5 Essential Things You NEED to Know About Nail Guns

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  • Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
  • This is the ultimate guide for beginner woodworkers to learn about both pin and brad nailers. Which nail gun system should you get, battery versus air, brad nails versus pin nails, as well as some woodworking tips and tricks for nail guns. Amazon and other affiliate links are used in this description and they help support this channel.
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    ➤Air Powered Nail Guns
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    Just the Pin Nailer: amzn.to/3tn3W37
    Air Compressor Accessories (you'll want to add these): amzn.to/3tssU1j
    ➤Battery Powered Nailer Options:
    Porter-Cable 20v Brad Nailer: amzn.to/33cHqiQ
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    ➤Budget Air Compressor and Nailer Set Up Recommendation (Less than $250 for all 3 below):
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    Pin Nailer: amzn.to/3HXSZsX
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    0:00 Intro
    0:24 Air vs Battery Nail Guns
    1:40 Brad Nail Sizes and Types
    4:34 Using a Brad Nailer
    7:49 Air vs Battery Nailer Pros / Cons
    8:34 Air Tool Basics
    10:46 Best Nail Gun for Beginner Woodworkers
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 253

  • @Wurzberger
    @Wurzberger 2 роки тому +58

    Some people won't like my humor, but I thought it was funny talking about nail guns while wearing a shirt that says "only Jesus"... 😂

    • @garypatrick7817
      @garypatrick7817 6 місяців тому +1

      I don’t get it…?

    • @MoonMagicks
      @MoonMagicks 6 місяців тому +13

      ​@@garypatrick7817Jesus was nailed to the cross.

    • @tylerconnell3709
      @tylerconnell3709 5 місяців тому +2

      I thought the same thing tbh

    • @andre1987eph
      @andre1987eph 5 місяців тому

      Not those kinda nails

    • @zachkennedy9282
      @zachkennedy9282 5 місяців тому +4

      I mean... kind of stupid humor but ok. I guess it's funny if you're in 9th grade

  • @pirakoXX
    @pirakoXX 2 роки тому +70

    Great info video! 👍 And for other beginners: Gauge = nails per inch.
    18 gauge = 18 nails per inch. (The higher the gauge number, the thinner the nails)

    • @MTNurse
      @MTNurse 7 місяців тому +2

      Thanks!

    • @aofddofa6661
      @aofddofa6661 2 місяці тому

      now i know how to remember it !

  • @gravetotkd
    @gravetotkd 2 роки тому +55

    I worked in the trades for 15 years and it never occurred to me that the direction of the nailer would determine if the nail would blow out the side or not. This shows, you can always learn something new. Thanks Matt

    • @lukemorrison4876
      @lukemorrison4876 2 роки тому +2

      I came here to say the exact thing! I’m just a hobbyist but this tip is huge for me.

    • @bris.e
      @bris.e 8 місяців тому +1

      That was a great tip. I am a DIYer and, of course, that has happened to me like a 100 times with no clue of why. Thank you so much! Great video!

    • @daddypanda3134
      @daddypanda3134 7 місяців тому

      What do you mean?

    • @aofddofa6661
      @aofddofa6661 2 місяці тому

      @daddypanda3134
      they talk about this period .. from 5:40 to 6:45 , please watch 5:40 and you will learn something new as it was very helpful for me

  • @jpullins27
    @jpullins27 2 роки тому +12

    Just want you to know, there are thousands of woodworkers on UA-cam but you're my favorite. This is because of your clear faith and desire to be a light in this world. Thank you.

  • @preacher1775
    @preacher1775 Рік тому +7

    As a rookie pneumatic tool guy, I had lots of questions about their use. I watched several videos on the subject, and this one is the best of all of them.

  • @wessmasseymusic3922
    @wessmasseymusic3922 Рік тому +4

    Thank you for the video. Just a warning. Try to not leave air in the compressor. Condensation eventually will rust out the bottom side of the air tank. Because I leave mine in my non conditioned garage, I try to exhaust the air after each use. Temp fluctuations create more vapor inside of the tank.

  • @andythurs4590
    @andythurs4590 4 місяці тому +1

    I'm getting into woodworking and setting up a home shop after taking a job working with special ed kids at my local school. I get to go into shop class with a kid everyday and found that I absolutely love it. Your videos have been incredibly helpful in trying to get a home shop setup going. I always know I can come to your channel and find help with what I need. Thank you.

  • @paulhopkins1905
    @paulhopkins1905 Рік тому +4

    I've had that Porter Cable kit for years, the brad, finish, and stapler have been great, with no issues at all. I bought the pinner at a later date

  • @vince613
    @vince613 Рік тому +11

    I just picked up the Rigid pneumatic set and I love it. I could not for the life of me figure out why I kept getting blowouts though - until today. What a relief to realize it wasn’t my total lack of skill but they way the nail will curve. That was a huge eye opener to me and I appreciate the detail you give in your videos. Great stuff man!

  • @MrJohnnyboyrebel
    @MrJohnnyboyrebel 2 роки тому +4

    I bought a Porter-Cable nail gun bundle in 2006, and have used it ever since. It came with a narrow crown stapler, 18 ga brad nailer, and 16 ga finish nailer. I will be adding a 23 ga pin nailer to my set. Once I got this set, I wondered how I was able to do any precise assembly before. Holding the work pieces steady, holding a nail, then swinging a hammer now seems SO clunky as opposed to positioning the work pieces and popping in a brad or finish nail. This is easily one of the best purchases I ever made.

  • @823Steve
    @823Steve Рік тому +8

    If you look closely at how the wedge tip is cut you can tell which direction the pin or brad will deflect. Then turn the gun so the brad will deflect on the length of the board instead of the width. Much less likely for it to come through the side on you.

    • @nickb8755
      @nickb8755 7 місяців тому

      Can you load the brad nails into the gun facing either direction?

    • @Mike-hu8yz
      @Mike-hu8yz 3 місяці тому

      ​@@nickb8755Yup

  • @seabee7071
    @seabee7071 Рік тому +8

    Brad nail hack: When you load the nails, use a magic marker to indicate the "point" side of the nail strip. Simply run the marker along the whole length of the "point" side of the nail strip. If you have a partial strip left over, with no factory point indicated, you will ALWAYS have the right nail orientation in the gun.

  • @HuntsWorkshop
    @HuntsWorkshop 2 роки тому +8

    M18 gen 2 cordless 18g brad nailer is pretty light and works perfectly with the 2ah battery zero ramp up time, rapid fire mode, etc. It is $300 compared to a $30 pneumatic though. All depends on how much you want to spend, how often you use it, and how much your significant other despises air compressor noise.

    • @scottslotterbeck3796
      @scottslotterbeck3796 Рік тому

      Also what battery sustem you have. I have a DeWalt system, not going to switch.

  • @JohnSmith-4U
    @JohnSmith-4U 9 місяців тому

    I came here because I had no knowledge about nail guns and I'm about to buy one. Now I have basic knowledge about this tool. Thanks!!!!!

  • @BridgitofHyjal
    @BridgitofHyjal Рік тому +2

    My wife bought the Porter Cable brad nail set for me years ago and I still love it. I never used the pin nailer because I wasn’t sure what application it was for. You cleared that up for me. I also was tossing around the idea of picking up a cordless Milwaukee but will give it a pass now. Thanks Matt

  • @robk1310
    @robk1310 2 роки тому +3

    You need to try the Milwaukee M22 23ga pin nailer. It’s light and powerful, as well as cordless. I love mine.

  • @nmurphy7281
    @nmurphy7281 2 роки тому +10

    As a subscriber to the motto “the tool you use is better than the one you don’t”, I have to say I love the battery powered Brad nail gun over the air powered. I picked up the Craftsman one a month ago and find myself using it all the time, it’s just so convenient. Being in a small shop, taking out the air compressor and firing it up was something I found myself avoiding.

    • @austinbowles
      @austinbowles 2 роки тому +2

      definitely have been considering it but have already dropped a load of cash on tools lately

  • @carolcarden4712
    @carolcarden4712 2 роки тому +2

    Great video. I just bought an air nailer…UA-cam/Google must have known and placed your video in my suggestions. 😯
    Subscribed to your page, not only for your knowledge, but for the t-shirt too. Thanks.

  • @pmhum
    @pmhum Місяць тому

    Great video. Very helpful.

  • @MountainPostWoodworks
    @MountainPostWoodworks 2 роки тому +1

    great video, I didn't really understand those items, but now I know what I need for my shop

  • @jamesclifford4284
    @jamesclifford4284 Місяць тому

    Thank you,great advice

  • @PinkBabyDoll
    @PinkBabyDoll 22 дні тому

    This was extremely helpful. Thank you for this video ❤

  • @angetodac
    @angetodac 2 місяці тому

    great presentation! thanks

  • @HIM.9
    @HIM.9 Рік тому

    Awesome video. Thorough explanations!

  • @blanco988
    @blanco988 3 місяці тому

    Great video! Thank you, Sir! 👍🏻

  • @ReallionaireDad
    @ReallionaireDad 10 місяців тому +1

    Thanks for the rundown brother! Straight forward no fluff. 💪🏿💪🏿 I’m offering new services for my clients and this was spot on what I needed to see. UA-cam and You for the win!!! Thanks again…

  • @SleazyDutcham
    @SleazyDutcham 10 годин тому

    Thanks for the video, I found it very helpful! Definitely confirms my gut feeling that air is the way to go for my specific needs. I already have a large portable compressor, but now that I know there's a bundle that includes multiple gauge guns and a small compressor, I may try to track that down. Also wanted to share my opinion on the flexibility air offers... if you don't already have a compressor, going that route unlocks a lot of other options once you have one, with other kinds of air-powered tools I mean. The battery path, assuming it even comes with one, just gets you another battery and comes with the downside of being tied to one battery system.

  • @CraigularjJoeWoodworks
    @CraigularjJoeWoodworks Рік тому

    Thanks for the video Matt, good information to reference

  • @MTNurse
    @MTNurse 7 місяців тому

    Thanks Matt. This was a really helpful video for me!

  • @stephencromer1526
    @stephencromer1526 2 роки тому

    I have the exact same set up and still learned something. You’re awesome!

  • @woodworksbygrampies1284
    @woodworksbygrampies1284 2 роки тому +7

    Hola! 🖐 One of the best videos I have seen explaining the operation and functionality of the pneumatic tools! I really appreciate all the info you shared in this video. Keep it coming. Take care and have a good one :D 👊

  • @mikeryan2802
    @mikeryan2802 Рік тому

    Informative as usual. Thanks.

  • @flippinzippo9670
    @flippinzippo9670 4 місяці тому

    Just got this set up, appreciate the video

  • @martiewyckoff4539
    @martiewyckoff4539 9 місяців тому

    Casting Crowns - that was a great tour! Thanks for the information. You provided many of the details I've been looking for.

  • @carlkoepp1112
    @carlkoepp1112 2 роки тому +6

    Thank you for this video, tho I am watching much after the fact of having bought my own set-up. All that you have mentioned I had to learn the hard way through trial and error, but to good avail. I actually bought the same air nailer set you have and have had great experiences with it. One thing I would mention is: the pin nails/23 gauge, have been dipped in glue much like 16 penny framing nails so it helps bond a bit better than those without. As was mentioned in another comment, placing them at an angle \ / can also help hold the piece together where angles are afforded. I find that I use my nailers more often than I ever thought needed which makes them one of the best investments in my shop. Love your videos, thank you for sharing.

  • @feliciabrasuell1997
    @feliciabrasuell1997 7 місяців тому

    I am sure glad I found you on here. Videos are always very helpful, and I have learned so much from watching you. THANKS for all you do to help us........

  • @Jason-iy9yc
    @Jason-iy9yc Рік тому

    Thank you very useful information

  • @NatureCircumstance
    @NatureCircumstance 6 місяців тому

    Great content, very well delivered 👍🏼

  • @johnjackson9601
    @johnjackson9601 Рік тому

    Lots of great information. Love your shirt! Thank you for sharing!

  • @davidbryan2646
    @davidbryan2646 2 роки тому +1

    Love it. I own that set up as well and learned a couple of things once again thank you Brother

  • @johngregg5735
    @johngregg5735 2 роки тому +3

    Nailers are great!
    One caveat - I found out that a nailer can be fired if the trigger mechanism is depressed. The nailer doesn't care if it's solidly on the wood or not.
    But the wife wasn't there to see the accident and no trip to the emergency room, so lesson learned.
    Back when nailers first came out, we had a carpenter doing work on our house. He just started using this new technology and managed to shoot a framing into his hand. I took him to the emergency room.
    The nurse asked, "Why didn't you just stop hammering when it first started going into your hand?"

    • @HoneyHollowHomestead
      @HoneyHollowHomestead 2 роки тому +1

      That is why I always remove the battery from my brad nailer when I am done nailing the piece I am working on.

  • @muriellord541
    @muriellord541 Місяць тому

    Thanks for this tutorial! It was very well done. Trying my hand at doing my own baseboards & chair rails. Feeling way more confident I won't ruin any molding (well hopefully not as much anyway). 😉👍

  • @williamclark9743
    @williamclark9743 2 роки тому

    Wow. I really like how you break this down so a guy like me can understand this. Terrific video.

  • @marioarvizu7077
    @marioarvizu7077 Рік тому

    Great video! Each second worth!!!

  • @lowlow9693
    @lowlow9693 Рік тому

    Great video, very informative

  • @tonycooper6528
    @tonycooper6528 6 місяців тому

    Great video it has just helped me decide what nail gun I need....thankyou

  • @chrisnash2154
    @chrisnash2154 2 роки тому +12

    Great video as usual. I do recommend purging the tank weekly or immediately if you don’t plan on using it for a while. The water that collects on the inside can rust the tank. If you get the opportunity, check out Milwaukee’s 2 gal battery powered tank. Great tank for nailing and can run most of the day on a 12 amp hour battery.

    • @6453bianchi
      @6453bianchi 2 роки тому +2

      Oh yea def Emory the tank. Left mine full overnight and next day when I emptied it there was brown water coming out of it.

    • @scottslotterbeck3796
      @scottslotterbeck3796 Рік тому +1

      Expensive though

  • @fredcarroll5859
    @fredcarroll5859 2 роки тому +4

    The value of shopping around: Porter Cable and Craftsman sell their 3 tool plus pancake compressor combo with a hose and fittings for $99 on Black Friday, during the Christmas ad period and again around Father’s Day.

    • @CHADS202
      @CHADS202 2 роки тому

      Thanks that's worth waiting on as I'm a novice and won't be using it on a daily basis.

  • @jasonlara
    @jasonlara Рік тому +1

    So much info. Well presented. No time wasted. Perfect.

  • @ugandy3417
    @ugandy3417 Рік тому

    Than you so much, excellent video

  • @mrbo4576
    @mrbo4576 Рік тому

    Great amazing thank you very helpful

  • @VipinAbraham
    @VipinAbraham 5 місяців тому

    Great video

  • @MarcBridie
    @MarcBridie Рік тому

    Great video, I'm just a shopper right now, but you gave me some things to think about. Thank you!

  • @rizkiumlati_867
    @rizkiumlati_867 Місяць тому

    such a great video

  • @princessann9285
    @princessann9285 Рік тому

    Thankyou for making this video, my first time using a nail gun, you answered all my questions

  • @suzetteedwards7956
    @suzetteedwards7956 Рік тому

    Good info, thank you. BTW. Love the shirt!

  • @brianpowers2536
    @brianpowers2536 Рік тому

    Great video.

  • @dlm4526
    @dlm4526 Рік тому

    Excellent content and I love the shirt!

  • @Ramenjoa127
    @Ramenjoa127 7 місяців тому

    I bought them as your recommendation thank you

  • @Anonymous-is2qb
    @Anonymous-is2qb 6 місяців тому

    Very helpful and your channel is great. Congratulations on all your subscribers 🙂

  • @JuanMoreno-pu2qe
    @JuanMoreno-pu2qe 24 дні тому

    Nice video, and awesome shirt!!!!

  • @Imbringingwordback
    @Imbringingwordback 2 роки тому +3

    Love the channel and love the shirt!! Keep sharing knowledge and Jesus!

  • @erallen97
    @erallen97 2 роки тому +1

    Great video! The only thing I would add is that the staplers are also great to have around.

  • @PeterB_California
    @PeterB_California Рік тому

    Thanks!

  • @dvsninja2
    @dvsninja2 2 роки тому

    Love your videos, keep it up! God bless!

  • @quintarius103
    @quintarius103 2 роки тому

    Love the shirt dude and great video

  • @DaemnNoctus
    @DaemnNoctus 2 роки тому +4

    I got the craftsman version plus bought the pin nailer and framing nailer to go with it. First time3having pneumatics. I got the rigid palm nailer as well which is my absolute favorite pneumatic tool. I have used it to build a shed and a fence around my property

    • @lyndaboonstra5605
      @lyndaboonstra5605 5 місяців тому

      I love the ridgid palm nailer! My buddy and I were putting in joist hangers and hurricane ties for his deck. Ten nails in each, 4 per joist, 18 joists. My poor buddy can't start a nail straight to save his life. So I went down the line getting it started straight and he came behind with the palm nailer. Never so much fun and did a job so fast in my life.

  • @HeliRy
    @HeliRy 7 місяців тому

    Just picked up a like-new Porter Cable compressor, hose and 18 gauge nailer for $95. Brand new that kit is $245 (including taxes) in my neck of the woods.
    What a deal!! 🤘🤘

  • @warrensmith2902
    @warrensmith2902 6 місяців тому

    I keep a nail test block in my shop to drive a few nails/brads once I'm ready just to ake sure everything is set correctly.

  • @Aaron091673
    @Aaron091673 Рік тому +2

    I have the same compressor and nail gun set. You can not beat it for the price. I would love to have cordless nail guns but right now can not afford the high prices.

    • @731Woodworks
      @731Woodworks  Рік тому +1

      It's crazy how expensive the cordless ones are.

  • @asbrand
    @asbrand 2 роки тому +4

    I have a Kimo branded battery powered brad nailer I got off of Amazon. Works great. Weight really hasn't been an issue for me, as I only use it to help with glue-ups or jigs.

  • @2006mrderrickh
    @2006mrderrickh Рік тому

    Thanks for the video. The most helpful video out there. I just bought a bunch of battery tools since they are on sale for black Friday.
    Ridgid Nail Framer, Jig Saw, Circular Saw : $349
    Angle Grinder w/ 2 batteries and charging kit: $169
    18 gauge framing nailer w/ battery and charger: $229
    5 tools, 3 batteries and 2 chargers for a Total $747. I think that's a good deal.

  • @seanc6468
    @seanc6468 2 роки тому +1

    Bought a combo kit. Bostich Nailer, Brad and stapler with a pancake compressor. I think I have it covered.

  • @MojoPup
    @MojoPup Рік тому +1

    Great video! I have both, but I rarely pull out my pneumatic to go do home repair due to the required compressor. It's fine for the shop

  • @jhippl
    @jhippl 2 роки тому +5

    I got the same kit and i love the 16 gauge nailer for when i do shiplap and the 23 gauge is used as "clamps" to let the glue dry, I have found that if i drive the 23 gauge pin nails at an angle like \ / down the board they have a bit more holding power.

  • @MarriedManWoodworking
    @MarriedManWoodworking 2 роки тому +1

    Good coverage on the topic. Nicely done Matt.

  • @VWonder737
    @VWonder737 12 днів тому

    Thanks. Looking to buy my first and already own a compressor.

  • @majstrujeme8352
    @majstrujeme8352 Рік тому

    Well thank you for very informative video.

  • @bobsackett9105
    @bobsackett9105 2 роки тому +2

    Great video! Been using a brad nailer off and on for a few years, and just now learned about holding the gun so the nail doesn't come out the side of the wood.

  • @joshuabennett7334
    @joshuabennett7334 Рік тому +1

    The thing a hobbyist needs to think about is value. With a air tools you do require a air compressor but a good air compressor can do multiple things. Pump your car tire pull double duty for mechanical work. A battery tool you invest in the battery and unless you have a lot of compatible tools it is dedicated to that tool

  • @royruther4895
    @royruther4895 8 місяців тому

    I bought the cheapest set up from Harbor Freight. While I'm not a big HF fan, it was cheap. About $150 for the whole set up not on sale. $60 McGraw compressor, $30 Banks 18g nail gun, 25 ft hose and fittings. It doesn't come with oil, so don't forget the buy some. It seems to working fine. I watched a "had it for 2 years" review. It seems to hold up pretty well.

  • @dylanwelch6681
    @dylanwelch6681 6 місяців тому

    Love the shirt and the video

  • @lisablack2567
    @lisablack2567 2 роки тому +2

    THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I bought an 18 gauge pneumatic a few months ago, and it's been sitting in the shop waiting to be used. I feel a LOT more confident about using it now! You answered every question I had and then some. SO... now I'm off to hang the 'fake shiplap'for my version of you guys' hall tree; is going to go a lot more quickly now! Wish me luck! Lol... thanks again!

  • @breeze787
    @breeze787 11 місяців тому

    I'm trying to replace my pneumatic guns with the battery powered brad nail guns.
    I have a 33 gal air compressor in the far corner of my garage and every time I have to brad nail trim in the house I loath dragging the hose and dealing with the reach. But now that I have an 18v 18ga brad nailer easy peasy. The 18v nailer might be heavier but come on 6 pounds and free of a hose? It's priceless.

  • @The77Game
    @The77Game Місяць тому

    When comparing weight, some hose should be added to the pneumatic one. It will still be lighter but it is the fair way to show it.

  • @MichaelSmith-nk4yq
    @MichaelSmith-nk4yq Рік тому

    Love your T-shirt brother 👍🏾✝️🙏🏾

  • @johnparker7945
    @johnparker7945 Рік тому

    Great shirt!

  • @JGerm
    @JGerm 8 місяців тому +1

    Love your channel …
    Correction : you don’t adjust the force. You adjust the ‘ depth adjuster ‘
    :)
    👍

  • @quadsquadracingable
    @quadsquadracingable 2 роки тому +2

    Been wanting to get a pin nailer! Now I'm definitely moving it up my priority list

  • @genevieveb5902
    @genevieveb5902 11 місяців тому

    I love your t-shirt. Amen!😀

  • @codacreator6162
    @codacreator6162 2 роки тому

    Path of least resistance? Great demo! I learned something from 731 today (as I do every time I visit). Thank you!

  • @Nienkemaas
    @Nienkemaas Рік тому

    Love your shirt

  • @tammystuecher3983
    @tammystuecher3983 2 роки тому

    Super helpful! Sold me on buying an air compressor!

    • @scottslotterbeck3796
      @scottslotterbeck3796 Рік тому

      If you do jobs for others, the battery is a better option. No set up, no air compressor to steal. Yes,it happens if you're nailing a roof on the second story.
      Things have gotten really bad. I could tell you stories.

  • @laigocustoms4965
    @laigocustoms4965 2 роки тому +2

    I have to agree Matt , I started with a 18 gage battery nailer and i thought it was the bees knees until i finally broke down and bought a pneumatic , and man a world of difference in the shop when you are nailing all day , the battery powered still have their place due to the portability , but in the shop its my pneumatics that see everyday use

  • @bartfoster1311
    @bartfoster1311 2 роки тому +9

    One tip for all Brad/pin nailers: never have your finger within the range of the fastener in any direction! The thin wire can hit a knot and come out in direction. I have had them come out and just kiss my finger but have yet to shoot one into my finger. Always be aware!

    • @laigocustoms4965
      @laigocustoms4965 2 роки тому +3

      I acuall shot my self in the finger a few days ago , hit a knot and the brad came completely out and went into the side of my index finger

    • @jodilea144
      @jodilea144 2 роки тому +2

      @@laigocustoms4965 yep, I had the same thing happen to me about a year ago - went partially into the middle knuckle of my index finger. It definitely taught me to be more aware of where I had my hand placed!

    • @milkymakes1
      @milkymakes1 2 роки тому +3

      Right into the end of my index finger. Brads weren't long enough to go through the wood but hit a soft spot and went clear through. They may have a slight point but it feels like its square on the end. Lol.

  • @kristingordon1683
    @kristingordon1683 Рік тому

    My pneumatic ridgid Brad nailer is oil free. Works great.

  • @eldoradocraftsman3733
    @eldoradocraftsman3733 2 роки тому +1

    Great tip regarding the direction of the gun resulting in the direction the pin travels through the grain. I’d never considered that. 👏🏾👏🏾

  • @wilfredoperez4416
    @wilfredoperez4416 Рік тому

    i love your shirt!!

  • @mind5533
    @mind5533 4 місяці тому

    Awesome info! I think you just saved me a whole lot of frustration. BTW: I just bought that same kit except from Kobalt at Lowes for $200!!

  • @momolife1982
    @momolife1982 2 роки тому +2

    Great video... But I always had a question about the 30degree and 20 degree angles of a nailer... What's the purpose of the angle?