I have followed your channel for a while now, and your experience with the Bolt convinced us to purchase a used 2021 last December. The savings over our 2023 Maverick eco boost has been substantial.
Yes, but those losses are already factored into your mpg calculations. The charging efficiency might fly under the radar, so we're trying to account for it.
Here in 🇨🇦 I charge at home. 5 cents a kWh charging 11 pm to 7 am . I drive roughly 3000 km per month. My home electricity bill August 2024 was $100.56 for everything. It used to cost me $600 per month for a gas vehicle per month. Plus maintenance. Huge savings.
I see about the same loss with my '24 Tesla Model Y. I do keep cabin overheat protection on all the time when parked at work. There's no shade at all and I don't mind paying a few bucks extra a week to keep my car interior from getting roasted in the Oklahoma sun. It's been brutally hot even in mid Sept, with over 100F yesterday. I charge my vehicle on a 240v 16amp setting, rather than maxing out my evse at 40amps. Recently put in a mini-split AC in my garage, so I am able to charge at 72F instead of trying to charge in a 100F+ garage. I believe that does decrease my charging loss as the car is not having to cool the battery pack while in the climate controlled garage.
Luke, great explanation on your costs. Out in Sunny California, Chevron Premium gasoline is $5.59. My electric is 0.20¢ kwh. I’m going on 10 years of savings over ICE cars. I’m looking forward to your trip, and the granular details. $0.03 is my happy place.
What I read online is that energy loss specifically related to charging is roughly 10% if you use a level 2 charger or 15% if you use a level 1 charger. It's not huge in either case, but if you have level 2 in your home, you can save yourself a few pennies on your home electricity bill by using the level always, even when your energy needs are small enough that plugging into an L1 would be sufficient (but it won't save enough money to recoup the up-front cost of installing the level 2 in the first place).
Good video getting the word out about charging losses. You’ll find that loss is usually a few % less with the 7kW Mobile Connecor than with the 11kW Wall Connector. DC charging at 50-75 kW loses the least. You REALLY should only charge your LFP to 100% once a week for battery meter calibration. Ideally, schedule it to end right before you do a lot of driving. The longer the state of charge is above 90% the worse. If you really want, to prolong the your LFP battery life, stop at 90% or less unless you need more than that. Over 90%degrades the LFP battery less than it would and NMC, because the LFP voltage doesn’t increase as much as charge increases. However, leaving the car charged above 90% for more than a day at time will still degrade it more quickly.
Thanks for the video. I had seen many references to the power loss in 120v vs 240v and the energy loss in charging. It was quite high on 120v and even then on 240v there is still loss. One of the things that has me a little concerned is the amount of electricity my Tesla is using while parked. I never noticed the Bolt(could just be me not being as attentive) continuing to use power. I don't have cabin over heat protection, or sentry mode turned on. I have seen the Tesla wake up for no apparent reason and was charging. The car does not tell me this happened. I just happened to notice it and I now have a EVSE that shows me the consumption. I could see the SOC had dropped a couple of % and appears the car fired up to top it off again. Not sure what the Tesla is doing that it is drawing down the SOC and having to activate and charge. I just happened to be out working in the shop and noticed the car was charging one day and the car hadn't been used. It appears the vampire power drain is higher with the Tesla than with the Bolt it replaced. I am going to have to knuckle down and see if I can log how much power the Tesla is drawing when parked between uses of the car and see what that looks like. I really never logged the wall EVSE data before. I never had an EVSE that told me what it delivered. I recently bought one so I need to get on top of this. Tesla is more efficient on the highway for sure, but appears to not be as efficient in other areas. I think the reason I noticed this is that the car only gets used infrequently due to working from home. If I was using the car frequently I might not have noticed this drain and charge routine. I also noticed the Tesla will draw down 1-2% SOC in the parking lot when I do take the car do our errands and shopping. On those occasions I have heard what sounds like fans running so I am assuming it is cooling the batteries as the ambient temps were high. I am still in the learning phase with how the car behaves and logging the trips and driving efficiency as I am going to be making changes to see how it is affected as I implement changes one thing at a time and try to log the effects. Yes, I am one of those efficiency nerds with a shelf full of mods to put on the car. It is hard to be patient and get enough data samples before making changes. LOL
Those are good electric rates. Here in the northeast, we pay close to $0.35/kWh when you add in all the delivery and membershio fees. But having solar panels on my roof, I no longer have an electric bill, but I would have to double my solar panels (from23 to 46) to cover an EV, but I simply don't have the roof space, which sucks.
@@TeslaDo_dps the TOU National grid rates also keep three buckets - peak, super peak and off peak. So my solar accumulates credits for super peak and peak times which are consumed by use during those times at the higher rate. My Tesla charges at off peak rates not consuming the peak/super peak credits - saving so much more money. Win win win.
@@chrisbuczeksmith8289 Same. And, everything that has a timer, now runs between 11:00 and 7:00 if prudent to do so. I didn't know that my washer, dryer, and dehumidifier have 24hr timers until VTOU. I also charge my EGO batteries and run the Roombas at night now.
factor in your state's TV registration tax that offsets the loss of gas taxes. I have an ev in Ga, and I paid $200 for the EV road tax. Still cost effective over my premium drinking tuned GTI but less so.
Check to see if you do a TOU plan with your utility. Here in expensive upstate NY we have a TOU plan for electric which drives our electric costs down to about 7 cents per kWh. We charge the Tesla between 11:00 pm and 7 am which is the timeframe of the low cost rates. For us that’s about 1/3 the cost of our normal electric rates and it could be 1/3 the cost for you as well - so either half your costs or maybe 1/3 of your calculated electric costs and well worth it.
I just wanted to let you know as a tesla and Bolt owner as well, is that charging at Tesla level 3 chargers are available for the Bolt as well. Just make sure that it's a level 3 and not a level 2.
You are making things way too complicated for the ICE huggers. They know price per gallon and they know miles per gallon, so they can easily figure out how many dollars they spend per mile, which is (Price per gallon) / (Miles per gallon) = cost/mile. If you want to prove anything to them, do the same thing I do. I have a ChargePoint charger at home and TeslaFi/Tessie to figure out my total cost for electricity for any given month. Take that cost and divide it by the number of miles you drove that month. I am approaching my 1 year anniversary with my 2023 Model Y. Thus far, I have spent $1595.94 for all charging on my car. I currently have 41,905 miles on the odometer. All the ICE huggers need to know is that I spend $1595.94 to go 41,905 miles, which equates to $.038 to go 1 mile. Yeah, that's 3.8 cents to go 1 mile. Let's see? Gas costs $3.29 for the cheap stuff where I live. An ICE car would need to get 86.6 miles per gallon to match that. However, the performance of my Model Y LR is equal to a Porsche Macan S, which takes premium fuel only....and that currently costs $4.09. So, the Porsche would need to get 107.6 mpg in order to match 'like for like'. Now, let's talk about my $0 in maintenance to go 42k miles....LOL to the ICE drivers.
I used the rates from my local utility provider for the electric rate. I used fuelly.com for the mpg estimate on the bmw, which is supposed to be real world. I have enough solar at home that I only pay a connection fee and get a refund check every January, even with multiple EVs. I know that’s not going to be the case with most people, so I use the rate that I would pay otherwise for my calculations.
Not really, depends on the car. We just replaced an old Mazda 3 with a Chevy Bolt, and the insurance was about $20 higher a year. The Chevy cost more and is more powerful than the Mazda was. It's certainly prudent to check what your insurance would be with a new car of any sort.
@@guringai lol. Keep telling yourself the lies that originated with crooked politicians and their buddy capitalists. Let's just begin by facing the reality of how bad they are for the environment alone. External combustion, strip mining, hazardous waste, etc. Damn there is so much to say. But hey, I wasn't the one duped
You also have to think about the cost of oil changes and other services that an ice vehicle has.
I have followed your channel for a while now, and your experience with the Bolt convinced us to purchase a used 2021 last December. The savings over our 2023 Maverick eco boost has been substantial.
Good to hear!
You're concerned about charging losses? You lose 70% efficiency via friction and wasted heat, if you drive an ICE.
exactly like my Prius with a special engine cycle gets 40% at best
Yes, but those losses are already factored into your mpg calculations. The charging efficiency might fly under the radar, so we're trying to account for it.
Here in 🇨🇦 I charge at home. 5 cents a kWh charging 11 pm to 7 am . I drive roughly 3000 km per month. My home electricity bill August 2024 was $100.56 for everything. It used to cost me $600 per month for a gas vehicle per month. Plus maintenance. Huge savings.
I see about the same loss with my '24 Tesla Model Y. I do keep cabin overheat protection on all the time when parked at work. There's no shade at all and I don't mind paying a few bucks extra a week to keep my car interior from getting roasted in the Oklahoma sun. It's been brutally hot even in mid Sept, with over 100F yesterday. I charge my vehicle on a 240v 16amp setting, rather than maxing out my evse at 40amps. Recently put in a mini-split AC in my garage, so I am able to charge at 72F instead of trying to charge in a 100F+ garage. I believe that does decrease my charging loss as the car is not having to cool the battery pack while in the climate controlled garage.
Luke, great explanation on your costs. Out in Sunny California, Chevron Premium gasoline is $5.59. My electric is 0.20¢ kwh. I’m going on 10 years of savings over ICE cars. I’m looking forward to your trip, and the granular details. $0.03 is my happy place.
What I read online is that energy loss specifically related to charging is roughly 10% if you use a level 2 charger or 15% if you use a level 1 charger. It's not huge in either case, but if you have level 2 in your home, you can save yourself a few pennies on your home electricity bill by using the level always, even when your energy needs are small enough that plugging into an L1 would be sufficient (but it won't save enough money to recoup the up-front cost of installing the level 2 in the first place).
The biggest advantage to the level 2 is time for us.
Good video getting the word out about charging losses. You’ll find that loss is usually a few % less with the 7kW Mobile Connecor than with the 11kW Wall Connector. DC charging at 50-75 kW loses the least.
You REALLY should only charge your LFP to 100% once a week for battery meter calibration. Ideally, schedule it to end right before you do a lot of driving. The longer the state of charge is above 90% the worse. If you really want, to prolong the your LFP battery life, stop at 90% or less unless you need more than that. Over 90%degrades the LFP battery less than it would and NMC, because the LFP voltage doesn’t increase as much as charge increases. However, leaving the car charged above 90% for more than a day at time will still degrade it more quickly.
Thanks for the video. I had seen many references to the power loss in 120v vs 240v and the energy loss in charging. It was quite high on 120v and even then on 240v there is still loss.
One of the things that has me a little concerned is the amount of electricity my Tesla is using while parked. I never noticed the Bolt(could just be me not being as attentive) continuing to use power. I don't have cabin over heat protection, or sentry mode turned on. I have seen the Tesla wake up for no apparent reason and was charging.
The car does not tell me this happened. I just happened to notice it and I now have a EVSE that shows me the consumption. I could see the SOC had dropped a couple of % and appears the car fired up to top it off again. Not sure what the Tesla is doing that it is drawing down the SOC and having to activate and charge. I just happened to be out working in the shop and noticed the car was charging one day and the car hadn't been used. It appears the vampire power drain is higher with the Tesla than with the Bolt it replaced. I am going to have to knuckle down and see if I can log how much power the Tesla is drawing when parked between uses of the car and see what that looks like. I really never logged the wall EVSE data before. I never had an EVSE that told me what it delivered. I recently bought one so I need to get on top of this.
Tesla is more efficient on the highway for sure, but appears to not be as efficient in other areas. I think the reason I noticed this is that the car only gets used infrequently due to working from home. If I was using the car frequently I might not have noticed this drain and charge routine. I also noticed the Tesla will draw down 1-2% SOC in the parking lot when I do take the car do our errands and shopping. On those occasions I have heard what sounds like fans running so I am assuming it is cooling the batteries as the ambient temps were high.
I am still in the learning phase with how the car behaves and logging the trips and driving efficiency as I am going to be making changes to see how it is affected as I implement changes one thing at a time and try to log the effects. Yes, I am one of those efficiency nerds with a shelf full of mods to put on the car. It is hard to be patient and get enough data samples before making changes. LOL
Another informative video. Thanks, Spinner!
btw, really like those wheel covers on your Model 3! Keep up the good work, enjoy your channel.
Thanks!
Those are good electric rates. Here in the northeast, we pay close to $0.35/kWh when you add in all the delivery and membershio fees. But having solar panels on my roof, I no longer have an electric bill, but I would have to double my solar panels (from23 to 46) to cover an EV, but I simply don't have the roof space, which sucks.
Where are you at? I live in upstate NY and National Grid has a VTOU rate of $.06 at night. My panels can't even make electricity that cheap.
@@TeslaDo_dps the TOU National grid rates also keep three buckets - peak, super peak and off peak. So my solar accumulates credits for super peak and peak times which are consumed by use during those times at the higher rate. My Tesla charges at off peak rates not consuming the peak/super peak credits - saving so much more money. Win win win.
@@chrisbuczeksmith8289 Same. And, everything that has a timer, now runs between 11:00 and 7:00 if prudent to do so.
I didn't know that my washer, dryer, and dehumidifier have 24hr timers until VTOU. I also charge my EGO batteries and run the Roombas at night now.
@@TeslaDo_d Outside of Boston (NationalGrid)
its 0.06 here in ohio anytime of day
I have 21% losses combined everything sentry mode, overheating protection and preconditioning battery every morning.
factor in your state's TV registration tax that offsets the loss of gas taxes.
I have an ev in Ga, and I paid $200 for the EV road tax. Still cost effective over my premium drinking tuned GTI but less so.
Exactly the same. $200 added to registration.
MT charges $130
Check to see if you do a TOU plan with your utility. Here in expensive upstate NY we have a TOU plan for electric which drives our electric costs down to about 7 cents per kWh. We charge the Tesla between 11:00 pm and 7 am which is the timeframe of the low cost rates. For us that’s about 1/3 the cost of our normal electric rates and it could be 1/3 the cost for you as well - so either half your costs or maybe 1/3 of your calculated electric costs and well worth it.
Confirmed. National Grid was $.066/kWh last month. That's all the little fees added together for service AND delivery....for those doubters out there.
@@TeslaDo_dps it’s wicked easy to tell the charger that low cost time and for it to charge at that time.
Trivial losses compared to any gas vehicle. DC charging hat probably has higher losses from heat caused by resistance
I just wanted to let you know as a tesla and Bolt owner as well, is that charging at Tesla level 3 chargers are available for the Bolt as well. Just make sure that it's a level 3 and not a level 2.
You are making things way too complicated for the ICE huggers. They know price per gallon and they know miles per gallon, so they can easily figure out how many dollars they spend per mile, which is (Price per gallon) / (Miles per gallon) = cost/mile.
If you want to prove anything to them, do the same thing I do. I have a ChargePoint charger at home and TeslaFi/Tessie to figure out my total cost for electricity for any given month. Take that cost and divide it by the number of miles you drove that month.
I am approaching my 1 year anniversary with my 2023 Model Y. Thus far, I have spent $1595.94 for all charging on my car. I currently have 41,905 miles on the odometer. All the ICE huggers need to know is that I spend $1595.94 to go 41,905 miles, which equates to $.038 to go 1 mile. Yeah, that's 3.8 cents to go 1 mile.
Let's see? Gas costs $3.29 for the cheap stuff where I live. An ICE car would need to get 86.6 miles per gallon to match that. However, the performance of my Model Y LR is equal to a Porsche Macan S, which takes premium fuel only....and that currently costs $4.09. So, the Porsche would need to get 107.6 mpg in order to match 'like for like'.
Now, let's talk about my $0 in maintenance to go 42k miles....LOL to the ICE drivers.
Cost when charging from solar and battery production at home? Did you get Real world MPG for the BMW not just stated?
I used the rates from my local utility provider for the electric rate. I used fuelly.com for the mpg estimate on the bmw, which is supposed to be real world. I have enough solar at home that I only pay a connection fee and get a refund check every January, even with multiple EVs. I know that’s not going to be the case with most people, so I use the rate that I would pay otherwise for my calculations.
I think I heard that charging loses changed based on 120v vs 240v charging. Are you charging at 240v I assume? Did you happen to test at 120v?
Tested at 240. Didn’t test at 120
Insurance Is higher on EV cars
Not really, depends on the car. We just replaced an old Mazda 3 with a Chevy Bolt, and the insurance was about $20 higher a year. The Chevy cost more and is more powerful than the Mazda was.
It's certainly prudent to check what your insurance would be with a new car of any sort.
EVs lol. The bs scam that people got suckered into
At between 1/3 & 1/2 cheaper than a combustion car, evs are looking great.
So, Wtf are you on about?
@@guringai lol. Keep telling yourself the lies that originated with crooked politicians and their buddy capitalists. Let's just begin by facing the reality of how bad they are for the environment alone. External combustion, strip mining, hazardous waste, etc. Damn there is so much to say. But hey, I wasn't the one duped
@@guringai he probably rolls coal in his jacked up pickup truck. 😂