I worked for this company between 1996 & 1997. The wingsails are controlled by a computer. When the winds gets too strong the computer automatically feathers them. The design was good but John Walker (designer) was perpetually designing and never producing. Also he and his wife reputedly lived a jet-set life style and, in the end, only four of the production boats were ever delivered - ofranklin
Thanks for posting this video. These ships seem capable, but the lack of information leaves one without a foundation for an opinion. Connors and the America's cup champion with a sail comes immediately to mind, for it was astonishly capable.
Haha it's still very entertaining right? And the planesail on the freighter is actually way forward thinking. In the 90's (or late 80's judging by this video production) nobody cared to enhance fuel economy of large vessels. Bet they do now!
Soul Survivors - JAMIE KALETH Sound recording 3:06 - 4:09 play match Incognito - JAMIE KALETH Sound recording 0:00 - 1:09 play match Caribbean Cocktail 2 - PAUL GREEDUS Sound recording 1:09 - 2:08 play match Jamaica Roll - PAUL GREEDUS_AdShare2013 Sound recording 2:07 - 2:37 play match
Skiiwa My website Planesail.com lists shows details of my boat, Planesail, and the 4 smaller Zefyr models (both seen in the video) built by Walker Wingsails.
davidnatha The Advantages and Disadvantages section of your website Is what I been looking for! I really couldn't see any downside to these things. Now I see 1 of the big issue is you really need to be able to collapse them. Why aren't they suitable for a live-aboard though? Because its always whipping the boat about?
Skiiwa There are constant wind shifts in a marina or mooring. It takes the wingsail (with the tail angle set to 0) a few seconds to align itself with the wind. The boat sheers back and forth till the rig is (re)aligned with the wind. At sea, the worse the conditions, the more of a joy they are to have.
You should make a race across the ocean against other trimarans to prove. I guess that a computer can control planesails more easily, but how to react with plainsail, when a storm comes? You can't put it down, I guess.
+justjohnny05 Nice idea, but, unfortunately, the numbers don't support your proposal. 1) Horizontal solar panels generate MUCH more electricity than Vertical panels - especially when the sun is strongest, at Noon! 2) The "domestic" power you need is under 1 Kw but the propulsive power you need is many tens of Kw, involving many tons of batteries. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BBranor_PlanetSolar
panels are getting more efficient and cheaper all the time so one day it will but you could also cover the top surfaces of the vessel with the same flexible panels and use one or more helical wind turbines as well in fact one giant helical rotating turbine could be part of the mast in the center of the plane sail
+justjohnny05 Another nice idea. Thank you. I would LOVE to be wrong,. However the numbers say no again! The maximum theoretical efficiency of a PV panel is under 34%. Modern PV panels get up to 24%, so there is only a 40% increase in efficiency possible for PV panels. If you propose using "one or more helical wind turbines as well in fact one giant helical rotating turbine could be part of the mast in the center of the plane sail" then, I believe, you would get much more propulsive power from the non mechanical wingsail than you could hope to get from any turbine coupled in some way to propeller(s), because of the massive mechanical losses. If you wish to "store" the helical turbine energy in a battery then I propose you continue with this mathematical exercise and determine the weight of batteries you would need to move the boat after 3 days of light winds that are too light for the turbines to generate any power, but are adequate for the wingsail to drive the boat.
I assume that this vessel probably has a gas engine for when theres little wind it would still be better to have an electric motor powered by batteries and or using power when theres alot of wind and sun to convert sea water into oxygen and hydrogen to later maybe when no wind or at night convert back to electricity with a hydrogen fuel cell that will also produce drinkable water as well.
+davidnatha btw i saw where they have solar panels up to 37% in a lab and they are now using micro lenses on pv's to increase solar intensity to get that number up higher.
truth is its not viable. .. a stiff dacron, mylar and Kevlar... sail will perform nearly as well as these but they can be reefed and controlled .... these rigid wings only problem is they are rigid. this means they can't be taken out of the wind. ...
+jolllyroger1 After extensive wind tunnel testing and optimisation, John Walker claimed that his rigid wing design was equivalent to a single surface wing three time the area. Do you have numerical data that supports your claim?
+davidnatha it's in years and years of data beginning with the Wright brothers who used 2 wings both were single surface ..... and I personally have been designing and building aircraft for 37 years .... I can look at a shape and tell you is efficiency. ... as great as all the ideas people come up with are in theory reality comes in with safety being the number one concern. ... for anyone sailing the world their number one desire is to arrive at their next destination. it's wondrous fun and I love sailing at high speed for the fun of it ..... but once I get out 15 miles only 2 things are important ..... simplicity and durability ..... and with aircraft once you leave the ground is the same. once you're 15 miles out even your bed sheets can be used as sails ... yet few people have made the attempt because they are under duress and the thinking becomes narrow minded. anyone that goes to see should consider the other uses for every item they bring on board. .... sheets and blankets should be selected for their use as sails possibly and as fiberglass cloth replacement for hull patching if that need arises. .... the more complex your systems become and the more you rely on things that are not basic the more your life becomes at risk. GPS is great when it's working when it stops completely it sucks but when it is off its most dangerous... same with a compass. .... risk factors go up exponentially with speed
+davidnatha I guess I should say that one of these rigid sails up in changing winds would break the sail and the boat. imagine sailing along in 45 mph winds when hit by a 45 mph wind gust at 45 degrees different angle ...... what you will see is a disaster yet with your soft sails the blow will be softened.
+jolllyroger1 > a stiff dacron, mylar and Kevlar... sail will perform nearly as well as these but they can be reefed and controlled< Do you have numerical data that supports your claim? The video shows footage taken in the aftermath of Hurricane Claudette. The only Walker Wingsail trimaran to attempt a circumnavigation, Angel B, arrived without mishap. More details can be found on my Planesail.com website, including an enginering drawing of the Zefyr Wingsail. Questions: 1) I would value your opinion (and CL number) of how "efficient" the Walker Wingsail is. 2) I would value your estimation of how many ropes a rig with your (conventionally) reefable sail rig needs. For the Walker Wingsail this number is zero. > imagine sailing along in 45 mph winds when hit by a 45 mph wind gust at 45 degrees different angle< Please unconstrain you mind with the amazingly conventional thinking of >I personally have been designing and building aircraft for 37 years< Since the Wingsail is unconstrained, it weathercocks in around a second. Nobody needs to go on deck. Nobody on board has to do anything whatsoever. In contrast, please consider the skill level / lack of skill level that your >hit by a 45 mph wind gust at 45 degrees different angle< glibly implies when there is the minimum crew on watch, the rest asleep, exhausted from handling (safely?) several previous scenarios of >sailing along in 45 mph winds when hit by a 45 mph wind gust at 45 degrees different angle< In the scenario you described above, please elaborate on your theme of "safety being the number one concern". Kind regards!
+jolllyroger1 finally somebody who understands. My boat's bedsheets are all made from old spinnakers, and we sleep on rolls of greenhouse plastic in case we have to make sails. I won't allow anybody to come sailing with me unless their clothes are made of Dacron, which is available in many fashionable colours. I once made a sail out of nothing but G strings, but it took so long we all died of thirst. Since then I've switched to Dacron MC Hammer pants and couldn't be happier.
I worked for this company between 1996 & 1997. The wingsails are controlled by a computer. When the winds gets too strong the computer automatically feathers them. The design was good but John Walker (designer) was perpetually designing and never producing. Also he and his wife reputedly lived a jet-set life style and, in the end, only four of the production boats were ever delivered - ofranklin
One of these entered Portsmouth Harbour, UK, this evening.
Thanks for posting this video. These ships seem capable, but the lack of information leaves one without a foundation for an opinion. Connors and the America's cup champion with a sail comes immediately to mind, for it was astonishly capable.
Haha it's still very entertaining right? And the planesail on the freighter is actually way forward thinking. In the 90's (or late 80's judging by this video production) nobody cared to enhance fuel economy of large vessels. Bet they do now!
where can I buy the cassette tape of this awesome muzak?
+toranamunter HTH:
Soul Survivors - JAMIE KALETH
Sound recording
3:06 - 4:09 play match
Incognito - JAMIE KALETH
Sound recording
0:00 - 1:09 play match
Caribbean Cocktail 2 - PAUL GREEDUS
Sound recording
1:09 - 2:08 play match
Jamaica Roll - PAUL GREEDUS_AdShare2013
Sound recording
2:07 - 2:37 play match
Thanks, awesome boat :-)
A sail is a wing but you can vary that amount of wing. This, you tip over in high winds
+Mazda rx7 Please see my reply to jolllyroger1 below. Thanks!
@OliverDRF Oliver do you know where any VPP info or performance stats might be seen for this rig or these boats.?
Where can I see or try it?
How come u don't see these in production? (Or at least I never have)
Was wondering what happened to these things! Great Idea and Unlike a lot of folks, I think they look great!
Skiiwa My website Planesail.com lists shows details of my boat, Planesail, and the 4 smaller Zefyr models (both seen in the video) built by Walker Wingsails.
davidnatha The Advantages and Disadvantages section of your website Is what I been looking for! I really couldn't see any downside to these things. Now I see 1 of the big issue is you really need to be able to collapse them. Why aren't they suitable for a live-aboard though? Because its always whipping the boat about?
Skiiwa There are constant wind shifts in a marina or mooring. It takes the wingsail (with the tail angle set to 0) a few seconds to align itself with the wind. The boat sheers back and forth till the rig is (re)aligned with the wind. At sea, the worse the conditions, the more of a joy they are to have.
That why I was interested in the first place was because they sounded like a dream in bad weather. Not to mention they are perfect for solo sailors!
how do you reef in a storm.... a wing is great but in to much wind you still have a plane up and if winds shift often your f'd
if you think about it that's sorta what America cup is using now
Good video
why is whenever you see a video about a green non polluting vehicle you have to watch an add by pennzoil first???
Who do you think pays for "green"?
@00Mandingo00 a wing can surprisingly be depowered very easily much better than a regular cloth sail
You should make a race across the ocean against other trimarans to prove. I guess that a computer can control planesails more easily, but how to react with plainsail, when a storm comes? You can't put it down, I guess.
This is where Neel trimarans got their inspirations for their boats
the sail has to be a large square in order to 3-4 x the speed.
They look cool to me , and no more ripped sails !
now just cover the "plane sails" with lightweight flexible solar panels powering the interior and electric motors and got something.
+justjohnny05 Nice idea, but, unfortunately, the numbers don't support your proposal. 1) Horizontal solar panels generate MUCH more electricity than Vertical panels - especially when the sun is strongest, at Noon! 2) The "domestic" power you need is under 1 Kw but the propulsive power you need is many tens of Kw, involving many tons of batteries. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BBranor_PlanetSolar
panels are getting more efficient and cheaper all the time so one day it will but you could also cover the top surfaces of the vessel with the same flexible panels and use one or more helical wind turbines as well in fact one giant helical rotating turbine could be part of the mast in the center of the plane sail
+justjohnny05 Another nice idea. Thank you. I would LOVE to be wrong,. However the numbers say no again! The maximum theoretical efficiency of a PV panel is under 34%. Modern PV panels get up to 24%, so there is only a 40% increase in efficiency possible for PV panels. If you propose using "one or more helical wind turbines as well in fact one giant helical rotating turbine could be part of the mast in the center of the plane sail" then, I believe, you would get much more propulsive power from the non mechanical wingsail than you could hope to get from any turbine coupled in some way to propeller(s), because of the massive mechanical losses. If you wish to "store" the helical turbine energy in a battery then I propose you continue with this mathematical exercise and determine the weight of batteries you would need to move the boat after 3 days of light winds that are too light for the turbines to generate any power, but are adequate for the wingsail to drive the boat.
I assume that this vessel probably has a gas engine for when theres little wind it would still be better to have an electric motor powered by batteries and or using power when theres alot of wind and sun to convert sea water into oxygen and hydrogen to later maybe when no wind or at night convert back to electricity with a hydrogen fuel cell that will also produce drinkable water as well.
+davidnatha btw i saw where they have solar panels up to 37% in a lab and they are now using micro lenses on pv's to increase solar intensity to get that number up higher.
advancement needed defintly the vidio and other
The first 20 seconds in negative should have been cut out.
What a beastly thing, thank god that fad didn't last
truth is its not viable. ..
a stiff dacron, mylar and Kevlar... sail will perform nearly as well as these but they can be reefed and controlled .... these rigid wings only problem is they are rigid. this means they can't be taken out of the wind. ...
+jolllyroger1 After extensive wind tunnel testing and optimisation, John Walker claimed that his rigid wing design was equivalent to a single surface wing three time the area. Do you have numerical data that supports your claim?
+davidnatha it's in years and years of data beginning with the Wright brothers who used 2 wings both were single surface ..... and I personally have been designing and building aircraft for 37 years .... I can look at a shape and tell you is efficiency. ...
as great as all the ideas people come up with are in theory reality comes in with safety being the number one concern. ...
for anyone sailing the world their number one desire is to arrive at their next destination.
it's wondrous fun and I love sailing at high speed for the fun of it ..... but once I get out 15 miles only 2 things are important ..... simplicity and durability .....
and with aircraft once you leave the ground is the same.
once you're 15 miles out even your bed sheets can be used as sails ... yet few people have made the attempt because they are under duress and the thinking becomes narrow minded.
anyone that goes to see should consider the other uses for every item they bring on board. ....
sheets and blankets should be selected for their use as sails possibly and as fiberglass cloth replacement for hull patching if that need arises. .... the more complex your systems become and the more you rely on things that are not basic the more your life becomes at risk.
GPS is great when it's working when it stops completely it sucks but when it is off its most dangerous... same with a compass. ....
risk factors go up exponentially with speed
+davidnatha I guess I should say that one of these rigid sails up in changing winds would break the sail and the boat. imagine sailing along in 45 mph winds when hit by a 45 mph wind gust at 45 degrees different angle ...... what you will see is a disaster yet with your soft sails the blow will be softened.
+jolllyroger1
> a stiff dacron, mylar and Kevlar... sail will perform nearly as well as these but they can be reefed and controlled<
Do you have numerical data that supports your claim?
The video shows footage taken in the aftermath of Hurricane Claudette.
The only Walker Wingsail trimaran to attempt a circumnavigation, Angel B, arrived without mishap. More details can be found on my Planesail.com website, including an enginering drawing of the Zefyr Wingsail. Questions: 1) I would value your opinion (and CL number) of how "efficient" the Walker Wingsail is. 2) I would value your estimation of how many ropes a rig with your (conventionally) reefable sail rig needs. For the Walker Wingsail this number is zero.
> imagine sailing along in 45 mph winds when hit by a 45 mph wind gust at 45 degrees different angle<
Please unconstrain you mind with the amazingly conventional thinking of
>I personally have been designing and building aircraft for 37 years<
Since the Wingsail is unconstrained, it weathercocks in around a second. Nobody needs to go on deck. Nobody on board has to do anything whatsoever.
In contrast, please consider the skill level / lack of skill level that your
>hit by a 45 mph wind gust at 45 degrees different angle<
glibly implies when there is the minimum crew on watch, the rest asleep, exhausted from handling (safely?) several previous scenarios of
>sailing along in 45 mph winds when hit by a 45 mph wind gust at 45 degrees different angle<
In the scenario you described above, please elaborate on your theme of "safety being the number one concern". Kind regards!
+jolllyroger1 finally somebody who understands. My boat's bedsheets are all made from old spinnakers, and we sleep on rolls of greenhouse plastic in case we have to make sails. I won't allow anybody to come sailing with me unless their clothes are made of Dacron, which is available in many fashionable colours. I once made a sail out of nothing but G strings, but it took so long we all died of thirst. Since then I've switched to Dacron MC Hammer pants and couldn't be happier.
Capable maybe but Oh So FUGLY Aesthetically needs some work. Pretty cool technology leap though
Terrible MUSAC ! ugly looking boats prefer the shape of real sails but i guess these are more efficient??