First Generation Mustang Engine Coolant Trapped Air Burping/Bleeding Procedure
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2021
- This video shows how to bleed or burp the cooling system on a First Generation Mustang engine. This can be applied to many other engines. It is important to burp the cooling system to ensure the engine coolant level behind the cooling system thermostat is in contact with coolant, and not trapped air.
This is done on a cool engine. It is not necessary, or recommended, that this be done on a warm or hot engine. There is no need for the coolant thermostat to be open to perform this burping procedure.
Initially I thought I was doing this to an engine that had a good level of coolant in it. But, as it turns out the cooling system was about 1 quart low on coolant (no bad), which let me show a more complete burping/bleeding routine than I had anticipated I would be able to do.
One may note in the video that I mention the engine is a 351 Windsor (not a Cleveland) v-8. Well, in 1973 Mustang 351s were all Cleveland engines, not Windsors - UNLESS the engine is a transplanted unit. Such is the case with our 1973 Mach 1. The prior owner replaced the 302 with a street/strip built 351W, which runs plenty strong - and fit in place of the 302 engine perfectly. If you have a 71-73 Mustang your thermostat housing is going to be oriented differently than ours, but the technique is the same, except the heater hose you will be removing to burp the system is not connected to your intake manifold. If you have a 302, 289, 260, or 351W your engine will look pretty much like ours (slight differences in the timing case cover and some other minor matters, but largely the same). - Фільми й анімація
That is THE BEST looking car ever made. I'm not even a big Ford fan, but those Mach 1 fastbacks are the most beautiful cars ever made.
It took me many decades to give the 71-73 Mustangs a chance to be admired, as I always felt they were bloated looking in the rear quarter panel area. Stodgy looking. Then I began to give them a chance to be appreciated as part of the continual styling changes for all First Generation Mustangs (and Shelbys) from 65 - 73. And we happened to luck into this Mach 1. Once I began to work on the Mach 1 I realized how clos it was in its core design to the 69-70 Mustangs, which I love more than all other year Mustang/Shelby. I am now a raving fan of the 71-73 body style Mustang, and even have two of them - this Mach 1 and a Mustang Convertible that is in pristine, preserved condition (just over 20,000 original miles on it). I still like the 69 & 70 body styles more than 71-73, but the 71-73 body style has become amongst my more favored Mustangs.
This particular Mach 1 is a little unusual as it has a street/strip built 351W (not C) engine in it, replacing its original 302 2v engine. And the original 3 speed automatic transmission has been replaced with a 4 speed Automatic OverDrive (AOD) transmission. Further, the prior owner replaced the original 2.79:1 rear axle ratio gear set with a 3.5:1 Tractionlok set of rear axle gears - which gives it some really nice low speed performance potential. Between that relatively low rear axle ratio, and the OverDrive transmission we have the best of all worlds re: great low end performance, and really good upper end performance as well. It is a blast to drive, and it cruises nicely at highway speeds. At 60 MPH in 4th gear in the AOD, the engine is running at just under a mere 1,900 RPM! And the built engine has the torque and horsepower to overcome the impact of the air resistance at higher speeds, so we make good use of the OverDrive gearing of the transmission. Very cool...
Worked perfectly! Wish I tried it sooner!
Awesome! I am glad it worked for you (also). It’s one of those things that looks obvious in hindsight. And once learned you will use that technique time and again. Plus now you can amaze your friends who work on (vintage) cars. Heh heh…. What is really cool is it is so basic the it will work with newer vehicles also. Timeless.
@@gilberthale7777 I could not find the part 2 of your post.
@@Dave-ru2qh
You caught me. I was going to show an alternative burping method for enginess that have a different design for heater core hoses. But the vehicle I intended to use for the video was sold by its owner, unbeknownst to me. I will alter the topic header of this post to eliminate any potential confusion. The approach is the same, but where I was going to take off the heater core coolant return hose was a little different.
I'm a Porsche air cooled guy, my wife's got a 66 Mustang, so this knowledge is gold for me. Thank you.
I am glad you found the video and information helpful. An aside, I like and respect Porches as well as First Generation Mustangs. They are totally different animals, with a design and engineering perspective that has some overlap. But, Porsche engineering is far less tolerant of "good enough" attitudes.
Thank you! This was a huge help! All the info i could find about bleeding air was for more modern vehicles and wasn't overly aplicable to my old F100. The ford shop manual actually instructs to do exactly what you did but it didn't provide enough detail for someone who hadn't done it before to do it properly. Really saved me (and my pickup) on this one.
yeah, this is definitely Old School stuff, like back in the 60s, 70s, and even 80s when I was working on cars as a serious hobby and later for a living. I am glad you found the information useful, as that is why Lynda and I produce and share these videos. And, it helps me feel like I am still relevant despite being fully retired. heh heh...
Great video, thanks for not only the how to, but the explanation of why beforehand. Replaced the radiator on my 69 Mach 1 and this will come in handy for the refill this week!
Wow! I am glad you found the video helpful. Lynda and I like doing these How To videos on these old school vehicles. They are definitely different when compared to the newer vehicles. I enjoy working on both new and older vehicles, but when it comes to working on our vintage pony cars I have an absolute blast. Being able to spin a useful video out of those tinkering and repair sessions makes an already really fun hobby all the more enjoyable. And, making these videos helps me feel I am still relevant.
Thank you very much sir. I was hesitant to let it run with air in the system hoping it would work it’s way through!
I am sincerely happy you found this info useful. I wonder how many folks ended up with head gasket or worse issues due to running their engine without fully purging air from the engine coolant passages. It was, frankly, because I realized one day when I purged my engine after replacing the water pump, that I had a sudden epiphany re: wondering if I could use UA-cam to try to help others prevent engine damage due to running with trapped air. I had done other UA-cam videos by then, but I told Lynda we needed to do one on this subject right away. I will never know how many folks I helped prevent overheating problems because of this video, but I love hearing from fellow enthusiasts when they tell me it was useful. So, thank you for letting me know it was useful information for you.
Excellent video and excellent explanation! Thank you sir.
Thank you.
God Bless You Brother.. You have helped.
I am sincerely glad I was able to help you out. That is why Lynda and I do these videos showing different diagnostic and repair techniques on the First Generation Mustangs and Shelbys. Of course, the information is applicable to pretty much any automobile, to include the newer ones.
Thank you! - And nice car!
You are very welcome, I am glad you found this video useful and informative. Thank you for the comment about the car itself, also. That is very considerate of you.
Thank you, very useful
it is always so rewarding I am glad you found the video useful... We enjoy making these little How To videos, immensely.
Very clever!
Another instance where "Old School" does not mean outdated. heh heh...
Hopefully this works, and probably the best video explaining this. Thanks 🙏
Thank you. There are alternative hose connections for different makes and models. The one in the video is a 1973 Mustang Convertible with a 302 2v engine. But, no matter the make and model, all liquid cooled engines for automobiles will be very similar.
Another very informative video by you both, gotta love old school knowledge 😉 even though I have a cleveland, you just keep teaching me things that make a whole lot of sense, by the way Gilbert would you by any chance have an wiring diagram for a 73 Q code? I also noticed, did you move the radiator mounts to fit the new radiator?
Greetings! And thank you for your kind comments. To your first question, yes, I have wiring diagrams. Both licensed schematics acquired through Forel Publishing (very inexpensive PDF file), which has vacuum schematics, connector, splice, ground, and other useful information. And I also have a no fee scanned set of schematics which does not have the vacuum schematics, connector, splice, ground, and other related additional information.
I am happy to share the no fee information, and snippets of the copyrighted, fee based schematics to some reasonable degree. If you like the thought of having some really useful PDF files that provides some great schematics, and emission control systems and related vacuum routing from the 6 volume shop manual, you can acquire and download those files, and more, from Forel Publishing at the following link:
www.forelpublishing.com/clickbank/index.html
It is hard to go wrong with the documentation from Forel, especially beginning with 1973, and even some 1972, Mustang manuals. For years prior to that the wiring schematics from Ford were quite terse, lacking really useful wiring content, having no vacuum line routing information (although Mustang Barn put together some good vacuum system info for 67-71 Mustangs, for free, which I compiled into one file per year). In 1972 the documentation got pretty good, and by 1973 it was quite complete and very nicely assembled.
If you would like me to send some of the files and file snippets I have please email me at:
gilhale@gmail.com.
If you would like some snippets of the more detailed wiring schematics let me know which circuit(s)/system(s) you need help with.
As for the radiator supports being used, you are very observant. I used the original radiator upper support brackets, and lower retaining brackets. They fit the new aluminum radiator "well enough" to keep things in place. I could have fabricated some retaining brackets that would have fit "better," but frankly the ones in use now work plenty well so I not bother spending the time and effort in fabricating a different set of retaining brackets. There may even be some 3rd party brackets you could use, but anything more I say would be beating a dying horse. I am not usually a, "good enough is good enough," kind of guy. But, in this case that is a rather fitting phrase (no pun intended).
Fantastic information and video Gilbert! I have pulled out the temp sender before to purge air while filling up the radiator or if the thermostat did not have a "jiggle valve" have drilled a 1/8" hole and clocked the thermostat with the hole straight up at 12:00 since air likes to rise. It seems to work great. But I like your method and will try that next time. By the way, what thermostat you running? 180 or 195?
Thanks again!
Greetings,Stuart!
I have pondered, in the deep, dark past, drilling a 1/8" air bleed hole in the thermostat. But, in the end decises to just burp the engine as shown in the video Lynda and I produced and posted. Do much less hassle, or so it seems. As for the tenp thermostat, I run the 192-195 degree units, as specified by the manufacturer. They made some changes to the engine's metallurgy and several components that are allegedly best run at 192-195. I know there are some folks who run 180 degrees, and it seems to work just fine. But, running at 160 degrees allegedly causes gunk to build up in the cranksase, And IT leads to excessive wear over time. I prefer to run on the edge of caution, thus the 192-195 ddegree thermostats in our engine,
Thank You again Gilbert! And please Thank Lynda too as she is doing a great job! I will be looking for more of your helpful videos. I have a Ford 302 with 351 heads in an 56 F-100. I found the engine on eBay, it was a former marine engine someone overhauled +040 and put a street cam in it. Its been a great engine but afrer 10 years of 30K miles of use, it is now leaking coolant around the timing chain cover so as soon as the weather gets a little warmer I will be tearing into it. Haven't done it before so it's going to be an adventure!
I will be checking back into your channel and Subscribing for more good stuff from you and Lynda. Til next time sir! Stu
Greg Avitia posted a question, and in my attempt to respond I deleted his comment. I hope finds this reply.
Greg's Question:
I know this is 10 months old, but it was a great video. I am running a SBC in my jeep and just installed new heads. We filled up the block through the thermostat opening on the manifold. When I started the engine it took a long time to register a water temp. Then pushed antifreeze out the overflow tank on the test run. The temp went to 225 degrees at a stop and then settled at 190 (185 degree thermostat). I wonder if I had some air pockets that may have created the problem? Any ideas?
My reply:
If the temp finally settled down at 190 with a 185 degree thermostat and you had no boil over it wound to me like you had some air trapped behind the thermostat, and when the thermostat opened it burped the rest out on its own. No everybody is that lucky. As long as the situation does not repeat I am certain you will be fine, assuming you are not overheating.
If the problem does persist or repeat upon warm I would try to burp the engine yet again (I am betting that will not be needed, but just in case...). If that does not resolve the problem I would suggest doing a Blok Test to make certain combustion gas is not getting into the cooling system. that is a stretch to say the least, but it if one base that ought to be covered. I have a video showing how to do a Block Test in case you are not familiar with it. Easy to do, and most parts stores lend or rent them out - sometimes for no fee. Other times for a very low fee.
ua-cam.com/video/OhNQVEp7Kxw/v-deo.html
Please let me know how this turns out...
Will this method work if I've replaced the intake manifold gasket and drained the system of coolant and there is no coolant behind the thermostat? Much thanks and great video
Hi! In some engine designs there may not be a heater hose that is located in the same place as the one I removed temporarily to bleed out air trapped inside the engine coolant passages. But, there will be "somewhere" from whence you can pull off a radiator hose located " behind the thermostat where air is trapped. By removing that hose long enough to let the trapped air in the coolant passageways will get you the same result as I have shown in this video. If you have a Thermal Vacuum Switch (TVS) located somewhere on your engine, that is another viable part you can remove temporarily to purge the trapped air also. I recommend using a teflon based sealer or tape on the threads of the TVS before you reinstall it back into its proper location. If you have further questions or need more clarification please feel free to add another comment, or email me at gilhale@gmail.com.
Very informative. Thank you.
I have a question. I have 65 K code Mustang. I replaced the radiator. When I refilled the new radiator with coolant, the system accepted far less than 14.5 quarts that should be required. Any idea what is going on here? Your thoughts will be appreciated.
It the coolant was lower than the temperature rating of the thermostat, it is possible the thermostat seal was so tight hat when you drained the coolant from the radiator, the thermostat being closed caused a vacuum inside the heads and engine coolant jackets which prevented the coolant from fully draining from the heads and engine block. By opening up the heater hose inlet furthest back from the water pump, in the same location as the heater hose inlet shown in this video (351W, not C) that vacuum would be relieved and the engine cooling jackets should then full drain.
I have seen comment from others saying the factory specs for 14.5 - 16 quarts of coolant capacity is incorrect. Those same folks seem to feel 8-9 quarts is the actual coolant capacity. For a v-8 that seems pretty low. I lean more toward the 14.5 - 16 quart capacity being correct, and the vacuum behind the thermostat during coolant draining is the cause of the problem with "low coolant" capacity based upon what is drained out.
@@gilberthale7777 Not sure what is going on here. Before I installed the new radiator I flushed the system with the thermostat removed and then installed a new thermostat.
I did notice that when I flushed the system after draining there was more coolant expelled before the water ran clear. So the engine seems to retain some coolant even after the system is drained. If that's the case, the 8-9 quart max may be right.
Thank you for the help.
How about putting an aspirin under the thermostat valve to pass water .. maybe 2 to be symmetric ?? Dissolve in short order.
I am certain that might work, but it may introduce a problem. For me that is a novel approach, one I would not have thought to do, for a few reasons. My concern would be the lateral stress being put on the assembly that could cause the thermostat to stick open even after the aspirin dissolved, although using two ought to resolve that potential problem. Despite it being a potentially viable approach, the way I show is less intrusive, and involves no chemicals (Acetylsalicylic Acid), heh heh...
The more I think about your approach (JohnWest4), the more I like it for some reason. Dissolving temporary compounds could be useful in several areas with auto repair, or so my gut tells me. That is definitely thinking outside the conventional box...
@@gilberthale7777 maybe Rock salt too? Just get the air out... A 1/16" hole in thermostat??
@@JohnWest4 1/16" hole in thERMOSTAT is not enough to cause a large amount of internal leakage, but if there is air behind it there is plenty to let the water jackets in the engine and heads to fill with coolant as air escapes through that small hole. It is still slow to bleed the air off. I feel my approach is the best and fastest way of burping trapped air.
Good video. But someone get that man some oxygen!!!!
My apologies for my gravely voice. I have a paralyzed vocal cord as a result of a side effect from life saving brain surgery 9 years ago. I had a deadly, cancerous brain tumor that had to be cut out,. After 6 surgeries the tumor was totally gone, and I have had 9 incredible years lived I otherwise would have missed. But, one of the nerve groups in my Vagus nerve was killed off due to excessive Spinal Fluid pressure that occurred before I received corrective surgery for that condition, I am aware of how my voice changed as a result of the one vocal cord being paralyzed, but I try to not be self-conscious of that condition to the point where I want stop interacting with the world. I feel I still have much to share and contribute, to include in the word of auto repair. So, I keep on plugging away by producing these little How To videos in an effort to show how folks can perform their own repairs, especially on vintage, First Generation Mustangs, Cougars, and Shelbys. And I do so despite my voice being compromised, as the importance of the information I want to share is deemed more important than my ego.
I am sincerely glad you liked the video.
@@gilberthale7777 No need to apologize for that! Thank you so much for sharing this knowledge with us, we are glad you're still here! I will certainly be checking out more videos from you
@@felixesco9196 i am also happy i survived that ordeal. Every year I have an mri done to make certain nothing new is cooking in my head. So far they have all come back clean.
I am glad you found our video useful. Now that car season has begun once again Lynda and I will be producing a few more videos. We just did one on how to install a Pertronix electronic ignition system in a first generation Mustang while tapping into a switched 12 volt source for the new Ignitor and an aftermarket 12 volt “Flamethrower” ignition coil. We really enjoy making those videos. A lot.
Sadly Ford did away with that port on the top of the thermostat housing. Been having issues getting air out of my system for weeks now but I have to keep driving it since it's the only running car I got left. I got an 88 302 Windsor.
You should still be able to remove the heater hose as shown in the video. One of the heater hoses attaches near the water pump. The other is located a little further back from the water pump port for the one heater hose, not far behind the thermostat cover you should find the heater hose return line into the engine.
@@gilberthale7777 I'll take a look. Just spent 20 minutes leaving it idle at temperature with a sealed funnel in place of the radiator cap half filled with coolant. It would cycle with and without bubbles I'm assuming as the new thermostat I put in would open and close.
@@sijonda I dug up some diagrams I think you will find useful to locate the Heater Hose Return Fitting in the intake manifold of your 302W engine If you need further clarification please let me know. The PDF file is on my Google Drive at this link:
drive.google.com/file/d/1scLTMXJm5OeeQ2vq0jG2K7vV5hB4uy8E/view?usp=drive_link
@@gilberthale7777 I appreciate the help. Thank you.
video starts at 7:49 y’all
Yeah, I tend to like to go over the why a video is being produced, as well as then getting into how to do a routine. It did take me just over 7 minutes to cover the reason for the need to bleed or burp a cooling system. Nature of the beast... I hope the remaining content makes it worth the first 7 minutes of background.
@@gilberthale7777 I think what this disrespectful beta male meant to say was "Thanks for taking the time to make a thorough and educational video for all of us.". Nice Mach 1 btw.
@@brucemastiff7390could well be the case. I am glad you found the information useful.