt88 Ok i somewhat agree with you but i still think lots of his point are valid. Also, i'd like to hear what he says you think is wrong it would make for an interesting conversation. Also it helped me understand the history behind it allot better as well.
Any modern army that engage in a lot of hand to hand combat must be a shitty one. Yeah IDF know how to fight, so they definitely won't be so incompetent that many IDF soldiers resort to brawling in a real battlefield
The best knife attack defense video I ever saw was posted by a Marine and it lasted a whopping 20 seconds. The attacker pulled a knife and the Marine turned and ran away. It was posted as a joke, but the best way to win a fight against an opponent with an edged weapon is to not get into one.
That high stress scenario training you talk about simulating real self-defense situations is what Krav Maga has been known for in my part of the world. I was shocked and surprised (and to be honest a bit sad) over the bad rep Krav Maga has gained... But I guess the more people that do it the more watered downs it becomes - especially if money is involved as well... Like your conclusion though :-)
Krav Maga's more complex techniques can work, however they would require years and years of proper training (Lichtenfeld/Lichtenstein level), which would include situations and stress training. The biggest problem I see is that many people want to teach the fancy stuff to students only to look good. In self-defense, many times the simple stuff can be enough. Krav Maga has one very important thing that most martial arts don't focus which is preparing you for a real danger scenario. Everything counts, from the distance and awareness you have of your opponent and surroundings to the very way you are even standing on your feet. Too bad most places nowadays only seem to focus on the marketable aspect of it. That can happen with any martial art, but it's quite noticeable with Krav Maga because of the prospect of "wow I can learn to defend against a knife/gun". That is completely irresponsible and can get people killed. Having trained it for years I can say: I think Krav Maga is both the greatest self-defense martial art and the worst. It all depends on who's teaching and how. Too bad that for the average person it's hard to distinguish a good martial arts dojo from a bad one.
This is an example of the difference between Military and LE Krav, and civilian Krav. When it gets watered down to be taught to the public, and especially the American public, the point of the system is lost. Krav was truly meant for war, not fitness.
This is so true. As a black belt Jiu jitsu (together with 10 years Muay Thai) i joined the police force. My first real streetfight situation was an eyeopener. The chaos and the adrealine is something you can't train for, you have to experience it and learn from it. Later i was 6 years in the squad team and i learned that "keep it simpel" is the best advice you can get. In real life threatening situations, houve have to end the situation as quick as possible with minimum risk for yourself. Go for the throat, the balls, the knees etc. and immobilize as quick as possibleand if that's not possible, keep your distance.
This pretty much boils down, from my experience, to whether we're talking about "real" Israeli Krav Maga or about the watered down version, seen in many places around the world. Krav Maga is a tried, true and well tested method developed for the IDF and is the only martial art taught here. During training, we pressure test everything, we run complex, real scenario drills, simulations and fighting with everything we learn and it is tested by fire every single day on the streets by military and law enforcement across the country. This mentality is preserved in most civilian Krav Maga places around Israel. I can't attest as to why the system is so broken abroad but I think a lot of it might be related to the World Krav Maga organization watering down the system and to how most schools around the world simply can't even begin to justify stress testing their training. Israel is a country in conflict. You deal with this reality on a daily basis, there have been terror attacks going on constantly for the past almost 30 years, we have mandatory military service, as a practitioner you understand the value of learning true self defence and preparing as much as possible for when reality strikes. On the other hand, I find it difficult to imagine any soccer moms in Denver going for their Krav Maga self defense classes and accepting training with a big sweaty man seriously trying to stab the shit out of them for about 2 hours every week.
I'm a martial arts teacher in Israel and I don't teach Krav Maga... Not sure what you're talking about. Also I've seen BS Krav Maga taught in civilian schools here too
A big problem with Krav Maga is the lack of consistency between techniques and the way it's taught. Some instructors incorporate boxing and grapling, some instructors advise against punching and grappling and instead teach palm strikes. Some instructors teach only low front kicks and knees, some instructors teach high and spin kicks. Some schools are run in an informal style, some operate like Dojos complete with belt systems. Why even have a name for it at this point?
Excellent video. I trained with Spartans Academy of Krav Maga for a few years in the U.K. I think the trainers were excellent and the techniques and scenarios you described were taught, but full pressure testing was missing. I also took Bjj for a short time, and when my Krav class introduced a bit of ground work I wiped the floor with everyone despite having only a white belt with one stripe from Bjj. I realised that I hadn't really learned anything in 3 years of Krav, but did learn applicable skills from only a few months of Jujitsu. I left Krav that day and started Muay Thai. It's a shame because I always felt that Krav could and should be more effective in real life. On a side note I attended 2 of Itay Gils seminars through the Krav school and he was indeed very very good. Ex Israeli army I believe, and it shows. If only more schools followed his example...
Problem appears to be that krav maga schools tend to attract people who don't really want to learn to fight. So the schools water it down to learning a set of moves, a bit like kata just with more aggression. Martial arts classes that spar don't retain so many new starters.
After 13 years of JJJ, I took 2 years of KM with an alumn of founder Imi Lichtenfeld. These guys are the real deal. The ambitious commercialization of KM all over the world has its perverse effects. Even with first-generation alumns, there's debate on who holds the truth, some schools took liberties and augmented the curriculum with techniques borrowed from other martial arts. The classes I attended were demanding physically and mentally even though I could tell it was watered down for civilians. 😅 The process of increasing self-toughness is not enjoyable for a wide portion of the population, i.e. potential (dearly) paying students. Telling the good from the bad schools is very difficult for the uninitiated.
I have studied Krav Maga previously, when I worked in security as a door staff member and it most definitely improved my situational awareness. Plus I learned how to apply several variations of choke and even evade being choked out. However, by far the best form of self defence I learned was Combat Ju-Jitsu, which combined effective striking and grappling techniques in one package. I am therefore, surprised this form of marital art, fighting system is not mentioned much at all? Both Krav Maga and Combat Ju-Jitsu served me well whilst working on the door. I was able to apply the more basic short form techniques and the situational awareness it provided me with was invaluable. Personally, I don't think there is one Golden fighting system to learn as almost all lose their form in high pressured situations anyhow, as you correctly state. Just prepares the individual for them, in a awareness and confidence aspect, in my anecdotal experience and formed opinion upon this.
Good overview of findings. I did Krav for a short time, had no issue with the conditioning and they even had us practice basic punches and kicks. There was even sparring sometimes but I felt like I would have gotten more from it if we’d done more stress testing and less form work.
Having done some IKMF and TKM, it's incredibly gratifying to see Itay Gil show up. I love TKM. That said, the quality of training, even within the same dojo, is incredibly dependent on the trainer and participants.
I took a weekend training with Rory Miller: he mixed Krav Maga with what worked for him in prison and police work. I didn't agree with everything (I think more kicks tend to work against untrained people), but he basically said "You're going to get hit so get in close, hit hard, use elbows, block, etc. He also used classic security moves like hand under the opponent's nose from behind, knee on downed subject etc. He also moved very quickly.
Excellent video. I appreciate the hard work you put into researching what wasn't working, as well as what does work in different Krav Maga schools. I have been a Krav Maga Instructor for 5 years, and have had to abandon and or modify several techniques for the same reasons you mentioned in your video. Thank you again for your hard work and un bias martial arts journalism. Shalom and God bless!
Jake from Armchair Violence has what I think is a really good central point about this: Krav Maga is not a fighting system with a syllabus of techniques, it's a philosophy with a set of principles. That makes choosing to train in Krav unreliable even compared to arts like aikido because there's no consistency. To illustrate my point, if you go to a boxing class you can be fairly certain you'll be taught a jab, cross and hook, and you'll likely be taught them under at least the pressure of sparring. If you go to a BJJ class you'll be taught the guard and an armbar, and you'll learn to apply them in rolling. If you go to aikido you'll be taught kote gaeshi and tegatana, and you'll probably only learn to apply them in low-pressure randori. On the other hand, if you go to a Krav class, you might be taught any, all or none of those, under a wildly varying amount of pressure and anywhere from no protective gear to full armour, depending on the background of the instructor, because *calling it Krav Maga only means you're teaching according to Krav principles*. To be clear, this isn't to say that there aren't good and bad instructors and places from which to learn other martial arts, but the problem is endemic to Krav because it explicitly has no standard curriculum or training methods.
Krav works. Ive been in a fair amount of violent situations, from hands to knives, sticks, bats. I trained in krav after my rowdy days, but i did end up using it twice in real life. And because of my life experiences, i was able to evaluate krav when learning it. #1 it is pretty much mma, with some unique principles and techniques, and some dirty fighting. It includes boxing, wrestling, bjj, muai tai, judo. Its sort of bruce lees philosophy, it takes what works from those systems. #2 u must find a good gym/dojo, i too have seen alot of nonsense online that does not accuratley represent krav. And of course, like any system, there is some stuff that isnt practical in real life but most of it is good stuff. #3 there is no best system. But if i needed to train some1 to be effective at protecting themselves in a fairly short amount of time, krav is the best at that mission, IMO. Or any good combatives really. It relies on principles, and each principle will have multiple possible techniques. It also heavily emphasizes agression and blitzkreig which r both valuable in violence. #4 we have a problem in our society today, weve gotten soft. Most men below 30 in the west, def in America atleast, have not experienced violence, maybe 1 or 2 school fights, maybe. So no1 really knows what works well, so there is alot of nonsense out there. Its like the US army b4 the GWOT, ppl had all kinds of things they thought worked, until war kicked off, then they realized most of it was garbage, and honed their craft. #5 Krav works. But to break it down to basics, u need good striking like boxing, a basic understanding of takedowns and grappling, wrestling/bjj/judo, and some weapons defenses. If u can get good at those basics and have the right mindset, you would b able to defeat most ppl u come across. Its a holistic system, u also need the situational awareness, the mindset, u need to b able to flip that switch and let the killer out on the drop of a hat. And u need to spar, u have to spar, u need to know what it feels like to have punches coming at your face, and know what it feels like to be hit and to hit. #6 lastly, u need speed and violence of action. I used this constantly in my situations and seen it b used alot. I use this anology, imagine if your opponent had no concept of fireworks. U hand him a boom stick, tell him to light the fuse, he watches the fuze burn, it explodes. By the time he realizes that it exploded, the damage is already done. U need to b that boom stick, by the time he realizes u attacked him, he should b on his back, choking on his teeth. No warning, no talking, def no shoving. To him, it seems like a honey badger just ripped into him with an explosion of violence. To u, everything is controlled but done very quickly and aggressively. Also remember, that the same can b done to u. And if your dealing with some1 who is experienced, they will employ this tactic, so u must b ready. This comment is already way to long, im gnna make a channel and share my experiences soon. Im not john wick but i believe i have some valuable knowledge that is needed today.
Sadly your criticism is very true for 99% of Krav maga schools. There’s a fight mission video where they travel to Israel, I think it’s episode 09 and they show what real Krav Maga looks like. I have practiced Krav Maga for multiple years but stopped because I realized not only am I not really learning to defend myself, I would also loose in a fight to pretty much anyone with a tenth of my experience but in an actual martial art, which was very disappoint of course. I now switched to primarily thaiboxing but if you practice Krav Maga the way that it is intended, with actual sparring and no fear of getting hurt, with actual coaches ideally in a recognised school in Israel, then it really is unbelievably effective. Unfortunately people take the „hype“ and the name and try to make it international with out taking much else with it besides that.
This and along with Ramsey Deweys latest video as kind of opened my eyes a tad to something that I hadn't considered as a gap in my training. Which I'm going to fill. Though I may have to wait for the weather to warm up (its still pretty cold here in England) I'd like to get some rubber knifes, baseball bats and some sparring gear. Then get some of the lads I used to hang around with, that are street thugs with no training. Give them these items and just let them come at me. No training on their part. Completely unpredictable in ways of movement and approach. Then film the results and see how I do. I do agree its a gap in combat sports.
Krav Maga always struck me as one of those martial arts that is 9 parts hype and 1 part substance, and it looks really good at seminars and in movies, but very little of it is actually functional when compared to reality (which is kind of ironic considering how its apologists will always claim it's the "most effective"). It's got all the same problems that a lot of traditional martial arts teaching methods have, but its apologists are often very resistant to accepting that because of the (typically undeserved) hype that surrounds Krav Maga that has just entered into the public consciousness. It's probably the same story with anything else: it comes down to whether the instructor is actually teaching in a realistic fashion. Krav Maga is one of those situations where you don't really know what you're getting; you might be getting a competent trainer who will actually be teaching you to be defending yourself, or you might just be getting enthusiastic cosplay. That's true or martial arts in general, but Krav Maga apologists need to acknowledge that Krav Maga isn't immune to it. And if they think Krav Maga DOESN'T have those short comings, then they're probably going to a dojo that has them.
@@hank-uh1zq Don't play stupid word games. It just makes you look like an idiot. Martial arts isn't limited to sports and "measuring yourself". Fighting styles used for self defense also count as martial arts. Hell, martial arts were originally used for warfare and killing other human opponents. So yes, Krav Maga is a martial art. Deal with it. The question as to whether it has real world efficacy remains an open one, however. So far as I can tell the "objective" of krav maga is to hype itself up on the internet.
Many years ago I was trained in MILITARY Krav Maga, the full course (ex any specialist or instructor training) was 42 hour syllabus, that included contact training and the basic scenario training . Practice after this was at least 50% full one scenario training just like all other military training. We had simulated lift spaces, bus/coach, cafe even a small dance floor, all for running scenarios inc team fights. The problem is the civilianised rubbish with belts, sparing and tournaments with rules. ( In our training full force, joint and neck attacks were banned, although drilled. ) All self defence should include contact and scenario training
Well, krav maga was based on wrestling and boxing and later incorporated more moves from other systems as it developed. It's no surprise that it looks like them: it is them. At least if it's what the Isrealies actually train in anyway. I don't know what any of the bad examples are from, but having been to a number of krav classes, I never saw anything like that. Seems like some people are just creating bullshido and calling it krav maga because it sounds sexy.
Indeed. Lots of stupid marketers out there. There are plenty of effective techniques in Krav Maga, but none are to be taken/taught lightly, since executing them poorly can get you hurt/kiled.
My late father-in-law was a Welsh combat instructor in WW2. He said the rifle (SMLE) was key. Long range with the bayonet and in close the rifle to block, and strike and the butt to crush.
Your conclusion is right: it depends on schools and instructors. It also depends on the person which has to use the technique in real life, on the threat himself ... My instructor says "If you see a knife yust run away!", but if you can't he shows you how to ( try to) survive with the less damage. We learn to de-escalate conflicts; we learn to check the environment, recognise dangers and avoid them; we do sparring; we learn defense against multiple attackers; we learn the techniques first in a "static" way, then in the end the aggressor will try to do everything to hurt you; we use improvisation sometimes, the instructor says "no matter if it is exactly what I teach you, if it works is good!"; we simulate stress situations as real as possible: this is usefull, this is why I learn KM even if I know that is not perfect as real threats are harder than simulations.
A legit Krav Maga gym imo should have the following -Trainers with credentials from Israel -Offer some martial art like Muay Thai to give people a good foundation on the fighting that has to be applied in the kv system. -Have the appropriate equipment to do pressure testing techniques. Also people forget KV is supposed to be more like out of the fighting that works, how would you apply that to a self defense situation. For example in a self defense situation you wouldn't go for a take down or a clinch if you had the space to run, or wouldn't try a sub if there is no reason for you to need to immobilize the aggressor.
In my Krav Maga class we practice defense against a knife attacker. First thing we practiced - run away! Dead serious. Your training partner pulled a knife, you bolted. Best self defense, have the presence of mind to get out of there! After that all our knife drills were very straight forward, not fancy at all, mostly blocking getting stabbed, trying to get control of their wrist while simultaneously nailing them in the nads. None of this ninja-looking stuff. Our instructors even told us - if you don't run away, you will get cut. There is no way around it. So really don't fight unless you are cornered and the only alternative is being stabbed to death. Even one of our instructors got jumped by a guy with a knife. He knocked the guy out but has a big scar on his fore arm where he took a slash trying to get past him (he was cornered on a subway platform).
In the IDF the basic Krav Maga moves are how to use the standard IDF weapon(M4 or Tavor mostly) when you run out of ammunition, and yes it is effective. it works since the assumption is that most enemy soldiers are clueless in martial arts so Krav Maga would give an IDF soldier the edge in an unarmed struggle.
The best self defense is to not get into trouble in the first place and if you get into trouble run away while you still can.😉 In all other cases get your self a gun and shoot the bastard!🤣👌
1st of all ALL legitimate Krav Maga schools will have pressure testing, and scenarios with multiple attackers once you reach an intermediate level. 2nd Krav Maga techniques are gleaned from Wrestling, Judo, Boxing, Karate, Jiu Jitsu, and Muay Thai adapted for real life fight situation. It is NOT made for sport, or the ring. A boxer will be able to outbox, a wrestler out wrestle, a Karate fighter out kick a Krav Maga practioner in the ring, because it is for street self defense. 3rd MMA fighters have to master ring fighting but do not practice the techniques Krav Maga uses (most are illegal in the ring), and Krav Maga does not practice fighting for multiple rounds against well trained fighters in the ring.....so comparing the two is stupid. One is for quickly disabling an attacker, the other for competition against professional fighters.
Krav Maga Caveira is the real deal. It's a great adaptation of many techniques into the reality of Brazil. Brazil does not have wars in it's territory. Self-defense there is all about urban combat.
Great analysis. I also came to the same conclusion that pressure testing was necessary, after doing some taichi and aikido, just like you. Except you went all the way, and had the courage to test your aikido, even going as far as closing your school and trying out mma. I haven't watched your story about your journey but I'm going to definitely watch your videos, hopefully you have your story there somewhere!
I'm attending KM trainings and my friends do too, in different schools in the same city. Our experience is completely different. They practice many scripted situations, they are educated how to avoid conflict , how to escape from a situation, and so on. My school does it totally differently. no education how to avoid conflict, no scripted situations, just straight boxing, then kicking, then some graspling, shadow boxing, laps, bags, later sparring. It seems to me kinda like MMA a little. To be honest i like it more than what they do.
I understand the point raised, one of the videos you show is of Krav Maga Global, I have been practicing it for more than 5 years and the difference I see is mainly that always, but always you have to defend and attack at the same time, making the momentum of the attacker is used against him, we also do training under stress with shields and closed eyes, making you understand what it is like to be attacked regardless of the circumstance. It is true that there are moves that look "artistic" but we were always taught not to let the attacker have a chance to react. One detail I agree with, a knife is very difficult to defend and even more so if the person using it has some experience.
Great video! As Krav Maga became more commercialized, people have dumb down the moves and made them less functional so more variety of people can train in it. Krav Maga isn't about what schools are good or bad - it's generally boils down to which organization is good or bad. The Israeli military, Krav Maga Global, LOTAR, and a few others train closer to the original version of Krav Maga (non-commercialized version of Krav Maga) which centered around simple techniques that were extensively stress and pressure tested. Newer organizations don't want to spar, don't want to pressure or stress test because the soccer moms, kids, etc won't sign up - it's all about money. It has become the cross-fit of martial arts - pump out schools as fast as possible (like the IKMF). Additionally, 75% of Krav Maga is just Muay Thai, BJJ, Wrestling, some Judo and only 25% are modified Japanese JuJutsu or original Krav Maga techniques. It was created to get someone (a new soldier) with zero combat training to basic fighting compacity within a short period of time. It's not made to make you into a MMA fighter. Most Krav Maga practitioners generally use Krav Maga as a introduction to martial arts and after about a year, move on to combat sports. They will go back to Krav Maga for self-defense and scenario based training (I followed the same path and currently use it for that reason too).
I train Krav Maga and at my Dojo they put emphasis on the following prerequesites to learn KM: - The curriculum is greenlighted by the International Krav Maga Foundation. We have direct ties with Israels best instructors and practitioners. The men that train us here had to get their testing done in Israel itself before they were even allowed to teach and call themselves experts. All of our instructors are also black belts in many a different martial arts so they have experience beyond just KM. The lads that train me for instannce are black belts in: jiujitsu, judo, pencan silat or taekwondo. (So they know self defence from more than just one angle so I believe their arguments and my own experience when stating that Krav Maga can be useful.) - Make your attacks realistic: if you punch for training simulations: try to hit your target and use recoil. (Ofcourse you start slowing and build up with beginners) No one learns to deflect strikes if they miss in the first place because you are aiming at thin air. Chokes, mounts, headlocks, bearhugs or any raw type of physical agression must be done with 'force'. If you are not really strangling someone and your target can escape by just stepping backwards, you are not teaching them anything. (Naturally you make sure you are not permanently damaging someone.) Stuff like this really reminds you how difficult it can be to escape let's say a rear naked choke and how little time you have. But it adds allot to learning how to fight if you ask me. - We have scenario training: in bars, on the streets or simulating loud clubs in sports halls (big crowd, loud music, disco lights). We do multiple attackers vs 1 combat drills, defending a VIP that is under attack (your buddy that doesn't do anything) and sparring to learn how to deal with pressure etc. We deliberately add stuff like being verbally agressive towards someone as well. Not just start pushing someone, scream at them and insult them at the same time. Other examples include that while you are sparring with someone 1 vs 1 another person can come in from behind to start and choke you. Or while you are trying to release yourself you can still be attacked with punches/kicks from other kravists. They put allot of emphasis on scanning your environment: how many people are there, don't get isolated or cornered and always look for an exit. - Krav Maga focuses on easy to employ movements because under stress you small motor skills go straight out of the window. Most techniques are simultaneous attacks and defences and can be performed under 2 seconds. So no elaborate 20 steps nonsense to 'end a fight quickly'. I have a background in judo and jiujitsu and I am convinced the Krav techniques are cleaner, faster and more painful than any of the self defences I was taught in those other schools of fighting. (Not saying that judo and jiujitsu are bad) I also like to add that Krav doesn't reinvent the wheel. There are kicks, punches, armbars, chokes, releases and throws that come straight from boxing, muay thai, wrestling and jiujitsu. For instance the before mentioned curriculum has techniques like roundhouse kicks, side/back/low kicks, uppercuts, jabs, hooks, knee strikes and many more that are used in other martial arts. What it does add though is a pinch of realism that you can expect on the streets: people wearing shoes, people having hidden weapons, multiple opponents and not obeying any strict rules. So in Krav we target weakspots on the body where other defence systems won't allow it. Think about the groin, eyes, throat etc so you will have your own tools to fight back. So during sparring you are allowed to kick someone in the nuts however most of it looks arguably very similar to MMA. I like to think that krav maga teaches you allot about fighting and gives you many tools to defend yourself. What makes it unique is that it doesn't shy away from using dirty fighting and does allot with you alone vs many. (It's scary how heavy it is to fight 1 vs 5 for just 2 minutes, you will be out of breath) Even Bas Rutten himself said that he would defend himself in a barfight by starting out with a headbutt: no fancy stuff just let them know you are not messing around. Sports fighting is not the same as street fighting. Krav leans towards the latter that's why there are no medals to win in tournaments. The downside is I have constantly blue spots and scratches all over my body. I am thankful for the protection we wear like tonques, mouth guards, shin guards and sometimes MMA or boxing gloves. But I think it proves that we try to make our defensive tactcs realistic. Hope that adds my two cents. Thanks allot for the video mate! As a final note I would like to add that all the things you mentioned in your thesis apply to any martial art in general. You can find plenty of videos on UA-cam about instructions and techniques from other disciplines were during the demonstration the opponent offers little to no resistance and people just standing there waiting to be 'taken down'. Does this mean jiujitsu is shit now as well? You can easily manipulate footage to make a fool out of any martial art or make anyone looks like a total beginner if you just focus on the bad parts. Just search for any judo/sambo video where they teach you a throw. No one is offering resistance there because they are for showing the technique for starters. Doesn't mean judo doesn't work as a sport in a 1 vs 1 duel where both are struggling each other. Doesn't mean you can take someone out on the street by throwing them over your shoulder on the pavement. How is this for proof that Krav Maga works as a system: in my country they teach it to police officers, security guards and soldiers too. Hell, some of my instructors are directly hired by local law inforcement to teach some krav maga. Those professionals share plenty of examples of encounters at the job where they succesfully employed krav maga to keep themselves safe. So can that prove the system has it's uses? Or do a few internet videos make the whole thing a scam?
At least in my federation, FEKM, and the video misses some important points: -the knife defense technique (indeed all the weapon techniques) includes a simultaneous strike/series of strikes (including groin) intended to stun and therefore allow some time for escape or joint manipulation. Of course doing a wrist lock is not going to be very effective cold, but in the wake of a boot point to the testicles... -sparring is routine, mandatory and includes hard sparring for the level tests; -the sparring includes standard MMA style but also groin strikes and on the ground we lose the gloves and go for eyes, groin etc. and includes all illegal moves from MMA (you fight like you train, right?) -Obviously techniques "working" is not a binary... "working" in Krav means that the initial attack was mitigated and you have inflicted pain or damage in return and you are in a better position (posture, body position, etc) afterwards than before -we absolutely pressure test/scénario train on a regular basis (blind siding, multiple attackers, backed into corner, multiple attacks in series, use of objects and obstacles, etc.) Finally, Krav Maga is a series of principles more than techniques: Develop aggressive attitude once the first attack happens; simultaneous defense and strike to invert the dynamic of the altercation asap; prioritize "dirty" attacks to eyes, throat, groin, knee, etc. Prioritize shortest path of motion; Objective is always neutralize to escape (not look pretty, get involved in some sort of stupid dominance display, etc.). Krav/self defense gyms also attract many people with NO martial arts or sport experience (often women/bullied teens/nerdy guys) who are looking to develop confidence. Going from a reaction of "shell up, give up your back and hope it ends soon" to "stay out of strike range, get your hands up, block a haymaker/react to a choke, inflict some degree of damage then GTFO or square up in a proper fighting stance with basic foot work and jab/cross/front kicks and go for the throat eyes and groin if you can" is a HUGE step forward for the majority of beginning Krav students.
I’m still pretty used to Krav Maga, but I’ve loved my pressure/stress tests because it allows me to think on my feet! The baton/ knife arm grapple is pretty helpful and have noticed that I don’t think about it when we’re doing stress tests
Rokas, I appreciate your chronicle of your journey. I am 65 and have done a similar one: Kempo, Judo, JKD, TKD, and now Krav. My age forces me to limit combat sports and focus on self defense. My krav class seems to be good - based on this video. Thank you for your work.
I had the honour to train in a group with a well rounded martial artists who had a Krav Maga/Military Background. Was a great time: We were doing stuff like being attacked with a takedown while doing light boxing sparring with a third person. But I think the training just worked because all of us had trained different martial arts before.
My Krav Maga instructor always showed us techniques, and told us that, there is no way we will be able to do the whole series of attacks. He always told us that he is just showing us how that all the moves can flow for practice. Even for knife defence, he always reiterates that u will get cut. We are taught to kick to just create distance, not to win the fight, just enough to run or get help.
The reason why most schools do not do the high pressure training, is because they are there to make money. Top end fight clubs push hard, and there is a very small group of people who are willing to train that hard, and willing to take injury. In many of the schools I went to, you would have to get to the advanced levels, or take special 'fight' classes to get that high pressure, but most schools make their money on the basics. Levels 1-5 (out of like 20 levels). As much as we want to think of ourselves as 'fighters', we still need to understand that those schools, are SCHOOLS first. It's not a charity. They need to make money, so they need a wide pool of people, if they are not the top 10 fight clubs with their names on the butts of UFC champs. The instructors even say they have to appeal to the street fighter, the ring fighter, as well as the soccer mom, and the programmer who are just looking for something other than running on a treadmill. In my experience, the krav schools do a lot more hitting, than the karate, TKD, and KungFu schools, but a lot less than the MT, BJJ, and MMA schools. The difference is that some are sports, and some are self defense. Even the boxing schools have 2 different styles. One for the Cardio Box, and one for the people who are looking to ring fight. Jumping to the beat, will get your ass beat, in the ring. Also, You can't kick someone in the groin a bunch of time in class, and expect them to come back tomorrow. When I trained in Krav, they used the electric shock knives, as well as ones that had ink on the 'blades' in the advanced classes.
It can depend. If the knife attacker is using the knife out of fear and doesn't know how to fight with a knife, the techniques will work. If its a guy who knows how to hold a knife and is specifically trained in knife fighting then no way. In terms of general self defence any knowledge is better than no knowledge. Even if you take the learning all the vulnerable spots on a person and can remember them in the heat of the moment then it's going to help
As an instructor what we do is use fully resistance and sparring. We use controlling techniques, striking techniques, take downs, add 100% resistance to have someone stop the attacker.
My 2 cents: Krav Maga is not a martial art, it is a type of close combat. It is about attacking as defence (or attacking as attack). If not done aggressively to hurt the other, it is just not effective. It's about survival and not defence; about "sometimes risking breaking your arm, but stop a crowbar hitting your face". The fear in a real fight enhances it. That can only be well trained in (almost) military environments. Also, in a sport-situation you are not allowed do use like 60% of the techniques; as eye, airpipe, ears and all other sensitive areas are not allowed to be targeted. Same thing as the Spetsnaz Systema, as a "sport" or "martial art" it is just funny, but if you are in a dark street in a war zone, the physical training, basic techniques and conditioned attitude do the job. KM is about running to the fight when needed (because you must and your officers have an objective to meet) and not about points or least-damage. End of the day, whatever the style, it is always about stamina, speed, some experience, grappling, kicking and boxing. May (if your case is right) your brothers & sisters have your back and be with more as the other guys.
My personal tip is to look out for a gym that has krav maga and mma so you can test your moves on resisting fighters. My krav maga teacher was also the mma teacher and we often sparred with them. Funnily enough our teacher always told us: "the only difference between krav maga and mma is in krav maga u learn to run away" Seriously we learned to run away from every position xD
Brilliant and couldn't agree more. Your conclusions apply to most martial arts, particularly classical martial arts in which pressure training is rarely incorporated. I think it's time for all martial artists to be honest with themselves and analyse what works within their systems. I don't think training in anything has necessarily been a wasted experience. However, it is time to waken up and think hard about what you've learned over the years and then refine this into something useful in the real world. This is my current journey. Sometimes slightly painful but always best to be honest with oneself. ATVB
I am happy to say that my krav maga trainer is a good one. Krav maga is all about survival mainly in street fights or the army. The first thing he always says is that if you have the option, you should avoid confrontation and prefferably, run away. You should only fight when it's absolutely necessary. When first showing us techniques, he will do everything very slowly to make sure we understand and then progressively add more pressure and speed. We also have at least 3 spars with different people for a training session. After every technique and slight beating our partners, we have to quickly change the place we are standing at and look around for other enemies. Then as soon as your partner stands up, you take the role of a bad guy. He prepares us for beating others and being hit and always says, that our brains work different under pressure and stress, so because this isn't the Type of stress in the studio, he makes us extremely fatigued, to the point where we cant even sit without our muscles shaking. I am very happy to have met this man :)
As a Krav Maga instructor, I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments expressed in this video. Several years back, I made a deliberate choice to undergo training in BJJ, wrestling, and boxing separately, integrating these disciplines into my Krav Maga sessions. It's crucial to remember that Krav Maga is fundamentally founded on the principles of boxing, wrestling, BJJ, as well as knife and stick fighting. Regrettably, it seems that many instructors tend to overlook the importance of crafting sessions that reflect real-world situations. This oversight can unfortunately apply to instructors across various martial arts disciplines. When you're an instructor, you're shouldering the responsibility of teaching individuals how to defend themselves in high-pressure, true-to-life scenarios.
As Jason Hanson points out, Krav is very good if you have a short period of time to give people what they need to survive in the field-be it the military or, in his case, the CIA. I was impressed that Itay's techniques build on the basics, such as the "Seatbelt," which is reassuring to a new student in Krav. Krav will always have a lot of elements of other martial arts since it was created by grabbing what was already "on the shelf" from existing martial arts.
I did some KAPAP, like 60-70 hours in total. If you cannot learn the basis of a technique within 20 minutes in slow training, it's not worth going for it. The mindset of KAPAP (and in that sense of Krav Maga, too) is that you either make yourself an escape route or end the fight within the first 20-30 seconds. That's the difference to other fighting styles, where you would start to dance around each other to search for holes and land good hits. Hence, the one good example you showed, with the instructor jumping into the swinging enemy, no matter whether getting hit or not, is kind of representive. 100% out or 100% in. Some of the more "technical" exercises are trained to encounter threats that might not be lethal (e.g. your drunk best friend messing around a little bit too much; or you are working for law enforcement). You don't want to break them all bones, but rather bring them to the ground in a safe and controlled manner. That's when you might work with some leverages on joints and arms, but that's not what most of that self defense technique is. It's just a sub category of inventory. When you train KAPAP and you do a kind of critical scenario, with the opponent really wanting to harm you, you either make yourself an escape route or you go all-in. We even went so far to train disarming while having someone shoot a prop gun right behind us to train us letting go of the shock and start acting, no matter the loud sound. You would start the movement slowly without any resistance and then round after round, the training partner would resist more and more, or you have to sprint first before doing the movement, or you start from the floor, doing pushups or whatever and your opponent stands fresh and recovered a few feet away more ready than you, and sometimes you would have to fight one or more opponents at the same time, trying to withstand the constant barrage of hits and fresh enemies for a certain amount of time. Technique is obviously one part of all fight styles, but I guess KAPAP shouldn't be too concerned about 100% execution perfection, except for the gun disarming techniques maybe. Of course, KAPAP/Krav Maga has also been turned down for audience that wants less aggression. A friend of mine did KAPAP in another town and her training was by far not that distincted and was mostly technical as your first video examples showed.
Why don't people try to seize the knife attacker's knife weilding hand/wrist with two hands, then twist the arm either clockwise or counterclockwise and control/lock the knife 🔪 weilding arm appendage???
Somehow you never seem to realise that of course sparring will always look like sparring in the styles that focus on sparring, but that is not because that is the only thing that works, it is just the only thing that works in sparring. You can't use a technique meant to kill in sparring, because no one will want to do it with you.
The real problem with krav maga, is that it trains to kill, which for an average person is hard to do, an average person doesn't want to hurt another person more than necessary.
Learning proper etiquette for sparring and having a respectful bond with your partner are a necessity for anyone hoping to be prepared for real life danger. My friends and I use weapons of various kinds, and we often get injured. All part of training.
I have trained in the uk with KMG and as well as the general weekly classes, they hold specialised workshops which are more extreme and do apply pressure testing. Highly recommend.
In my Krav Maga classes we had a little bit of training in technique. Usually the first 10 minutes. Then repeated controlled exercises with the technique for about 20 minutes. The last 30 minutes would be full blown stress training with a mix of sparring 1 on 1, 1 against multiple attackers and hooligan type brawl with 2 groups of maybe 5 against each other. They would also put up chairs and tables to simulate a bus or a bar type situation. There would also be a lot if training in keeping distance, how to move arround multiple attackers and getting up from the ground and run. It might not be perfect for all situations, but I think it was as good as you can make an organised self defense program for regular people.
Any time I hear "complex moves" in the context of Krav Maga, I cringe a little. In the Krav Maga training I had, the focus was simple techniques applied with controlled aggression. Lots of sparring, lots of force on force, and an emphasis that Krav wasn't about having a skill to skill fighting competition with your attacker, but how to get out of a bad (and unavoidable) situation quickly. If you have no choice but to fight, these are the risks, here are some solutions to get you through it. One good way our instructors made it clear that there are no "series of moves" that always work" is having us gradually increase the amount of force being used in any given scenario, and having us switch up training partners at some point. What was working with this guy, won't work at all with the next guy and so on. I've definitely seen some of the more questionable Krav Maga training online, and I'm lucky that the place I used to train did none of that nonsense.
What martial art would you like me to analyze next? Let me know in the comments
FMA because like Krav there is a wide spectrum, between the clubs that compete and teach yaw yan etc, compared to the others.
Kali, Escrima or other FMA would be good
ua-cam.com/video/buRolNvcyfQ/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/p6yn7PmQsxM/v-deo.html
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Japanese Jiu-Jitsu? Go a little deeper on what makes it different from Jiu-Jitsu today and if it’s any good? Or some of the FMAs like others are suggesting. That’d be sweet too.
I would like to hear your opinions on HEMA
This made me realise, It is not about stopping the first attack from necessarily hurting you, but preventing more attacks and disabling the opponent quickly
I think that is one aspect of many aspects that are important, such as being able to avoid a dangerous situation all together
with someone with a knife and attack you? you better attack him first and disabled him in no time. Dont wait for him to attack you.
If the situations here is the attacker really try to kill you then consider yourself why you dont wear gambeson.
If the person just try to intimidate you then attack him first while wearing gambeson.
As a conceal carry license holder, I genuinely fear knife attacks more than guns. Knife attacks are incredibly terrifying and hard to defend against.
@@MartialArtsJourney absolutely
Dont expect to get away unharmed... But keep the damage as minimal as possible... That was always my understanding of selfdefence.
I once did a lot of martial art Training. Boxing background, did muaythai and Switched to mma. I felt pretty confident... Until i was in a brawl. Wrong time, wrong place thing. That humblet me down pretty much to a point where i still love sportive fighting and i am not afraid of confrontations, but... No one is bullet proof. Minimizing damage is the only thing that is the real Deal. In my opinion. And i dont mean this in a paranoid ist way... More of a realisation that If it will come to a fight, you will get hurt. More or less. But less is better XD
Out of about 60 Krav Maga practitioners and instructors that I have trained with over the years, only four of them had any level of competence in hand to hand combat. But this is fairly common in all martial arts. The average karate/taekwondo/jeet kune do/etc practitioner can’t fight either.
Overall, the average person simply isn’t willing to do what it takes to develop that skill set, regardless of which gym/school/system they train in.
Indeed. I've trained Krav Maga for years under a great instructor but, from all of my colleagues, only a handful of us were actually serious and could defend ourselves from an attacker. The rest would just do things "however they wanted". Many Krav Maga techniques are quite complex and if you don't put your soul into learning them, you'll never execute them properly.
Typical for martial arts that are not fight sports. But then you are well aware.
Heck, even for Boxing, most people learn cardio boxing or at best basic punching drills with very limited sparring.
I was about to say something quite similar. Which leads to the initial saying, it's not the art it's the practitioner. All arts are worth it and effective. Can you find a teacher that will be able to teach it to you the right way is one question and are you serious and dedicated enough to have a full understanding and go search for more when you see something lacking.... (Which again, I still think you need to meet Leo Tamaki for a better understanding of Aikido)
It's not specifically a KM issue, its just that people like to compare apples (average joe) and oranges (pro athlete) and base themselves on that to assess whether something is effective or not.... Simply put, that's not how it works. But then again I can more then understand that one would have expectations of quality or skills from a style or school.
Sport combat and Martial Arts are different things, real problem is, to make a Martial Arts system truly effective one needs lot of time. Probably more then to make a combat sport effective. And the reality is, athletes and sport combat people usually train 2 to 3 times more then TMA practitionners yet the TMA has 1 on 1 combat plus all Self Defense plus weapon stuff.... It is almost impossible to be effective in all aspect of one's art in that sense. So one has to choose where to focus (especially if it's a 2 times a week practice and not a lifetime study).
So, if sold as a system to learn to kick butts as fast as possible and just want to learn for fast results why even bother with anything that is not ring oriented? KM was sold poorly, Itay Gil is not alone working in the direction he is going, Jean Paul jauffret is another man taking KM in that direction and refusing money for grades. Robert Paturel is another one These days are over....
That gap you adressed between Sport and TMA seems to be adressed by KM. I am of the opinion that this mentality and way of seeing SD should be implemented in most of not all TMA... More scenarios, more drills, and always always always more combat and resistance.
And yes, what is seen most places online is simply shameful.
Karate Bushido is a french magazine that also has a youtube channel. The host GregMma has been champion of MMA in his past and sure likes BJJ and wrestling. He also has a karate background. it is in french maybe subbed, but he does meet LOTS of martial artist from all styles and creed. His meeting with Robert Paturel will show a proper way of teaching KM. His interview with a Kung Fu gentleman shows you how intense it can be if tought properly. Because he ALWAYS spar with his guests. And he likes to go hard (in safety). His goal is not even to prove or disprove it is simply to exchange, and by doing so, what doesn't work is usually exposed right away or they simply decline the invitation out of fear. I implore you, watch those videos, great stuff on there.
I am stuck in North America, you are way closer to all these people and may be able to meet some (Leo Tamaki being one of them) and exchange more. Maybe they could interview you and you can explain your unique journey
Try an IDF SF operator. They’re all very competent in KM.
Sparring is essential! If your Krav Maga school says "We don't spar because it's too deadly", then leave it immediately. Most people (talking about average Joes and Janes) join Krav Maga because they want to learn how to defend themselves, they aren't that interested in fighting! That's the reason why beginner classes are always crowded, but when sparring shows up in the curriculum in the more advanced classes, those people start to quit.
The Krav Maga Survival organization spars all the time. Sparring is required for belt testing and they regularly spar with kyokushin practitioners.
That is true everywhere. Every wants to learn right up till it starts to hurt/take real effort beyond showing up.
Man this is facts, at my Dojo it's the same 5 or 6 guys(mostly kids)that show up for fight nights/Sparring.
Very few people stick around when shit gets real, unfortunately most people just want to look cool and feel like a badass, if Schools didn't cater to these people they'd go out of business smh
True
Never seen a Krav Maga school that said that.
I'm glad I had a great Krav Maga teacher. He brought in a lot of street smarts and would put us under constant pressure during lessons. A lot of the time we would learn some sort of technique in the beginning and then he would find some sort of way to break up any sort of monotony. There was always an element of randomness. No lesson was the same.
The location had poor lighting, a few pillars too many, and some bodyweight lying around. It was a very tight space and you always felt cornered.
For one of the lessons he put on very loud music, and the lights would go on and off. He would throw stuff at us and it was a free for all. We were simulating being in a club and everyone was fighting everyone. Some would group up, some would find ways to flee, etc. We were never just practicing what we learned that day, but what we learned overall.
Once he separated us into two groups, had one group do some exercises so it would be exhausted and after a few minutes, the other group would attack them. Most of the people in that group completely panicked and forgot most of their lessons. That was clear evidence for us that we all had more learning to do.
Now that sounds like a good time.
Where is this?
bro my teacher is a judo black belt also but he teaches us mma
I want to go to that school, what's the name?
@@Waddlejpgamigo, tu escuela es genial
Took a few lessons a few years ago. My instructor actually placed a lot of emphasis in avoiding a dangerous situations in the first place and not freezing under pressure. Not a lot of emphasis on perfect execution of technique and a lot of emphasis on finding opportunities to get to safety while under pressure, often using sheer aggression.
Instantly this elevates things like Krav and Systema above most "martial arts" because they look at self defence holistically, and they don't just focus on "fighting" within a narrow set of sports rules and then going "ta da! Now you know self defence".
Too many martial arts give lip service to actual self defence skills like descalation. They say "oh yeah descalate bla bla" but they don't get in to _how you descalate especially under pressure_ . This is where things like KM and Systema are excellent.
Don't get me wrong, combat sports can teach excellent fighting skills.
They seldom teach you self defence though.
@@humann5682 I don’t think in terms of self defense. I only think in terms of not being in a situation; and, if by chance, I find I am in such a situation where I am in danger, I don’t hesitate, talk, negotiate, etc…I just take the initiative and nonapologetically take his space (his actual ground where his feet are) and just keep going (forward energy) until there is nothing left to be concerned. Punching, kicking, grabbing, throwing, whatever flows (full body Gung Fu).
But, that is my style, one I learned on the streets after years of doing tit for tat techniques as I studied karate, American kickboxing, Chinese Gung Fu through different phases of my life.
the problem is that "sheer aggression" is a useless term that would be found in romance novels describing sex scenes. MMA, wrestling, Judo, boxing and jiu jitsu are just as aggressive. its that these martial arts are actually effective.
@@Wrtvrxgvcf55 so is krav maga. simple krav maga hand to hand combat tecniques must be trained to be used. you wont learn how to get out of a rapists grip on boxing, you wont learn to defend against kicks and elbows in BJJ, you wont learn to defend against weapons and multiple opponens in MMA, you will in krav maga but you wont win competitions in boxing, BJJ or MMA in krav maga because you dont know any of it well enough to go against skilled martial artists in those arts, but you will know tecniques from these arts well enough to use them in self defense, atleast thats the goal.
@@Wrtvrxgvcf55”Aggression is useless”
“Look at how these martial arts can use aggression”
We’re talking about life and death scenarios, you need aggression to survive. Martial arts are very useful, but without aggression or training to be aggressive, they’re not exactly useful in self defense. There’s a reason “violence of action” is in official combat arms training doctrine.
I trained boxing and muay thai at a gym that also had Krav Maga. The Krav Maga classes made a notable point of frequently crossing over in the final half hour of class to get the students in the ring sparring with muay thai and boxing students. They could hold their own in the ring because their instructor understood the importance of pressure testing in any martial art.
As a former Krav Maga practitioner myself, I always tell people that it is a great complement for when you already know how to properly fight. Someone already used to fighting and sparring can separate better the fantasy from reality just by looking at a technique. Although a great complement, it's not great by itself. Yes it can work, but it could learn a lot from full contact sports.
@Ellen Lane Hey! Every martial art requires a certain level of conditioning and self improvement. It's only natural that if you invest in good quality training you'll get stronger and more capable over time. I would personally suggest Muay Thai/ Kickboxing. Even 6 months or one year may be enough to make you way more capable of protecting yourself and the longer you train, the better you'll get. Then I would suggest at least getting a blue or purple belt in BJJ. After that you can choose to keep training whatever you like the most. With these two combined, I personally doubt there would be any untrained individual that would be able to cause you any harm.
@@skepticalfox27 idk about anyone but certainly any other female. Against a big guy BJJ helps but let's be honest you're not really going to be able to do "fight" with them, maybe you end up in a lucky leg lock position and you can do something but if ur like a 5'6 woman a 200lb dude is just going walk through you unless you have a weapon
@@lucian5389 I get where you are coming from. I already sparred with people that were 30kg (around 60lbs?) Heavier than me and it's a pain. Not to mention the difference in height that makes it difficult to reach them. But when we are talking about someone that has trained distance control, striking and can also behave properly on the ground, the chances become way better. It's a lot easier to escape from an attacker when you know how to behave in a fight. Maybe she won't be able to defeat him in combat, but should definitely be able to find an opening to escape more easily. And I agree that a weapon (that she can properly use) should definitely be available for that extra layer of protection.
@@skepticalfox27 bjj is terrible in a street fight. Personally if I was on the ground with someone in a street fight I would go straight for the balls or eyes or windpipe, they get up ASAP, before his mate comes over to stamp on my head.
@Ellen Lane as small female against a strong male has only one chane imo. BJJ + acting. you have to set a trap for them so that you can aply a 100% choke which he can't muscle out. you wont have a chance wrestling him, you wont a have a chance punching him. a pefectly landed spinning kick to the head would also work, but if you fail you wont have another chance. so BJJ, and play along. make him feel you are playing along and when he is in a vunarable position you aply the choke.
When I was in my 20s, I studied Wing Chun for a few years, and thought I was quite good. That school closed down, and I tried another one. The very first day at the new school, the instructor asked another student to punch me in the head using any punch he wanted. I was useless in defending it, even though I knew it was coming. The next lesson, the instructor told asked another student to attack me in any way he wanted. The student kicked me in the balls. It was agony, and I had no defense against it. The instructor told me I was terrible at fighting. And he was right.
this was really funny (I'm sorry). I need to know if you kept going back after that?
Your honesty is one of your strengths. You will no doubt be good at avoiding fights. Everything has its positives.
Krav Maga was originally created for military use and during my time in the army (Paratroopes) we have practiced it a lot (mainly in basic and advanced training).
Thing is - what we trained during my service and what is practiced in all those weird semi-mcdojos is like night and day. our training was consistent of basically 50% using your rifle for striking (which works. trust me on that one) and the other 50% was just boosting aggressivness. that was it. no knife defenses, no weird techniques, no fancy demonstrations or anything like that. just rifle strikes and going wild so every time I see one of those weird cringy Krav Maga videos it always seems so weird to me...
What military where you in
@@THEBRO1811 IDF
We learned something similar in the SAF, go off with the gun 50% of the time to bash his head in
@@THEBRO1811 the only one that uses (used?) Krav Maga... 0.o
That is myth.
I guess I got lucky with the two Krav schools I attended. We pressure tested and did scenario training all the time.
Same here; I attend a Krav Maga World Wide school and almost every class has some sort of scenario and stress test.
Yep same here, I'm sure bad schools are out there but most schools i have visted teach authentic Krav Maga which means realistic attacks, pressure testing etc.
I think people see slow demos to display students learning muscle memory and think it's a representation of the technique
The one I go to DOES teach the techniques static for the sole purpose of students being able to learn them and demonstrate them for belt tests, but the instructors also make it clear that those are merely TEMPLATES if shit actually does hit the fan. And we pressure test a lot, too. I'm very fortunate to be training there.
What's was the name and where is it
So true. I've trained Krav Maga for 7-8 years and I've seen many instructors and schools. I've never seen any pressure test of any Krav Maga technique. It's mostly about practicing the choreography with a compliant partner with slow speed and no real intention. We did sparring (sometimes kind of hard sparring) but then there were no Krav Maga techniques at all. I was looking for more realistic training for a long time, but I didn't find anything in the whole country. I realized that this type of training that Itay does is very very rare, and to be honest 99% of people don't want to go that way, because it's really aggressive and painful and scary, they just want to train because it's kind of exotic and fun (what is a good thing btw).
Pressure test is what differentiates a true Krav school from most schools that operate outside of Israel. I have been training for about a decade at one of the best Krav schools in Israel. Pressure test is part of technique examining in general and testing the ability of a practitioner to use it in particular.
Spent 4 years at a school and then started questioning why we teach certain techniques, especially weapons defense and disarm. I challenge 3rd degree blackbelt on why the gun disarm defense was bs. Each time I presented the weapon, I reacted and deliberately fell backwards and each time he would let go of the weapon, proving that it’s all bs. We then started pressure testing all the techniques and most all of it is not practical at all. The simple mechanics is what needs to be built on and then adapt to the fight
@@lorenzomedicci3152 which organization did you train with?
@@lorenzomedicci3152 every time I've questioned a technique my actual instructor told me that A: if I had done the counter-attack with full force it would have worked. B: It has been tested by IDF so it's surely working. That's true that it's very hard (I guess impossible) to simulate a life or death situation to provide a real test, but they don't even try it.
Somebody said movies, soccer moms, and businessmen learning watered-down anything. Krav Maga is designed to do something totally different. I had the fortune of training with Israeli soldiers and it hurt every day for four months.
The fact that there is a minority of credible and legit practitioners within arts like krav maga, aikdio, wing Chun speaks of the need for videos like this to be brought to light as it's the only way to grow the number of legitemate artists and popularize what actually works, awesome video as always! 💪
Every system suffers from schools who teach poorly. Glad you got to see some Krav trained effectively. Krav is essentially: Deal with the threat, Hit Hard, and get control of or exit the situation. If the technique works those skills out of order, it is leaving the Krav Maga principles as I learned them.
Never met an mma coach who didn't get at least one person into a fight.
I've been doing krav for 2 years now. We always do pressure testing at the end of every class. I got to level 2 and we spar every other class. In fact, I dislocated my knee cap from sparring. Many people get bloody noses, kicked in the balls, we call bruises "Krav tatts", etc. One of the problems is so many people come to Krav for a month and then quit because they don't like the physicalness of it. Kind of hard to get into sparing with low-experience people, I actually came close to dying while practicing a new technique because I was put in an arm bar choke and the guy almost crushed my trachea immediately because he didn't know how to practice it safely and was being all macho. The videos you showed of bad examples are definitely bad examples I agree with you there.
and this is why some ppl don't like to spar.
Thanks for having a second look at this. I watched your first video of your criticism of Krav Maga and you weren't wrong in a lot so I just enjoyed it for what it was and moved on. I'm glad you referenced Itay Gil (his last name is pronounced 'gill' like on a fish lol) who does a lot for keeping Krav Maga progressive and effective. If you're ever in New Zealand get in touch and we can take you through some of the Krav Maga in our gym and I would love to discuss your journey of making aikido battle tested (a similar issue we face with a lot of old krav maga techniques). Me and my partner who run the gym have both trained extensively under Itay and are certified under him.
Back in day when I had a Krav Maga studio I would always lose students to the pressure drills. Only a few stayed because they were there to learn how to really defend themselves. So I basically lost those other students because they couldn't get over the uncomfortable feeling they experienced. I couldn't keep enough to stay open so I ended up closing due to lack of income leading to not being able to pay the bills. So I can understand how some studios decide to water things down in order to pay the bills. I do believe just like with any other style that there are plenty of instructors that do not understand what really goes on in a real street confrontation. I worked in a ton of night clubs in Chicago with what I will just call a very aggressive client base for years. So I always believed that would be an asset in being able to deliver quality instruction.
At any rate, great video and thanks for sharing.
I love the fact you reference that UF PRO video (which is really a commercial for their outfits) which is imo the best knife defence video out there. It shows both the fact that you CAN successfully defend against a knife attack and how dangerous it is.
Yes, the difference between refined and "gross" motor movements doesn't ever seem to be addressed in self defense training, but it is so essential to understanding how to react in a given stressful situation.
I was aught Krav by a former IDF (and eventually Foreign Legion instructor) CQB instructor. It was the most intense training I have ever seen, multi mile runs, "walk in the park" drills with unknown combatives and friendlies intermixed, "red light" drills where the lights are low and very loud music and you get spun around and have to identify if its a friend or foe and react accordingly, "bull in the middle" drills where everyone just comes at you two or three at a time for 2 minutes each and you have no rest period until you fail to understand what it feels like to lose, and many other things. When I tried to teach others this way I found many of my students would quit, it was too hard, too intense, they want to say they learned a combat art but never actually learn any of it. Because of that like many people you spoke with, I just tell people to go to a MMA school or a good BJJ school instead. With that said, my kids on the other hand ... I pity the poor person who ever attacks my daughter.
Right on the money man!
Can I have more information?
Krav Maga was never designed for spacial forces on the contrary, it was designed for everyone, including non-combat female soldiers. Back at the day, Imi Lichtenfeld, the inventor of krav been asked to teach something everyone could adopt in 4-5 hours class. So with his knowledge of street fighting, wrestling, boxing and some (very limited) knowledge of judo and karate he crated a class to teach. The main focus is about awareness and avoidance of dangerous situations.
The rest is about being brutal and effective in retaliation.
That’s it!
No gis or belts.
Just a mindset and some useful tools. Everything that came later, including by Imi himself is a money grab.
Ξέρεις κάποια σχολή στη Θεσσαλονίκη;
I was a prison officer. We were taught the spear system created by Tony Bauer. The handiest thing I ever learned was how to position my hands for when I might flinch. Since flinch response comes first. Everything else for 1 v 1 fights I had was useless. The holds and locks were great once someone was under control but on your own in a fight it was windmills and crude BJJ and a lot of praying
Intellectually honest.
Self-deprecating.
Incisive analysis.
And you even used the word "pique" correctly!
You earned a new subscriber today.
As a 25 years Krav-Maga practitioner, I can say that your final conclusion is about right.
There were a lot of important parts that were "lost in translation" when it was spread outside of Israel.
A lot of poorly trained instructors that continued and poorly trained other instructors, as well as a lot of interpretations and later drills development that contradict with the principles of simplicity and maximum impact with minimal action.
How do I know if a krav-mags school is good ?
@@magicalowl4322 if they spar they're probably legit, even if ur teaching shitty technique people will end up figuring out what works eventually if they're genuinely trying to compete with eachother
I was once attacked with a knife for real. The attack was continuous as he went left and right (attempting to cut my gut open) with serious forward pressure on me. I back stepped in succession (boxing style) as blade came so close to my abs it left superficial cuts into my skin (I was that close to being gutted). When he swung outward , I was able to do an inside to outside block but I didn’t just block - my palm gripped his wrist and I had control of knife wielding arm. Then I kicked his ass.
But, strange thing is that I zoned- I had a moment when I was not in control of my moves, they were automatic (like something else was controlling me) and my perception of time actually slowed down. So, I had never trained to do that- I did train a lot though. I should be dead and had it not been for that strange “miracle“ where I zoned, I would have been gutted that day because the dude was a murderer (did that before to someone else and killed him).
I really can’t explain it and would never teach it technique wise. But what came out of me worked and it was similar to the Krav Maga block you show here. Just that it ended with me grabbing his arm at wrist and then executing a punch to his face, then a low leg throw and kicking him everywhere while he was on the ground. Again, everything I did seemed like something else was controlling me perfectly.
I have had similar times when I zoned (as I call it)- only when my life is in definite danger. It’s not something I can turn on and off at will.
Hi Rokas, thanks for credit us. In the end, the Krav Maga problems are the absence of: an unified international federation, a standardized syllabus, and a quality control to become an instructor.
Also, sparring / randori with no cooperative partners (standing position and ground fighting) is essential, and years of regular training. The quality of KM teaching is very variable, and it should be corrected. Regards.
One thing I really liked about Krav was day one they taught you about multiple opponents and that was re-enforced through essentially all training. its something a lot of martial arts dont seem to really touch.
there is no street fights aka real fights without either 1- bigger oponnent or 2- multiple atakers.. or worse both.... so all martial arts fail specialy gayshito being exposed in the fukin floor waiting for a fatal kick in the head of any drunk that might not even know the people and just want to take advantage ... dont forget theres always drunks, people with weapons, small gangs , guys on roids and power ego trips.... i love the principal of simple and effective atack and live the danger zone thats it. stay safe and try to never go to a public gathering without at least one friend... the mental problems guys looking for a fight are looking at alone individuals with small size. oh and security guys are one of the biggest offenders with both size and numbers against people, on ego trips roided out....
No you are not wrong. The original Israeli teachers had backgrounds in actual martial arts (boxing, karate etc.) before they were enlisted to help teach the soldiers. There is no Krav Maga stance or Krav Maga clinch or whatever. You might get lucky and have a Krav guy that teaches you Boxing or Muiy Thai or what ever he actually learned. The gist of what they teach in Israel is aggresivness training. walls of death where you run through a line of people punching and kicking you and fighting your way from one end of a school bus full of soldiers to the other and you all get punished if the guy makes it through.
Krav maga in old IDF manuals has a heavy boxing influence
100% This. I trained Krav Maga in Israel and even today, everyone at my academy also trained in Judo or Kickboxing or something along those lines. Like you said, there were a lot of just basically "toughness" situational drills that were basically about getting the mindset of being super aggressive and to understand what it's like to be attacked and overwhelmed by multiple people. After doing a bunch of knife defense drills, our instructor had us do "live" sparring with rubber knives specifically to show us that everything we just learned most likely wouldn't work and you're going to get stabbed in a knife fight, but knowing something is better than knowing nothing.
100% It's essentially desensitization training to silence man's natural aversion to excessive violence.
There are Krav Maga stances and there are Krav Maga specific moves and techniques. Problem is, lots of instructors ditched that in favour of the "fancy" stuff just to market and make money. Actual serious Krav Maga teaches you even how to mantain proper balance. Unfortunately, there are lots of jokers out there and these jokers can actually get naive people killed. I mean, some "instructors" don't even bother to check if their students can throw a punch or even handle the pain of hitting something hard like a human head.
@@Jaeger_89 Exactly. And damn right there is a krav maga stance. It’s called the general outlet position. It’s probably the most utilitarian stance for general unarmed combat there is. Nothing fancy, just practical.
Thank you for the section bookmarks! Helped me jump around and focus on what I needed.
I'm from Israel and I did a lot of krav maga in my teens and In my military service.
Sadly Itay's type of training is only present in military/police or security guards training.
And In my humble opinion, krav maga doesn't teach you how to fight but to buy some time to draw a weapon or run away.
Krav maga was made to teach basic combat and survival skills for soldiers and law enforcers in the least time possible due to very limited training time but somewhere along the line when krav maga become commercialized it became unnecessarily complicated to sell itself for the general public but in return lost its effectiveness.
לא יכולתי לנסח את זה טוב יותר אבל לך תשכנע עכשיו אנשים שמה שמתאמנים בצה"ל (שזה בגדול תן מכות חזק ומהר) שונה בתכלית ממה שנדד אי שם לחו"ל והפך לסוג של בדיחה...
Well said.
Krav Maga taught in the Israeli army, is very different from what is taught in mcdojo’s. I had a conversation about this with a woman who was in the Israeli army, and now works security. She told me all the Krav Maga she learned was centered around getting to, or maintaining control of her firearm. The biggest threat she faced in her position is someone taking her firearm away and using it on her or others. Different branches of the Israeli military learn different techniques and tactics based on the situations they are likely to encounter. Just like any other military. Krav Maga literally translates to close combat in Hebrew. This is one reason it is so exploitable by mcdojo’s.
At least in my gym, we always had sparring/kickboxing/grappling days like any mma gym would have. All techniques we did we were required to do under full resistance/contact, otherwise you haven't learned it properly. I think quality control is the largest issue.
This channel speaks the truth of most martial arts.
This reminds me of my karate days. We were told all kinds of crap about our new found superpowers. Nobody else ever talks about the fact that most skills are taught against cooperative and paralized opponents.
Quality control is a real issue, but is a good system if thaught properly. I mean come on, You can't think The IDF don't know about combat
Rokas i'm a Big fan of your work, interview Ron Engelman
Try this ua-cam.com/video/lEQmlpqNC4c/v-deo.html
@@AugustMMA i disagree with most of what's he says. That being said awful instructor is awful, be ir KM or kickboxing or any style. I think he Made his mind by watching UA-cam, and also has a first world bias
@@wilt88 Ok i somewhat agree with you but i still think lots of his point are valid. Also, i'd like to hear what he says you think is wrong it would make for an interesting conversation. Also it helped me understand the history behind it allot better as well.
Any modern army that engage in a lot of hand to hand combat must be a shitty one. Yeah IDF know how to fight, so they definitely won't be so incompetent that many IDF soldiers resort to brawling in a real battlefield
The best knife attack defense video I ever saw was posted by a Marine and it lasted a whopping 20 seconds.
The attacker pulled a knife and the Marine turned and ran away. It was posted as a joke, but the best way to win a fight against an opponent with an edged weapon is to not get into one.
That high stress scenario training you talk about simulating real self-defense situations is what Krav Maga has been known for in my part of the world. I was shocked and surprised (and to be honest a bit sad) over the bad rep Krav Maga has gained... But I guess the more people that do it the more watered downs it becomes - especially if money is involved as well... Like your conclusion though :-)
Krav Maga's more complex techniques can work, however they would require years and years of proper training (Lichtenfeld/Lichtenstein level), which would include situations and stress training. The biggest problem I see is that many people want to teach the fancy stuff to students only to look good. In self-defense, many times the simple stuff can be enough.
Krav Maga has one very important thing that most martial arts don't focus which is preparing you for a real danger scenario. Everything counts, from the distance and awareness you have of your opponent and surroundings to the very way you are even standing on your feet. Too bad most places nowadays only seem to focus on the marketable aspect of it. That can happen with any martial art, but it's quite noticeable with Krav Maga because of the prospect of "wow I can learn to defend against a knife/gun". That is completely irresponsible and can get people killed.
Having trained it for years I can say: I think Krav Maga is both the greatest self-defense martial art and the worst. It all depends on who's teaching and how. Too bad that for the average person it's hard to distinguish a good martial arts dojo from a bad one.
This is an example of the difference between Military and LE Krav, and civilian Krav. When it gets watered down to be taught to the public, and especially the American public, the point of the system is lost. Krav was truly meant for war, not fitness.
This is so true. As a black belt Jiu jitsu (together with 10 years Muay Thai) i joined the police force. My first real streetfight situation was an eyeopener. The chaos and the adrealine is something you can't train for, you have to experience it and learn from it. Later i was 6 years in the squad team and i learned that "keep it simpel" is the best advice you can get. In real life threatening situations, houve have to end the situation as quick as possible with minimum risk for yourself. Go for the throat, the balls, the knees etc. and immobilize as quick as possibleand if that's not possible, keep your distance.
This pretty much boils down, from my experience, to whether we're talking about "real" Israeli Krav Maga or about the watered down version, seen in many places around the world.
Krav Maga is a tried, true and well tested method developed for the IDF and is the only martial art taught here. During training, we pressure test everything, we run complex, real scenario drills, simulations and fighting with everything we learn and it is tested by fire every single day on the streets by military and law enforcement across the country. This mentality is preserved in most civilian Krav Maga places around Israel.
I can't attest as to why the system is so broken abroad but I think a lot of it might be related to the World Krav Maga organization watering down the system and to how most schools around the world simply can't even begin to justify stress testing their training. Israel is a country in conflict. You deal with this reality on a daily basis, there have been terror attacks going on constantly for the past almost 30 years, we have mandatory military service, as a practitioner you understand the value of learning true self defence and preparing as much as possible for when reality strikes. On the other hand, I find it difficult to imagine any soccer moms in Denver going for their Krav Maga self defense classes and accepting training with a big sweaty man seriously trying to stab the shit out of them for about 2 hours every week.
I'm a martial arts teacher in Israel and I don't teach Krav Maga... Not sure what you're talking about. Also I've seen BS Krav Maga taught in civilian schools here too
A big problem with Krav Maga is the lack of consistency between techniques and the way it's taught. Some instructors incorporate boxing and grapling, some instructors advise against punching and grappling and instead teach palm strikes. Some instructors teach only low front kicks and knees, some instructors teach high and spin kicks. Some schools are run in an informal style, some operate like Dojos complete with belt systems.
Why even have a name for it at this point?
Excellent video. I trained with Spartans Academy of Krav Maga for a few years in the U.K. I think the trainers were excellent and the techniques and scenarios you described were taught, but full pressure testing was missing. I also took Bjj for a short time, and when my Krav class introduced a bit of ground work I wiped the floor with everyone despite having only a white belt with one stripe from Bjj. I realised that I hadn't really learned anything in 3 years of Krav, but did learn applicable skills from only a few months of Jujitsu. I left Krav that day and started Muay Thai. It's a shame because I always felt that Krav could and should be more effective in real life.
On a side note I attended 2 of Itay Gils seminars through the Krav school and he was indeed very very good. Ex Israeli army I believe, and it shows. If only more schools followed his example...
Problem appears to be that krav maga schools tend to attract people who don't really want to learn to fight. So the schools water it down to learning a set of moves, a bit like kata just with more aggression.
Martial arts classes that spar don't retain so many new starters.
After 13 years of JJJ, I took 2 years of KM with an alumn of founder Imi Lichtenfeld. These guys are the real deal. The ambitious commercialization of KM all over the world has its perverse effects. Even with first-generation alumns, there's debate on who holds the truth, some schools took liberties and augmented the curriculum with techniques borrowed from other martial arts.
The classes I attended were demanding physically and mentally even though I could tell it was watered down for civilians. 😅
The process of increasing self-toughness is not enjoyable for a wide portion of the population, i.e. potential (dearly) paying students.
Telling the good from the bad schools is very difficult for the uninitiated.
I have studied Krav Maga previously, when I worked in security as a door staff member and it most definitely improved my situational awareness. Plus I learned how to apply several variations of choke and even evade being choked out. However, by far the best form of self defence I learned was Combat Ju-Jitsu, which combined effective striking and grappling techniques in one package. I am therefore, surprised this form of marital art, fighting system is not mentioned much at all? Both Krav Maga and Combat Ju-Jitsu served me well whilst working on the door. I was able to apply the more basic short form techniques and the situational awareness it provided me with was invaluable. Personally, I don't think there is one Golden fighting system to learn as almost all lose their form in high pressured situations anyhow, as you correctly state. Just prepares the individual for them, in a awareness and confidence aspect, in my anecdotal experience and formed opinion upon this.
Good overview of findings. I did Krav for a short time, had no issue with the conditioning and they even had us practice basic punches and kicks. There was even sparring sometimes but I felt like I would have gotten more from it if we’d done more stress testing and less form work.
I read somewhere - "Nooo you have to attack me the way I trained at my self defense classes!"
Having done some IKMF and TKM, it's incredibly gratifying to see Itay Gil show up. I love TKM. That said, the quality of training, even within the same dojo, is incredibly dependent on the trainer and participants.
I took a weekend training with Rory Miller: he mixed Krav Maga with what worked for him in prison and police work. I didn't agree with everything (I think more kicks tend to work against untrained people), but he basically said "You're going to get hit so get in close, hit hard, use elbows, block, etc. He also used classic security moves like hand under the opponent's nose from behind, knee on downed subject etc. He also moved very quickly.
Excellent video. I appreciate the hard work you put into researching what wasn't working, as well as what does work in different Krav Maga schools. I have been a Krav Maga Instructor for 5 years, and have had to abandon and or modify several techniques for the same reasons you mentioned in your video. Thank you again for your hard work and un bias martial arts journalism. Shalom and God bless!
Jake from Armchair Violence has what I think is a really good central point about this: Krav Maga is not a fighting system with a syllabus of techniques, it's a philosophy with a set of principles. That makes choosing to train in Krav unreliable even compared to arts like aikido because there's no consistency.
To illustrate my point, if you go to a boxing class you can be fairly certain you'll be taught a jab, cross and hook, and you'll likely be taught them under at least the pressure of sparring. If you go to a BJJ class you'll be taught the guard and an armbar, and you'll learn to apply them in rolling. If you go to aikido you'll be taught kote gaeshi and tegatana, and you'll probably only learn to apply them in low-pressure randori. On the other hand, if you go to a Krav class, you might be taught any, all or none of those, under a wildly varying amount of pressure and anywhere from no protective gear to full armour, depending on the background of the instructor, because *calling it Krav Maga only means you're teaching according to Krav principles*.
To be clear, this isn't to say that there aren't good and bad instructors and places from which to learn other martial arts, but the problem is endemic to Krav because it explicitly has no standard curriculum or training methods.
1 rule of self-defence. There Are no rules. Grab a brick if you have to survive. Run if you cant fight. Observation and awareness is your 1st weapon.
Krav works. Ive been in a fair amount of violent situations, from hands to knives, sticks, bats. I trained in krav after my rowdy days, but i did end up using it twice in real life. And because of my life experiences, i was able to evaluate krav when learning it.
#1 it is pretty much mma, with some unique principles and techniques, and some dirty fighting. It includes boxing, wrestling, bjj, muai tai, judo. Its sort of bruce lees philosophy, it takes what works from those systems.
#2 u must find a good gym/dojo, i too have seen alot of nonsense online that does not accuratley represent krav. And of course, like any system, there is some stuff that isnt practical in real life but most of it is good stuff.
#3 there is no best system. But if i needed to train some1 to be effective at protecting themselves in a fairly short amount of time, krav is the best at that mission, IMO. Or any good combatives really. It relies on principles, and each principle will have multiple possible techniques. It also heavily emphasizes agression and blitzkreig which r both valuable in violence.
#4 we have a problem in our society today, weve gotten soft. Most men below 30 in the west, def in America atleast, have not experienced violence, maybe 1 or 2 school fights, maybe. So no1 really knows what works well, so there is alot of nonsense out there. Its like the US army b4 the GWOT, ppl had all kinds of things they thought worked, until war kicked off, then they realized most of it was garbage, and honed their craft.
#5 Krav works. But to break it down to basics, u need good striking like boxing, a basic understanding of takedowns and grappling, wrestling/bjj/judo, and some weapons defenses. If u can get good at those basics and have the right mindset, you would b able to defeat most ppl u come across. Its a holistic system, u also need the situational awareness, the mindset, u need to b able to flip that switch and let the killer out on the drop of a hat. And u need to spar, u have to spar, u need to know what it feels like to have punches coming at your face, and know what it feels like to be hit and to hit.
#6 lastly, u need speed and violence of action. I used this constantly in my situations and seen it b used alot. I use this anology, imagine if your opponent had no concept of fireworks. U hand him a boom stick, tell him to light the fuse, he watches the fuze burn, it explodes. By the time he realizes that it exploded, the damage is already done. U need to b that boom stick, by the time he realizes u attacked him, he should b on his back, choking on his teeth. No warning, no talking, def no shoving. To him, it seems like a honey badger just ripped into him with an explosion of violence. To u, everything is controlled but done very quickly and aggressively. Also remember, that the same can b done to u. And if your dealing with some1 who is experienced, they will employ this tactic, so u must b ready.
This comment is already way to long, im gnna make a channel and share my experiences soon. Im not john wick but i believe i have some valuable knowledge that is needed today.
This is very helpful. Thank you. I hope you start your channel soon.
Cool story bro!!!
Ya right. Krav maga worldwide in Los Angeles is filled with soccer moms and middle aged men.
Thanks...this helps.
Sadly your criticism is very true for 99% of Krav maga schools. There’s a fight mission video where they travel to Israel, I think it’s episode 09 and they show what real Krav Maga looks like. I have practiced Krav Maga for multiple years but stopped because I realized not only am I not really learning to defend myself, I would also loose in a fight to pretty much anyone with a tenth of my experience but in an actual martial art, which was very disappoint of course. I now switched to primarily thaiboxing but if you practice Krav Maga the way that it is intended, with actual sparring and no fear of getting hurt, with actual coaches ideally in a recognised school in Israel, then it really is unbelievably effective. Unfortunately people take the „hype“ and the name and try to make it international with out taking much else with it besides that.
This and along with Ramsey Deweys latest video as kind of opened my eyes a tad to something that I hadn't considered as a gap in my training. Which I'm going to fill. Though I may have to wait for the weather to warm up (its still pretty cold here in England) I'd like to get some rubber knifes, baseball bats and some sparring gear. Then get some of the lads I used to hang around with, that are street thugs with no training. Give them these items and just let them come at me. No training on their part. Completely unpredictable in ways of movement and approach. Then film the results and see how I do. I do agree its a gap in combat sports.
The first rule of fight club is...
Came here from Ramsey Dewey’s page. Great video! Keep up the good work!
Krav Maga always struck me as one of those martial arts that is 9 parts hype and 1 part substance, and it looks really good at seminars and in movies, but very little of it is actually functional when compared to reality (which is kind of ironic considering how its apologists will always claim it's the "most effective"). It's got all the same problems that a lot of traditional martial arts teaching methods have, but its apologists are often very resistant to accepting that because of the (typically undeserved) hype that surrounds Krav Maga that has just entered into the public consciousness.
It's probably the same story with anything else: it comes down to whether the instructor is actually teaching in a realistic fashion. Krav Maga is one of those situations where you don't really know what you're getting; you might be getting a competent trainer who will actually be teaching you to be defending yourself, or you might just be getting enthusiastic cosplay. That's true or martial arts in general, but Krav Maga apologists need to acknowledge that Krav Maga isn't immune to it. And if they think Krav Maga DOESN'T have those short comings, then they're probably going to a dojo that has them.
Krav Maga is not a martial art. The objective in Krav Maga is to GTFO alive, not to measure yourself against an opponent.
@@hank-uh1zq Don't play stupid word games. It just makes you look like an idiot.
Martial arts isn't limited to sports and "measuring yourself". Fighting styles used for self defense also count as martial arts.
Hell, martial arts were originally used for warfare and killing other human opponents.
So yes, Krav Maga is a martial art. Deal with it. The question as to whether it has real world efficacy remains an open one, however. So far as I can tell the "objective" of krav maga is to hype itself up on the internet.
Many years ago I was trained in MILITARY Krav Maga, the full course (ex any specialist or instructor training) was 42 hour syllabus, that included contact training and the basic scenario training . Practice after this was at least 50% full one scenario training just like all other military training.
We had simulated lift spaces, bus/coach, cafe even a small dance floor, all for running scenarios inc team fights.
The problem is the civilianised rubbish with belts, sparing and tournaments with rules. ( In our training full force, joint and neck attacks were banned, although drilled. ) All self defence should include contact and scenario training
Well, krav maga was based on wrestling and boxing and later incorporated more moves from other systems as it developed. It's no surprise that it looks like them: it is them. At least if it's what the Isrealies actually train in anyway.
I don't know what any of the bad examples are from, but having been to a number of krav classes, I never saw anything like that. Seems like some people are just creating bullshido and calling it krav maga because it sounds sexy.
Indeed. Lots of stupid marketers out there. There are plenty of effective techniques in Krav Maga, but none are to be taken/taught lightly, since executing them poorly can get you hurt/kiled.
My late father-in-law was a Welsh combat instructor in WW2. He said the rifle (SMLE) was key. Long range with the bayonet and in close the rifle to block, and strike and the butt to crush.
Muito bom. Muito obrigado.
Your conclusion is right: it depends on schools and instructors. It also depends on the person which has to use the technique in real life, on the threat himself ... My instructor says "If you see a knife yust run away!", but if you can't he shows you how to ( try to) survive with the less damage. We learn to de-escalate conflicts; we learn to check the environment, recognise dangers and avoid them; we do sparring; we learn defense against multiple attackers; we learn the techniques first in a "static" way, then in the end the aggressor will try to do everything to hurt you; we use improvisation sometimes, the instructor says "no matter if it is exactly what I teach you, if it works is good!"; we simulate stress situations as real as possible: this is usefull, this is why I learn KM even if I know that is not perfect as real threats are harder than simulations.
A legit Krav Maga gym imo should have the following
-Trainers with credentials from Israel
-Offer some martial art like Muay Thai to give people a good foundation on the fighting that has to be applied in the kv system.
-Have the appropriate equipment to do pressure testing techniques.
Also people forget KV is supposed to be more like out of the fighting that works, how would you apply that to a self defense situation. For example in a self defense situation you wouldn't go for a take down or a clinch if you had the space to run, or wouldn't try a sub if there is no reason for you to need to immobilize the aggressor.
In my Krav Maga class we practice defense against a knife attacker. First thing we practiced - run away! Dead serious. Your training partner pulled a knife, you bolted. Best self defense, have the presence of mind to get out of there! After that all our knife drills were very straight forward, not fancy at all, mostly blocking getting stabbed, trying to get control of their wrist while simultaneously nailing them in the nads. None of this ninja-looking stuff. Our instructors even told us - if you don't run away, you will get cut. There is no way around it. So really don't fight unless you are cornered and the only alternative is being stabbed to death. Even one of our instructors got jumped by a guy with a knife. He knocked the guy out but has a big scar on his fore arm where he took a slash trying to get past him (he was cornered on a subway platform).
Dude, Krav Maga's usefullness has been tested in the actual battlefield.
That's just a story.
It's not proof
In the IDF the basic Krav Maga moves are how to use the standard IDF weapon(M4 or Tavor mostly) when you run out of ammunition, and yes it is effective. it works since the assumption is that most enemy soldiers are clueless in martial arts so Krav Maga would give an IDF soldier the edge in an unarmed struggle.
This is such a good analysis, please keep up the content!
The best self defense is to not get into trouble in the first place and if you get into trouble run away while you still can.😉
In all other cases get your self a gun and shoot the bastard!🤣👌
1st of all ALL legitimate Krav Maga schools will have pressure testing, and scenarios with multiple attackers once you reach an intermediate level. 2nd Krav Maga techniques are gleaned from Wrestling, Judo, Boxing, Karate, Jiu Jitsu, and Muay Thai adapted for real life fight situation. It is NOT made for sport, or the ring. A boxer will be able to outbox, a wrestler out wrestle, a Karate fighter out kick a Krav Maga practioner in the ring, because it is for street self defense. 3rd MMA fighters have to master ring fighting but do not practice the techniques Krav Maga uses (most are illegal in the ring), and Krav Maga does not practice fighting for multiple rounds against well trained fighters in the ring.....so comparing the two is stupid. One is for quickly disabling an attacker, the other for competition against professional fighters.
A great video and as always, very unbiased and open minded
You should search about Krav Maga Caveira. It's a brazilian adaptation of krav maga.
Krav Maga Caveira is the real deal. It's a great adaptation of many techniques into the reality of Brazil. Brazil does not have wars in it's territory. Self-defense there is all about urban combat.
Great analysis. I also came to the same conclusion that pressure testing was necessary, after doing some taichi and aikido, just like you. Except you went all the way, and had the courage to test your aikido, even going as far as closing your school and trying out mma. I haven't watched your story about your journey but I'm going to definitely watch your videos, hopefully you have your story there somewhere!
I'm attending KM trainings and my friends do too, in different schools in the same city. Our experience is completely different. They practice many scripted situations, they are educated how to avoid conflict , how to escape from a situation, and so on. My school does it totally differently. no education how to avoid conflict, no scripted situations, just straight boxing, then kicking, then some graspling, shadow boxing, laps, bags, later sparring. It seems to me kinda like MMA a little. To be honest i like it more than what they do.
I understand the point raised, one of the videos you show is of Krav Maga Global, I have been practicing it for more than 5 years and the difference I see is mainly that always, but always you have to defend and attack at the same time, making the momentum of the attacker is used against him, we also do training under stress with shields and closed eyes, making you understand what it is like to be attacked regardless of the circumstance. It is true that there are moves that look "artistic" but we were always taught not to let the attacker have a chance to react. One detail I agree with, a knife is very difficult to defend and even more so if the person using it has some experience.
Great video!
As Krav Maga became more commercialized, people have dumb down the moves and made them less functional so more variety of people can train in it. Krav Maga isn't about what schools are good or bad - it's generally boils down to which organization is good or bad. The Israeli military, Krav Maga Global, LOTAR, and a few others train closer to the original version of Krav Maga (non-commercialized version of Krav Maga) which centered around simple techniques that were extensively stress and pressure tested. Newer organizations don't want to spar, don't want to pressure or stress test because the soccer moms, kids, etc won't sign up - it's all about money. It has become the cross-fit of martial arts - pump out schools as fast as possible (like the IKMF).
Additionally, 75% of Krav Maga is just Muay Thai, BJJ, Wrestling, some Judo and only 25% are modified Japanese JuJutsu or original Krav Maga techniques. It was created to get someone (a new soldier) with zero combat training to basic fighting compacity within a short period of time. It's not made to make you into a MMA fighter. Most Krav Maga practitioners generally use Krav Maga as a introduction to martial arts and after about a year, move on to combat sports. They will go back to Krav Maga for self-defense and scenario based training (I followed the same path and currently use it for that reason too).
I train Krav Maga and at my Dojo they put emphasis on the following prerequesites to learn KM:
- The curriculum is greenlighted by the International Krav Maga Foundation. We have direct ties with Israels best instructors and practitioners. The men that train us here had to get their testing done in Israel itself before they were even allowed to teach and call themselves experts. All of our instructors are also black belts in many a different martial arts so they have experience beyond just KM. The lads that train me for instannce are black belts in: jiujitsu, judo, pencan silat or taekwondo. (So they know self defence from more than just one angle so I believe their arguments and my own experience when stating that Krav Maga can be useful.)
- Make your attacks realistic: if you punch for training simulations: try to hit your target and use recoil. (Ofcourse you start slowing and build up with beginners) No one learns to deflect strikes if they miss in the first place because you are aiming at thin air. Chokes, mounts, headlocks, bearhugs or any raw type of physical agression must be done with 'force'. If you are not really strangling someone and your target can escape by just stepping backwards, you are not teaching them anything. (Naturally you make sure you are not permanently damaging someone.) Stuff like this really reminds you how difficult it can be to escape let's say a rear naked choke and how little time you have. But it adds allot to learning how to fight if you ask me.
- We have scenario training: in bars, on the streets or simulating loud clubs in sports halls (big crowd, loud music, disco lights). We do multiple attackers vs 1 combat drills, defending a VIP that is under attack (your buddy that doesn't do anything) and sparring to learn how to deal with pressure etc. We deliberately add stuff like being verbally agressive towards someone as well. Not just start pushing someone, scream at them and insult them at the same time. Other examples include that while you are sparring with someone 1 vs 1 another person can come in from behind to start and choke you. Or while you are trying to release yourself you can still be attacked with punches/kicks from other kravists. They put allot of emphasis on scanning your environment: how many people are there, don't get isolated or cornered and always look for an exit.
- Krav Maga focuses on easy to employ movements because under stress you small motor skills go straight out of the window. Most techniques are simultaneous attacks and defences and can be performed under 2 seconds. So no elaborate 20 steps nonsense to 'end a fight quickly'. I have a background in judo and jiujitsu and I am convinced the Krav techniques are cleaner, faster and more painful than any of the self defences I was taught in those other schools of fighting. (Not saying that judo and jiujitsu are bad)
I also like to add that Krav doesn't reinvent the wheel. There are kicks, punches, armbars, chokes, releases and throws that come straight from boxing, muay thai, wrestling and jiujitsu. For instance the before mentioned curriculum has techniques like roundhouse kicks, side/back/low kicks, uppercuts, jabs, hooks, knee strikes and many more that are used in other martial arts. What it does add though is a pinch of realism that you can expect on the streets: people wearing shoes, people having hidden weapons, multiple opponents and not obeying any strict rules. So in Krav we target weakspots on the body where other defence systems won't allow it. Think about the groin, eyes, throat etc so you will have your own tools to fight back. So during sparring you are allowed to kick someone in the nuts however most of it looks arguably very similar to MMA. I like to think that krav maga teaches you allot about fighting and gives you many tools to defend yourself. What makes it unique is that it doesn't shy away from using dirty fighting and does allot with you alone vs many. (It's scary how heavy it is to fight 1 vs 5 for just 2 minutes, you will be out of breath) Even Bas Rutten himself said that he would defend himself in a barfight by starting out with a headbutt: no fancy stuff just let them know you are not messing around. Sports fighting is not the same as street fighting. Krav leans towards the latter that's why there are no medals to win in tournaments.
The downside is I have constantly blue spots and scratches all over my body. I am thankful for the protection we wear like tonques, mouth guards, shin guards and sometimes MMA or boxing gloves. But I think it proves that we try to make our defensive tactcs realistic. Hope that adds my two cents. Thanks allot for the video mate! As a final note I would like to add that all the things you mentioned in your thesis apply to any martial art in general. You can find plenty of videos on UA-cam about instructions and techniques from other disciplines were during the demonstration the opponent offers little to no resistance and people just standing there waiting to be 'taken down'. Does this mean jiujitsu is shit now as well? You can easily manipulate footage to make a fool out of any martial art or make anyone looks like a total beginner if you just focus on the bad parts. Just search for any judo/sambo video where they teach you a throw. No one is offering resistance there because they are for showing the technique for starters. Doesn't mean judo doesn't work as a sport in a 1 vs 1 duel where both are struggling each other. Doesn't mean you can take someone out on the street by throwing them over your shoulder on the pavement. How is this for proof that Krav Maga works as a system: in my country they teach it to police officers, security guards and soldiers too. Hell, some of my instructors are directly hired by local law inforcement to teach some krav maga. Those professionals share plenty of examples of encounters at the job where they succesfully employed krav maga to keep themselves safe. So can that prove the system has it's uses? Or do a few internet videos make the whole thing a scam?
At least in my federation, FEKM, and the video misses some important points:
-the knife defense technique (indeed all the weapon techniques) includes a simultaneous strike/series of strikes (including groin) intended to stun and therefore allow some time for escape or joint manipulation. Of course doing a wrist lock is not going to be very effective cold, but in the wake of a boot point to the testicles...
-sparring is routine, mandatory and includes hard sparring for the level tests;
-the sparring includes standard MMA style but also groin strikes and on the ground we lose the gloves and go for eyes, groin etc. and includes all illegal moves from MMA (you fight like you train, right?)
-Obviously techniques "working" is not a binary... "working" in Krav means that the initial attack was mitigated and you have inflicted pain or damage in return and you are in a better position (posture, body position, etc) afterwards than before
-we absolutely pressure test/scénario train on a regular basis (blind siding, multiple attackers, backed into corner, multiple attacks in series, use of objects and obstacles, etc.)
Finally, Krav Maga is a series of principles more than techniques: Develop aggressive attitude once the first attack happens; simultaneous defense and strike to invert the dynamic of the altercation asap; prioritize "dirty" attacks to eyes, throat, groin, knee, etc. Prioritize shortest path of motion; Objective is always neutralize to escape (not look pretty, get involved in some sort of stupid dominance display, etc.).
Krav/self defense gyms also attract many people with NO martial arts or sport experience (often women/bullied teens/nerdy guys) who are looking to develop confidence. Going from a reaction of "shell up, give up your back and hope it ends soon" to "stay out of strike range, get your hands up, block a haymaker/react to a choke, inflict some degree of damage then GTFO or square up in a proper fighting stance with basic foot work and jab/cross/front kicks and go for the throat eyes and groin if you can" is a HUGE step forward for the majority of beginning Krav students.
I’m still pretty used to Krav Maga, but I’ve loved my pressure/stress tests because it allows me to think on my feet! The baton/ knife arm grapple is pretty helpful and have noticed that I don’t think about it when we’re doing stress tests
Rokas, I appreciate your chronicle of your journey. I am 65 and have done a similar one: Kempo, Judo, JKD, TKD, and now Krav. My age forces me to limit combat sports and focus on self defense. My krav class seems to be good - based on this video. Thank you for your work.
I had the honour to train in a group with a well rounded martial artists who had a Krav Maga/Military Background. Was a great time: We were doing stuff like being attacked with a takedown while doing light boxing sparring with a third person. But I think the training just worked because all of us had trained different martial arts before.
My Krav Maga instructor always showed us techniques, and told us that, there is no way we will be able to do the whole series of attacks. He always told us that he is just showing us how that all the moves can flow for practice. Even for knife defence, he always reiterates that u will get cut. We are taught to kick to just create distance, not to win the fight, just enough to run or get help.
The reason why most schools do not do the high pressure training, is because they are there to make money.
Top end fight clubs push hard, and there is a very small group of people who are willing to train that hard, and willing to take injury. In many of the schools I went to, you would have to get to the advanced levels, or take special 'fight' classes to get that high pressure, but most schools make their money on the basics. Levels 1-5 (out of like 20 levels).
As much as we want to think of ourselves as 'fighters', we still need to understand that those schools, are SCHOOLS first. It's not a charity. They need to make money, so they need a wide pool of people, if they are not the top 10 fight clubs with their names on the butts of UFC champs.
The instructors even say they have to appeal to the street fighter, the ring fighter, as well as the soccer mom, and the programmer who are just looking for something other than running on a treadmill.
In my experience, the krav schools do a lot more hitting, than the karate, TKD, and KungFu schools, but a lot less than the MT, BJJ, and MMA schools. The difference is that some are sports, and some are self defense. Even the boxing schools have 2 different styles. One for the Cardio Box, and one for the people who are looking to ring fight. Jumping to the beat, will get your ass beat, in the ring.
Also, You can't kick someone in the groin a bunch of time in class, and expect them to come back tomorrow.
When I trained in Krav, they used the electric shock knives, as well as ones that had ink on the 'blades' in the advanced classes.
It can depend. If the knife attacker is using the knife out of fear and doesn't know how to fight with a knife, the techniques will work.
If its a guy who knows how to hold a knife and is specifically trained in knife fighting then no way.
In terms of general self defence any knowledge is better than no knowledge.
Even if you take the learning all the vulnerable spots on a person and can remember them in the heat of the moment then it's going to help
As an instructor what we do is use fully resistance and sparring. We use controlling techniques, striking techniques, take downs, add 100% resistance to have someone stop the attacker.
My 2 cents: Krav Maga is not a martial art, it is a type of close combat. It is about attacking as defence (or attacking as attack). If not done aggressively to hurt the other, it is just not effective. It's about survival and not defence; about "sometimes risking breaking your arm, but stop a crowbar hitting your face". The fear in a real fight enhances it. That can only be well trained in (almost) military environments.
Also, in a sport-situation you are not allowed do use like 60% of the techniques; as eye, airpipe, ears and all other sensitive areas are not allowed to be targeted. Same thing as the Spetsnaz Systema, as a "sport" or "martial art" it is just funny, but if you are in a dark street in a war zone, the physical training, basic techniques and conditioned attitude do the job. KM is about running to the fight when needed (because you must and your officers have an objective to meet) and not about points or least-damage.
End of the day, whatever the style, it is always about stamina, speed, some experience, grappling, kicking and boxing.
May (if your case is right) your brothers & sisters have your back and be with more as the other guys.
My personal tip is to look out for a gym that has krav maga and mma so you can test your moves on resisting fighters. My krav maga teacher was also the mma teacher and we often sparred with them. Funnily enough our teacher always told us: "the only difference between krav maga and mma is in krav maga u learn to run away"
Seriously we learned to run away from every position xD
Brilliant and couldn't agree more. Your conclusions apply to most martial arts, particularly classical martial arts in which pressure training is rarely incorporated. I think it's time for all martial artists to be honest with themselves and analyse what works within their systems. I don't think training in anything has necessarily been a wasted experience. However, it is time to waken up and think hard about what you've learned over the years and then refine this into something useful in the real world. This is my current journey. Sometimes slightly painful but always best to be honest with oneself. ATVB
I’m loving it I’m involved with season two and can’t wait this will be way more intense than season one 🇦🇺
A thoughtful piece, well reasoned and presented. Thank you.
I am happy to say that my krav maga trainer is a good one. Krav maga is all about survival mainly in street fights or the army. The first thing he always says is that if you have the option, you should avoid confrontation and prefferably, run away. You should only fight when it's absolutely necessary. When first showing us techniques, he will do everything very slowly to make sure we understand and then progressively add more pressure and speed. We also have at least 3 spars with different people for a training session. After every technique and slight beating our partners, we have to quickly change the place we are standing at and look around for other enemies. Then as soon as your partner stands up, you take the role of a bad guy. He prepares us for beating others and being hit and always says, that our brains work different under pressure and stress, so because this isn't the Type of stress in the studio, he makes us extremely fatigued, to the point where we cant even sit without our muscles shaking. I am very happy to have met this man :)
As a Krav Maga instructor, I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments expressed in this video. Several years back, I made a deliberate choice to undergo training in BJJ, wrestling, and boxing separately, integrating these disciplines into my Krav Maga sessions. It's crucial to remember that Krav Maga is fundamentally founded on the principles of boxing, wrestling, BJJ, as well as knife and stick fighting.
Regrettably, it seems that many instructors tend to overlook the importance of crafting sessions that reflect real-world situations. This oversight can unfortunately apply to instructors across various martial arts disciplines. When you're an instructor, you're shouldering the responsibility of teaching individuals how to defend themselves in high-pressure, true-to-life scenarios.
This is excellent, and is the same answer I give as well. It's not necessarily what style you learn, but the quality of your training.
As Jason Hanson points out, Krav is very good if you have a short period of time to give people what they need to survive in the field-be it the military or, in his case, the CIA. I was impressed that Itay's techniques build on the basics, such as the "Seatbelt," which is reassuring to a new student in Krav. Krav will always have a lot of elements of other martial arts since it was created by grabbing what was already "on the shelf" from existing martial arts.
I did some KAPAP, like 60-70 hours in total. If you cannot learn the basis of a technique within 20 minutes in slow training, it's not worth going for it. The mindset of KAPAP (and in that sense of Krav Maga, too) is that you either make yourself an escape route or end the fight within the first 20-30 seconds. That's the difference to other fighting styles, where you would start to dance around each other to search for holes and land good hits. Hence, the one good example you showed, with the instructor jumping into the swinging enemy, no matter whether getting hit or not, is kind of representive. 100% out or 100% in. Some of the more "technical" exercises are trained to encounter threats that might not be lethal (e.g. your drunk best friend messing around a little bit too much; or you are working for law enforcement). You don't want to break them all bones, but rather bring them to the ground in a safe and controlled manner. That's when you might work with some leverages on joints and arms, but that's not what most of that self defense technique is. It's just a sub category of inventory. When you train KAPAP and you do a kind of critical scenario, with the opponent really wanting to harm you, you either make yourself an escape route or you go all-in.
We even went so far to train disarming while having someone shoot a prop gun right behind us to train us letting go of the shock and start acting, no matter the loud sound. You would start the movement slowly without any resistance and then round after round, the training partner would resist more and more, or you have to sprint first before doing the movement, or you start from the floor, doing pushups or whatever and your opponent stands fresh and recovered a few feet away more ready than you, and sometimes you would have to fight one or more opponents at the same time, trying to withstand the constant barrage of hits and fresh enemies for a certain amount of time.
Technique is obviously one part of all fight styles, but I guess KAPAP shouldn't be too concerned about 100% execution perfection, except for the gun disarming techniques maybe.
Of course, KAPAP/Krav Maga has also been turned down for audience that wants less aggression. A friend of mine did KAPAP in another town and her training was by far not that distincted and was mostly technical as your first video examples showed.
Why don't people try to seize the knife attacker's knife weilding hand/wrist with two hands, then twist the arm either clockwise or counterclockwise and control/lock the knife 🔪 weilding arm appendage???
Somehow you never seem to realise that of course sparring will always look like sparring in the styles that focus on sparring, but that is not because that is the only thing that works, it is just the only thing that works in sparring. You can't use a technique meant to kill in sparring, because no one will want to do it with you.
The real problem with krav maga, is that it trains to kill, which for an average person is hard to do, an average person doesn't want to hurt another person more than necessary.
Learning proper etiquette for sparring and having a respectful bond with your partner are a necessity for anyone hoping to be prepared for real life danger. My friends and I use weapons of various kinds, and we often get injured. All part of training.
I have trained in the uk with KMG and as well as the general weekly classes, they hold specialised workshops which are more extreme and do apply pressure testing. Highly recommend.
In my Krav Maga classes we had a little bit of training in technique. Usually the first 10 minutes. Then repeated controlled exercises with the technique for about 20 minutes. The last 30 minutes would be full blown stress training with a mix of sparring 1 on 1, 1 against multiple attackers and hooligan type brawl with 2 groups of maybe 5 against each other. They would also put up chairs and tables to simulate a bus or a bar type situation. There would also be a lot if training in keeping distance, how to move arround multiple attackers and getting up from the ground and run.
It might not be perfect for all situations, but I think it was as good as you can make an organised self defense program for regular people.
Any time I hear "complex moves" in the context of Krav Maga, I cringe a little. In the Krav Maga training I had, the focus was simple techniques applied with controlled aggression. Lots of sparring, lots of force on force, and an emphasis that Krav wasn't about having a skill to skill fighting competition with your attacker, but how to get out of a bad (and unavoidable) situation quickly. If you have no choice but to fight, these are the risks, here are some solutions to get you through it.
One good way our instructors made it clear that there are no "series of moves" that always work" is having us gradually increase the amount of force being used in any given scenario, and having us switch up training partners at some point. What was working with this guy, won't work at all with the next guy and so on.
I've definitely seen some of the more questionable Krav Maga training online, and I'm lucky that the place I used to train did none of that nonsense.