Hips Over Heels: Quick Cue To Fix Your Body Position - Practice Like a Pro #61
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2023
- THIS EPISODE:
Today we're giving you a quick cue to fix your body position. This applies to nearly all techniques in riding, including cornering, coasting, undulating terrain, passive & active pumping, rock gardens, and most jumping scenarios.
Often, just having your knees over your toes isn't enough. The true test of being balanced is having your hips over your heels!
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Following his own Pro Downhill mountain bike racing career, Simon Lawton (Owner and Founder) has spent the last 25 years analyzing the top riders in the world to understand the tiniest details that contribute to their greatest successes, and also any weaknesses that are holding them back. With an exceptional understanding of kinesiology, Simon has developed his own teaching curriculum that explains the incredible relationship between human and machine. He has trained top pro mountain bike racers across the world, and his foundational techniques apply equally to beginner riders. His on-bike drills allow you to break down complex skills on the bike and develop correct techniques.
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Linnea has been racing locally in the pro category, but prior to Fluidride, she had almost no formal training and was held back by major gaps in her technique. While she was able to carry speed well on straight downhills and high-bermed turns, she lacked foundational cornering skills and was timid in the air. In Feb 2020, she met up with Fluidride to help with a filming trip in Baja, and was fascinated by Simon's teaching methods. Wanting to be part of this mission, she left her career in healthcare in July 2020 to officially join the Fluidride team as COO. We started filming this series to document her journey of cleaning up bad habits, adding new skills to her toolkit, and chasing her dream of riding with style.
Linnea is riding an Evil Following V3! www.evil-bikes.com/collection... - Спорт
Without doubt the most significant thing I learnt from Fluidride. As you progress, which you actually can do in the wrong position, you aren't aware that you are too often in what I would call an unnecessarily aggressive 'attack position' i.e. the weight too far back from the BB for no reason. Getting centred literally improved my cornering instantly, reduces fatigue in general and once ingrained so it's what you do naturally, you feel so much more composed on the bike. It's also a great way of getting the right 'reach' in a bike too. I ride much bigger bikes now and the combination of the correct body position with the right amount of 'space' in the cockpit has moved my riding off the plateau I had been on for a long time
Some good points on the fit and reach Oliver. Thanks for that!
Yep! I used to be waaay too far back, thinking that I was doing it "right", but more often than not still feeling unbalanced and often getting bucked forward, which made me move even farther back, thinking that would fix things. Taking Fluidride classes and hearing the knees-over-toes (and now hips-over-heels) made a huge difference for me. At first it felt "wrong" (having been used to being so far back), but man, I've improved a lot over the last year just from this advice alone. Now, especially when things get challenging, I hear Simon's advice of "knees forward!" in my head, and I can handle those things way better than I could in the past.
@@patrick764 Yeah, totally agree. It feels weird at first but when you slow everything down and concentrate on getting it right and repeating until it becomes the 'norm' you really do improve, especially cornering
Thanks for the video, I just finished watching the last 3 years worth of videos and have been trying to apply your techniques and they work great. My cornering has become so much more stable and I even managed to catch a wash out the other day because I was practicing your bike positions technique. Thank you again. When I buy something that I can record myself with it will be time for a course I think.
Awesome. Thanks so much for the kind words.
Super helpful, thanks guys!!
Another great video Simon. I’ve noticed how much more relaxed your body feels when riding with hips over heels. Suddenly makes you feel much more in control when jumping, cornering, etc.
For sure, and is much less tiring as you are stacked up a bit better than if you are standing with your hips back too far.
watched this yesterday, and tried it today.... game changer ... thank you
Excellent! Love that it's helping!! -Simon
Super video :) Very well explained and broken out! Hope your advices on body position will help improving my jumping technique. Keep up the great work you are doing with the channel! You guys are awesome
Thanks so much. Yes, this should really help with jumping - almost more than any one other thing on the bike, since compression going through the legs is so central to that technique!
Watched this vid a few times, with practice in-between.... I'm an older (56) rider, with only 5 years of recent riding experience (prior was in my teens, mostly road, some bmx). I have to say, this tip has unlocked a lot for me. I was I knees over toes rider, but my butt was always in the "backseat". Hips over ankles helps me stay centered on the bike. Also makes the "attack" position actually feel like a positive "attack"....Thanks so much for this shorty!!!! (now I have to take this approach back to all the other stuff I've been working on from your videos!!!)
SO happy this is helping you!
Thanks, nice indicator how to stay centered.
Altogh I'm not sure i you can feel / see that from your riding perspektiv.
And most of us do have two heels. As we can see in the examples in the end, some line up with the front foot heel some with the back - quite a difference.
Yes, again, a general idea for getting folks in a decent position with the low body. I teetered about putting this one out as I know folks get super specific about exactly how something looks. Perhaps a better in person teaching cue, but hopefully the general idea of not pushing the hips too far back lands.
So riding level pedals, which ankle should the hips be over?
The forward most one or rear most?
Rear. Mostly this is about having tallish legs and not just dumping into the hips.
Does this cue give you anything different from "heavy feet light hands", or is it just another way to explain it that might click differently for some riders?
Just a detail some folks miss when we say 'knees over toes' as knees over toes can be achieved while still having the hips too far back. (You can even try this standing up). This little cue has been transformative for many riders in class. Remembering that this is a highly dynamic sport and that all shapes will not be the same all the time is important. And yes, this should make heavy feet and light hands.
T oe's, K nee"s, H ip's, H eel's (TKHH) great tip, thanks
Oh man, this doesn't work for me at all. I ride pretty upright in the legs with a more aggressive hinge. Unless, for a guy who's 5'11", I had a 530 reach, there's no way I'd feel centered in my bike at all, I'd just be kissing my front tire.
I do have to say though, the driving the knee forward cue, especially on front foot turns has been a great addition to the tool box!
Well if you ride with upright legs then your hips are indeed pretty much over your heels I'd guess. This is actually the shape we are getting at. And 'hinging' or attack position is great for many moments on the bike, but is most certainly not a 'held' position. The steeper the terrain your ride and the faster you are, the more aggressive your position your will often look, which sounds like the case for you.
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Interesting. Need to give this a try. I guess we’re saying hips over rear ankle?
Need to set up a video to see if I’m getting this right
Yes, but remember this isn't exact. Just a way to be sure you are not dumping into the hips rearward.
Shouldn't the hip be aligned to the heel of the rear foot (i.e. the heel of her right foot)?
Yes, more or less and not on every angle of ground. Just a basic way to get into the ballpark and for some riders makes them realize they were way too far back.
@@Fluidride Okay thanks for the reply. What do you mean by way too far back? Are some riders riding with hips too far back?
@@wslee2482 Yes, for me, it's the single most common mistake I see. It's the cause of about 70% of crashes on Friday Fails (videos on Pinkbike) for example. Being too far back can actually pull us forward over the bars on steeps or get us bucked forward on jumps. Lots about this within this channel. Hope it helps! -Simon
Your videos are awesome and everything I've ever watched from you is super helpful. But I do have to disagree with this. All of the riders you showed were using a hip hinge, which is vastly different than what you visually demonstrated. Learning the difference between a hip hinge and a squat years ago made a huge difference in every aspect of my riding. (Credit goes to Brian Lopes and Lee McCormack and their incredible book, "Mastering Mountain Bike Skills.")
Thanks for chiming in. I've talked to literally hundreds of pros, and none of them start their movements by hinging at the hips. I can see how it looks this way, but the move is always started by driving the knees forward as the rider moves into terrain. The final shape of the body looks very similar to as if the hips had hinged but the difference is that the head is able to stay up and the legs are in an athletic position supporting the body. Try this. Stand up and hinge at the hips and try to look up as if looking down trail. Tough on the neck to say the least and not really possible. Next, try bending slightly at the knees as you move forward toward what looks like a hip hinge. You should be able to look up much more easily and should feel your legs supporting you athletically. I know this sounds like splitting hairs, but it's not at all since this is our base we are talking about. Being sure to start with some knee bend and move forward toward terrain might look like hinging into the hamstrings, but it certainly isn't the same. Hope this makes sense!
@fluidride What about unlocking your hips like in moto? Does that automatically cue that position?
I do a lot of xc ski coaching in the winter and I see 100% the same thing. You tell people to bend at the ankles and they do that, but drop their hips. I try to teach rotating forward around your ankles so that your hips drive forward instead of back when you increase ankle flexion. When your hips are back, in pretty much any sport, you're not in a stable position.
One question I have is that in the video, you had your hips lined up closer to the front foot, but in the videos of the WC racers at the end, their hips were more lined up with their back foot. Is this just a factor of the slope, where you were on flat ground and they were on steep slopes, or is there more of a range for the hips between the feet?
I think that Linnea is in the wrong position, unfortunately... hips over the rear ankle for sure.
Such a common mistake to make!
@@FluidrideSo hips over the forward ankle or rear ankle. Confused now.
This is more for chill trails, jumping and cornering right? As it gets steeper/rougher your body crouches lower and your hips go farther back?
Exactly. This is a starting point. Many riders start out with their hips too far back.
@@Fluidride would be cool to do a slow mo video side shot of all the main positions stitched into one video with some freeze points/voice over explaining. I know you've talked about the transitions before but seeing them all in one video would be helpful and then diving into your other videos to get more detailed
Lianne where do you get your mtn bike pants and/or shorts. What brand are they? I want womens mtn bike shorts with the chamois inside and I have no clue where to look or what brand for women is good. Def need the chamois sewn inside. Prefer just above the knees
Thanks!
When middle foot pedaling I think it's not possible to get the hip above heels as it would be way too forward. What do you think ?
About middle foot pedaling I am a huge supporter about the Pedaling Innovations Catalyst pedals
I'm not familiar, but sounds interesting!
looking for "light feeling" handle bars, could be a good indicator of balanced position
Spot on. Always check in on the trail. 'Could I lighten my grip and hands a little?'. Good call.
Might work for someone 5ft5 but impossible for someone 6ft5 as bikes don't scale up enough to support this position. But good video none the less
I'm 6'4" and this is how I base my position. But, you are correct that we all look VERY different on our bikes. So interesting that at the highest lever of DH all types of bodies and heights can go fast. This is one of the toughest aspects of trying to share information online as there is no back and forth and way to discuss while on the bike while teaching. This is not exact, or held, but rather a starting point for riders who tend to gravitate too far back.
Anyway you could show how the position alters for a tall person? I’m 6’7 and always feel like my butt ends up over my rear axle and my chest is close to the front axle lol. Am excited to try standing up taller with the knees driven forward though!! Your videos are awesome thank you
Would hips over BB be valid? Linnea seems to have her hips close to over the front heel so near the BB axle? In the demo you seem to show hips over the front heel. I’m wondering why you did it that way round, so we’re looking at the front foot?
I did see your comment above that you meant over the heel of the rear foot.
Yes. This was meant to be a very basic video about how to initiate the stance (when coasting on flat ground). More about a starting point for movement. Many rider start too far back. Really the center of mass should be balanced over the BB in most instances when riding. The point of the video is that you can get your hips too far back even if you have knees over toes (or balls of the feet). Really this is all about finding balance over the BB as you mention.
And have a further epiphany about shoulders. I’m not saying fix those shoulders any more than I’d say keep your hips over your saddle in corners. This is all about the vertical line through the rider’s centre of gravity through the point of contact with the ground. I ride and jump horses too - we add the shoulders to this mix of position, especially during dynamic stuff. In fact, we don’t include the knees at all times, but focus on shoulder, hip, ball of toe (in the peddle/stirup). Have a look at some slow-mo elite horse jumping vids, especially the cross country part of 3 day eventing 😊
Not the same when horse is alive while bicycles are animated only by the rider. Horses can & do jump on their own (w/o rider) but not bikes. Horse adapts to rider's input and rider adapts to horse's response. Horse is more complicated!
I often use the horse riding analogy while teaching. So many similarities...especially at the foot base and with the way the weight should be shared over the pedals or stirup. On the bike, we have to hold onto the bars, which does make the shoulder aspect a little different. But, really important too much weight is not on the hands on the bike. We do our best on the bike to keep light hands, but is certainly a little different than on a horse. This makes me miss riding horses! I grew up in the country and rode all the neighbors horses as a child. So much fun to be on an animal so powerful!
@@Fluidride Simon, the true guru who taught me alpine ski MA used to love doing skiing and horse riding analogies, focused on "lead change" ideas. I've ridden horses 2x and both times my big impression was that the horse has its own mind and ideas about movement, and riding is all about learning how to "talk to" the horse to get it to do, in its mind, what you're wanting it to do. I didn't ride them enough to get to "lead change" ideas (canter, gallop) but I always appreciated the way the guru could make analogies. Maybe you encountered him in your skiing days, Jim Weiss of Wisdom MT, former coach to both men's & women's US Alpine Ski teams and he was a honcho in PSIA when he put time into that world. Mostly a race coach and a very good one. Jim passed away about 18 mos ago, before I could persuade him to let me be the writer of his thoughts on alpine ski movement.
The part about how you "talk to" the horse (with your body position and your urgings to the horse) definitely holds a lot of analogies for any implement-using sport like cycling, skiing, skateboarding, moto. That's how we get the bicycle to do what we want, eh? We give it inputs, and those inputs can be beneficial or neutral or detrimental depending on our ability to be in synch with the bike's movements and responses. I think it's easier than learning to get along with a horse such that it's almost of one mind with the rider.
@@seanoneil277 Jim sounds as though he was amazing. This kind of work is a labor of love for sure. I never learned anything technical about horse riding. I used to just ride all the neighbors horses...bareback mostly. One of my goals has been to get my ideas out there, so that they can be shared. This is why I started doing a YT channel, even though it's not really a great investment financially to be sure. Glad you are getting something from the work we're doing! I want at least parts of what I teach to be available to anyone with an internet connection. Above you mention all my sports. I was a skater, rode horses and raced moto for years. Interesting how much crossover there is!
@@Fluidride You would have enjoyed talking to Jim about all those activities and how much cross-learning is possible, that was one of his great gifts. I like your videos because they remind me of skiing with Jim & chatting about movement, efficiency, body awareness, and the great gremlin -- humans fear steeps and always lean back, and/or reach for, the slope behind them even if falling into gravity's pull is more effective!
He was a cattle rancher from childhood to his 70s, grew up on horses, motos and skis. From E Oregon originally, but by the 80s he was in SW MT near Lost Trail ski area, where I met him, winter 2000-01.
I found that dropping my heels when not needed moved my hips back too far and really made cornering poor and made me have to reach too far forward.
Yeah, for sure. The dropping of the heels is something we use some of the time, but it's certainly not an all the time thing!
wait - what about when you are riding with a more aggressive position and hip hinge? Wouldn't that put you too far to the front?
You are only doing that on steeper ground than where we were demonstrating. And while it might look like the hips are hinged on steep ground, the hip hinge move starts with movement at the knees. So many folks are teaching shapes and not movement which makes it confusing for sure. This is a basic idea to get folks more or less in the right starting position. We see so many riders too far back on the trail and when teaching.
@@Fluidride thank you. That’s very helpful. Oddly, I think I have the opposite bad tendency. My inner skier always thinks forward is better, and I get too far forward sometimes- especially on tight turns. This is good stuff to know. Thank you!
@@BoyajianDon There are a few of you out there! Yeah, a good thing can be taken too far and become a bad thing!
Pretty hard to nail that subtle shift while looking downward to line things up. Point of view is way different from above and in front of cue points rather than side on. Need second person with a straight stick, hockey or ringette stick, holding it on hip joint and against forward foot’s heel, then rider contacts the stick to feel the change, or a friend doing the pic, etc for the rider to get feedback. Same drill is basically done for dialling in straight back hinge to prep for deadlifting; hold stick along spine with one hand up high, other down low, with stick contacting head, low back and sacrum throughout the hinge.
This is a general theory intended to help riders from keeping hips too far back when riding. The moves in mtb are so diverse that it, like anything else is not a held position and the reps unlike in lifting are not as dead on each time as terrain mixes things up. Not meant to be fully literal or measurable...just something that has helped my riders in class immensely.
@@Fluidride the deadlift/hinge drill is an analogy for how a stick can be used to gain a feel for the position; it’s not a measurement. The stick is a suggested teaching aid, that’s all. It just augments a visual cue with a tactile cue. Highlighting a static position that one flows into and out of repeatedly in real life is useful for learning/applying a technique, regardless of the sport. If a position is not useful, or merely theory and not applicable to real life, then there’s not much point in learning about it.
@@jc10747 Cool. Thanks for the additional info. My point was that powerlifting is done in a little more static environment I guess. I was super into it in college. I really do appreciate any and all input! Cheers.
The position demonstrated in the video seems a sure fire way to get shot out of the front door on anything technical or steep and is nowhere near the position demonstrated by the WC riders at the end. Hip hinge for the win.
replying to myself - look at laurie greenland's position - perfect hip hinge with weight through feet - totally different to that demonstrated here. Sorry like most of your vids but this is not one of them.
I would argue that Laurie or any of the riders do not start by hinging at the hips, although this this the shape they end up in. Try standing up and then hinging at the hips - then try to get your eyes up like his are. Next try this by starting with a subtle knee bend while moving knees forward into this position. You will look hinged, but really you will be standing over your legs in your quads and not in your hamstrings.
@@Fluidride thanks for the response. Apologies but I just don't get that instruction, which may well be my issue. I can indeed hinge and keep my eyes looking forward, but cannot get in that position with the instruction in your post as my hips are too far forward. Is the position the rider in your video demonstrates the same as in the end WCD clips? Perhaps if you'd had a side on view you'd have recognised it is not, which it clearly isn't. Maybe I have totally missed the point of the vid?
@@matho8262 Yeah, I think I actually wasn't clear with this one at all. Really this is about getting folks from getting too low. When I teach riders, I often see them coasting around in a low crouch which is really tiring. So, when teaching a basic standing posture (off the bike) in my classes, I ask riders to stand with feet hip width (not riding stance) and bend the knees only enough that the rear hip is over the ankle. We then stand in a riding posture with feet offset and feel this basic stance. (Which I call throne position - called by other names with other coaches). So this really about a basic athletic stance off the bike, which we can bring on the bike as a starting point. It's not about what we look like as we move through various positions on the bike. Wish I'd been more clear with this one for sure!
But, this is only on flat ground. You can do it going steeply downhill.
Great advice BUT... I think that Linnea is in a wrong position, too far forward, the hips should be over the rear ankle like the pros in the end of the video. How could you guys miss it? 🤔
Good catch...but...the pros in those videos are on MUCH steeper ground. As the ground pitch steepens the bottom bracket moves in relation to the bike, making us look further back. This is meant as a general guideline and is not meant to be exact in every moment. Most riders we teach (more than 1,000 per year in person) are missing this and are too far back. When on really steep pitches this looks a bit different but the basic idea is the same; to be sure the body is supported by the legs in an athletic way.
Hips over front heel?
Rear, but really not to be taken too literally. We move into all kinds of positions on the bike. This really helps when teaching cornering or jumping in our local park. More about the ability to support body weight though the legs while riding and not have the weight too far back.
Two questions.
Are they a couple?
Is he take a lot of Testosterone?
No, we aren't. Co-workers only.
No way that’s going to work on steep and chunky and at speed .
You can only try to be in that position in smother fire roads haha
No one rides in that position whit the chest up in the sky on steep stuff.
But maybe if you just standing still it could work lol
Exactly right. It's a starting point!
When I ride with Linnea my form suffers. It's more like head over heels.😜
This works the same for Alpine (downhill) skiing. Hips over heels. Often when people are told to place knees over toes they sit back in the chair position. Also by standing higher with hips over heels you then have more room to actually absorb bumps as you allow the bike or skies to move up or down underneath you. Mountain bike trail riding is great cross training for skiing moguls, trees and backcountry. ⛷🚵♂️🚵♂️⛷
Interesting. While I was an avid skier years back, I'd not heard that tip for skiing. Makes perfect sense though! I use ski analogies all the time as they seem to nearly always be spot on.