Thanks for the discussion. I would have liked it if you spent a segment discussing changes needed for the core rules and the killzones. (Flying, the lvl 2 vantage on Volkus, the interaction of guard with counteract in Gallowdark, etc)
In my opinion I would love the following to happen tonthe core game. -I think fly needs to be revereted to old edition. Then just add that fly moves do not interact with univerlas equipment or tokens. Another fix is ao that models cannot start a fly while under a vantage. -Vantage lvl 2 should be removed from cometative play. -Guard and spells should become unique actions so that you can only perform them once per turning point. - **parkour** for terrain under 2 inches in hight you may combine a move and a dash whild climbing. Anything over 2 inches you cannot add your dashes to climb. -more firesteps need to be added to vulkus so that Ratlings can see over steong hold vantage walls.
You guys should do the reverse video where you take the bottom teams and suggest ideas to buff them. I think Novitiates should lose some faith points. Maybe only one other operative can generate them besides the ones you get for half the team. That way you have several options but must choose just one. Legionaries and WC need some of the CP+1 rules that Nemesis Claw have. Limit the extra CP from Icon to 2 per game (or some sort of roll, 4+). Spells only once per TP. P1 reduction should be elinmated or CP+1. The idea of Hierotek with the kill op is interesting. I wonder how many games that would have changed?
Enjoy the show guys keep doing what you're doing! I would like to hear what people actually think regarding buffs to give to kasrkin and breachers etc besides, "buy inquisition models they are stronger."
The only thing GW could do is buff thier ploys, equipment or give them more operatives. I doubt the could improve the units becuase it would just make inquisition better. Once inquisition got introduced thise teams got much harder to ballance. The team also may get nothing bc is P1 changes at all on elietes, kasrkin are suddenly MUCH better. Personally Id like combat knives to be buffed to 4 attacks. Engage from cover to be auto retain 1 save. I also dislike give no ground. I think that should be buffed. If this doesn't make the team better id give them snother operative.
@Squad-Games-Entertainment thanks for getting back to me! fair enough, I hope they get some rework to the ploys, equipment or faction rules. They don't synergise internally well or feel impactful often. I don't know if the P1 reduction changes will help much by themselves. theres so much heavy terrain on volkus and itd they can't leverage the shooting that much. I agree combat knives getting buffed is probably the best answer. For Cadia!
As a Warp Coven player, to nerf them I would: Make boons permanent at list creation. Change the -1AP ploy into a reduce damage by 1 (or reduce crit damage by 1). Change all bolters from Piercing1 to different Modifier such as Severe.
I think giving all (non-Phobos) Marines 14 Wounds was a big mistake. It makes Angels of Death worse, it makes Warpcoven and their Rubrics too good, and now we're seeing balancing problems with Legionary and Death Guard as well. Take them back to 12W and many of these problems are fixed.
If the answer to balance is “oh, I don’t know, maybe -1 operative” that’s worse than GW balancing. The answer is make the teams at the bottom and middle better. Fix the stat lines, fix the abilities.
I think 'oh, I don't know maybe X' is GW balancing ! I think -1 operative is inevitable as a start as it is so easy to implement and doesn't invalidate the card packs
Damage reduction globally changed to damage dice above 3 instead of 3 and above. But make it more consistent? Get rid of ignoring piercing. Should only ever exist as a tacploy or once per battle equipment.
yall are overfocusing on nerfing things to make the game what it used to be when I feel GW has been very clear that the new teams are going to be balanced around the new teams. Plus defaulting to nerfing things instead of buffing the teams that are falling behind it and needing buffs feels egregious. Give guard 20 models, give striking skorpions 3+ saves, pathfinder drones cound as half cost, all buffs I'd fully support with the current state of the game.
None of the new teams, save maybe Plague Marines, are anywhere close to capable of scrapping with the heavyweight meta that Warpcoven, Legionary, Inquisition, and Hierotek helped create. GW's set a very clear bar with the new releases, and these key legacy teams are WAY out of those bounds.
the newest of new teams: aquilons and vespids - were nowhere near the power level of the problematic teams at the start of the edition. I don't know what they were balancing around lol
I'm pretty much over the discussion of balance, we get it, we've been hearing about it since day 1. Tired of hearing how you wish the game would be, would rather see you guys try and play it as it is, experiment on how to flex low tier teams and different play styles. Would make for much more interesting content.
Pointless. The Q4 data-slate should be coming out in a few weeks and WCW just happened. People have already tried and played "as is," extensively. There is no "flex low tier teams and different play styles," to solve the problem. There's two different games going on right now - a Heavyweights game defined by who can hang with Warpcoven/Legionary/PlagueMarines/Necrons and a game for everybody else outside that weight class. If you cross teams from one weight-class into the other the game implodes. All I want for Christmas is a good data slate.
I understand that. Its hard to really make anything work against the top teams right now. I took death Korps to the world championship to do just that, expose any secrets that might be there. To show how to beat marines with a bottom tier team. And the answer is if both players are similar skill level its unfortunantly unwinable at that lvl of play. With 3 obj and multiple other variations, competatively there is only one way to win the game at the moment. The game feels very stagnant and that why we talk about ballance. The game has to change and rebalance BC the game is in a stagnant straight forward state atm. We will hold off on balance talks in the future until we get the data slate I hear you
The muffin tip is actuallly clutch. Thanks dude
Thanks for the discussion. I would have liked it if you spent a segment discussing changes needed for the core rules and the killzones. (Flying, the lvl 2 vantage on Volkus, the interaction of guard with counteract in Gallowdark, etc)
In my opinion I would love the following to happen tonthe core game.
-I think fly needs to be revereted to old edition. Then just add that fly moves do not interact with univerlas equipment or tokens.
Another fix is ao that models cannot start a fly while under a vantage.
-Vantage lvl 2 should be removed from cometative play.
-Guard and spells should become unique actions so that you can only perform them once per turning point.
- **parkour** for terrain under 2 inches in hight you may combine a move and a dash whild climbing. Anything over 2 inches you cannot add your dashes to climb.
-more firesteps need to be added to vulkus so that Ratlings can see over steong hold vantage walls.
@Squad-Games-Entertainment maybe Ratlings in a balance dataslate get crates as an equipment option? 🤔😅
You guys should do the reverse video where you take the bottom teams and suggest ideas to buff them.
I think Novitiates should lose some faith points. Maybe only one other operative can generate them besides the ones you get for half the team. That way you have several options but must choose just one. Legionaries and WC need some of the CP+1 rules that Nemesis Claw have. Limit the extra CP from Icon to 2 per game (or some sort of roll, 4+). Spells only once per TP. P1 reduction should be elinmated or CP+1.
The idea of Hierotek with the kill op is interesting. I wonder how many games that would have changed?
Nice video!
Plague Marines don't have any piercing reduction.
They sure feel like it.....
Enjoy the show guys keep doing what you're doing!
I would like to hear what people actually think regarding buffs to give to kasrkin and breachers etc besides, "buy inquisition models they are stronger."
The only thing GW could do is buff thier ploys, equipment or give them more operatives. I doubt the could improve the units becuase it would just make inquisition better.
Once inquisition got introduced thise teams got much harder to ballance.
The team also may get nothing bc is P1 changes at all on elietes, kasrkin are suddenly MUCH better.
Personally Id like combat knives to be buffed to 4 attacks.
Engage from cover to be auto retain 1 save.
I also dislike give no ground. I think that should be buffed.
If this doesn't make the team better id give them snother operative.
@Squad-Games-Entertainment thanks for getting back to me! fair enough, I hope they get some rework to the ploys, equipment or faction rules. They don't synergise internally well or feel impactful often.
I don't know if the P1 reduction changes will help much by themselves. theres so much heavy terrain on volkus and itd they can't leverage the shooting that much.
I agree combat knives getting buffed is probably the best answer.
For Cadia!
Justice for Costco Muffins!
all I hope for is that my favorite teams won't be either broken good or broken bad. I want to have competitive meme armies back in my life
As a Warp Coven player, to nerf them I would:
Make boons permanent at list creation.
Change the -1AP ploy into a reduce damage by 1 (or reduce crit damage by 1).
Change all bolters from Piercing1 to different Modifier such as Severe.
I think giving all (non-Phobos) Marines 14 Wounds was a big mistake.
It makes Angels of Death worse, it makes Warpcoven and their Rubrics too good, and now we're seeing balancing problems with Legionary and Death Guard as well. Take them back to 12W and many of these problems are fixed.
If the answer to balance is “oh, I don’t know, maybe -1 operative” that’s worse than GW balancing. The answer is make the teams at the bottom and middle better. Fix the stat lines, fix the abilities.
I think 'oh, I don't know maybe X' is GW balancing !
I think -1 operative is inevitable as a start as it is so easy to implement and doesn't invalidate the card packs
-1 operative is literally a meme because that's what GW was doing for most of the prior edition.
Damage reduction globally changed to damage dice above 3 instead of 3 and above. But make it more consistent?
Get rid of ignoring piercing. Should only ever exist as a tacploy or once per battle equipment.
Warpcoven (2 sourcerers Max).
where are my Scouts?
Take 1 wound off all astartes.
The real fix is to bin approved ops 24
Well, I told you Pathfinders suck.
yall are overfocusing on nerfing things to make the game what it used to be when I feel GW has been very clear that the new teams are going to be balanced around the new teams. Plus defaulting to nerfing things instead of buffing the teams that are falling behind it and needing buffs feels egregious.
Give guard 20 models, give striking skorpions 3+ saves, pathfinder drones cound as half cost, all buffs I'd fully support with the current state of the game.
None of the new teams, save maybe Plague Marines, are anywhere close to capable of scrapping with the heavyweight meta that Warpcoven, Legionary, Inquisition, and Hierotek helped create.
GW's set a very clear bar with the new releases, and these key legacy teams are WAY out of those bounds.
you are speaking sense to me! i like this
the newest of new teams: aquilons and vespids - were nowhere near the power level of the problematic teams at the start of the edition. I don't know what they were balancing around lol
I'm pretty much over the discussion of balance, we get it, we've been hearing about it since day 1. Tired of hearing how you wish the game would be, would rather see you guys try and play it as it is, experiment on how to flex low tier teams and different play styles. Would make for much more interesting content.
Pointless. The Q4 data-slate should be coming out in a few weeks and WCW just happened. People have already tried and played "as is," extensively. There is no "flex low tier teams and different play styles," to solve the problem. There's two different games going on right now - a Heavyweights game defined by who can hang with Warpcoven/Legionary/PlagueMarines/Necrons and a game for everybody else outside that weight class. If you cross teams from one weight-class into the other the game implodes.
All I want for Christmas is a good data slate.
I understand that. Its hard to really make anything work against the top teams right now.
I took death Korps to the world championship to do just that, expose any secrets that might be there. To show how to beat marines with a bottom tier team.
And the answer is if both players are similar skill level its unfortunantly unwinable at that lvl of play.
With 3 obj and multiple other variations, competatively there is only one way to win the game at the moment. The game feels very stagnant and that why we talk about ballance. The game has to change and rebalance BC the game is in a stagnant straight forward state atm.
We will hold off on balance talks in the future until we get the data slate I hear you