"There's no such thing as long term booking anymore. It's week-to-week." What an incredibly stupid thing to say. I'm sorry - no, wait, I'm not sorry - that is just monumentally freaking stupid. Long-term booking is one of the most important ingredients to satisfying wrestling. No wonder I went from loving AEW to being completely indifferent about it.
The idea that longterm booking doesn't exist is beyond idiotic considering Cody had a storyline that was like 2 years long? Sami had a long one as well. Roman had his tribal chief stuff take years and it's technically still going. Rhea/Dom has been going for a hell of a long time now too. And those are all the most interesting things.
@@user-vq8fq1ty7c WWE does have long term storytelling, but it’s usually lazy storytelling. A lot of the same thing over and over again until a big show. Cody’s 2 year story to the WWE championship did not even involve the bloodline until 3 months before wrestlemaina. All the story was before then was that Cody saying he wants the title that was taken from his father. Everyone in WWE wants to be the world champion. If it takes Austin theory 10 years to win his first world title, WWE would promote it as a 10 year story in the making. That wouldn’t be a 10 year story, that’s just the point and time when Austin theory got to that level. Back to Cody, the first year of him back in WWE consisted of him wrestling Seth 3 times, getting injured, then winning the royal rumble. That sounds like a lot of good detailed story telling there.
Agreed. Obviously there's certain aspects that are beyond anyone's control, and as a booker you have to adapt to those obstacles as they come, but to say "You can't book long-term" reeks of a poor craftsman blaming his tools.
Cody leaving. Punk drama. Roster bloating causes AEW to lose its identity as pushing young, fresh talent. Vince out, HHH in. Tony’s booking: Minimal thought and planning turned into zero. “Family business” mentality: Tony has literally three AEW titles plus Fulham and Jags responsibilities. Hire staff and delegate like a real business. We all should love Tony for his passion and starting AEW. It’s unfortunate the fans are going to be disappointed since he doesn’t appear to want to adjust like any good CEO would.
Death by a thousand cuts. You can give WWE, Punk and others credit, but AEW had many, many flaws from the start that were never addressed and just became worse.
@@Mortallica03 those rumours that they didn’t start? And that didn’t happen? Cabana never got fired, he moved to ROH I understand y’all wanna scapegoat Dave and Bryan but they didn’t break the punk-cabana rumours, if memory serves I think it was SRS
For me personally, it started with Punk's media scrum as that was a look behind the curtain that did huge damage to the image that I had of the company and of many of the characters involved. I imagine that I was by far not the only one who felt that way.
Punk debut was the biggest AEW moment by far. Punk leaving was the biggest blow. Also please remember that during the infamous Punk muffin rant, TK sat right next to him absolutely clueless. Didn't speak up, didn't try to pivot or change the subject, just sat there making goofy faces. Sitting there not stopping it was akin to supporting it in the eyes of the elite and I think that's why TK is going so overboard trying to appease their terrible creative now.
Yeah, and its not only the ROH titles, it's also the mexican and japanese titles. TBS and TNT titles, I hate so much. As if WWE would make a USA Network Championship, a FOX Championship and in a cpuple months, the Netflix Championship
@@LuigiTheItalian Practically stealing the NJPW and CMLL belts to build their own wrestlers. I hated when TNA did that shit, and I'm not any fonder of it now.
@@stilnoxVisions the only reason AEW was as successful as it was, was because WWE was so bad. Now that WWE is better they have gone back. That's my theory anyway.
*ding!* *ding!* *ding!* *ding!* You got this exactly right! I think Cody provided a ton of counterbalance to the Bucks and Omega's dumb, selfish booking and/or Tony being a giant mark without a clue on how to run a wrestling company. With him out of the way, the inmates were able to run the asylum. By June 2022, I was rapidly fed up with AEW's product and it only got worse from there.
I think Cody and Tony had very different views of pro wrestling. Cody believes in storytelling and Tony is an in ring guy. When Tony decided to take over creative, I'm sure he started stepping on his toes. Not to mention the way Cody was presented. He was pushed into a feud with every johnny come lately that showed up in AEW. And on top of that the fans always wanted him to do the job for them! lol They would get furious when Cody would get a win.
I am so glad that Bryan realizes what viewership really is. I have never seen ESPN brag about the 18-49 demo, when they release viewership numbers on sporting events.
18-49 was never even a thing Dave or Bryan talked about until AEW came around. They were fishing for any metric of data to hold up and point to and say AEW is competing with WWE. When the reality is AEW never came close to Smack down or RAW.
No one wants to hear this but : - 9/4/2022 Punk injured - 6/17/2023 Punk's return in-ring -1/4/2023 Omega has one of the greatest matches of all time at WK17 - 6/25/2023 Omega has another INCREDIBLE match at Forbidden Door. these guys do not belong in the ring together, you can cry about how much it would have DrAwN, I don't care guy doesn't belong anywhere near Omega.
Obviously not Punks fault, as he's in a huge deal program over at the Fed with someone who's not his biggest fan. But they're pros. The kids obviously were the issue. Not Kenny though, as he's explained.
@@jims.6393 Aew fans really hate on cody Rhodes he was the MVP of the company he was who carried this organization behind his back and what did the EVPs Tony khan do they kick him out.
@@jims.6393 Tony khan failed to replicate cody Rhodes vision of what Aew is about they have lost their identity due to Tony conman fetish on ex wwe wrestlers.
@@TheSteveTellDepends on what you interpret as "the decline." After Cody left, a decline was certainly inevitable, however, this decline was intercepted by Punk joining the company. You could argue that the heavy decline after Punk left was a continuation of the post-Cody decline.
AEW is the agenda of Dave Meltzer put into practice. New we have the results, and final judgement is: The wrestling business killed itself to please a 60 year-old puroresu mark.
The overrun argument is so funny because there are all these well-thought out arguments but I bet the truth is just that they have no idea how to format an actual TV show so they just go longer than they should.
When Cody left. Not preventing Brawl Out from happening. Siding with the Elite over Punk. Firing Punk. Letting Chris Jericho run wild all over Dynamite. Realistically we could keep going 🤷🏾♂️
Tony Khan and the executives in charge of AEW made the mistake of not scaling infrastructure and their processes according to the growth in size of the company. When they started, they had a roster of 64 plus whatever office and production staff for two hours weekly plus PPVs. In a year, they doubled the roster’s size but didn’t update their infrastructure to match their growth with an additional hour of TV weekly and Tony Khan taking on almost all the booking responsibilities. This is when we started to see smaller wrestlers showing discontent from lack of work. This was an unsustainable formula as they continued to add more talent but didn’t improve the merchandise, the travel, etc., and Khan was taking on so much stress. The booking started to weaken and then they added ROH which has not really helped company in any meaningful way. A lot of this was masked by the excitement around a new company and Punk arriving only helped that at the beginning. Cody was the first major crack, then Punk more or less put his fingers into the crack and pulled so there was now an undeniable massive issue (whether he was right or wrong is irrelevant). Tony’s mind has since seemed to be focused on the business side now that he’d neglected which has resulted in the worsening booking. He’s going to eventually need to pick one route and find someone to run the other side.
This is a very intelligent post. We should love Tony. However, AEW is his vanity project and not driven by profit motive. He enjoys making all the major decisions. However, it’s devastating for the health of the business and the product.
Agree. I wasn't a huge Punk fan until he came to AEW and I saw why everyone loves this guy. Tony has let the inmates run the asylum. And until he fixes that, AEW will not succeed
The decline started when WWE did the mass releases and AEW began snatching them up. AEW used to be a breath of fresh air but then all the NXT wrestlers they defeated started appearing on the show
@@joshbouman1654 Adam Cole is overrated and is constantly injured and is nothing but a background player now compared to how he was presented in NXT. Same goes for all of his little friends that left NXT to go with him to AEW at that time.
The explosion that didn't happen in the Barb Wire match. It didn't go downhill exactly from that point. It's more it raised an eyebrow about how amateurish this place might be. No matter what anyone thinks about WWE, they are too professional to let something as embarrassing as that happen nowadays.
Asinine. As if there are a whole bunch of fans saying: ya know, I had to stop watching aew because wwe is so good right now…. 😂😂😂😂. In reality if aew were good, wwe getting hot would actually help them.
That doesn’t matter. Both nitro and RAW were running on full cylinders back in the 90s and there was millions upon millions of fans watching both programs . You would watch raw then flip the channel to nitro , back and forth it was nuts and they were both on at the same time same day. If AEW was top notch programming, people would watch
Blaming the wwe is so comical. The fact that both nitro and raw were doing monster numbers for years on end shows that if you have a good product, then people will watch both. Dynamite does not have a good show, and so people stopped watching. Raw and nitro were on at the same time on the same day. WWE having great success is not an excuse. Period.
when WWE started getting hot that's when AEW'S decline started also CM punk getting fired and returning to WWE at Survivor Series last year and also when vince mcmahon got forced out of WWE and triple H took full control of creative there's so many reasons how AEW'S decline started and it's not getting better anytime soon tony khan and his booking is the problem.
Asinine. As if there are a whole bunch of fans saying: ya know, I had to stop watching aew because wwe is so good right now…. 😂😂😂😂. In reality if aew were good, wwe getting hot would actually help them.
@datacipher I mean it's the truth lol WWE is breaking records while AEW isn't the only records they're breaking is record low viewership for rampage and collison dynamite on most weeks are mostly hit and miss.
I thought the decline started as soon as the build to the first Forbidden Door. All the momentum stopped while Punk was hurt, MJF was out, and a bunch of short-term storylines involving outsiders started.
Also, I know some people love him and all the more power to him, but something in AEW died for me the moment Will Ospreay showed up on their tv with Aussie Open. I just thought of him and Jay White, and Kota Ibushi as being the leftover NJPW guys I never wanted to see in AEW -- the guys responsible for tanking business when Omega left and Tanahashi and Okada started to break down. Now we're living in "the Ospreay Era" where everything is built around dream matches and crazy spots but nothing hits on an emotional level. Compare the MJF vs Punk feud to his feud with Ospreay, for instance. If TK ever signs actual trash like Gabe Kidd or Clark Connors I'll know it's time for me to stop watching for good.
There was a noticeable drop right after Revolution. Dynamite had been steadily losing viewers but there was a 100k drop overnight there. Not sure if Sting's retirement meant that much to a certain demographic, or if fans got sucked into WrestleMania season and they only have time for one show... But March seems to be when AEW went from regularly in the 800s with a shot at a milly, to regularly in the 600s with a shot at 800.
When people finally realised it's All Friends phony Wrestling where these Indy darlings are NOT even trying to make money but rather waste and spend a billionaire's son's bank account until his daddy keeps giving him money to waste.
For me it all started with the build up to the first Forbidden Door, followed by that MJF promo where he called Tony Khan a mark, and then ROH being involved. May have timeline wrong there but that's when I remember starting to lose interest
Now most of AEW storyline are dropped.. they turn face and heel with no build-up. After turning, they explain at Collision or Rampage why they change their mind
Fans like backstage stuff but alot of AEWs drama seemed high schoolish and self-induced. I think Tony found out quick its hard ro deal with all those different personalities.
Tony ran out of steam creatively after the conclusion of the Hangman arc. Punk vs MJF was so good it propped up the company for a few more months but creatively the dude lost it and never got it back.
I agree with Bryan's 2nd point. The week to week booking became absolute nonsense. Cody's long term feuds were the few that made sense. Now it's just endless "bangers" for bangers' sake.
The "fingerpoke" was when they aired the Brawl Out footage on TV, but some forget that TK did that in a desperation attempt to pop ratings during a skid at the time. Which it did... for one night. They haven't reached that number since. The decline started a few months before that. MJF was a star but not a brand-carrying level star at champion and TK's behavior in interviews and on Twitter turned him off to a lot of fans online.
It wasn’t one or even three things. AEW got me watching wrestling again after tapping out around 2003. It wasn’t perfect when it started, but it had potential. I think all of AEW’s many problems can fall into two baskets: The nonsensical booking and the inmates running the asylum.
There is a quarter by quarter chart going around on the internet and it shows AEW decline started right after Cody left. It started to fall after Cody then after Punk left it plummeted off a cliff. Tony chose to back the wrong wrestlers. Also I hate the excuse that WWE being good hurt AEW they don't even air on the same night.
@@TheBaddermanCody, the guy who got beat bloody with a belt by the Rock who told Cody on live TV that it's what happens "when you fuck with the Final Boss"? Being an entertaining main event pro wrestler = "PG Corporate" (to people who huff cleaning products)
@@TheBadderman I just consider them to be pro wrestlers that want to go out there and make a name for themselves but also help others that use to be in their shoes. Everyone in AEW seems to be out for themselves. They are out to fleece a money mark for everything he's got and give nothing in return. but sure keep your buzz word insults like "PG" and "Corporate"
Cody leaving started it, Punk being fired cemented it. I understand they had to fire Punk, but other than the nichest of a niche audience, not a single soul gives a flying fuck about Luke Perry’s kid. Only time he gets a reaction is when they make reference to Punk.
Punk about to headline a WWE pay per view. Punk has exemplified the " when life hands you lemons, make lemonade" concept. Whereas, everyone else from Brawl Out has declined.
I absolutely maintain that ROH and 2022 in general was what started the decline. In that year alone we had: -CM Punk coming in and killing Hangman Page's momentum as a main eventer when he could have very easily carried the company on his back for 1-2 years until losing to MJF. -The interim title mess between Jon Moxley and CM Punk, then Thunder Rosa and Toni Storm. -Cody & Brandi Rhodes leaving, and as a result a lot of harmony and positive morale going away. -the ROH Buyout, which hamstrung Tony Khan's booking because now he had to essentially run 2 companies now, and all the talent that came with that (even though The Kingdom and The Briscoes were doing just fine in TNA, and Tony could have just not hired them) -Wardlow getting squandered (who to blame for that is up to your own judgement) -Guys like Scorpio Sky and Miro who were on an upward trajectory being seemingly erased overnight with no explanation. -Adam Cole's injury at Forbidden Door I. -Brawl Out resulting in a bunch of storylines being dropped without explanation or conclusion. -Chris Jericho getting MASSIVELY overexposed in a ridiculous and nonsensical way. -Guys like Andrade being relegated to being background characters.
-Guys like Scorpio Sky and Miro who were on an upward trajectory being seemingly erased overnight with no -Adam Cole's injury at Forbidden Door I. All 3 got injured and thats not fault of TK or AEW that was just unfortunate and bad luck
@@Mortallica03 I never blamed TK for those thing happening. I understand those were things out of his control, the point was that they were apart of a larger bad year for the company.
If everyone was honest. The decline happened when Vince left the first time. WWE fans who were starting to get tired of what WWE was doing, were giving aew a chance. Once Vince left, those fans went back to WWE. You did not hear so many complaints about ex wwe guys going to aew until Vince left
The decline started. When TK kept collecting ex WWE wrestlers like Matt Cardona collects actions figures. AEW has STOPPED being the alternative to WWE. Instead, it has become WWE 2.0.
When tony made an appearance with busted open radio it's a sign the meltzer Tony relationship is in a bad state currently... Next day this video is titled this.. Tony doesn't think he needs these guys anymore and he's just skipped ahead to bust it open radio
AEW had glaring weaknesses from the beginning-- all the shit Cornette pointed out from the rip. Over time as the excitement and newness has worn off, it's simply sunk under the weight of itself.
If you ask me its when I left. And I have a feeling a lot of people left around the same time. Which was around the time Cody left. It really upsets me when people think some of us fans left because we didn’t “get it”. I bought Jericho’s bubbly champagne for thanksgiving and had 3 cousins invested in the drinks so MUCH that I made them fans of AEW. The issue with AEW is that Tony Khan clearly has no structure in his company. He doesn’t listen to anybody that he pays for. People get injured constantly. And what I don’t understand is how are the same wrestlers in the same position in 6-months to a year? Some of us fans left because after 2 years we realized this is just a rich mans vanity project fueled by a journalist who hates proper grammar.
Very interesting to hear about Tony said he wad done with long term booking. I've noticed it a lot recently, especially when Roddy beat Orange for the international title then immediately dropped it to Will. I know Will is consistently one of, if not, the biggest reactions on the shows but that felt so strange. Then this nonsense with Moxley demanding Darby's title shot (already weird and out of character) because Bryan can't compete. But then Nigel challenging Bryan for that night minutes later. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Bryan and Nigel are finally going to wrestle but they could have done this better. It's really interesting that even though numbers keep going down it seems like they keep ranking high for their time slot.
Tony Khan needs to realize, whether he likes it or not, AEW is wrestling but it is also a television show. And you do yourself no favors trying to pretend otherwise.
AEW still hasn't built stars. Swerve didn't do anything to boost business. So many guys are in the same position from when they debuted, and worse people like Darby have been in the same spot for 5 years. Remember when Sammy Guevara was supposed to be a star?
For me it was the exploding barbed wire death match that was the true start. It was such a joke and so minor league. There were BIGGER things, for sure. But that’s where the needle first started pointing down. Multiple underwhelming promises that were massively oversold and seeing hot starts get thrown in the deep freezer. Punk & Cody leaving, etc.
There were ailments from the beginning, but the biggest thing that stung AEW for me is the perception problem. For a long while, it was the nice place, the good place, the one that treated it's staff right and where people were happy to come to work. But with the issues in the way that the company was ran at times, it's clear this perception would never last and once it wars off..... WWE also helped them out in this. Under Vince, we now know it was a different place than so many people will attest to it being now, and in 2019 and during the pandemic, there were mass releases at a time when people were already low, seemingly to try to secure a sale to line the pockets of the people in charge. It was PR suicide, and it made AEW look so much better by comparison. I'm adamant that the biggest AEW ever was, was signing Adam Cole and Bryan Danielson and having them debut the same night. Once again, it's the perception. You take a guy that everyone loves in Danielson, and one that basically ran NXT for like 2 years+ and still had his whole career ahead of him, and you put the middle finger up to the establishment. AEW had all the momentum. Turn the clock forward, the Punk stuff really fractured the company. It may just be a case of similar timeline but the decline for me is definitely within this like 9 month window, probably closer to the Brawl Out.
When WWE kicked Vince & Co. to the curb for good while AEW started to fumble, WWE gained momentum in their favor with big crowds, massive profits, etc.(due to WWE has the Global Name-Brand Recognition to their advantage), AEW on the other hand is struggling to fill seats (outside of their loyal fans that are niche fanatics of pro wrestling) and it’s honestly frustrating to see. At this point, AEW is dealing with a “First They Ignore You, Then They Laugh At You, Then They Fight You, and Then. . . . . You Win (Hopefully)” situation.
I think it's pretty obvious at this point that CM Punk was the worst thing to happen to AEW. He got a brief bump for the company, but that didn't translate to fans who actually stuck around. His performances were lackluster and he constantly got injured. He created a toxic environment backstage and brawled with other wrestlers repeatedly. He publicly buried the company, gave more ammunition to the already relentless army of trolls who have f*ck-all better to do with their time than hate another wrestling company for existing, and demoralized everyone inside AEW and out... the performers, the executives, the fans, and the media all just deflated any excitement or faith in the product after Phil's bullsh*ttery. Yes we can point at other things that also coalesced around that time - Cody getting booed out of the company, purchase of ROH, shift in writing, the shuffle that everyone seems lost in, Kenny's illness - but I think Phil kinda' overshadows all of it (and probably caused a bunch of it). And the hardest part of all of this is that it's difficult to make any kind of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism of AEW because the well has been so poisoned by the aforementioned sh*thead trolls who relentlessly attack AEW and its wrestlers just for existing. I was a fan of AEW before AEW and I certainly have my list of things they could have done better, but you can't even talk about it when f*cking online neckbeards are constantly polluting any discussion about AEW.
I remained optimistic longer than most about AEW. The Punk situation was horrible, of course, but at the end of it I felt that if they played their cards right in the following months, with hot storylines and strong individual performances, they realistically could have rebounded from it. Instead they jobbed out Jay White to a one-legged MJF and gave us the Devil storyline.
The solid 9 months after Brawl Out where Dave ran with any story that made Punk look bad. It was an uphill battle post Brawl Out 2022, but hearing one sides unopposed version of events for almost a year did permanent damage to Punk’s (and eventually the Elite’s) perception with the core fanbase. Punk’s actions may had divided the fanbase, but Meltzer kept poisoning the well each week until it made every party look bad. In hindsight, Tony Khan’s rep might have suffered the most from the Observer’s coverage.
I love how Dave and Bryan both got statistics sent to them detailing how the overrun loses viewers and Bryan looked at it wondering what the problem could be and Dave of course somehow did number gymnastics and spun it as a positive somehow. The guy is literally nuts sometimes
The decline started when Hangman won the title. His momentum wasn't capitalized on at all and Bryan, Punk, and Cole coming into the company overshadowed the champion with a poor structure to using the starpower the company now had. Anything involving WWE being AEW's decline is a cope. If the show is good people will watch.
When Hangman and the Dark Order lost the 5 man tag vs. The Elite for his AEW title shot was the beginning of the decline imo. AEW had the biggest babyface in wrestling at that point in time and lost it. In that moment. My mind can't be changed 😂
I think you mean Hangman and the Dark Order, but I agree that having that huge build up to the match, then having the Elite come out to a goofy Space Jam theme and then beating Hangman was the first real sign of trouble. That was tailor made to push Hangman to the moon (and get a little rub on the Dark Order as a midcard stable they could use for another few years), and instead AEW said "no thanks, I'm good."
Cody leaving. Brawl Out/CM Punk firing. Constant random matches with no build and storyline. Jericho has Go Away Heat. The Elite too. And constant blood and super hardcore shit all the fucking time.
as a fan of AEW's product before CM Punk - it's hard to admit but his ugly history with the company really marred the image and shattered the momentum the company had. It will recover but it must accept itself as the alternative, not the lead car.
I believe it started when the match between Kenny Omega and Bryan Danielson at AEW Grand Slam Dynamite in September 2021 ended in a time limit draw. Yes, Match Outcomes can hurt a promotion in terms of popularity. See the outcome of Hulk Hogan vs. Nick Bockwinkel at Super Sunday 1983 which started the decline and eventual demise of the AWA.
I think AEW's decline can be traced all the way back to Cody Rhodes' departure. He was the company's very heart and soul that you could feel something was missing. But the ultimate nail in the coffin, in my view, was when Vince McMahon stepped down and WWE as a whole started distancing itself from him once all those sexual assault/harassment allegations surfaced. Triple H assuming full creative control meant bad news for Tony Kahn since AEW was marketed as an alternative to Vince's atrocious booking. But rather than adapt accordingly, Tony Kahn doubled-down on the same formula and assumed it was enough to ride out every storm.
The decline started backstage when Cody left On screen when punk beat hangman for the title, and immediately got injured. That summer killed the company, I would say the precise catalyst was the crowd jump injury Once punk got hurt after beating their only homegrown star, the backstage issues officially crept on to the screen. Vince left, brawl out happened, leading to the fan sentiment shifting, and boom.
Nobody wants to admit how bad the first show was and that Tony constantly pushing small guys who aren't over damages their product more than anything else... It's been on the decline since day 1, Cody leaving, Punk leaving, Vince leaving WWE and other things compounded it... The worst for me though is Jericho, everything he's touched is awful... Then there's Edge... What a waste of money that signing was too... Also booking MJF switching heel/babyface constantly has made him worse as well... I could go on...
Their first show was probably the hottest their product ever was, I realize it’s garbage now but saying it’s been bad since day 1 is asinine, lay off the fentanyl.
@@Tribalkeef39 I thought it was a poor show (Brandon cutler had a singles match… says it all)… in my opinion they blew every chance they had to keep an audience after…
I was so hopeful after the first All In. The very first tv episode made me lose that hope. I still continued watching for a few months but grew more and more disenchanted.
@@karlm641 A banger of an opener with Cody and Guevara, a match that had been building for 5 months between Hangman and PAC, the first ever women’s championship match, and killer trios main event that was capped off with a huge surprise at the end, and you wanna bitch about Cutler having to get squashed by MJF whom they were establishing as a top heel? That’s the complaint? By comparison the first ever SmackDown on Fox was overshadowed by a stupid squash main event that made Kofi look like a geek, nevermind that Owens was part of a killer ladder match, but that’s the logic you live by I guess.
@@oelboy same, I wanted it to do so well but then when you see them catering to a tiny part of the audience you realise it’s doomed… look at Cody, he clearly left because he realised it was going downhill… Kenny looks to have lost interest as well
"There's no such thing as long term booking anymore. It's week-to-week."
What an incredibly stupid thing to say. I'm sorry - no, wait, I'm not sorry - that is just monumentally freaking stupid. Long-term booking is one of the most important ingredients to satisfying wrestling. No wonder I went from loving AEW to being completely indifferent about it.
💯
The idea that longterm booking doesn't exist is beyond idiotic considering Cody had a storyline that was like 2 years long? Sami had a long one as well. Roman had his tribal chief stuff take years and it's technically still going. Rhea/Dom has been going for a hell of a long time now too.
And those are all the most interesting things.
@RavenGlenn pretty sure the OP meant in AEW.
@@user-vq8fq1ty7c WWE does have long term storytelling, but it’s usually lazy storytelling. A lot of the same thing over and over again until a big show. Cody’s 2 year story to the WWE championship did not even involve the bloodline until 3 months before wrestlemaina. All the story was before then was that Cody saying he wants the title that was taken from his father. Everyone in WWE wants to be the world champion. If it takes Austin theory 10 years to win his first world title, WWE would promote it as a 10 year story in the making. That wouldn’t be a 10 year story, that’s just the point and time when Austin theory got to that level.
Back to Cody, the first year of him back in WWE consisted of him wrestling Seth 3 times, getting injured, then winning the royal rumble. That sounds like a lot of good detailed story telling there.
Agreed.
Obviously there's certain aspects that are beyond anyone's control, and as a booker you have to adapt to those obstacles as they come, but to say "You can't book long-term" reeks of a poor craftsman blaming his tools.
Cody leaving.
Punk drama.
Roster bloating causes AEW to lose its identity as pushing young, fresh talent.
Vince out, HHH in.
Tony’s booking: Minimal thought and planning turned into zero.
“Family business” mentality: Tony has literally three AEW titles plus Fulham and Jags responsibilities. Hire staff and delegate like a real business.
We all should love Tony for his passion and starting AEW. It’s unfortunate the fans are going to be disappointed since he doesn’t appear to want to adjust like any good CEO would.
Death by a thousand cuts.
You can give WWE, Punk and others credit, but AEW had many, many flaws from the start that were never addressed and just became worse.
It was just way more exciting and different than WWE at the time which was just god awful for so many years
I think the biggest issue is Tony Khan’s booking
@@dankestranch8738 his booking was phenomenal for the first 3 years but I guess after that he ran out of ideas.
@@ryan_alexanderhis booking was not that good, it just featured different & new types of wrestlers than WWE, which was also horrible at the time.
@@CM-jc7gk; THIS ☝🏻
Let’s not forget the Joey Janelas and Sonny Kisses of the world, among countless others.
When you 2 started doing those "Punk got Cabana fired" rumors
Stop acting like you dont know what happen lol
No accountability at all
@@perryco34 None whatsoever.
@@henrygvidonas9573crazy right
@@Mortallica03 those rumours that they didn’t start? And that didn’t happen? Cabana never got fired, he moved to ROH I understand y’all wanna scapegoat Dave and Bryan but they didn’t break the punk-cabana rumours, if memory serves I think it was SRS
Bryan and Meltzer's handling of the Brawl Out reporting was so poorly handled
Stupid booking and cm punk leaving
For me personally, it started with Punk's media scrum as that was a look behind the curtain that did huge damage to the image that I had of the company and of many of the characters involved. I imagine that I was by far not the only one who felt that way.
@@xagon2012 cult of personality for sure he has over you strange people.
@@TheBadderman how is it Punks fault when he exposed the stupidity of the company lmao
Punk's scrum was the most entertaining thing that ever happened in AEW.
Stopped watching AEW after that and haven’t watched it since
Punk debut was the biggest AEW moment by far. Punk leaving was the biggest blow. Also please remember that during the infamous Punk muffin rant, TK sat right next to him absolutely clueless. Didn't speak up, didn't try to pivot or change the subject, just sat there making goofy faces. Sitting there not stopping it was akin to supporting it in the eyes of the elite and I think that's why TK is going so overboard trying to appease their terrible creative now.
It is a numerous amount of things. Cody leaving Tony Khan buying ROH having to many belts also Brawl Out and Brawl In and firing CM Punk.
Bingo !
Punk fucked over himself by behaving like an unprofessional prick
Yeah, and its not only the ROH titles, it's also the mexican and japanese titles. TBS and TNT titles, I hate so much. As if WWE would make a USA Network Championship, a FOX Championship and in a cpuple months, the Netflix Championship
@@LuigiTheItalian Practically stealing the NJPW and CMLL belts to build their own wrestlers. I hated when TNA did that shit, and I'm not any fonder of it now.
@@LuigiTheItalianwhat’s the big issue with tbs and tnt belts? They’re just men and women tv titles
When Vince was pushed out power/triple h taking over creative is when the decline slowly started & punk being fired was just the nail in the coffin.
Punk got himself fired.
How do you have a nail for a coffin for a company that's been renewed and is still alive?
@@stilnoxVisions they are living in their own bubble dont try and reason with them
@@xddddddddddd4646 - you got that right!
@@stilnoxVisions the only reason AEW was as successful as it was, was because WWE was so bad. Now that WWE is better they have gone back. That's my theory anyway.
When Cody left shoud've been a red flag
A bloody big one
Definitely
*ding!* *ding!* *ding!* *ding!*
You got this exactly right! I think Cody provided a ton of counterbalance to the Bucks and Omega's dumb, selfish booking and/or Tony being a giant mark without a clue on how to run a wrestling company. With him out of the way, the inmates were able to run the asylum. By June 2022, I was rapidly fed up with AEW's product and it only got worse from there.
I think Cody and Tony had very different views of pro wrestling. Cody believes in storytelling and Tony is an in ring guy. When Tony decided to take over creative, I'm sure he started stepping on his toes. Not to mention the way Cody was presented. He was pushed into a feud with every johnny come lately that showed up in AEW. And on top of that the fans always wanted him to do the job for them! lol They would get furious when Cody would get a win.
Why? He was awful.
I am so glad that Bryan realizes what viewership really is. I have never seen ESPN brag about the 18-49 demo, when they release viewership numbers on sporting events.
Hes been known???
18-49 was never even a thing Dave or Bryan talked about until AEW came around. They were fishing for any metric of data to hold up and point to and say AEW is competing with WWE. When the reality is AEW never came close to Smack down or RAW.
The afraid for my life comment killed it.
I think if CM Punk and The Elite would've worked together, this would've been a HUGE storyline for AEW. It's too bad that never happened
but they we wouldn't have the SCAPEGOAT
@@capngeeoff Punk & FTR vs Omega & the Bucks would’ve been a huge main event matchup.
I'm glad they didn't, now we getting a great program with C.M Punk in WWE
No one wants to hear this but :
- 9/4/2022 Punk injured
- 6/17/2023 Punk's return in-ring
-1/4/2023 Omega has one of the greatest matches of all time at WK17
- 6/25/2023 Omega has another INCREDIBLE match at Forbidden Door.
these guys do not belong in the ring together, you can cry about how much it would have DrAwN, I don't care guy doesn't belong anywhere near Omega.
Obviously not Punks fault, as he's in a huge deal program over at the Fed with someone who's not his biggest fan. But they're pros. The kids obviously were the issue. Not Kenny though, as he's explained.
I would say it accelerated with "the devil" storyline
100%. I did not understand how the fans were vibing with that corny friendship storyline.
Cody and Punk were devastating losses for AEW.
The declined started after Cody left
Yup
@@jims.6393 Aew fans really hate on cody Rhodes he was the MVP of the company he was who carried this organization behind his back and what did the EVPs Tony khan do they kick him out.
@@jims.6393 Tony khan failed to replicate cody Rhodes vision of what Aew is about they have lost their identity due to Tony conman fetish on ex wwe wrestlers.
I think the decline started when they fired CM Punk because CM Punk was that main attraction
Wrong. Started with first punk incident. It ruined its fanbase
The decline started when Brawl Out happened, and Punk got fired.
That was a big part of it. But I think it started before that, when Cody left.
So which is it? Those 2 incidents were a year apart.
@@TheSteveTellDepends on what you interpret as "the decline." After Cody left, a decline was certainly inevitable, however, this decline was intercepted by Punk joining the company.
You could argue that the heavy decline after Punk left was a continuation of the post-Cody decline.
@@TheSteveTellI would say specifically at the first All In 2023.
That was a great PPV. Too bad what happened that day behind the scenes.
Correction: the decline started when Brawl Out happened and Punk DIDN'T get fired.
A real “who shot Hannibal?” moment for this channel.
AEW is the agenda of Dave Meltzer put into practice. New we have the results, and final judgement is: The wrestling business killed itself to please a 60 year-old puroresu mark.
NOW you’re asking this question??
Denial can be a hard nut to crack.😁
The overrun argument is so funny because there are all these well-thought out arguments but I bet the truth is just that they have no idea how to format an actual TV show so they just go longer than they should.
They have overruns because Tony was an attitude era mark and they had overruns back then. That's the only reason.
@@sleevedaces81 the overruns are a wbd decision you marks.
@@TheBaddermanyes WBD is forcing them
The gold boat rant literally explains why overruns aren't justified most of the time.
When Cody left.
Not preventing Brawl Out from happening.
Siding with the Elite over Punk.
Firing Punk.
Letting Chris Jericho run wild all over Dynamite.
Realistically we could keep going 🤷🏾♂️
Hot take. 🔥
If jericho isnt on Dynamite, it lacks star power.
@@KCU_Unfilteredvery hot take my guy while I can see where you're coming from you really can't tell me his stuff is good.
Don't forget the explosion match.
It's literally All ELITE Wrestling, not APW.
They absolutely refuse to admit it was the night Hangman cut the promo on Punk
When they started booking for Uncle Dave's opinion.
Facts
Tony Khan and the executives in charge of AEW made the mistake of not scaling infrastructure and their processes according to the growth in size of the company. When they started, they had a roster of 64 plus whatever office and production staff for two hours weekly plus PPVs. In a year, they doubled the roster’s size but didn’t update their infrastructure to match their growth with an additional hour of TV weekly and Tony Khan taking on almost all the booking responsibilities. This is when we started to see smaller wrestlers showing discontent from lack of work. This was an unsustainable formula as they continued to add more talent but didn’t improve the merchandise, the travel, etc., and Khan was taking on so much stress. The booking started to weaken and then they added ROH which has not really helped company in any meaningful way. A lot of this was masked by the excitement around a new company and Punk arriving only helped that at the beginning. Cody was the first major crack, then Punk more or less put his fingers into the crack and pulled so there was now an undeniable massive issue (whether he was right or wrong is irrelevant). Tony’s mind has since seemed to be focused on the business side now that he’d neglected which has resulted in the worsening booking. He’s going to eventually need to pick one route and find someone to run the other side.
This is a very intelligent post. We should love Tony. However, AEW is his vanity project and not driven by profit motive. He enjoys making all the major decisions. However, it’s devastating for the health of the business and the product.
Hopefully he picks the business side because I want to see if AEW is any better with someone other than Tony Khan heading creative.
When he picked the non drawing Bucks over an actual star CM Punk
Yes to this. Tony letting the Bucks, Hangman, Moxley, & Jericho do whatever they want for however long they want it go will always be a major problem.
This. 1,000% THIS
Agree. I wasn't a huge Punk fan until he came to AEW and I saw why everyone loves this guy. Tony has let the inmates run the asylum. And until he fixes that, AEW will not succeed
The decline started when WWE did the mass releases and AEW began snatching them up. AEW used to be a breath of fresh air but then all the NXT wrestlers they defeated started appearing on the show
I stopped watching NXT when Adam Cole debuted.
I stopped watching AEW when Adam Cole debuted too.
@@joshbouman1654 Adam Cole is overrated and is constantly injured and is nothing but a background player now compared to how he was presented in NXT. Same goes for all of his little friends that left NXT to go with him to AEW at that time.
It Started once Cody left as an EVP
The explosion that didn't happen in the Barb Wire match. It didn't go downhill exactly from that point. It's more it raised an eyebrow about how amateurish this place might be. No matter what anyone thinks about WWE, they are too professional to let something as embarrassing as that happen nowadays.
When a certain billionaire left and the product became better and now having sellouts that’s breaking records
Asinine. As if there are a whole bunch of fans saying: ya know, I had to stop watching aew because wwe is so good right now…. 😂😂😂😂. In reality if aew were good, wwe getting hot would actually help them.
That doesn’t matter. Both nitro and RAW were running on full cylinders back in the 90s and there was millions upon millions of fans watching both programs . You would watch raw then flip the channel to nitro , back and forth it was nuts and they were both on at the same time same day. If AEW was top notch programming, people would watch
WWE was breaking records when Vince was still there. Get the facts straight.
The first implosion between the Elite & CM Punk, the backstage footage was the nail in the coffin as it showed Punk was still their biggest draw.
Blaming the wwe is so comical. The fact that both nitro and raw were doing monster numbers for years on end shows that if you have a good product, then people will watch both. Dynamite does not have a good show, and so people stopped watching. Raw and nitro were on at the same time on the same day. WWE having great success is not an excuse. Period.
when WWE started getting hot that's when AEW'S decline started also CM punk getting fired and returning to WWE at Survivor Series last year and also when vince mcmahon got forced out of WWE and triple H took full control of creative there's so many reasons how AEW'S decline started and it's not getting better anytime soon tony khan and his booking is the problem.
Asinine. As if there are a whole bunch of fans saying: ya know, I had to stop watching aew because wwe is so good right now…. 😂😂😂😂. In reality if aew were good, wwe getting hot would actually help them.
@datacipher I mean it's the truth lol WWE is breaking records while AEW isn't the only records they're breaking is record low viewership for rampage and collison dynamite on most weeks are mostly hit and miss.
When Tony stopped listening to other people. Clearly he thinks he's still booker of the year.
That was me who sent in the question and it was my first time so I’m buzzing it gets a highlight video on the channel.
The purchase of ROH with Revolution 2022 being the peak of AEW.
Tony is rich he sucks at everything else the end.
I thought the decline started as soon as the build to the first Forbidden Door. All the momentum stopped while Punk was hurt, MJF was out, and a bunch of short-term storylines involving outsiders started.
that's when i stopped watching
It was a mess.
I agree 100%. It seems like Tony started to do matches that he wanted to see instead of what the people wanted to see
Also, I know some people love him and all the more power to him, but something in AEW died for me the moment Will Ospreay showed up on their tv with Aussie Open. I just thought of him and Jay White, and Kota Ibushi as being the leftover NJPW guys I never wanted to see in AEW -- the guys responsible for tanking business when Omega left and Tanahashi and Okada started to break down. Now we're living in "the Ospreay Era" where everything is built around dream matches and crazy spots but nothing hits on an emotional level. Compare the MJF vs Punk feud to his feud with Ospreay, for instance. If TK ever signs actual trash like Gabe Kidd or Clark Connors I'll know it's time for me to stop watching for good.
There was a noticeable drop right after Revolution. Dynamite had been steadily losing viewers but there was a 100k drop overnight there. Not sure if Sting's retirement meant that much to a certain demographic, or if fans got sucked into WrestleMania season and they only have time for one show... But March seems to be when AEW went from regularly in the 800s with a shot at a milly, to regularly in the 600s with a shot at 800.
When people finally realised it's All Friends phony Wrestling where these Indy darlings are NOT even trying to make money but rather waste and spend a billionaire's son's bank account until his daddy keeps giving him money to waste.
For me it all started with the build up to the first Forbidden Door, followed by that MJF promo where he called Tony Khan a mark, and then ROH being involved. May have timeline wrong there but that's when I remember starting to lose interest
Now most of AEW storyline are dropped.. they turn face and heel with no build-up. After turning, they explain at Collision or Rampage why they change their mind
Fans like backstage stuff but alot of AEWs drama seemed high schoolish and self-induced. I think Tony found out quick its hard ro deal with all those different personalities.
Tony's childishness is part of the problem.
Tony ran out of steam creatively after the conclusion of the Hangman arc. Punk vs MJF was so good it propped up the company for a few more months but creatively the dude lost it and never got it back.
Ahhhh......Maybe when they started out opening up with Sunny Kiss vs Joey Nutella? 😖👈
I agree with Bryan's 2nd point. The week to week booking became absolute nonsense. Cody's long term feuds were the few that made sense. Now it's just endless "bangers" for bangers' sake.
@@doug2731 revisionism. Everyone hated the codyverse at the time.
This is a massive slice of revisionism. Cody verse was dreadful. Everyone wanted to see him turn heel as his character was beyond stale.
It started when the greatest AEW wrestler of all time Brian Pillman Jr left for WWE and became Lexus King
😂😂😂 And don’t forget Britney Spears I mean Sean Spears
It went to shit when their biggest star Marko Stunt left 😢
That was legit funny 😅😂😅😂
The "fingerpoke" was when they aired the Brawl Out footage on TV, but some forget that TK did that in a desperation attempt to pop ratings during a skid at the time. Which it did... for one night. They haven't reached that number since. The decline started a few months before that. MJF was a star but not a brand-carrying level star at champion and TK's behavior in interviews and on Twitter turned him off to a lot of fans online.
The decline started as soon as Cody left, It gave the perception that AEW wasn't the place to be anymore.
It wasn’t one or even three things. AEW got me watching wrestling again after tapping out around 2003. It wasn’t perfect when it started, but it had potential. I think all of AEW’s many problems can fall into two baskets: The nonsensical booking and the inmates running the asylum.
There is a quarter by quarter chart going around on the internet and it shows AEW decline started right after Cody left. It started to fall after Cody then after Punk left it plummeted off a cliff. Tony chose to back the wrong wrestlers.
Also I hate the excuse that WWE being good hurt AEW they don't even air on the same night.
Yes. I've been telling fans that the decline can be proven to have started when Cody left. Obvious drop in quality
@@Saddler1944 Cody and punk are Pg corporate superstars. They never belonged in the alternative.
@@TheBaddermanCody, the guy who got beat bloody with a belt by the Rock who told Cody on live TV that it's what happens "when you fuck with the Final Boss"?
Being an entertaining main event pro wrestler = "PG Corporate" (to people who huff cleaning products)
@@CM-jc7gk weren't it a blood capsule?🤣🤣🤣 Pg Teletubby children's show.
@@TheBadderman I just consider them to be pro wrestlers that want to go out there and make a name for themselves but also help others that use to be in their shoes. Everyone in AEW seems to be out for themselves. They are out to fleece a money mark for everything he's got and give nothing in return. but sure keep your buzz word insults like "PG" and "Corporate"
Cody...
His departure confirmed what everyone suspected.
Cody leaving started it, Punk being fired cemented it.
I understand they had to fire Punk, but other than the nichest of a niche audience, not a single soul gives a flying fuck about Luke Perry’s kid. Only time he gets a reaction is when they make reference to Punk.
I stopped watching AEW after watching Darby Allin and Nick Wayne beat Gates of Agony clean. I was done. Suspension of disbelief was ruined.
Punk about to headline a WWE pay per view. Punk has exemplified the " when life hands you lemons, make lemonade" concept. Whereas, everyone else from Brawl Out has declined.
I absolutely maintain that ROH and 2022 in general was what started the decline.
In that year alone we had:
-CM Punk coming in and killing Hangman Page's momentum as a main eventer when he could have very easily carried the company on his back for 1-2 years until losing to MJF.
-The interim title mess between Jon Moxley and CM Punk, then Thunder Rosa and Toni Storm.
-Cody & Brandi Rhodes leaving, and as a result a lot of harmony and positive morale going away.
-the ROH Buyout, which hamstrung Tony Khan's booking because now he had to essentially run 2 companies now, and all the talent that came with that (even though The Kingdom and The Briscoes were doing just fine in TNA, and Tony could have just not hired them)
-Wardlow getting squandered (who to blame for that is up to your own judgement)
-Guys like Scorpio Sky and Miro who were on an upward trajectory being seemingly erased overnight with no explanation.
-Adam Cole's injury at Forbidden Door I.
-Brawl Out resulting in a bunch of storylines being dropped without explanation or conclusion.
-Chris Jericho getting MASSIVELY overexposed in a ridiculous and nonsensical way.
-Guys like Andrade being relegated to being background characters.
Hangman Page killed his own momentum, when he decided to go into business for himself,
-Guys like Scorpio Sky and Miro who were on an upward trajectory being seemingly erased overnight with no
-Adam Cole's injury at Forbidden Door I.
All 3 got injured and thats not fault of TK or AEW that was just unfortunate and bad luck
I mostly agree but I can't get behind Hangman carrying the company his reign had already become stale.
@@Mortallica03 I never blamed TK for those thing happening. I understand those were things out of his control, the point was that they were apart of a larger bad year for the company.
Hangman??? Jesus Christ. He is the definition of mid carder.
If everyone was honest. The decline happened when Vince left the first time. WWE fans who were starting to get tired of what WWE was doing, were giving aew a chance. Once Vince left, those fans went back to WWE. You did not hear so many complaints about ex wwe guys going to aew until Vince left
The decline started. When TK kept collecting ex WWE wrestlers like Matt Cardona collects actions figures. AEW has STOPPED being the alternative to WWE. Instead, it has become WWE 2.0.
Hilarious
When Hangman went into business for himself on Punk. That started it…
Uncle Dave is not going to like this
When tony made an appearance with busted open radio it's a sign the meltzer Tony relationship is in a bad state currently... Next day this video is titled this.. Tony doesn't think he needs these guys anymore and he's just skipped ahead to bust it open radio
My " F this I'm outta here" moment with AEW was when Orange Cassidy and Penta traded back and forth Canadian destroyers.
AEW had glaring weaknesses from the beginning-- all the shit Cornette pointed out from the rip. Over time as the excitement and newness has worn off, it's simply sunk under the weight of itself.
I stopped watching AEW when they fired Punk
The decline started after the first episode. That was the highest rated show they've ever done.
CM punk did the most damage
If you ask me its when I left. And I have a feeling a lot of people left around the same time. Which was around the time Cody left.
It really upsets me when people think some of us fans left because we didn’t “get it”. I bought Jericho’s bubbly champagne for thanksgiving and had 3 cousins invested in the drinks so MUCH that I made them fans of AEW.
The issue with AEW is that Tony Khan clearly has no structure in his company. He doesn’t listen to anybody that he pays for.
People get injured constantly. And what I don’t understand is how are the same wrestlers in the same position in 6-months to a year?
Some of us fans left because after 2 years we realized this is just a rich mans vanity project fueled by a journalist who hates proper grammar.
“AEW has become the worst of the WWE and the worst of the indies”
Brawl Out wasn’t a cause, it was an effect of mismanagement by Tony and the EVPs
Very interesting to hear about Tony said he wad done with long term booking. I've noticed it a lot recently, especially when Roddy beat Orange for the international title then immediately dropped it to Will. I know Will is consistently one of, if not, the biggest reactions on the shows but that felt so strange. Then this nonsense with Moxley demanding Darby's title shot (already weird and out of character) because Bryan can't compete. But then Nigel challenging Bryan for that night minutes later. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Bryan and Nigel are finally going to wrestle but they could have done this better. It's really interesting that even though numbers keep going down it seems like they keep ranking high for their time slot.
Tony Khan needs to realize, whether he likes it or not, AEW is wrestling but it is also a television show. And you do yourself no favors trying to pretend otherwise.
From day 1...
ish
AEW still hasn't built stars. Swerve didn't do anything to boost business. So many guys are in the same position from when they debuted, and worse people like Darby have been in the same spot for 5 years.
Remember when Sammy Guevara was supposed to be a star?
The Devil storyline
For me it was the exploding barbed wire death match that was the true start. It was such a joke and so minor league. There were BIGGER things, for sure. But that’s where the needle first started pointing down. Multiple underwhelming promises that were massively oversold and seeing hot starts get thrown in the deep freezer. Punk & Cody leaving, etc.
The decline started in 2019. The battle royal with all the comedy wrestlers
Guys like orange Cassidy being booked like prime John cena definitely turned people away.
There were ailments from the beginning, but the biggest thing that stung AEW for me is the perception problem.
For a long while, it was the nice place, the good place, the one that treated it's staff right and where people were happy to come to work. But with the issues in the way that the company was ran at times, it's clear this perception would never last and once it wars off.....
WWE also helped them out in this. Under Vince, we now know it was a different place than so many people will attest to it being now, and in 2019 and during the pandemic, there were mass releases at a time when people were already low, seemingly to try to secure a sale to line the pockets of the people in charge. It was PR suicide, and it made AEW look so much better by comparison.
I'm adamant that the biggest AEW ever was, was signing Adam Cole and Bryan Danielson and having them debut the same night. Once again, it's the perception. You take a guy that everyone loves in Danielson, and one that basically ran NXT for like 2 years+ and still had his whole career ahead of him, and you put the middle finger up to the establishment. AEW had all the momentum.
Turn the clock forward, the Punk stuff really fractured the company. It may just be a case of similar timeline but the decline for me is definitely within this like 9 month window, probably closer to the Brawl Out.
Like everybody else, I think the decline may have started right around when AEW canceled Clobberin' Time.
The bro-mance story + cm punk elite issues really just killed it for me. I haven't watched since.
Half the roster are dwarves, no one takes them seriously.
When WWE kicked Vince & Co. to the curb for good while AEW started to fumble, WWE gained momentum in their favor with big crowds, massive profits, etc.(due to WWE has the Global Name-Brand Recognition to their advantage), AEW on the other hand is struggling to fill seats (outside of their loyal fans that are niche fanatics of pro wrestling) and it’s honestly frustrating to see.
At this point, AEW is dealing with a “First They Ignore You, Then They Laugh At You, Then They Fight You, and Then. . . . . You Win (Hopefully)” situation.
No legged guy in a battle royal 😂😂😂😂😂
I think it's pretty obvious at this point that CM Punk was the worst thing to happen to AEW. He got a brief bump for the company, but that didn't translate to fans who actually stuck around. His performances were lackluster and he constantly got injured. He created a toxic environment backstage and brawled with other wrestlers repeatedly. He publicly buried the company, gave more ammunition to the already relentless army of trolls who have f*ck-all better to do with their time than hate another wrestling company for existing, and demoralized everyone inside AEW and out... the performers, the executives, the fans, and the media all just deflated any excitement or faith in the product after Phil's bullsh*ttery. Yes we can point at other things that also coalesced around that time - Cody getting booed out of the company, purchase of ROH, shift in writing, the shuffle that everyone seems lost in, Kenny's illness - but I think Phil kinda' overshadows all of it (and probably caused a bunch of it).
And the hardest part of all of this is that it's difficult to make any kind of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism of AEW because the well has been so poisoned by the aforementioned sh*thead trolls who relentlessly attack AEW and its wrestlers just for existing. I was a fan of AEW before AEW and I certainly have my list of things they could have done better, but you can't even talk about it when f*cking online neckbeards are constantly polluting any discussion about AEW.
It started the day Tony Khan decided to start a wrestling company using his pocket money
His daddy's inheritance
I remained optimistic longer than most about AEW. The Punk situation was horrible, of course, but at the end of it I felt that if they played their cards right in the following months, with hot storylines and strong individual performances, they realistically could have rebounded from it.
Instead they jobbed out Jay White to a one-legged MJF and gave us the Devil storyline.
When they had a legless man in a Battle Royal...
The solid 9 months after Brawl Out where Dave ran with any story that made Punk look bad. It was an uphill battle post Brawl Out 2022, but hearing one sides unopposed version of events for almost a year did permanent damage to Punk’s (and eventually the Elite’s) perception with the core fanbase. Punk’s actions may had divided the fanbase, but Meltzer kept poisoning the well each week until it made every party look bad. In hindsight, Tony Khan’s rep might have suffered the most from the Observer’s coverage.
I love how Dave and Bryan both got statistics sent to them detailing how the overrun loses viewers and Bryan looked at it wondering what the problem could be and Dave of course somehow did number gymnastics and spun it as a positive somehow. The guy is literally nuts sometimes
Spring 2022 is the answer - both from the drama that LED to brawl out and the change in show quality on WWE programming
The decline started when Hangman won the title. His momentum wasn't capitalized on at all and Bryan, Punk, and Cole coming into the company overshadowed the champion with a poor structure to using the starpower the company now had. Anything involving WWE being AEW's decline is a cope. If the show is good people will watch.
Hangman fucking sucks. Always will
Brawl Out 2022
The decline started when the AEW fight Forever game bombed. That pissed off a lot of people
When Hangman and the Dark Order lost the 5 man tag vs. The Elite for his AEW title shot was the beginning of the decline imo. AEW had the biggest babyface in wrestling at that point in time and lost it. In that moment. My mind can't be changed 😂
I think you mean Hangman and the Dark Order, but I agree that having that huge build up to the match, then having the Elite come out to a goofy Space Jam theme and then beating Hangman was the first real sign of trouble. That was tailor made to push Hangman to the moon (and get a little rub on the Dark Order as a midcard stable they could use for another few years), and instead AEW said "no thanks, I'm good."
Cody leaving.
Brawl Out/CM Punk firing.
Constant random matches with no build and storyline.
Jericho has Go Away Heat. The Elite too.
And constant blood and super hardcore shit all the fucking time.
as a fan of AEW's product before CM Punk - it's hard to admit but his ugly history with the company really marred the image and shattered the momentum the company had. It will recover but it must accept itself as the alternative, not the lead car.
I believe it started when the match between Kenny Omega and Bryan Danielson at AEW Grand Slam Dynamite in September 2021 ended in a time limit draw. Yes, Match Outcomes can hurt a promotion in terms of popularity. See the outcome of Hulk Hogan vs. Nick Bockwinkel at Super Sunday 1983 which started the decline and eventual demise of the AWA.
Turns out 5 star matches don’t sell tickets like the marks said they would.
Cody leaving was sign that this company that helped start, would never eclipse WWE in his life time.
I think AEW's decline can be traced all the way back to Cody Rhodes' departure. He was the company's very heart and soul that you could feel something was missing.
But the ultimate nail in the coffin, in my view, was when Vince McMahon stepped down and WWE as a whole started distancing itself from him once all those sexual assault/harassment allegations surfaced. Triple H assuming full creative control meant bad news for Tony Kahn since AEW was marketed as an alternative to Vince's atrocious booking. But rather than adapt accordingly, Tony Kahn doubled-down on the same formula and assumed it was enough to ride out every storm.
When Jim Cornette said it was
The decline started backstage when Cody left
On screen when punk beat hangman for the title, and immediately got injured. That summer killed the company, I would say the precise catalyst was the crowd jump injury
Once punk got hurt after beating their only homegrown star, the backstage issues officially crept on to the screen. Vince left, brawl out happened, leading to the fan sentiment shifting, and boom.
Nobody wants to admit how bad the first show was and that Tony constantly pushing small guys who aren't over damages their product more than anything else... It's been on the decline since day 1, Cody leaving, Punk leaving, Vince leaving WWE and other things compounded it... The worst for me though is Jericho, everything he's touched is awful... Then there's Edge... What a waste of money that signing was too... Also booking MJF switching heel/babyface constantly has made him worse as well... I could go on...
Their first show was probably the hottest their product ever was, I realize it’s garbage now but saying it’s been bad since day 1 is asinine, lay off the fentanyl.
@@Tribalkeef39 I thought it was a poor show (Brandon cutler had a singles match… says it all)… in my opinion they blew every chance they had to keep an audience after…
I was so hopeful after the first All In. The very first tv episode made me lose that hope. I still continued watching for a few months but grew more and more disenchanted.
@@karlm641 A banger of an opener with Cody and Guevara, a match that had been building for 5 months between Hangman and PAC, the first ever women’s championship match, and killer trios main event that was capped off with a huge surprise at the end, and you wanna bitch about Cutler having to get squashed by MJF whom they were establishing as a top heel? That’s the complaint? By comparison the first ever SmackDown on Fox was overshadowed by a stupid squash main event that made Kofi look like a geek, nevermind that Owens was part of a killer ladder match, but that’s the logic you live by I guess.
@@oelboy same, I wanted it to do so well but then when you see them catering to a tiny part of the audience you realise it’s doomed… look at Cody, he clearly left because he realised it was going downhill… Kenny looks to have lost interest as well