Moore Pattern Hand Scraping
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- My take on the mechanics of the Moore (crescent moon) hand scraping stroke. Also cover scraper sharpening tips and marking medium application. Thanks to Wayne Moore for "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" which inspired me roughly 40 years ago to start scraping and pursuing accuracy.
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I am "robinrenzetti" Instagram lots more content there!
"Shop Notes"* by brs_workshop
• Robin's background and experience with scraping
• Showing the basics of the crescent pattern, hand positions and motions
• Scraping with a smaller scraper in a full pattern on a test piece
• Explaining how to sharpen and lap the scraper blade, advice on radii
• Showing the sharpening wheel. These right-angle slow-speed face grinders used to be widely available from every woodworking supplier. Even Harbor Freight sold a version (sometimes called Wet/Dry grinders). However, these now seem unavailable in the U.S. If someone knows why, please share.
• Showing different scrapers and their modifications and characteristics
Anderson Scraper: andersonscrape...
It looks like McMaster has Anderson too: www.mcmaster.c...
Biax has a hand scraper: www.dapra.com/...
• Rob's home-made dobber (high spot spreader)
Dykem High-Spot Blue (McMaster): www.mcmaster.c...
(KBC Tool): www.kbctools.c...
Not sure what the red is, so no links.
[Robin here
Red is dykem red spotting ink mixed with crayola orange powder pigment and light machine oil (velocite 10). baked at a low temp to firm up to a hard shoe polish consistency.]
• Using precision ground flatstones in combination with scraping"
*Not affiliated with any manufacturer or distributor. Links for convenience.
![[UA] Eternal Fire проти NAVI | EPL Season 20 Malta](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/chvlsDygrZM/mqdefault.jpg)
my jaw was on the floor ... until I realized that was aluminum and you weren't pushing cast iron with superhuman strength. superb as always.
I thought it was LEAD ! :p * No doubt, it was to make it easier / faster to DIGITIZE for us ? ! 'Nice chip curls !
Thanks Tony, Iron does not take much more uhmph than wrought aluminum. I used aluminum because it shows up much better on video for instructional purposes. The ease of those cuts is the Samauri sharpening of the scraper blade. It would look just as effortless in iron. Most people learning attempt to scrape with a broken ukelele while I am scraping with a Stradivarius. ;-)
ATB, Robin
O hai Tony. Come here often? 😁
...and now I have to put a sign over my shop door "Broken Ukelele Machining, LTD"...
Tony, I hate to bust your bubble, but Robin's just being modest... he was actually scraping on tungsten carbide with blades made of Chuck Norris' fingernail clippings.
Yoda-level stuff, to be sure
Thank you! Complete different beast to "normal" scraping, Moore scraping is something I absolutely want to learn, but there is no powerscraper for that ;)
Stefan Gotteswinter and your next project is to design and build one 😆
The motion seems very similar to what the Biax flaker does. I suspect if one was to experiment with light pressure and different grinds, something similar could be achieved.
The powerflaker does indeed make the same movement, but the linear motion comes from the operator. Its very hard, almost impossible, to scrape a single halfmoon with it. Overall I find the powerflaker to be relatively hard to master.
I didn't find the powerflaker particularly difficult to use for its intended purpose, but I agree finish scraping would probably be very difficult. Also I don't think the angle of rotation is adjustable, so there is probably a hard limit to how small the half moons could be.
Quando você tiver o vídeo fazendo um powescraper me avise vou ficar esperando.
"I'm no authority on scraping"
-Robin Renzetti
Yeah right. Like how you're "not a machine spindle expert". I love this channel.
Your attention to detail is world-class. You're the Steel Whisperer.
He is so good, he can get it to whisper back!
I was impressed when i started watching this video. My girlfriend glanced over and said the cresent moon shapes were pretty then wanted to know if you could do full moon scraping. It was then i realized you had a long way to go. Ill be waiting for your full moon scraping video.
Thanks for sharing Mr Renzetti. Always a pleasure.
CNC machines are actually just Robin scraping all the dimensions by hand
It's like a vacation, relaxing, therapy, but never wish anybody vacation time like this )))
Your scrapers are insanely sharp! A video of making one of these scrapers from start to finish would be worth it's weight in gold! Try as I may I can't even come close to getting my scraper that sharp! Thanks for sharing your knowledge and time! Take care..
He's scraping aluminum.
Oh my goodness! I just checked out foundations of mechanical accuracy from the library! It’s really amazing stuff. The nuance and attention to detail in Moore are jaw dropping. But when working in millionths it’s what you gotta do.
A 'Very Mat Look', oh man thanks for the shout out Robin😀
Seriously, thanks for this, it's helped a lot, am in the process of refining my curling as you know and I'm happy to say I'm getting better each week. Nice to see the print medium you use along with your scraper set up. All the very best Mat
Made a dobber a year or so ago. Love using it. I found the same thing as far as dust and chip removal. Clean ever so often and your good to go. Thanks for the video Robin, I always enjoy them throughly.
Thanks for watching Steve.
ATB, Robin
"If you don't like it, don't use it", with a smile
I love it!!!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Yet another MASTERCLASS!
Most aesthetically pleasing scraping pattern of all time.
You make it look easy. Great video. YT message of new video from ROBRENZ is always appreciated.
Can’t decide if it’s more amazing that this kind of video is even made let alone free or that you sent a photo of your most focused and intense scraping as a sort of magnum opus to Tom.
Thanks, Tom and I are good friends, nothing I do is intended as a competition with him:-)
Enginerding is fun - birds of a feather ! * I've noticed that quite a few engineers tend to be sparse haired . . . likely it's from many hours HEAD SCRATCHING ! ( I do it a LOT ) " The most elegant solution to nearly every problem is also the simplest ! "
Great demonstration, Robin! I liked that you used the large scraper for that first part. You are a good teacher. Thank you. Gman
I remember asking you ages ago how you figured out the Moore technique that was not explained in Foundations... You went to the source, of course! Thank you so much for all the detailed, concise information you share.
That was a very interesting video. I am quite interested in scraping and even got a Sandvik scraper a while back, but have not yet had the chance to try it. You continue to inspire. Thanks for taking the time to educate the rest of us.
Hi Robin
I cant thank you enough, you are willing to share your expierence (what in most instances are counted in many many of hours) as a true chraftsman, and in a way that is understandable to me as a complete novice to many of the things you explain, giving me the confidence to have a go at it.
Also for taking your time to make these videos in an undoubted busy business day.
Looking forward to more "Shop Notes" videos. ATB
Love your work Robin! Very Inspiring!
Scraping is one of the most unexpected artforms. I first watched a guy scrape ways at the Okuma factory and just could not understand what he was doing. It was many years later that I started to get it.
Really fascinating to see the details come to life. Of course you make it look too easy. :-)
Wow!!!! This is not scraping, this is a painting by an artist!
Thanks for the very kind words
Beautiful work Rob. My buddies and I arranged for Richard King to come to Norway and run a course. Unfortunately, One of the guys who traveled to Norway from Scotland lost his parents in a car accident while the course was in progress. Since I was his host I missed 75% of the course while we organized emergency flights and transport to get him home quickly. I stilled learned enough to appreciate your fine work.
You Sir, are a man of similar mind! Very nice explanation and work.
Thank You Robin, i found these very helpful and a refresher course, i'm impressed that you went to Moore for tips, I like the Moore book, I looked many time their fine scraping they do. I like your inking system, always learning from your work.
Golden nuggets, as always! Thoroughly enjoyable, between the subject matter and the practical examples.
Your allusion to therapy is possibly why Tom Lipton enjoys filing as well. He may have referred to it that way once. I call filing putting Liptonite on it. Now Ill have to call scaping putting Renzenite on it, not that Ill ever do any. Still very informative and enjoyable to view. Thank you.
As with all your posts, I have to watch it multiple times because the content is so rich. Really appreciate it!
At about 1 minute in my brain when to a Dos Equis commercial.
“ I don’t alway scrape,but when I do, I use moore patterns. Stay scrappy my friends”
He is the most scrappiest man in the world!
thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.
Yet another good video, thanks! Scraping is totally a thing I would love to get my hands dirty with.
11:57 - that's exactly how I test my gravers, whether they're sharp enough or if the tip has broken off.
Thanks, and It is a very effective test!
ATB, Robin
Once again Robin an excellent video! I'm pretty sure we share a lot of similar DNA. Thank you for the feedback on Abom's surface plate. I am a relatively newcomer to the precision scraping world having only been doing it for the past 4-5 yrs. Have attended and helped in numerous scraping classes from Richard King. Your comment about preferring scraping over vacation rings sooo true. I am the owner of a number of companies and have used my shop time scraping and rebuilding equipment as therapy!! Not enough words to express the thanks I have for all of you who share your knowledge. It makes it possible for all of us to grow and learn more!! Bless you and yours....Lance
Hi Lance, could you point me toward his feedback on Abom's surface plate? I've missed it and would be interested in knowing what he had to say.
benrivenbark It was in an email, I’m working on a project for Adam as a favor/ trade. Was asking an opinion about placing a cast iron surface plate on three points/feet and where would be the best option? Nothing interesting or technical, really. But Robin is in the top 1% IMHO, so we reached out to him.
Well this explains why I haven't been able to get clean crescents LOL I had it the work turned90 degrees from the scraper ! Thanks for taking the time to do the video, its much appreciated.
As always, educational, interesting, and fascinating. Regards from NE Thailand.
Thanks Robin, I had noticed the Moore-shaped scraping some time ago but had never seen it done before. Looks at least twice as fast per unit area as I have seen scraping done before, but could be it’s just your skill and coordination. :) I like the large cutting edge vs. area of cut, it looks like it would last longer between sharpenings.
Whahahaha! Messed up!! That's an understatement! You are a very sick man!
Thx for your time Robin
Beautiful work Robin. Not even close to being messed up. I go to the shop to relax, always find something to work on.
Your skills never cease to amaze me.
Excellent video! I'm going to experiment with that dobber application. It was also recommend in the metal scraping and how to get good at it e book. I like the idea of less mess on my hands. Stephen recommend the PR 88 liquid glove and it amazing! Esp when the little ones wake up. I started messing with the Charbronell aqua wash printing inks. I really liked the black but it was darn sticky. The art place also recommend mineral spirits to thin it. I filled and old eye dropper bottle and that made it easy to get it right. The kicker was if you spread it to thin on the plate it wouldn't transfer. The blue and red we're less picky. I think the dobber might be the missing puzzle peice. Thanks for putting some visual images to all the words I have been reading.
26:20 HOLY CRAP!😵💫 I don't think I have that level of patience! 40-50 points of contact is good enough for me.
you won't know that until you do it, and give a honest chance , you might go all ocd on it in a good way
Another excellent video! Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge.
Its a technique that lets you scrape by. Thanks for the vid.
Thanks much! I've been in the metalcutting industry for nearly 30 years and this is one of those things that i've never quite understood. Great detail Thanks very much
I’ve been trying to get better at this style of scraping for a long time. After watching you do it up close and explain it finally clicked. Perfect timing too as I have multiple jobs I’m finishing and I really wanted to get this as the appearance matters as much as accuracy.
Thanks Robin
Seams we share a work schedule ! Always makes me smile when another chap us dojng similar work at the same time as me somewhere in the world ! Good luck with your scraping. All the best mat
I am rebuilding an old lathe at the moment. It's a myford clone somehow. I am doing this because I am a precise mechanic and I really want to learn more about that hand scraping. I did a few surfaces here and there while being an apprentice boy back then.
But this time, its for my very first own lathe.
This masterpiece of yours is an art of statemen!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the content!
Fantastic!!! I'd love to take a 5 day class with you! THAT would be well worth the money!! Thanks for the video.
Thank you so much, sincerely, for putting these videos out there. I learned more from this video than all others I've watched. Your video really helps people that don't or can't get to a class because so and so charges thousands of dollars to attend bla blah blah blah. It's the little things and tiny bits of info that make you so informative, example: the rolling of the wrist radially while keeping the stroke axially straight to make the half Moon shape. It's the little details that matter. Thanks again and keep it up. -James Robinson
I have scraped like this for many years but I use a 20 to 25mm blade and hold a higher angle and move the blade in circles with light pressure I am right handed and the cut is on the left but much narroer than yours a sharp blade gives a scratch free surface that needs no stoning.
I really like what you are doing, great work.
many moons ago - i traveled to the Twin Cities to take part in my first foray of hand scraping. Dennis Danich was my teacher. when i saw Robin's techniques i was quickly reminded of my time spent with Dennis as he mentored me. and here in the comments section my Minnesotan friend has taken the time to make a comparative comment to Robin's own expertise. 2 unlikely "giants" in the lofty art of mechanical accuracy & it's component efforts; finding each other. very, very cool.
@@archimedesCNC Hey Scott give me a call
dennis danich
Hi, Dennis
Ben Mikkalson here,
Going to be in the twin cities in a few weeks, I’ll look you up for breakfast 🥞.
That's interesting as it sounds very much where I have reached in learning the curling scrape.. the circular motion does seam to help with really small scrape marks whilst maintaining the crescent. Following Robins video, I have taken a little more time to improve the scape edge and dropped the handle lower and increased the edge radius, all that has helped with width of the crescent at its widest and deepest point. Plenty still to learn though. Thanks for commenting here it has helped me. All the best Mat
Really well done, easier to see it done by someone knowledgeable, my hands won't keep up with this more than 10 minutes without needing Advil... Got a few good pointers on other things like refining the sharp edges of a carbide.
Thanks for sharing, Pierre
I think any demonstration anyone can do on youtube is a condensed book of the whole story, but any tale from flatsville is good
well thats a very pretty pattern Robin. thanks for sharing that, was good watching as always!
For those who have read Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy there's another fine work you need to read. Handbook of Polishing and Lapping (Ioan D. Marinescu,
Eckart Uhlmann, Toshiro K. Doi). PDF is available if you google it ;) But I warn you - after reading you might want to start buying old HDDs and taking them apart for the plates to aid you in some really perverse submicron lapping of various metal workshop items :)
Not only are videos from guys like Robin worth their weight in gold, but the interesting and skillful commenters with rare knowledge like this are too.
I can't find a pdf of that anywhere...and its a 200$ book. I have both books from Moore directly, maybe I just go buy this.
Amazing how I spent decades trying to find some of this what used to be incredibly esoteric information, now becoming possible to find quickly if you follow the right rabbit holes. I find lots of quality rabbit holes watching Robin and Steffan's vids.
Robin, fantastic skill and great information as usual. Thank You!
Awesome info. Can't believe I've only just started watching your channel. Love this stuff 👍👍
You're a national treasure Robin.
~"There are even variations among people who work at Moore". Excellent observation and statement. Pretty much anyone who embarks upon a task wants to do it in the best manner or for the best results. The important thing is understanding that often times there is more than one way to achieve an excellent result. I like to point out that there are high wing aircraft and low wing aircraft and both types fly. Flying or scraping for accuracy is the objective. Once off the ground or achieving accuracy then technique will follow that's most conducive with comfort. After comfort you'll develop the articulation to make the necessary changes that may be required for effectiveness (or the ability to vary a particular style as you may choose to do). Or you could just develop a bad technique that you'll never be able to drop 😀
It has been 2 months.... come on... I am addicted. I have had to go to instagram to see you.
Your videos are always excellent and this one is no exception! I'm not a real machinist but a mechanic who has used machine tools as a means to an end for fifty years. The rebuilding of the machine tools interests me because I have old machines that could be improved if I would apply some of the techniques shown in your videos. Thank you very much for taking time to share your knowledge.
You inspired me to make a flat rock ( in progress ), now I am scraping a piece of nice cast iron with an old wood chisel with a reshaped cutting edge. For now it is part of my shop practice.
That is awesome!
I'll let you know when I get up to high speed high accuracy.
@@jamescad9978 Be patient :-)
I've watched a lot of scraping videos but this is the sharpest scraper I've ever seen. Interesting about a not so fine finish on the end.
Thank you explaining your tools, how to make it and the information for scaping
Hi Robin, your mastery of work bear strong philosophical connotations to words the development of the entire human race which could only be determined by a level of “Scraping off “ big and small errors in all facets of life, esquire your skill is not at all limited to metal surfaces.
Thanks for the kind works.
As always I enjoyed Robin's tip.
That deserves a big thanks and a subscription. I learned a lot. Thank you!
That is a fantastic treatise! I will definitely watch a lot more times.
You make this and pretty much every thing you do look so easy. Thank you for sharing your amazing skills .
insanely beautiful work. Love your work
Thank you very much!
You Sir, are a mad men, in the best of the ways, that 100 ppi are a statement that you are no conform to mediocracy and for that it's what admirat from you.
Keep safe in the shop and have a nice time.
Quite enlightened after this Robyn this is a subject hard to explain in text as well as video. You did a great job of it
By the way Robyn I have seen pattern for a 7 in surface plate I plan to use to do the 3 plate method with but if there's interest I can certainly cast more .
Thanks but I have plenty. BTW you only need 2 plates and a repeatometer to do the 3 plate method.
@@ROBRENZ if I had on of those lol was was thinking they might be handy for other viewers small not a fortune to ship look nice to Emma worked one up came out very nice
Are they milled and ready to scrape so that people without any other equipment could scrape them? If so and you want me to I will mention their availability on my next Attention to detail video.
Thanks for the video Robin. I will have to shoot this to a good friend (Daryl Smith) to watch. He told me he loves scraping and does it almost everyday. He scraped the 8" Suburban angle plates we show in our first video.
Steve
Thanks for watching Steve.
ATB, Robin
Great video. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
If the scarper you used had a smaller radius profile, ie not so flat a radius, you will automatically have shorter tails on your scollops. The crescent will become more defined as well. It is a technique and does take a lot of practice to get it right. The secret to scarping, is the low point needs to allow flow , so the oil or lube can capillary to the flat surface, and then those micro reservoirs be replenished.
Amazing work Robin... another rabbit hole to fall in !!! thanks for the video ! Joe
Well done Robin - well developed and shared.
_Dan_
The straight scraping at the end absolutely dumbfounded me.
Looks like a school of striped bass on a Lowrance graph to me 😆 nice work!
Thanks for a great instructional video Robin
Paul
This was very helpful. Thank you so much for the information you have shared. I'm scraping in a shop-built Gingery metal shaper.
I always enjoy learning from your presentation. Even on thing I already know a fresh approach.
Thank you Robin
I appreciate that!
Scraping is therapy. I was mildly paralyzed in 1986, it took me several years to adjust.
The best therapy for me was refitting and scraping a big ugly ancient LeBlond lathe to regain hand eye coordination. It is like meditation, your mind shifts to another level while your hands do the work.
Well said!
Incredible again Robin. Thank you👍👌🇦🇺
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for the great video! The insight and knowledge you share is incredible!
IT's addictive. Thanks Robin
I lean more in a few minutes of your videos than in watching hours of others. I am wanting to flake for oil pockets not for level. Your first, or first two, passes look like what I want. I need to build a carbide lapping/sharpening grinder. Thanks for the video Rob.
One of the best vids i have ever seen good explanation... I love scraping such a wonderful precise technique the more you do it the better you get but some dudes like rob know it that good they need short time to get into it again.. 👍
I use the same Sandvik...
Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge, I keep getting closer and closer to a little bit of scraping knowledge. Picked up a copy of machine tool rebuilding at a yard sale, been reading that, now combining that with your vid, and watching the Richard king series, maybe I can screw up something lol.
Anyways thanks again as always for sharing your wisdom.
Fascinating and instructive - thanks for making this video.
Man you make it look far too easy! Gets me all amped up for it until I start and realise I'm shit at it 😆
very nice Robin learn something new every time Thank you
Your the best Robin! Been waiting for this vid! Thx
edit: That was a great vid Robin. Ever since I saw your 4th of July Insta post I've been experimenting with chamois dobbers and the evaporative method w/ red lead and and black mortar coloring and I have to agree with you, it works great. Funny I've been using a wire and hot melt to attach chamois also but my dobbers are much more rudimentary, I'm going to have to turn some nice ones now. lol. Really appreciate all you share with us. I'm sure you've got more than enough vid ideas but I know you've talked about having some rebuilding vids in the can and it would be great to see your thought process for scraping to a geometry as that is another topic with little content on YT. What material was that you were demonstrating on?
Another great video. Your Instagram is on point to bad it takes so long to make a UA-cam video because im sure all of us would love more videos, but we all understand the effort it taks so thank you for a supremely informative videos.
Still haven't finished my precision stones, now I need to learn to scrape? :) Very enjoyable.
Quote of the year .. "not the end all, be all" I think you will have a hard time convincing us of that! Wonderful show Robin! It's living proof, that anyone can get in to metalworking, for as little as a hundred bucks, and only an apart for work area!
What type of metal were you scraping, and what type works best for practice?
Thanks Jim, that is aluminum because it scrapes much like iron and shows up really well on video. It is a great practice material because it will wear your scraper less. And it takes a little less uhmph so it is easier to learn.
That's really awesome! I build lathe's since 30 years and scrappet a lot. But your performance is awesome!! Respect!!
Very interesting and informative as expected from your videos. Thanks for your time !
This a great video. There some areas I would like to see - 1) Electric scraper use and comparison, 2) flat surface resolution to normal or parallel sides. And...... many thanks for posting this level of instruction.
Well done Robin
Thanks Robin!
Bravo, Robin!! Great video.