You forgot to mention the sibling entry that calls them a fragment of a lingering will. And steel soul Jinn says the knight has a will of it's own when you refuse to trade with her. And Hornet says multiple times that the knight has a choice. And the white lady questions whether or not the knight hollow once you get the void heart. And in general, characters that are aware of the nature of the vessels like Ogrim,Hornet, Ze'mer and the white lady say things to the knight a hollow being couldn't comprehend. And the collector, a void entity can speak, so the pale king purposely removed the vessels' voices.
As we see many times. Dream essence can take hold on an object When in the eggs the lingering dreams of the siblings granted a mind though not a soul to focus. And yes I think it's obvious the knight isn't hollow.
Canonically, the opposite seems to be implied; every vessel in the Abyss was discarded for _not_ being hollow, and the only vessel thought to be "Pure" managed to end up exactly like its siblings: rotted inside and out, a clear sign of either a mind to think or a will to break.
@@overthinkit_ That works, but only if you consider the vessels to have first been taken out of the abyss, tested, and thrown back in. Instead of simply never leaving.
@@wildfire9280 Wouldn't the vessels that simply _didn't leave_ be the "most hollow," then? Climbing out of the abyss in response to the Pale King's call should imply some semblance of a will. Maybe The Pale King's plan was doomed from the start. The truly "pure" vessels would just sit and rot at the bottom of the abyss while the "impure" vessels would try to crawl up at the sound of their father's voice. It's debatable whether a creature with neither mind nor will would do… anything? Ever?
It's obvious the knight isn't hollow. Hornet was simply looking for a vessel with a strong will to resist the radiance for an extended amount of time. Unless they could destroy the radiance completely.
I highly doubt there was EVER such a thing as a "truly hollow" vessel. Just because vessels lack a voice to cry suffering, that doesn't mean they lack feelings.
By the nature of corrupted vessels and the hollow knight himself, I would argue that they all have *capacity* for thought and emotion. The ones who never gained both were too mechanical and rigid and the ones who gained both got infected. I think the player character only gained intelligence as they straddle the fine line of fluid enough to fight everything and adapt, but not emotional enough for radiance take hold and to contain/defeat radiance.
The only ones who seem strong enough to resist her are the mantises and other higher beings. The Pale King may have believed that being born from 2 higher beings would contribute to the vessels’ strength in resisting her
It's impossible. Not only do you have a god inside you. But the seal around is wearing your body and mind. Eventually allows the radiance to escape. Even hornet can be affected by a seal as she states outside the egg.
I think vessels still would lack mind since dreams born from memories and moths often talk about remember rather than thinking. Vessels are weird because they apparently have memory since they can have dreams, shades description itself reference them as "lingering will" and they got focus from shell but no mind to think. Its confusing since you need mind in order to have memory, will and focus in real life. No will to break line is a little bit problematic since shades described as wills but composed with void and want or desire nothing except being free if we evaluate the void's behaviour in general. No voice to cry suffering is has problems with how you get abyss shriek since probably some impure shades made a ritual of cry of suffering in the abyss. But it has no evidence who is exactly crying suffering from abyss shriek platform dream dialogue but I would pick the shades Nearly all of vessels proving at least half of these lines wrong and it makes picking pure vessel out of thousands of offsprings almost impossible. I couldn't blame pale king for picking wrong vessel. At least last line is always correct no matter which vessel we are examining
The Pale King failed and was either in denial or unaware of THK's idea instilled. He wanted them to have no mind, will and voice. Lack of voice is probably to not get attached even if the theoretical being didn't have a mind, it could vocalize their suffering of instinct, even if not realizing it itself. The Knight is probably operating off some high tier instinct for most of the game, which others might mistake for a mind. Perhaps the instinct of the mission isn't consistent in its calculations of what's neccesar, therefore making choices. After acquiring the Void Heart, however, it certainly has a will. But I'm honestly not confident, maybe they were never Hollow.
I think hollow knight could have done it if it didn't handled poorly in the first place like king accidentally inserted idea on it. Whole operation could have worked someone else took care of hollow knight.
None of the vessels were truly hollow, they all had thoughts to some extent and what allowed the Knight to defeat the Radiance wasn't it being "more hollow" than the Hollow Knight, but unifying the void to act as one against her, which would require a will to execute.
You forgot to mention the sibling entry that calls them a fragment of a lingering will.
And steel soul Jinn says the knight has a will of it's own when you refuse to trade with her.
And Hornet says multiple times that the knight has a choice.
And the white lady questions whether or not the knight hollow once you get the void heart.
And in general, characters that are aware of the nature of the vessels like Ogrim,Hornet, Ze'mer and the white lady say things to the knight a hollow being couldn't comprehend.
And the collector, a void entity can speak, so the pale king purposely removed the vessels' voices.
As we see many times. Dream essence can take hold on an object
When in the eggs the lingering dreams of the siblings granted a mind though not a soul to focus.
And yes I think it's obvious the knight isn't hollow.
You say they can't focus but both the knight and the hollow knight literally do.
Technically all vessels are hollow but if someone forms a bond with them like The Hollow Knight its hollowness is tarnished.
Canonically, the opposite seems to be implied; every vessel in the Abyss was discarded for _not_ being hollow, and the only vessel thought to be "Pure" managed to end up exactly like its siblings: rotted inside and out, a clear sign of either a mind to think or a will to break.
@@overthinkit_ That works, but only if you consider the vessels to have first been taken out of the abyss, tested, and thrown back in. Instead of simply never leaving.
@@wildfire9280 Wouldn't the vessels that simply _didn't leave_ be the "most hollow," then? Climbing out of the abyss in response to the Pale King's call should imply some semblance of a will.
Maybe The Pale King's plan was doomed from the start. The truly "pure" vessels would just sit and rot at the bottom of the abyss while the "impure" vessels would try to crawl up at the sound of their father's voice. It's debatable whether a creature with neither mind nor will would do… anything? Ever?
It's obvious the knight isn't hollow. Hornet was simply looking for a vessel with a strong will to resist the radiance for an extended amount of time. Unless they could destroy the radiance completely.
I highly doubt there was EVER such a thing as a "truly hollow" vessel. Just because vessels lack a voice to cry suffering, that doesn't mean they lack feelings.
By the nature of corrupted vessels and the hollow knight himself, I would argue that they all have *capacity* for thought and emotion. The ones who never gained both were too mechanical and rigid and the ones who gained both got infected. I think the player character only gained intelligence as they straddle the fine line of fluid enough to fight everything and adapt, but not emotional enough for radiance take hold and to contain/defeat radiance.
My question is, couldn't the Pale King instead have made a will to STRONG to break? Can a bug resist the Radiance?
The only ones who seem strong enough to resist her are the mantises and other higher beings. The Pale King may have believed that being born from 2 higher beings would contribute to the vessels’ strength in resisting her
I don’t think anyone could withstand directly holding the radiance inside of them, maybe not even a Higher Being.
It's impossible. Not only do you have a god inside you. But the seal around is wearing your body and mind. Eventually allows the radiance to escape.
Even hornet can be affected by a seal as she states outside the egg.
how did you think all this through ? it’s amazing…
I think vessels still would lack mind since dreams born from memories and moths often talk about remember rather than thinking. Vessels are weird because they apparently have memory since they can have dreams, shades description itself reference them as "lingering will" and they got focus from shell but no mind to think. Its confusing since you need mind in order to have memory, will and focus in real life. No will to break line is a little bit problematic since shades described as wills but composed with void and want or desire nothing except being free if we evaluate the void's behaviour in general. No voice to cry suffering is has problems with how you get abyss shriek since probably some impure shades made a ritual of cry of suffering in the abyss. But it has no evidence who is exactly crying suffering from abyss shriek platform dream dialogue but I would pick the shades
Nearly all of vessels proving at least half of these lines wrong and it makes picking pure vessel out of thousands of offsprings almost impossible. I couldn't blame pale king for picking wrong vessel. At least last line is always correct no matter which vessel we are examining
The Pale King failed and was either in denial or unaware of THK's idea instilled. He wanted them to have no mind, will and voice.
Lack of voice is probably to not get attached even if the theoretical being didn't have a mind, it could vocalize their suffering of instinct, even if not realizing it itself.
The Knight is probably operating off some high tier instinct for most of the game, which others might mistake for a mind. Perhaps the instinct of the mission isn't consistent in its calculations of what's neccesar, therefore making choices. After acquiring the Void Heart, however, it certainly has a will. But I'm honestly not confident, maybe they were never Hollow.
Perhaps none of the vessels are hollow and all are tainted and the pale king thought wrong of them?
I think hollow knight could have done it if it didn't handled poorly in the first place like king accidentally inserted idea on it. Whole operation could have worked someone else took care of hollow knight.
None of the vessels were truly hollow, they all had thoughts to some extent and what allowed the Knight to defeat the Radiance wasn't it being "more hollow" than the Hollow Knight, but unifying the void to act as one against her, which would require a will to execute.
_Pretty_ hollow.