Steve Carlton appeared in 44 games and pitched 30 complete games by himself. There were about than many in all of baseball last year. an untouchable record
Juan Marichal: 1968: completed 30 out of 38 starts, going 26-9 with an ERA of .243 1969: completed 27 out of 36 starts, going 21-11 with ERA of 2.10 Sandy Koufax: 1965: completed 27 out of 41 starts, going 26-8 with ERA of 2.04 1966: completed 27 out of 41 starts, going 27-9 with ERA of 1.73 Bob Gibson: 1968: completed 28 out of 34 starts, going 22-9 with ERA of 1.12 1969: completed 28 out of 35 starts, going 20-13 with ERA of 2.18
@@BaseballAFHe was something else. When I was a kid my folks took a couple of my mom’s work friends (who were both British) with us to a Phillies game in 1984. Carlton was pitching. Baseball baffled Steve & Carolyn (my mom’s British friends) but we did our best to explain the rules. One of my most vivid memories of that afternoon was my Dad explaining how pitchers are pretty much always the worst hitters on their teams and that’s why they bat last. A couple batters later Lefty comes up to the plate & launches one into the bleachers with the bases loaded. Steve & Carolyn gave up on trying to understand baseball after that….
If Carlton had been playing with a good team that year pitching as he was, the question is not would he have won 30 games. The question is how far over 30 he would have been and possibly have set a modern-era major league record.
Doing some quick math, he could have went 37-3 with a team that scored 4 runs per game. That's utterly ridiculous and it would be even more impressive than his season already was.
I was 15 in 1972 and an avid Phillies fan. My father would take me to a few games that year but only when Carlton was scheduled. I remember going to a game in mid August when he won his 15th in a row 9-4 against the Reds. It was the last game of the 3 game series where the Phils lost the first 2 game scoring a total of 2 runs, then Carlton pitches the 3rd game and they score 9 for him. He lost his next start against the Braves and knuckleballer Phil Niekro 2-1 in eleven innings. Both Niekro and Carlton went the distance with Carlton having 10 Ks. Both pitchers had over 160 pitches each. I remember a game against the Giants early in the season at Candlestick Park when Carlton gave up a single to Chris Spier to open the game (Spier was a notorious Carlton killer his whole career) and then Carlton retired the next 27 Giants with 14 Ks. It was the closest Carlton ever came to a no hitter (actually closest to a perfect game). Carlton had a wicked curve ball that year (almost like Koufax’s) but then gave it up for the slider which was his out pitch the remainder of his career.
Thanks for that great video! I was a 15 y/o that year and I remember that season so vividly! Despite the Phillies having one of the worst teams in the league they KNEW they were going to win the day that Carlton was pitching! He was such a great competitor and his slider made superstar hitters look helpless!
Wow! I knew he had a great year but I didn't know how dominant he was. Good research! I am still mad at the Cardinals for letting him get away back then! That damn Augie Busch-cheap old geezer of an owner!
@@christopherengel7436 I must say I rooted for Carlton while he pitched for the Phillies. He was that good. He was beyond amazing when he was with the Phillies.
That's why this trade was only viewed as 'bad' in hindsight. At the time they were peers of each other, but who was to know what Carlton would do in 1972?
It was a magical year for us Phillies fans even though we finished last. We knew that every fourth game, we were as good as any team in baseball. I remember early in the season against the San Francisco Giants at the old Candlestick Park, Carlton gave up a single to his thorn-in-his-side nemesis shortstop Chris Spier. He proceeded to pitch a perfect game from that point on, 27 up, 27 down. I went to Veterans Stadium at least a half dozen times that season, but only when Carlton was scheduled to pitch. I was there behind the plate (albeit in the nosebleed 700 section) for his 20th win (which was also his 15th win in a row). The following 1973 season, he went 13-20, but us Carlton fans never lost hope with him, and he righted his ship in 1974 and then won 3 more CY Young awards over the next 8 years.
Carlton was a decent batter as well. Almost on par with the Phillies team (7,8,9 slot) during those years - Carlton has a .200+ lifetime avg, got 23 basehits as a pitcher in '72. Hit .291 one season while playing as a pitcher and was a pinch hitter in 1968 and as late as 1984.
I was looking into it, now that you mention it, and its wild that he's as good as some of the bottom of the lineup bats. Another reason why his year was as good as it was.
I was a twelve year old Phillies fan in '72 and I remember being glued to the radio the night Lefty was attempting to win his 17th straight game which was against Phil Niekro and the Atlanta Braves. I was hanging on every pitch and was bummed-out when Carlton pitched great but lost a 2-1 heartbreaker. The Phils were a woeful bunch in those days so the only thing to look forward to was when Steve was on the mound. He might've won 35 if he had a good team around him.
I would have loved to have been alive during this season. Fun fact, if the Phillies would have scored 4 runs in every one of his starts, he would have had 33 wins on the year, so your guess is pretty solid.
Sandy Koufax's record mentioned at 8:10 in this video was with the LA Dodgers who had a winning season record of 95-67. Steve Carlton's record with the Phillies was arguably a more significant accomplisment because of the Phillies losing season record. That comparison should have been stated.
Not really. The key stat to differentiate between pitchers is ERA. 1972 was Carlton's lowest ERA year at 1.97. His next lowest was 2.17 in 1969. Koufax ERAs (1963-66): 1.88, 1.74, 2.04, 1.73 Gibson: 1.12 in 1968, 2.18 in 1969 Marichal: 2.10 in 1969, 2.13 in 1965 Pedro Martinez: 1.74 in 2000, 1.90 in 1997 Kershaw: 1.69 in 2016, 1.77 in 2014, 1.83 in 2013
Best year by a lefty ever...in either league and that includes Koufax, my hero. Incredible number of complete games in addition to all the other NL leading or near leading stats for a starting pitcher. Cripes, he was involved in > 60% of his team's total wins?! That's partially because his squad was so woeful. What a teammate, what a year!
Kershaw's 2014 was better than Carlton's 1972. So was Koufax in1963, 65 and 66. Koufax is the best southpaw of all time. Randy Johnson is probably second. Spahn, Carlton and Glavine in any orser would round out the top 5. David Price, Sabathia and Chris Sale were well on their way for an argument to join that club. Seems like they put too much stress on their arms the last couple of years before they hit free agency to set themselves up for a mega contract that they started racking up injuries and they couldn't pitch to that level anymore after getting those contracts. Sabathia being the only one of the 3 to stay at that level for a couple of years. Price especially dropped off a cliff from day 1 after signing his deal. Thats why teams like the Yankees need to stop giving those huge decade long deals to players like Cole. I think Scherzer was the only pitcher since Maddux to have earned every penny of their megadeal. To think Scherzer lingered on the open market for so long when he first hit FA. If the Nationals hadn't bailed out Borias yet again then Scherzer wouldn't have gotten half of his deal. I remember the talking heads saying anyone that gave him a big contract would regret it. Nobody seemed to believe he would continue to pitch at his high level. Now he is making $40+ million per year and still going strong.
@@robertschumann7737 everything you said is dead on except for your first sentence and I'll explain why. By stating that Kershaw's year was better you are implying one of two things. First, that Kershaw would lose none of his effectiveness in pitching an additional 150 innings. If you do believe that then so be it, but nothing about Kershaw suggests he would have that type of stamina or effectiveness in pitching what would amount to an additional 17 complete games.. That's nothing against Kershaw. As we both know, pitchers have not been conditioned to pitch over 250 innings for decades, let alone 300 although Kershaw did top over 220 a few times. Secondly, you would have to be implying that Carlton gets no "extra credit" over Kershaw for sustaining that type of excellence for 346 innings in contrast to Kershaw's 198. Now, we don't know what Kershaw COULD have done but we do know what Carlton DID do. In essence, I'll just use one basic stat and the logic I follow. A logic that must be followed for all the stats (excluding counting or accumulating stats like wins and K's, etc.) It's exceedingly easier to sustain a low ERA when the innings you pitch are lower, with fewer chances to fail. In this case 150 less chances. That's the whole essence of ERA and the root of it's praise. It's like Tom Seaver maintaining an ERA under 3 for a 20 year career versus someone with the same ERA over 12 years. Same principle. So Kershaw in 2014 has a quarter of a run better ERA than Carton in 150 less innings. I know there is more to this than ERA but that's the basis of my argument, that having those stats close or even a little better than Carlton lose their sting when the amount of innings pitched is is so much less. Thanks for reading.
His out pitch was the hard slider, perhaps the most detrimental pitch to a hurlers elbow, and yet Carlton didn't go on the DL until his 19th season. A genetic marvel.
It's amazing how we have so many marvels of that age of pitching, like Ryan and Carlton. We get so many interesting seasons from them defying the odds.
It's an amazing year no matter how you slice it. However, I read that most of the Phillies' players had far better statistics when Carlton was pitching vs another Phillies' starter. Carlton's presence turned bad players into much better players because of their belief that they had a chance only because Carlton was on the mound. I would be curious to see the WAR of the players when playing in a Carlton start vs other Phillie pitchers.
I don't think I can figure WAR per players in Carlton's starts, but the team's batting average, on base and slugging are much higher in Carlton's starts compared to the rest of the time, so what you're saying makes a lot of sense
Maybe true of that season, but by and large he got terrible support. It almost looked like Carlton wanted to only get 1 run of support so he could only win with a shut out, or hitters just said "Drinks on me tonight. Carlton's pitching tomorrow so the team won't need us."
Another amazing stat is from the start of the season on April 15 to May 15,the team was 15-10.But they had the core of their successful mid 70s and 80 WS champion team in place beginning their careers.
Not saying it was a good trade, but Rick Wise had a nice major-league career. As a trade, this does not approach Amos Otis for Joe Foy, Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi, Tom Seaver for a bag of baseballs...you know, the Mets!
@@BaseballAF Lets go Mets! (Enjoy it while we can until the next disaster) ;-p And yes, Wise was no Carlton, but to play in the majors just one day.... P.S. "Youth is wasted on the young" - You only know it was "history" years later. As a boy, I sadly do not remember to number of times my dad came home and said "Good game tonight, Seaver and Carlton, let's go." (And Seaver usually won!)
I am fully riding the joy that I get from the Mets right now, and I wanted that dream too. Seaver is another amazing pitcher that I'd like to do something on (that hasn't already been done)
Hard to top Gibson’s ‘67 season, but Carlton was sick in ‘72. And they were teammates! For the Cardinals, trading away Carlton was the flip side of the Lou Brock trade.
@@LampwicksCigar prolly. Insanely, ridiculously, absurdly, incomparably dominant. Even so, going 27-3 for a team that won 60 games is at least arguably as dominant, just by different measures.
I mentioned this more than 30 years ago when i played minor league ball: Carlton's 1972 season was the greatest ever for any pitcher considering the situation: Winning 27 games (10 losses) on a team that had 59 measly wins (97 losses). Surely, he would have won more than 30 games on even a mediocre team.
Fun Fact: Kid Gleason, listed #23 on the WAR list, was the manager of the 1919 Black Sox. You also mentioned "Irish" Mike Ryan. He served as a coach for the Phillies for more than a decade and was on staff for their 1980, 1983, and 1993 Pennants.
One of the most enjoyable seasons ever, despite their dead-last finish. Happened to be the first year I started watching the Phils. Seemed to be an even trade when Philly got Carlton from St. Louis for right hander Rick Wise. Towards the end of the season a fan ran out on the field, up to Steve at the mound and shook his hand on behalf of all the fans. Philly sports were in a very sorry state at that time.
‘72 Mets owned him … 2-4 3.54 ERA and 1.2 WHIP (0.993 season) in 6 starts (48.1). He gave up 17 of the 87 BB to the Mets- a full walk per 9 more than the rest of the NL.
It is very true that wins don't paint a clear picture. Check out Roy Face of the 1959 Pittsburg Pirates.He went 18-1 and pitched 93 innings and started 0 games He was their relief pitcher. Carlton was my idol growing up. I assumed 20 win season were expected of a teams ace because of him.
Why was Carlton so much better for the Phillies than the Cardinals? The Cardinals refused to let him throw his slider. Carlton had a 95 mph fastball and a big, slow-breaking curveball. “The theory in certain clubs and among certain pitching coaches was if you started throwing the slider, you would lose your curveball,” explained then Phillies pitching coach Ray Rippelmeyer. “Carlton had a very good overhand curve, but I knew the slider theory was a complete fallacy. I convinced him to throw the slider." “It was devastating,” recalled Larry Bowa, the team’s shortstop. “I’ve never seen so many right handers swing and miss at a pitch.”
Oakland A's Pitcher, Blue pronounced the letter "i" in his first name as a "long vowel" sound. A little slip up on old Willie Montanez as well i.e., a misplaced accent and sounding of the "a" in the last name. Ironic that you went with a kind of 'Spanish' or latin pronunciation of the "i" in the first instance and went total Anglo when it came to an appellation(a surname at that) with a more obvious Latin connection. Except for these "giveaways", one might almost think that you'd lived through the Carlton era.
Thank you for the compliment, it's really nice of you to say that. Plus, thanks for the advice on the pronunciation of those names. I'm still improving, and I have to make those mistakes sometime.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! The name change was very fresh at the time, and a lot of people were weird about referencing the history of the franchise. I know what to call them based on their history now.
Greatness is a comparison in time. Players have better years than others. Nevertheless, Carlton demonstrated great talent in the year he was approaching 30 wins with a not very good ball club behind him on the mound. That may be more prestigious than Koufax, who was also a great in his time.
This illustrates the shocking degree to which the once great Art of Pitching has been dismantled by the 'sabermetrics' lunatics and their disciples. Truly tragic.
I think that there is a middle ground that can be reached between the Art of Pitching and sabermetrics. Sabermetrics are meant to optimize certain things, but can be taken way beyond how they should work when a pitcher is rolling, or a reliever hasn't been effective in the postseason despite sabermetrics saying he has been effective in the regular season.
I'm glad you asked. The biggest difference I felt was that Gibson had a winning team around him. Carlton did not. Now, granted, Gibson's year prompted rule changes, so it's easily as impressive a year as Carlton's, but what I found most impressive is that Carlton did so well despite the awful team around him. Carlton was also on the '68 Cardinals, so he knows what it's like to see a dominant pitcher.
Good stuff, and Carlton was no doubt great. But was that season as dominant as Bob Gibson's 1968? That year, Gibson pitched 8+ innings in 32 of 34 starts, and allowed 0 or 1 run in 24/34. Carlton pitched 8+ in 33/41 and gave up 0 or 1 run in 21/41. So granted Carlton pitched more games, but Gibson was more dominant, as his unheard of 1.12 ERA attests. That he won "only" 24 games (24-10) is down mainly to - as mentioned in the video - the fact that W_L is a fickle thing.
The only reason I hold to the thought that Steve Carlton's 1972 was even a bit better than Bob Gibson's 1968, was the team that surrounded him. Bob Gibson had a World Series caliber team that was behind him, Steve Carlton had a cellar dweller. It's almost in spite of the team that Carlton did well. But you bring up some completely fair points, and it's amazing that we can have a debate over two of the best seasons of all time.
At 5:23, It’s Vi-da as in Vigh (rhymes with High)-da (as in duh). And at 7:16, he was on the Cleveland INDIANS…said it, it’s not a four letter word…INDIANS
Hello always been disapointing to me that his place in baseball isnt more celebrated then it is.Even hes cards are under valued in comparison to other pitchers like Nolan Ryan Sandy ,an a few others of the same era. Hes stats prove the point
He had the disadvantage of being contemporaries with other phenomenal players of his era, rather than being the best of an era. I agree that he should be celebrated more.
Don't do that. You can say Indians. That was the name of the team. I'd love to watch a sports video without PC idiocy just once. Oh, it's pronounced "Vyda." He isn't a woman with a Spanish name. That's what "Veeda" is. It's hard to take you seriously as a "baseball historian" when you don't know how to say Vida Blue's name correctly.
I'm sorry but using wins as a factor in how to measure other pitchers season against Carlton in 1972 is if nothing else unfair. Teams have been using a 5 man rotation since the 90s. Greg Maddux had a superior season to Carltons 72 in the strike shortened 1994 season. Just going off wins he managed 16 of them in only 25 starts. He followed that season with an equally dominant one in 1995. He won 4 straight Cy Young awards while routinely leading the league in starts and complete games or coming very close to it. Maddux had the best 5 year stretch of any right handed pitcher ever. he routinely led the league in BB9, SO/W, WHIP, FIP and ERA+. To not pick one of his dominant seasons to compare to any other pitchers dominant year is criminal. To not do it because of a stat like Wins makes as much sense as using WAR to determine a players value. In that 5 year span Brave or Maddux fans could pretty much assure a victory or a close game worth watching. The only other pitcher to compare Maddux's dominance over that half decade was Koufax and his peak 5 years. If he had not thrown his arm out Koufax would no doubt be considered the bet lefty ever. Even after having such a short career he is still in the conversation. The amazing thing about Maddux was that he never threw over 91mph. He was a control master who probably never be equalled. Yet he still ranks 10th all time in Ks. Maddux would undoubtedly be anyone's pick for a member of their all time great pitching rotation. Koufax being another. Bob Gibson as well. Carlton would be in the conversation for one of the final 2 spots with Ryan, Keefe, Marichal, Clemens, Sutton and Spahn. I am truly sorry about anyone that wasn't around or a baseball fan for Maddux's peak. Looking at his stats will fill your eyes with amazement. The fact he put those up those numbers right smack in the middle of the steroid era. He is one of the very few players of that time who doesn't have PED questions surrounding his career. Even if they were tolerated I doubt he was even tempted. He was an artist when he pitched. Plus he was known as the "professor" because of how he studied batters and could remember each one's achille's heel pitch and could put that pitch right into the sweet spot every time. Sorry about the novel but your video really got me going for your dismissal of all of the greats since the 5 man rotation became the norm. Kershaw had a similar 2 years to Maddux's 94-95 in 2013 and 2014. Pedro's 99 and 2000 are just as good as well. Plus he got lots of K's so his WAR was very high. I will take the career year of each of the pitchers I mentioned over Carlton's 1972.
And you can take those years over Carlton's 1972. At 7:25 I do mention how wins are a misleading statistic. Just because I did not mention other pitchers and their great seasons (or stretch of seasons) does not mean that I am dismissing or downplaying their impressiveness or superiority. I had been using Carlton's season and the statistics he accumulated as a way to see if anyone else had put together a season like he did. Maddux did have a season where he won 20 games on a bad Chicago team, but that only accounted for 25% of the teams total wins. By rate stats, it's comparable to Carlton's. Just not exactly the same. I appreciate the novel, it was a good morning read.
@@BaseballAF Good answer. I find it interesting that he states that wins are a misleading statistic but he totally disregards innings pitched. I guess pitching 150 more innings than pitchers with similar stats for teams that were much better offensively is misleading too.
You compile a video over ten minutes long on Carlton and then butcher the name of one of his contemporaries. “Vida Blue” is pronounced “Vy-da,” not like the Spanish “vida.” SMH.
Steve Carlton appeared in 44 games and pitched 30 complete games by himself. There were about than many in all of baseball last year. an untouchable record
I agree with that sentiment exactly, it was a different time that I wish I saw in person.
Juan Marichal:
1968: completed 30 out of 38 starts, going 26-9 with an ERA of .243
1969: completed 27 out of 36 starts, going 21-11 with ERA of 2.10
Sandy Koufax:
1965: completed 27 out of 41 starts, going 26-8 with ERA of 2.04
1966: completed 27 out of 41 starts, going 27-9 with ERA of 1.73
Bob Gibson:
1968: completed 28 out of 34 starts, going 22-9 with ERA of 1.12
1969: completed 28 out of 35 starts, going 20-13 with ERA of 2.18
@@ron88303 ^^man these are some fine pitchers !!
Best pitcher in my lifetime
I wish I had the chance to see him pitch in his prime
thanks for doing this. Carlton was my hero growing up.
You're welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed it
Me too! Super Steve!!!!
Thanks for mentioning Perry’s AL CYA in ‘72, it seems like a forgotten unbelievable year.
It's incredible as it was, it just happened to be the exact same time Carlton had his best season too.
@@BaseballAF incredibly weird timing too
Lefty was One of my All Time Favorites and the All time Strike Out King in the NL with 4000 K's****
I wish I could have seen him play, but I get to vicariously live through his stats
Not impressed
Bring it on , haters
@@BaseballAFHe was something else. When I was a kid my folks took a couple of my mom’s work friends (who were both British) with us to a Phillies game in 1984. Carlton was pitching. Baseball baffled Steve & Carolyn (my mom’s British friends) but we did our best to explain the rules. One of my most vivid memories of that afternoon was my Dad explaining how pitchers are pretty much always the worst hitters on their teams and that’s why they bat last. A couple batters later Lefty comes up to the plate & launches one into the bleachers with the bases loaded.
Steve & Carolyn gave up on trying to understand baseball after that….
@grahamstrouse1165 that's an amazing story! It fully encapsulates what baseball is haha
If Carlton had been playing with a good team that year pitching as he was, the question is not would he have won 30 games. The question is how far over 30 he would have been and possibly have set a modern-era major league record.
Doing some quick math, he could have went 37-3 with a team that scored 4 runs per game. That's utterly ridiculous and it would be even more impressive than his season already was.
I was 15 in 1972 and an avid Phillies fan. My father would take me to a few games that year but only when Carlton was scheduled. I remember going to a game in mid August when he won his 15th in a row 9-4 against the Reds. It was the last game of the 3 game series where the Phils lost the first 2 game scoring a total of 2 runs, then Carlton pitches the 3rd game and they score 9 for him. He lost his next start against the Braves and knuckleballer Phil Niekro 2-1 in eleven innings. Both Niekro and Carlton went the distance with Carlton having 10 Ks. Both pitchers had over 160 pitches each.
I remember a game against the Giants early in the season at Candlestick Park when Carlton gave up a single to Chris Spier to open the game (Spier was a notorious Carlton killer his whole career) and then Carlton retired the next 27 Giants with 14 Ks. It was the closest Carlton ever came to a no hitter (actually closest to a perfect game). Carlton had a wicked curve ball that year (almost like Koufax’s) but then gave it up for the slider which was his out pitch the remainder of his career.
I'm always very happy to read stories of Carlton's career from people who have seen him in person.
One of the greatest lefthanders of all time !
Agreed!
Him and Seaver had some great pitching duels during their careers
The best year a pitcher ever had. The team won 53 games and Steve won 27 of them with a 27 and 10 record.
This is probably one of the times where you can definitely say a pitcher carried his team
Thanks for that great video! I was a 15 y/o that year and I remember that season so vividly! Despite the Phillies having one of the worst teams in the league they KNEW they were going to win the day that Carlton was pitching! He was such a great competitor and his slider made superstar hitters look helpless!
Thanks for watching! I wish I had the chance to see him pitch in person.
Steve Carlton was good AF
One of the best AF
Being a Phillies fan in the 70s was painful but we never missed watching a game when Steve was pitching. Still my all-time fave.
You put a lot of effort into this video. Comprehensive and interesting all the way through. Thank you
Thank you for the kind words! I'm glad that my effort is being rewarded by your enjoyment
Wow! I knew he had a great year but I didn't know how dominant he was. Good research! I am still mad at the Cardinals for letting him get away back then! That damn Augie Busch-cheap old geezer of an owner!
Thank you! And who knows, if he doesn't leave the Cardinals, maybe his year isn't that impressive 🤔
Being a Phillies fan, I for once appreciate old Augie Busch & say thanks
@@christopherengel7436 I must say I rooted for Carlton while he pitched for the Phillies. He was that good. He was beyond amazing when he was with the Phillies.
@@BaseballAF good point
Here in Philadelphia we were not so sure of this trade because Rick Wise pitched a no hitter and hit 2 home runs.
That's why this trade was only viewed as 'bad' in hindsight. At the time they were peers of each other, but who was to know what Carlton would do in 1972?
It was a magical year for us Phillies fans even though we finished last. We knew that every fourth game, we were as good as any team in baseball. I remember early in the season against the San Francisco Giants at the old Candlestick Park, Carlton gave up a single to his thorn-in-his-side nemesis shortstop Chris Spier. He proceeded to pitch a perfect game from that point on, 27 up, 27 down.
I went to Veterans Stadium at least a half dozen times that season, but only when Carlton was scheduled to pitch. I was there behind the plate (albeit in the nosebleed 700 section) for his 20th win (which was also his 15th win in a row).
The following 1973 season, he went 13-20, but us Carlton fans never lost hope with him, and he righted his ship in 1974 and then won 3 more CY Young awards over the next 8 years.
Carlton was a decent batter as well. Almost on par with the Phillies team (7,8,9 slot) during those years - Carlton has a .200+ lifetime avg, got 23 basehits as a pitcher in '72. Hit .291 one season while playing as a pitcher and was a pinch hitter in 1968 and as late as 1984.
I was looking into it, now that you mention it, and its wild that he's as good as some of the bottom of the lineup bats. Another reason why his year was as good as it was.
Yeah he had to win at least one, probably two games that '72 season with his bat as I recall.
I was a twelve year old Phillies fan in '72 and I remember being glued to the radio the night Lefty was attempting to win his 17th straight game which was against Phil Niekro and the Atlanta Braves. I was hanging on every pitch and was bummed-out when Carlton pitched great but lost a 2-1 heartbreaker. The Phils were a woeful bunch in those days so the only thing to look forward to was when Steve was on the mound. He might've won 35 if he had a good team around him.
I would have loved to have been alive during this season. Fun fact, if the Phillies would have scored 4 runs in every one of his starts, he would have had 33 wins on the year, so your guess is pretty solid.
Sandy Koufax's record mentioned at 8:10 in this video was with the LA Dodgers who had a winning season record of 95-67. Steve Carlton's record with the Phillies was arguably a more significant accomplisment because of the Phillies losing season record. That comparison should have been stated.
Probably should have been
Not really. The key stat to differentiate between pitchers is ERA. 1972 was Carlton's lowest ERA year at 1.97. His next lowest was 2.17 in 1969.
Koufax ERAs (1963-66): 1.88, 1.74, 2.04, 1.73
Gibson: 1.12 in 1968, 2.18 in 1969
Marichal: 2.10 in 1969, 2.13 in 1965
Pedro Martinez: 1.74 in 2000, 1.90 in 1997
Kershaw: 1.69 in 2016, 1.77 in 2014, 1.83 in 2013
Best year by a lefty ever...in either league and that includes Koufax, my hero. Incredible number of complete games in addition to all the other NL leading or near leading stats for a starting pitcher. Cripes, he was involved in > 60% of his team's total wins?! That's partially because his squad was so woeful. What a teammate, what a year!
Its unbelievable! Something we probably won't see again for a very long time, if ever again
Kershaw's 2014 was better than Carlton's 1972. So was Koufax in1963, 65 and 66. Koufax is the best southpaw of all time. Randy Johnson is probably second. Spahn, Carlton and Glavine in any orser would round out the top 5. David Price, Sabathia and Chris Sale were well on their way for an argument to join that club. Seems like they put too much stress on their arms the last couple of years before they hit free agency to set themselves up for a mega contract that they started racking up injuries and they couldn't pitch to that level anymore after getting those contracts. Sabathia being the only one of the 3 to stay at that level for a couple of years. Price especially dropped off a cliff from day 1 after signing his deal. Thats why teams like the Yankees need to stop giving those huge decade long deals to players like Cole. I think Scherzer was the only pitcher since Maddux to have earned every penny of their megadeal. To think Scherzer lingered on the open market for so long when he first hit FA. If the Nationals hadn't bailed out Borias yet again then Scherzer wouldn't have gotten half of his deal. I remember the talking heads saying anyone that gave him a big contract would regret it. Nobody seemed to believe he would continue to pitch at his high level. Now he is making $40+ million per year and still going strong.
@@robertschumann7737 everything you said is dead on except for your first sentence and I'll explain why. By stating that Kershaw's year was better you are implying one of two things. First, that Kershaw would lose none of his effectiveness in pitching an additional 150 innings. If you do believe that then so be it, but nothing about Kershaw suggests he would have that type of stamina or effectiveness in pitching what would amount to an additional 17 complete games.. That's nothing against Kershaw. As we both know, pitchers have not been conditioned to pitch over 250 innings for decades, let alone 300 although Kershaw did top over 220 a few times. Secondly, you would have to be implying that Carlton gets no "extra credit" over Kershaw for sustaining that type of excellence for 346 innings in contrast to Kershaw's 198. Now, we don't know what Kershaw COULD have done but we do know what Carlton DID do. In essence, I'll just use one basic stat and the logic I follow. A logic that must be followed for all the stats (excluding counting or accumulating stats like wins and K's, etc.) It's exceedingly easier to sustain a low ERA when the innings you pitch are lower, with fewer chances to fail. In this case 150 less chances. That's the whole essence of ERA and the root of it's praise. It's like Tom Seaver maintaining an ERA under 3 for a 20 year career versus someone with the same ERA over 12 years. Same principle. So Kershaw in 2014 has a quarter of a run better ERA than Carton in 150 less innings. I know there is more to this than ERA but that's the basis of my argument, that having those stats close or even a little better than Carlton lose their sting when the amount of innings pitched is is so much less. Thanks for reading.
His out pitch was the hard slider, perhaps the most detrimental pitch to a hurlers elbow, and yet Carlton didn't go on the DL until his 19th season. A genetic marvel.
It's amazing how we have so many marvels of that age of pitching, like Ryan and Carlton. We get so many interesting seasons from them defying the odds.
He used to work with a bucket of rice to strenghten his arm muscles.
These are the kind of videos I like to watch. 👍
I'm glad you enjoy these, and I hope to make more at least as good as this in the future!
I can’t resist commenting on Veeda Blue, nonetheless an excellent and entertaining video.
I know, half the comments are that haha, but I appreciate it regardless. If his name comes up again, I'm 100% getting it right
@@BaseballAF This really was a terrific video!
My favorite pitcher as a kid and adult
Oh I wish I had the chance to see him pitch in person
Steve Carlton slider ball would've disappeared at the baseball 🍽
Duck quacks hysterical lol
I know 😊
Awesome! Thank you!
You're welcome!
It's an amazing year no matter how you slice it. However, I read that most of the Phillies' players had far better statistics when Carlton was pitching vs another Phillies' starter. Carlton's presence turned bad players into much better players because of their belief that they had a chance only because Carlton was on the mound. I would be curious to see the WAR of the players when playing in a Carlton start vs other Phillie pitchers.
I don't think I can figure WAR per players in Carlton's starts, but the team's batting average, on base and slugging are much higher in Carlton's starts compared to the rest of the time, so what you're saying makes a lot of sense
Maybe true of that season, but by and large he got terrible support. It almost looked like Carlton wanted to only get 1 run of support so he could only win with a shut out, or hitters just said "Drinks on me tonight. Carlton's pitching tomorrow so the team won't need us."
gotta be careful with that, some eras they would try to starter-match and 1 vs. 1 would be common leading to poor run support
Strike shortened season too. He may have won 30, but it wasn't to be.
Strike shortened year. Steve won about half of the Phillies games that year. Easily would have won 30 with a mediocre team.
If Steve Carlton would of had just a below average team backing him up, he would have won 32 games.
Possibly more, it's one of the most amazing seasons I've looked back on
No doubt!
Another amazing stat is from the start of the season on April 15 to May 15,the team was 15-10.But they had the core of their successful mid 70s and 80 WS champion team in place beginning their careers.
Not saying it was a good trade, but Rick Wise had a nice major-league career. As a trade, this does not approach Amos Otis for Joe Foy, Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi, Tom Seaver for a bag of baseballs...you know, the Mets!
As a Met fan, I am constantly reminded of those things haha. You're right, Wise was far from bad, he just wasn't a Hall of Fame caliber pitcher
@@BaseballAF Lets go Mets! (Enjoy it while we can until the next disaster) ;-p
And yes, Wise was no Carlton, but to play in the majors just one day....
P.S. "Youth is wasted on the young" - You only know it was "history" years later. As a boy, I sadly do not remember to number of times my dad came home and said "Good game tonight, Seaver and Carlton, let's go." (And Seaver usually won!)
I am fully riding the joy that I get from the Mets right now, and I wanted that dream too. Seaver is another amazing pitcher that I'd like to do something on (that hasn't already been done)
He had one of the greatest seasons...ever
Agreed!
Hard to top Gibson’s ‘67 season, but Carlton was sick in ‘72. And they were teammates! For the Cardinals, trading away Carlton was the flip side of the Lou Brock trade.
I wish they were good at the same time on the same team, the Cardinals could have been unbelievable.
Do you mean Gibson’s ‘68 season?
@@LampwicksCigar prolly. Insanely, ridiculously, absurdly, incomparably dominant. Even so, going 27-3 for a team that won 60 games is at least arguably as dominant, just by different measures.
Love your content subscribed today as number 660 glad to be here!
Nice! Looking forward to providing more for you to enjoy!
I mentioned this more than 30 years ago when i played minor league ball: Carlton's 1972 season was the greatest ever for any pitcher considering the situation: Winning 27 games (10 losses) on a team that had 59 measly wins (97 losses). Surely, he would have won more than 30 games on even a mediocre team.
He would have had an even more impressive year with a decent team behind him.
LOOOOVE this content
Thanks so much! I will keep up this content
Cool vid my father pitched in the Carolina league with lefty
Cool stuff! I can imagine how intense Carlton was
Fun Fact: Kid Gleason, listed #23 on the WAR list, was the manager of the 1919 Black Sox. You also mentioned "Irish" Mike Ryan. He served as a coach for the Phillies for more than a decade and was on staff for their 1980, 1983, and 1993 Pennants.
I like these little bits of trivia, I never connected that Kid Gleason was on that team.
Its unreal... in 1972, 2 players carried their team like no other 2 players ever did. Dick Allen, and Carlton.......
There's definitely a reason why these seasons do not happen often, considering the incredible seasons each of them had.
One of the most enjoyable seasons ever, despite their dead-last finish. Happened to be the first year I started watching the Phils. Seemed to be an even trade when Philly got Carlton from St. Louis for right hander Rick Wise. Towards the end of the season a fan ran out on the field, up to Steve at the mound and shook his hand on behalf of all the fans. Philly sports were in a very sorry state at that time.
It's interesting that everyone has said it was an even trade at the time, and yet their careers ended up being so different.
At 10:06, the surname of Willie Montanez is pronounced
Mon-ten-yez
‘72 Mets owned him … 2-4 3.54 ERA and 1.2 WHIP (0.993 season) in 6 starts (48.1). He gave up 17 of the 87 BB to the Mets- a full walk per 9 more than the rest of the NL.
As a Met fan, I loved finding that out.
It is very true that wins don't paint a clear picture. Check out Roy Face of the 1959 Pittsburg Pirates.He went 18-1 and pitched 93 innings and started 0 games He was their relief pitcher. Carlton was my idol growing up. I assumed 20 win season were expected of a teams ace because of him.
It also reminds me of reliever Phil Regan, and how he got the nickname of "the vulture" because getting credit for so many late game wins
MLB The Show needs his 1972 card in Diamond Dynasty
Why was Carlton so much better for the Phillies than the Cardinals? The Cardinals refused to let him throw his slider. Carlton had a 95 mph fastball and a big, slow-breaking curveball. “The theory in certain clubs and among certain pitching coaches was if you started throwing the slider, you would lose your curveball,” explained then Phillies pitching coach Ray Rippelmeyer. “Carlton had a very good overhand curve, but I knew the slider theory was a complete fallacy. I convinced him to throw the slider."
“It was devastating,” recalled Larry Bowa, the team’s shortstop. “I’ve never seen so many right handers swing and miss at a pitch.”
What great insight into how Carlton became the dominant pitcher he was.
You failed to give a mention of the incredible 1978 season of Ron Guidry: 25-3, 1.74 Era, 246 strike outs!
This was the best pitching season ever. By anyone.
I do think Koufax has a say in that, but all kidding aside, it is one of the best ever, I agree.
VIE-dah Blue and Willie Mon-tan-YEZ. Otherwise, good video.
Thank you, both for the compliment and the pronunciation.
Oakland A's Pitcher, Blue pronounced the letter "i" in his first name as a "long vowel" sound.
A little slip up on old Willie Montanez as well i.e., a misplaced accent and sounding of the "a" in the last name. Ironic that you went with a kind of 'Spanish' or latin pronunciation of the "i" in the first instance and went total Anglo when it came to an appellation(a surname at that) with a more obvious Latin connection.
Except for these "giveaways", one might almost think that you'd lived through the Carlton era.
Thank you for the compliment, it's really nice of you to say that. Plus, thanks for the advice on the pronunciation of those names. I'm still improving, and I have to make those mistakes sometime.
Perry cleveland indians cancel culture cant take the past away also great vdeo thanks
It was supposed to be a joke, but it doesn't matter. Thanks for enjoying the video though!
@@BaseballAF I figured had to be a joke
you got to add in the games that carlton started but somebody got the win. THEN what % of phillies' win did carlton have a hand in?
He only would have gotten a decision in 2 more of the wins, which is 29/59 total, or 49.15%, nearly half
Interesting video. I really enjoyed it. It's okay to call them the Indians cuz that's what they were back when Gaylord Perry pitched for them. :-)
I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
The name change was very fresh at the time, and a lot of people were weird about referencing the history of the franchise. I know what to call them based on their history now.
Greatness is a comparison in time. Players have better years than others. Nevertheless, Carlton demonstrated great talent in the year he was approaching 30 wins with a not very good ball club behind him on the mound. That may be more prestigious than Koufax, who was also a great in his time.
In relation to what he was given, I'd say this season is one of the greatest ever. Very well put.
Imagine him being on an equally good offensive team,, possible record of 35-2
If he had a team that scored anything over 4 Runs per Game, he could have had a record of 38-3, which would have been preposterous
Or even a decent team. Remember that he went 27-10 on a team that finished 59-97.
This illustrates the shocking degree to which the once great Art of Pitching has been dismantled by the 'sabermetrics' lunatics and their disciples. Truly tragic.
I think that there is a middle ground that can be reached between the Art of Pitching and sabermetrics. Sabermetrics are meant to optimize certain things, but can be taken way beyond how they should work when a pitcher is rolling, or a reliever hasn't been effective in the postseason despite sabermetrics saying he has been effective in the regular season.
As a kid in the 70's I could never understand why my Dad always took me to Phillies games when Carlton pitched. Oh to be young and ignorant.
I would do so much to be able to travel back in time to watch some of the great pitchers work their craft.
Bob Gibson’s big year?
I'm glad you asked. The biggest difference I felt was that Gibson had a winning team around him. Carlton did not. Now, granted, Gibson's year prompted rule changes, so it's easily as impressive a year as Carlton's, but what I found most impressive is that Carlton did so well despite the awful team around him. Carlton was also on the '68 Cardinals, so he knows what it's like to see a dominant pitcher.
Good stuff, and Carlton was no doubt great. But was that season as dominant as Bob Gibson's 1968? That year, Gibson pitched 8+ innings in 32 of 34 starts, and allowed 0 or 1 run in 24/34. Carlton pitched 8+ in 33/41 and gave up 0 or 1 run in 21/41. So granted Carlton pitched more games, but Gibson was more dominant, as his unheard of 1.12 ERA attests. That he won "only" 24 games (24-10) is down mainly to - as mentioned in the video - the fact that W_L is a fickle thing.
The only reason I hold to the thought that Steve Carlton's 1972 was even a bit better than Bob Gibson's 1968, was the team that surrounded him. Bob Gibson had a World Series caliber team that was behind him, Steve Carlton had a cellar dweller. It's almost in spite of the team that Carlton did well. But you bring up some completely fair points, and it's amazing that we can have a debate over two of the best seasons of all time.
@@BaseballAF Thanks for your answer. Carlton was also amazing for winning 4 Cy Youngs over an 11 year span.
Grew up watching Lefty Carlton. $10,000 well spent right? Wise was a nice pitcher but well we either saw them video or were there so yeah good trade.
I'm glad the trade happened, it allowed me to make this video.
I was 11 years old in 72 that Phillies team was horrible. Wise was a ok pitcher. Carlton was unbelievable that year
Rick Wise did throw a no-hitter in 1971.
And he was never a bad pitcher, just not to the level of Carlton.
At 5:23, It’s Vi-da as in
Vigh (rhymes with High)-da (as in duh).
And at 7:16, he was on the Cleveland INDIANS…said it, it’s not a four letter word…INDIANS
The Cardinals had Bob Gibson & Steve Carlton. Big mistake Redbirds.
Its amazing to think they were on the same team for as many years as they were.
It's Randy Lerch not Barry
Randy is a different player than Barry. They did both play for the Phillies, just not at the same time.
Didn’t Blulevyn have a nutty year in 1973?
It was a pretty good year! He still was the victim in his teams losses 17 times out of 37 decisions, although 9 shutouts is super impressive
Dude could hit too.
Another part of his legacy
It was Vida not Veeda. VieDa
Hello always been disapointing to me that his place in baseball isnt more celebrated then it is.Even hes cards are under valued in comparison to other pitchers like Nolan Ryan Sandy ,an a few others of the same era. Hes stats prove the point
He had the disadvantage of being contemporaries with other phenomenal players of his era, rather than being the best of an era. I agree that he should be celebrated more.
I was hoping for some video of Carlton making good hitters look foolish.
At the time, I wasn't able to find footage of him specifically from 1972. There probably is some video now, but I couldn't find it then.
I’d like to see somebody break out like that these days.
It would be amazing to watch. We almost had that in Jacob deGrom in 2021 before he got hurt
That picture of him looks like he just realized the fart he let through wasn't safe and now there's a turd in his pants.
Maybe that's what helped him pitch better?
The name is pronounced
Vi-da Blue, NOT Ve-da Blue
Thank you, I now know how to pronounce his name.
Carlton was a great pitcher, some years, but at least one of his Cy Young awards was a travesty.
I'll agree with you for his 1982 Cy Young, he just won a lot of games that year and was only a tad above average.
@@BaseballAF I was actually thinking of 1977, John Candelaria should have won
I think I felt the same about 1982, I just don't remember who I thought should have won. That slider...
Don't do that. You can say Indians. That was the name of the team. I'd love to watch a sports video without PC idiocy just once.
Oh, it's pronounced "Vyda." He isn't a woman with a Spanish name. That's what "Veeda" is.
It's hard to take you seriously as a "baseball historian" when you don't know how to say Vida Blue's name correctly.
Vida who?
Should have mentioned only steroids allegations are keeping Clemens out of the Hall of Fame.
Every video is a work in progress, no video is going to be perfect. Check back in a year or so, when I've had more time as a "baseball historian" 😀
Also, just FYI, Montanez is pronounced "Mahn-tah-NEZ"
@@rhark25 I don't speak Spanish, but I've heard it pronounced Mahn-tahn-YEZ.
Carlton was fantastic, but . . . Cheater Clemens doesn’t count. And Bob Gibson’s 1968 season was better in most metrics.
you're 100% right about Gibsons season though
Cleveland Indians, God dammit.
I think you missed the joke
I'm sorry but using wins as a factor in how to measure other pitchers season against Carlton in 1972 is if nothing else unfair. Teams have been using a 5 man rotation since the 90s. Greg Maddux had a superior season to Carltons 72 in the strike shortened 1994 season. Just going off wins he managed 16 of them in only 25 starts. He followed that season with an equally dominant one in 1995. He won 4 straight Cy Young awards while routinely leading the league in starts and complete games or coming very close to it. Maddux had the best 5 year stretch of any right handed pitcher ever. he routinely led the league in BB9, SO/W, WHIP, FIP and ERA+. To not pick one of his dominant seasons to compare to any other pitchers dominant year is criminal. To not do it because of a stat like Wins makes as much sense as using WAR to determine a players value. In that 5 year span Brave or Maddux fans could pretty much assure a victory or a close game worth watching. The only other pitcher to compare Maddux's dominance over that half decade was Koufax and his peak 5 years. If he had not thrown his arm out Koufax would no doubt be considered the bet lefty ever. Even after having such a short career he is still in the conversation. The amazing thing about Maddux was that he never threw over 91mph. He was a control master who probably never be equalled. Yet he still ranks 10th all time in Ks. Maddux would undoubtedly be anyone's pick for a member of their all time great pitching rotation. Koufax being another. Bob Gibson as well. Carlton would be in the conversation for one of the final 2 spots with Ryan, Keefe, Marichal, Clemens, Sutton and Spahn. I am truly sorry about anyone that wasn't around or a baseball fan for Maddux's peak. Looking at his stats will fill your eyes with amazement. The fact he put those up those numbers right smack in the middle of the steroid era. He is one of the very few players of that time who doesn't have PED questions surrounding his career. Even if they were tolerated I doubt he was even tempted. He was an artist when he pitched. Plus he was known as the "professor" because of how he studied batters and could remember each one's achille's heel pitch and could put that pitch right into the sweet spot every time. Sorry about the novel but your video really got me going for your dismissal of all of the greats since the 5 man rotation became the norm. Kershaw had a similar 2 years to Maddux's 94-95 in 2013 and 2014. Pedro's 99 and 2000 are just as good as well. Plus he got lots of K's so his WAR was very high. I will take the career year of each of the pitchers I mentioned over Carlton's 1972.
Just wondering, what was the worst team Maddox ever played for?
And you can take those years over Carlton's 1972. At 7:25 I do mention how wins are a misleading statistic. Just because I did not mention other pitchers and their great seasons (or stretch of seasons) does not mean that I am dismissing or downplaying their impressiveness or superiority. I had been using Carlton's season and the statistics he accumulated as a way to see if anyone else had put together a season like he did. Maddux did have a season where he won 20 games on a bad Chicago team, but that only accounted for 25% of the teams total wins. By rate stats, it's comparable to Carlton's. Just not exactly the same. I appreciate the novel, it was a good morning read.
@@BaseballAF Good answer. I find it interesting that he states that wins are a misleading statistic but he totally disregards innings pitched. I guess pitching 150 more innings than pitchers with similar stats for teams that were much better offensively is misleading too.
You compile a video over ten minutes long on Carlton and then butcher the name of one of his contemporaries. “Vida Blue” is pronounced “Vy-da,” not like the Spanish “vida.” SMH.
I know now how to say it, it's a mistake I won't make in the future