That's a very risky move in itself. Some conventions don't allow unauthorized vendors to do any kind of dealings (they worry about what's being sold and if they are reporting taxes on it) but could affect entry in future years. Right outside the perimeter seems safe too but just soooo risky
That's how the musician Alec Benjamin started, he would perform for people waiting in line to get into concerts then hand out his business card. He would make lists of what artists were performing where and just travel all over to play outside of them. Sometimes that's just what you need to do to succeed. It shows such an incredible amount of dedication to me! =^_^= It makes me feel like I need to work harder like they were too lol
I really appreciate hearing this. I'm an original artist and I constantly feel pressure that I should be making fanart but I don't have the energy to deal with the potential of IP strikes. I also like focusing on my characters and their stories. So much so I started working on a graphic novel with my best friend to make a full blown story and it's been awesome seeing people see the art and come up and start asking where the characters are from because they don't recognize them but they connect with what they see.
I really love to see artists doing their own original art and stories as you are doing, instead of fan art. I'm glad people are connecting with your characters and graphic novel, and I wish you the best of luck for the future!
Ya don't fall into the fanart trap. It's a legal nightmare. Literally all thos dudes work could land him a lawsuit if the ip holders are feeling froggy. It literally takes 1 young corporate lawyer who wants a raise ans he'd be in a world of hurt. , and good luck arguing fair use when selling 1:1 characters of established IP as fanart. It's a slam dunk case every thing you sold 😂 is proof of losses for the IP holder.
I found the question about fan art vs original to be interesting. Looking back on my artist alley shopping experience two things drive my purchases 1.) fan art for an obscure series that has little merch or is an obscure chara. Or if it is a very unique take on the work. 2.) original art that captures a feeling or style that speaks to me. I think I lean about 60% fan art and 40% original when it comes to purchases. One of the neatest things I've picked up at the local conbini mart (run by the local con, AStL) was a rainbow window decal. The idea of it being an original item that no one else had, worked on me. Do I want a strawberry that will project a rainbow into my living room? Yes. As a person who has been known to drop several hundred on fan art during a con weekend, the trick that will catch me as a buyer is a little bit of everything and wide range of prices.
My friend from the gamedev industry told me, that one of the workers from the popular game company had shared with her that they can't officially allow selling fanart (and they have it in their ToS) but they won't do anything if somebody sells it. When somebody asks them in the e-mail then yes, they have to decline but if you won't ask them, then you're fine. And it's a really popular IP. That got me thinking.
I think it’s mostly a legal protection thing, but many companies seem to like it, you see some game studio even sharing fanart on their socials on the regular.
It’s not rocket science really… They wanna protect their IP. Every art that comes out of these companies have an approval process and these artists follow guidelines. If you wanna sell your art and people know you represent the company, you might end up distributing art, as an employee, that wasn’t approved and can skew the original artistic concept. If it’s deemed as fanart and it’s not public who worked on it, and you’re not selling this image in bulk, then the rules can be bent. It’s still not ideal in the companies’ eyes
Really appreciated this interview, the insights from both of you were really helpful to me as someone who's still pretty green when it comes to the con scene. Right now 98% of art I sell is original work and in print form, fan art isn't really my jam but I'll draw a piece or two of something I really like a lot. I had a piece of mine hit with a C&D from Disney on Redbubble a few years ago, I did a digital piece of Thor I had up for sale, but not the MCU/Marvel comics version but a more brown-skinned god of thunder with a more fiery hammer than lightning. I pleaded my case, basically citing that Disney's and Marvel's version of Thor didn't look like someone from the Middle East holding a firehammer and after a couple of weeks the piece was reinstated. It wasn't a big moneymaker for me so if it didn't go my way I wouldn't be too upset, but did show how the Mouse's legal team can and will fire off blanket C&Ds just on a name alone without even looking at a piece sometimes.
I think as artists we def need to focus on our own “world” and characters. I use fanart as a temporary thing, but I don’t think it’s worth the risk in the end. Loved this discussion ❤
I just do both fan art and original work and fortunately, fan art isn't banned in the conventions I go to. My thought process has always been 80% original art and 20% fan art.
Making stickers at home can actually be a good investment as well. A decent supertank printer, bulk vinyl sticker sheets, and a cricut or other cutter can seem expensive upfront but will absolute pay for itself if you're selling a lot of stickers in the long run. PS. I have been a fan of your art for years and have loved seeing you make youtube content over the last couple years, keep up the great work!
This! I purchased the cheaper silloutte cutter last year. It paid for itself at the first convention ($3 stickers, or 3 for 7 was the price I used then) and I didn't have many stickers. They're also great for cutting out signage, price tags, etc. If you're making your own buttons, they're great for cutting your button blanks too. I get my more popular stickers professionally made now. If I want to test out a new design, or if I want to make something from a fandom that is niche and a bit obscure I'll cut them myself.
I find this so fascinating since when I sell at conventions, I avoid selling prints since it cost way too much to order designs and difficult to sell, whereas stickers are way cheaper to order and easier to sell. Definitely seems to depend on region.
I’m getting back into art after not being serious about it for like 20 years lol. I love fan art and that’s what I want to do so this video is extremely helpful. I would love a fan art series with different topics.
So interesting to see this from your perspective, I'm currently in the process of transitioning from fanart to OCs because I'm afraid of these things happening 😅
I think it’s pretty rare but you can never be to safe, the majority of what I offer is OG but I still have fanart. As you know some cons want vendors to have fanart, so it’s definitely hard to cut it completely.
I love Kehasuk so much! I had no idea 2014 was his first year at a convention. I still have his ruroken and yuyuhakusho from his first year then! Now I’ve got a wall covered in his work. He’s the man!
I got into the industry many years ago. I got noticed not for my style or technique, which were OK but nothing amazing, but because of my ideas. Established artists took notice and gave me encouragement and when I got my break, I was approached and told explicitly it was because of my original concepts. Not knocking fan art, but just saying if I'd have done fan art I would have got nowhere.
I currently work as a concept artist, and although I much prefer original work, I see unique takes of fan art all the time, it’s silly to think you can’t make an existing IP new or fresh, I would never get hired if I thought that way. original concepts can form in many different ways
Wow! 500 and 100 cons! Looking at your work and Kehasuk’s work right now I would have never thought how you guys started your AA journey. I always enjoy learning about other artists’ AA origin story and I think it should be discussed more on YT. Your video is so insightful (as always) and I’m excited for more.
Fantastic interview! really relevant information. Thank you so, so much for doing this. Art school does nothing for us in this regard, so this type of info is super vital adn appreciated
just make fanart. don't be scared of it. don't do it for others, but do it for yourself. you wanna draw some weird pokemon stuff, go ahead, being afraid of making fan content is only going to hold people back.
my stance on it is simple. Be, weird. Always be weird. wanna make grown up only stuff, go for it. wanna make weird spooky stuff, go for it. you wanna ship everyone together including the two princess sisters, do it. Don't let normalcy or some weird people online tell you not to. that said, don't like go in and start selling it. that's risky, yes I will buy all the pokemon mouse pads featuring rumps, but that is not exactly a smart idea, though Nintendo your missing a market, I want pikachu's bouncy booty.
The timing of this is kind of funny to me. I posted some nuclear fallout artwork on my Red bubble and they told me I couldn't use the word fallout for any of it because of that stupid game! The artwork had nothing to do with it either! No 1950s aesthetic, no oddly shaped soda, no weird smiley dude! It was just nuke stuff! It was like, really?! Just the word?!
That really sucks. I think I’d just separate the words, so Fall out instead. But they shouldn’t be able to close you down over the rod as it’s a legit word and if the art isn’t pulling from the game then it has nothing to do with it.
feel like with original work its such a huge gamble but if you take the time to build the narrative and connection to your following of original work it could be easier to stay afloat in artist alley (i just wanna do fanart sometimes tho 😭)
Been doing AA for running on 10 years and never had the problems kehasuk had. And I felt I was very heavy handed in fan art (although I really only did one IP, Pokemon) It seems now the main issue within halls are whether the artist used AI in the art or not. I think I may have vended at one of the shows kehasuk was at, if so, hello!
These are so nice! While I love your informative videos, these chill interviews help me get through the work week and I take a lot out of them. I like you also really don’t do fan art, although I had considered doing some video game fan art and making post cards for the locations in the games for cons. I find the background elements in many games so beautiful and inspiring. I feel like with fan art too everyone does the same characters over and over and you can get lost in the mix! But this made me feel a lot better about doing my own original things 😊
When I go to a convention I typically don't know any of the artists online. Maybe the one exception was light box expo, but otherwise I'm just there to see good art regardless of who it is or how big they are online.
Wow i just shared this incredible srt yesturday. Absolutely beautiful tribute to avatar. The way my eye went on a journey around that page. It really mirrored their adventures in the show to look at the piece like that. Real cool. 👏
I had a run in with Redbubble years ago. They took down something that resembled an X-men character which I thought would fall under parody laws. I responded with a link to another Redbubble account that had tons of sales and popularity selling straight up Marvel fanart. Redbubbles's response to me: "they are not allowed to discuss any legal issues surrounding other accounts".......which is fine, but I was left to feel that since I didn't bring Redbubble tons of revenue off of my art, they were quick to remove the item.
If you wanted to talk more about production of prints for cons i’d love to know what appropriate price ranges are for companies to offer for products! As well as how to estimate how many you might need for your first shows. Always love the interviews as a college student hoping to enter the scene :)
I’d love to see interviews with older professional veterans, I really want to know their journeys, what kind of profits they’re making, how many conventions they do (or when and why they stopped), the changes they’ve seen in artist alleys. I admire artists like James Gurney, Greg Simpkins, Allen Williams, and Michael Whelan- but when I look them up I don’t see these discussions like millennials and younger generations are having.
This was so inspiring!! Doing conventions has always been at the back of my mind to pursue one day, this video definitely got some ideas brewing to try to make it happen in the next couple years :D
16:40 is so important as an attendee who just found out my favorite game had a booth and I missed out participating inside as it was closing :( (Note: I go to Art Convention for Artist Alley before price hiked incredibly high, was in dealer room just for a friend)
There are a few mega corporations that will lay down the hammer on you - Disney, Warner Bros., NFL, Coca Cola, others might have experienced other companies as-well; oh, and NASCAR. I was a designer/art-director at a giftware company, and during that time I found out just how strict these companies are to do business with. The bigger, and well known a Con is, the bigger a lens will be on their property. Kehasuk you have a great eye for design, color, and illustration. Personally, I say keep going. And who knows, some day Disney, and other companies will probably scoop you up to do work for them - that happened to an Artist I met, while we both exhibited at FanExpo San Fran.👍🤘🙂
thats false lol Mickey Mouse belongs to "disney" If i make a silhouette of him..... they cant come after me. I can make a mouse that looks like him but not named Mickey and they cant do anything.
@@houndgirl7365 Under the “fair use” rule of copyright law, an author may make limited use of another author's work without asking permission. Sorry princess lol
The thing about commercial fanart is that most of the value lies behind a huge IP , no matter how well you painted an art. You benefit from the heavy marketing done by those big corp, those trial and error developing a sucessful IP , cost of making a character design, all those cost huge sum of money and its not even guarantee that a IP/design will become sucessful. A fanart based on a establish IP gets exposure way way easily compared to a original , you know the design going to work , you know the fans gonna see it , in other words its a low risk high reward approach. Doing fanart for portfolio its kinda gray, but doing commercially will get you into big trouble especially those big corps.
Fanart should not be pursued for copyright infringement because they are not Copies on the strict meaning of the Word. They are a completely new artwork inspired by an existing character. Currently copyright law treats fanart and copying an original picture from Google and making mugs or tshirts as the same, while they are very different situations. One is a strict copy and another is a piece of creativity. Pursuing fanart is limiting creativity and damaging small artists because of money interests of Big companies. Law is not always synonym of correctness. What is more important? Money or creativity? Making fanart generates a HUGE imaginary that makes thousand of artists inspire each other and generates cultural content everyday. Law should definetely change to stop pursuing creativity.
As someone who only made an Insta to file copyright reports of my own work, it sounds like the Insta takedown was probably someone maliciously pretending to be you or a lawyer representing you. Usually unless there's a legal entity involved you have to provide a link to the exact art being posted (not just an IP), so I really doubt it was an IP thing, it was likely some yahoo making stuff up and false striking multiple pieces. He should also have received emails about each strike that would include the details of the allegations. Super crappy that Insta allowed that to happen, I'd be so frustrated!
I do original only unless its commisson (cause I have so many of my own ideas). there is a thing about how its hard to get into a show, plus with that demand and cost to set up, the price of artist alley tables are getting to the dealers price point (add fan artists buying 2 tables, ect). I stick to smaller local shows, but even those are getting 300- 600 per table (well megacon is large, but it used to be 200...) obviously if its a pro or major con like AX, its just expected (and why I never bothered to sign up since its just way too expensive to fly over). side note, you and your editor look like siblings?
Would love to find out what both your guys favourite con circuits are. I'm from New Zealand and have been considering a US trip just for the cons - I hear Gen and Dragon Con, but would love to know if you have a 'I'm looking forward to the next 4 weekends of x and y con'
I think I'm unfortunately at that point that I know too much that the idea of getting a con booth at this point is completely out of reach in the near future.
what's the best place to order prints from. I don't know what good pricing is because I'm new to this but that last time I got prints I got 10 11x17 prints for $67. is that standard or can I find better???
Not sure what types of prints you had done ( paper, metal, chrome, etc. ), but I can tell you from experience, Ready Comics is a good source. And they are easy to deal with, and pack great.
Disney or any company has the legal right to take down something you sell if they have the merchandising rights to that IP. Merchandising rights are what refer to pretty much anything that exists in the physical world in relation to an IP
Find a local shop. Print shops are all over the place, they just are off the main roads in industrial areas more often than not. Google maps is a great resource for finding these weird hidden professional services that you'd never otherwise know exist. If they don't do art prints they may still know another one who does.
@@boomrattleboom i do not and honestly ive been recluse from creating until recently. I'm around as pseemakes if you're interested! (Also feel free to delete if this isn't allowed!)
I'm also an Etsy seller, and have had Ghibli stickers taken down. It sucked because I was super proud of them. With that said... I could never pay for a table with stickers. I have to sell lots of medium-sized prints and apparel to get my numbers up.
22:44 I actually prefer to buy more practical products so tbh I never buy from artists who ONLY have prints Prints are always more expensive, you worry about ruining them in transport/storage, and you can only ever collect/hang them
I got the Ghibli prints before they got taken down. This makes me sad because those gold foil prints are beautiful and were the piece that put me on to Dustins work.
Etsy put me in copyright jail taking down some original art I did that had nothing to do with Harry Potter. I posted a painting of a black cat with bat wings sitting on a spell book with round glasses on and magic roiling around her. Etsy kept taking it down, I would put it back up and they would take it down again. Finally I sent a greeting card with the image to the company CEO that I thought had the rights to produce merch for Harry Potter and got a response from their lawyer. We had a chat, and he basically gave me a letter in writing they do not recognize my art as being their property. Since then the picture in question has not been taken down. Part of me thinks Etsy's AI is responsible for the whole thing but I don't know that for certain. I tend to take the Shawshank approach to these situations and almost always it works out. Write a letter a day until they respond. lol
From my small experience, do fan art but dont bother selling them online without writen permission. also be prepared for companies to steal your artwork and get copyright strikes. not even from the IP owner. I was younger and tried selling rick and morty/doctor who/ Back to the future fan art. it was a big crossover image of all three in a band. I had chinese companies steal it and sell low res images on shirts and material and strike down my design. better off selling your own og work online and try selling fan art at conventions if they allow it.
cant believe this! its messed up. i got into art BECAUSE of fanart and i absolutely love making fanart..i cant imagine being kicked out for making it, just seems like so much bullshit! what a mess!
With how corporatized and "no fun allowed" a lot of cons have become, I'm surprised some eccentrics haven't banded together to make some new ones. After all, that's how cons started in the first place!
9:00 100 percent Disney has that right. They paid for North American distribution and licensing rights. Hence, they have the legal right to go after unauthorized products.
I’m not going to pretend to know whats all involved in their contract together I’m sure they have been given that right in some way, but that’s not typically how distribution or licensing rights work. Multiple companies can have licensing rights at the same time, perhaps a non compete component would be a bigger issue but again I would have to see their contact.
It's really not a grey area. If you don't have permission from the copyright owner (either individually or collectively), you are in violation of unlawful exploitation of their copyright. The owner of that intellectual property can choose when, where, and how to enforce their rights and against whom. So their choice or ignorance in not enforcing their rights against someone else doesn't give you permission by transference. Where you GENERALLY have a loophole is in the sale of unique pieces. An edition of one is not usually subject to Cease and Desist as legal precedent has upheld the right to parody, satire, and appropriation art in instances where it is unique or transformative. Where most people get in trouble for violating copyrights at comic and video game conventions is by selling prints. There are people that full-on use other people's art and make them into editions which is a double violation and an easy-to-prosecute violation that detriments the value of the held rights. And there are artists who sell prints of their own redraws of other artists' published work, which is easy to argue as non-transformative and also detrimental to the value of held intellectual property. Basically, unless you work out a deal with Marvel, you shouldn't be selling prints of Spider-man whether you drew it or not. It's best for you to promote your original characters using the best imagery you've ever created on a banner or flag or some other type of highly visible display motif, and then have a unique, original painting or illustration of a popular character (preferably from a publisher or media company that allows fair use and sees it as free promotion for them) also easily visible to foot traffic in your booth or displayed prominently in a nice frame on an easel on your table as an example for fans to solicit commissions. If you are a digital artist, a 1/1 litho with a remark qualifies as unique (more on that in a moment). That's where the real money is for a relatively unknown artist. This helps you create buzz for your original work and showcases that you can excel at drawing other things, too. While publishing your own illustrations of other people's copyrighted work is illegal, it's actually not that difficult to get permission to print it as long as you include text of an educational or journalistic nature alongside it. And ALWAYS include a copyright notice on behalf of the intellectual property owner. You are much more likely to be able to defend that as Fair Use if they get litigious. When I published an 80 page giant about comic art I contacted each publisher whose imagery was included and I got permission from each of them -including Disney who had just purchased Marvel (they actually responded faster than anyone else). Keep a print-out of that correspondence in your booth (or at your table) at all times since some conventions have their own employees scouting the floor for what they think are glaring violations, and some publishers also have teams of copyright enforcers patrolling various shows and they definitely don't know what permissions or agreements you have in place. In lieu of the educational or journalistic route, publishing an ashcan of your drawings of other people's intellectual property is generally overlooked if you sign each unit with a simple Remarque, because you have just made each unit unique. But definitely include the copyright notice for each character on the actual page that features the artwork (it can be small and near the inner gutter of the page or at the bottom) but also include a separate notice on a table of contents or an indicia that reads something like this: "All illustrations are the work of [your name] with limited permission of the individual copyright holders (as indicated individually herein) [copyright symbol] [year]. All Rights Reserved" This will shield you from a lot bullish*t, but you are only 100% protected if you have written permission. @inkwell I'm happy to appear on your show to discuss my MANY battles that have arisen from appropriation art.
That's crazy to lose an account over intricate and well-drawn fan art. I don't have any issue with artists drawing fan art and selling it at conventions, but I get annoyed if the artists claim they don't play/ watch/ know the IP that well yet draw them to sell. I've seen a few big-name artists boast about not caring about a certain TV show and yet sell fan art prints based on those shows. That's insincere and I avoid those artists.
We gotta admit that fan art implies your work isn’t 100% your art. You’re using another artist’s ideas and fanbase to attract attention to your own art. You can tell us how much fanart sells compared to an original concepts of yours.
If someone was making money from “fa art” of my work, I’d be mad too. They may just be faceless corporations to you, but there are hundreds of artists who make a living there. I don’t know.
I've always thought it was so stupid of companies to go after fan creators. They are filling gaps for the fanbase that the company either won't or can't for whatever reason. They are keeping the IP's in the public consciousness. They aren't costing the parent company money because the fans of that media have either already spent their money on merchandise from the company, or can't afford the high prices the parent company sets.
The only instance when I see fully justified to go after fan artists is when their body of work is objectively disrespectful and goes in detriment of the overall image of the original work. It is something that I would like to see enforced more by copyright owners, since the objective is not an artistic interpretation that gives free well intended promotion and enriches the community but just plainly make money easily by corrupting the original material.
"Fan art" is still the theft of an IP. The reasons companies come down like hammers is that they have developed, copyrighted and own those characters. While drawing fan art is acceptable when you are 10 years old doodling in your bedroom, it is entirely different to try to sell someone else's IP in your artwork and say it's fan art. That's why the law is there. Thank you for this interview. It brings awareness to this issue. And gives the great advice to go make your own original artwork. I hate "fan art" like I hate AI.
Some companies are cool with it, it's not as black and white as that. SE allow artists to sell FFXIV art as long as it's not using their assets. They actually mention this in the video (did you watch it?), you don't need to white knight these massive corporations lol. They decide what's theft of their IP.
It's a bit of a strange hill to die on because fanart can be completely original other than the characters featured. Would you say a painting of a scenic vista with a cute cottage is as bad as AI art, because it's art of a cottage somebody else designed and built?
Oh also some areas absolutely thrive off of fanart- vtubers are designed with fanartists in mind, where they want the design to be easily reproducible to encourage fans to make art of their favourite vtubers. Those vtuber designs are still the intellectual property of the company, and as such it's unlikely that the fan artists can monetize their art without collaborating directly, but as a result this collaboration happens quite a lot and fan artists are hired to make merch or other monetizable content for the company. Sorry for all the replies but it's such a big topic with so much nuance and seeing someone just go "thing bad >:(" is quite frustrating lol
"I'm just dumb enough to keep going" is the best quote to describe being a pro artist lmao! I love it.
Love how punk rock it is that he started by just setting up outside of a con that he didn't get into
A real one for sure 🦑
That's a very risky move in itself. Some conventions don't allow unauthorized vendors to do any kind of dealings (they worry about what's being sold and if they are reporting taxes on it) but could affect entry in future years. Right outside the perimeter seems safe too but just soooo risky
That's how the musician Alec Benjamin started, he would perform for people waiting in line to get into concerts then hand out his business card. He would make lists of what artists were performing where and just travel all over to play outside of them. Sometimes that's just what you need to do to succeed. It shows such an incredible amount of dedication to me! =^_^= It makes me feel like I need to work harder like they were too lol
@@LynsArt If they're not gonna let you in anyway, there's no reason to not do this.
I really appreciate hearing this. I'm an original artist and I constantly feel pressure that I should be making fanart but I don't have the energy to deal with the potential of IP strikes. I also like focusing on my characters and their stories. So much so I started working on a graphic novel with my best friend to make a full blown story and it's been awesome seeing people see the art and come up and start asking where the characters are from because they don't recognize them but they connect with what they see.
I really love to see artists doing their own original art and stories as you are doing, instead of fan art.
I'm glad people are connecting with your characters and graphic novel, and I wish you the best of luck for the future!
Ya don't fall into the fanart trap. It's a legal nightmare. Literally all thos dudes work could land him a lawsuit if the ip holders are feeling froggy. It literally takes 1 young corporate lawyer who wants a raise ans he'd be in a world of hurt. , and good luck arguing fair use when selling 1:1 characters of established IP as fanart. It's a slam dunk case every thing you sold 😂 is proof of losses for the IP holder.
don't be afraid of making fanart. however, only do it for fun. don't let weird nay sayers attack you for it.
I found the question about fan art vs original to be interesting. Looking back on my artist alley shopping experience two things drive my purchases 1.) fan art for an obscure series that has little merch or is an obscure chara. Or if it is a very unique take on the work. 2.) original art that captures a feeling or style that speaks to me. I think I lean about 60% fan art and 40% original when it comes to purchases. One of the neatest things I've picked up at the local conbini mart (run by the local con, AStL) was a rainbow window decal. The idea of it being an original item that no one else had, worked on me. Do I want a strawberry that will project a rainbow into my living room? Yes. As a person who has been known to drop several hundred on fan art during a con weekend, the trick that will catch me as a buyer is a little bit of everything and wide range of prices.
I want to draw Dororo from Keroro Gunsou anime as a professional artist legally someday. ❤❤❤❤❤
My friend from the gamedev industry told me, that one of the workers from the popular game company had shared with her that they can't officially allow selling fanart (and they have it in their ToS) but they won't do anything if somebody sells it. When somebody asks them in the e-mail then yes, they have to decline but if you won't ask them, then you're fine. And it's a really popular IP. That got me thinking.
I think it’s mostly a legal protection thing, but many companies seem to like it, you see some game studio even sharing fanart on their socials on the regular.
It’s not rocket science really…
They wanna protect their IP.
Every art that comes out of these companies have an approval process and these artists follow guidelines.
If you wanna sell your art and people know you represent the company, you might end up distributing art, as an employee, that wasn’t approved and can skew the original artistic concept.
If it’s deemed as fanart and it’s not public who worked on it, and you’re not selling this image in bulk, then the rules can be bent. It’s still not ideal in the companies’ eyes
Copyright is a broken law. It's only used to fuck over the small guy. Keep that in mind.
its one of those things where its nice but dont draw attention to it
Another great discussion. Kehasuk's work (including that banned Naruto print) is really impressive, and yet he's such a humble, chill dude.
Really appreciated this interview, the insights from both of you were really helpful to me as someone who's still pretty green when it comes to the con scene. Right now 98% of art I sell is original work and in print form, fan art isn't really my jam but I'll draw a piece or two of something I really like a lot.
I had a piece of mine hit with a C&D from Disney on Redbubble a few years ago, I did a digital piece of Thor I had up for sale, but not the MCU/Marvel comics version but a more brown-skinned god of thunder with a more fiery hammer than lightning. I pleaded my case, basically citing that Disney's and Marvel's version of Thor didn't look like someone from the Middle East holding a firehammer and after a couple of weeks the piece was reinstated. It wasn't a big moneymaker for me so if it didn't go my way I wouldn't be too upset, but did show how the Mouse's legal team can and will fire off blanket C&Ds just on a name alone without even looking at a piece sometimes.
I’ve seen this issue happen a lot especially on sites like Etsy. ☠️
@@Inkwell We need someone like Louis Rossmann with "Right to Repair" but for "Right for Fan Art"
I think as artists we def need to focus on our own “world” and characters. I use fanart as a temporary thing, but I don’t think it’s worth the risk in the end. Loved this discussion ❤
I just do both fan art and original work and fortunately, fan art isn't banned in the conventions I go to. My thought process has always been 80% original art and 20% fan art.
That’s around what I do as well
Making stickers at home can actually be a good investment as well. A decent supertank printer, bulk vinyl sticker sheets, and a cricut or other cutter can seem expensive upfront but will absolute pay for itself if you're selling a lot of stickers in the long run. PS. I have been a fan of your art for years and have loved seeing you make youtube content over the last couple years, keep up the great work!
this is the way
This! I purchased the cheaper silloutte cutter last year. It paid for itself at the first convention ($3 stickers, or 3 for 7 was the price I used then) and I didn't have many stickers. They're also great for cutting out signage, price tags, etc. If you're making your own buttons, they're great for cutting your button blanks too.
I get my more popular stickers professionally made now. If I want to test out a new design, or if I want to make something from a fandom that is niche and a bit obscure I'll cut them myself.
I find this so fascinating since when I sell at conventions, I avoid selling prints since it cost way too much to order designs and difficult to sell, whereas stickers are way cheaper to order and easier to sell. Definitely seems to depend on region.
I’m getting back into art after not being serious about it for like 20 years lol. I love fan art and that’s what I want to do so this video is extremely helpful. I would love a fan art series with different topics.
Thanks for watching! I’ll keep that in mind
So interesting to see this from your perspective, I'm currently in the process of transitioning from fanart to OCs because I'm afraid of these things happening 😅
I think it’s pretty rare but you can never be to safe, the majority of what I offer is OG but I still have fanart. As you know some cons want vendors to have fanart, so it’s definitely hard to cut it completely.
I love Kehasuk so much! I had no idea 2014 was his first year at a convention. I still have his ruroken and yuyuhakusho from his first year then! Now I’ve got a wall covered in his work. He’s the man!
You never know how many people are hiding in Dustin's room, waiting to pop up in the middle of a video
Secret Guest speakers hiding everywhere!
I got into the industry many years ago. I got noticed not for my style or technique, which were OK but nothing amazing, but because of my ideas. Established artists took notice and gave me encouragement and when I got my break, I was approached and told explicitly it was because of my original concepts. Not knocking fan art, but just saying if I'd have done fan art I would have got nowhere.
I currently work as a concept artist, and although I much prefer original work, I see unique takes of fan art all the time, it’s silly to think you can’t make an existing IP new or fresh, I would never get hired if I thought that way. original concepts can form in many different ways
Wow! 500 and 100 cons! Looking at your work and Kehasuk’s work right now I would have never thought how you guys started your AA journey. I always enjoy learning about other artists’ AA origin story and I think it should be discussed more on YT. Your video is so insightful (as always) and I’m excited for more.
Fantastic interview! really relevant information. Thank you so, so much for doing this. Art school does nothing for us in this regard, so this type of info is super vital adn appreciated
just make fanart. don't be scared of it. don't do it for others, but do it for yourself. you wanna draw some weird pokemon stuff, go ahead, being afraid of making fan content is only going to hold people back.
my stance on it is simple. Be, weird. Always be weird. wanna make grown up only stuff, go for it. wanna make weird spooky stuff, go for it. you wanna ship everyone together including the two princess sisters, do it. Don't let normalcy or some weird people online tell you not to.
that said, don't like go in and start selling it. that's risky, yes I will buy all the pokemon mouse pads featuring rumps, but that is not exactly a smart idea, though Nintendo your missing a market, I want pikachu's bouncy booty.
I love your content Dustin, thank you for being so open about the industry, it's very genuinely helpful
Happy to help, and thanks for watching!
I've had the pleasure of meeting Kehasuk several times. Great artist and even greater guy!
Dealer's Hall FTW! You get more space to display more art. And you can really make your booth become an experience.
Loved this! It's always great hearing from others that the things you're thinking about on certain topics are what other people are also thinking.
Thanks for watching!
The timing of this is kind of funny to me. I posted some nuclear fallout artwork on my Red bubble and they told me I couldn't use the word fallout for any of it because of that stupid game! The artwork had nothing to do with it either! No 1950s aesthetic, no oddly shaped soda, no weird smiley dude! It was just nuke stuff! It was like, really?! Just the word?!
That really sucks. I think I’d just separate the words, so Fall out instead. But they shouldn’t be able to close you down over the rod as it’s a legit word and if the art isn’t pulling from the game then it has nothing to do with it.
feel like with original work its such a huge gamble but if you take the time to build the narrative and connection to your following of original work it could be easier to stay afloat in artist alley (i just wanna do fanart sometimes tho 😭)
Why not both 🤣
Been doing AA for running on 10 years and never had the problems kehasuk had. And I felt I was very heavy handed in fan art (although I really only did one IP, Pokemon) It seems now the main issue within halls are whether the artist used AI in the art or not. I think I may have vended at one of the shows kehasuk was at, if so, hello!
Y'all had a great vibe in that interview. Thanks for all the insights.
When you coming on?
Thank you for talking about this! Not many people know about the fan art policies for different IPs and love hearing how you guys started out!
These are so nice! While I love your informative videos, these chill interviews help me get through the work week and I take a lot out of them. I like you also really don’t do fan art, although I had considered doing some video game fan art and making post cards for the locations in the games for cons. I find the background elements in many games so beautiful and inspiring. I feel like with fan art too everyone does the same characters over and over and you can get lost in the mix! But this made me feel a lot better about doing my own original things 😊
So wonderful to hear your voice Dustin! Love to see you crushing it out there!
thanks! hope you're doing well
Love the interviews. Please do more.
😉✨
9:00 Great question! Fanart is a 100% a nuance gray area, but I think it's important to make it anyway however we can for the sake of joy and fandom.
Professor Inkwell artist alley 😮💛
🦑
This was super insightful because I'm also adjusting my prints and exploring more merch options, so this was great food for thought!
Hope it helps!
When I go to a convention I typically don't know any of the artists online. Maybe the one exception was light box expo, but otherwise I'm just there to see good art regardless of who it is or how big they are online.
Kehasuk is a convention sage!
Wow i just shared this incredible srt yesturday. Absolutely beautiful tribute to avatar. The way my eye went on a journey around that page. It really mirrored their adventures in the show to look at the piece like that. Real cool. 👏
listened the whole way through, good job!
Kehasuk seems so chill! Loved this interview
I had a run in with Redbubble years ago. They took down something that resembled an X-men character which I thought would fall under parody laws. I responded with a link to another Redbubble account that had tons of sales and popularity selling straight up Marvel fanart. Redbubbles's response to me: "they are not allowed to discuss any legal issues surrounding other accounts".......which is fine, but I was left to feel that since I didn't bring Redbubble tons of revenue off of my art, they were quick to remove the item.
If you wanted to talk more about production of prints for cons i’d love to know what appropriate price ranges are for companies to offer for products! As well as how to estimate how many you might need for your first shows. Always love the interviews as a college student hoping to enter the scene :)
I’d love to see interviews with older professional veterans, I really want to know their journeys, what kind of profits they’re making, how many conventions they do (or when and why they stopped), the changes they’ve seen in artist alleys. I admire artists like James Gurney, Greg Simpkins, Allen Williams, and Michael Whelan- but when I look them up I don’t see these discussions like millennials and younger generations are having.
This was so inspiring!! Doing conventions has always been at the back of my mind to pursue one day, this video definitely got some ideas brewing to try to make it happen in the next couple years :D
I remember seeing him at the Cherry Blossom Festival last year in SF! I remember that Naruto piece and some of the others that he has done.
Connecticon my top show for 2 yrs straight now 😂😂 shoutout connecticon
Great video as always! You provide such great honest info and perspective!
🦑🦑🦑 my squids thank you for watching
Thats like setting up a grill outside of mcdonalds.
0:00 I’m clicking on this cuz this is so wild to me
Conventions are THE PLACE to buy fanart
Cons are almost entirely fanart in the artist alley
16:40 is so important as an attendee who just found out my favorite game had a booth and I missed out participating inside as it was closing :(
(Note: I go to Art Convention for Artist Alley before price hiked incredibly high, was in dealer room just for a friend)
I'm just here for Aaron the editor 😌
Same
There are a few mega corporations that will lay down the hammer on you - Disney, Warner Bros., NFL, Coca Cola, others might have experienced other companies as-well; oh, and NASCAR.
I was a designer/art-director at a giftware company, and during that time I found out just how strict these companies are to do business with.
The bigger, and well known a Con is, the bigger a lens will be on their property.
Kehasuk you have a great eye for design, color, and illustration. Personally, I say keep going. And who knows, some day Disney, and other companies will probably scoop you up to do work for them - that happened to an Artist I met, while we both exhibited at FanExpo San Fran.👍🤘🙂
thats false lol Mickey Mouse belongs to "disney" If i make a silhouette of him..... they cant come after me. I can make a mouse that looks like him but not named Mickey and they cant do anything.
@kool4209 fun fact they list their patent on that character xD so yes people can use that character in their art if they wish.
@@houndgirl7365 Under the “fair use” rule of copyright law, an author may make limited use of another author's work without asking permission.
Sorry princess lol
The thing about commercial fanart is that most of the value lies behind a huge IP , no matter how well you painted an art.
You benefit from the heavy marketing done by those big corp, those trial and error developing a sucessful IP , cost of making a character design, all those cost huge sum of money and its not even guarantee that a IP/design will become sucessful.
A fanart based on a establish IP gets exposure way way easily compared to a original , you know the design going to work , you know the fans gonna see it , in other words its a low risk high reward approach.
Doing fanart for portfolio its kinda gray, but doing commercially will get you into big trouble especially those big corps.
Fanart should not be pursued for copyright infringement because they are not Copies on the strict meaning of the Word. They are a completely new artwork inspired by an existing character. Currently copyright law treats fanart and copying an original picture from Google and making mugs or tshirts as the same, while they are very different situations. One is a strict copy and another is a piece of creativity. Pursuing fanart is limiting creativity and damaging small artists because of money interests of Big companies. Law is not always synonym of correctness. What is more important? Money or creativity? Making fanart generates a HUGE imaginary that makes thousand of artists inspire each other and generates cultural content everyday. Law should definetely change to stop pursuing creativity.
I fully agree, ✨
As someone who only made an Insta to file copyright reports of my own work, it sounds like the Insta takedown was probably someone maliciously pretending to be you or a lawyer representing you. Usually unless there's a legal entity involved you have to provide a link to the exact art being posted (not just an IP), so I really doubt it was an IP thing, it was likely some yahoo making stuff up and false striking multiple pieces. He should also have received emails about each strike that would include the details of the allegations. Super crappy that Insta allowed that to happen, I'd be so frustrated!
I do original only unless its commisson (cause I have so many of my own ideas). there is a thing about how its hard to get into a show, plus with that demand and cost to set up, the price of artist alley tables are getting to the dealers price point (add fan artists buying 2 tables, ect). I stick to smaller local shows, but even those are getting 300- 600 per table (well megacon is large, but it used to be 200...) obviously if its a pro or major con like AX, its just expected (and why I never bothered to sign up since its just way too expensive to fly over).
side note, you and your editor look like siblings?
Would love to find out what both your guys favourite con circuits are. I'm from New Zealand and have been considering a US trip just for the cons - I hear Gen and Dragon Con, but would love to know if you have a 'I'm looking forward to the next 4 weekends of x and y con'
Inkwell has a whole video on this!
ua-cam.com/video/n4WEbcYvPxo/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
I think I'm unfortunately at that point that I know too much that the idea of getting a con booth at this point is completely out of reach in the near future.
Love the interviews!
He's so right about knowing too much because I'm definitely scared to even start posting art content because there are people better than me. 😭
Gotta start somewhere! You got this!
Dope content, Dustin. Hopefully one of these days we will meet at a convention.
I’m at enough of them its bound to happen!
I'm here for the drama
We know 😘
what's the best place to order prints from. I don't know what good pricing is because I'm new to this but that last time I got prints I got 10 11x17 prints for $67. is that standard or can I find better???
Try Catprint, I used to use them before I got my own printer.
Not sure what types of prints you had done ( paper, metal, chrome, etc. ), but I can tell you from experience, Ready Comics is a good source. And they are easy to deal with, and pack great.
All the exact reason I want to show my art featuring the Japanese female nude, especially as my own art subject. 💜🦋
great interview. can you check the levels next time? Kehasuk was kinda low for most of it.
Disney or any company has the legal right to take down something you sell if they have the merchandising rights to that IP. Merchandising rights are what refer to pretty much anything that exists in the physical world in relation to an IP
People in the comments, please suggest your favorite affordable US print service to order from. I need to get prints made. Can't decide.
Find a local shop. Print shops are all over the place, they just are off the main roads in industrial areas more often than not. Google maps is a great resource for finding these weird hidden professional services that you'd never otherwise know exist. If they don't do art prints they may still know another one who does.
I got copyright striked on etsy and it scared me from making fanart. Now I gotta try harder to come up with something original!
@@boomrattleboom i do not and honestly ive been recluse from creating until recently. I'm around as pseemakes if you're interested! (Also feel free to delete if this isn't allowed!)
@@psee I’ll check out pseemakes. Thx.
I'm also an Etsy seller, and have had Ghibli stickers taken down. It sucked because I was super proud of them. With that said... I could never pay for a table with stickers. I have to sell lots of medium-sized prints and apparel to get my numbers up.
22:44 I actually prefer to buy more practical products so tbh I never buy from artists who ONLY have prints
Prints are always more expensive, you worry about ruining them in transport/storage, and you can only ever collect/hang them
Always take something away from these talks. Although I live in Germany. Thank you!
If I’m not mistaken i think Japan deals more in Trademark over copyright, which has a different context.
Kris! 👊👊
I got the Ghibli prints before they got taken down. This makes me sad because those gold foil prints are beautiful and were the piece that put me on to Dustins work.
Etsy put me in copyright jail taking down some original art I did that had nothing to do with Harry Potter. I posted a painting of a black cat with bat wings sitting on a spell book with round glasses on and magic roiling around her. Etsy kept taking it down, I would put it back up and they would take it down again. Finally I sent a greeting card with the image to the company CEO that I thought had the rights to produce merch for Harry Potter and got a response from their lawyer. We had a chat, and he basically gave me a letter in writing they do not recognize my art as being their property. Since then the picture in question has not been taken down. Part of me thinks Etsy's AI is responsible for the whole thing but I don't know that for certain. I tend to take the Shawshank approach to these situations and almost always it works out. Write a letter a day until they respond. lol
2:53 ah, I don't think I should be watching this video hahaha. Oh well, I'll just keep my expectations low whenever I start
not me getting hyped when you mentioned connecticon as your first gig because its my hometown con, then you immediately shittalking it 💀
loved the interview btw this just made me laugh
From my small experience, do fan art but dont bother selling them online without writen permission. also be prepared for companies to steal your artwork and get copyright strikes. not even from the IP owner. I was younger and tried selling rick and morty/doctor who/ Back to the future fan art. it was a big crossover image of all three in a band. I had chinese companies steal it and sell low res images on shirts and material and strike down my design. better off selling your own og work online and try selling fan art at conventions if they allow it.
cant believe this! its messed up. i got into art BECAUSE of fanart and i absolutely love making fanart..i cant imagine being kicked out for making it, just seems like so much bullshit!
what a mess!
On copy right issue if the art is older than 20 years it shouldn't be a problem
can u sell fanarts of real people like singers but drawn in a cartoon style?
Inkwell, I would far rather see you and your booth than stand in line to "see" a celeb who doesn't really give a crap about me.
Disney lost the Studio Ghibli distribution rights for the US in 2011. GKIDS has been the official US distributor since then ;)
With how corporatized and "no fun allowed" a lot of cons have become, I'm surprised some eccentrics haven't banded together to make some new ones. After all, that's how cons started in the first place!
9:00 100 percent Disney has that right. They paid for North American distribution and licensing rights. Hence, they have the legal right to go after unauthorized products.
I’m not going to pretend to know whats all involved in their contract together I’m sure they have been given that right in some way, but that’s not typically how distribution or licensing rights work. Multiple companies can have licensing rights at the same time, perhaps a non compete component would be a bigger issue but again I would have to see their contact.
It's really not a grey area. If you don't have permission from the copyright owner (either individually or collectively), you are in violation of unlawful exploitation of their copyright. The owner of that intellectual property can choose when, where, and how to enforce their rights and against whom. So their choice or ignorance in not enforcing their rights against someone else doesn't give you permission by transference. Where you GENERALLY have a loophole is in the sale of unique pieces. An edition of one is not usually subject to Cease and Desist as legal precedent has upheld the right to parody, satire, and appropriation art in instances where it is unique or transformative. Where most people get in trouble for violating copyrights at comic and video game conventions is by selling prints. There are people that full-on use other people's art and make them into editions which is a double violation and an easy-to-prosecute violation that detriments the value of the held rights. And there are artists who sell prints of their own redraws of other artists' published work, which is easy to argue as non-transformative and also detrimental to the value of held intellectual property. Basically, unless you work out a deal with Marvel, you shouldn't be selling prints of Spider-man whether you drew it or not.
It's best for you to promote your original characters using the best imagery you've ever created on a banner or flag or some other type of highly visible display motif, and then have a unique, original painting or illustration of a popular character (preferably from a publisher or media company that allows fair use and sees it as free promotion for them) also easily visible to foot traffic in your booth or displayed prominently in a nice frame on an easel on your table as an example for fans to solicit commissions. If you are a digital artist, a 1/1 litho with a remark qualifies as unique (more on that in a moment). That's where the real money is for a relatively unknown artist. This helps you create buzz for your original work and showcases that you can excel at drawing other things, too.
While publishing your own illustrations of other people's copyrighted work is illegal, it's actually not that difficult to get permission to print it as long as you include text of an educational or journalistic nature alongside it. And ALWAYS include a copyright notice on behalf of the intellectual property owner. You are much more likely to be able to defend that as Fair Use if they get litigious. When I published an 80 page giant about comic art I contacted each publisher whose imagery was included and I got permission from each of them -including Disney who had just purchased Marvel (they actually responded faster than anyone else). Keep a print-out of that correspondence in your booth (or at your table) at all times since some conventions have their own employees scouting the floor for what they think are glaring violations, and some publishers also have teams of copyright enforcers patrolling various shows and they definitely don't know what permissions or agreements you have in place.
In lieu of the educational or journalistic route, publishing an ashcan of your drawings of other people's intellectual property is generally overlooked if you sign each unit with a simple Remarque, because you have just made each unit unique. But definitely include the copyright notice for each character on the actual page that features the artwork (it can be small and near the inner gutter of the page or at the bottom) but also include a separate notice on a table of contents or an indicia that reads something like this:
"All illustrations are the work of [your name] with limited permission of the individual copyright holders (as indicated individually herein) [copyright symbol] [year]. All Rights Reserved"
This will shield you from a lot bullish*t, but you are only 100% protected if you have written permission.
@inkwell I'm happy to appear on your show to discuss my MANY battles that have arisen from appropriation art.
"I feel like I'm just dumb enough to keep going" lol
Tables are so expensive! And often they make you pay admission too lol even if you win the table
6:40 personally I’d only sell fanart I wanted to make in the first place
That's crazy to lose an account over intricate and well-drawn fan art. I don't have any issue with artists drawing fan art and selling it at conventions, but I get annoyed if the artists claim they don't play/ watch/ know the IP that well yet draw them to sell. I've seen a few big-name artists boast about not caring about a certain TV show and yet sell fan art prints based on those shows. That's insincere and I avoid those artists.
Bro met David Tennant, woah.
When you are Tadashi from big Hero6 without realizing it.
We gotta admit that fan art implies your work isn’t 100% your art.
You’re using another artist’s ideas and fanbase to attract attention to your own art.
You can tell us how much fanart sells compared to an original concepts of yours.
"Laughs in Yoko Taro appreciation"
If someone was making money from “fa art” of my work, I’d be mad too. They may just be faceless corporations to you, but there are hundreds of artists who make a living there. I don’t know.
maybe competing fan art people are reporting? Like how people abuse UA-cam?
I've always thought it was so stupid of companies to go after fan creators. They are filling gaps for the fanbase that the company either won't or can't for whatever reason. They are keeping the IP's in the public consciousness. They aren't costing the parent company money because the fans of that media have either already spent their money on merchandise from the company, or can't afford the high prices the parent company sets.
insta banned me because i was scrolling too fast :D
I heard Disney lost its gibli rights!
Thank god, they cant own everything
The only instance when I see fully justified to go after fan artists is when their body of work is objectively disrespectful and goes in detriment of the overall image of the original work. It is something that I would like to see enforced more by copyright owners, since the objective is not an artistic interpretation that gives free well intended promotion and enriches the community but just plainly make money easily by corrupting the original material.
"Fan art" is still the theft of an IP. The reasons companies come down like hammers is that they have developed, copyrighted and own those characters. While drawing fan art is acceptable when you are 10 years old doodling in your bedroom, it is entirely different to try to sell someone else's IP in your artwork and say it's fan art. That's why the law is there. Thank you for this interview. It brings awareness to this issue. And gives the great advice to go make your own original artwork. I hate "fan art" like I hate AI.
narc
Some companies are cool with it, it's not as black and white as that. SE allow artists to sell FFXIV art as long as it's not using their assets. They actually mention this in the video (did you watch it?), you don't need to white knight these massive corporations lol. They decide what's theft of their IP.
It's a bit of a strange hill to die on because fanart can be completely original other than the characters featured. Would you say a painting of a scenic vista with a cute cottage is as bad as AI art, because it's art of a cottage somebody else designed and built?
Oh also some areas absolutely thrive off of fanart- vtubers are designed with fanartists in mind, where they want the design to be easily reproducible to encourage fans to make art of their favourite vtubers. Those vtuber designs are still the intellectual property of the company, and as such it's unlikely that the fan artists can monetize their art without collaborating directly, but as a result this collaboration happens quite a lot and fan artists are hired to make merch or other monetizable content for the company.
Sorry for all the replies but it's such a big topic with so much nuance and seeing someone just go "thing bad >:(" is quite frustrating lol
Gay.