Everybody remembers the "Black Summer" decks, but they always seem to forget the 4x Aeolipile in the first run of the discard decks of this type. The Nevinyrral's Disks were also there specifically for the oft-lamented Whirling Dervish beats.
Actually the Pro Tour 1 New York 1996 was Type 2 (Standard) 4th Edition, Fallen Empires, Homelands, Chronicles and Ice Age had a special stipulation that you had to play at least 5 cards from each set. 80+% I believe were playing some form of Necropotence. And since Ice Age added another pump knight to both white and black, people were really concerned with anti-black meta (Elvish Archers, Llanowar Elves and Birds Of Paradise, maybe). So the meta was heavily concerned with Black Knight and pump knights since many decks were running 10 or more Knights. So to fulfill both the 5x/set requirement especially for the sets full of unplayable cards and to handle double-digit knights with only 4x Lightning Bolts available...IF you were even playing red, people played with the following artifacts: Aeolipile FE, Yotian Soldier CH, Serrated Arrows H. So all of those cards helped fill up 4 of the 5x requirements and worked against knights. But this was in the spring of 1996 (my pal top 8'ed that event, so did two of my fave players, Bertrand and Hammer). At Worlds, which was in the summer of 1996 (August), it was just straight forward Standard and so I'm not sure how many Aeolipile's were played since there was no Fallen Empires requirement. Also, Nevinyrral's Disk was in mono black mainly to control the permanents in the mirror match (you force people to play out there permanents when they shouldn't or hold on to permanents) and to get rid of your own Necropotence so you can draw naturally during draw phase. Of course the card is versatile enough to get rid of all sorts of stuff, of which Dervish is one.
I only run one Strip in the deck because in addition to the one Strip I have a Maze and 4 Mishra’s taking up land drops. Need that double black to get going. Was a fun match. 👍🏻
I saw that. As a mono black player in 94 who won many tournaments against many very serious decks, “devotion” to black is very serious. Black’s curve is one mana higher because unlike white, green and red, black doesn’t have a key one mana spell or creature. In a sense it’s like blue except with Dark Ritual. Red has the two bolts and Kird Ape, green has elves and birds, white has Savannah Lions. One spell that only costs B that is severely underplayed is Evil Presence. Turn your Maze into a swamp, turn your Factory into a swamp, turn your first turn dual land (like Volcanic or Taiga) into a swamp, turn your Library into a swamp, it’s very versatile.
@@Rorschachqp Hi did you run Nevinyrral's Disk as well? I run couple even though I find it a little slow in OS 93/94. I added a few Evil Prescence to my budget mono black ATL deck & have liked them. What about your thoughts on the rack? I took them for the disks.
While I agree with the double black commitment, I think 4 strips is an auto include in EC. In combination with sinkhole it makes your land destruction element stronger. Try adding a couple of Initiates of the Ebon Hand for some mana fixing.
@@RA-jk9qd Disk is a good card for MBA because it covers a lot that Black can’t handle…except Maze. I didn’t run it. My deck was hyper aggro, your typical hit them fast with creatures, some disruption via discard and Evil Presence, kill with X (Drain Life). Very reliable strat especially since black can be hyper aggro and the knight creatures can be extremely durable. Later, this other person in my play group decided to go the Sink Hole, Strip Mine, Paralyze package, which is too slow for 94/95 constructed. Drain Life > Paralyze. Some time during this period, people decided to put Juzam in an in literally one day it went from $6 junk U1 to $75. About a year later, another player added disk because my mono black became all the rage in LA/OC and disk was insanely good in the mirror. A few months later when Ice Age came out, as a joke, my pals did a “I can beat you with bad cards because I’m much better than you” challenge and Necropotence was born. So in history, Disk got in there before Necro. The Sink Hole player and the Disk player are both famous players in the history of Magic.
@@TimmytheSorcerer yeah, Hurricane is much more universal and is a finisher in and of itself, I just thought about Winter blast watching your first game when you struggled to break through defence and deal the last points of damage :)
@@TimmytheSorcerer The best thing is when you don't have Hurricane, opponent has less life than you and knows it, and you ask them "how much life are you at"? "Why?" "Just asking ;)"
Timmy, I would remove the Sprites and instead run Whirling Dervish mainboard. Then you can run 3 or 4x Hurricanes (Or stick to 2x and play 4x Birds.). Spider is underrated, it wouldn't be crazy to run more since when they double block, they kill vampires, angels, etc. Also, "pure" and "baloney" don't belong together, lol. (Because baloney is anything but pure)
Good points. I'll have to have a closer look at my curve. Not sure about the birds, bc they don’t hurt and can’t be pumped by pendel. Also die to the hurricanes 🤔
I like this strategy, but instead of 4 birds maybe 2 birds a sol ring and a green mox. The mana acceleration will help pump the hurricanes. I always thought the Citanul druid was interesting, but it is never played...perhaps it is too easy of a target. Also Desert twist goes with land destruction theme, but it is versatile though it is expensive.
I like the archers over pixies if you know you're going against order of the ebon hand. Cool meta call. Archer is also cool to kinda fight off factory since you are trying to destroy some lands.
I think overall if you’re running Giant Growth or running 4x Archer or both, Elvish Archers are better. They can double block. I would keep them in even with boarding in Dervish.
I don’t have that problem in this mono G deck, but as soon as another colour(s) comes in or when I try to play more mid-range and/or control, the mana base problems start.. That’s what I find hard about ec. It really seems to be a format suited for mono coloured aggro decks.
@TimmytheSorcerer I stupidly posted that before you won. Lol. But yes in multi color it's more of a problem. 4 strips is a bit too much usually. I've found 2 is the right number. One for early mana denial and the second in case a power land like LOA, Workshop, Maze, etc drops later so you can deal with it.
As a native English speaker baloney is a funny word! It's also delicious fried with slice of cheese melted on top and little mustard...trashy...but good! 🤣
Initially, I wanted the deck to be 4th and Chr only, that's why it's missing regrowth, but I needed Berserk too bad, so I decided otherwise :) Fun fact: I once played this deck as an uber budget brew for $10 at as a tournament challenge. There was a prize for cheapest deck that had the best results. Came pretty close.
@@TimmytheSorcerer Well, you are playing by the berserk rules, which is, if you have them, play them. :) gotta get you some 4th Ed trikes then :) Yeah it’s so silly how they thought regrowth was basically a power card and deemed to powerful to be reprinted in 4th like the duals :(
@@ibanezleftyclub That's because it was. They didn't get all of the crazy cards from ABU out of the core set until 5th edition. Some disgusting cards to Regrow-th, if Regrowth was in 4th: Channel, Mind Twist, Balance, Blood Moon, Strip Mine, etc. Basically Regrowth is as good as the possible and likely cards you have in your graveyard.
Ivory Tower is viable in blue decks and best in Millstone decks running Demonic Tutor, Braingeyser, Ancestral, Timetwister. If you run 4x Tower, 4x Copy Artifact and 4x Millstone plus all the rest is control, the Tower is broken. Usually mono colored decks are not good with Tower except for maybe mono blue Stasis. No point in holding cards in hand to trigger Tower when you have a homogeneous mana base.
Only running two Rituals because whenever I run 4 I always end up holding at least one in my hand that ends up being useless cause I draw it late in the game.
@@TonyWZ1079 If you run more Drain Life, which you’re also low on, top decking Dark Ritual can become huge. Also, since you’re running so many 2 or more toughness creatures plus four Factories and a Bad Moon, one Pestilence might be interesting.
@@RorschachqpI do have an extra Drain Life in the SB and I had two in the main in the original version of the deck. Wasn’t working out for me though with two. Was drawing one early a lot and it wasn’t doing me a whole lot of good. Pestilence is an idea. Maybe I’ll try one out in the SB to start and see how it works out. Thanks for the suggestions. Appreciated. 👍🏻
Posting this before I even watch the video - Discard v Land Destruction? There is no one who I want to cheer for. There is no win. These decks deserve to face each other. 🤣
@@TimmytheSorcerer I am up to about 8 OS decks now so that's a tough one (proxies are key to have so many decks). My top 3 decks are the one that you faced last year (Underworld Dreams), my 100% all artifact deck (similar to yours), and Mono Red Goblins because Goblin Grenade is fun. The two decks I refuse to build are Turbo Stasis and Land Destruction due to poor player experience. Discard is rude, but opponents can sometimes play through the pain. My green budget is more for the fun of getting a Force of Nature out Turn 3. I have a version of 4-color good stuff, Pink Weenie (which loses), Red Green aggro, Merfolk, Black/Red (Juzam, Hyppy, Sedge...), and currently working on a deck with 8 Serendibs.
I don't appreciate the snarky tone against people who have been living under a rock since 1994. Rocks are a perfectly decent means of living arrangements, and 1994 was a good time to go off-grid. We are people just like you and deserve respect!
I consider Maze like Icy Manipulator…a C-tier card at best in the playable cards. It’s not S tier like Chaos Orb, Mind Twist, Balance, Black Lotus, Channel, Sol Ring, Timetwister. It’s not A tier like Ancestral Recall, Lightning Bolt, Disenchant, Hymn, Fork, Time Walk, Underworld Dreams, Library, Moxen. Then there’s Jayemdae Tome, Strip Mine, Chain Lightning, Swords, etc. Maze is below that. Circumstantially good but doesn’t win or soft lock the game in one turn, nor do you play 4 in every deck and the cards can be totally useless in many situations…and you die if you draw 3 in opening hand.
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Everybody remembers the "Black Summer" decks, but they always seem to forget the 4x Aeolipile in the first run of the discard decks of this type. The Nevinyrral's Disks were also there specifically for the oft-lamented Whirling Dervish beats.
Actually the Pro Tour 1 New York 1996 was Type 2 (Standard) 4th Edition, Fallen Empires, Homelands, Chronicles and Ice Age had a special stipulation that you had to play at least 5 cards from each set. 80+% I believe were playing some form of Necropotence. And since Ice Age added another pump knight to both white and black, people were really concerned with anti-black meta (Elvish Archers, Llanowar Elves and Birds Of Paradise, maybe). So the meta was heavily concerned with Black Knight and pump knights since many decks were running 10 or more Knights. So to fulfill both the 5x/set requirement especially for the sets full of unplayable cards and to handle double-digit knights with only 4x Lightning Bolts available...IF you were even playing red, people played with the following artifacts: Aeolipile FE, Yotian Soldier CH, Serrated Arrows H. So all of those cards helped fill up 4 of the 5x requirements and worked against knights.
But this was in the spring of 1996 (my pal top 8'ed that event, so did two of my fave players, Bertrand and Hammer). At Worlds, which was in the summer of 1996 (August), it was just straight forward Standard and so I'm not sure how many Aeolipile's were played since there was no Fallen Empires requirement. Also, Nevinyrral's Disk was in mono black mainly to control the permanents in the mirror match (you force people to play out there permanents when they shouldn't or hold on to permanents) and to get rid of your own Necropotence so you can draw naturally during draw phase. Of course the card is versatile enough to get rid of all sorts of stuff, of which Dervish is one.
I only run one Strip in the deck because in addition to the one Strip I have a Maze and 4 Mishra’s taking up land drops. Need that double black to get going. Was a fun match. 👍🏻
I saw that. As a mono black player in 94 who won many tournaments against many very serious decks, “devotion” to black is very serious. Black’s curve is one mana higher because unlike white, green and red, black doesn’t have a key one mana spell or creature. In a sense it’s like blue except with Dark Ritual. Red has the two bolts and Kird Ape, green has elves and birds, white has Savannah Lions.
One spell that only costs B that is severely underplayed is Evil Presence. Turn your Maze into a swamp, turn your Factory into a swamp, turn your first turn dual land (like Volcanic or Taiga) into a swamp, turn your Library into a swamp, it’s very versatile.
Thanks for sharing Tony, it was a fun and close match :))
@@Rorschachqp Hi did you run Nevinyrral's Disk as well? I run couple even though I find it a little slow in OS 93/94. I added a few Evil Prescence to my budget mono black ATL deck & have liked them. What about your thoughts on the rack? I took them for the disks.
While I agree with the double black commitment, I think 4 strips is an auto include in EC. In combination with sinkhole it makes your land destruction element stronger. Try adding a couple of Initiates of the Ebon Hand for some mana fixing.
@@RA-jk9qd Disk is a good card for MBA because it covers a lot that Black can’t handle…except Maze.
I didn’t run it. My deck was hyper aggro, your typical hit them fast with creatures, some disruption via discard and Evil Presence, kill with X (Drain Life). Very reliable strat especially since black can be hyper aggro and the knight creatures can be extremely durable. Later, this other person in my play group decided to go the Sink Hole, Strip Mine, Paralyze package, which is too slow for 94/95 constructed. Drain Life > Paralyze. Some time during this period, people decided to put Juzam in an in literally one day it went from $6 junk U1 to $75. About a year later, another player added disk because my mono black became all the rage in LA/OC and disk was insanely good in the mirror.
A few months later when Ice Age came out, as a joke, my pals did a “I can beat you with bad cards because I’m much better than you” challenge and Necropotence was born. So in history, Disk got in there before Necro. The Sink Hole player and the Disk player are both famous players in the history of Magic.
Would love to see how Winter Blast works in the green deck in this matchup!
They’re great against the hippies, but besides that I think Hurricane’s better 🤔
@@TimmytheSorcerer yeah, Hurricane is much more universal and is a finisher in and of itself, I just thought about Winter blast watching your first game when you struggled to break through defence and deal the last points of damage :)
@@TimmytheSorcerer The best thing is when you don't have Hurricane, opponent has less life than you and knows it, and you ask them "how much life are you at"? "Why?" "Just asking ;)"
crispy footage. great camera!!
Thanks
Timmy, I would remove the Sprites and instead run Whirling Dervish mainboard. Then you can run 3 or 4x Hurricanes (Or stick to 2x and play 4x Birds.). Spider is underrated, it wouldn't be crazy to run more since when they double block, they kill vampires, angels, etc.
Also, "pure" and "baloney" don't belong together, lol. (Because baloney is anything but pure)
Good points. I'll have to have a closer look at my curve. Not sure about the birds, bc they don’t hurt and can’t be pumped by pendel. Also die to the hurricanes 🤔
I like this strategy, but instead of 4 birds maybe 2 birds a sol ring and a green mox. The mana acceleration will help pump the hurricanes.
I always thought the Citanul druid was interesting, but it is never played...perhaps it is too easy of a target. Also Desert twist goes with land destruction theme, but it is versatile though it is expensive.
I like the archers over pixies if you know you're going against order of the ebon hand. Cool meta call. Archer is also cool to kinda fight off factory since you are trying to destroy some lands.
Thanks, I was happy with hoe that worked out. Really enjoyed this match more than I expected.
I think overall if you’re running Giant Growth or running 4x Archer or both, Elvish Archers are better. They can double block. I would keep them in even with boarding in Dervish.
Yeah in EC you have to decide 4 strips or 4 factories. Running all 8 can really mess up your mana base unless you are playing Robots.
I don’t have that problem in this mono G deck, but as soon as another colour(s) comes in or when I try to play more mid-range and/or control, the mana base problems start.. That’s what I find hard about ec. It really seems to be a format suited for mono coloured aggro decks.
@TimmytheSorcerer I stupidly posted that before you won. Lol. But yes in multi color it's more of a problem. 4 strips is a bit too much usually. I've found 2 is the right number. One for early mana denial and the second in case a power land like LOA, Workshop, Maze, etc drops later so you can deal with it.
Interestingly, most of the tier 1 decks in 1994-95 constructed ran no Strips and no Factories.
@@Rorschachqp this is completly false. The mulligan rule at the time was really punishing, so most deck ran 2-4 strip mine.
@@JKeays100 Really? Like what tier 1 deck ran 2-4 Strip Mines? And elaborate on exactly what the mulligan rules were.
As a native English speaker baloney is a funny word! It's also delicious fried with slice of cheese melted on top and little mustard...trashy...but good! 🤣
Add a tomato with some salt!
Isn’t it spelled bologna ?
@@harinarain09 both ways are acceptable but baloney is funnier
I’d probably run a few trikes in the SB to help with things like hippies and other pesky creatures. Also, no regrowth?
Initially, I wanted the deck to be 4th and Chr only, that's why it's missing regrowth, but I needed Berserk too bad, so I decided otherwise :)
Fun fact: I once played this deck as an uber budget brew for $10 at as a tournament challenge. There was a prize for cheapest deck that had the best results. Came pretty close.
@@TimmytheSorcerer Well, you are playing by the berserk rules, which is, if you have them, play them. :) gotta get you some 4th Ed trikes then :) Yeah it’s so silly how they thought regrowth was basically a power card and deemed to powerful to be reprinted in 4th like the duals :(
@@ibanezleftyclub That's because it was. They didn't get all of the crazy cards from ABU out of the core set until 5th edition. Some disgusting cards to Regrow-th, if Regrowth was in 4th: Channel, Mind Twist, Balance, Blood Moon, Strip Mine, etc. Basically Regrowth is as good as the possible and likely cards you have in your graveyard.
Ivory Tower was mandatory to help fight off the 4 Black Vise your opponents were running
With mono green I usually empty my hand in no time.
Ivory Tower is viable in blue decks and best in Millstone decks running Demonic Tutor, Braingeyser, Ancestral, Timetwister. If you run 4x Tower, 4x Copy Artifact and 4x Millstone plus all the rest is control, the Tower is broken.
Usually mono colored decks are not good with Tower except for maybe mono blue Stasis.
No point in holding cards in hand to trigger Tower when you have a homogeneous mana base.
Timmy, as a native English speaker, I fully endorse the use of the word “baloney” 👍
🙌
"Hand destruction vs Land destruction
Short games, more time for beer :D
I am near new here I wanna shout out to the bottomless pit
only 2 dark rituals what is the logic behind that
There's a few things wrong here but yeah.
Only running two Rituals because whenever I run 4 I always end up holding at least one in my hand that ends up being useless cause I draw it late in the game.
@@TonyWZ1079 If you run more Drain Life, which you’re also low on, top decking Dark Ritual can become huge. Also, since you’re running so many 2 or more toughness creatures plus four Factories and a Bad Moon, one Pestilence might be interesting.
@@RorschachqpI do have an extra Drain Life in the SB and I had two in the main in the original version of the deck. Wasn’t working out for me though with two. Was drawing one early a lot and it wasn’t doing me a whole lot of good. Pestilence is an idea. Maybe I’ll try one out in the SB to start and see how it works out. Thanks for the suggestions. Appreciated. 👍🏻
My deck has 4 rituals and 2 drainlife...makes mind twist brutal and drainlife in late game...add some howl from beyond just in case
Posting this before I even watch the video - Discard v Land Destruction? There is no one who I want to cheer for. There is no win. These decks deserve to face each other. 🤣
Let's say you're going to an EC event tomorrow, what kind of deck would you bring to the table?
@@TimmytheSorcerer I am up to about 8 OS decks now so that's a tough one (proxies are key to have so many decks). My top 3 decks are the one that you faced last year (Underworld Dreams), my 100% all artifact deck (similar to yours), and Mono Red Goblins because Goblin Grenade is fun. The two decks I refuse to build are Turbo Stasis and Land Destruction due to poor player experience. Discard is rude, but opponents can sometimes play through the pain.
My green budget is more for the fun of getting a Force of Nature out Turn 3. I have a version of 4-color good stuff, Pink Weenie (which loses), Red Green aggro, Merfolk, Black/Red (Juzam, Hyppy, Sedge...), and currently working on a deck with 8 Serendibs.
You want Timmy to Hurricane to a draw every game 😂
I don't appreciate the snarky tone against people who have been living under a rock since 1994. Rocks are a perfectly decent means of living arrangements, and 1994 was a good time to go off-grid. We are people just like you and deserve respect!
🙌😂
Get back under your 🪨. Who let you out of your Oubliette? 😆
Maze of ith not being legendary is crazy lol
Why? For flavor?
It used to be restricted
Even though I run more than one (1 in main and 1 in board) I think Maze should still be restricted.
I consider Maze like Icy Manipulator…a C-tier card at best in the playable cards. It’s not S tier like Chaos Orb, Mind Twist, Balance, Black Lotus, Channel, Sol Ring, Timetwister.
It’s not A tier like Ancestral Recall, Lightning Bolt, Disenchant, Hymn, Fork, Time Walk, Underworld Dreams, Library, Moxen.
Then there’s Jayemdae Tome, Strip Mine, Chain Lightning, Swords, etc.
Maze is below that. Circumstantially good but doesn’t win or soft lock the game in one turn, nor do you play 4 in every deck and the cards can be totally useless in many situations…and you die if you draw 3 in opening hand.
Maze was restricted as soon as it came out. It overpowers the creature decks.
You started off the game by Hymning yourself 😧
:D True, wasn't the best start
It’s ok, we got him to the emergency room on time, haha