Wow, that's so cool! I had no idea! It's a genius idea! And back then they had no gyrostabilizers. The torsion bars is what you'd rely on for a smooth ride, which is crucial when working in a tank!
Great video. I've always wondered how the suspension works in tanks, and even though I'm a long-time scale modeller, this is a simple, easy to understand demonstration. I'd love to see more videos like this.
Thank you very much for the demonstration! I've had problems trying to visualize this, since I'm not that good with land-based tech. Videos like this used to be the norm, while nowadays people stuff their videos with useless fluff, trying desperately to get to ten minutes. Again, thank you! 😁👍
Great video! The most concise, easily understandable example I've seen on YT. Oh... 2 beautiful women who dream about Panther tanks and mechanical devices? My God, you're lucky!
after years of confusion it finally makes sense how this works haha. funny that after a few searches I couldn't find anything on the Abrams suspension since I thought I'd see how it's applied on modern vehicles.
Very cool approximated operating system there, congrats to all. Initially I thought the 2nd torsion bar would be geared off the 1st/primary one, but this twist & rocking bending method seems to work well too ..even if it the materials aren't scaled in relative properties and sizes to actual, it still shows enough to get the gist of it.
congratulations for this clear explanation! Just one question: what are the advantages of such suspensions over the others? I mean: examining the real suspension system of a panther (Panther tank suspension and torsion bar details), it results very clear the big amount of "expensive materials" involved ,and the engineering complexity (both to produce and maintenance); therefore, we can see with our eyes and comprehend the unanimous critics of the complexity and expensiveness of the Panther, in time of extreme war need and economy. So why the Germans opted for it, if it was so clearly materially and handwork demanding ?
The advantages are that the majority of the components are within the armour's protection, and despite the crammed appearance inside the hull it is actually quite compact (if you were to have equivelant suspending capacity in leaf or coil springs they would actually require more metal) especially given the 16 road wheels. The main reason why the Panther ended up with torsion bars has more, I think, to do with it being a choice that was determined by other choices. They opted for the big wheels and slack track of the Christie system but wanted more road wheels than Christie's system could accommodate, to spread the weight of larger hulls. With 8 pairs of interleaved road wheels the ground pressure at each wheel is much less, but torsion bar suspension becomes the only type available that could provide the necessary suspension travel on that number of wheels without either restricting interior space to an unacceptable degree, or leaving the suspension outside the main hull, which leaves it vulnerable. History seems to have judged the German engineers as being right, but at the wrong time. It's undoubted that they created one of the best off-road rides of the war, but the complicated, expensive and difficult to maintain system was one of the factors in the limited numbers of machines that were available at crucial points in the conflict.
To add a little bit to what Golly Po already summed up. This is the Panther suspension over a 1 km long undulated track: 1.bp.blogspot.com/-hJUYxlkwLYk/UMRnXfJR9VI/AAAAAAAAAls/qq_QdwXHQoE/s1600/kummersdorf%2Btest.jpg Notice how it can go way faster than contemporary tanks, and also with much less pitching motion.
Richardsen that's brilliant! It's true what they say about a picture being worth a thousand words. I've never seen that graph before, *saved*! It seems from those results that the chassis was maybe more of a contributing factor to the reputation of the Jagdpanther as the best TD of the war than I thought. Observation from a more stable vehicle is easier, even if firing on the move isn't an issue, and I would also imagine that the recoil forces would also result in less pitching which would means faster re-acquisition of a target between shots. Thanks for posting that, very informative.
Golly Po You are welcome! The unprecedent stability allowed for incredible off road speeds for a tank of its time. About recoil forces: I do not know about the PaK 43 on the Jagdpanther, but the Panther definitely didn´t feel the KwK 42 firing. The 45 tonnes of the vehicle made it a very stable firing platform, even when firing sideways. And that is considering a tank that has a somewhat high center of gravity. Source: post war French studies of their operational use of Panthers.
The best design is nearly always the simplest solution. Thank you for downloading this! I wonder if the bearings could be greased for maintenance reasons, when so low down in the tank chassis?
Thanks for this video. Super old but maybe you can still change the title into something with turion bar suspension. I was looking for it and, to be honest, i wasnt expecting much when i opend the video. Plesent surprise!
Cool video, dude. Some things never change, I just about shit myself when I saw your channel. Reminds of the days of alcohol, tobacco and firearms at 221 Grant.
My question is, how do you get these girls to spend their time to help you with this video? You clearly have something on them haha. And of course, this is a timeless, simple design.
@teammokong Modern torsion bars are of better quality and materials. Not sure how they are being used today. Shock absorbers play a very important role in controlling the motion of the tank while it's moving.
The PzKpfw IV had simple leaf springs! A very outdated construction when compared to the Panther. And even the PzKpfw III had a single torsion bar suspension.
***** i guess i should get a refund for my engineering degree then. no, it wasn't in automotive engineering, but I like to think I have the background to understand mechanical principles--which in this case I do. "I don't understand it" doesn't mean I don't get how it works. I don't understand why this is a better solution to the problem than other methods. Obviously I'm not an idiot or else this would be the standard suspension system for modern vehicles.
***** the issue isn't with torsion bars. its with this particular setup. this isn't just a "torsion bar" suspension. they added a whole other dimension to it and the justification for it is not apparant to me, which is why I said "i don't understand why anybody would do this", not "i don't understand how torsion bar suspensions work."
+raglanheuser They did it because then they had no material available for the rods that would withstand the forces and fit the width of the tank so they effectively doubled the width of the tank. Now better materials available for making the rod.
Well here's your trade-off, you either have 2 smaller / skinnier bars like this or 1 larger bar that is fixed at the end (most torsion bar tanks). I'm guessing the 2 smaller ones were chosen because they were either easier to manufacture or they had a shortage of material or machinery to make the larger bars
This system is per one wheel, one the other side the swing arm would face the other way , thus right and left side system would occupy symmetric space, pictures would explain better
@@Cormano980 not really, one side of the wheels will be asymmetrical as they will have to be a couple of centimetres away from the other sides' torsion bar mechanism. The result is that one of the two tracks is just slightly ahead of the other. Though that doesn't really matter when you are going 30 kmph most of the time.
I have searched so long for a simple mechanical demonstration such as this.
Same
Wow, that's so cool! I had no idea! It's a genius idea! And back then they had no gyrostabilizers. The torsion bars is what you'd rely on for a smooth ride, which is crucial when working in a tank!
Yeah the germans weren't big on gryos for the main gun of the tank so they figured why make the gun stable when you can make the whole thing stable
Best video on UA-cam EVER
high praise indeed
Advantage is more "wheel travel". More suspension travel can increase your off road stability for more speed, or a more stable gun platform.
@Joseph Satri Cleofe Villanueva YES!
@josephsatricleofevillanuev3194 this and the forward transmission
Thank you very much for this demonstration, never worked on a car with torsion bars and was REALLY confused how the suspension worked.
Great video. I've always wondered how the suspension works in tanks, and even though I'm a long-time scale modeller, this is a simple, easy to understand demonstration.
I'd love to see more videos like this.
its so wild seeing a suspension like this, its like a spring, but just straight. it makes sense for weight reasons. very cool to see.
Thank you very much for the demonstration! I've had problems trying to visualize this, since I'm not that good with land-based tech.
Videos like this used to be the norm, while nowadays people stuff their videos with useless fluff, trying desperately to get to ten minutes.
Again, thank you! 😁👍
This is an easy to understand demonstration and explanation. Thank You!
Great video! The most concise, easily understandable example I've seen on YT.
Oh...
2 beautiful women who dream about Panther tanks and mechanical devices? My God, you're lucky!
thank you sir, I've been looking for a video on how this works.😊
Simple explanation and great demonstration.
Thank you for your clear explanation and model.
after years of confusion it finally makes sense how this works haha. funny that after a few searches I couldn't find anything on the Abrams suspension since I thought I'd see how it's applied on modern vehicles.
This is AMAZING...this guy should construct a FULL SIZE GERMAN TANK!
Great video! Some interesting engineering going on there..
Amazing and informative video! Thanks!
Great, simple explanation. This is how videos are ought to be made. Thanks @
RandyBriscoe.
Great explanation. Thank you.
I made a lego tank using this design, works really well
Awesome!!! It is so clear now. 👍🏻
Very cool approximated operating system there, congrats to all. Initially I thought the 2nd torsion bar would be geared off the 1st/primary one, but this twist & rocking bending method seems to work well too ..even if it the materials aren't scaled in relative properties and sizes to actual, it still shows enough to get the gist of it.
Ancient technology it is ! Good video well done .
congratulations for this clear explanation! Just one question: what are the advantages of such suspensions over the others? I mean: examining the real suspension system of a panther (Panther tank suspension and torsion bar details), it results very clear the big amount of "expensive materials" involved ,and the engineering complexity (both to produce and maintenance); therefore, we can see with our eyes and comprehend the unanimous critics of the complexity and expensiveness of the Panther, in time of extreme war need and economy.
So why the Germans opted for it, if it was so clearly materially and handwork demanding ?
The advantages are that the majority of the components are within the armour's protection, and despite the crammed appearance inside the hull it is actually quite compact (if you were to have equivelant suspending capacity in leaf or coil springs they would actually require more metal) especially given the 16 road wheels.
The main reason why the Panther ended up with torsion bars has more, I think, to do with it being a choice that was determined by other choices. They opted for the big wheels and slack track of the Christie system but wanted more road wheels than Christie's system could accommodate, to spread the weight of larger hulls. With 8 pairs of interleaved road wheels the ground pressure at each wheel is much less, but torsion bar suspension becomes the only type available that could provide the necessary suspension travel on that number of wheels without either restricting interior space to an unacceptable degree, or leaving the suspension outside the main hull, which leaves it vulnerable.
History seems to have judged the German engineers as being right, but at the wrong time. It's undoubted that they created one of the best off-road rides of the war, but the complicated, expensive and difficult to maintain system was one of the factors in the limited numbers of machines that were available at crucial points in the conflict.
To add a little bit to what Golly Po already summed up. This is the Panther suspension over a 1 km long undulated track: 1.bp.blogspot.com/-hJUYxlkwLYk/UMRnXfJR9VI/AAAAAAAAAls/qq_QdwXHQoE/s1600/kummersdorf%2Btest.jpg
Notice how it can go way faster than contemporary tanks, and also with much less pitching motion.
Richardsen
that's brilliant! It's true what they say about a picture being worth a thousand words. I've never seen that graph before, *saved*!
It seems from those results that the chassis was maybe more of a contributing factor to the reputation of the Jagdpanther as the best TD of the war than I thought. Observation from a more stable vehicle is easier, even if firing on the move isn't an issue, and I would also imagine that the recoil forces would also result in less pitching which would means faster re-acquisition of a target between shots.
Thanks for posting that, very informative.
Golly Po
You are welcome! The unprecedent stability allowed for incredible off road speeds for a tank of its time.
About recoil forces: I do not know about the PaK 43 on the Jagdpanther, but the Panther definitely didn´t feel the KwK 42 firing. The 45 tonnes of the vehicle made it a very stable firing platform, even when firing sideways. And that is considering a tank that has a somewhat high center of gravity.
Source: post war French studies of their operational use of Panthers.
@@VRichardsn great find!
The best design is nearly always the simplest solution. Thank you for downloading this! I wonder if the bearings could be greased for maintenance reasons, when so low down in the tank chassis?
I believe as on other panzers, there were bracketed clusters of lubrication subsystem pipe's nipplevalves.
Pretty cool! I thought it was just a simple torsion bar crossing the chassis with the harms at the ends ...pretty interesting..
Those 8 dislikes came from people who work at The Coil and Leaf Spring Factory
Very simple to work and produce but hard idea to create .
Thanks for this video. Super old but maybe you can still change the title into something with turion bar suspension. I was looking for it and, to be honest, i wasnt expecting much when i opend the video. Plesent surprise!
Question, how many degrees does a real Panther tank suspension arm move?
Cool video, dude. Some things never change, I just about shit myself when I saw your channel. Reminds of the days of alcohol, tobacco and firearms at 221 Grant.
My question is, how do you get these girls to spend their time to help you with this video? You clearly have something on them haha. And of course, this is a timeless, simple design.
Wow I finally found girls who share my intrests
@WabbitWounds Both Tigers had a single torsion bars per swing arm. One bar provides far less travel, and must be larger in diameter.
thanks I wondered how it worked
Thank you so much
New life goal, have daughters who like tanks.
so should it be hard to push the lever up?
how do you keep the wheel from going up on its own?
Yes it's hard to push up. The bars are spring steel that you are twisting.
Thanks
I thought that went across, and then it was able to twist and a tube around it twisted, like a modern tank
Torsion bar suspension still used today! Like on the Leo 2 and the M1 Abrams.
hmmm, what about the tiger? i am building one in 1/35 scale and the suspension is different.
nicely illustrated and very informative :)
I believe the Tiger B/Bengal-Tiger/King-Tiger also uses this style too,
Хорошие девочки
Nice.
@teammokong Modern torsion bars are of better quality and materials. Not sure how they are being used today. Shock absorbers play a very important role in controlling the motion of the tank while it's moving.
Wouldn’t the bar break
The PzKpfw IV had simple leaf springs! A very outdated construction when compared to the Panther. And even the PzKpfw III had a single torsion bar suspension.
You got like from me
this was a great explanation. but i still dont understand why anybody would think to do this. it just seems wasteful on so many levels.
***** i guess i should get a refund for my engineering degree then.
no, it wasn't in automotive engineering, but I like to think I have the background to understand mechanical principles--which in this case I do. "I don't understand it" doesn't mean I don't get how it works. I don't understand why this is a better solution to the problem than other methods. Obviously I'm not an idiot or else this would be the standard suspension system for modern vehicles.
***** the issue isn't with torsion bars. its with this particular setup. this isn't just a "torsion bar" suspension. they added a whole other dimension to it and the justification for it is not apparant to me, which is why I said "i don't understand why anybody would do this", not "i don't understand how torsion bar suspensions work."
+raglanheuser They did it because then they had no material available for the rods that would withstand the forces and fit the width of the tank so they effectively doubled the width of the tank. Now better materials available for making the rod.
2nolhta see? now thats the kind of answer i was looking for. thank you.
Well here's your trade-off, you either have 2 smaller / skinnier bars like this or 1 larger bar that is fixed at the end (most torsion bar tanks). I'm guessing the 2 smaller ones were chosen because they were either easier to manufacture or they had a shortage of material or machinery to make the larger bars
Stupid question, how would it work if there were wheels on both sides of the model you are demonstrating
This system is per one wheel, one the other side the swing arm would face the other way , thus right and left side system would occupy symmetric space, pictures would explain better
@@Cormano980 not really, one side of the wheels will be asymmetrical as they will have to be a couple of centimetres away from the other sides' torsion bar mechanism.
The result is that one of the two tracks is just slightly ahead of the other. Though that doesn't really matter when you are going 30 kmph most of the time.
I dream to have such girls 😂❤
Lol I thought those two bars were for structural support
inaccurate, didn't snap after 5 feet of movement.
Isnt panther using christy suspension?
the pivot point of the block on the other side should be in line with the second torsion spring look closely: ua-cam.com/video/aS3rP7rLJN4/v-deo.html
Leopard 2 suspension disassembled i.imgur [dot] com/d1Wulat.jpg