The Only Ways is Ethics - Why do people have a problem with Vertex Pedals?
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- For my Presets visit: johnnathancord... The sequel aka "Flogging a dead or dying Horse".
I uploaded a video with the Nux Steel Singer yesterday, which Mason from Vertex had just done a video about the ethics of cloning, and making a number of suggestions - most of which were probably fair?
As it happens, Nux actually cloned a Free the Tone String Slinger - which is a TS derivative, apparently. As for the appearance - well that's a Dumble style knob, and Dumble style writing, and these also appeared on the Way Huge Overrated, which may or may not have predated Mason's design.
Anyway, all of this prompted some lively debate, and some folks think that Mason is catching some unnecessary heat for his past (which you might want to google if you want to get clued in), and think he has rectified past transgressions.
Anyway - is Cloning designs justifiable? Is rebadging an existing design justifiable? Is there a difference between a Chinese manufacturer selling a clone for £25 or a boutique builder selling a clone for £200? Do we expect a boutique builder to create their own designs?
Why not get drunk and comment below.
The problem I have with Mason and Vertex pedals is that Mason admitted to buying a certain pedal, changing the housing and reselling it as his own pedal. Now he is going after another company that seems to have only used a graphic that is similar to one of his pedals and calling that out as ethically questionable. This is definitely a matter of living in a glass house for Mason. I think the big issue is that Mason is worried about losing market share and is trying to discredit this other pedal to hedge his bets. I don’t buy Vertex equipment and this incident does not make me want to start.
By the way Mason deleted my comment on his video. He asked "Where in the video did I say it was a clone".I found 14 times in the video and timestamped them for him. Perhaps he didn't get a Dumble for christmas.
05:38 - Mumbling about Clones
10:15 Irony
10:55 - I don't care about this
I know you prefer civility, but MM can kick rocks, permanently. He is demonstrably a fraudster. He should be exiled by the guitar community. I lose a little bit of respect for every one of the great players he interviews, which is a crying shame. He is a scumbag and if I ever get a chance to tell him in person, I absolutely will.
This coming from a guy who told people he had his own custom cables being produced by a custom factory and sold them for $165 each. Lol. Turns out they were belden branded cables. This guy loves putting his name on stuff he didnt even make. His wah pedal fiasco wasnt even a clone. That would imply he actually made something. He just buys a pedal and puts his label on it, goops it, and marks it up. He's like an amazon basics pedal with jacked up prices.
See this is also new information. I'm not sure if the defense is coming from chaps who know the whole story or not? But it seems at every turn there's some other, I don't know, aggressively capitalistic (trying to give it a positive spin here) scheme
@@johnnathancordy "These are our own proprietary cables"... lol. From his own mouth. The axis wah was just the one that broke the camels back. www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/vertex-cables.1223060/post-17923669
Maybe he's young or something.....
@@johnnathancordy in his defense he makes a mean pedalboard since he is the rig doctor... wait what?! Lol. This dude is amazing! Love your playing btw. Bought your pod go patches. www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/steel-string-supreme-a-thread-re-new-statements-from-mason-vertex.2194661/post-31356513
@@laurendelosreyes9615
Re: those fake cables
“Then I switched to the Vertex. It made my other cable sound small and grainy. The Vertex was louder, yet even and uncolored, and the individual notes had more life in them. In chords, the notes were just more musical, less grainy, more separated, but not more hi fi/cold. Warmer, more inviting.
I suppose that with bad gear, bad ears, and a bad room, you might not notice the difference. But I sure did.”
Hahaha...people are so gullible. It’s quite sad really.
If Joe Bonamassa don’t trust him then...... 🐍 in the grass!
The guy is far from a boutique builder and yes, as far as I'm concerned a boutique builder comes up with their own designs. They definitely don't rebrand.
They don't have a problem with the pedals, but they do with Mason.. Happy Xmas !!
Happy christmas Clive! Hope you're enjoying the FM3?!!
The problem with the Nux is that it’s not $300, people just buy expensive pedals to be cool, guys have $10,000 guitar rigs that still suck. Find the guitar that works for you, find the pedals that work for you, and create art. Everything has been cloned, get back to creating music, there’s too much gear abstracting the mind it’s overwhelming. Love your channel, just wanted to share my opinion.
I can’t speak for everyone, but what I hate most about hypocrisy is its common misspelling.
I would have included it in the title but I couldn't spell it
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂👍🏼
Didn't Coolio try to sue Weird Al for his parody of Gangsta's Paradise, a song that was itself a blatant ripoff of Pasttime Paradise by Stevie Wonder?
Actually, Weird Al always gets permission when we does a parody song.
@@andyfuchs5252fact
Great video. That Vertex video gave me the creeps too. I don't know, the guy sometimes just feels a bit insincere and people feel that.
I don’t like that Vertex guy either, some shit he says about pedals isn’t true at all.
In the last 20 years ( And with another 15 years playing Guitar BEFORE that! ) I've witnessed; and was at the birth of the Boutique Pedal boom - what I have been able to observe is a point in time where the gear has become superficially more important than the actual music being written, played or imagined. In short, style over substance ... to the degree that Pedal Art Work is now a factor in Form and Function. We knew this level of fetishistic behaviour 20 years ago but where we are now is beyond the singularity! It's as Baudrillard would say ... the "simulacra" or the point where nothing new can be considered due to constant repetition of things already done. This is where with nowhere else original to go, the focus moves to the periphery - the superficial details rather than details of substance. Take Frank's advice ... "Shut up and play yer Guitar".
Remember when plugging into an amp and turning it on WAS tone?😊😊
Exactly. There are several great pedal shootouts online that prove some cheap pedals are comparable to vintage thousand dollar pedals
If a pedal sounds great, looks cool AND is affordable, I just can't hate.
My vertex pedal fell apart sonically. Fooled me once that’s it.
There's only so many ways to skin a cat, but serving it as foie gras and asking for that price is the issue
100% - and perhaps another little part of it is who the message is coming from?
Like I wouldn't take babysitting advice from Casey Anthony
he was the kid who would copy your test answers, and then tattle if you'd glance at his.
I’ve seen interviews with Jorge Tripps where he’s been asked if the Overrated Special is supposed to emulate a Dumble sound. His response has always been no that Joe Bonamassa wanted a modified Tubescreamer circuit. Jorge Tripps has said it’s a Tubescreamer circuit with a 500 hertz control and as far as the look Joe wanted it to have the Dumble look and Jorge thought the name was funny with mystique of Dumble amps and vintage Tubescreamers that people would see the pedal and think it’s mean to emulate a Dumble tone but it doesn’t; it’s a modified TS. Basically the Overrated Special name is a joke/play on words for people that chase a specific type of tone when it’s in the fingers and how you play
Although one of the more famous Dumble amps was inspired by Robbens tubescreamer into a bassman?
@@johnnathancordy Perhaps, not 100% on that. I just know about the Overrated Special from interviews I’ve seen with Jorge Tripps. Maybe that ts into a Bassman tone is what Bonamassa was thinking about when he contacted Jorge Tripps about making him a overdrive pedal. Jorge Tripps has said Bonamassa wanted a overdrive that worked and complimented his cranked twins.
@@NerdGasims they used that 500hz concept on the green rhino and I can confirm it's awesome!!
I love his comparison where he changes the pickup in between the pedals. Makes me wanna put down the guitar, pick up a rabbit instead and work on my sleight of hand chops.
It seems to me Mason is just shady. If Vertex comes out with a pedal I absolutely have to have, I'll buy it used.
I thought everyone knew that the tone was in the fingers. I could care less what the self proclaimed "rig doctor" says or does, I just don't care for him. I would rather watch TPS, Dan seems to be honest and knowledgeable and I think I'm a pretty good judge of character.
0:25 ...wait is that how english people make ice cubes for your drinks ? Weirdos...ahahaha ! Jake's hat is genius..."we'll see what happens to that"...ahaha
I clicked the video to hear some Vertex bitching but I heard some epic playing instead. Awesome
Love the slo..strymon has added the lower octave found in the slo in their new blue sky..???reverb is that an original feat..??? I have the vertex Ultra phonix newest version..pedal kicks ass...the market is flooded with new pedals anything unique???Pedals have held value..hopefully that continues..???/Guess what pedal I think would be worth the most to a collector with the best chance of appreciating...thats right Mason's Wah..lol..would there be one on reverb..lol..think about it.
Smashing! And lovely, tranquil playing, before I don my Niky shoes and hit the Fane Jonda videos tomorrow.
So the giant head is mad because someone used dumble branding to make a pedal that looked like one he made using dumble branding? WTF?
That Jake bloke is a genius.
I’ve gotta give it to you, the tones in the intro bit of playing through the FM3 were just striking. Maybe a good future video a comparison of that reverb up against a helix dialing in?? Would love to see your thoughts on a plethora as well at some point. Top marks on that intro. Was really captivating.
In the age of computers, cloning pedals sounds like cloning typewriters to me. 😂
Didn't Mooer catch a lawsuit for this? (Not typewriters)
@@johnnathancordy yup, Mooer copied software including the copyright notice inside the software XD. This is wholely different than copying analog pedals cus code is copyright protected while simple circuits are not. EHX won the lawsuit but they prob spent as much on lawyers.
The highest form of compliment or praise one can receive is the aesthetic copying of your copy of something no one has really heard in person. Riding on the coat tails of someone riding on the coat tails? And all three, amp, pedal and copy all sound different? Huh? What? Confusing?
Ahhhhh this is great. Keep them coming john!!!! This should become a mini series.
I recently started building clones. I am doing it so I can try out expensive pedals for far cheaper. If I don’t like them or it doesn’t work out for me, I sell them on Reverb for basically what it cost to make them.. and I LIST IT AS A CLONE. Which I think is the ethical issue
100% agree that transparency is the key!
His pricing is not ethical, very poor desing.
There's nothing wrong with either pedal and in the age of the internet, where a buyer has the ability to look up on UA-cam (for free) how any pedal can sound, there is no plausible deniability. If the question is of ethics, all one has to do is google the company to find out more about it and decide for themselves.
Anyone want to be my Boyfriend 😍💋 💝💖♥️❤️
A continuation of their gear page legacy lol.
Shout out to the gearpage for the facts btw!
Beautiful Hide and Seek quote!
I cloned it
Whoa. You don't mess around - that was fast! Impressive, to a non-UA-camr like me. Love that you included the Freekish Blues thing!
When Evidence Audio got onto Mason's channel and called BS on his "expertise" with regard to state of the art SIS cables, I knew that something was up with this guy.
I didn't realize just how far "up" it went.
However...
Paul C's remarks were bang on point. Maybe it's time to sound out some idols - get out our ethical hammers, give these idols a tap, and find out whether or not they are hollow or still ring true.
Personally? I've jettisoned Fulltone. First casualty of the Twilight of the Gear Idols.
You play beautifully. Bravo.
Why has anyone made an idol out of pedal makers to begin with? And how is Fulltone implicated in any of this?
@@KYDY I think going back there's a bit of history there somehow?
What Evidence Audio said to Mason? And how Fulltone is now part of the picture?
@@KYDY I was being a pretentious philosophy geek and referencing Nietzsche. (that's the "hollow idols" part).
Mike Fuller holds some objectionable political views. Reactionary (almost as bad as Nietzsche but he gets a pass because..well, dead). I won't put $ in Fuller's coffers.
@@Tomislav_B. Check out Mason's upload on soldered vs SIS. Evidence are in the comments section.
That's assuming the upload is still an upload...
All very good questions in the description. Idk the answers. I will get drunk today though. Merry Christmas.
I am going to go google mason now.
Hi there! I really like your videos, topics and demos are great and your playing is just amazing! Cheers! I also feel sometimes the volume of the guitar parts is louder than your speaking voice so I have to lower and raise the video volume accordingly. Again, great content! Keep up the good work! :)
PS for your info , the Alpha Drive was a pedal that started out as the Joyo Ultimate drive, but with a few component changes. I have both and they sound nothing like each other. The Alpha Drive is a much better version, but they should have had their own version made. Ceriatone had this problem years ago with the Boutique builders then complaining that he pinched all his circuits from the Gear Page etc. They really got the hump that he could make the same amp for half the price and half the delivery time.. Check out some of the Boutique guys for their prices and some are quoting 2 years delivery ..Joke !!
That's interesting about the alpha drive! I think he got run out of town didn't he?
I think Nik is pretty open and upfront about what he's cloning etc right? Again a bit of a grey area where at least it's clear what you're paying for even if it is someone else's design etc.
This non alcoholic wine has gone to my head
"alpha drive is much better" this is so relative.... I remember I bunch of people commenting about prefering the Joyo. Do you understand what the mods done on the Alpha Drive actually do?
"Freekish Gate" as it became known during the period :-)
@@pathackett3958 Heavens Gate?
@@johnnathancordy The Alpha Drive was a pretty bad example, they used a Dremel to attempt to remove the Joyo legend from the PCB, added a few parts and some goop to disguise the mods. It did actually sound good though!
Merry Christmas and thanks again for some beautiful tones! Since I jumped down the modeling rabbit hole, I’d have to say your advice on the HX Stomp and Iridium have been spot on and helped me to achieve some great tones recording. That FM3’s incredible as well. I’d love to toy around with one
Also, it’s hilarious watching Mason chase clout. Even more so Hilarious seeing him being called out for something that’s not even his to be called out for by a cheeky Englishman! Much love John! He can kind of make us Americans look bad at times!
I'm not thinking he's making you look bad sir Steven!
@@johnnathancordy I appreciate that. I can do enough of that on my own lol. Cheers
The hat is awesome
I saw Johnnathan clone a Telecaster. Shame on him for not "Playing Authentic". Forwarding video link to Mark Agnesi.
😂
Facts! Merry Christmas Jon!!
Merry Christmas and thanks for your channel.
I think you just need to stop letting Chris Eubank do your video titles.
I've tried to stop him but he does punch incredibly hard
A patent lasts 15 years. Even if you could patent a pedal, all the patents on classic circuits would be expired. Don’t take food out of your fellow builder’s mouth while they are trying to make money on their original design, but realize that ultimately, you cannot protected a circuit indefinitely, even with a patent
So glad I found this video! It was a long time ago, can't remember all the details, but I followed it a bit, and I walked away from it all feeling refreshed. Mason did some shady stuff. Guess what happened next? He admitted it, he sincerely apologized, and promised to earn back the trust he lost. And proceeded to do just that. When was the last time we have seen someone actually come clean and take responsibility like that? I applaud him! He did what everyone should do, and what far too many do not.
Wow that’s some messed up stuff I just read. Apparently Joe Bonamassa weighed in too about some “work” mason had done. Crazy stuff.
The guitar industry is a lot of snake oil in general without stuff like I just read. Shame.
Did I notice some Jon Gomm licks? Beautiful playing dude!
Las palabras se terminan cuando enchufas y tocas...... El oído manda..... Si tenes claro que queres
Merry Christmas!!
John , what type of bridge does your Squire have? Just looks different than my affinity strat. I’ve upgraded tuners and looking at bridge/pickups next
This squier was apparently a standard from 2001 - check with Johan Laur - he's the expert!
is that a Squier VM? It sounds awesome!
I think it's a squier standard from about 2001
Which pickups are in that guitar? They sound beautiful ( maybe it's just the playing? ) I can't imagine Life . . . without the Fender Stratocaster !!!
Just noticed his “Tone Secret” graphics are blatantly ripped off from the Faustone Valve Klipper, which was a homage to an old Laney preamp rather than the 5 millionth modded Tube Screamer to hit the market.
And the T drive graphic is ripping off the Trainwreck graphic when the circuit inside has nothing to do with a Trainwreck?
The ultraphonix drive is ripping off an ODS when inside it's apparently a Zendrive with a fixed resistor?
Merry Christmas, John!
And to you and yours Michal!!
I haven't followed this story, but let me see if I understand. A guy made a pedal that copies the sound of an amp, and he's mad at someone who made a pedal that copies his pedal, except that they really copied someone else's pedal, which was a pedal that copies the sound of the same amp. Or something. And we're wondering if it's ethical to make a product cheaply and sell it for a lot of money. I'd say a lot of industries do it all the time. Back in the day, it was turntable cartridges. I sold home audio, and I could get an employee price of $15 on a $100 cartridge. This was the late 80's. Employee cost on speakers were about half price. But these days we have the Internet and we're not limited to whatever the local stores stock. Someone who jacks up prices might get away with it briefly, but the market will decide, ultimately. As for the hat, you can probably get them for 50% off these days, I think.
Yeh that's pretty much close enough for jazz
Love your tone and your phrasing, very nice man!
Your playing is beautiful ☺️
I do not really trust Mason either but after listening to the Free The Tone String Slinger I do not think NUX copied it. They sound completely different but most notable are the high end and the way they break up. Free the tone has more high end than anything Vertex has.
But theres tons of high end boutique "Dumble Style" pedals out there so I am confident they didn't copy his pedal when theres just better stuff out there. Also, Free the Tone says they based the pedal design on a plexi/black face style amp pretty much anywhere you can read about it.
However, I know I wouldn't know a Dumble amp even if I heard one being played very close because gear like that is highly unacceptable to most ppl.
Hey! So Nux confirmed with me that their pedal is based on the Free the Tone String Slinger - neither the Nux not the Free The tone have anything to do with the Vertex pedal which is essentially a clean boost style circuit.
The Free The Tone String Slinger is apparently a TS based circuit - I think that's the closest thing that I've got that I'd say it is in the ballpark of - I think if anything the name String Slinger is supposed to evoke SRV rather than the Dumble SSS aesthetic (similar to what the Kingtone Duellist is going for?)
Really enjoyed the “Slo” play through. Can’t decide if it’s interesting enough to pick up as a stomp user.
Will do some proper exploration tomorrow!
@@johnnathancordy nice, hope you do a stomp reverbs comparison-ish type video as well. The Slo has been on my wishlist for a while along with the dude pedal that I might swap out for the Matthew’s effects architect v3 or the Tumnus deluxe.
@@PaulDatta the video is up now Paul
That Squier Standard combined with your amp modeler sounded soo so good!
Would you say the reverb is like the cloud mode from a strymon?
I haven't tried the cloud mode, but it sounds in that vein to me? Diffusion reverb vibe?
Good. I wait for love from you 💝💖
Nice haul of presents! (Except the hat.) I'm only vaguely familiar with the whole Vertex situation but I from what I know I tend to agree with your take on this. Lovely bit of playing at the end.
Quite a haul! I got a Keeley Dynatrem. Stoked.
I thought the NUX sounded like a slightly "fatter" TS. Definitely not a TS9 and not *quite* a TS808.
It's a cool pedal. A subtle mod to the TS circuit by Free The Tone (less gain, perhaps more headroom, and a different EQ curve than a standard TS, idk the technical stuff). Makes a good boost - like a TS does!
Caline Pure Sky. I love mine.
I use the caline pure sky to and it's a really nice transparent clean boost/drive.
I wonder what Alexander Dumble himself thinks of pedal builders' attempts at cloning his amps in pedal form. Seems to me like he should have a say in all of this as well.
Yeh or Ceriatone, Two Rock, Fuchs and some of the others?
Maybe he just doesn't care? Seems like he must be fairly set?
I'm sure he would start his argument with "well...the crystal lattice of a vaccum tube cannot be replicated by..."
@@johnnathancordy he most definitely cares and does NOT like it. He was very angry that Santana had Dumble clones in his rig along side the real ones.
Dan, do you know Alexander? His amps are not available for purchase, so why shouldn't someone make their best attempt at the Dumble amp? He started by modding Fenders after all. On top of that, Fender amps were rooted in widely available tube amp books put out by tube manufacturers. One cannot own a tone! Why should dumble have any say in the market of pedal builders? This notion is absurd.
@@DalelCampbell I did not make any claims on what is “right/wrong” just that it is well known what Mr. Dumble himself thinks about amp clones.
jonathan love your playing and a lot of your vids...first timer commenting...i know you dont dig uncle mase and i know all about the bs stuff in his past but why alter uncle mase's voice??? he don't sound like that....he does a lotta good here on youtube for pedal boarding peeps like me that wanna learn and diy...you gotta get views...i get it but im not used to seeing tmz videos from you like this one and this dont seem like your character even if you think mase is a bad dude...i still like you stuff but it seams like the lowroad when i think about it
It's pitched lower to a) highlight the irony and b) I don't know how much of someone else's video you're allowed to just play basically unaltered?
As for why make the video - I just had the Steel Singer, and knew from the small amount of time playing it that it wasn't a clean boost - so it was weird to see Mason claiming it, and even more ironic based on the history and so on.
Mostly that was the reason to try and get some balance and the actual truth out there in terms of the real information about the NUX pedal being based on the Free the Tone String Slinger - and push back on Mason saying it was a clone of his pedal - which he's now arguing that he didn't say. If nothing else, quite a few people at least know the actual origin of the circuit.
In terms of it being the low road, maybe - but there seem to be a lot of folks out there who aren't necessarily aware of the history, which isn't limited to the Axis Wah?
@@johnnathancordy I say keep on spreading the word. There are thousands that don’t know what they’re getting into with him and his bs company.
@@johnnathancordy i hear ya on the points but you gotta realize that you mite have a problemo with youtubez...i like this channel and i think you coulda said this without doing weirdo stuff with uncle mases voice...if you use someone stuff does this put your channel in jeapordy???? im thinking of ya here...anyway i dont see nothing on the nux site that says what the pedal is one way or the other...so i get why uncle mase wont know eitherway...i think he payed for his problemos in da past and made it right...i was one of the wah peeple and he did right by me...he still makes good stuff...i know you dont getalong but thats life. best to you and yours happy new years!!!!
idk I think Mason was accurate with his take, yours sounds naive and youtube-drama-alerty
Girlfriend bought you a pedal for Christmas. She's a keeper👍
Great er title, mate.
The provenance of this title has been a long running dispute between myself and Jim.
@@johnnathancordy there’s no dispute. The only way is ethics was the title of a podcast I pitched to John via text in Northernhay Gardens in 2011-12 era. The podcast was on ethics.
@@Deep_Jimpact I have never been in or near Northernhay Gardens, and the photograph of me with that young woman was clearly photoshopped.
I've never even been to pizza express
@@johnnathancordy I’ve been unable to sweat since my idea was stolen by a guitarist (1/16th jazz) in 2012
Beautiful playing mate. Your sense of humor always wrecks me also 🤜🤛
I agree that repackaging an existing product as your own creation i.e. the Freakish Blues example isn't good. In terms of cloning, what exactly is the definition? How identical to the original does the clone need to be to be considered a clone? 100%? 50%? 25? If a pedal shares a similar topology like the Vertex Steel String and Jack Orman's Booster 2.5 is that a clone? Even if the component values are different? It's an interesting discussion.
Do not want to play mind-reader or like I know what he was doing, but it sounds like in his comments this year, he is still thinking he was doing something almost acceptable (maybe it was to him until enough of the right people argued otherwise)... problem is it is is hard not to see it as exactly what he was criticizing in this week's video (incorrectly as you point out... wrong clone)... from his own channel and he himself - compare this from earlier in the year to yesterday: ua-cam.com/video/L89fyxInNJQ/v-deo.html... aside from that, it is not merely price. It is claiming credit for design too. He could have just modded the pedal he branded and like others (Keeley/JHS) it likely would have been good for him. He hid it (literally with epoxy) though and claimed it was his under that goop. So, which is worse: Copying, selling for $25 like the Pure Sky (that is the Timmy clone) and being straight about it? Or copying, relabeling as your own and doubling or tripling the price? Great playing as always and Merry Christmas JC
I agree. I think people when they are paying boutique prices are entering into a sort of agreed principle of trust about a whole bunch of stuff.
When you pay $25 for a Pure Sky, you're not under the illusion that someone has worked hard to design a circuit that brings something different to the table?
Reminds me of the Jan Ray :p
@@KYDY well exactly.
The acceptable (maybe) face of cloning - mass producing a boutique circuit and making it cheap as?
@@johnnathancordy For me, the ethical line for cloning isn't whether an OD pedal is cheap or expensive.
In a market where it's all clones of decades old circuits easily manufactured, all OD pedals should be cheap lol. But since consumers won't educate themselves to realize this, OD pedal makers use branding and marketing as differentiators to determine the price.
So since the whole boutique OD pedal market seems to me arbitrary to begin with, the ethical line for me is whether the pedal has been marketed ethically or not... and Jan Ray wasn't with its "years of research!" bit lol.
@@KYDY I feel you are hitting the nail on the head here. JHS Morning Glory is a 'take' on something old, but it is handmade, supported by the company, and it has unique features... Josh is always forthcoming on all of that. You know when buying, the extra cost is going to people who earn it. He never claims to have innovated things he has not... he also doesn't seem to simply think his name on something makes it worth more... he tries to make it worth its cost. Very different here with these situations... especially that Wah... it is the same box, circuit board, components, etc... I feel like this would be akin to putting new 'knobs' on old pots in a guitar and calling it a mod. The money is a statement of value... you are telling the consumer something is of a certain value... in these sketchy cases, it is a person saying them touching it is. Me thinks not. I bought a TC Ditto clone a while back and it failed... I regretted going cheap until I saw TC was not all that better in supporting the pedal... NUX (our company in question) was way better... it was the 2nd pedal I settled on and it is going strong. Cheap? Yep. Overseas made? Yep. Functional and supported? Yep.
I loved the demos of Masons Ultra Phonics - very nice pedal. That’s all I care about. Fair price, free international postage.
I think that one is rumoured to be a zendrive - but I think those ones do look nice
I had a The Dude from J Rockett - as well as am looking to the Ethos - so made getting a cheaper D-style drive redundant.
But, take a company like Rockett - they released the Archer (Klon clone), after they had a falling out with the original Klon guy - as Rockett were making the KTRs for him under liscense - and the deal went bad. They developed a competing product ... some could say that was a dick move ... but it’s just business.
99% of players have no clue, and love to pixel peep - it’s a form of cork sniffing that give them an air of superiority.
@@JDAfrica no doubt - but I think they were straight up about making a clone right? And it was cheaper than the real thing?
@@JDAfrica there's a big difference between "I'm going to clone this pedal in a desirable smaller enclosure cus it's business," and "I'm going to clone this pedal then tell folks I voiced it after researching 4 Dumbles, and oh btw I have no electronics background but isn't lying such good marketing."
@@KYDY I think they may have done something with a Nobels ODR which is what is making me think twice about this haha
I watched Mason's video. I know all about Mason's issue with the BBE wah he was re-labeling and selling as his own. I know he coped to what he did and even today, years later, still has a link on his web site for those wanting to be reimbursed for what he did. He paid dearly for it at the time, losing Michael Landau as a major artist. I don't pretend it was okay, but I also think people have the ability for redemption and he's pretty much met that burden. HIs video says the two pedals don't sound the same. But even this critique admits the pedals look similar. Has anyone noticed that NUX is the manufacturer of all those Amazon Basic pedals that were all over UA-cam under different names? If he's guilty of something, it might be thinking his pedal was so good it was the subject of cloning. That's no reason for the hate. Even if you simply don't like his pedals, that's no reason to hate him. Lighten up. Life is just too short.
NUX is a Chinese company with the power of the Chinese government behind it. We all know about Chinese theft of designs. Vertex is a small business. If China was producing your product or something similar for less than you can do it, you'd be upset, too.
if you thought the BBE wah debacle was his only crime, then I have a bridge to sell you my friend!