How Important Is a Locking Diff When Off-Roading?
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- ( www.TFLtruck.com ) In this episode we try to show how much a locking differential increases a vehicles off-road ability to go steep and deep.
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wasted 8 minutes and 51 seconds of my life when I'm trying to actually learn something....
Me too
You learned that if the tires on both sides of an axle have traction a differential locker doesn't help anything.
This was a Tremendously powerful DISPLAY of manpower!
I appreciate the comment I saved myself the time except for 15 seconds LOL
Dangit...I know better...
Always read the comments first..
I was really bummed out when I realized my new 4x4 truck didn't have a locking differential which I had assumed it did but this video made me feel better like it's not that crucial; certainly not for anything I'll ever do. Thanks.
you didnt check that before buying???
I had the same thought and like you, I can’t see an advantage, although it might help slightly in some circumstances, but I doubt it..
I recently travelled through deep snow on a forest road and the locking rear end made absolutely no difference on my Tacoma. The traction control took care of everything.
My 4wd 2015 F150 rear locker works great in very twisted off kilter rolly eroded dirt trails. I've used it in these unique situations when come to a stop, wheels spinning, can't proceed, about to dig in and get stuck, then pull the locker switch on, and it does make a difference. Rolls me right out, then turn locker right back off. It works. Only in certain specific situations.
Thanks for posting all your videos guys. Its been a pleasure following you all. Great stuff!
This video is the first I remember ever seeing of you guys, and I've been following you ever since. Unfortunately there haven't been that many good off roaders for you guys to test the past few years during this crossover trend the auto makers are in. But you guys have been keeping it interesting and testing whatever is available. You've been doing a good job.
Truck needs to be flexed to show how a rear locker is beneficial. Gold mine hill didn't have enough of a hole to flex the mighty raptors suspension enough to lift a tire.
I look forward to your videos! I'm a subscriber for sure!
The raptor (or any other modern truck) might not be the most ideal platform to demonstrate locking diff vs open as most modern traction control systems are set up to differential brake the spinning wheel (ie what Toyota calls ATRAC) regardless of whether you have the TC on or off. Especially in this case of the Raptor's Torsen front diff being aided by that system, it makes this a tough test as that raptor is likely going to be sending power more or less to all 4 wheels anyway via these systems. The torsen front diff in the Gen 1 Raptor I believe has a bias ratio of 2.5:1 with no preload, meaning the differential can transfer 2.5 times the spinning wheel's torque to the gripping wheel. This is why a torsen diff without the electronic aids usually doesn't do much if you have a front wheel completely in the air (2.5 times 0 is 0) and they behave like they are open. This is why the brake limited slip function of the Raptor's traction control will apply brakes to that spinning wheel to send 2.5 times the torque of whatever the brakes are resisting to the other wheel.
Easiest way to test a rear locking differential would have been to do a test on a diagonal ditch which would make one front wheel and one rear wheel come off the ground....that’s how gm shows the performance of its G80 locker
I feel like i just watched Billy Madison give a speech. I am dumber as a result.
I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul
I hate to be that guy...but none of these tests really proved anything though...time for a redo?
Proof is an overused concept. They collected evidence to support the notion that a locking diff isn't necessary in these scenarios, which I think is valuable.
Just proved the best truck does not need more than what it comes with from the factory
I’ve been scouring UA-cam trying to find a good example of the front torsen in action. This is actually the best example out there, even if it wasn’t the intention of the video.
This test should've been done with two identical 2WD trucks, one with a locker and the other without. Your compromising the true results of a locker with the front axle of the Raptor. Lockers at both ends of a LWB 4x4 vehicle, like on a Power Wagon is what serious off-roading is all about. In my line of work, this is why I drive and own 3 Power Wagons, just wish the newer ones came with a dually and a 8 foot bed.
Lmao!!! This is the best.... great attempt guys! Proved absolutely SQUAT but it was fun to watch 😜
So true, we proved nothing but had fun doing it.
If anything it proved the worth of a torsen in the front
They locked it when it was locked the first time also lol. Momentum is your friend,,, or enemy lol
How is That LAMO Fiat Ram working out? lol
They proved that demanding facts only makes the fun less enjoyable.
Locking diff is huge!!! Ive seen jeeps fail at a muddy hill and a locking diff jeep pass it right after.
Northern Rider I don't understand why they do these tests it's all common sense just like off road tires make it easier when you're off roading
You sit it. It was a Jeep.
But its not, just something you can add later to your car if you need it. Its not going to change a outcome drastically. 4x4 is still 4x4, locking or not.
@@willb1132 I don't have any lockers in my Jeep sport and so far I haven't needed it when I'm wheeling with rubicons that have them. I jut have to use a bit more speed at times and make sure I have my seatbelt on lol.
@@c4onmylip If it's a 4WD JK or JL, it has BrakeLock, which is 4-wheel TCS. It tries to vector torque to wheels with traction. It's more capable than older Jeeps with open diffs. It's not quite as good as true lockers offroad though.
You may also have an LSD.
This video actually proved that tires matter and a lsd in the front probably has a big impact on off roading.
I use my rear locker when I have to cross steep fine dirt mounds, a little momentum plus the locker keeps me moving to make it.
That was a great video guys appreciate it it makes me feel better for not having slip differential 👍
Guys, I really enjoy your videos, keep them coming. A couple of comments on this video. I live on the Gulf Coast and have a 2012 F150, 4x4, off-road package, with locking differential, which I run on the beach all the time. I conducted a similar experiment on the sand a while back. What I found was that my rear differential acted as a limited slip differential when I did not have the locker engaged. No matter what I tried to do to make the rear diff slip, I could not, both wheels were pulling, without having to turn on the locker in the diff. In hard pack sand, I could make a sharp turn, with the locker OFF, there was no rear wheel hop, but when I engaged the locker, there was pronounced wheel hop during the turn.
My conclusion is that the differential in MY truck acts as a limited slip when the locker is not engaged and as a locked differential when the locker is engaged. I say MY truck, as I can’t positively say in ALL Ford trucks with locking diff.
A comment about your video, which seems to corroborate my comments above. In the last part, when you are trying to climb the hill, with the locker OFF, I see Tire spin in the video and BOTH tires seem to be spinning at the same time......thus indicating the diff might be acting as a limited slip diff. That’s probably why the truck was doing as well with the diff unlocked as locked......mystery solved???
A comment about front limited spin diffs. A long, long time ago, I had a Ford Bronco, with a limited slip front axle. I liked to run on the beach, it was a special factory order. I suppose it was a regular and not a Torsen diff. It was wonderful running in sand, it always had both tires digging. But it was a DISASTER in ice, first (and only) time I engaged 4 wheel drive in ice, going down the highway, the front wheels started “hunting” for traction, the truck started fishtailing horribly, no way to correct it, and we ended up doing 360’s down the road. We were lucky, after two revolutions, we ended on the side of the road, with the wheels pointing down. No more limited slip for me in the front axle....never...
Can’t wait to see you test the new F 150 with the Diesel engine.
I have 115,000 miles on my F150 with the Ecoboost, zero problems, none. I love this engine. I pull a 6000# travel trailer with it and it is amazing to me how well it pulls, on the Gulf Coast AND in the mountains.
I love this video!! I like how you guys didn’t try too hard to prove something or come up with some bullshit to attempt to make an argument valid. Great job and keep em going!
What about traction control? They didn't mention if they had traction control on. If it was on, it would act like a LSD, and apply break force to the slipping wheel to send the torque to the other side.
A friend that lives near Owensboro Kentucky, bought a 2wd F150 with locking rear Differential and swears if you don’t off road and occasionally fight slippery roads that’s all you really need. I got the 4wd and hate to admit I’m fine till I slide, then I panic, probably worse thing you can do.
I found that the locking diff in my 2012 F-150 was most useful on a slippery boat ramp pulling the boat out of the water. 2wd with the diff locked would never slip probably due to the heavy tongue weight.
Why don't you use a XLT. Seems like you always using a Raptor. How about using a pickup most people drive.
Rams don’t have locking diffs in their 4X4’s and I was disappointed when I bought mine but after watching this I feel much better
Power Wagon.
I want to know more about the 3D print.
AT about the 7 minute mark is an excellent example of what not to do. Please stay on the trail people!
You -proofed- proved how to have fun with the raptor. That! Is an A+ in my book! (Here you go puerco. Happy?!)
Crocodine Huizar English little kid English.....
Christofer Ranucci I'm old enough to have dated you mom. ( but with bad orthography.)
Great video guys. Proof that sometimes catching the "see I was right!" footage is tough. Keep making fantastic videos and stay safe on the trails. Scott
If you can't afford a car with one and it's got a decent 4x4 with no locking diff, left foot break, with a steady right foot gas. With proper tires and clearance you get through anything on just a basic 4x4. That's the truth.
Truck started flatlining at 4:18 😂😌
Damn.... fall looks beautiful in Colorado
Won't be beautiful for long with so many people moving here
Do you need lockers/LSDs? It can depend on several factors. I offroaded an open-diffed 2.5L/5spd YJ for several years. Even with 30-31" tires and stock-height suspension, it would go a lot of places.
If you have little articulation, like with an FIS Hummer or car, traction diffs can make a HUGE difference for rockcrawling or climbing. If you don't have TCS, traction diffs can make a HUGE difference in deep mud or snow.
These days, most decent offroaders have TCS AND good articulation. Look at the Wrangler JL and the new Bronco. Look at the 4Runner and Landcruiser. Base models often still have open diffs, but can still offroad. Then lunchbox lockers and aggressive tires can make even these base models ridiculously capable offroad.
Some good info can still be found in this video. Like a locking rear diff not being important for the average truck owner and decent All Terrain tires are good insurance if you go on any easy to intermediate dirt trails.
This was actually great because I'm looking at getting a new frontier but hate all the bs in the pro4x. I was worried I was going to miss the diff. Watching this and knowing how I drive, I'm just going use Nathan power. I won't be rock climbing terrible but ill be seeing a lot of snow. The frontier SV should do just fine.
Because of this channel I bought a 2011 Raptor Hennessey 475, and if you guys need another Raptor hit me up, says the guy who talked to you at hobbytown checking out this Blue Raptor getting some input.. LOL
Most of us know this but I figured I add to it....when one wheel comes off the ground...without the locker, the truck is going to spin the lighter wheel (wheel that isn't holding up any weight of the truck). Without the locker only one side (the side in the air) will spin. A great example would be to leave it in 2H and lock the diff on the back and put one side under a heavy load. I had a TRD Prerunner for 10 years with just the locking Diff and it made a huge difference just being able to lock the back up especially where terrain is not even . Now I have a 4x4 F150 and there was no way it wasn't coming without a locker. Remember wheel spin on tire with no weight is where you need the locker.
I'm a big fan of rear locking diff. You don't always need it but when you do, it makes a yuge difference.
You guys should do RWD with a locker or LSD
VS.
4x4 with no lockers.
Yes, use the Toyota TRD PRO
To put that 29 degrees of incline into perspective, an airliner on a normal takeoff usually only rotates to about 10 degrees nose up and climbs out at about 20. That is a wicked hill lol
I love these off road videos! As a top level TFL supporter on Patreon, I'd even be willing to double that if I could get a daily TFL truck video.... You guys are the best on UA-cam.
RAM TRUCKS Dude, seriously?! I can't say that I'm a huge fan of these guys and would be willing to support more, if possible? Thank you for taking the time out of your day to come down from your cloud of omnipotence and bless me with your sacred opinion. I'm forever humbled, oh great one.
Thanks for supporting us on Patreon. We really appreciate it and we are taking your comment to heart. Stay tuned for more off-road videos....at least as soon as we can produce them.
Metalbass79 Ignore the asshat.
A looking diff and two wheel drive is a great combination.
Roman, the kind of guy who would lock front and rear even when waiting for his coffee at Starbucks Drive-Thru. Seriously guys, there are great videos out there why lockers make an impact. Especially for older 4x4s with no traction control and/or little articulation. With a Raptor one could tackle a lot w/o engaging the rear locker. Just follow the advise from Dan Micks from Moab: Go slow, but steady. Here is a great video btw I found useful about the difference of lockers ua-cam.com/video/4U1SLSV9wNk/v-deo.html. Keep up the great work TFL other than that.
Found the Doug DeMuro fan
Hi Guys,
Avid watcher of your content and veteran who drove similar terrain in Afghan in either Ranger trucks or Hilux’s. Yes they are light trucks, however, in my humble opinion to state airing down is a non factor in traction off road is a huge understand to your non four wheel drive viewers. As I also would like to comment that I have lived in every continent and traveled in remote areas in all. Lowering air pressure will truly make a huge difference and give a more accurate account of LRD will work off road. Most of your tire slip can be attributed to high tire pressure vs lack of a LRD. If you lower the tire pressure, then you would see considerable traction control gains. In the beginning of my career 2001 we pretty much traveled in modest trucks in fairly stock condition. Towards the end thanks to the popularity of Overlanding/Off-roading we traveled in fully kitted/modes vehicles with all of the latest tech by 2016. In closing, I believe that most stock vehicles aired down would have made it over that hill with a decent driver like you all behind the wheel. I, however, do agree the differential locker does provide significant capability increases in all off road vehicles.
I know it sounds ridiculous, but I would love to see the e locker in 2wd. Im tired of buying 4wd work trucks and seldom using the 4wd. We only use it for 100ft at the dump ,etc. The E locker is a much cheaper option.
Smart
I'm just impressed that the raptor didn't start on Fire
In that situation, the locking differential made no difference. That is what was proved.
At 1:54 "For the sake of this real world test, I'm going to put it in 4LO not 4HI, to get rid of the momentum equation. [Switches it to 4HI] " 🤣🤣🤣
I don't know how truly effective this test is, I think that most new vehicles with locking differentials function as a very competent limited slip diff when unlocked. I could be wrong regarding the ford, but I would still like to see a completely open differential to have a comparison for your next video.
Bet you wish that Centre side step was a power step right about 4:14
My van gets me places that ive seen some 4x4s get stuck. Its rwd, but has a locking diff, appears to be better than 4wd with open difs.
So we proved that all the hype about lockers doesn't matter on a plain dirt surface and if you get extreme enough to start lifting wheels you might need lockers but should be prepared to spend money on repairs...
I'm not here to whine about the video I'm just jealous of that Raptor!
My push button locking differential has gotten me unstuck and over boulders lots it's a must have
The torsen differential model was definitely the best part of the video
All new 4x4 trucks should have rear locker differential and front limit slip differential
You may not want an automatic traction diff on a slick crowned/slanted surface, especially up front.
It just proves that how brain and toes can work together better than anything else.
You guys don't seem to realize that the torsen front diff did such a good job that you didnt need the rear locker.
Repeat the third test in 2wd open and then again with 2wd lock.
Good video by the way!
Thank you, Adolfo.
Yes
God damn looking back at this now I can see that Roman aged 30 years instead of 3
Whats interesting is that its clear to me at 2:17 that the front torsen is working great to transfer torque. Slow it down to 25% and you can see it. Either that or the ESP/traction control is kicking in making this really hard to test...or both.
You truly only need a rear locker 99.99% I tend to try to do obstacles with out lockers most of the time. I usually only need my rear locker to do anything that can't do without. I only needed the front once to help me out of a rock garden, but glad I had it.
How come both rear wheels were spinning even without the real diff locked?
4x4.
The rear end is limited slip, and they were pretty flat, like 70/30 at an angle seems the tire you need to spin never spins so your stuck that's where the lockers come in, when you have them in the front and back you can climb a tree .) Back would still help though,
@@lbriant48 its not limited slip while unlocked
@@Blue_Flame_Raptor limited slip will sometimes turn both sometimes turn one, lockers lock them solid
@@lbriant48 no shit, Sherlock
Agree with others; to display what a locker can do, get on a slippery slope. Ice, mud, wet pasture and about 25 to 30 degree slope. On the run where you bottomed on hard parts, your path selection was wanting for sure.
You won't get up loose and steep without a little momentum whether you are locked or not. In fact, you would have seen about the same results in the last test if you were in 2wd. Once you begin fighting gravity on a loose surface, it's over. Your lockers will come in handy if you're in deep sand or have wheels in the air over an obstacle. The rear also comes in handy on steep descents in vehicles that don't have a cheater/assist button. These newfangled trucks do so much of the work for you that a lot of the skill it used to take to get over certain types of obstacles isn't as important as it once was.
Yup. The modern nannies almost make it too easy these days.
In a JK or JL Rubicon, even when the diffs are "unlocked", they're still LSDs, AND the 4WD JK/JL BrakeLock standard feature is still vectoring torque. The Rubicon front anti-swaybar disconnects from inside the cab too.
It's a far cry from offroading in a stock 30"-tired CJ or YJ, but even those can be ridiculously capable offroad with just disconnected bars, and even moreso by adding some cheap lunchbox lockers. Many were also offered with LSDs.
Great video. Love these off road videos. Keep them coming.
Can you provide information on your winch setup, I have 2014 Raptor and I like your set up?
I think what we need is a raptor vs manual beater econocar(old Civic,focus,spectra etc) off-road. I'll drive the econocar. Can you keep up?
Everytime Ive been stuck in 2wd (open dif) and I lock the rear end Im still stuck. only difference is 2 wheels are spinning in the mud instead of one. Kinda disappointed when this has happened to me multiple times. I even think that on mud it does more harm than good. Only good in straight ahways. You do turns with the rear locked in light mud/mud and it just kicks up dirt and cakes up the grips on the tires, making my tires (bald). now whenever i need traction i go straight to 4wd and forget the lockers.
So in a mud implication you would say four wheel drive is better than 2-wheel drive with a locker
They proved that the Raptor isn't very impressive at off roading. And yes, a locker is absolutely necessary if you are gonna do any serious wheeling.
Ryno5150 the raptor is made more for prerunner type off-roading. If it was a rock crawler it would be a Jeep. Something that was more capable in a setting like Moab that was also factory built, street legal, viable as a daily driver, and also a full size truck with creature comforts would be an expensive venture with a limited market due to cost. Jeeps are better for extreme terrain courses because they arent as big, low, heavy, and stiff as a raptor. They have more flexibility, better angles of approach and decent, and solid front and rear axles. The raptor really doesn't even have to be 4x4 for the type of driving it's made for. It could get away with rear wheel drive only like many of the racing trucks it mimics. It's made to have good suspension travel and race down roads that would kill a Camry. A different tool is needed for every job.
Ryno5150 The raptor isn't for wheeling dumbass it's a Prerunner/Baja type of truck.
I'm almost convinced my 99 Tacoma prerunner can do better than a Raptor at both
power wagon
the raptor is AWD 4WD 4WL
hummer H1 would be sweet or dodge ram power wagon
Great stuff. This is becoming nearly as good as Top Gear.
For serious offroading its very important. But for you average Joe who likes to do a little offroading its really not necessary.
Hi can anyone answer How speedy can you go in 4 high with central diff lock and without locking? I know in 4 Low with locking diff we can do max 20km..correct me of I'm wrong please and Thanks
yep... you need to find a bigger hole. I'm impressed with the Raptor. Also didn't realize it had a limited slip front axle.
I yanked my side steps once I realized that they just bolt to the body panels. The issue is that the aluminum body panel is going to bend before a heavy stamped steel step (which has a TON of form rigidity) which is a much worse problem than a messed up step.
Sprits some rustolium where you got the paint off those side steps... unless those side steps were aluminum on these first gen raptors.
On the TRD OR Tacomas, do you want to have the rear dif locked while using CRAWL control?
0:58 Torsen Differentials was something new starting on the 2012 SVT Raptors. Anyhow, locking diffs are very important, as you say, a standard 4WD is like two-2 wheel drives. I don't always need my rear locker, not really into rock climbing with a Raptor but it has come in handy at times.
Torsens have been around for decades. Military Hummers use them.
I have always called the “nathan method” the “Company Vehicle Method” or the “Rental Car Method”…😂
But you didn’t try that hill with more throttle with out locking diff so you can still prove nothing
Same momentum with open diff would have done the same. Still wondering why you haven't done it.
I might have to try a torsen diff for a z71 on the front since the front is open and not lock that way you don't bind it while in two high on the street in turns/cornering but will catch slippage during off roading while engagement in 4wd. I hope this helps.
Doesn't the advanced Trac in the f150 help transfer power to the wheel with less traction by applying the brakes somehow making it act as a limited slip diff? I know I read it somewhere back when the 11's came out.
Also, attempting it in 2wd would help show the difference between the 2 a little clearer. All you need is a small ditch at an angle.
Are you supposed to put the raptor in 4x4 every time you off road or do you leave it in 2 wheel when ur going fast off road? Thanks.
Truck already has limited slip in rear so i would take a special situation to make a difference. Its still good to have though. I turn mine on to drive in wet grass when driving in straight line. Any slip will tear up grass.
How you guys achieve that? There is a point in the differential change, but how did you manage not to prove it????
Guys,,,,, when your in a situation where damage can or could be done you use both feet. One on the brake one on the gas. You will soon learn how to use both feet to keep full control when crawling over possible damaging obstacles....
Have a question about the tow hooks on the trailer hitch frame. Is that a custom set-up or did you purchase the truck with them already welded on?
Roman is so scary. Andre is a go getter
Yeah, I don't think you proved anything you were out to prove but you did prove the Raptor is an excellent 4x4. All 4 tires were digging all the time whether they were locked or not.
Try when rock crawling, this is an example of a resource used in the wrong scenario. Momentum through mud, or no momentum when rock crawling. Amplify this with a front and it's nearly unstoppable *with obvious limits* This up hill test with more articulation to the suspension would show immensely greater results. A locker is only beneficial when pressure on a wheel differs from the wheel adjacent to it.
Locking diffs are best for off-camber turns or rock crawling. Looks like Roman should get some rock sliders soon!
If the Raptor can make it up Gold Mine Hill without a locked differential, then I don’t need it on a street truck driving in the snow
My Silverao has the Eaton G80 locker. It's not very strong and if it breaks it's still fine to drive. GM has been using that locker since 1971.
Locking is nice to have but depends on the type of wheeling you generally are doing too. I know I will get slammed for this but I am partial to a mechanical lsd/posi not the newer brake actuated ones in some newer vehicles. A lot of time the locking diff can also only be engaged in 4low. Still a very nice feature to have especially in CO!
I seen your video on the 2019 Tundra trd pro... The Tundra trd pro has no locking differential.. How is the truck gonna move if the truck gets stuck???
How important is a locking differential when it’s a blizzard and you are on s very steep hill in a residential area in a major city?
So do you not want the front diff to be locked? My truck has open front and rear diffs. I wanna go off-road but I wanna get a lsd for the rear. Is lsd for the front a thing? Or is it a bad thing? New too this 4wd stuff any help is appreciated
On a steering axle, a selectable locker that is open when unlocked would be best. Slick crowned/slanted surfaces can be dangerous with traction diffs. ARB and Ox Lockers can be expensive though.
Simple way to show differential
In use is drive through a ditch at an angle...super easy test and u should be able to find a ditch pretty much anywhere!a truck with no rear locker will absoultly not be able to make it through,the one with a locker will drive right through!
Can you guys do a off road video with 4 vehicles? One with only Rear diff lock only , one with front diff lock and rear , center differential lock
3gen 4runners have center diff lock
Power wagon , ZR2 , jeep have both front and rear would be a great video to show the difference