Genie Warlock Meatgrinder | DND 5e Multiclass Build
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- Опубліковано 26 лис 2022
- Let's build a meatgrinder with this extremely powerful Genie Warlock multiclass in DND 5e!
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I’ve heard you can’t communicate with your familiar due to you being in an “extra dimensional “ space…
Yep! I believe I've pinned a comment covering the same note. That said, the real benefit is just being able to short rest with your familiar guarding the amulet and alerting you to the goings on around you.
@@ConstructedChaos sorry, didn’t see the comment.
@@elderashagall Oh, it's no worries! I appreciate you commenting nonetheless! It looks like I didn't have it pinned like I thought anyway so good looking out haha!
I don’t think that’s true the extra dimensional space is still connected to the prime world. It’s stated that you can hear everything happening around your ring “genie item”. So why can’t you communicate with your super familiar?
@@bloodoftheunicorns2621 I'd say that should be left up to your DM. There are rules that state you can't communicate with your familiar across planar spaces--which the genie item is. So, it's a bit conflicting.
I appreciate you including an example of how to make this build work as a character rather than just a block of damage numbers and stats
It's important to remember this is a roleplaying game at the end of the day, and getting a way to justify fun and nutty builds in a way condusive to roleplay is very nice
I'm not using this character myself, but i'm totally keeping an eye on your channel
Subscribed
Thank you very much! I place a big focus on storytelling here because it's what I most enjoy about the hobby!
I had an idea for an air genasi genie warlock himself. Djinn patron. His parents aren't genasi, but a humanoid father and a djinn mother; his mother is his patron. I find it humorous that when calling on his patron for aid, he's literally 'calling mom' to help him and his party out of whatever mess they're in.
Hahahaha That's a fun one! "Mom, this person said they were gonna beat me up!"
@@ConstructedChaos Still trying to figure out the plot angle for him. She -could- be his patron simply because she cares about her kid, but I was thinking he might be searching for his dad who has gone missing, but then I run into the question of why couldn't she use the wish spell to just bring her husband home, or at least locate him.
@@shrunkenone sometimes I find the best thing to do is to build in little inconsistencies like that and make your DM aware of it so they can leverage your backstory and still surprise you to some extent during the campaign!
You could also treat the warlock class similarly to a sorcerer. The Magic can come from the elemental bloodline
@@zeestar0112 Of course! I just wanted to differentiate the two for extra examples of motivating a multiclass!
*_Human Fighter transformed into a Yuan-Ti by a mad Blue Dragon, befriended a Djinni that was enslaved by the same, and entered into a compact with him. Earned Warlock level later on, as well as developed Fighter levels into an Echo Knight. Between Minor Illusion, Misty Visions, and Echo-port features, he makes for a surprisingly good Face and Scout character. Pact of the Tome not only allows for another smattering of useful cantrips, but also allows for Ritual casting and eliminates a need for sleep._*
*_3 levels for Fighter, the rest for Warlock, concluding with a Wish spell at level 20, which he might(?) use to regain his humanity, or at least his human emotions. Considering his actions as a Yuan-Ti up to that point, though, he might minecraft himself out of shame and guilt, I guess we shall see..._*
Sounds like a really unique build and an even more unique set of circumstances that lead to it! Nice!
Randomly stumbled upon your channel today, great stuff 👍🏻 keep it up you have really engaging content. I’d love to see more crazy builds like this from you.
Thanks so much!! I like doing videos like this that have a little bit of everything-story, rules, etc. Glad you’re enjoying it and welcome to the channel!
Would love to see more builds like this!
Thanks John! I try to do one of these every month so expect another fairly soon!
You mentioned that the fly speed gained through Warlock would be helpful with pushing flying enemies to the ground. It would also be good for flying above grounded enemies already in your Spiked Growth, pulling them into the air via Grasp of Hadar, and then dropping them. They will then be prone inside of your Spiked Growth and will have to waste half of their movement to stand up on their turn. This will make it so the enemies you do this to will practically never escape your brambles. You would pull them like this as your last attack.
Absolutely! Good tip there!
not great for dmg but yes excellent for control focused cheese-grater builds.
You can take the pact of the tome instead of pact of the chain and pick up the find familar spell, and giving yourself access to every ritual spell and ritual casting and some cantrips from other classes. If you choose the owl you can do almost everything the Imp does and it doesn't provoke opportunity attacks. Plus all the extra rituals and cantrips make you more versatile as a warlock.
You're very right here but do also keep in mind that the imp has the innate ability to speak for us--something we wouldn't be able to do with the owl while we short rest. Still, there's plenty of merit to do things either way.
@@ConstructedChaos true!
@@ConstructedChaos and has hands, don’t forget hands
@@Pyrous56 agreed here. this is the biggest benefit of the chainlock familiars over normal familiars. you can have them drop caltrops, use magic items, etc.
Ah, but note that the RAVEN has voice mimicry and therefore can speak for us as as well
I ran a Changeling Pact of the Chain Genie Warlock with an Efreet patron and Spy background.
My back story was that my parents had done the Efreet a solid by releasing him from captivity in a Wizard's tower so he granted them a wish. They wished for me to have a better life than they did and of course what would an Efreet think a better life for a mortal would be? To serve him of course. So he gave me a bit of power, turned me into a changeling and had me spy for him on the Material Plane.
None of my other party members knew any of this and I played him as close to the chest as I could, only using powers when it wasn't blatantly obvious that I was doing so. For instance, one time I "ninja vanished" by throwing a smoke bomb down and jumping into my lamp and having my invisible Imp (who they didn't know I had) carry the lamp away.
My DM even had me run two character sheets until the party actually witnessed me blatantly using Warlock magic. One that the rest of the party could see and my actual sheet and I always kept my Imp flying high in the air and invisible, using hin to scout.
Why all that extra work? Because my Efreet patron told me under no uncertain terms that if people ever blew my cover and figured out that I had an Efreet patron he would murder them and everything within an entire city block.
It was nerve wracking but absolutely the most fun I'd had at a table in years. By the end of the third session they were starting to question things but it wasn't until the 7th that I slipped up with a bad roll.
This is definitely the right way to run a secretive backstory! You had strong motivations for doing so and your DM was in on it! Well done!!
He's Back!
Glad to be!!!!
Hot stuff. Fun build! I’m just coming across this now after playing for over a year as a Rune Knight, Genie Warlock, Divine Soul sorcerer multi class.
Currently they are 3 fighter, 7 warlock, 1 sorcerer. The flight combine with ranged attacks and spells is fire.
Depending on the situation,
- spike growth and pushing blasts
- summon fey or undead and let the enemy fight my summon while I cripple them from a distance
- eventually shenanigans with wall of stone will occur as I fly above the battlefield, while it is segmented with different walled off areas contact my allies and trapping enemies while I obliterate them from the air
- melee enemies stand very little chance and ranged enemies and spell casters are very fun to outmaneuver
- for extreme Defense, I’m going with the pact of the talisman, which helps me counter and dispel things I don’t like and also with the right invocation boosts my savings throws since the only way people can really get me is with ranged or area affect spells.
- The cloud rune and fire rune give me some serious aces up my sleeve too if necessary
- favored by the gods boosts my saving throws as well once per short rest on very important ones
-since I went divine sorcerer, I can also heal down the allies as well as have access to the shield spell and absorb elements
- It’s some of the most fun I have ever had controlling a character and building a story around being a fighter of deception
Very nice! Seems like you've thought this through and carry a lot of versatility versus a one-trick pony!
@@ConstructedChaosso fun! 🫶
I kind of want a pact of the tome genie warlock with thaumaturgy who gets introduced to the party when a bartender accidentally serves his bottle to one of the other players while he's napping inside. He then uses thaumaturgy to make a convincing display and claim to be a genie himself, offering his services if they help him with his patron's quest.
That would be an awesome way to introduce your character!!
Playing similar build recently(just less fighter), the number 1 priority is having backup plan for when you totally and absolutely disgust your DM to the point where he starts using ambushes or teleporting and flying creatures in every other encounter :D Also when you get ambushed, laying down spikegrowth doesnt really work for your party hehe, so get your options!
My top picks:
Classic darkness+devilsight against flying enemies
Summon undead/shadowspawn when getting jumped on as these guys can give you a lot of breathing room very quickly
Cloud of daggers works really great with all your forced movement, but doesnt fuck up your meele martial allies (allows you to get its damage twice per round when you move enemies into it, and boy can you move enemies around right?)
So when you encounter classic ground enemies and you act first: spikegrowth
Encountering flying enemies: darkness/devilsight and blast them down
Getting ambushed by spread ranged enemies: Summon shadowspawn (just summon it right in their stupid face, make them frightened and slow their movement speed, they are now powerless)
Getting ambushed by meele enemies: cloud of daggers near them, and shove enemies into your cloud, party can help aswell. Fits great with "meatgrinder" thematic.
Also get some extra concentration protection, getting shield spell goes a long way a eldritch mind and shit, because your DM will want your concentration down asap :D
Nice adjustments here! Sounds like you've had a lot of fun with this one haha
@@ConstructedChaos yeah, I am big fan of warlocks cheese grater build and control/blaster casters in general (my second fav being stars druid). And my biggest lesson is that in optimized build, most dms will eventually learn to soft counter you (sometimes by just spreading the enemies apart) , so you need workaround tactics, as you really can't expect to use the same strategy and spell rotation for whole game 😁
nice creative build combining grasping arrow and spike growth. my builds for both were separate. by the way its good to see you posting vids like this again. it was such a long time since the last one. 3 months? anyway good to see you back.
imo i would've delayed fighter 4-6 just to get your combo online earlier but i see the logic behind it. only thing i probably disagree with is the ability score distribution. i would've gone str 8, dex 14, con 12, int 14, wis 8 and cha 15. getting that extra bonus to int will help prevent people from breaking grasping arrow too early.
great point on banishment as an alternative tactic. why spend turns killing the enemy with dmg when you can just remove an enemy completely on round 1?
already shared my own cheese-grater build in your older warlock vids. "the hex-grater" which was a fighter 2, hexblade 5, nature cleric 3. then my grasping arrow build was an arcane archer 3 battlesmith 7 that relied on a grappling steel defender to proc grasping arrow multiple times.
Glad to have your accolades on the build and I do see your point about ability scores! I prioritized constitution since I felt keeping our concentration would be more important but perhaps having higher INT would be better since we don't even get spike growth until a good bit later.
As for the timing of the video, believe me, it killed me not to put this out sooner. I've been working out of state for the last 2 months and working 14hr days every day. I even brought all my gear with me to film from the hotel I was living in. But there was hardly time to eat and sleep haha. Anyway, I'm back now and hitting the ground running so expect me to get back to my old publishing schedule!
@@ConstructedChaos yup. it's a great version of a popular build. after seeing your vid, i actually went back to my hexgrater to see if i could fit in arcane archer properly but sadly couldn't (i'd need a 4th class, bladesinger, and i try to stick triple class combos only).
yeah as far as putting a bit more int at the expense of con i thought your concen shouldn't be in danger alot as you have con save prof, play at range and inflict a good amount of control. but yeah i see why you did it and it's valid reasoning.
anyway glad to hear you're doing well and have a more relaxed schedule. just in time for the holidays!
I run a efreeti warlock. One of my favorite spells to use is hunger of hadar. Our Paladin has blind sight and blind fighting. He gets surrounded by enemies I engulf him in hunger and we truly grind enemies into paste.
Nice teamwork! Hunger of Hadar is definitely one of the quintessential warlock spells at that level!
thats a very cool character
Thanks!! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
That dino-nuggets and gravy . . .nugget
Must try 😋
Hahaha dino nuggets are S-tier food easily.
I'd like to see you try an Armorer Artificer/Barbarian build. I love your channel but I'm having issues making this one work.
That's definitely an interesting concept! I'll have a look into that at some point!
I agree that genie warlocks are just great.
One day I'll make a build that's straight genie but I'm a tinkerer at heart haha!
one of my top 3 fave warlocks.
Like my pally warlock bard mix 😊
Sounds like an interesting blend! I'd love to know how you arrived at that story-wise haha
My favorite subclass
It's so underrated!!
@@ConstructedChaos i wouldn't say it's underrated. its quite popular and acknowledged as one of the best warlock subclasses. fathomlocks would be an example of what's underrated.
When multiclassing with Fighter, I almost always rush Fighter 4, then decide how I want to advance from there. Two levels in your second class is a decent investment, Fighter 5 is always good. Either way, staying on track or being ahead of the ASI track at 8th level is solid.
And don't forget that sweet extra ASI that fighters get at level 6! Yum!
I'm a pact of the Tome Genie (playing an Eladrin with the Tasha's custom origin). No multiclassing this time.
My favorite thing to do so far is to use the concentration free flight, Thorn Whip someone in the air, have them fail a save to land on their feat, and then hit them with Shadow Blade while their prone, and be back up in the air when they get up. The Elven Accuracy feat makes this really good too.
I also have Shellelagh, Booming Blade, and the Crusher feat. Hitting them with Shadow Blade and then Booming Blade (Boom Stick), and knocking them back 5 feet, and then more than likely have them trigger movement damage, is really satisfying too lol.
Eventually I want to get War Caster and whatever the invocation is that moves people back 10 feet with Eldritch Blast. I already asked my DM and she said that I could stack or distribute the different movement features, and move enimies with both the Crusher feat and Dao Bludgeoning damage and Eldtritch Blast. That could help keep another person inside a Sickening Radiance radius, or just pushing people back 15 feet sounds cool too lol.
I'll probably get the invocation next level, and swap it out with Misty Visions. I thought I could use that to constantly create cover, but there hasn't been a lot of ranged attackers in this campaign. Also my group kind of just Leroy Jenkins everything, so I haven't even really gotten a chance to use the actual illusionary aspect of the Silent Image spell either lol.
Reading this made me hope your dm just spams counterspell at you.
take note forced movement doesn't activate booming blade rider dmg. the invocation you're talking about is grasp of hadar.
you are underestimating misty visions. this is one of the best advantage generators for non-melee in the game. examples of what you can create:
1. fog
2. sand/eldritch/fire/lightning storms
3. hail and rain
4. smoke
5. wispy mist/cloud/ghostly energies
if the environment isnt conducive to any of this atmospheric effects then create a mobile cement wall with arrow slits (like in medieval times). you can fire spells and arrow from the slits and enemies cant see you (thus have advantage to hit, disadvantage to be hit and cant be targeted by sight spells). this will force them to approach your wall and go around it to get to you. having alot of forced movement helps this tactic as well.
have these effects up before combat and moving with you and the party as you travel. you and your allies can see through it. enemies can't. unless they go towards it and break it with an investigation check. this is essentially a roving greater invisibility bubble for you and your party which you can also use to generate surprise if you have good stealth on everyone.
@@TheRobversion1 Sadly, Minor Illusion and Silent Image can be either extremely good or extremely bad depending on if your DM is willing to "play the game"
@@vanaak9070 if the DM is following the rules or clarifications from JC/Sage Advice then certain aspects of it like i described shouldnt be an issue. If they are bound by the rules just like players are, then there shouldnt be an issue. Theres tons of vids and guides there on how to rule illusions as RAW.
If the dm just chooses to ignore the rules then yes what you said is true. But this can be said of anything in the game.
to be clear, i'm not saying nothing about illusions are subject to DM fiat. there are applications of it that are. especially the creative, utility applications out of it outside of combat. the in-combat applications of it i mentioned are cut-and-dry already as pretty much its already been compared to the fog cloud spell which is cut-and-dry.
@@TheRobversion1 Some DMs will metagame heavily with their monsters and will spend their actions investigating until the monster succeeds instead of roleplaying with their intelligence score.
So yes, the power of illusion relies heavily on the DM and wether they want to give power to spells that requires a bit of smart thinking
This was an amazing and very detailed build. I had an idea for a character too but i’m not super knowledgeable with DND stats and figures. I wanted to start my character as a nimble and partial thief, but want to end up an oath of vengeance Paladin. Are there any hybrid builds that could accommodate this?
Honestly, if you're looking for a thief, the Rogue embodies that archetype pretty completely. That said, I'm sure you can lean in that direction from where you've started. Paladin does certainly want for high Strength and Charisma, however, and Rogue wants high Dexterity. So, the build could end up becoming a bit MAD (or Multiple Attribute Dependent).
@@ConstructedChaos thanks so much! You have the coolest stories for characters as well.
@@shawnberry760 No problem! And I'm happy you're enjoying it! There's a lot more where that came from! :D
you can always use strength for attacking with finesse weapons, and plate and a shield with sneak attack, smites and a steed whilst still picking locks is pretty cool. a 13 dex let's you multiclass, and hey, that's still totally nimble.
@@samuelbroad11 I really like this idea!
Nice
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I don’t think you can telepathically communicate with your familiar from inside the genie vessel since it is an extra dimensional space.
Ya got me there! I'm not sure how I missed that one but I wonder if things might be able to hear you from inside the vessel anyway (since the description does say you can hear them). At the very least, the familiar works as a nice guard dog while you rest up. And you could reasonably assume that they share your goals and inclinations to some extent since they were given to you by your patron.
yes but you can still communicate verbally. and you can communicate telepahtically if you have voice of the chainmaster.
@@TheRobversion1 Actually most rulings I'm seeing say that voice of the choirmaster doesn't work because it wouldn't allow you to communicate across planes. It's legitimately a good catch and I don't mind it! The plan still works, it just works a little differently now haha.
@@ConstructedChaos fair enough. if the extradimensional space is considered another plane, then yeah voice of the chainmaster wouldn't work.
i've always considered extradimensional space though to be still on the same plane. much like strange's mirror dimension usage in the material plane.
@@TheRobversion1 I've thought the same way but it was apparently clarified in a sage advice that I didn't see. It makes enough sense and I don't mind it, really haha.
Pretty sure this would perform better without the arcane archer levels.
Especially since we dont need the heavy armor proficiency with a high dex.
It probably would! I just liked the idea of tacking on even more movement damage and the flavor of arcane archer in general
I was doing my best to follow along. I got lost about 15:13 because for some reason an extra point of charisma comes up. Can anyone tell me where i messed up?
There was one point in the video where I mentioned increasing both cha and dex with an ASI at 4th level and then taking telepathic at 6th level (which also increases cha by 1). I didn't display the ability scores there like I usually do so maybe that's where the extra point came from?
I'm a 12th level wildhunt Shifter and chose the Marid. Straight classed to get to 14 asap... pretty fun.
Nice!! It was definitely tempting to just go straight warlock for this one! I may revisit that in the future because it's definitely worth it.
@Constructed Chaos but after 14 I'm wondering if I should multiclass or get wish at 17... ugh. It's a great multiclass warlock, but tough when you want the special abilities.
Just a thought but, get the arrow that can phase through objects, ghostly gaze, and investure of rock to walk through stone walls. You can shoot someone through objects, but they can't see you.
@@braevblackthorn6853 oh I think if you stick it out that far it definitely makes sense to keep going!
@@braevblackthorn6853 I'd say if the campaign will reach 17, go for wish but if finishing at 16, multiclass at 15.
@@TheRobversion1 multiclass into what?
As a dao genie warlock, you don’t get access to the efreeti spell scorching ray. Might want to put an errata
Oh I see! I mentioned it too early as you do eventually get it from Sorcerer. Nice catch!
If you take genie subclass it seems a waste to not rush to 17. Arcanum are not spell slots so a simulacrum regains them as class feature so it’ll regain 6/7/8/9 spell daily including a daily wish.
I did touch on that at the end of the video. Of all the warlock subclasses, genie probably makes the most sense to solo. But this is what I felt like doing :)
Agreed with chaos here. it's not like most campaigns reach tier 4.
I made this character I absolutely loved!!! She’s not a warlock but she has a patron anyway. Her name was Alina duvess but everyone just calls her Candy Because she basically only eats lollypops. She was 17 and a not so typical school girl who went to essentially Assassin school. She’s a mastermind rouge who after minuet of observing someone out of combat can perfectly copy their voice. She’s variant human so she started with a feat and I picked Erdrich adept and took mask of many faces for infinite disguise self on top of that. At 9th level she got this feature that lets her observe a creature for a minuet and learn their stats level etc… but it also says “you might realize that you know some information about this creature” so we played that like she gets “a fact a day” on people she sees. I’d roll a d6 and it would land on 2 skeletons , or 4 goals. and she would just learn that fact bout them. Each side has it’s own personal thing. Her patron was Loki and she met him when she tried pickpocketing him around 6. She lives for chaos and would get people to kill each other for funzies, make poisonous lollypops(mostly laxative but also meth).
She would start rebellions just to make nobles pay her to put them down. She would trick nobles into signing themselves and their inheritance to her. She would commit crazy war crimes and blow up entire city blocks because it’s funny. And she lived through the whole 5 month campaign. Not only did she live but she formed a whole county called “candy land” (I know 😂) and she became the real queen of chaos! And Loki was with her every step of the way. You don’t need to be a warlock to have a patron :)
Having a patron as a non-warlock is a great point. And this character sounds like a handful hahaha.
Don't you need spellcasting or pact magic to take eldritch adept?
@@FordShackelford You do, yes! I just assumed they'd picked it up from a dip into something else possibly.
Nah, my dm liked the concept so much she just let it slide. We had a lore explanation for it and well the game is also about fun. We all had fun together seeing how much mileage I could get out of these combined features and so why let a silly little prerequisite get in the way? I realize not all dms are as chill on some of those rules as her but we all understood that my character wasn’t actually all the good at combat. 80% of her features were for out of combat use so adding more out of combat utility wasn’t a biggie, especially some that fit within our lore. My warlock contract with my dm was “give me this feature, let me have my niece within the party and I won’t rouge up the whole campaign or power game” (I don’t have a History of that but she did have some previous players who were like that)
I love making characters so much and I hate to see rules squander creativity. Magic(all magic) is flexible. If you are willing to take the time to ensure you aren’t busting the game, why have so many weird restrictions. Wizards of the coast is cool and smart and I agree with them 80% of the time but some exceptions are allowed to exist! Be free and creative! And good rolling to ya!!
@@matthewmaguire7328 Rule of cool is the best rule of all!
So the curious thing is on how you would introduce this kind of character into Baldurs Gate type of world? We're going through a campaign that puts us into the underdark around this area.
Easy! Just say the character has been a wondering adventurer since the loss of his tribe and maybe they've happened into whatever location you need in search of work or some other purpose!
@@ConstructedChaos So what I was planning to do was play this but as a Shadar-Kai and using the ring as it's small and easier to keep hidden if needed. Not to mention wouldn't take much to bury it if needing to rest for a short time, which would make Unseen servant easier for this type of thing as you can give it orders prior it also doesn't state it requires to be on the same plane of existence and the space inside is not stated to consider past 60 feet. So in a way burn a 1st level spell slot and use it as your last spell slot to take your own short rest while on the move by telling the unseen servant to follow your party while it wears the ring if there's going to be a bit of traveling happening for the next hour. Also this spell is able to be ritual casted which means you could go for the book instead of chain and only take 10 minutes and 6 seconds for casting it so you have all uses of your 1st level spell available.
@@Uzik0uchiha Nice approach here! I can dig it!
@@ConstructedChaos So a bit of additive for some flavored storyline, I chose Inheritor and planned to make my Shadar-Kai *since they are already blessed by the Raven queen.* To be the next champion for her.
Instead of the Chain Pact, you can go for the talisman pact and double down of the forced movement by picking the Rebuke of the Talisman invocation. It allows you to push a creature that damages you 10ft backwards as a reaction. You can also go for Crusher instead of Telekinetic at level 6, such that when you attack with your bow, you already deal the extra damage from grasping arrow, freeing your bonus action at levels 7 and 8 to cast Hex, which can be used to make the grasping arrow harder to escape from. Last but not least, Sharpshooter can be a huge buff to damage even at lower levels, since you have archery
Yep! This was definitely a consideration of mine but I really wanted to make use of the short rest ability and its synergy with Fighter. Sure, there are ways to do it without--like just having your party carry the genie's vessel. But, I like the flavor and utility of this option better, personally!
Also, the problem I run into with sharpshooter is that it can cost more movement to shift into good positions for pushing/pulling enemies and keeping them in spike growth if I'm further away. Spike growth itself has a 150ft range anyway so I'm not sure we'd use it as much as some other archery builds.
@@ConstructedChaos I'm playing a very similar build at a table right now, but much more focused on reliable damage. That means Sharpshooter, Hexblood as the race for a free casting of hex at lower levels and Rebuke of the talisman (that doesn't have limited usage). Of course what constitutes "reliable" depends heavily on the table you're playing.
Another suggestion is going for Bladesinger at some point in order to attack and cast Eldritch blast using the same action. The only problem is having to wait for 6 levels before actually gaining the benefits of the multiclass. But for a high level one shot (12th level or higher) Bladesinger 6 / Arcane Archer 3 / Genie Warlock 3 is a solid character
hex cant fit in the build as his concen is occupied by spike growth. rebuke of the talisman though is a worthy suggestion. sharpshooter i'd skip. that could make his few attempts at grasping arrow miss when he needs those to his immediately on round 1. he doesn't have an advantage generator either to offset the penalty or something like precision attack in case he misses.
@@ConstructedChaos yup. you'd probably only use archery attacks on round 1 for grasping arrow then EB rest of the way action wise. that's a bad feat investment.
Anyway to get a character sheet link?
I'll be sure to include them in future videos but, sadly, this one was deleted when I unsubscribed from DNDBeyond during the OGL debacle. I had to go down to 6 characters and this was one that I wasn't using at the time!
How would you handle Artificer/Warlock?
Artificer/Warlock can be a bit MAD (multiple attribute dependent) but I'd probably take the majority of levels in Artificer and then dip warlock for whatever I was after since the class is so front loaded!
depends on the build and core tactics. what key abilities are we getting from each, that usually defines the initial levels.
Can't you just forgo switching to Sorcerer and just pick up Metamagic Adept to get the Quicken Spell?
that'll only be good for one instance. you need at least 2 sorc + metamagic adept (or sorc 3) to make it semi-sustainable for multiple combats.
It is something I toyed with but I think this build comes out better with the sorcerer levels--even without accounting for the potential of generating extra spell slots via your warlock slots and genie's vessel short rests.
@@ConstructedChaos and giving you access to some good sorc spells! its not like the core of your build will allow you to hit wish anyway. Trading off warlock mystic arcanum/invocations for sorc levels was the right choice imo.
Honestly I think Arcane Archer is sub optimal call, I would have chosen Battlemaster as you have a greater versatility of options and more uses per short rest.
I have a similar build in mind. However I have less reliance on fighter levels. My build is Custom Liniege with the Fey Touched (Cha) feat. I go with Daolock (PoC) 6, Battlemaster 4, Clockwork Soul 10
Agreed. I think Arcane Archer is not a good call at all. Honestly Echo Knight and warcaster to make a choke point if they try to teleport out is a good idea. If you go with pact of the tome you can use shelialiegh to do a melee attack and use unleashed incarnation for another attack. Of course with warcaster-echo knight you can spam eldritch blast as a reaction making the creature move 10-40 feet back, taking more spike growth damage and because its a new turn you apply bludgeoning damage again for crusher shenanigans!
Placed correctly you can have 4 bouts of eldritch blasts-spike growth in one round (action surge, quickened spell and reaction giving you the extra 3!)
you also get a bonus action teleport at will with the echo and can place it on different sides of the spike growth. the echo can fly (confirmed by jeremy crawford) and so can you as a genie level 6 so you can do this teleport in the air!
All great suggestions! In the end, I felt arcane archer was a fun and flavorful decision. I can definitely see where other options could have resulted in more optimal builds. I mainly wanted to double down on the decreased movement and damage from forced movement with an attack that’s already flavored to pair well with spike growth!
I think it's not. grasping arrow + forced movement + spike growth is synergistic. battlemaster would've been a worse pick as it doesn't provide anything that strengthens the core tactic. i do agree with deadpool though that echo knight is the better subclass here but my guess is Chaos skipped it as echo knights are commonly excluded at some tables due to being setting specific content.
fighter is there because he wanted the setup to happen quicker which is the correct approach. personally, i do agree that he could've had less fighter levels.
my own cheesegrater which i posted in one of Chaos's old warlock builds follows a similar formula. the level 10 theorycraft was fighter 2, hexblade 5, nature cleric 3 focusing on the spike growth + hexblade's curse nuke.
@@ConstructedChaos fair justification. i think grasping arrow + lance of lethargy + difficult terrain provides a nice control aspect to the build. it's not always about dmg.
@@TheRobversion1 Trip Attack, Menacing Attack, Pushing Attack, all seem like viable options to me
Nice. I like it.
I want to do a Jedi (hexblade + aberrant).
I was going to start witch then sourcerer but is it better to start sourcerer? After this video I am rethinking it.
I've played both a straight up Genie witch genasi and divine sourcerer halfling. My Jedi will be half-elf. She has a long dark back story. Unlike the runaway princess and the sweetet clueless halfling who couldn't find a job anywhere and mistakenly ended on a dangerous mission. LOL [I'm playing her now. She's at 12th level and really tough for a 2'10" Lightfoot halfling]
I didn't get far on the Geni witch unfortunately, she was by far the most fun to play. Think Efreete + high elf for my genasi. She passes as a gray half elf dresses more like a rogue. I took charlatan background then mask of many faces because daddy, a king, is hunting her down pissed she robbed the family vault to pay sailors to help her steal obe of his ships. She dreams of being a pirate. She is not persuaded by money only excitement and things that make her feel free. She enjoys cheating at cards and lies with impunity. She is over confident having grown up a sheltered life and never really experiencing loss. The archipelago that her father rules is half human and half elven. A good number are gray skinned with jet black hair and amber eyes, like her. The humans worship a fire god, Tutu Pele and when her family commandeered the islands they allowed the humans to keep worship and even pay respects themselves and also to Corellon. Ald'Raynne's (aka Captian Zadia) pact is with this "island Godess" Tutu. [Yes, I did borrow sort of the story and name from Hawaiian lore]. I wish I could continue playing her or replay her. Her Deception was super high. Lol.
Oh I went with the pact and chose the Imp I think, it would appear as a gray parrot on her shoulder. Imber was his name and he liked to crap on the heads of people he didn't like.
i did exactly this in the past, i mean the class combination as i wanted to do a dark jedi/sith character. hexblade 1, aberrant x. core tactics was the telekinesis spell. was fun to play and effective.
As a massive Star Wars fan, I approve!
Don't discount the Harengon race. Trust me nothing more terrifying than seeing a 4 foot Harengon chase someone through a house. I won the battle before initiative was even rolled.
Did I discount them? I've sung their praises in the past haha
@@ConstructedChaos No not at all, I was just making a blanket comment, for those who have never considered them lol
I don't think forced movement works with grasping arrow or spike growth I could be wrong
there's sage advice on this. yes it does work with grasping arrow, spike growth and any entry spells (like spirit guardians, cloud of daggers, sickening radiance, etc) or abilities (like the spreading spores of the spore druid).
@@TheRobversion1 Fair enough
"meat grinder warlock" doesn't start taking warlock levels until level 7 and can't do the meat grinder until level 10 in an edition where most campaigns end at level 5 🤔
Yep! That's why I made a few suggestions at the end of the video for lower levels of play!
Yeah, this is a pretty cool but far from optimal Fighter for a short to medium campaign.
Then if and when a sequel campaign happens later, the player has a solid plan for how to bring back the old character in a new and interesting way. It's like a western where the character starts as an outlaw, then returns years later to redeem himself as the sheriff.
Lvl 5 ... I have a new appreciation for my DM. 😁
@@theonlymatthew.l yeaahhhh pretty much every campaign I’ve ever run or been a part of has at least gotten to 7 or 8. I’m probably spoiled haha
not most campaigns end at level 5. this may be just your DM. most campaigns as per the poll in dnd beyond end at about level 10-12. basically, the most of campaign gameplay at a lot of tables now happen from tier 2-tier 3. with 5e being out for some time now, alot of tables also don't start at level 1 or tier 1 anymore based on the poll.
Okay, Spike Growth and Surge Action casting Eldritch blast, it works, but you can't add a bonus action spell on top.
quickened spike growth, two eldritch blasts for main action
Or spike growth main action, action surge arrows, and quicken eldritch blast as a bonus action (since it’s a cantrip). Im not sure what you’re trying to get at here.
@@ConstructedChaos just a slight correction Chaos, it has to be quickened spike growth, then EB action and action surge arrows.
anyway my guess is he's confused about the rules on how many spells per turn and bonus action spells limitations.
@@TheRobversion1 Yep yep, I sure do hate that bonus action spell rule. I really hope they alter that in One D&D so it's less misunderstood.
@@ConstructedChaos personally, i'd just remove the bonus action spell rule. its less confusing that way. you basically can cast as many spells as your actions (bonus action, reaction, action, action surge, contingency) allow you, cantrip or levelled.
then to put a power limitation for those multiclassing for action surge, you just put concentration on spells you think players shouldn't be able to cast with another levelled spell that turn just like what they did with spiritual weapon.
ima host a campaigne for my group where the warlock patrons are viaing for absolute supremisy for the warlock class and are at war with every other patron ( a warlock in war if you will ) will be making some custom house patrons ( like lesser patrons for more class utility or a lesser pact if you wanna call it that ) such as an imp improving on barbarian rage if a barbarian ever dabled in warlockism , or a pact with a dragon the pact only permits the player or npc whom made the pact to summon the aid of a lesser dragon who can fly no more than a city or 2 distance then cant be resummoned until the next dawn, but the giest of the campaigne will be a warlock war tearing apart the univers as powerful patrons vie for absolute power agenst another, in space with spell jammers but i have a diffrent system for the way that works since the books arnt to clear on how it exacly works, but basicly a fule sorce that can be bought and sold and mined via crystal mines, giff as space police and undead liches inspace orbiting varius worlds atop the new space whales but they are undead
Sounds like a fun campaign!! Good luck to ya!
Isn’t the armour as good as studded leather?
In this case, it actually would be, yes! I suppose you could save yourself a little gold that way!
which armor is this? armor of shadows?
@@TheRobversion1 He's talking about my choice to pick up half plate at one point in the build. It was a passing remark that I was really only bringing up to point out that you should be using armor.
This build is so disgusting and I absolutely love it
Hahaha thanks Chris! It's a fun twist on the old cheese grater to be sure!
I thought a creature had to willingly move for it take take damage from grasping arrow and spike growth, I tried doing this when I started and got reprimanded 😂
What you're thinking of is an attack of opportunity. AOO only triggers if a creature willingly moves out of range of a character within melee. Damage from grasping arrow and spike growth CAN actually be triggered by forced movement RAW!
Jerma warlock
I feel ill-informed haha. What do you mean?
@@ConstructedChaos Jerma985 is a Twitch streamer who once made a joke about putting viewers in a meat grinder. Then again, this is the "when the impostor is sus" guy we're talking about, so this joke is business as usual for him.
Additional note: a common joke in Jerma's fanbase is that Jerma himself isn't real. Considering the stuff about the meat grinder, I'd be glad. Consider looking at some of his clip compilations, they're really good.
Specifically, the "peep the horror" clip is really funny. Has me DYING of laughter everytime.
@@crashveretia8046 Haha I'll have to check that out! Thanks for filling me in!
Long due!
For sure it was!! I've been away for work the last couple of months but now I'm back at it!! :)
@@ConstructedChaos thank you Ao!
Agreed. this was promised like months ago. haha.
@@TheRobversion1 😅
Jerma985 build
Nah, fathomless patron doing the same actualy better, but without 10minutes short rest
Fathomless is great but it doesn't get spike growth. Are you insinuating that you'd get more damage/mileage out of your tentacles making opportunity attacks somehow? Because forced movement doesn't proc AOO.
@@ConstructedChaos my apologize, mistakes were made--in our campaine somebody said, that enemy takes damage, when forced to move in area of Evard's tentacles. I checked about 5 minutes ago--nope, it's only on end of the turn(
But, in other case, within area of tentacles enemy can only move about 1/4 of its normal, if you hit with your lethargy stuff. So enemy practicaly stuned and forced to take damage and cry
@@noonecan5690 no worries!! I do need to make a fathomless build soon so I’ll keep that in mind too!
@@noonecan5690 nope you were correct initially. black tentacles is an entry spell. they take dmg the 1st time they enter it on a turn and when they start on the turn. they don't take dmg at the end of the turn.
@@ConstructedChaos he'd definitely get more control. its not opportunity attacks though but grating enemies over black tentacles along with supplemental dmg from EB and tentacle of the deep. the dmg is closer than you think though at certain levels (level 10-16).
Jerma Warlock
4:16 "... end up with a video that's WAY too long."
As if I wouldn't watch. Stop threatening me with a good time.
Hahahaha challenge accepted!
tortle pirate grapple fighter
I do really need to make a grapple build for the channel! haha
@@ConstructedChaos step one convince your dm to let you carve runes on your shell
@@ConstructedChaos if it doesn't have rune knight 3 somewhere, we riot.
@@TheRobversion1 Haha noted!
I’m not gonna lie I thought this was a jerma build
Lol I found out who that is today. You’re like the 3rd person to tell me that haha
Idea: a Triton fighter/ warlock (genie) who focuses on grappling. His genie hideout is a 20x20 room completely filled with water.
In combat, he grapples his opponent, then, while “carrying” his opponent, he enters his genie hideout. Then drops his opponent and exits his hideout. His opponent is in a room completely filled with water and no exit. Unless they can breathe water, they will drown. And the triton is effectively on a different plane of existence (since the contents of the hideout are a separate mini-pocket).
I don't think that's ROI but the ROC is certainly there! I'd probably allow it as the DM! :D
This doesn't work RAW as the people entering the vessel have to be willing creatures. not saying this wont ever work though. you just need a couple of extra steps:
1. you have to charm the creature. no need to grapple. this makes them "willing" to come with out.
2. you have to ensure that you dont do anything to break the charm effect while they are inside the vessel and that you don't die inside the vessel.
@@TheRobversion1 my Triton, being a completely amphibious species, can survive in a watery environment just fine. My opponent, being an air-breathing land-lubber is in trouble.
And i can enter my genie hideout with anything i am carrying … grappled creatures can be argued to be “carried” by the grappler … thus, in the pool they go !
@@Leftists_are_Losers nope they can't RAW. of course i know what tritons can do as well. the genie's vessel requires WILLING creatures. A grappled creature is still NOT willing, hence finding a way to inflict the charmed condition.
I'll just break this whole gimmick with literally 1 boss enemy that can fly. Which is easily achievable at higher levels
doesn't make it less fun and if you do it too much it breeds GM vs players atmosphere. there's almost nothing in the game the GM can't counter. the reason these builds are popular is because in general DMs will eventually use land-based enemies. at least a few times.
I think making encounters more difficult and countering certain tactics every now and then is necessary! I just wouldn't advise hard countering your players every time. That said, this build has plenty of other warlock-y answers for that stuff anyway.
@@ConstructedChaos yeah people mistake "1-trick ponies" for "1-trick ponies". it doesnt always mean if you've got an efficient core tactic that's that the only thing you can do. that's the only thing discussed heavily in the video but you're a caster. you always have alternative options. this is why casters are superior to martials.
Frankly this build tries to do to much, and spreads itself thin as a result. Grasping shot falls off hard with this build, since it only deals the damage once per turn, and therefore is basically never a good option compared to casting spike growth, casting eldritch blast or using another option. If you want a similar build to be effective you should either focus on the sorlock aspect or be an arcane archer with a one-level (or potentially two or three level) daolock dip and crusher.
I definitely identified the same issue and suggested as much at the end of the video! ☺️
this is why he has action surge. grasping arrow and spike growth are the grinders then EB grates them over both. from a burst perspective, yes he's better of doing EB over grasping arrow with that action surge. but if the combat lasts a few more rounds, he gets more sustained value by setting up grasping arrow on turn 1. Every subsequent EB or enemy movement basically triggers both spike growth and grasping arrow.
with that said, i also personally separated my own spike growth and grasping arrow builds as combining both made the build MAD and prone to opponents just trying to break out of grasping arrow early. Chaos's build though is valid and optimal as well.
4:48 Survival and Perception on a character that dumps WIS. Nah, I'm out. Have a great vid.
Proficiencies are a hard sell for ya huh? You must love/hate bards 😂
@@ConstructedChaos Hmm. Accurate. 🤔😄
@@Samuel_Kabel in all seriousness I knew people would have issues with me taking things certain proficiencies and/or races. It’s why I put so many disclaimers about how you can always take something else if you’d rather 😊
@@ConstructedChaos Yeah, I think I get it. I help another YTber make builds occasionally. We generally skip talking about language, skill, and weapon proficiencies unless it's vital to the build.
Usually the race is more important. MoM Earth Genasi, for example, is basically irreplaceable.
This build isn't powerful or optimal. This character is an magician with only 1 trick; and a terrible trick to use if you are in party. If you are DMing and use this build to introduce one specific villain or npc, ok, I can see some benefit in that. Unprepared players may suffer and perhaps die, but anyone with some knowledge about this build won't fall into this trap.
Basically if you burn your nova turn and miss, or being unable to cast Spike Growth (actually you have farily large chance of missing or failling to setup the combo due to terrain characteristics or positioning of npcs and party members) you have no other option then retreat and short rest to try again; because you have no sustain. The damage can be fantastic but everything is chained to an specific situation that you MUST pull of, otherwise you're are nothing besides an archer. I know, I know, some of you may like that style of play; fair enough, but there's other builds that can pull this combo without abandon defense, sustain or control.
Any multiclass of Monk / Druid / Cleric / Ranger can use this combo in conjunction with many others while retain high ac, good saving throw coverage, amazing control and heal; all of that without risking party members or being restricted by terrain, items or positioning. Actually with Monk/Druid you can fight naked and be a massive treat in the battlefield.
it is powerful and optimal hence the popularity of cheese-grater builds in optimizer discussions as well as with other youtube content creators like d4 and treantmonk. i'm an optimizer as well and have played with the cheese-grater multiple times and can say it does work more than it doesnt. while i think my version is more optimal, that doesn't mean that this isn't or isn't good enough.
in 5e actually have 1 trick that's excellent is better than having multiple tricks that are mediocre. this build has excellent burst and contrary to what you said decent sustain as it does have EB. Agonizing blast is the typical sustain baseline.
you are positing a scenario that while possible is unlikely to happen. that's why he picked up extra attack. he gets 2 shots to use grasping arrow without any sharpshooter penalties. spike growth positioning is the only problem and easily solved at session zero. this is why you have a session zero. spells like this hamper melee allies. if you have melee allies, then don't play this build. in an optimal party though composed of casters and ranged martials this build shines because no one is in melee and spike growth can be placed freely.
he's not abandoning control. grasping arrow + spike growth + forced movement provides speed reduction control. it's like you're saying a spirit guardians user is abandoning control. he has dmg (both burst and sustained) AND control. no need for defense really if you want to be optimal in 5e as the optimal style in 5e is to go 1st (good initiative) and either kill enemies (striking) or contol.
he doesn't need to retreat because at worst as you said he's an archer. An archer with forced movement. that's a decent thing in 5e. EB spam is decent in 5e. thats why it's the common baseline.
and funny you mention the monk and criticize this for being sub-optimal. anything you add monk to, the worst class in the game, is bound to be sub-optimal. in most builds at least with a few exceptions like the gunk.
I respect your opinion here, Rodrigo. But, you've got some pretty big misgivings about builds like this one. I'll keep things short by simply stating that the damage output on something like this can be pretty insane and it comes with free battlefield control and forced movement. At worst (and if you can't fire off spike growth), you're an interesting blend of support warlock with more hitpoints, action surge, etc.
eww ai generated art
Haha I think you'd be surprised at how much of it was AI-generated without you noticing. But there were some in there I wasn't super happy with. At the end of the day, I'm just trying to make sure I don't trample over any copyrights.
D&D One sucks.
I do think it's getting better with each UA they release but it's definitely not perfect and it's impossible to please everyone. What don't you like about it so far?
Builds are what's wrong with modern games.
I respectfully disagree. Take note of the great efforts I've put into the story involved with this character. It is possible to have an effective "build" and fantastic role-play and story. They aren't mutually exclusive--though I used to think the same thing.
@@ConstructedChaos I've been at this for 26 years, I firmly disagree.
Builds are definitely over-emphasized on the internet side of roleplaying, but I do not see how they are what is wrong. Can you please elaborate?
@@midnightgreen8319 nobody is stopping you from playing the way you want to play, friend. In the same breath, you can’t chastise people for having the kind of fun they want to have. That’s just not right.
@@midnightgreen8319 Did you forget about the Stormwind fallacy?